An "apology" to the KTM 390 ADV (review follow up)
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- Опубліковано 1 кві 2022
- Out of frustration, I ended up being a bit too hard, maybe unfair on the KTM 390 Adv.
For its tagprice, its not a bad bike definitely, and not everyone sees the word "adventure" the same way I do.
This being said, I don't want you guys to think this is a terrible motorcycle that its not worth the money and should be erased from history... i just think its not the kight-weight adventure bike we needed in the wesstern world.
I mean...its not even lightweight to begin with.
This is the original review: • Brutally honest KTM 39...
I stand by my words, but I don't want to be "that guy"... the bike is good, but it doesn't make the cut (according to me, for all its worth).
-Diogo Guerra
#motovlog #advmotorcycles #motorcycle
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As a former owner I could not agree more with your assessment - the positives and the negatives…
Hey there! You can't imagine how happy I am when owners agree with me.... because in the end, your opinions are the ones the reallt matter!
Thanks for watching and commenting!
Don't apologise for having an opinion mate, you based your findings on how YOU see the bike, not how everyone else sees it. I value critical reviews more than positive ones - in this day and age of pay-for-review and influencers it is very hard for consumers to pick the wheat from the chaff. Keep up the great work!
You're missing an update to the ABS system. The bike is now updatable with Off-Road MTC. If you hook it up to the KTM software unit and reboot the ABS computer, it'll have the new Off-Road MTC, which allows a full rear wheel rotation "spin" before cutting in (less aggressively as well). I've ran it in Off-Road mode for 2 weeks in Iceland on the f-roads and it worked amazing.
Personally, as a rookie off-road rider and (pretty) seasoned road rider, I think this bike is amazing, it can do 130+km/h easy when you need to, has great milage to get you far, and with the updated MTC and ABS Off-Road modes you can get through everything that the bigger bikes can as well.
👍
So true... We have a huge gap between the 300L and the 701, something in between would be amazing, I'm sure a lot of people would go for that (me inc). And in Portugal we don't even have a 300L Rally
A fuel injected 6gears version of the drz400 would be really helpfull in europe.
In India also ... Honda sucks ...
@@bonjovi1354 @TP-vision Photo @Máx TroLI @OFFroad-OFFcourse
Couldn't agree more! Lightweight bikes to be manufactured, that are resonable priced, lowtech (extras are optional) and reliable aka proper build quality with long service intervals: KTM 490 Enduro R, KTM 590 Enduro R, KTM 490 and 590 Adventure R. Husqvarna Norden 501 + 601, Husqvarna 501 and 601 Enduro. Yamaha WR350R, WR450R and WR600R (legacy of TT600,TT600R,TT600RE).Lighter and not top heavy : Yamaha Ténéré XT450 T4 , XT550 T5 and XT600 T6. Offroad worthy Honda CRF500L and CRF650L Africa Twin and even more offroad capable Enduro sports versions. Honda concept bike CB125X with 450/500cc and 600 /650cc - a futuristic Paris-Dakar bike for the people. Honda CB125M with 450cc and 600cc as a Supermoto version for the youngsters and a modern traveling enduro with inspiration from Baja1000 , XR400R and XR600R. Update already a winning concept ( King of Dual sports) Suzuki DRZ400S and DR650SE with Suzukis new L-single or Sv650 parallell twin, trailtech, Efi, switchable abs, suspension from RM/RMZ. Just some global sweet spots!
@@dualsportscandinavia353 not india bro ... India is in its beginners stage in off roading .. we have h2r kawasaki will sell all of their motorcycle except dualsport enduro lineups .. it sucks ... We can export .. but with that money I can get a tiger !! Crf1100l in the price of ktm 450s ... It's so stupid
@@bonjovi1354 Strange but at the same time similar situation as in Europe, which since the middle of the 2000s has lacked reliable midsize (500-600cc) dual sports with long service intervals and that are reasonably priced. This is due to illogical emissions rules and the fact that Europe alone is such a very small market compared to Asia, North and South America, Canada, Russia and Australia. It is strange with the "global market" that would be so homogeneous. [Sigh!] Although the countries still have such different laws and conditions.
You said you would do this! And you did! :-) Well done. Yes, this is made for a specific market, against specific competition for riders with specific skills on specific type or roads.
I purchased this bike as a starter bike as I am new rider. I use this bike at my ranch, in Arizona, to herd cattle and the terrain that I have to drive through is very sandy and yet I'm still able to drive up sandy hills, gravel hills, and even through mud. This is a very capable bike and the price is very reasonable for the work I put it through.
Completely agree with you Diogo! 100%. And thank you so much for your kind words! /Rui 🙌🙏
Love your videos man! Funny, honest, experienced! Top!!!
As a guy who has had a 390 adv on order for months I appreciate your honesty, I’m an accomplished on road rider and I hope my skill level makes up for any shortcomings in the Ktm. I’ll be sure to touch base and let you know how I did, thanks!
How did it go?
Hey Diogo! What are your thoughts on the Fantic Caballero 500 Rally? Seems to fit the bill for a small displacement bike that has great suspension and power.
I was excited what motivated you to this update and what we get. Good to see that you keep your opinion and just add other aspects from riders all around the world. Asia is a different and huge market at least. I hear a number that they sell in China the amount of bikes per year in Germany in one day ... If you look to KTM targets, they want to reach a higher global level and left their path of being a European HQ manufacturer. They want to compete with the big Brands now. They could have made a great 390 adv bike but they fail.
I think you hit the review spot on! I was excited when it was first released. After I saw one, I was left wondering when they were going to release the off road version… Maybe an adventure R with spokes and long travel suspension
There is a rumor that KTM is actually working on that. Some footage from testing was leaked a few weeks ago and it kinda seems they might go towards that direction.
@@NickArthfael that would be nice. I love the motor, so smooth and powerful. It’s still somewhat heavy, but it would fill a huge gap with an affordable option
This was very cool for you to put more thoughts on the lil 390 Adventure.
I am getting a very slightly used (66 miles) 2023 Husqvarna 501S FE.
What a great bike that one! When can we see some footage of that on your channel?
@@OFFroadOFFcourse It will be a few weeks. I’ve been helping a Chef friend, since I’m retired now.
I’m going to the rally that Giant Loop puts on in Eastern Oregon in early June. I haven’t decided if I’ll take the 501 or the 890 Adventure S yet.
❤️ this. Took test ride & couldn't agree more with your perspective. Doesn't live up to the expectations in class. Really disappointed. Felt horrible on motorway, horrible vibes in pedals, gear 1&2 just awkward ratio. Brakes were horrible, fan kicked in low speed, throttle reved up randomly on trail, still heavy for a trail, handlebars low. Not a confidence inspiring ride at all.
thank you for looking at it from a different perspective. For professionals and experienced riders this bike is not enough, but for a beginner or an experienced rider that wants something lighter and cheaper than a BMW1200GS or KTM 1290 this is an excellent choice. Fuel economy, tires, maintenance...it all ads up and most people can´t affor big adventure bikes because of it, however, it´s hard to say no to this humble bike. And yes, it´s waaayyyy better than the himalayan and under the right hands or with a few mods, very capable. Obrigado!
Can you look at the KTM 500 exc-f? It’s a dual sport, but with some tweaking, might make a great adventure bike in the weight and size range you are looking for. Loved your first, honest review!
As an owner of the Tuareg 660, I love my 390 Adventure for the reduced weight when riding off-road. Doesn't charge as hard and fast as the 660, but I'm not worried about trying to pickup the 390 off-road throughout the day. Modified for BDR riding of course.
I thought that I was the only guy who bought both an Aprilia Tuareg 660 and a KTM 390 Adventure 🤣 You are 100% correct, the 390 is so much lighter and easier to handle in the more difficult terrain. The Tuareg 660 is by far better for on road and gravel roads, but when the trails turn to single track, the little 390 is like "the engine that could"; it just keeps going and going.
Very fair comments! I bought mine to tour on and I don't do much off road, so for me the bike fully satisfies all my needs. As you say, it depends on what your are looking for nd where you like to ride!!
Hey Randolph, thansk for commenting!
Yeah i think its a lot ot bike for not a lot of money... I only complain cause i am used to KTM really taking the offroad seriously when they create an adv bike. I am glad you found a bike that suits you ^^
Your channel has what I would say is a "Dual Sport" perspective. As a life long Dual Sport rider that's why I subscribe to your channel and respect your opinions. Please don't change that perspective. Shame to hear you have so few dual sports to chose from over there. In Canada we still have the DR650, DRZ400, 690/701's to choose from for decent dual sports. We also have all the performance lines of dual sports but it's hard to justify the cost if fixing all their short comings to make them into great dual sports.
Good to be honest with your self. Keep it that way!
Now, if you merge the two videos, this will be the most complete and unbiased review of the bike, ever!
Really enjoying your videos, thanks! Agree completely, we need more small capacity adventure bikes that can cover bigger road miles comfortably; Himalayan, KTM 390 or CRF is a pretty limited choice and only the KTM has enough power, interesting to hear about it's offroad limitations and that the the buffeting is crazy - the 890 I have is the same!
Agreed as always. Great job.
This video is quite true, I am French but I live in Philippines and if you want to travel KTM or alike is a good option. You need to go via trails, roads with holes small and large and dual sports or trails are not really suited to travel long distances. Therefore something like the KTM allows you to travel even if it is not really offroad as some trails are more than challenging. In many trails you find very steep angles both transversal and slope wise with ruts, holes and rocks. Due to the KTM seat height, I did purchase a Versys x and there are some trails where I just turn back because you are in deep shiet if you fall specially on rocky terrain. Light adventure bikes are a good option in Asia as long as you don't confuse them with offroad.
Thanks for this. I nearly bought the KTM, but as a returning rider building back up from pretty much zero, I put a deposit down on a CRF300l rally. I'm pretty light and not looking to ride very difficult trails, so I think that will be a better platform for me. If the rumored 390 ADV upgrade comes (higher ground clearance, modified suspension, bigger spoked wheels) comes along and makes it more off-roady, maybe that's the next logical step.
Hey man, love your videos but can you make a proper review of the Yamaha XT660R, compare it how it is now to how it was without the mods. I'm thinking of buying one, well I will because its the only motorcycle that is reliable, off road capable and has injection in the EU market (and I bleed blue) so, I just want to know what I will be getting in to :D
Thats actually a good idea... but for some reason I never feel very inspired to do it (maybe because this bike is so "old news" to me?)
I will try to muster the courage to do it, I promise :D
Its a great bike, I can tell you that =)
What we need is a 450 with some 40ish hp, within 130 kg, decent suspensions and 10.000 km service interval. How hard can it be? As for the 390, is a crappy adv bike and I definitely stand by your previous review. It can even be a good allarounder for some markets where the needs are totally different (although if i needed i workhorse I’d by a honda any day of the week)
I guess Euro6 keep realy good Dualsport bikes away. 450 with 40hp is great and the CRF450L fits to that description but not in the legal E6 trim.
@@os3705 it can be but as they can easily pull 100 cv from a 1000 shall not be impossible to get 40 from a 450. The crf450l is not really a great bike (the crf300l is extremely more in target compared) and that’s a pity. In Europe there was, “produced” by Redmoto, the 450xr that was the distributor idea of a strong dual but at 11000+ euros (likely also due to the small nr of units produced) was way too expensive. Let’s keep finger crossed...
CCM GP450
O que eu gostava mesmo era ver-te Diogo a fazer uma revisão da Colove 450 Rally
Hi Diogo, you just have to keep faithful to your path and opinion, you cannot always please all viewers. Keep up with your independent content, that it is highly appreciated! Thanks
I am looking at it because of its light touring capability plus to learn adv biking on but by sticking to easy green laning.
As a first bike having something 40bhp and nimble in twisty bends the most important to me...
Am also looking at the Zontes GK 350 or the Royal Enfields. Similar price range you have the RE inteceptor 650..
I agree with all you said. The big manufacturers allowed for a gap in the market between the civilized 300's and the wild and heavy beasts. But pay attention: the Chinese manufacturers are filling that gap: Voge, Fantic, SWM, etc.
Need more knowledge on this
I totally agree with your evaluation. The market is hungry for a lightweight or a true mid-weight adventure bike and the KTM 390 and the BMW G 310GS disappointed the western market. Many people end up buying a super adventure like the BMW R1250GS because it's only a few pounds heavier than than the mid-weight, and a quality lightweight is not non-existent. There is no true midnight or true lightweight adventure bike. Dropping a 490lbs mid weight adventure or a 550lbs heavyweight adventure is the same, if you're alone your bike suddenly becomes not just useless but a burden and a danger.
I think you nailed it ! I was looking at the dual sports, Honda CRF 300, lack of power and suspension. Suzuki DRZ 400, a very good candidate but carbed and I ride in the mountains a lot. Kawasaki DLX 300, but lacking power. So since I usually ride 40 plus miles of pavement to get to the trails I thought the Adventure 390 would fit the bill. Great on the pavement and good on the trails. Needless to say it handles the pavement, but when they say off road they are referring to dirt roads, two tracks and maybe some easy single tracks. Nothing technical. The bike is light on the road, but heavy on the trails and first gear is too tall for any slow maneuvering or hill climbing. So as far as finding that multi purpose bike that does everything great, it’s not going to happen. Buy two bikes and save the disappointments
I am working on a crf300l review and i am loving the bike. Have you tried it?
Its only a little more powerful than the 250L, but the results are SO different!
Stop riding on pavements dude. Pavements are for pedestrians!
@@northernadventurer160 You are right, but as you can see on the video, there are no actual pedestrians there. I am actually doing this ghost town a service to put it on the map :P
It`s alright, Man. I don`t even take my own opinion seriously.
You are so right. We have being, asking for a better bike. Here in Australia too. Not the 390
And you guys are somewhat lucky, cause up until now you could buy brand new DR650! We stopped selling them back in 2002 (or something like that). Same for the DRZ400.. i think it stopped in 2005/2008. God I miss those bikes designed in the 90s...
Thanks for commenting Justin! :D
You are up to date. They had one DR650 for sale. A month ago. In South Australia. And the DR400. Is stopped soon. (I think?) But I did hear some talk. About putting ABS on it. But I think it needs Euro 5. It seems that's is what's happening here. Keep the super video's coming lol. My mate and myself. Find your sense of humour. Spot on. Thank you, so much.
@@OFFroadOFFcourse Hi Diogo. I thought you may enjoy this video. 🤣 Bye. ua-cam.com/video/HY7W8EaA8ns/v-deo.html
Well you did good and honest .. i own a V-strom 650 xt and i did some singletrack offroad with it (simple track) that's why i looked at the Ktm 390 adv .. i don't know if it will be the bike for me .. since sometimes i ride in couple ..
Completamente de acordo com a tua perspectiva. Vamos esperar pela Himalayan 450 que promete com uns razoáveis 40cv e suspensões de maior recorrido, mas acho que vai ser demasiada pesada para o meu gosto...
Would be great to see a review on BMW GS 310, and specially a non biased (as you usually do and is really helpful) comparison between KTM 390 adv and BMW GS 310. Hope some day you can consider it :)
Noted! I think it would be a very fair and interesing comparison! I will try to find a 310 to test!
Thank you for the idea!
Considering here in Aus, the cost of a 310 GS with the rally raid suspension is about the same as a stock 390 Adventure, it'd be a really interesting comparison. Stock for stock the beamer manages to be 20% cheaper.
@@lachlancannard thats a very valid point..mi will certainly look into that :o
True that! Off course!
Интересно оценить этот вид транспорта с точки зрения влияния его на здоровье, особенно в перспективе. Например, протрузии дисков позвоночника…
In the USA I guess we have more choices, sounds like. However we are always wishing for needed improvements and lower weights, more power better suspension etc. IMO many of the classics would satisfy most people if they would just offer a 6th gear ( KLR, DRZ, DR ) a 30yr complaint!
I couldnt agreee more.
DR650 and DRZ400 with 6th gear and fuel injection would sell like hot cakes... but I think brands are afraid to canabilize their own precious huge ADVs sales...
@@OFFroadOFFcourse yes I think that's it. They want you to trade up for whatever upgrades you desire . The USA automakers are notorious for this ie. General Motors: Chevrolet owner to Cadillac owner aspirational purchase progression. Always looking forward to you're commentaries and reviews!
It's a semantic problem that you have very well explained. Adventure has not the same meaning for you as it has for others.
The bikes now, even 125, have to be big like SUVs. So you see 125s of 140 kg, 400s of 200 kg and so on. Plus the electronic gadgetry.
An Himalayan 400 with 24.5 ponies weights 185 kg dry, my 1997 Honda NTV 650 NTV 187 kg dry but with 54 ponies, the Honda with cardan is known to be particularly sturdy, 160.000 km are common. That shows there is a serious problem about weight...That would mean if I put off road suspensions and wheels on my old utilitarian Honda I'll have an ADV...I laugh.
The most tiring of that inflation of size and weight accompanied of lesser performances is that 30 years ago you had some 600 cc between 125 and 150 kg, 400cc of 120 kg with real off-road capacity. I do not see any advantage of the Himalayan in front of a 1991 Suzuki DR 350 which with slight rather easy modifications can do all that the Himalayan already do on road with far better off-road abilities.
And worst, for 7000-7500 € retail price, a 450 cc, 40 HP, 130 kg, 250 mm suspensions could be easily made, an all around adventure bike, or better said dual sports. The Chinese have bikes very close to this concept at 3500 € start China.
The enough good engine exists and works rather well, it's the 450 4 valves, liquid cooled, 40 Hp at 7500 RPM, Euro5 Zongshen used on the chinese-italian Fantic Caballero 500 Rally which is finally more interesting that the KTM with spoke weels, 150 kg, 200 mm suspensions, well equipped for 7300 €, made in Italy.
You should try this bike maybe it's a good basis.
@@gbner9991 The Caballero Rally as said one of my acquaintances who has tried it, is already better than the other mid sized scramblers. The engine is round and does the job. On those mid sized 40 HP is largely enough if you keep a decent weight around 125-130 kg. I had a Honda XR 600R of 46 HP 120 kg the problem was the inertia of the big piston. In fact I took for a raid bike a 400 XR, kited to 440 38 HP as the engine was easier thus better in technical passages. Globally, at least for trails in mountain, the 440 was far more efficient, not tiring at all so 350 km of road at good pace was not a problem. I think that a 450 is the good compromise.
In adventure off road you want an easy engine with plenty of torque everywhere from idle to the max RPM and reactive at the accelerator so you can lighten the front wheel as needed.
totally agree with your POV, i hope KTM improve seriously this type of bikes because it's the one i'm very interested in...i'm sick of these heavy, expensive and "fake" dual sport bikes (fake unless you're a pro rider like Birch &co of course).
i like the 300L but it's severely underpowered if you're going to use it on asphalt roads...hope the brands will pay more attention to this target!
@Fabius998
What bike/s do you ride?
KTM 490 Enduro, KTM 490 Adventure R, Husqvarna Norden 501 and Gas Gas ES700 Enduro is coming....2022/2023
I wouldn't say it's severely underpowered. I did a long travel on a 250cc, ~9000km in one trip, and it was fine. I definitely didn't feel like it's not enough, it can easily cruise at 110, and do the overtakes, if you downshift to 5th it would reach 135kmh pretty quickly, the bike was Kawasaki z250sl.
Does the European market not have any 450 class dualsports? Eg 450l, fe501, ktm exc's, beta rrs. Or are you discounting them as enduro bikes? Does Europe have the versys300x?
We have most of those "Performance dual-sports" but they are more of a enduro dirt-bike than a propper "Dual Sport" (in my opinion). They can't take a passenger, maintenance is way too often, you dont really want to ride them on the road, etc etc.
We have the versys but honestly I never seen any "live." I have the feeling it would be +- the same type of bike as the 390 adv, no?
I think what we (or I? ) really want is a modern DR650 and DRZ400...with 6 gears, fuel injection, etc...
While waiting for Japanese 500cc-700cc dual sports / ultra lightweight adv alternatives, we can either do as many cool dual sports channels i.g Offroad offcourse and more, modify the hell out of 400cc-700cc dual sport models available on the market. The second newest alternatives with efi are Husqvarna 701 Enduro, KTM 690 Enduro and Yamaha XT660R.
Then there are even older dual sports like the Honda XL600R, NX650 Dominator, Fmx650, XR400R, XR600R, XR650R, DRZ400S, DR650, Yamaha TT600, TT600R, TT600RE, XT600E. Or make further compromises and look at plated enduros like the Husqvarna Fe501, KTM 450 / 500Exc. KTM 525 Xc. KTM 625/640. Husaberg 450/501/510/550/570/650. Honda CRF450HM and so forth.
Is that the Duke with longer suspension? I really think it is a great commuter.
That but at the end regarding the lack of dual sport choice is 100% correct, I also test ride the 390 and didn’t like it.
Muy honesto en la reseña anterior y en esta. Creo que tienes toda la razón en lo que cuentas de esta "duke" maquillada. Un saludo.
We have a KTM 250 ADV as well here in India and for Indian terrain that is very well equipped as a tourer and we call it a "softroader" rather than an off-roader and that is pretty much the same with the KTM 390 ADV
"Softroader"... i think i like that definition :o
You know , in the end its all about words and defininitons... the reason why I am so hard on "adventure bikes" its because there is no official definiton for what an adventure bike is... and the term "dual sport" doesnt even exist since the DR350/650... so nowadays the concept of adventure bike is too broad to please everyone :o
@@OFFroadOFFcourse , I do agree with you though 100% because again here in India we are getting a lot of pseudo ADVs in the entry level segment. Just want Honda to launch the 300 Rally and I'd be more than happy to pick it up eyes closed
@@sohammhatre do you guys have the Voge 300 Rally?
@@OFFroadOFFcourse no we don't
obrigado pelo Review, sim penso que no mercado na minha opinião exista uma falta de variedade como nos anos anteriores, ou seja existe as "grandes" e pouco mais que isto que grande parte da maioria faz estrada com sorte um estradão para não estragar nada, enquanto tempos mais antigos havia uma bela escolha desde 125, 250, 350, 450 etc como se diz ao gosto do freguês mas acima de tudo existia opção para quem começava e depois pertendia evoluir para outra ou não, mas claro isto é só a minha opinião o que possa não estar correta. abraços e boa continuação.
I just purchased a 2023 model in the U.S. Honestly, for a USA rider riding dirt their whole lives. I feel that this was a spot on transition street bike for myself. I wanted a 300L, couldn’t find one, have waiting lists right now also so it pushed me KTM. Honestly, the 300L and 450 RL would be for the Off road person who wants to do some riding on the street. The Adventure 390 would be for a commuter who goes off road/service roads occasionally. Want to tear off road then just go dirt bike
Yeah I have to agree... it is a very good small adventure bike that lets "the commuter" do some off-road...thing is, here in Europe we dont have any propper dual sports since the early 2000's (you guys still have XRs, DRs, KLRs, KLXs, etc etc), so when we heard they were releasing a 390 Adv we thought it could be "it"... hence our/mine disapointment.
@@OFFroadOFFcourse KTM has always been kind of clear that the "Adventure" models were mostly road-oriented bikes with some off-road capabilities. The Adventure "R" models have always been more off-road focused than the Adventure (non-R) models. To an even more extreme KTM also had the Adventure R Rally version of the KTM 890. But they aren't the only ones who put more focus on road use under the "Adventure" label. Look at Michelin with the Anakee Adventure tire. It isn't a 30/70 on/off-road tire. It is a 70/30 mostly road-oriented tire. I think "Adventure" to often gets lumped in with Dual Sport and Enduro when they are really primarily road/travel segment bikes with some off-road capabilities. I think people had too much expectation for the 390 Adventure when it was announced, but it was never an Adventure R or Adventure R Rally model. It is primarily a street/travel bike.
@@seandonnelly205 i cant disagree with your logic man... its all there :o
Could you please review VOGE 650 DSX? I am really looking forward to hear comments about that bike.
I was about to review it this week! But then i learned that the bike could be "expanded" to almost 70hp and i decided to wait until i can test that unlocked version :o
I live in Colorado and I started riding on tarmac two years ago, but now I am itching to go off-road (it's Colorado after all). Every time I see an adventure bike, they are either too road-oriented, or too heavy for off-road. Because of that I started looking at dual sports motorcycles. I have my eyes on the DR650 but the carburetor gives me pause.
I agree with some of the comments. "Adventure bikes" today actually mean "road tourer that can traverse the level dirt road to the campsite" and it's disappointing. 😔
Amen brother :D
Carbs are not that bad... if you manage to score a well maintained DR650 you should have no problems for years to come! What about a KTM690R? Too expensive?
@@OFFroadOFFcourse for a newbie like me, yes. It's too much bike for me at this point. I need more practice on something that when I inevitably drop I won't cry.
Hey Ricardo, just for the sake of argument, I think that even something like a DR 650 would be too heavy for what you might get into there in Colorado. Let me explain myself. At one time I purchased a similar dual sport, a Yamaha XT 600. It did great going up the mountains here in SOCAL. But what goes up must come down. What a pain to control the weight of that bike with the weight transfer to the front tire going back down. The same down hill section would have been made much easier on my lighter Kawasaki KDX 200 for sure. I'm currently looking for another dual sport myself. I'm seriously considering a Suzuki DRZ 400. Maybe it is a good power to weight choice that could get me into and out of most adventures might find myself. Or maybe a KLX 300, IDK 😄
@@noelbrown6771 I thought about your options as well, but I want to ride to the trails, and from the outskirts of the front range where I live to the nice trails in the mountains, I will need something that can cope with some highway riding. If I get the DR650, I already know that suspension work will be needed (edging on 200lbs without gear) so it may still be a good choice after that. Does it sound like something rational? At this point I am nearing paralysis by analysis.
@@ricardofabia I think that no matter which bike any of us choose, it will require adapting to that bikes capabilities and keeping it fun. If I ran across an upgraded DR 650, I'd have to give it serious consideration. Good luck Ricardo, hope you have a great riding season 👍
We off road tourists have to remember we are a small minority. I did the Portuguese TET and ACT last year. I saw one other bike, a Portuguese lad on a GS on the ACT. No one on the TET, so maybe it isn't so surprising manufacturers aren't that bothered about us. I'm happy with my 701 with a Nomad screen. She is my unicorn but could I have a 120kg 450 with a big sump and a big fuel tank and 8,000 km oil changes. I'd love it. But would I buy one or stick with the Husqvarna? Probably stick with the 701, so how many 450 unicorn 120kg units would sell? How many people would open their wallets? And would the bike fit anyone under 182 cm? Knocking out most female riders and shorter men? We are a tiny market.
I agree with needing smaller, I've got an old crf250l but it needs "more" like cargo & fuel range capabilities & got the Himalayan but it's very underpowered for steep climbs due to weight & don't handle high speed roads well on accent goes downhill just fine for what it is
How tall are you?if you're 5 ft 2 and the wind is hitting your shoulders that is indeed cause for concern,but if you're 6,2 not so much,would have been good to possibly mention your height,good video though, I'm still keen
Hey big fan man, love from India...
Hey Rakhi! Thanks for the words :) and for watching!
Good explanation. I thought you were way to hard on the bike in the first review. It's really a great bike from what I understand.
Hey David! Its a good bike, but not a very complete adventure bike in my opinion (but please understand that to me, adventure is 70% off road focus and 30% road use).
I expected more off road worthiness from a KTM adv bike, thats all :)
@@OFFroadOFFcourse I hear you. For me 70 percent road 30 percent adventure. It's $1000 less than a CRF300L in Canada. I can see the attraction.
I had a CB500X and I agree 100% with your assesment. No DR650 in Europe ?
We dont have "DRs" since ~2005. Each day we stray further from god xD
👏
Apology? Meh! Let's just say it's more 'adventure' than the CB500X and is a lot cheaper. If only it had Japanese reliability...and another cylinder 😉
I agree :D i dont have a lot of experience with the cb500x, but i do believe the 390 will be slightly better offroad..at least its not intimidating at all.
If it only had +4 or 5cm of travel suspension it would be awesome
Excellent review addendum.
Thanks man! I felt that i was a bit too unfair on the first one ^^
@@OFFroadOFFcourse In any case, in this current situation where you can't test ride anything from the dealer, you end up relying on marketing claims and overly nice 2 hours ride reviews + fanboy reviews. There is a general lack of healthy criticism lying around. I was really considering the 390 but now I see things differently. Sure, you can always re-sell a bike, but throwing 10K on something you want to git rid of after a few months is retarded. Slapping a Turbo sticker on a car does not make it turbo. When you make the ADV claims on a bike, you must be held accountable. Again, thanks for this very enlightening review.
I liked your pre-apology video much better than this one. I felt you were being honest by not waving a "brand loyalist" flag. Judging by the price of most KTM's, I'd say they have a strong fanbase. Maybe you were talking to them in this video. I did find some videos talking about the common problems of the KTM 390, so I'm sticking with the reliability of my 650 Vstrom (20,000 miles} for sure. I also think leaving the KLX 300 or the DRZ 400 out of the discussion as you frontline the Honda 300L is a mistake. Rumor is both bikes are better than the Honda.
Any way thanks for sticking to your guns on the off-road flaws of the KTM. UA-cam has been a great tool for making the best purchase for me. I will never be a brand loyalist, continent loyalist, or a "culture crowd" loyalist when it comes to my hard-earned money. I do see your OFF-road focus is what I like so I am now a subsciber to your channel.
Hey man, awesome comment, thank you! Regarding the CRF300L, i like it, but there is a lot of room for improvement. The DRZ400 has a much more satisfying power and stock suspensions (but its way worse on road, cause theres no 6th gear and it vibrates a lot), the KLX300 has a problem...they dont sell it in europe :P And although it has better suspensions and just a hint more power than the CRF, its also a bit worse on the road due to the slightly more viby engine.
Crf 450 - just change oil often. For the learner the crf 250/300 is pretty perfect, I think.
Soo true it lacks lots of power for an adventure bike
I've not ridden or even sat on one but with an existing seat height of 33.6", I think it would be too tall for me (being 5'7") if they made it more off-road capable, by fitting a 21" front wheel and suspension with at least another 2/3 inches of travel?
... then the seat would be even higher.
Go ahead and sit on one. The seat is narrow and the center of gravity is pretty low.
... and it's so light. It fills you with confidence.
Well, at least it doesn't sap all of your confidence out of you.
;)
S
@@sdefiel3719 Will give it a try, thanks.
I'm very interested about this bike, even though I'm not living in Asia. This bike seems to divide opinions. See MAD aussie review and it ends up in totally different outcome. And then again Fortnine bashed poor KTM 390 badly. Go figure. For me this looks very good option for motocamping and touring on gravel and backroads. My skills are not good enough for technical offroading. I have CRF250L and it's surprisingly good but it has it's faults, like small fuel capacity and it's not fun to ride on longer highway stretches. The first review left me a little bit puzzled, thanks for giving another, recalibrated opinion.
What about the G310GS? How would it hold up as an adventure bike in your view?
Hello Sam! I never tested the G310. I've heard good things about it, but I also heard good things about the 390 and in the end I didnt like it that much :o
If I had to guess, I'd say they will be pretty similar ...but thats just a guess :o
Have you ever tried any of these?
@@OFFroadOFFcourse yes I tried the G310GS and I loved it’s ergonomics. The riding triangle was perfect for me, from an adventure touring perspective. The power delivery was average and linear. But one negative here for BMW India is that its service and parts are at least 2-3 times more expensive than KTM. I plan to try out the KTM 390 ADV soon
My view of adventure bikes is pretty much the same as yours. You want a bike that is reasonably capable on road to enable you to get to the good stuff… the off road. It needs to have enough off road capability to allow you do almost anything a dirt bike can do albeit more slowly. There are very few bikes that can do this properly. Only three come to mind. The KTM 690, Suzuki DR 650, and the Honda CRF 300 Rally. I own a DR 650 with quite a few mods and it is very capable but if I could be in charge of developing the “perfect” bike for this class it would be very similar to a 300 rally but have a 40hp 450cc engine similar to the 300 engine not the CRF450L engine. I would also want higher end suspension components. It would need to be no more than 10lbs heavier than the 300 and only cost $1000 more. IMO this would be the be an almost perfect adventure bike but for now I can happily make due with my modded DR650.
Check MVDBR enduro... it is an adventure bike for sure.
Here's the thing. I think KTM made a mistake with the name. They should have called it the 390 Urban or something like that, not the 390 Adventure. It makes an excellent all round urban commuter bike but it's just not setup to be a real adventure bike. This is a Duke with an urban restyling makeover.
I completely agree. If it wasnt called adventure i wouldnt judged it so hard. But i have to admit that i could be wrong because to a lot of people "adventure" means 80% paved roads and 20% gravel roads where you could drive on a prius :)
I struggled choosing between the KTM390 Adv and the Honda CRF 300L. I know that the CRF 300L would be better off road but it would get run over on the highway trying to get to the dirt here where I live. Yes the KTM 390 is more road focused. But it seems all of the bikes like this are a big compromise one way or the other. Need like a Honda CRF 400L with like 35ish HP.
If you can, do a review about the CRF 250/300 Rally :)
Unfortunately we dont have the crf300 rally in Portugal. Did you see my crf250L review.
@@OFFroadOFFcourse Ah well. There is not really that much difference to be honest, just more wind protection and LED lights. Also it looks really good hehe
Diogo, blink three times quickly in the next video if KTM invited you for a coffee in the court 😋
Adventure bikes are street bikes that can go off road...Dual Sport are off road bikes that can go on road.. you are actually correct in your first review. No apology necessary...
Thanks for commenting wayne! However, i cant agree 100% with that definition.
First, because there is no official definition. These is pure "marketing words/concepts" that have never been defined. 2nd, because for instance the concept of the typical dual-sport in the USA is a KTM EXC500, in europe is for instance a DR650 (very different), and third, because adventure bikes a few years ago were very very offroad capable/ready (africa twin 750, ktm 950/990 for instance) and nowadays they are way way more comfort and touring oriented (most of them).
And last but not least.. besides a few suzuki DRs, the word "dual-sport" doesnt even exist in any sticker on any other bikes.
We (the public) created our own notions of what Adventure/dualsport is.
What i mean by all this, is that no one is right, and no one is wrong xD
In Vietnam this would be a great bike for touring mostly very poor quality sealed roads.
Have you seen specs on the GPX 450 Rally (Colove 450 Rally)? Hopefully it fills the niche the more experienced off road riders occupy :-)
I'd love to try it! I hope it gets to europe eventually =)
@@OFFroadOFFcourse It's slated for a UK release later this year under the GPX brand. Hopefully it all goes to plan and they're as promised for a reasonable price!
Just get the 300L and upgrade the suspension. Way more bike for your buck
You have to look at this bike for what it is, not what it isn't. Compare it to the Honda 300 Rally dual sport, It's good on the trails and mediocre at best on the highways. The 390 is better on the highway and can still do pretty well offroad too. Both bikes are budget friendly ways to get out there and have fun before deciding if spending 15k for a ktm 890 or a Huskey 701 is for you.
I totally agree with you...the 390 is a great budget bike. The thing is... I created an expectation. KTM has been releasing "adventure" bikes (with the word "Adventure" written on the side) since 2002, and all of them were AWESOME offroaders when compared with other bikes in its class...so, when KTM announced a 390 Adventure i assumed it would be an awesome 40hp/170kg offroader bike (i did not expect an enduro bike, but i did expect a dual-sport of sorts)... and i got disapointed in that sense. thats all :)
I’m utterly fascinated. *You say we don’t need this in Europe, but we do!*
What else can do a typical “day out” 50km of roads, 60km trails and 50km tarmac home?
The CRF 300 you suggest has pitifully soft suspension.. you know it’s hopeless on trails with a typical 90kg rider !!
Oh and with 27HP, the CRF 300L isn’t going to be enough for either the tarmac or dirt!
(Sir, respectfully, I suggest the Kove 450 is the bike we need…. But that’s not for sale yet in Portugal.
*So I’m buying the 390 Adventure with spoke wheels*
Please advise me if I’ve missed anything?
Totally agree with you. This bike is not designed for adventure. I tried it three times in about one year and still the same deception. Standing position is awfull, engine is OK only at high revs, there no wind protection.
So then, I slightly prejudged this title and was ready to get my panties in a bunch. I also don't like the 390 ADV and wrongly assumed you were going to apologise and take it all back. In retrospect I feel you reaffirmed your opinion and position on it but maybe made the people that love it feel better. I was damning of it in my review/first impressions and didn't think to make all the haters love me again.
Good work on that mate, you've played a blinder there. 👊
Also, the Fantic Casa 250 is a better bike than both the 390 ADV and the CRF 250/300L. The CB500X is far better on road than the 390 ADV too. 😉
Ahaha, thanks for the comment man :D
A lot of people are assuming I did this video because of bad feedback, but actually no! I got like 98% approval, i can definitely live with that xD
I was the one that didnt feel well about being so nasty with the bike... overall it is a good bike, averagely priced for what it offers, and bla bla bla... I keep forgetting that have the world has the offroad access restricted and that what they really want is "adventurized" touring bikes...in that sense, one can critize but cant be too negative... i. I want people to trusst my opinions, and not thing of me as a person who only sees the world from 1 perspective :D
@@OFFroadOFFcourse that's very honourable of you to take the time to make this video. I think I might steal this idea and make one too! Now to find someone with a 390 that will let me borrow it.
Keep up the good work mate, I enjoy your unique style. 👊
TT
Love ya Diogo but there was no need to apologize. It is not your fault that manufacturers have so bastardized the definition of 'adventure' that people now think a capable touring bike is an adventure bike. ANY bike can do fire lanes and country lanes. An 'adventure' bike should have the capability trails and light single tracks. The 390 does not.
I'm working on it! I promise!! :D
Nah. If you’re going on an adventure, it’s about pushing your boundaries. Example: c90 adventures- he’s taken a C90 across the world, certainly past what Honda designed it for. A lady also grabbed a stock CB500X, (the old 17” front wheel version) lowered it, as she was a shorty, and did a RTW trip on it, even going through Mongolia. It’s called going on an ADVENTURE. wherever and however it is. Elspeth Beard was the first woman to go around the globe. Did it on a R60/6, hit countless hurdles, and made it. You should read her book. She didn’t do much light trails and single track, but she bloody well went on an adventure.
@@martyn_g I agree with your perspective. It is the bastardization of the definition of "Adventure" to mean "Dual Sport," which the 390 Adventure is definitely not, that I think often leads to disappointment. Can you go on an adventure with the 390 Adventure? Sure you can. People have gone on amazing adventures on far less capable bikes than the 390 Adventure. Can you use it as a "Dual Sport" bike? I don't think you will enjoy it near as much for that purpose. But as a buddy of mine is fond of saying, you can have an adventure on any bike and it begins by turning the key.
hey hang on ,,, if your a seasoned rider you will like me have the ability to see the limits of a motorcycle and test it to that , i find the bike is very capable to do what i need , but its not the only bike in my shed , as i have others to do different jobs . good work . cheers steve/Australia
Yeah you have a point!... but KTM knows how to make proper adventure bikes (by proper I mean truly capable of offroad performance) so it bothered me that they made the 390 this way. It just feels like a foul marketing illusion... raise a duke a little, strap on a tower, call it "adventure" and wait for the money to pour in.
This isnot the KTM way we all know and love :P
Fair 💙💛🏁🤛🏼
80% rider 20% bike
You describe dual sport riding not adventure touring
The Indian version doesn't have the adjustable suspension.
Surprised no one mentioned the 690/701 is actually LIGHTER than the 390... With twice the HP and twice the suspension....
Hey Kevin! The reason for that is that they are not in the same category (for the reasons you mentioned). Those who are considering getting a 390adv (or a crf300 or an himalayan, etc etc) are usually not the samei ones considering a 690/701 or any of the bigger advs.
Its like mentioning a F16 fighter jet on a Cessna review :p
@@OFFroadOFFcourse still, sounds to me like you say you were excited for the 390 to fill the gap being bigger than 300L but considerably smaller than 690... It's shorter but has larger mass... It makes me think of the 390 in a similar manner as I see a Harley Sportster... As the heaviest tiny bike in production! 😆
@@OFFroadOFFcourse you might be interested in checking out Jimmy's round 2 review, where he identifies the issues he had with bike and the solutions they decided on, basically reviewing the POTENTIAL of the 390.... He is one of the most valued opinions here in the states and the two of you actually come to near identical opinion of the ideal rider for the 390.... ua-cam.com/video/cfz0XdVqzXY/v-deo.html
@@kevinwalker7302 i will certainly watch that video! Thank you Kevin!
My biggest complaint about the 390 is not that the bike os overall terrible... Its more that considering it is supposed to be "begginers adventure bike", i didnt feel it was easy at all to ride offroad... All that it has going on for it its the light weight, which isnt even that light xD
A crf300l for instance almost rides by itself and anyone will feel like Graham Jarvis after 10min on it :D
Like Hazcat said, it's not a adventure bike. Needs offroading capability.
I don’t think Europeans are tired of big ADV bikes. They just keep making them bigger and heavier, and they continue to sell better than any other and for higher price and profit margins. Cheers from Costa Rica.
lol. Now you have to 'apologize' to AJP, since you like bikes that will take you on the road to get to your off-road adventure. You're correct that more choices are needed for light weight adventure bikes, not just in Europe, but everywhere. Unicorn bikes.
I miss the dual-sports of the 90s...all of them were good... DR650, DRZ400, DR350, XR400,XR650, NX650, XT600, TT600, TTR250...even the NX250 was a great bike.... did they lose the mold? :D
@@OFFroadOFFcourse well the big three still make their old 650s in XL/DR/KLR So the molds are good lol. But maybe not all available in Europe, but then y’all have other goodies, and better food. Happy trails
@SteveH @OFFroad-OFFcourse
A futuristic Paris-Dakar Honda concept bike CB125X with 450/500cc and 600/650cc engines. Ultra lightweight and offroad capable Honda CRF500L and CRF650L Africa Twin and enduro sports versions. Honda CB125M with 450/500cc and 600/650cc as a modern Honda XR400R/XR600R/XR650R. Lightweight and not top heavy Yamaha Ténéré 450 T4, 500 T5 and 600 T6. Kawasaki KLX 500 and 700. Suzuki DRZ400 and 650 with efi, switchable abs on the rear, trailtech, Led lights, RM/RMZ suspension and decent tires. That would be something!
GPX 450 Rally ....price estimated between $7200-8800..
ua-cam.com/video/5gy764dj0aw/v-deo.html
Fantic XEF 450 Rally ....starting price close to 15,000 euros.....
ua-cam.com/video/NWof0vMCa50/v-deo.html
Gas Gas Es 700 Enduro ..release this summer.....?
www.advpulse.com/adv-news/gasgas-to-launch-two-new-700cc-street-legal-models-for-2022/
CCM GP600
adventure-attack.com/news/75-ccm-working-on-600cc-replacement-for-the-gp450
SVM 650 Superdual T (Husqvarna 610)
www.motorcyclenews.com/bike-reviews/swm/superdual-x/2019/
KTM 490 Enduro and Adventure (R?) delayed to ...2023?
www.advpulse.com/adv-news/ktm-490-adventure-coming/
The hope for a reliable and lightweight adventure and dual-sport bikes may be due to Kayo, which was formed by a former Honda engineer. Their 2 and 4 strokes dirt- enduro models seem promising. Although I have not found out if Kayo's bikes are legal
www.ridekayo.com/kayo-history
I agree KTM missed a chance with the 390 adventure for Europe. I think if they had fitted longer travel suspension, lower seat hight , engine lower down torque, ( thumper)fuel tank bellow the seat. Oh hang on the price has just shot up. I think there’s a limit from duke to adventure an trying to keep the cost down, but would Europeans be willing to pay that extra cost for a CRF slayer !!
So basically you’re confirming that adventure bikes are not dual sport bikes. Totally agree though the 390adv is junk just like the GS310. DR650’s for everyone!!
To be honest I don't know what to say avbout dual-sport Vs adventure bikes... Brands call their bikes whatever they want and its up to us to buy and test them... i hate that. Triumph calls their adv models "Rally pro",for instance.
I could accept that they start calling "adventure bike" to any touring bike that can have a go on a dirt road, but then they would definitely need to bring the label "dual-sport" back... or come up with something new like "Explorer" or "Nomad" or whatever.
I think its stupid to put all dual-purpose bikes under the "Adventure" name... you dont se that on the "R" models... a Honda CBF600 is not at all in the same category as a Yamaha R6... yet we have the KTM 990 Adventure on the same category as the KTM 390 Adv.
I don't feel that you need to apologize for your opinion. What bike are you "in love" with? Seriously curious. Thank you
To be honest there isn't a single bike right now that feels my heart 100%... but if I could pick any bike I'd probably go for the latest versions of the KTM690 or the Husk 701. Other bikes I'd consder, KTM 890R, T7 and KTM500EXC.
I am hopeful for the fabled "KTM 490", that its supposed to be a light-weight twin cylinder dual-sport... that one got my attention, but for now there are only rumors.
For now I am going to stick to my modified XT660R... Its the best bang for the buck out there :P
@@OFFroadOFFcourse thank you for your reply. Great minds think alike! :-) I do like your bike selections! We can dream about the KTM 490!! Cheers!
There are street bikes that can go offroad and offroad bikes that can go on the street, in most cases your better off with the streetbike. KTM 390 for the win.
This is definitely one of those street bikes that can go offroad... Like most bikes really xD
Sold my tiger 900 rp for this, im way more confident and can actually pick it up by myself
Yeah, I think you, off-road enthusiasts, want a unicorn bike, that weighs around 120kg and can do both hard enduro and be good for long distances on the road. I don't think such bike will ever exist. So this follow up video is totally on point, this bike is not that unicorn you're looking for, and for what's it worth, it's much more of a bike in it's class than the others, 250-500cc "Adventurers".
For regular people like me, to be able to take it 3000km away from my home, and then have an adventure on some dirt roads, or reasonably technical trails(for such bikes) - is the definition of Adventure.
it´s all a question of your expectations- i have a 390 Adventure, and i love it. The mistake is to compare it with other bikes, which are much more expensive. Then you will be missing something. When you think, that you have really a lot of bike for 5 T€ ( i bought it one year old with 4 Tkm ) you will turn happy. Otherwise you have to invest at least10 T€ , than you have more power , more anything and more weigh. I don´t need that at all, i´m on a tour, not in a competition.
I live in Indonesia and own 390 adv. I agree it is not a good off road bike or for highway speed. But for us it is the cheapest adv bike with enough power for our road
Bmw 1250 cost usd 70k. Ktm 790 usd 30k. I could afford it but I dont think I would go off road on such expensive bike. They are too damn expensive to be dropped.
Most people I wager only have one bike. That bike then needs to fill most uses. I bet most "adventure" bikes only ever see rather well maintained farm lanes for their "off-road" use.
My own Tiger 800 has for the past 3 years only ever seen that. I don't see myself as a off-road rider, its just off-pavement for a short while.
It is completely understandable that KTM focused more on the on-road and commuting aspect for their first offering because realistically that is what it is used for most of the time. And even if someone takes it "off-road" chances are it is a forest road or farm lane that this bike will handle easily.
We need to separate the marketing material from why owners actually buy such a bike. From my granted limited understanding people seem to buy bikes that are marketed as an adventure bike more for comfort rather than off-road capability.
I mean the best selling bike in that category is the BMW R 1250 GS Adventure... is that really a bike people take on technical off-road trails? I sincerely doubt it. Oh I'm sure there are people who do this but I also think they are miniscule minority.
Something like a Fe 450 less agressive motor and suspension suited for trail adventure riding. Bigger fuel capacity, longer service intervals and not to much extras that everyone strips off their bikes. Keep it simple