Please post your own thoughts in comments as well. Also, as I mention in video, My previous video on topic can be found here: ua-cam.com/video/G5adq6h1JFI/v-deo.html Also, one point I forgot to add/clarify that's also very important. Fights are more complex than ever, so too much discord/voice communication can hinter a fight even more than not talking at all. As such, It's really important to emphasize the importance of non verbal tools to keep communication channels clear for specific things like RL passing instruction. So I firmly believe improving non verbal tools truly is most important way for blizzard to combat addons, because that's really their primary stand in purpose. To fill inadequacies of non verbal encounter tools with base UI.
coding swerlies same colour as ground in a way that they can be obstracted by terrein grass, stairs, carpets. Carpets in upper karazan, grimrail, mists and next season in priary. Those effects need to have some verticality to the effect or to be forced to br rendered on top of objects.
I'm fondly reminiscing the days of Heroic Firelands etc when raiding felt intuitive and understandable without any WAs etc. Only had DBM for timers to know when stuff happens and prepare/act accordingly. Raiding and M+ have been changed to something so hectic that there's very little time to enjoy the game when you're only staring at the WAs etc on the UI to perform optimal rotation and dodge billion abilities at once.
I disagree with the notion that breaking an addon should mean including the functionality into the base game. Most people use raid add-ons to make the game easier. Blizzard doesn't want you to do that anymore. They want you to play the game instead of installing an addon.
Main resto druid here and I don't mythic raid but I do M+ up to 10s and heroic raid: I don't use combat addons or weak auras. I agree nowadays there's a severe design issue and most likely it has lots to do with the brain drain that happened due to all the issues at Blizzard internally but on the other hand the people that's currently working in this game kinda give you in-game tools like sounds or voice lines (mostly in raid) to make you aware that something is going to happen. I always tell people too dependant of addons this: I think you still have a little of game in your addons, remove it because if not you won't be able to play.
Void lines only cover some things. YOu especially have to acknowledge in M+ if you are a melee it can be hard to see frontals and stuff on large pulls. or even several bosses still have blue on blue on blue like mist of tirna scythe with mistcaller. Now some players don't struggle with blue on blue but some people struggle with seeing certain contrasts very poorly without mods to clarify things that blizzard should have designed better.
Way off. Blizz has 10s of MILLIONS of email addresses on file. If they want to segment a part of the community for feedback on something specific - for example; those who have had a active sub for the past 5 years, they can filter those people are send surveys to those it's relevant to. And coupled with how many interviews the devs do with content creators, your statement is completely off base. Now, if you want to talk about how effective they are in implementing feedback - yeah, they are slow as hell and get the message way to late (M+ crests cap they just lifted is a good example of that).
bruh... sending surveys to conduct market research is a century old technique... wtf are you even talking about. YOu have no idea about product marketing and market research...
Why shit talk surveys? They have the means to make them they would be fools not to. Regardless of what else they are or are not doing. And frankly unless you have insider knowledge you can't even know what feed back from the community they gather, if its looked at, considered etc. I agree their communication is a bit lacking but this is an odd point to make.
I am very happy with this. It's a lokg hidden fact that so many people use many addons not because of choice but out of necessity, because that's how they learn to play the game from the community. This is such a deeply rooted issue, because new content is scaled to work with those addons, and then when the players who dont use weakauras and whatever idiotic addon it is that removes the mechanic for you, it makes it 300% harder. Completely unnecessary to have it be like this, and arguing against blizzard for finally having balls to ban certain addons is counterintuitive. Addons should spice up the game if you want to, not be mandatory.
Umm as someone that is pugging M+ I enjoy my weakaura that announces my spell reflect aura being active and on my mage I enjoy my alter time announcer so that I can hope the healer won't use a CD on me because I'm about to save myself. I also fear that in breaking the functionality of one thing, they remove the functionality of other things that we find useful. I have trackers for my own buffs that let me know when I can do things. I'd be fine giving that up as long as we could put sound alerts when our personal auras became active. Now, I agree that they need to reduce what addons and weakauras can do in the game so that they can bring down the complexity of the raid and make mythic raid more accessible to players who aren't as good. I feel like some of the raid bosses are getting harder and harder each season and players are getting more reliant on their weakauras and addons. My raid team spent like 4-5 hours just on Mythic Bloodtwister trying to configure the weakauras our raid lead chose to run for the boss. It's a little much. Thanks for your work!
sorry to say this but as long as blizzard makes crappy encounters (red over red green over green etc) there will always be a need for DBM and aura's .. and tbh i trust addons more then blizzard.. anyone saying dbm and stuff needs to go has a serious misplaced trust in current day blizzard..
i've been saying this for ages. they need to fix their telegraph design/system to have a HARD EDGE. and specific colors need to be reserved for hostile vs friendly ground effects. i know they do the fuzzy edge to "hide" latency so that you are never truly sure if you are out of the aoe, so you "can't" blame lag. but this needs to change.
same. i. even saying it for years. even rant about it in other video about why addons mandatory. it also falls under point in this video of “fix the reason people rely on addons instead of just blaming the addon”
I'd love to see WoW developed and tuned to where you didn't need external addons, but they've been designing and tuning the game with external addons in mind for so long now that they can't remove/brick external addons without severely impacting players ability to play the game.
The whole concept of the suggestion is to REPLACE the addons with CAPABLE SOLUTIONS that solve the problems/inadequacy that addons provide an answer for, so they wouldnt need to change the fundamental of their design. They just need to come with the solution for the design aswell.
This is unrelated to DBM, but Ive got all my raid settings on 1 and most raid pulls in nerubar palace take me from 90 fps to 10. I dont have any model weak auras, any idea what else could be tanking fps that hard with settings on basically ps1 graphics?
have you turned down details/recount update timer? I maxed out the recount update timer to like, 3 seconds and my fps lag on bosses improved a good bit. not perfect, but at least it's playable now.
Getting rid of chat bubbles aint it, not without a significant rework of the game's visuals. Half the time a chat bubble is involved, i cant see what the heck is going on in the game without the chat bubbles. Using list addons sucks ass as well, I don't want every mechanic to become Mythic Echo of Neltharion Volcanic Heart as that sucked.
It feels like the blizzard team of people who make ui additions to the game are also the same people who have to make the ui things to all of the new shit they add every patch so we don’t get improvements to the in game addons.
You are incorrect about AVR. Not only did it put up markings, it could sketch out different markings based on the mechanic, it was basically a playbook for the boss fight. You could download a profile for putricide and it would guide you through the whole fight.
I'm tired of the narrative about an "arms race" between addon developers and Blizzard. There is no arms race. It's simply Blizzard creating faulty mechanics, and players fixing them through addons. Take the example of Ovinax: the mechanic requires four players to coordinate and break the egg within 12 seconds. If even one person fails, it’s essentially a wipe. And all of this happens in an environment where communication isn’t allowed. Meanwhile, players are juggling complex, fast-paced DPS rotations, defensive abilities, and AoE mechanics on the ground. Expecting them to communicate through voice chat on top of all that is asking too much. If Blizzard accepted that coordination and communication should happen before the pull, we wouldn’t have the issue of combat addons being a necessity.
exaclly problem is encounter design not players using addons. sikran dash is en example of mechanic that no one usses assigments, Yes it is easy boss but point stands mechanic gives just about enough time for marked players to position and ping system is all thats is needed on the go and raid markers pd job for preplaned portion of this mechanic. Imo Ovi mechanic requires to make decision in to litle time to cordinate with out comunication, sortof mechanic intended to be a personal decision but executed in a way where it is a raid decision.
@@fencingfireferret1188you’re both wrong. It should absolutely be removed. And Blizz should absolutely not create a boss that requires so many addons and weakauras to clear reasonably. No mythic guild has killed this boss without these weak auras. Get real. You don’t have that kill without it. Believe me.
again my take isn’t to just “remove it and let players fend for themselves” it’s remove AND address reason they existed in first place. for example you know how other games solve interrupt assignments without addon? they give mobs unique identifiers. it’s not caster caster caster it’s caster A caster B caster C or 1 2 3. my point has always been that blizzards stance that addons create a problem they have to solve with harder mechanics is flawed. addons are solving problems blizzard created. they spend too much time blame shifting on us when the core purpose of addons is to fix deficiencies that blizzard should fix tl/dr. blizzard needs to solve the reasons addons are needed too. not just break them and call it a day
especially in M+ telegrafing of some abilities is so bad (targeted frontals, charges. AOE) ping with player names is great idea as long as it since it shows class colours and role icon. it is important especially when other players names are writen in non latin alfabet and in Pug grp where you dont automaticaly connect whos name that is. sollid 50 of abilities wouldnt need chat boubless, WA reminders, or imput from other addons if those abilities had good visual AND sound telegrafing Also blizzard should include more volume sliders so players reduce amount of distracting noise ie voicellines, friengly / hostile spell effects only own or everyones similar to reduceing visual clater option. there is many bosses where boss ability overlaps with voicline and DBM/BW notifications on top of spell effects.
i don’t think bosses need to be easier. the hardest mechanic just needs to stop being mechanics you can’t see like red on red or too many mechanics at once then expecting players to use voice chat and talk over each other instead of using addons. blizzard needs to be practical and smart and i fear they won’t be either
I agree with your stance on addons should be sprinkles, not frosting on the cake. Perhaps the raid encounters and players focus these days are too much on DPS and numbers they can show off. I would want to see Ovinax egg assignment to send out 4 debuffs where the debuffed person is completely unable to attack/heal but use movement utilities only to move to the eggs. This along with more visible elements (like the runes on players heads) would force the players to do the mechanic instead of focusing on DPS cycles and missing the mechanics. I know completely turning off attacks for few people at certain intervals of the fight will be absolutely hated by a lot of people. And yes, it is punishing for the top players who could do the mechanic and pull off tons of damage. I'm just wishing that the complex mechanics for the encounter to be separate from the whole DPS rotations.
Im not being funny but even now as a seasoned player addons are needed. When i started in MOP Dungeons were easy enough to digest abd well projected on whats going on. Now ? You hear quips but so much fancy animations and overlapping stuffs going on its like a raid encounter of harder bosses ots nuts. Then you get a whole raid bosstgat pretty much does nothing at all
things like prog alerts and dot timers etc categorically falls under same category of “recognition of why addons are mandatory and solve that first”. but for most part the concern here to blizzard is encounter automation not class alerts.
@@HealerMommy1 UI WA are positive you also wont check all 30 constantly changing buffs to see 1 procand most of simple combat WA are OK (ie boss casts X icon) to its an option for players to make UI more readable. Big complex assigment WA are a problem but this problem comes primaly from encounter design and lack of ingame non voice comunication (comunicating everything over voice is not possile if more them 1 person tallks at a time noone will get anything)
I disagree, honestly before they break any add ons that indicate environmental placement of who needs to move where they need to have an actually system inplace and code encounters that actually mark players with a visual indicator. Or not design encounters that require FAST PRECISE positioning, really loathe those types of encounters.
that’s pretty much the point i made all video. i specifically said what they should break but only if they also address the problems those features solved in first place.
Yeah Blizz really should do more unified visuals for mechanics to help communicate what is happening and add those symbols etc to communicate things to make the game such that you do not need addons to play it. But if they dont do that and break the addons - GG. The ideas to add into ping system was especially great, I hope they implement that.
I really hoped there were no addons needed in a WoW 2. especcially ovinax is so overloaded with macros and weakauras, the fight is barely organizable without private weakauras and one player marking everything (which is super annoying to do, especcially in mythic) you pretty much need one guy to read and write weakauras fluently, be it northern sky or another liquid fork and mod it for language support. super frustrating to deal with as fightlead. good fight but garbage design. also dont get me started on issues with different versions and "say"- interactions with DBM/BigWigs
Thanks to DBM I managed 4 heroic dungeons yesterday without ever doing them before thanks to the warnings, where I would have failed miserably with the default ui. Also what do you use for the ping marker add-on?
Ping markers isnt an addon but an ingame feature. If you talk about the normal keybind its G. Holding g down and moving the mouse decides which ping you want to use. If you look for an addon that does what the pings does just with worldmarkers (raid flares). There is an addon called Opie that can provide you with a wheel for world markers if you set it up correctly to do so. It might even be a wheel in itself when you download it, cant remember :)
The only addons that should be allowed are things that help you cosmetically or Auction/mail addons. Anything that helps you fight a boss should be taken out of the game. We didn't have addons for all of the old MMO's, UO, EQ, AC and DAoC and didn't have all these addons like DBM and Weak Auras for the start of WoW and everyone did fine. You've learned to live with a crutch, time to walk on your own.
I think I said it best in my previous video 7 months ago but addons being sprinkles or flourishes on top meant purely that addons should mostly be the final cosmetic touch to just making your UI feel like yours. But all the core functionalities needed should be provided by base game. Best example for some of us older people is winamp back in day. teh app had everything you needed built in. the mods you downloaded were to make it LOOK the way you wanted. not to add missing functionality.
They should try and communicate with addon dev's for sure, it's kinda insane they don't.Why discard such a massive pool of knowledge. 10/10 video as usual :D
no. i said people would still make lists. but blizzard should solve for why people need bubbles and icons to see things. i swear people are commenting without watching whole video.
@@mysticalos I watched the whole video. You say people will make lists but justify it by saying it requires brain processing as if thats better. Also, majority of players do not want to read a list in the middle of combat, they would much rather view their environment. Just like your example of odyn's runes. Lists suck.
that’s a ridiculous comment. first of all i have done fight. i did not get to kill it due to guild only raiding 4-5 hours a week. but also just because i haven’t killed a fight doesn’t mean i dont know it well. you do know im author of dbm right? i have intimate knowledge of every fight inside and out. i know addons are required for it. that’s precisely the point of video. blizzard wants to break more addon functionality and it’s important for our message to be heard that to do so requires addressing the problems that make them mandatory first before they do something stupid that makes the game less accessible to players.
The game should be designed for the majority of the players, not just for the RTWF competing big time players. Mythic Ovi'nax is a nightmare as you really need multiple Weakauras and boss mods to handle to mechanics, without them it is simply impossible.
you say that as if you don’t understand problem at all. people often have bad take addons are for dumb players and in some cases that may be true. but for majority they’re fixing a fundamental problem in boss design. poor visibility insufficient time and just overall poor tools
Never thought of it this way, good insight. Makes sense that stuff that interacts with environment should be banned anything that automates something should be restricted to macros, also macros need to be less flexible you can do too much with them these days. This goes for classic wow too, especially hardcore. i think the game is way less fun and challenging with all the automated shit we get access to.. unitscans are the worse, all the quest addons mark targets and i feel wo bad when im in grp with ppl that use these addons, all the spam and auto assignments for raids makes the game more robotic and less fluid. I bet raids will be more interesting if they remove all the automation, cuz they'll design the encounter with the notion that humans should take decisions and not an addon.
All "Simon says" addon functionality needs to go away and Blizzard needs to stop coding swirlies in the same color as the fucking ground >.> Simple as that. Nymue was the worst boss fight of previous tier just because of visibility issues.
it might be a shock for you but its like 90% retail / 10% classic and classic numbers are about to drop massively again when wotlk classic ends in china. the chinese players are crazy about wotlk classic
classic higher than you think but yes china biggest contributor. but they are just as excited for mop. in fact china is reason for mop classic even happening.
Don't get me wrong but I would love to have WoW without addons. Some people rely on these so much that they are basically on autopilot during raid encounters f*cking up really really basic mechanics. I'm using DBM since it's first got available and it's really a helpful tool to understand the fights and learn them for sure but we are at a point where the combination of WeakAuras plus other addons are basically mandatory and without them you don't even have a chance raiding properly imo. Me personally, I fell in love with Path of Exile 2 right now, because I love figuring out the really basic but deadly fights without using any aids (youtube vids, guides etc.), it just feels more fulfilling, I would love to have this in WoW.
yeah. they shouldn’t be mandatory. if you have t seen other video yet. i do an even deeper dive comparing like of witcher vs skyrim. both support mods but one is designed around them and one isn’t. and the difference is stark. one is way easier to play vanilla than other.
I'm assuming that since the clients are the same, that any changes they make to Retail will also trickle down to Era/Anniversary servers? It's pretty hypocritical of Blizzard to backtrack on QoL upgrades like Rend for Alliance, and quote "no changes without communication" only to very shortly after kill multiple features that were present in Classic like /range and cancelling buffs in combat.
This, exactly this. Talk to the add on makers, just get some actual information that could help the game. Setting up the fucking notes and WA for M ovinaxx was aids, extra aids when someone was sick, and we had to do the whole thing over for each new sub we got in…
I really like the idea you have with pings. But i do think the ping names should be a toggle. And the blue (normal) ping shouldnt have a name + class color under. I like the idea that its similar to league of legends as a "look here" ping. For example on tindral multiple people would ping seeds that werent soaked yet. Having 5-8 names with those pings would just be visually clutter.
People like you should be the ones making games. Unfortunately, over the past decade, the gaming industry has lost much of its passion. Today, gaming has become more about profit than creativity. Expensive marketing strategies dominate, designed solely to generate revenue by focusing on metrics that prioritize financial gain over the true spirit of gaming.
@@mysticalos > get a CS degree or at least a moderate amount of experience in coding ✓ > get an intership then become junior game dev > save up as much money as u can for a few years > now that u've saved hopefully a lot of money and gained years of game dev experience, it's time to start ur journey > quit ur job and start working on ur game (you might be just before this step idk) > after 5 long years of hard work and sweat, u're proud of ur creation, it's no elden ring but u love it > partner with a small publisher cuz that's the best u can get as an unknown dev > publish ur game on steam > 20 reviews after a month > gg go next, jump from the roof to reroll to next life
they have to design game in the way that these addond are not needed. And ban them in general, some i would keep but some i would permamently ban. Addons should be banned in general.
Blizzard used to make the best games in the industry, after Actishition took over is all crap. A game that needs addons from external sources to be enjoyable is shit. Well, not all, but the competitive part of it. Anyway...
in an ideal world addons simply wouldn’t be needed. point im makibg is you can’t just ban em and call it a day. you have to fix the underlying problems on why players need them first.
Please post your own thoughts in comments as well. Also, as I mention in video, My previous video on topic can be found here: ua-cam.com/video/G5adq6h1JFI/v-deo.html
Also, one point I forgot to add/clarify that's also very important. Fights are more complex than ever, so too much discord/voice communication can hinter a fight even more than not talking at all. As such, It's really important to emphasize the importance of non verbal tools to keep communication channels clear for specific things like RL passing instruction. So I firmly believe improving non verbal tools truly is most important way for blizzard to combat addons, because that's really their primary stand in purpose. To fill inadequacies of non verbal encounter tools with base UI.
They need to first design encounters that do not require weak auras.
precisely the point.
Git gud lol
@@горшочек-ч9жThat’s kind of the point he just made lol
coding swerlies same colour as ground in a way that they can be obstracted by terrein grass, stairs, carpets. Carpets in upper karazan, grimrail, mists and next season in priary. Those effects need to have some verticality to the effect or to be forced to br rendered on top of objects.
I'm fondly reminiscing the days of Heroic Firelands etc when raiding felt intuitive and understandable without any WAs etc. Only had DBM for timers to know when stuff happens and prepare/act accordingly.
Raiding and M+ have been changed to something so hectic that there's very little time to enjoy the game when you're only staring at the WAs etc on the UI to perform optimal rotation and dodge billion abilities at once.
Ideally I’d love Blizzard to fold addon features into the base game… and leave addons to customize how it looks, behaves etc.
I disagree with the notion that breaking an addon should mean including the functionality into the base game. Most people use raid add-ons to make the game easier. Blizzard doesn't want you to do that anymore. They want you to play the game instead of installing an addon.
As long as they don’t assign a specific number of debuffs to dps, tanks and healers in a fixed way you can’t break marking
Main resto druid here and I don't mythic raid but I do M+ up to 10s and heroic raid: I don't use combat addons or weak auras.
I agree nowadays there's a severe design issue and most likely it has lots to do with the brain drain that happened due to all the issues at Blizzard internally but on the other hand the people that's currently working in this game kinda give you in-game tools like sounds or voice lines (mostly in raid) to make you aware that something is going to happen. I always tell people too dependant of addons this: I think you still have a little of game in your addons, remove it because if not you won't be able to play.
Void lines only cover some things. YOu especially have to acknowledge in M+ if you are a melee it can be hard to see frontals and stuff on large pulls. or even several bosses still have blue on blue on blue like mist of tirna scythe with mistcaller. Now some players don't struggle with blue on blue but some people struggle with seeing certain contrasts very poorly without mods to clarify things that blizzard should have designed better.
This is a company that sends out surveys to get info, they are terrified of direct communication.
Those jobs simply got cut for profit.
Way off. Blizz has 10s of MILLIONS of email addresses on file. If they want to segment a part of the community for feedback on something specific - for example; those who have had a active sub for the past 5 years, they can filter those people are send surveys to those it's relevant to. And coupled with how many interviews the devs do with content creators, your statement is completely off base. Now, if you want to talk about how effective they are in implementing feedback - yeah, they are slow as hell and get the message way to late (M+ crests cap they just lifted is a good example of that).
bruh... sending surveys to conduct market research is a century old technique... wtf are you even talking about. YOu have no idea about product marketing and market research...
@@artug92 cool. i'm here to play a fun game not an excel spreadsheet
Why shit talk surveys? They have the means to make them they would be fools not to. Regardless of what else they are or are not doing. And frankly unless you have insider knowledge you can't even know what feed back from the community they gather, if its looked at, considered etc.
I agree their communication is a bit lacking but this is an odd point to make.
I am very happy with this. It's a lokg hidden fact that so many people use many addons not because of choice but out of necessity, because that's how they learn to play the game from the community. This is such a deeply rooted issue, because new content is scaled to work with those addons, and then when the players who dont use weakauras and whatever idiotic addon it is that removes the mechanic for you, it makes it 300% harder. Completely unnecessary to have it be like this, and arguing against blizzard for finally having balls to ban certain addons is counterintuitive. Addons should spice up the game if you want to, not be mandatory.
Umm as someone that is pugging M+ I enjoy my weakaura that announces my spell reflect aura being active and on my mage I enjoy my alter time announcer so that I can hope the healer won't use a CD on me because I'm about to save myself. I also fear that in breaking the functionality of one thing, they remove the functionality of other things that we find useful. I have trackers for my own buffs that let me know when I can do things. I'd be fine giving that up as long as we could put sound alerts when our personal auras became active.
Now, I agree that they need to reduce what addons and weakauras can do in the game so that they can bring down the complexity of the raid and make mythic raid more accessible to players who aren't as good. I feel like some of the raid bosses are getting harder and harder each season and players are getting more reliant on their weakauras and addons. My raid team spent like 4-5 hours just on Mythic Bloodtwister trying to configure the weakauras our raid lead chose to run for the boss. It's a little much. Thanks for your work!
sorry to say this but as long as blizzard makes crappy encounters (red over red green over green etc) there will always be a need for DBM and aura's .. and tbh i trust addons more then blizzard.. anyone saying dbm and stuff needs to go has a serious misplaced trust in current day blizzard..
i've been saying this for ages. they need to fix their telegraph design/system to have a HARD EDGE. and specific colors need to be reserved for hostile vs friendly ground effects. i know they do the fuzzy edge to "hide" latency so that you are never truly sure if you are out of the aoe, so you "can't" blame lag. but this needs to change.
same. i. even saying it for years. even rant about it in other video about why addons mandatory. it also falls under point in this video of “fix the reason people rely on addons instead of just blaming the addon”
I'd love to see WoW developed and tuned to where you didn't need external addons, but they've been designing and tuning the game with external addons in mind for so long now that they can't remove/brick external addons without severely impacting players ability to play the game.
The whole concept of the suggestion is to REPLACE the addons with CAPABLE SOLUTIONS that solve the problems/inadequacy that addons provide an answer for, so they wouldnt need to change the fundamental of their design. They just need to come with the solution for the design aswell.
blizzard is lazy period... just look at this recent patch we got.
This is unrelated to DBM, but Ive got all my raid settings on 1 and most raid pulls in nerubar palace take me from 90 fps to 10. I dont have any model weak auras, any idea what else could be tanking fps that hard with settings on basically ps1 graphics?
have you turned down details/recount update timer? I maxed out the recount update timer to like, 3 seconds and my fps lag on bosses improved a good bit. not perfect, but at least it's playable now.
@adondriel ill try 3s. I think its on 1s rn because 3s felt agonizing to my monkey dps brain
model addons cause problem too like if you have player portraits enabled on unit frames turn it off.
@@mysticalos i dont think i do but maybe ill try putting together a non elvui ui. Im not 100% sure whats in my scuffed profile ive had for years.
After playing with every setting, addon, and much analysis... I had to upgrade to a cpu with more avaliable inputs per cycle and larger cache...
Hi!
Did you test any performance? Like raids / open world /!dungeons is better fps performance?
in todays patch? i doubt it. due to holidays my guild is not raiding again til after new year.
Getting rid of chat bubbles aint it, not without a significant rework of the game's visuals.
Half the time a chat bubble is involved, i cant see what the heck is going on in the game without the chat bubbles.
Using list addons sucks ass as well, I don't want every mechanic to become Mythic Echo of Neltharion Volcanic Heart as that sucked.
You do realise that you can turn chat bubbles off in game
@@kickthunt4239 Why would I want to turn them off?
My favourite example of why removing environmental shit doesnt work is my favourite raid, Antorus... green environment with green aoe markers.
that’s precisely the problem. they need to fix visuals in tandem with banning bubbles.
It feels like the blizzard team of people who make ui additions to the game are also the same people who have to make the ui things to all of the new shit they add every patch so we don’t get improvements to the in game addons.
You are incorrect about AVR. Not only did it put up markings, it could sketch out different markings based on the mechanic, it was basically a playbook for the boss fight. You could download a profile for putricide and it would guide you through the whole fight.
i know. but raid flares was one of main uses of avr. avre had the scripts for drawing out mechanics.
I'm tired of the narrative about an "arms race" between addon developers and Blizzard. There is no arms race. It's simply Blizzard creating faulty mechanics, and players fixing them through addons.
Take the example of Ovinax: the mechanic requires four players to coordinate and break the egg within 12 seconds. If even one person fails, it’s essentially a wipe. And all of this happens in an environment where communication isn’t allowed.
Meanwhile, players are juggling complex, fast-paced DPS rotations, defensive abilities, and AoE mechanics on the ground. Expecting them to communicate through voice chat on top of all that is asking too much.
If Blizzard accepted that coordination and communication should happen before the pull, we wouldn’t have the issue of combat addons being a necessity.
hit the nail on the head.
exaclly problem is encounter design not players using addons. sikran dash is en example of mechanic that no one usses assigments, Yes it is easy boss but point stands mechanic gives just about enough time for marked players to position and ping system is all thats is needed on the go and raid markers pd job for preplaned portion of this mechanic. Imo Ovi mechanic requires to make decision in to litle time to cordinate with out comunication, sortof mechanic intended to be a personal decision but executed in a way where it is a raid decision.
Removing auto marker addon is one of the worst takes I have ever heard
if you can't coordinate without a magic addon painting everyone the right color you don't deserve the clear
@@fencingfireferret1188you’re both wrong. It should absolutely be removed. And Blizz should absolutely not create a boss that requires so many addons and weakauras to clear reasonably. No mythic guild has killed this boss without these weak auras. Get real. You don’t have that kill without it. Believe me.
@@mattgarbe4840 I am talking about the auto marker weakaura for mythic+. Cause its so good to have marked monsters so you know what to focus interrupt
again my take isn’t to just “remove it and let players fend for themselves” it’s remove AND address reason they existed in first place. for example you know how other games solve interrupt assignments without addon? they give mobs unique identifiers. it’s not caster caster caster it’s caster A caster B caster C or 1 2 3.
my point has always been that blizzards stance that addons create a problem they have to solve with harder mechanics is flawed. addons are solving problems blizzard created. they spend too much time blame shifting on us when the core purpose of addons is to fix deficiencies that blizzard should fix
tl/dr. blizzard needs to solve the reasons addons are needed too. not just break them and call it a day
new patch and new Mystical video, Wednesday couldn't get any better!
especially in M+ telegrafing of some abilities is so bad (targeted frontals, charges. AOE)
ping with player names is great idea as long as it since it shows class colours and role icon. it is important especially when other players names are writen in non latin alfabet and in Pug grp where you dont automaticaly connect whos name that is.
sollid 50 of abilities wouldnt need chat boubless, WA reminders, or imput from other addons if those abilities had good visual AND sound telegrafing
Also blizzard should include more volume sliders so players reduce amount of distracting noise ie voicellines, friengly / hostile spell effects only own or everyones similar to reduceing visual clater option. there is many bosses where boss ability overlaps with voicline and DBM/BW notifications on top of spell effects.
Get rid of all combat addons period and then Blizz will be forced to make smoother encounters where things the mobs/boss do are easily understood.
i don’t think bosses need to be easier. the hardest mechanic just needs to stop being mechanics you can’t see like red on red or too many mechanics at once then expecting players to use voice chat and talk over each other instead of using addons. blizzard needs to be practical and smart and i fear they won’t be either
I agree with your stance on addons should be sprinkles, not frosting on the cake.
Perhaps the raid encounters and players focus these days are too much on DPS and numbers they can show off. I would want to see Ovinax egg assignment to send out 4 debuffs where the debuffed person is completely unable to attack/heal but use movement utilities only to move to the eggs. This along with more visible elements (like the runes on players heads) would force the players to do the mechanic instead of focusing on DPS cycles and missing the mechanics.
I know completely turning off attacks for few people at certain intervals of the fight will be absolutely hated by a lot of people. And yes, it is punishing for the top players who could do the mechanic and pull off tons of damage. I'm just wishing that the complex mechanics for the encounter to be separate from the whole DPS rotations.
Im not being funny but even now as a seasoned player addons are needed. When i started in MOP Dungeons were easy enough to digest abd well projected on whats going on. Now ? You hear quips but so much fancy animations and overlapping stuffs going on its like a raid encounter of harder bosses ots nuts. Then you get a whole raid bosstgat pretty much does nothing at all
If they break weakauras, I will never be able to play more advanced classes. Custom ability buttons and tracking is mandatory.
sorry WA need to go they cheese to much
things like prog alerts and dot timers etc categorically falls under same category of “recognition of why addons are mandatory and solve that first”. but for most part the concern here to blizzard is encounter automation not class alerts.
@@HealerMommy1 UI WA are positive you also wont check all 30 constantly changing buffs to see 1 procand most of simple combat WA are OK (ie boss casts X icon) to its an option for players to make UI more readable. Big complex assigment WA are a problem but this problem comes primaly from encounter design and lack of ingame non voice comunication (comunicating everything over voice is not possile if more them 1 person tallks at a time noone will get anything)
I disagree, honestly before they break any add ons that indicate environmental placement of who needs to move where they need to have an actually system inplace and code encounters that actually mark players with a visual indicator. Or not design encounters that require FAST PRECISE positioning, really loathe those types of encounters.
that’s pretty much the point i made all video. i specifically said what they should break but only if they also address the problems those features solved in first place.
Yeah Blizz really should do more unified visuals for mechanics to help communicate what is happening and add those symbols etc to communicate things to make the game such that you do not need addons to play it. But if they dont do that and break the addons - GG. The ideas to add into ping system was especially great, I hope they implement that.
I really hoped there were no addons needed in a WoW 2. especcially ovinax is so overloaded with macros and weakauras, the fight is barely organizable without private weakauras and one player marking everything (which is super annoying to do, especcially in mythic) you pretty much need one guy to read and write weakauras fluently, be it northern sky or another liquid fork and mod it for language support. super frustrating to deal with as fightlead. good fight but garbage design.
also dont get me started on issues with different versions and "say"- interactions with DBM/BigWigs
Thanks to DBM I managed 4 heroic dungeons yesterday without ever doing them before thanks to the warnings, where I would have failed miserably with the default ui.
Also what do you use for the ping marker add-on?
the ping i brought up in video? that’s built into game. not an addon.
Ping markers isnt an addon but an ingame feature. If you talk about the normal keybind its G. Holding g down and moving the mouse decides which ping you want to use.
If you look for an addon that does what the pings does just with worldmarkers (raid flares). There is an addon called Opie that can provide you with a wheel for world markers if you set it up correctly to do so. It might even be a wheel in itself when you download it, cant remember :)
G is trinket 1 for me, has been since cata/mists so no wonder see these 🙂
The only addons that should be allowed are things that help you cosmetically or Auction/mail addons. Anything that helps you fight a boss should be taken out of the game. We didn't have addons for all of the old MMO's, UO, EQ, AC and DAoC and didn't have all these addons like DBM and Weak Auras for the start of WoW and everyone did fine. You've learned to live with a crutch, time to walk on your own.
I think I said it best in my previous video 7 months ago but addons being sprinkles or flourishes on top meant purely that addons should mostly be the final cosmetic touch to just making your UI feel like yours. But all the core functionalities needed should be provided by base game. Best example for some of us older people is winamp back in day. teh app had everything you needed built in. the mods you downloaded were to make it LOOK the way you wanted. not to add missing functionality.
They should try and communicate with addon dev's for sure, it's kinda insane they don't.Why discard such a massive pool of knowledge.
10/10 video as usual :D
ur idea is to break chat bubbles so people have to use lists? id rather just have the chat bubbles. just disable addons in raids.
no. i said people would still make lists. but blizzard should solve for why people need bubbles and icons to see things. i swear people are commenting without watching whole video.
@@mysticalos I watched the whole video. You say people will make lists but justify it by saying it requires brain processing as if thats better. Also, majority of players do not want to read a list in the middle of combat, they would much rather view their environment. Just like your example of odyn's runes. Lists suck.
Now I want some cake...
🎂🍰
Have you killed mythic broodtwister? Do you think it would be a fight that is possible for almost any guild without auto assigning weakauras?
Hell no. Some might get it, but not too many. It's a brutal fight with addons and near impossible without.
He has not killed M Brood or he wouldn't have made this video.
that’s a ridiculous comment. first of all i have done fight. i did not get to kill it due to guild only raiding 4-5 hours a week. but also just because i haven’t killed a fight doesn’t mean i dont know it well. you do know im author of dbm right? i have intimate knowledge of every fight inside and out. i know addons are required for it. that’s precisely the point of video. blizzard wants to break more addon functionality and it’s important for our message to be heard that to do so requires addressing the problems that make them mandatory first before they do something stupid that makes the game less accessible to players.
The game should be designed for the majority of the players, not just for the RTWF competing big time players. Mythic Ovi'nax is a nightmare as you really need multiple Weakauras and boss mods to handle to mechanics, without them it is simply impossible.
Meh let them break the add-ons.
Then see who is really pro out there.
you say that as if you don’t understand problem at all. people often have bad take addons are for dumb players and in some cases that may be true. but for majority they’re fixing a fundamental problem in boss design. poor visibility insufficient time and just overall poor tools
Never thought of it this way, good insight. Makes sense that stuff that interacts with environment should be banned anything that automates something should be restricted to macros, also macros need to be less flexible you can do too much with them these days.
This goes for classic wow too, especially hardcore. i think the game is way less fun and challenging with all the automated shit we get access to.. unitscans are the worse, all the quest addons mark targets and i feel wo bad when im in grp with ppl that use these addons, all the spam and auto assignments for raids makes the game more robotic and less fluid.
I bet raids will be more interesting if they remove all the automation, cuz they'll design the encounter with the notion that humans should take decisions and not an addon.
Love it…
All "Simon says" addon functionality needs to go away and Blizzard needs to stop coding swirlies in the same color as the fucking ground >.> Simple as that. Nymue was the worst boss fight of previous tier just because of visibility issues.
yeah i had a real hard time seeing things there.
Who cares abou retail in 2024 cmon
Many.
it might be a shock for you but its like 90% retail / 10% classic and classic numbers are about to drop massively again when wotlk classic ends in china. the chinese players are crazy about wotlk classic
classic higher than you think but yes china biggest contributor. but they are just as excited for mop. in fact china is reason for mop classic even happening.
Don't get me wrong but I would love to have WoW without addons. Some people rely on these so much that they are basically on autopilot during raid encounters f*cking up really really basic mechanics. I'm using DBM since it's first got available and it's really a helpful tool to understand the fights and learn them for sure but we are at a point where the combination of WeakAuras plus other addons are basically mandatory and without them you don't even have a chance raiding properly imo. Me personally, I fell in love with Path of Exile 2 right now, because I love figuring out the really basic but deadly fights without using any aids (youtube vids, guides etc.), it just feels more fulfilling, I would love to have this in WoW.
yeah. they shouldn’t be mandatory. if you have t seen other video yet. i do an even deeper dive comparing like of witcher vs skyrim. both support mods but one is designed around them
and one isn’t. and the difference is stark. one is way easier to play vanilla than other.
I'm assuming that since the clients are the same, that any changes they make to Retail will also trickle down to Era/Anniversary servers? It's pretty hypocritical of Blizzard to backtrack on QoL upgrades like Rend for Alliance, and quote "no changes without communication" only to very shortly after kill multiple features that were present in Classic like /range and cancelling buffs in combat.
it always trickles down. it’s why cata and era 1.15 both removed range finder. they back port restrictions.
Blizzard truly does not give a shit.
This, exactly this. Talk to the add on makers, just get some actual information that could help the game. Setting up the fucking notes and WA for M ovinaxx was aids, extra aids when someone was sick, and we had to do the whole thing over for each new sub we got in…
I really like the idea you have with pings. But i do think the ping names should be a toggle. And the blue (normal) ping shouldnt have a name + class color under. I like the idea that its similar to league of legends as a "look here" ping. For example on tindral multiple people would ping seeds that werent soaked yet. Having 5-8 names with those pings would just be visually clutter.
true. would probably have to be a diff one on wheel or something
People like you should be the ones making games. Unfortunately, over the past decade, the gaming industry has lost much of its passion. Today, gaming has become more about profit than creativity. Expensive marketing strategies dominate, designed solely to generate revenue by focusing on metrics that prioritize financial gain over the true spirit of gaming.
accurate. i wish i could make games. can barely one man an addon. :)
@@mysticalos
> get a CS degree or at least a moderate amount of experience in coding ✓
> get an intership then become junior game dev
> save up as much money as u can for a few years
> now that u've saved hopefully a lot of money and gained years of game dev experience, it's time to start ur journey
> quit ur job and start working on ur game (you might be just before this step idk)
> after 5 long years of hard work and sweat, u're proud of ur creation, it's no elden ring but u love it
> partner with a small publisher cuz that's the best u can get as an unknown dev
> publish ur game on steam
> 20 reviews after a month
> gg go next, jump from the roof to reroll to next life
they have to design game in the way that these addond are not needed. And ban them in general, some i would keep but some i would permamently ban. Addons should be banned in general.
Blizzard used to make the best games in the industry, after Actishition took over is all crap.
A game that needs addons from external sources to be enjoyable is shit.
Well, not all, but the competitive part of it.
Anyway...
Hope they ban all addons, might actually start playing again.
in an ideal world addons simply wouldn’t be needed. point im makibg is you can’t just ban em and call it a day. you have to fix the underlying problems on why players need them first.