This stuff changed my mind about MDF projects
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- Опубліковано 14 бер 2023
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I use "super refined" MDF by Plum Creek for painted doors. The edges just need one extra coat of primer and sanding and you're ready for finish color. It's also more dense than normal MDF
I find 90% of your advice to be very useful, but please read the comments about using drywall mud. *NOT* the best suggestion.
@@KeithOlson LOL, should I ignore all the comments in favor of using, then?.. Look, I don't need comments on UA-cam to tell me what works for me and countless other people. I've done it, they've done it, this isn't something new, It works. I am happy that some people are offering other perspectives, and everyone is free to do it however they prefer. But don't tell me something doesn't work when it has worked just fine for decades.
@@StumpyNubs I'm not saying that it doesn't work, just that it isn't the best option to suggest. Here is a comment that I grabbed to make my point:
"The drywall compound thing is from the 1980’s. Many cabinet shops have been using mdf for raised panels since the 1990’s. We use one of two products. BIN white shellac primer sealer or a catalysed solvent based primer. You sand to 240 grit apply two coats of sealer to the cut area one minute apart. You can use a brush. The BIN will soak in like water then harden. You then sand with 240 and prime the whole panel with your normal waterborne/solvent primer. No drywall compound or bondo."
(What sealed it for me was it being used in cabinet shops for production work.)
Here's another explaining *why* drywall mud isn't ideal:
"Drywall compound is not ideal and will cause finish coatings to flash. White shellac seals much better and is alcohol based without the water of drywall mud swelling the fibers. Dries really fast. Sands better. Don’t use drywall mud on cabinets."
Does that help?
@@KeithOlson "What sealed it for me was it being used in cabinet shops for production work..." -There are all sorts of tools and techniques used in commercial shops that aren't as common in small woodworking shops. To imply that something is not good advice because it may not be used in commercial shops is tantamount to saying I shouldn't make a video about hand cutting dovetails because cabinet shops abandoned that practice a century ago. So what if "cabinet shops" do it a different way "for commercial work." Not everything has to be done the same way. The way I highlighted in this video works, and it uses products that most people are familiar with. I never said it was the ONLY way.
Possibly the most clear and articulate presenter on UA-cam
My tip for screwing any kind of fibreboard, chipboard, or strand board is to pour low viscosity superglue (CA) into your pilot hole, making sure to get some all the way around it. It'll soak right into the fibres fast and cure up fast, so put the screw in immediately. This will bind the fibres that the threads cut into & make things far less likely to strip out. Of course you won't ever be able to remove the screw again, but if you're wanting to do that then you should really be using a bolt & an insert instead of a wood screw in the first place, otherwise it will strip out after a couple of times.
Great tip
Interesting tip. Have you done any testing to see if this increases the strength of the connection point at all?
@@stephenrobinson8250 If you mean does it prevent things from tearing apart entirely if too much lateral pressure is added, then not really. All it does is strengthen the fibres around the screw itself & clump them together, so it'll still delaminate or tear apart if it's used to really take any weight, & the difference between a screw & a screw with a load of core stuck to it is negligible. Perhaps it'd make more of a difference with really thick boards where things would need to push through more material before pulling apart.
@@nightcatarts And most folks don't realize that super glue is not, nor ever was, permanent. It breaks down over time. So if you want to add some sort of glue binder... wood glue would last longer and be a superior bond. Just dries slower.
No glue is realistically going to stop the screw from stripping out from overtightening, as when doing it like this the glue is not set yet so it not bonding the fibres together yet. You could theoretically pour glue into the hole, remove the excess with a q-tip, let it set, rebore the hole to the correct size, and then run the screw into the stabilised hole. I did try this as an experiment once using shellac (I used this as dries quickly but doesn't set a q-tip on fire like superglue does) and it works, it is just such a pain in the arse to the point of being useless.
The drywall compound thing is from the 1980’s. Many cabinet shops have been using mdf for raised panels since the 1990’s. We use one of two products. BIN white shellac primer sealer or a catalysed solvent based primer. You sand to 240 grit apply two coats of sealer to the cut area one minute apart. You can use a brush. The BIN will soak in like water then harden. You then sand with 240 and prime the whole panel with your normal waterborne/solvent primer. No drywall compound or bondo.
Bondo works great on MDF scratches and such.
Good tips. Hey Adam, I just made a built in seating area for a kitchen out of paint grade plywood.... what kind of hole filler material would you suggest for the nail holes, also there are a couple places where i need to use a material to finish off plywood edge grain preparatory to priming... I had this stuff called timbermate, but i just ran out... anything from like home depot you could suggest?
As a painter with 10 years experience after completing a classroom apprenticeship, I can verify that BIN or other pigmented shellac is the way to go. When the video prescribed drywall mud, I cringed because that is the last thing I would want to use for this application. Bondo is an excellent product for other applications where you need to build up damage to wood as you would the body of a car. When applied properly, you can nail and screw into it and I used it on my father's house for exterior wood trim and it never failed (the last time I looked at it was after 25 years of the application). The major difficulty with Bondo is that it is often harder than the soft woods you may use it on, and it is very difficult to sand down. For that reason, apply shallow layers waiting enough time for it to get hard, but not letting it cure (I think about 20 minutes is about right); also use a rasp or sharp blade while it is firm but soft to take off bulky waste.
I don't know of a single use that I would recommend for drywall mud other than for use on drywall.
@@mlauntube Try adjusting your hardener ratio and you may have more user friendly results with bondo
@@unclesunbro1577 I'm familiar with Bondo when it is not mixed with a proper ratio. My comments are all in the context of properly mixed Bondo. My comments were in favor of Bondo and I don't think you will find a friendlier result than patching that has lasted for over 25 years.
This video should really be called “MDF 101”. Great comprehensive info
I think you’re probably the best woodworker on UA-cam. Your videos are always packed full of information, brilliantly explained. Thank you.
MDF doesn't just come in a single type. The stuff you get at the large box stores tends to be rather fluffy in the middle and doesn't rout or mill very nicely. It's also much harder to get a mirror finish on it. If you have access to a lumberyard that sells the nicer varieties (things like Glacier Green, Ranger Board, Medite, Arauco double refined, etc) you'll get a better result in my experience.
A lot of the big box stuff is not MDF. Particle board, OSB are not MDF. They are good for some projects but real MDF is a different beast.
@@johnburd3180 All the sheet goods at my local HD & Lowes are clearly labeled. Only MDF is claimed to be MDF. Particle board, MDF, OSB and sheetrock have one thing in common: Get them wet and you will be sorry.
Regular mdf is very porous. The double refined mdf is designed for routing. They started making it for things like routed doors. We use it primarily for raised panels. Once sealed, sanded and painted there is no visible difference between the core and surface.
@@incognitotorpedo42 Water and moisture resistant MDF is more costly but is available and we use them for kitchens. baths, basements or anywhere where moisture is an issue.
Back in the 90’s the waterproof MDF was branded “Medex” and was favored for outdoor routed signs. It is very stable and unaffected by water. It cost double what the regular MDF did and worth every penny.
As a former builder of speaker boxes using mdf I used a biscuit joiner to assemble those and never had problems having to use screws or pilot holes for those. The biscuits also made sure the edges were flush with each panel. My finish for those were a textured paint that easily covered up any "flaws" in the edges and the seams never showed back up later as they aged. Your mileage may vary.
I've been building boxes for a while and it's about to become my main source of income because I make more doing it than my regular job! I saw tests showing that MDF glued to wood actually formed a very very strong bond. I've got to where I prefer using real woods over MDF for enclosures, because it's lighter for shipping and prettier w the wood grain. I saw the research where there was such a tiny difference between the MDF and wood that it didn't matter.
@@johnnycorn7225 Because MDF is denser it will resist vibrating much better than real wood of the same thickness. Do you test your boxes for vibrations and brace accordingly ? Costs for shipping heavier objects does cut into the profits but there are always tradeoffs.
@@davidlong1786 yeah I use dowel rod and triangle bracing with my designs and test them at full power until they can't bounce a quarter around on any of the panels. So many people underestimate the losses of a weak enclosure for sure!! My last customer complained about how heavy his box was and I told him it had to be that way cuz he's running 3K to a single 12 inch a.b godfather
MDF is a great application for biscuits. Domino fan-boys have made biscuits out of fashion, but biscuits have their place :).
@@johnnycorn7225 3K!!!??? he must like annoying people everywhere he goes. I'm guessing he likes the show off factor more than he likes listening to music.
BIN primer does a really nice job sealing the edges too. I’ve made raised panels from mdf and they can be a bear to paint but BIN shellac based primer works better than any other primers I’ve used. Well worth the added cost
Another great video. Thank you. One reason why I have greatly reduced my use of MDF is that I grew tired of dealing with its weight. Also, your comments regarding respiratory protection are spot on. The best thing that one can wear while working with it is a PAPR.
AS ALWAYS, Your tutorials are professional, competent, and complete with all the essential details (often overlooked by others) that help me fully understand the topic and all the related subject matter in a way that I can put it to use immediately. Thank you for all you do....
A trick I learned from a luthier is to use Minwax Wood Hardener. This is a thin resin that soaks in and "hardens" the MDF when dry. This is especially useful when using MDF as router templates. Also, whenever I pre-drill MDF for screws or T-nuts, I soak the holes in this stuff. It really does work a treat. (Don't get it on the surface if you can help it... it can be a bit sticky.)
I love that MDF is so consistent with no gaps or voids and that it’s the same on both sides, unlike all but the most expensive plywood.
I love how machinable mdf is. It accepts a routered edge nicely.
I built a washer and dryer stand with the frame being pine 2x4 and 4x4, topped with 3/4 plywood but I skinned the outside with leftover MDF from another project. I bondoed the seams and painted the same color as my washer/Dryer, loved the way it turned out
Years ago, a guy in my dormitory built MDF speaker cabinets finished with Bondo and and a matte black paint. They were beautiful. What he saved on the cabinets, he spent on the drivers. Made for great sound.
Your videos are extremely good! its really incredible... You point out the dangers or pitfalls so well and clearly. I love it! HIGHT quality information, thanks a million!
I truly appreciate your practical approach to woodworking. This was all useful advice. Thank you.
Burnishing the edges via higher grits or dull sand paper. Also works wonders for preventing how much mdf edges soak up. This is a technique we relied on heavy when making Veneer sandwiched mdf cabinet doors, with a routed edge profile. Its the complete opposite of when you work with maple that your intended to stain, where your opening the pores in the sanding process.
I wish I'd seen this a year ago. Had work done in the house and the builders used mdf for door facings, skirting boards and shelves. Painted them all with undercoat and gloss. Every single edge swelled up, looked terrible and felt rough. I sanded it all and redid it with different more expensive paint and the same happened. After the 3rd attempt led to the same rough finish I decided to spread a thin layer of filler, sand and repaint. Worked a treat but my wife wouldn't believe it wasn't my fault until she decided to add another shelf herself including painting.
Your reviews are incredible. Informative, relevant, interesting, comprehensive, and trusted. And no irrelevant irritating background music either.
I had to fabricate a new base for a pool table I inherited. I chose MDF for most of it, and it has held up nicely. I did a lot of routing edges and laminating pieces for thicker sections. It was mostly glued together, except for screws in a few areas. It came out nice, and has been moved once. It went back together well after the move.
Thank you for all of the tips. I'll do a better job next time.
Making a full video on MDF is a great idea! And, of course, you're just the guy to do it....
I've always found that 2 coats of sanding sealer gives the best results on mdf edges, dries far quicker than the plaster or bondo option and way easier to apply.
Very, very informative. I admire your knowledge of this material and your advice on many aspects of its safety when dealing with particulates in the air, preparation, its effect on tool sharpness and limitations for use. Thanks for sharing. A very efficient and productive use of 6 minutes on UA-cam!
Thank you for another great video and covering tips and tricks along with safety considerations when working with MDF.
My first work bench top was made from MDF. Worked great and held up well with everything that sat on top of it as well as built into it.
MFT tops are made from MDF. They are full of dog holes that work well for clamping.
My current assembly bench has a 3/4" MDF top. I wax it to keep glue from sticking. It's a great surface. I have had no issues with it.
I was taught by an old timer to apply sanding sealer before applying ANYTHING to MDF. It keeps it from soaking up whatever I'm applying. Smooth as glass finish every time!
Out of interest, which sealers have you used? I prefer to seal real wood with water based polyurethane due to the ease of cleanup, lack of solvents, fumes, & not being flammable, but I've not had a lot of luck using it on MDF, perhaps because it takes too long to dry out. Even a small amount tends to swell things up & takes the flatness out of the original surface. Superglue works well but is too expensive for larger areas, so.. shellac?
@@nightcatarts I've had good results with shellac as a sealer on MDF...dries fast and sands easily and can be topped with most anything....
@@KeithMoncrief Cool, thanks. It often seems to come back to shellac but I don't much like working with the stuff, & most of my MDF use has been for unfinished jig type stuff or laminated with wood. Oh well.
@@KeithMoncrief I use shellac or paste wax on MDF when making jigs and stuff for the shop. Sometimes I seal the edges with wood glue. Some jigs are over 30 years old and get a lot of use
@@nightcatarts the shellac (as pointed out by @Stephen Thomas ) is really good as a finish for jigs/fixtures and work surfaces...it hardens the surface of the mdf...makes it more durable and somewhat resistant to glue (especially when topped with paste wax)
I started to use mdf for the bottom of my boxes. It’s clean and looks good and creates a nice think sound. Thanks for the tips on working with MDF I didn’t know about
BIN shellac based primer also fills in the edges or any cut surfaces well. When I use my Shapeoko CNC router on MDF to carve detailed pieces, I prime with the BIN before painting unless a weathered look is desired. Works great.
I really liked the small business plug. Quick, clean and to the point. Always great to watch your work !
74 year Grandmother here enjoying your informative
video. Thank you.
Thanks for watching!
Wonderful, comprehensive rundown on MDF. Thanks for the joint compound tip. I’ve gotten similar results from wood glue applied carefully.
As someone who lives in the South, don't use MDF. I have cabinets made commercially made kitchen cabinets with that stuff and the high humidity turned them into junk. Once you're burned by MDF, you really don't want to revisit the stuff ever again.
I've found that oil based Kilz primer does a great job of sealing mdf edges, and the whole project for that matter. Has some grit that builds up nicely and can be sanded super smooth.
All awesome tips about the dust, thanks for including that. I also tape a MERV 13 filter to the back of a box fan and have that running as an extra cleanup tool for the dust while I'm working (and a bit after).
I do the same thing.
I want to build a filter fan for drywall dust, do you think MERV 13 would be effective?
We used a lot of MDF while building department stores. My tip is to use automotive body filler , it sets up quickly, is easy to sand, and takes a smooth paint job just like the factory surface.
Like Bondo?
Body filler is fantastic for repair work on MDF. For sealing the edges, try BIN primer and you won't go back! It's ready to sand just as fast, sands easier, smells less and best selling point, it doesn't need to be mixed in small batches, then applied before it begins to set. Denatured alcohol reactivates hardened brushes/ rollers..
@@jayty1997 I would use BIN for spraying since it comes in convenient spray bombs, but mixing your own shellac really lets you have mnore control over viscosity. Also easier to clean up shellac without pigment.
@mytuberforyou But this discussion is about priming MDF for paint. I've been mixing my own shellac for over 20 years, but will continue to use BIN with a roller to fill and seal edges and details in MDF. The components in BIN do not gum up like a pure shellac will under the heat of a sander. The roller feeds the BIN into the poors in the MDF far better than spraying will.
@@DrMackSplackem I work in a door and window plant. We use bondo all the time for quick repairs in the paint prep shop. But bondo is useless on certain materials. It will dry too quickly or too slowly when seasonal variations change air temps and humidity. It can have varying consistently which makes sanding tricky. It ages badly once the can is opened.
And it's a dumb option on real wood where you want to show grain.
For MDF edges, I’ve been using an Abatron product-called Liquid Wood-which is a water-thin, 2-part epoxy created to absorb into rotted (“punky”) wood to stabilize and densitfy it. It creates a very solid, dent-averse edge that is waterproof and really tough. Abatron is a great company, too, focused on home restoration products.
I made raised panels for cabinet doors I was making. I used 3/4” MDF. After routering the profile I painted the panels with oil based primer. Sanded and came out very smooth. Painted beautifully. Looks as nice as the maple styles and rails
Interesting about using drywall compound.. I was taught to use oil based paint as a way around the "sponginess" of both MDF and particle board. Agree that it is a material best used for non-moved objects.. but I don't think i heard you mention this.. but MDF tends to have better vertical as opposed to horizontal strength.. Building shelves.. it's very smart to put at least a 1x2 under the front edge of a shelf that has a span longer than 24".. and will be supporting lots of heavy books, for instance. Glad to see someone talk sense about all the issues, though. Great Video!
It's been quite a while since I've dealt with MDF. Last project I did was a sealed subwoofer box with a single 10" in it. Routed the hole in a way where the front flange on the speaker was flush with the front of the box, and glued a piece of stained 1/4 ply to the front. The rest of the box was sprayed with plasti-dip. The dip adhered well and gives it a bit of grip on the trunk carpet.
MDF is by far the best material for building Arcade cabinets. It is fairly inexpensive, great to paint if you prep it correctly and is very stable. Great video.
James, I can always count on you and your channel for quality info. Thank you, again!
I like your opening statement with the mention of mahogany and rosewood. I grow both here on my farm. I do sell it from time to time as I cut a tree but the shipping from here in Hawaii is expensive. The mahogany is "Honduras " or Sweitinia Macrophylla and the rosewood is " Granadillo" or Dalbergia Turcerensis, both great woods to work with.
I tend to use mdf for shob-built tools (router table, lathe stand, etc) on a recommendation from one of the ww magazines in the 90's... Double, triple, or quadruple thick posts for legs, panels and shelves out of single-thicknesses reinforced as necessary by cross members. I've even made a 4" thick hollow shelf filled with sand to dampen vibrations in my lathe mount... Works like a dream.
I really like the idea of using sheet rock mud on MDF to make it more paintable! I'm going to slop some on a piece of MDF and sand it down to see how nice it is when painted. I don't use it for anything more than shop stuff and things like jump boxes for the gym. This seems like it would work better than a bunch of sanding sealer. Cool! Pour yourself a cold one on me, James!
For the edges, I always use PVA glue. Slightly diluted, it will be soaked in the edges and dry medium-hard, the edge will be sealed so you can sand and paint.
I use 1/4" and 1/2" MDF to make router templates, and I've found that soaking the edge all the way around with water-thin CA turns the material rock hard. I have templates that are more than 25 years old and seen a lot of use, and they are still performing as well as the day I made them.
Excellent! Most concise summary of MDF I've ever seen. Thank you!
Thanks for sharing those tips and the make!
Spax, makes a screw for MDF, it's like magic. No pilot hole is needed even on the factory edge. It is truly amazing!
I've had good results with HighPoint Confirmat screws. They're designed for mdf/particle board but they require a special bit for a pilot hole...I'll have to give the spax screws a try....thanks for the tip
I've used those SPAX ones too on a series of built-ins for my daughter. They are excellent, just don't over-drive them.
@@normanbott Never over drive any type of screw!
Was gonna recommend Spax as well but you beat me to it. I've made our kitchen cabinets & living room entertainment center carcasses out of MDF using biscuits, glue and spax screws. They've been used for over 10 years and haven't had any problems with them.
Thank you for the info. What would be recommended on the size ,length etc. .I am using 3/4 inch MDF for shelves and cubicles ? Thank you folks.
MDF looks great when painted and it holds the paint very very well.
I love using MDF for built-in shelves and cabinets that I will paint. Don't love the dust! I always use rabbets and dados with glue for the joints and never have a problem. When I can, I try to do most of the cuts outside.
Since the bed of our CNC at work is MDF, we run a shop air filter (hepa with shop-made pre-filter) which can be linked to other units and controlled with one remote. They hang up on the ceiling and really help get what gets past the dust collector.
If you want to wear a respirator and goggles, get a full facepiece instead, it's way more comfortable. 3M makes a few full facepiece respirators, and one of the other nice things about them is that breathing in refreshes the air in front of your eyes as well, so they don't get muggy like goggles.
@@acmhfmggru It may come down to local environment too. Some places are more or less humid and hotter/colder which is going to affect how much equipment fogs up.
I don’t have a respirator (yet), but an old swimmer’s trick is to put a thin layer of Johnson’s No More Tears shampoo inside goggles. It works great for keeping them from fogging up! The brand is so if it gets in your eyes it won’t bother them.
@@b-radg916 There's anti-fog for divers but I have a sneaking suspicion that it's just dish detergent at 90x the cost.
@@chaos.corner: I think dish detergent would sting a lot more than No More Tears! 😢
@@b-radg916 Hmm. You might be right but I've never tried putting the stuff directly in my eyes...
Wonderful video, thank you for sharing. Everyone stay warm, safe, happy and healthy. From Henrico County Virginia
For sealing I recommend using a marine saturation epoxy. Two coats gives a really nice sandable finish.
I like using MDF for painted floating shelves. Using an oil or solvent based primer rather than water based means no swelling and resulting proudness at joints.
MDF shelving is very prone to sag because it has so little strength. OK for shelves with a few light objects on them and if you use lots of supports, but terrible for many applications. The same is true of MDF's cousin particle board.
@@johnhorner5711 I’ve built shelves 10’ long, no sag. They have support inside, mitered edges. Wasn’t really talking about single sheets.
@@organize1979 Yep! You’re basically-I’m assuming-building torsion boxes, which are quite rigid, MUCH more so than shelves made from a single thickness of MDF; those sag horribly!
I used 1/2" MDF 43/8" strips with outside corner bead moulding applied to create the window/ door trim when I remodeled my home (doors have plint blocks at floor)
Really appreciated you touching on the safety aspect in this video, I usually wear masks when doing anything dusty but sealed goggles is a very good idea.
So time ago, a cabinet shop where I worked took on an outside job reducing MDF sheets into dimensional sizes using our sliding table panel saw. Hours of continuous ripping filled our shop with fine dust despite having a collector. Two blade changes and the dust collection machine completely filled several times were some of the highlights of that fiasco. I can still smell and taste the acrid dust to this day
Thanks for constantly delivering such great content.
Regarding dust, and I agree MDF produces horrible amounts of fine dust, I have made some dust filters from 20" box fans and 20" MERV13 filters taped on to the fan's intake. These catch an amazing amount of dust, and need to be cleaned in a very short amount of time. I have a Shop Fox dust collector and a shop VAC connected to all of my stuff, but as James pointed out before, the dust collectors can emit a lot of fine dust (need to upgrade to the cannister...). I have a coupler of these things I place near my work, and next to the Shop Fox bag. I also wear the P100 dust mask James recommended. After I finish what I am working on, I let the fans run for a while to clear out remaining dust. It made a very noticeable difference. The idea sprang up from my homemade filter I used during the wildfires we had out here in Northern California when the air quality sucked. These are very cheap and easy to make.
I've been working with MDF for years. When nailing or screwing into the end grain and to prevent splitting use a clamp to squeeze the board at the spot the nail or screw is going in. I also use MDF premium which is a lot denser and doesn't require using fillers on the end grain for smooth paint finish. I spray lacquer, and when priming the end grain I turn down the volume of product being sprayed and turn up the air. This helps force paint into the fibers. For patching or repairing MDF, autobody Bondo works the best.
you can also use spray on filler, you have ti do it at least 2 Times. I also use melamin edges that are under 1 mm in thickness and are ready to glue in with a heatiron
My best results for MDF edges is to not sand after cutting. Treat the cut edge off the saw with one to two coats of an acrylic primer undercoat (I use Layland which is made by PPG). Once dry sand lightly with 240 grit and you're done. But like others said all MDF is not created the same so get the best you have available to you for best results.
I always found that the glue and water trick worked well for priming the edges of MDF. I have also had success with slightly wetting the edge then applying gorilla glue.
We make quite a bit of trim from mdf (usually ultralight). Two improvements to what you describe are:
Mdf should only be primed with oil primer. Water primer raises the grain on what was a very smooth face, requiring much more sanding.
Filling the edge with drywall mud or spackle is best done after priming. It’s more steps, but the bond is superior.
Ive recently bought the cubitron orbital hook and loop sandpaper. Its absolutely wonderful. It sands wood many times faster than anything else on the market. I recommend it very much. It will change your sanding time very noticeably.
Excellent video, thank you. As a Heavy user back in the day when I was still on my tools, a note of caution regarding painting. Traditional oil based (alkyd) paints and undercoats should be used with caution. Even though you may initially produce an acceptable gloss finish in the normal way, it will dull over after it's fully dried. We used to flood a couple of coats of exterior PVA glue, slightly thinned, over all surfaces as a primer and then paint as normal. Alternative specialist coatings as now available. Oh and btw, dont let anybody tell you it can be used in exterior environments, even the panels marked as such. It cant, it will fail. Other than that MDF is a very good product.
Really fantastic tips, James! Thanks a bunch! 😃
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
Thank you for all the valuable information You share with us!
I made a coffee table from MDF over 25 years ago that is still going strong. In that time it’s moved nine times (two of them international, one of those by sea), and survived three children who are now all teenagers. I also had a substantial table with full length multi-level hutch that was all MDF that was still going strong too after 13 years and was only scrapped because even dismantled we decided it was simply too big to bring with us overseas. It too had easily handled three domestic moves, and a few repositions, without any trouble. Maybe having worked in an MDF factory gave me an early insight into how to work with it on any project without trouble…but even durable furniture is quite possible with MDF if done right.
Do tell! How did you do it? Not smartass just really curious 🙏🏻🔥⚒️🧙🏼♂️
Yes, please!
I am desperate for some changes around my apartment and fancy nice wood is just not in the budget at this point. I am shooting for as durable as possible at the moment (given my limited budget) and I do not have a metal work shop nearby where I could just go weld stuff out of steel or aluminum. I mainly need to make shelf space. Any hints are appreciated!
@@dragonstonegemironworkscra4740 I feel like dowels are a good way to go with MDF, I'd be interested to see what DL says as well.
The basics of what you need to do were pretty much covered in this video. Basic design was a H base, with router-cut stopped dados in the end pieces. iirc, I did use dowels to attach the base to the top (again, for the reasons given in the video!), and added some discrete small brackets to make sure. The end pieces of the base (seems not right to call a complete block “legs”) were 18mm, the cross-piece and top were 12mm. I wasn’t doing it to prove a point, I just needed a table, I already had all of the materials, and I so I just made a table…and yeah, it lasted. I’m far from being any kind of genius woodworker, so I’m putting its longevity down to the quality of the materials, for sure. I’d do a better neater job of it today, unquestionably…but for my skillset and with my tools, I’d also go for MDF again without hesitation. It’s easy to work with, perfectly safe if you take reasonable precautions (do people really think they’re inhaling none of the dust from a router/saw on natural wood???), no heavier than other timber furniture, affordable but good quality, and can absolutely produce durable works if you take the time to think about the design and construction process before you start (as you should do anyway, regardless of material!).
@@DrTomatoSpaghetti yes, dowels are a great option with MDF. They get the job done. 👍
I've always used watered down pva glue for sealing the edges of mdf when it's dry, simply sand to a glassy finish
Same here mate
I've made lots of shop fixtures and drawers out of MDF. Pocket hole joints. Have had them for years. Have moved them from one shop to another and all my tool stands are on casters so they move all the time. The biggest warning I'd have about using MDF is don't let any part of the panel get wet. Cheers.
Excellent points to remember. Thank you for sharing. Have a great day and stay safe. 🙂🙂
I use loads of MDF here in Ireland for Wall panelling that I paint. I tend to go for Moisture resistant MDF. I use a 2 pack filler alone the cut edges and sand them off. Then I use Zinsser Bulls Eye 123 Primer. Not sure if you can get it in the USA, but it makes the MDF go really hard raising the fibres slightly that you can sand off to a smooth finish. I even make spindle mouldings from MDF and use sponge sanding pads after priming. I get a really smooth and flat painted surface. I love all you vids BTW.
Brad nailer and wood glue works great. Made many subwoofer boxes that way. Use screw inserts for any mounting items that you want to remove later.
All great tips. I tend to use spackle to fill edges and screw countersinks. but I will be sure to give joint compound a try.
Stick with the spackle. Less water absorption and faster dry times.
Bondo (polyester putty) is a great companion to MDF. Watched a guy knock a complex octagon cabinet off the assembly table and bust a corner. He filled it in with Bondo, sanded it smooth, and finished assembly. Once it was painted you couldn't tell the difference.
I regularly acquire 3/4 through 5/4 MDF in "shelf" sized pieces, as cut-offs from an industrial cabinet maker. I absolutely hated the idea at first, but after 20 years, the on-wall cabinets I built as a first-run trial are still strong and tight to the wall, and I'm in the process now of moving them to a new shop. I used a healthy 2-3 coats of mis-mixed paint I got cheap at the time- I didn't even want to take the risk of spending good money for paint for them. I fastened the shell (box frame) together exactly as you showed in the video- coarse drywall screws with a right sized bit and countersink. The center shelf was dadoed into the uprights, glued and screwed after.
MDF in this manner was an EXCELLENT way to hone my cabinet making skills- I got lucky with "free," but another advantage of MDF is that you start out every panel with a laser-straight edge or edges. Like reloading your own
b |_| llets, when you start with a good baseline, you know any error is yours, the tools, and/or the technique. I found this to be SO beneficial!! Great video, I'll try the joint compound trick!
Another helpful video. The only thing I might add is that for years I've been using Confirmat screws to join pieces of MDF. After a pilot hole is drilled with a specialty pilot bit, these screws make the splitting in MDF a lot less likely. Confirmat screws are available in a couple of sizes, and Spax even makes a #6 size that I've used successfully in 1/2" MDF.
Biscuits are a great way to join MDF edges. Water resistant MDF (such as Medex) is way superior to standard and especially lite weight MDF. You still need pilot holes for edge screwing, but it doesn't split nearly as easily either.
Hi Stumpy: Thanks for another very informative video. Great content, explained in simple understandable terms.
good video! we can't avoid mdf in manufactured items but the weight and fracturing should always be kept in mind
I built some cabinets from mdf recently and was pleasantly impressed with the "diluted wood glue" trick for edges ... I first sanded the edges with 120 to remove any saw blade marks , then applied some diluted wood glue with a small roller and wipe away the excess immediately ... After it dries hit it with some 220 and break the edges at this time as they will be solid now ... At that time its ready to go but i did a second coat just for peace of mind ... It turned out as smooth as the faces of the mdf - and i used the cheapest pva glue i could find !!! 😊
Thanks for the good information James. Stay safe . Fred.
I like using confirmat screws for MDF and particle board. Combined with a confirmat drill bit makes using the screw fast and easy.
As a painter we had a rough time with the end grain exposed on a raised panel look on an MDF cabinet door. Just primer paint and sanding wasn't enough to seal the end grain; so when painted with the final coat would usually need more paint. Maybe even two or three coats more. So we learned to first, seal the end grain with flat paint. The end grain soaks the paint in like a sponge. Let dry and then prime the doors. This worked well to seal the end grain so when the enamel final coat was applied the doors would look great. Don't forget to sand.
I use sanding sealer, one coat on the faces and two on edges. Gently de nib before priming then two coats of primer, sanding between each and the top coat will be flat and glassy 👌🏻
We use a lot of it here in the uk. Moisture resistant gives the best flattest paint finish.
Spax torx mdf screws are the goat.
If you use dominoes, be careful with using to much glue where a mortise is at a right angle to an edge. It can split the material. Preferably cut a shallower depth then a deeper one in the adjoining panel.
Thinner (3/8 - 1/2") MDF makes very good small shelves as it's so dimensionally stable; I've long painted edges (both square and rounded) with slightly diluted wood glue as a sealer. Just a quick, light sand after drying, and it's good to go.
Filling the edge with spackle and sealing with primer has been my trick for years. MDF and particle board are great for the right applications, like workbench surface or work tables that I use by screwing my work to the table. After a while I just fill with sawdust/ glue and beltsand. These sheets are inherently flat and smooth.
I like MDF for jigs and other projects that need a lot of dimensional stability but won't see moisture. Also really good for prototyping and sculpture because of the cost and smoothness. I use paste wax on sliding bits.
I have been successful using oil based primer on all edges that will be exposed and painted. Lightly sand when dry and you can paint subsequent coats with water based paint.
I always drip some CA glue into the screw holes to strengthen the MDF internal threads. If I am in a rush, I spray a little accelerator on the surface to get instant hardening of the CA glue.
If you're looking for that smooth surface of MDF for painting, another good alternative is MDO (medium density overlay) or HDO (high density overlay). This is exterior grade fir plywood with one or both outer surfaces coated with a thin layer of MDF or HDF, so it has all the advantages of working with plywood but with that very smooth surface. It's expensive, over $100 a sheet; I buy factory seconds for $15 a sheet that usually have one bad edge but the rest is good.
Thanks Mike. Where do you find the factory seconds from?
My local lumber provider also has a plywood they call J-Core. The center is a traditional multi-layer plywood with the outer faces being a thin MDF layer and it is on the MDF layer where the hardwood veneer is. The advantages are a dead flat sheet because of the MDF, it acts like more expensive void free plywood, and with the traditional plywood center it can hold screws really well.
I have used mdo and it can be a great alternative...was first introduced to it when working at a sign company (they used to use it a lot before pvc sheets became so available) one caution though...sometimes we would have to reject a sheet or two because the wood grain had telegraphed through the paper finish. It's a problem that's hard to fix and, if you don't look carefully, it can be easy to miss until finish is applied.
I have needed to spray paint MDF for some pinball restoration projects, so first treat the MDF with several light coats of sanding sealer using cheap foam brush. Follow up with a light sanding to get a smooth feel and the spray paint. If gotten very good results this way, smooth finishes.
I worked with MDF extensively - read that literally hundreds of tons. Best fastener? Cam locks. MDF is quite strong, and has quite a bit of spring in larger panels, making it quite impact resistant. However, moisture is the arch enemy of the stuff. While it is great in constantly dry settings, it is a disaster if it gets wet.
As much of the stuff I have used, in 16, 25, and especially 19 millimeter thickness, around 99% was covered with a laminate of some type. The smooth face provides a great surface for applying a wide variety of laminates.
I’ve used MDF for many loudspeaker builds and some other cabinets. I’ve found that Miller dowels especially when using veneer over the MDF are a good way to add strength to butt joints and add a little visual bling. I’ve also used comformat screws which are made specifically for MDF and then filled over the heads with bondo. This method was used for creating a “wet look” piano finish on some rather large floor speakers. (They save clamping time)
Besides the dust issue an other thing to be aware about MDF is that it does not hold up to moisture, even when treated with a finish on all sides. So outdoor projects, bathroom vanities, kitchen island tops etc are a “no-go” for MDF.
I use MDF because it is stable, flat inexpensive and reasonably acoustically neutral. It’s also my go to for jigs, sleds and fixtures in the shop. If Baltic Birch didn’t require a second mortgage maybe I’d use MDF less often, but I don’t live in that world.
When I was a teen (mid-70's) I made my first project, a steel stand, out of MDF. By the time I was done I thought it weighed twice as much from all the paint it soaked up! Fortunately I used half round on the edges.
As always, great tips and thanks!
That should be stereo stand, not steel stand. Dang autospell...
you can seal mdf to lower the brittleness. water down some pva glue and apply before priming. they also sell mdf sealer, and it looks like a tung or linseed oil. It adds some strength as well