Vortex needs to really do a short concise video on how to properly use the MOA "Christmas Tree" with examples using the actual scope picture. I can't believe that you guys have not done this!! Yes, there's an hour plus video entitled something to that effect but, it does little to explain anything. Some of these hold overs and slope calculations can get complex. You all have spent the money to produce great scopes now explain how to get the absolute most out of them.
The long video you watched was a video recording of a podcast, so it wasn't intended to be a short, concise explanation. We appreciate the feedback and can try to come up with something like this. Where are you having the most difficulty? Are you using a ballistic calculator and then referencing the reticle?
@@VortexOpticsUSA The biggest problem is I only have a 100 yard range here. So when I get out west I have to spend a full day snapping in. Generally I use ballistic data and dial the scope to that yardage, but it would be good to know how use the MOA retical. It could mean the difference between shooting a 300+ Elk or eating your tag. If I had a good range here I could go and experiment with it and figure out all the minute issues on my own.
@@jward9637 You will want to confirm your DOPE when you go out West regardless due to the elevation change. The change in elevation will change your ballistic data. You can get all the information needed to use the reticle or dial adjustments on a ballistic calculator, but that is simply an estimation. The only true way to get the most accurate data for your setup is to get out in the field.
@@VortexOpticsUSA Thanks for confirming what I already knew. I was in the Marines for 6 years on active duty. I know a little bit about sighting in a rifle.
Second focal plain (1:44) is only good in the dimension where you are at it's original zeroing distance and magnification (Usually 100 yards at full magnification) after that you'll need a calculator of sorts because your MOA won't relate to your reticle.
Actually that's incorrect. It is true that SFP has a set magnification at which the size of the image and the subtensions of the reticle are at the same scale (usually the highest magnification, but not always), but once you are at that set magnification, the MOA or MRAD measurements can be used at any distance - regardless of where you are zeroed. That's the whole point! Hope this helps. - Jimmy H jchamilton@vortexoptics.com
Not necessarily - MOA can work perfect for long range if that's what you're used to. The general trend these days is for long range shooters to go to MRAD, so if you want to use what most people are also starting to use then go for it. Otherwise they both are perfectly capable of doing the exact same things - they just do them in different numbers
Moa has worked for me for years with awesome results out to distances of 1,200m. Im here because I'm looking to change it up in the ever evolving world of shooting.
@@thewatcher9778 I'm getting ready to double down on either a vortex razor or a night force atacr. The tremor3 is kind of the deciding factor for me at this point. I'm no stranger to milrad, but I just want to reinforce my decision.
Jimmy.....the one item is that this discussion is correct for FFP or SFP (and the specific magnification)......a minor error you made I think in your commentary
Pretty sure you had a brain fart. You said that SFP (Second Focal Plane) holds true throughout the focal range. That is true for FFP (Front/first Focal Plane), but SFP reticle ranging and holds only work at a specific focal rang, typically the scopes max power. That's why even the US Military (all branches) are switching to FFP, because there is less calculations required to form a shooting solution no matter the focal range.
You may have misheard that part in there. While you are correct that a SFP reticle's features (Other than the center crosshair) can be used to its intended scale on only its calibrated magnification, which is usually the highest magnification, as opposed to the FFP reticle where every feature of the reticle can be used to scale on any magnification, we were referring to the fact that regardless of SFP or FFP, MOA and/or MRAD can be used ay any **Distance**. If you're off by 1 MOA according to your reticle (Whether in an FFP scope or on the calibrated magnification in a SFP scope) at 100 yards, you just need to make a 1 MOA correction. If you're off by 1 MOA according to your reticle at 1000 yards, again, you just need to make a 1 MOA correction. This is in contrast to folks who take the extra time to make linear-to-angular calculations like saying "I'm 1 inch off at 100 yards, so that's 1 MOA." or "I'm 9 inches off at 500 yards so let me try and figure out how many MOA that is..." - All the time taken to figure out that conversion could be saved by simply using the "Ruler" in our scope that tells us how many MOA or MRAD we need to adjust or holdover to make the correction and just trust it. There's really no need to ever worry about linear units of measure down range, unless we are trying to actually get a range on the target, or determine the size of a target. Let us know if you have any questions about that - Jimmy H jchamilton@vortexoptics.com Thanks!
In the 1950s under NATO, the U.S. military standardized to MRAD (miliradians) for marksmen snipers so any scope sold to NATO military must be in MRAD, meaning number of MRAD scopes will always exceed MOA scopes in terms of profitability. Another reason is only MRAD scopes can be sold overseas under WTO regulations. Civilians outside of the U.S.A. and Canada do not use MOA scopes.
@@mitchwaugh3937 Sorry I forgot to take into account all the CommonWealth Nations which also used the U.K. Imperial system. I noticed that countries that used the U.K. Imperial system, MOA scopes are widespread but countries like mine which never adopted Imperial officially, MRAD is more common.
Vortex needs to really do a short concise video on how to properly use the MOA "Christmas Tree" with examples using the actual scope picture. I can't believe that you guys have not done this!! Yes, there's an hour plus video entitled something to that effect but, it does little to explain anything. Some of these hold overs and slope calculations can get complex. You all have spent the money to produce great scopes now explain how to get the absolute most out of them.
The long video you watched was a video recording of a podcast, so it wasn't intended to be a short, concise explanation. We appreciate the feedback and can try to come up with something like this. Where are you having the most difficulty? Are you using a ballistic calculator and then referencing the reticle?
@@VortexOpticsUSA The biggest problem is I only have a 100 yard range here. So when I get out west I have to spend a full day snapping in. Generally I use ballistic data and dial the scope to that yardage, but it would be good to know how use the MOA retical. It could mean the difference between shooting a 300+ Elk or eating your tag. If I had a good range here I could go and experiment with it and figure out all the minute issues on my own.
@@jward9637 You will want to confirm your DOPE when you go out West regardless due to the elevation change. The change in elevation will change your ballistic data. You can get all the information needed to use the reticle or dial adjustments on a ballistic calculator, but that is simply an estimation. The only true way to get the most accurate data for your setup is to get out in the field.
@@VortexOpticsUSA Thanks for confirming what I already knew. I was in the Marines for 6 years on active duty. I know a little bit about sighting in a rifle.
Second focal plain (1:44) is only good in the dimension where you are at it's original zeroing distance and magnification (Usually 100 yards at full magnification) after that you'll need a calculator of sorts because your MOA won't relate to your reticle.
Actually that's incorrect. It is true that SFP has a set magnification at which the size of the image and the subtensions of the reticle are at the same scale (usually the highest magnification, but not always), but once you are at that set magnification, the MOA or MRAD measurements can be used at any distance - regardless of where you are zeroed. That's the whole point! Hope this helps. - Jimmy H jchamilton@vortexoptics.com
soooo no go on moa for long range?
Not necessarily - MOA can work perfect for long range if that's what you're used to. The general trend these days is for long range shooters to go to MRAD, so if you want to use what most people are also starting to use then go for it. Otherwise they both are perfectly capable of doing the exact same things - they just do them in different numbers
Moa has worked for me for years with awesome results out to distances of 1,200m.
Im here because I'm looking to change it up in the ever evolving world of shooting.
@@hunterromano5562 I ended up going mrad for my pst gen 2
@@thewatcher9778 I'm getting ready to double down on either a vortex razor or a night force atacr.
The tremor3 is kind of the deciding factor for me at this point.
I'm no stranger to milrad, but I just want to reinforce my decision.
Is it parallax or is your counter crooked ? :-)
Just a tad bit warped lol still hold stuff though so we'll use it till it falls apart.
Jimmy.....the one item is that this discussion is correct for FFP or SFP (and the specific magnification)......a minor error you made I think in your commentary
Correct! Thanks for pointing that out - It absolutely works for both SFP and FFP.
Vortex Optics Could you make other reticle?
Pretty sure you had a brain fart. You said that SFP (Second Focal Plane) holds true throughout the focal range. That is true for FFP (Front/first Focal Plane), but SFP reticle ranging and holds only work at a specific focal rang, typically the scopes max power. That's why even the US Military (all branches) are switching to FFP, because there is less calculations required to form a shooting solution no matter the focal range.
You may have misheard that part in there. While you are correct that a SFP reticle's features (Other than the center crosshair) can be used to its intended scale on only its calibrated magnification, which is usually the highest magnification, as opposed to the FFP reticle where every feature of the reticle can be used to scale on any magnification, we were referring to the fact that regardless of SFP or FFP, MOA and/or MRAD can be used ay any **Distance**. If you're off by 1 MOA according to your reticle (Whether in an FFP scope or on the calibrated magnification in a SFP scope) at 100 yards, you just need to make a 1 MOA correction. If you're off by 1 MOA according to your reticle at 1000 yards, again, you just need to make a 1 MOA correction. This is in contrast to folks who take the extra time to make linear-to-angular calculations like saying "I'm 1 inch off at 100 yards, so that's 1 MOA." or "I'm 9 inches off at 500 yards so let me try and figure out how many MOA that is..." - All the time taken to figure out that conversion could be saved by simply using the "Ruler" in our scope that tells us how many MOA or MRAD we need to adjust or holdover to make the correction and just trust it. There's really no need to ever worry about linear units of measure down range, unless we are trying to actually get a range on the target, or determine the size of a target. Let us know if you have any questions about that - Jimmy H jchamilton@vortexoptics.com Thanks!
1/10mil : mrad
Why measure in MOA? Because you have to.
Why do you even make MRAD?
In the 1950s under NATO, the U.S. military standardized to MRAD (miliradians) for marksmen snipers so any scope sold to NATO military must be in MRAD, meaning number of MRAD scopes will always exceed MOA scopes in terms of profitability. Another reason is only MRAD scopes can be sold overseas under WTO regulations. Civilians outside of the U.S.A. and Canada do not use MOA scopes.
@@LaquisomI live in Australia, bought an MOA scope the other day, don't know a single shooter that owns an MRAD
@@mitchwaugh3937 Sorry I forgot to take into account all the CommonWealth Nations which also used the U.K. Imperial system. I noticed that countries that used the U.K. Imperial system, MOA scopes are widespread but countries like mine which never adopted Imperial officially, MRAD is more common.
Cause it's better 😌