I always thought Shine A Light was *supposed* to be syrupy, over-simplified positivity to show that the adults really don't understand the depth of the situation.
"Barrett Wilbert Weed is... not my girlfriend." "Can we just, like, look at her face and her voice" "Barrett Wilbert Weed... is a goddess" OKAY BUT ME THOUGH I LOVE HER SO MUCH
i had a heathers based birthday party. so the balloons were the heathers we had a black balloon to be jd and then we had a blue balloon to be veronica (the black balloon was too full of air is why this happened btw) but the black balloon touched the floor, rolled right next to the blue one and blew up. it was hilarious and accurate edit: holy shit this was written 3 years ago, i hope yall commenting "r/thathappened" understand that there were *many* balloons assigned to them and we wrote their names on their corresponding colors. there were like 50 balloons in total (bad for the environment i know) but that means that there were MULTIPLE jds and multiple veronicas. it just happened to roll up to a blue one when it popped. stop tryna take away 14 year old mes favorite birthday story yall >:( (this was written a year after the birthday party) you can literally ask anyone that was there (good luck finding them) we all lost our minds
Shine a light is great to be because it's so bland. That's the point of the song. Just one big bland eveeything is cool and fake coaster of bullshit. Love it.
Yeah, that's also my feeling about Dead Gay Son too. It''s describing the school ignoring the real problems for platitudes and "be nice to each other" bullshit. And suprise suprise, the popular kids come out on top. There's a reason they're not the resolution, but part of the rising action. They don't solve anything.
I find a lot of Broadway related channels just tear shows apart using opinions backed up with unsubstantial reasoning to seem 'edgy', but you speak of shows with educated criticism. I always highly enjoy your videos for this exact reason. Keep it up with the great videos!
Your point on Shine a Light, I feel like the fact that it feels so scripted/emotionless is kind of the point. Like, showing that the school is scripting this number because they "cared" so much, because in the end it's just a big event to promote their school and the teacher. It's a big thing that doesn't fully make sense but it makes sense. If that makes sense.
HeyIt'sLauren it's even more of a literal promotional event in the movie they should've got cameras out so we could have 1 moment of good quality film on a shitty song
The fact that you actually take time to look at the good and bad parts of the show while including humor instead of endless ranting about how terrible it is as if there are no highlights like other Broadway related channels is one of the reasons I love this channel. Also, congratulations! You deserve 5000 subscribers!
can they pls rewrite jd's character and make him scary bc people actually like him and like, ignore the fact that he's a horrible person and it grosses me out like he's literally a psychopath that tries to kill everyone including his gf and then tries to guilt trip her
lilac c Honestly, people like JD way too much. Like, as a character he's really interesting and I do like him, but he's an absolutely awful person and the relationship he has with Veronica is actually absuive. In a way, he's kinda like Erik from Phantom of the Opera - he does terrible things, but even through that you can understand and empathise with the character, at least that's what they tried to do with the musical. In Phantom, his actions (while we can understand what led him to become that person) aren't justified at all with Christine even saying "It's in your soul where the true distortion lies." which is basically saying "You may have suffered for your deformity, but it is not your deformity that is making you suffer now - your actions are solely to blame for that." With JD though, they kinda suggest that his 'tragic' past justifies his actions and make the audience like him too much. Of course, you do get the impression in the musical that JD is beyond saving/changing, but I think I just prefer the treatment of his character in the film. He was genuinely scary and you can tell that (even though he was pretty fucked up in both the film and the musical) he really doesn't care for Veronica and, even if he does, he is basically just using her to meet his own ends and doesn't care if she gets hurt in the process or if she ends up dying. I was actually really annoyed when my friend watched the film with me as well though... My friend hates the film because JD dies in the end, she even said that everyone else deserves to die instead or at least Veronica deserves to die with him. That angered me a lot because it felt like she completely missed the point of the film as well as JD's character. She really wanted JD and Veronica to be together even though the relationship is incredibly abusive emotionally with JD manipulating Veronica and even trying to force himself on her at one point in the film. When Veronica burnt her hand, he used it to light his cigarette rather than checking if she was okay. He influenced her to kill and got her implicated in the murder of her 'friends'. He even tried to kill her. Even with how fucked up he is in the film... There are still people that love him and know no ends whenit comes to justifying his actions. Even if the musical didn't try to humanise him so much, I feel like people would still be like that. Perhaps that is the scariest part of all.
People never want to acknowledge toxic masculinity when they see it. It's easier to call the guy ~crazy~ and/or turn it into this thing about how he's ~so lost~ but his victim can ~save him~.
+Jenna Rhoads Personally...I think it's like, trash tier musical theater. But I'm hesitant to do a video on it because I don't necessarily enjoy just tearing something people like to shreds
Heathers isn't even that high though. The Heathers (especially Heather C.) sing lower notes throughout the whole play. Kindergarten Boyfriend isn't low per say but it's not really a soprano song either. Shine a Light is also an alto song, it's just also had extensive notes. In fact, almost all of the female leads in Heathers are lower voiced except maybe Lifeboat. It's not like they're all Johanna from Sweeney Todd. There's a difference between a shouty soprano and a weak alto who lacks range and power.
To me the movie, the message was "yeah high school can suck, but don't fall for it's trap. You can make it worse like a Heather, or you can be cynical and ostracize yourself like JD (killing aside) but both options are too easy. Almost nothing going on around you is as dramatic or important as it seems" but when all that is simplified into "Be Kind", you loose the nuance.
I actually really love the pro/con format you set up in this video! It takes the sting away from the negative comments for fans of the show while still offering up valid criticisms about it. Big fan of your channel btw
It takes a funny and clever line with layers of comedy and social commentary in the film and turns it into a four minute one note joke with no nuance that I stopped laughing at about fifteen seconds in. No thanks
And their funeral kind of has to be Veronica's shift. She sees the effects of her actions in the girl and the parents crying but you loose that with a big silly "Gay or European" rip off.
I don't know if it doesn't add anything to the musical, I agree it's one of the weaker songs in the musical, but it does serve a few purposes I think. For starters, just as how Me Inside of Me and Shine a Light is used to demonstrate how everyone is using the death of someone else for their own selfish purposes and to canonise the dead as someone entirely different from what they were. It's kind of the subtext in the film and the musical, the boys were grotesque rapey bastards, but now with JD planting the story that they killed themselves to hide their gay love from a misapproving world they become myth figures for hope and tolerance. One of the biggest themes in both the film and musical is delusion, especially self-delusion over people we're meant to care about. The truth is way less believable and attractive than fiction, which I think is also why Veronica falls for JD's bullshit "ich luge bullets" story, at this point she loves him so much she would rather believe murder isn't involved than poke very obvious holes in his story, everyone to some degree in this show wallows in self deception to a ridiculous degree, My Dead Gay Son is just yet another example of that. Kurt and Ram are two of the most popular boys in school and yet their own fathers can't recognise a clearly bullshit story about them, everyone knows them but never made an effort to KNOW them really, which is extra ironic considering the funeral is about their family and friends coming to terms with not knowing they were apparently lovers and suicidal. And for me the fact they are singing what are ultimately a string of stereotypes in the most well meaning way possible adds to that subtext, not only is it shown clearly that the dad's know nothing about gay life and acceptance and base their knowledge off stereotypes, it turns out they're not even really talking about their sons, they're projecting their own self-loathing, closeted gay relationship onto their sons. They are using a bullshit conception of gay life and homophobia based on a clearly fake suicide note to move on with their own lives and address their problems, on the surface of the song that's shallow and somewhat uplifting, but when you look deeper into it it's actually kind of morbid and satirical, they upstage their own sons' funerals for god sake! And the show feels very concious of this. The audience is supposed to feel uncomfortable and incredulous about the song, because it is uncomfortable and incredulous and having a huge number dedicated to it draws attention to that. And plot-wise it acts as further justification for JD to rationalise what he's doing, he even makes the argument directly to Veronica after the song. He claims that the reaction to Kurt and Ram's death by their fathers proves that he's actually doing a good thing, as he sees it two total dickheads get canonised as tragic heroes and their fathers can live their lives happily as gay men, something they may never have considered if the funeral had not happened. Part of the joke of Shine a Light and Me Inside of Me is that nothing really changes when people die, a new head Heather emerges, high school is still hell, everyone is still self absorbed and makes it about themselves, life goes on etc. But here the revelation that Kurt and Ram's dads have been lovers and will commit to helping to gain acceptance of gay men after the deaths of their sons, although somewhat shallow and unintentionally offensive, is a drastic and honorable change for them. And JD cynically latches onto that to argue that he's murdering for the good of mankind and made a real positive difference by fulfilling his selfish need for revenge. And that's the moment when Veronica really starts to fear JD and instantly see through all his bullshit, and JD firmly rockets into a downward spiral as a serial killer, without this moment I'm not sure how that would have progressed that fast. That's my two cents defence of this song anyway.
Silly Slacker Person *i actually like the song because of the beat and stuff but kinda pissed cause it doesnt add anything to the musical. But it still delights me during that part so fuck me right? (with a chainsaw? I dunno)*
Unpopular Opinion: I love JD, in both the movie and the musical. To me he's honestly a really interesting character, and has a bunch of layers to him than just crazy psychopath. (I mean he totally is one but he's got other aspects to him that are intriguing.)
Honestly, I love the musical, but I think that the movie is far superior. The movie isn't like, "Wow, there's actually hope in this damned situation!" Rather it's like, "Let's all suffer until we die!" Not to mention that the movie has this gigantic subliminal commentary on society.
IsrafelScarletRaven to be honest I think the two are too different to compare, although that probably sounds ridiculous. I think they were going for a different path, one of which suits a film better and the other the musical better!
My friend who watched the musical before the movie likes the musical more because JD is more "Believable and humanized. He seems like he actually loves veronica" which I feel like completely missed the point of the originally movie with is that JD DIDNT love veronica, he was totally using her cause she was popular and he could easily manipulate her to basically murder people with him. HE WAS A SOCIOPATH. I love the movie so much more than the musical, and I love the musical a lot.
I definitely like the changes they made for the musical, it's better to have Martha be the friend she left behind instead of some other random pretty girl. And the movie never addresses how Veronica joins the Heathers, she's just there but not truly belonging and you don't quite understand why or when she joined a super popular clique.
I like the newspaper idea but I always interpreted JD's line about planting a school-wide suicide note (in musical canon, not movie canon, where he's more meticulous about things and I think there are some huge characterization differences--notably musical-Veronica being more sympathetic/innocent) as a sign of him going off the deep end, with his whole terrorist plan being poorly thought out and impulsively executed (lolpun). I really feel like he was just applying his previous murder-methods on a larger scale and hoping for the same positive results as before regardless of the practicality of it. If he'd succeeded in his plan, I think he would just have left the note somewhere where it would have gotten burned up in the end, or discarded or w/e. :/ Maybe he'd at least laminate it and hope for the best? I just picture him putting a sticky note on top of the burning rubble at the end, all ":D the cops will believe this!" and the cops absolutely would
Yess thats such a big part in the movie, esp in the bathtub hallucination scene thing with heather duke, when He lashes out. He just wrote "life sucks" as the note and was like "haha this is great" and honestly it was great bc it really contributed to the fact that he was truly losing it and becoming more and more of a physcopath as he carried out with the events in the movie and his relationship with Veronica deteriorated. Aah
Even with all the movie comparisons you still somehow left out my biggest problem with the musical when compared to the movie: the fact that Heather Duke is seriously down played in the musical. The Movie makes it very clear that duke is the bullied, bottom of the totem poll, potentially friendly, Heather - making her transfer to villain both more powerful and understandable. There is a line in the musical where veronica tells the Heather Chandler in her head to shut up and then Duke says "No, I don't have to shut up anymore" and proceeds to put on the scrunchie. The problem is, that line makes way more sense with the arc she got in the movie, but that was mostly omitted from the musical - yes - she was told to shut up a lot - but Duke was not once nice or even a little sympathetic before she becomes a villain, lessening the impact. Okay - now that I'm done with the Duke rant - I think your ideas on JD are spot on, they nerfed his psychopathicness in order to make him more sympathetic. It makes everything less eerie, and gives Veronica someone she can feel safe with, somewhat - which is never a feeling you get in the movie.
I agree with your opinions on Heathers. I love the musical so much but it lacks the deeper meaning that the movie has. It's still one of my favorite though!
Can we appreciate the fact tho that He played Diggy on L&M and now is on heathers The actress who played willow is on On my block and was on how to get away w murder And dove cameron is still on disney pretty sure F for her
I was already thoroughly enjoying, and agreeing with (almost) everything in this video, and then I got to the part about the vowel on the E5 in "Kiiiiindergarden" and was like, why don't more composers understand this??? Also, dead girl walking is definitely allllll about consent and turning rape culture on its head: in the staging, in the lyrics, in the way JD says "ouch," which is a line usually reserved for the girl. And, I think they address the whole Veronica-only-learns-the-lesson thing with that line in the finale, something about she can't promise no more heathers or high school.Thank you for putting into words why I haven't been able to really get into Shine a Light or Dead Gay Son. Okay, I'm done now.
Yes, I haven't seen the original movie yet, but I watched the musical, and have seen a ton of different animatic versions of that song, and I always can't help but scratch my head and wonder if that doesn't somewhat cross the line into borderline rape territory. He does technically consent, but she sort of doesn't give him a whole lot of choice, short of physically stopping her from going any further...
I actually chose this musical as the subject for a speaking exam I had in English and I just analysed mental health in this and the media in general and I love heathers analysis I want to write a book
I feel like “shine a light” is supposed to be bland and create no emotional connection to highlight the disconnect between Fleming and the students and how even though she may have some good intentions she doesn’t truly understand them
What happened to heather duke liking books like in the first part of the movie? Did they decide “oh heather macnamara wanted to commit suicide her personality is WAY more important then heather duke! Let’s just replace her cute, book reading self from the first part of the movie with her bitchy self from the other part of the movie! In fact, let’s just leave in the fact she has bulimia and make her as one dimensional as possible!”
1:45 I don't believe that because he sneaks into Veronica's house during the musical too. The song is: Meant to be Yours I can't believe you didn't mention how it was messed up that none of the adults could pickup on it. Especially when JD blows himself up. Seriously?! You walk away from an explosion and very few people notice?!
i find Veronica being more independant from the start detracts from the character development in the movie. she goes from being the sterotypical 80's girl who needs a strong lover to being a stronger person than the rest of the school who doesn't need no knight in shining armour
Sin: having better suicide notes than the movie Sin: everyone as a whole is a better person Virtue: the period and oh my god when Heather dies Sin: JD doesnt go crazy well enough Sin: JD in Seventeen doesnt sound like JD Sin: Our Love Is God takes a memorable film line and mixes it in with another bit so I can't remember it on command, 4 memorable notes put in so it's the only thing I do remember, and taking out "let's go get a slushie" which is very important too Sin: chaos is what killed the dinosaurs darling is absent and is replaced with sap Sin: romance
My local theatre company did the school version of Heathers and the girl who played Martha was skinny, which, as a plus-sized person, made me deeply angry. I wasn't able to audition for the show, but, allegedly, the director justified a skinny girl playing one of the few somewhat respectable plus-sized roles in musical theatre was that popular girls were extremely vicious in the 80s, and would call anyone fat. ...so, y'know, add that to list of things wrong with Heathers?
Zach T I mean no, but it's called type casting. Certain roles are traditionally played by certain kinds of people. If a director casted a white girl as Dorothy in The Wiz when there was a black girl that was equally as good I'd be scratching my head. I'd be equally as confused if director cast a boy as Peter Pan unless he was absolutely perfect. Also there are plenty of roles for skinny, traditionally pretty, soprano white girls in musical theatre. If there was a plus-size girl that fit the part why not let her have it this one time?
Random Person Yeah, I mean, I understand that. I personally didn't audition for the show, and I didn't intend for my comment to sound as salty as it does. Whoops.
Zach T Yeah, I agree 100%. I guess it just kind of made me sad that there were no plus-sized people that auditioned, or that were good enough to earn the part. I was interning with that theatre company while auditions were going on, so I don't know how many people auditioned. But idk. I definitely understand what you're saying.
5:41 I was seriously laughing at that for the rest of the video I also agree with what you said in this video, me watching both the movie and the show. Another thing is in "Meant To Be Yours", pretty much nothing rhymes XD
Spiritflight ehhh it all rhymes. "And so I built a *bomb*; tonight our school is *Vietnam*" "Sure you're scared, I've been *there*. I can set you free! Veronica, don't make me come in *there*" ""You left me and I fell apart. For that, you should be *dead*. ButButBut, then it hit me like a flash: what if high school went away *instead*?"
I like it .w. It makes me laugh, and he's a good singer, I feel like Ram and Kurt needed an afterlife song just like Heather with Me inside of Me, without it we kinda would just forget about Ram and Kurt
i’d just like to comment on your question abt kurt and rams suicide note. what veronica thought was gonna happen was they were gonna be passed out and the police found the suicide note and word got out at school so the boys come into school not passed out the next day and they’re unpopular
when you're mad because you don't know if the movie or musical is better on one hand, Christian Slater pulls of insane and psychopath like nobody's buisness but on the other hand, the musical has songs
I think the appealing behind jd is mostly "what kind of person he would have been if he hadn't gotten fucked up and exploded", in addition to the whole angsty teen rebel thing. iunno i liked to think of him (and in fact the whole play) as a example of why we need to pay closer attention to mental health in school, although its not stated as such in the story itself.
Heathers kind of captures what school is like when a student dies, however shine a light reprise is not very realistic, students may feel suicidal after what happened, but students don't bully each other about missing them.
Okay FIRST OF ALL shine a light reprise isn't actually in reality, it's all in heather mac's head. Her mind is in a state of anxiety and it's taking the form of heather duke. Second of all, Heather Duke is picking on people because Heather Chandler was horrible to her. Third of all, Heather Duke would've been mad since Heather Mac called her out on live tv.
In my town, one kid at another school committed suicide, and people at my school kept making jokes about it. Then one senior had a speech about mental health and admitted to nearly killing himself. People also made fun of him, people are assholes. It's sadly not that unrealistic.
I think jd being on the fringes of the school is what in the musical stops him from being murderous to begin with. When he finds veronica, who also hates the schools hierarchy, I think she becomes justification in his mind for his feelings/plans. I thought his obsession with veronica and how he puts her on a pedestal was supposed to mirror what the school does with the heathers.
I love heathers I really do but I'm performing in it now and the script is written so weirdly there's a point where the scene is supposed to be in veronicas room yet the script says faculty is in the scene and the music sheets are written extremely weird as well during the sitzprobe we had to fix the music so that was fun
J.D. is supposed to be the character you feel is the sanity in the craziness. But we slowly see over the course of the musical that he can’t be trusted whatsoever. But we can see in “Meant to be yours” that whatever he does he still loves Veronica. So we see him switch back and forth from evil J.D. to loving J.D. and in the end her “suicide” tips him over the edge. It’s nice he’s not just an evil prick, but rather a more complex character who has different sides of his personality.
6:27 I've thought about this overtime I've seen any version of Heathers. My theory is that either she, deep down, actually wants them to be killed...or she just isn't that bright.
Allison x I think she was so blindsided and enamored with him that she would ignore the obvious that "if" they woke up, Kurt and Ram would have seen them shoot them. There is no possible way it makes sense to Veronica.
you missed my least favourite miniscule plot sin - aka veronica, who assumes kurt and ram will wake up HOURS later, because of the 'ich lug' bullets, immediately going "you're just unconscious right?" like yeah, veronica, hell wake up because you ask him if he's unconscious and also him waking up totally wouldn't ruin ur plan
One thing I always thought of, would Veronica not get exposed somehow with her involvement with JD or any of the murders. Like, they don't question how they hear a huge explosion and then seeing Veronica right after covered in ash and dirt. I feel like there would be some deep investigation on everything, considering all of the murders happening and then her seeming involved in the explosion, also as JD seems to have just...disappeared..after the explosion. I feel like considering an investigation JD's background and such, police would then trace it to her as basically she's the only person really involved with him. I know it's just a movie/musical and it's not necessary supposed to be the most realistic, but I just always wondering what would happen if police and investigators would've really got into it and finally traced it to Veronica and JD.
There is nothing wrong with making a villain more sympathetic than they were if it serves the story well. Same with making a villain less sympathetic. This musical does both. No need to pick on the one that got the former treatment.
Also the musical fails to make sure the audience knows that suicide isn't a good thing to do. Like I know that sounds stupid but seriously you can't bet on every member of your audience understanding something unless you somehow show them it, and not just sub textually. The song Kindergarden Boyfriend especially doesn't make clear that Martha jumping is a definitely bad thing that won't solve her problems. The song is written like any ballad and relies on the lyrics only to suggest that this is suicide she's talking about, and relies purely on the audience to decide that that is a very bad thing. It desperately needs some counter in the music to show the audience that this action is one that comes out of deep sadness and confusion. In my Opinion.
Okay I almost screamed when you mentioned the high school version of the musical, because it was made by a high school in my school district (JJ Pearce HS), I remember when all the theatre kids at my school got to go see a showing of it on a field trip and I was so jealous
Honestly I loved the musicals representation of JD he was actually given a personality beside the psycho kid, not to mention the romance between them makes more sense instead of her being like “ he shot two guys with blanks let me date him anyways because YOLO “ it was like “ fighting douche bangs that super hot” it just is a little more plausible, and honestly my favorite part is that I liked them together until it is made clear he is not sane and even after that i still felt they should be together forever until it is made impossible for them to be together . Sorry I just really like this musical
Also add the JD suicide sin back on because he clearly sings in Meant To Be Yours: “In the rubble of their tomb, we’ll plant this note explaining why they died,”
I feel like seeing JD's character really made me understand what those type of people go through. Anger, Sociopathy, Psychopathy, it all comes from root of pain.
I thought the reason for putting the high note kinda off in Kindergarden is because it feels a little off to us. Like, we hear it so rarely sung on that note, that it sounds off and kinda weird, which is how most teenagers would react to Martha, but it's really, really hard to sing and requires a lot of training, showing a depth if you're willing to listen.
6:34 in the movie, j.d. said that once they were found and saw the suicide note, "they'll both be laughing stocks." to quote the musical. of course, he wasn't using ich luge bullets (or if he was, he shot in the wrong place), as kurt and ram died.
There's no low brass, the low voices of the pit is comprised of bari sax, bass guitar, left hand piano, and sometimes tenor sax. That fat round bari sax sound on the low A is incredible though
I actually adore Shine A Light because its purpose was to be ironic, and that shined through *keh keh* when the dark reprise of it played shortly after.
so i recently found out that the guy who plays JD is also Diggie from the show Liv and Maddie and i loved that show as a kid and its...really unnerving
The cheesyness and ineffectiveness of the message actually seems like a bit of brilliant irony, considering Shine A Light, which is all about how cheesy and ineffective what's going on is.
Ok so honestly I absolutely adore JD, like, he's an absolutely awful person but he has a bit of depth to him and I like that? And I also like the fact that he's not terrible when you first meet him, because real psychopaths/ Sociopaths don't seem bad at first? Like, they seem like other people, and you really can't tell they're messed up until later? I like the hints they drop that maybe he's screwy- like in 'Freeze your Brain' you can sorta tell something is off and I love it to be honest!
8:12 "without Veronica having addressed the root cause of unkindness her wish for a better school will go nowhere. And that's a problem none of the characters recognize. Not J.D." See, that's the redeeming factor about J.D. He's the extremely edgy pessimist to the wishy-washy optimism of the school. He even has a very straightforward plan to take care of the root cause of unkindness. It's just that he's identified that root cause as the school and everyone in it.
Marina Diaz that’s kind of the point he’s making. JD isn’t SUPPOSED to be likeable, he’s a murderer. Which is why the movie is better (in terms of accuracy of JD’s character) imo
Sydney Alpers I don't like the suicidal characters are jerks. Sorry I have a real messed up friend group and only one of them is an ass. Others might be jerks and don't mean to. That's why I like JD from the musical better. They gave him a filter.
Marina Diaz personally I don't like how the musical handled his character. To me it's like they were trying to make excuses for his actions despite what he's doing is seriously wrong. They also tried to portray him as being in love with Veronica which doesn't make a whole lot of sense imo considering he's a sociopath. At least a that's how he's in he movie. The musical is trying to romanticize their relationship even though it's unhealthy and messed up. Musical J.D feels like a "fan fiction" version of himself. Don't get me wrong, I love the musical, but it has flaws
Shah Nawaz Ghauri I see what you’re saying and I respect your opinion but I disagree with your point that sociopaths can feel love. A sociopath is defined as someone with a lack of emotion, remorse, sensitivity...if he is a sociopath then it would be highly unlikely for him to love Veronica, or at least to the sane extent as he does in the musical.
I always thought Shine A Light was *supposed* to be syrupy, over-simplified positivity to show that the adults really don't understand the depth of the situation.
"I've been through everything you're going through right now. Your problems seem like life and death! But I promise they're not."
Same.
Anafyral Weyferling: they are tho.
My friend is obsessed about "dead girl walking" and will sing it out loud at school but can't handle "say no to this"
Megan Claycomb ok but same
Lmao they are both about sex. (Though one is about cheating )
in dead girl walking veronica just. _rides jd._ in say no to this there's just a kiss. but ok lmao
I love both
Megan Claycomb wow
"Barrett Wilbert Weed is... not my girlfriend."
"Can we just, like, look at her face and her voice"
"Barrett Wilbert Weed... is a goddess"
OKAY BUT ME THOUGH I LOVE HER SO MUCH
YES
Rachael Baldwin IKR IM SO GAY FOR BARRETT WILBERT WEED
@@annalaramie8229 same though she is a freaking goddess
i had a heathers based birthday party.
so the balloons were the heathers
we had a black balloon to be jd
and then we had a blue balloon to be veronica
(the black balloon was too full of air is why this happened btw)
but the black balloon touched the floor, rolled right next to the blue one
and blew up.
it was hilarious and accurate
edit: holy shit this was written 3 years ago, i hope yall commenting "r/thathappened" understand that there were *many* balloons assigned to them and we wrote their names on their corresponding colors. there were like 50 balloons in total (bad for the environment i know) but that means that there were MULTIPLE jds and multiple veronicas. it just happened to roll up to a blue one when it popped. stop tryna take away 14 year old mes favorite birthday story yall >:( (this was written a year after the birthday party) you can literally ask anyone that was there (good luck finding them) we all lost our minds
Snow Drift21 XD OMG
I cried reading this
I'm crying 😂😂😂😂
XD
xdoubt
lifeboat should have been longer okay im *screaming*
also gayer ok
@Potato Fish I know, right! Even Duke gets a longer song in the West End.
"JD can't count"
HeLp
One... Two... Seventeen... Fuck it
Anafyral Weyferling I’m wheezing😂
Well that got deep
Shine a light is great to be because it's so bland. That's the point of the song. Just one big bland eveeything is cool and fake coaster of bullshit.
Love it.
Yeah, that's also my feeling about Dead Gay Son too. It''s describing the school ignoring the real problems for platitudes and "be nice to each other" bullshit. And suprise suprise, the popular kids come out on top. There's a reason they're not the resolution, but part of the rising action. They don't solve anything.
I find a lot of Broadway related channels just tear shows apart using opinions backed up with unsubstantial reasoning to seem 'edgy', but you speak of shows with educated criticism. I always highly enjoy your videos for this exact reason. Keep it up with the great videos!
+Annalisa Meisel Thank you!
Your point on Shine a Light, I feel like the fact that it feels so scripted/emotionless is kind of the point. Like, showing that the school is scripting this number because they "cared" so much, because in the end it's just a big event to promote their school and the teacher. It's a big thing that doesn't fully make sense but it makes sense. If that makes sense.
HeyIt'sLauren it's even more of a literal promotional event in the movie they should've got cameras out so we could have 1 moment of good quality film on a shitty song
The fact that you actually take time to look at the good and bad parts of the show while including humor instead of endless ranting about how terrible it is as if there are no highlights like other Broadway related channels is one of the reasons I love this channel. Also, congratulations! You deserve 5000 subscribers!
can they pls rewrite jd's character and make him scary bc people actually like him and like, ignore the fact that he's a horrible person and it grosses me out like he's literally a psychopath that tries to kill everyone including his gf and then tries to guilt trip her
lilac c Honestly, people like JD way too much. Like, as a character he's really interesting and I do like him, but he's an absolutely awful person and the relationship he has with Veronica is actually absuive.
In a way, he's kinda like Erik from Phantom of the Opera - he does terrible things, but even through that you can understand and empathise with the character, at least that's what they tried to do with the musical. In Phantom, his actions (while we can understand what led him to become that person) aren't justified at all with Christine even saying "It's in your soul where the true distortion lies." which is basically saying "You may have suffered for your deformity, but it is not your deformity that is making you suffer now - your actions are solely to blame for that."
With JD though, they kinda suggest that his 'tragic' past justifies his actions and make the audience like him too much.
Of course, you do get the impression in the musical that JD is beyond saving/changing, but I think I just prefer the treatment of his character in the film. He was genuinely scary and you can tell that (even though he was pretty fucked up in both the film and the musical) he really doesn't care for Veronica and, even if he does, he is basically just using her to meet his own ends and doesn't care if she gets hurt in the process or if she ends up dying.
I was actually really annoyed when my friend watched the film with me as well though...
My friend hates the film because JD dies in the end, she even said that everyone else deserves to die instead or at least Veronica deserves to die with him. That angered me a lot because it felt like she completely missed the point of the film as well as JD's character. She really wanted JD and Veronica to be together even though the relationship is incredibly abusive emotionally with JD manipulating Veronica and even trying to force himself on her at one point in the film. When Veronica burnt her hand, he used it to light his cigarette rather than checking if she was okay. He influenced her to kill and got her implicated in the murder of her 'friends'. He even tried to kill her.
Even with how fucked up he is in the film... There are still people that love him and know no ends whenit comes to justifying his actions. Even if the musical didn't try to humanise him so much, I feel like people would still be like that.
Perhaps that is the scariest part of all.
People never want to acknowledge toxic masculinity when they see it. It's easier to call the guy ~crazy~ and/or turn it into this thing about how he's ~so lost~ but his victim can ~save him~.
あいりん | Airin Well Duh Let Loose Dont Be Such A Critic About It
cam z
Yeah, his character is _interesting_ but I see people lusting over him and that's kind of not okay.
We stan a good physco
Okay but now....what are your thoughts on Be more chill? Also
DEAD GIRL WALKING
+Jenna Rhoads Personally...I think it's like, trash tier musical theater. But I'm hesitant to do a video on it because I don't necessarily enjoy just tearing something people like to shreds
Broadway Radical I personal don’t like the show itself I like the music in it
i love b mc musical so goddamn much
you're name reminds me Jenna Roland actually
but all seriousness i do hate the book... especially white michael
Broadway Radical ...to be honest that was a good call
Broadway Radical ...to be honest that was a good call
i clicked so damn fast. im actually auditioning for the highschool version of heathers so seeing you mention it, even briefly, was nice
+doddles Good luck!
GOOD LUCK!!
did you get the part? who are you auditioning for?
i haven’t auditioned yet, but i will be soon, i’ll be auditioning for heather m, but i’ll most likely just get ensemble.
yay I hope you get it Heather M is also my dream roll :3
Problem #1: ALL THE KEYS ARE TOO FUCKING HIGH JESUS CHRIST WHY IS EVERY SHOW WRITTEN FOR SCREAMING TENORS AND SHOUTING SOPRANOS
Thomas Sutherland Hamilton is really low for the men tho.
Heathers isn't even that high though. The Heathers (especially Heather C.) sing lower notes throughout the whole play. Kindergarten Boyfriend isn't low per say but it's not really a soprano song either. Shine a Light is also an alto song, it's just also had extensive notes. In fact, almost all of the female leads in Heathers are lower voiced except maybe Lifeboat. It's not like they're all Johanna from Sweeney Todd. There's a difference between a shouty soprano and a weak alto who lacks range and power.
as a screaming tenor I feel personally attacked
I’m a soprano 1 and I️ can tell you singing some of the songs without shifting the keys up is difficult
To me the movie, the message was "yeah high school can suck, but don't fall for it's trap. You can make it worse like a Heather, or you can be cynical and ostracize yourself like JD (killing aside) but both options are too easy. Almost nothing going on around you is as dramatic or important as it seems" but when all that is simplified into "Be Kind", you loose the nuance.
I actually really love the pro/con format you set up in this video! It takes the sting away from the negative comments for fans of the show while still offering up valid criticisms about it. Big fan of your channel btw
+chironeis thank you!
I agree with your opinion on "My Dead Gay Son". It doesn't really add anything to the musical
It takes a funny and clever line with layers of comedy and social commentary in the film and turns it into a four minute one note joke with no nuance that I stopped laughing at about fifteen seconds in. No thanks
And their funeral kind of has to be Veronica's shift. She sees the effects of her actions in the girl and the parents crying but you loose that with a big silly "Gay or European" rip off.
Silly Slacker Person I think it’s just filler
I don't know if it doesn't add anything to the musical, I agree it's one of the weaker songs in the musical, but it does serve a few purposes I think.
For starters, just as how Me Inside of Me and Shine a Light is used to demonstrate how everyone is using the death of someone else for their own selfish purposes and to canonise the dead as someone entirely different from what they were.
It's kind of the subtext in the film and the musical, the boys were grotesque rapey bastards, but now with JD planting the story that they killed themselves to hide their gay love from a misapproving world they become myth figures for hope and tolerance. One of the biggest themes in both the film and musical is delusion, especially self-delusion over people we're meant to care about. The truth is way less believable and attractive than fiction, which I think is also why Veronica falls for JD's bullshit "ich luge bullets" story, at this point she loves him so much she would rather believe murder isn't involved than poke very obvious holes in his story, everyone to some degree in this show wallows in self deception to a ridiculous degree, My Dead Gay Son is just yet another example of that.
Kurt and Ram are two of the most popular boys in school and yet their own fathers can't recognise a clearly bullshit story about them, everyone knows them but never made an effort to KNOW them really, which is extra ironic considering the funeral is about their family and friends coming to terms with not knowing they were apparently lovers and suicidal.
And for me the fact they are singing what are ultimately a string of stereotypes in the most well meaning way possible adds to that subtext, not only is it shown clearly that the dad's know nothing about gay life and acceptance and base their knowledge off stereotypes, it turns out they're not even really talking about their sons, they're projecting their own self-loathing, closeted gay relationship onto their sons.
They are using a bullshit conception of gay life and homophobia based on a clearly fake suicide note to move on with their own lives and address their problems, on the surface of the song that's shallow and somewhat uplifting, but when you look deeper into it it's actually kind of morbid and satirical, they upstage their own sons' funerals for god sake! And the show feels very concious of this. The audience is supposed to feel uncomfortable and incredulous about the song, because it is uncomfortable and incredulous and having a huge number dedicated to it draws attention to that.
And plot-wise it acts as further justification for JD to rationalise what he's doing, he even makes the argument directly to Veronica after the song. He claims that the reaction to Kurt and Ram's death by their fathers proves that he's actually doing a good thing, as he sees it two total dickheads get canonised as tragic heroes and their fathers can live their lives happily as gay men, something they may never have considered if the funeral had not happened.
Part of the joke of Shine a Light and Me Inside of Me is that nothing really changes when people die, a new head Heather emerges, high school is still hell, everyone is still self absorbed and makes it about themselves, life goes on etc. But here the revelation that Kurt and Ram's dads have been lovers and will commit to helping to gain acceptance of gay men after the deaths of their sons, although somewhat shallow and unintentionally offensive, is a drastic and honorable change for them. And JD cynically latches onto that to argue that he's murdering for the good of mankind and made a real positive difference by fulfilling his selfish need for revenge.
And that's the moment when Veronica really starts to fear JD and instantly see through all his bullshit, and JD firmly rockets into a downward spiral as a serial killer, without this moment I'm not sure how that would have progressed that fast.
That's my two cents defence of this song anyway.
Silly Slacker Person *i actually like the song because of the beat and stuff but kinda pissed cause it doesnt add anything to the musical. But it still delights me during that part so fuck me right? (with a chainsaw? I dunno)*
Unpopular Opinion:
I love JD, in both the movie and the musical. To me he's honestly a really interesting character, and has a bunch of layers to him than just crazy psychopath. (I mean he totally is one but he's got other aspects to him that are intriguing.)
+Gandalf The Grey Yeah I think he's a great character just like, not a great person obviously haha
Gandalf The Grey
Not really any unpopular opinion though(Not ment to offend or anything), I do agree.
He has layers?
I guess idk, I'm probably just being dumb
The Patriarchy at least 2 including the trench coat
Honestly, I love the musical, but I think that the movie is far superior. The movie isn't like, "Wow, there's actually hope in this damned situation!" Rather it's like, "Let's all suffer until we die!" Not to mention that the movie has this gigantic subliminal commentary on society.
IsrafelScarletRaven to be honest I think the two are too different to compare, although that probably sounds ridiculous. I think they were going for a different path, one of which suits a film better and the other the musical better!
IsrafelScarletRaven agreed 100%
My friend who watched the musical before the movie likes the musical more because JD is more "Believable and humanized. He seems like he actually loves veronica" which I feel like completely missed the point of the originally movie with is that JD DIDNT love veronica, he was totally using her cause she was popular and he could easily manipulate her to basically murder people with him. HE WAS A SOCIOPATH. I love the movie so much more than the musical, and I love the musical a lot.
I definitely like the changes they made for the musical, it's better to have Martha be the friend she left behind instead of some other random pretty girl. And the movie never addresses how Veronica joins the Heathers, she's just there but not truly belonging and you don't quite understand why or when she joined a super popular clique.
I love both but vastly prefer the musical, and I still see JD as scum in the musical. I guess the humanizing didn't really work on me.
I like the newspaper idea but I always interpreted JD's line about planting a school-wide suicide note (in musical canon, not movie canon, where he's more meticulous about things and I think there are some huge characterization differences--notably musical-Veronica being more sympathetic/innocent) as a sign of him going off the deep end, with his whole terrorist plan being poorly thought out and impulsively executed (lolpun). I really feel like he was just applying his previous murder-methods on a larger scale and hoping for the same positive results as before regardless of the practicality of it. If he'd succeeded in his plan, I think he would just have left the note somewhere where it would have gotten burned up in the end, or discarded or w/e. :/
Maybe he'd at least laminate it and hope for the best? I just picture him putting a sticky note on top of the burning rubble at the end, all ":D the cops will believe this!"
and the cops absolutely would
Spray paint it into the lawn
Yess thats such a big part in the movie, esp in the bathtub hallucination scene thing with heather duke, when He lashes out. He just wrote "life sucks" as the note and was like "haha this is great" and honestly it was great bc it really contributed to the fact that he was truly losing it and becoming more and more of a physcopath as he carried out with the events in the movie and his relationship with Veronica deteriorated. Aah
Even with all the movie comparisons you still somehow left out my biggest problem with the musical when compared to the movie: the fact that Heather Duke is seriously down played in the musical. The Movie makes it very clear that duke is the bullied, bottom of the totem poll, potentially friendly, Heather - making her transfer to villain both more powerful and understandable.
There is a line in the musical where veronica tells the Heather Chandler in her head to shut up and then Duke says "No, I don't have to shut up anymore" and proceeds to put on the scrunchie. The problem is, that line makes way more sense with the arc she got in the movie, but that was mostly omitted from the musical - yes - she was told to shut up a lot - but Duke was not once nice or even a little sympathetic before she becomes a villain, lessening the impact.
Okay - now that I'm done with the Duke rant - I think your ideas on JD are spot on, they nerfed his psychopathicness in order to make him more sympathetic. It makes everything less eerie, and gives Veronica someone she can feel safe with, somewhat - which is never a feeling you get in the movie.
They accidently nerfed Duke's likeability when trying to "buff" JD's.
The part about looking at Barrett Wilbert Weed's face was a nice part, I enjoyed that. God I love her.
I love how your just crushing on Barrett the whole time and it’s adorable
Main sin: Heathers as a musical is just an unironic version of what the film made fun of
thats some major truth
Why? Can you please explain how?
I agree with your opinions on Heathers. I love the musical so much but it lacks the deeper meaning that the movie has. It's still one of my favorite though!
Can we just focus on the fact that Ryan McCartan is on Disney Channel? seriously, look it up, he's on Liv and Maddie
cupcake universe it kinda killed the character of jd to me tbh (aha puns)
cupcake universe and he's a shit bag of a person
Can we appreciate the fact tho that
He played Diggy on L&M and now is on heathers
The actress who played willow is on On my block and was on how to get away w murder
And dove cameron is still on disney pretty sure
F for her
How did the cops in this town conclude that Kurt and Ram committed sucide if JD kept his gun?
Flame Heart I mean the cops are idiots
Mineral water
Suicide note maybe
You dont need 2 gun to kill 2 people
He got the gun back later he has 5 on his person at all times
And musical JD shot them with 1 gun anyway
Barret Wilbert Weed....is a goddess.
I was already thoroughly enjoying, and agreeing with (almost) everything in this video, and then I got to the part about the vowel on the E5 in "Kiiiiindergarden" and was like, why don't more composers understand this??? Also, dead girl walking is definitely allllll about consent and turning rape culture on its head: in the staging, in the lyrics, in the way JD says "ouch," which is a line usually reserved for the girl. And, I think they address the whole Veronica-only-learns-the-lesson thing with that line in the finale, something about she can't promise no more heathers or high school.Thank you for putting into words why I haven't been able to really get into Shine a Light or Dead Gay Son. Okay, I'm done now.
Yes, I haven't seen the original movie yet, but I watched the musical, and have seen a ton of different animatic versions of that song, and I always can't help but scratch my head and wonder if that doesn't somewhat cross the line into borderline rape territory. He does technically consent, but she sort of doesn't give him a whole lot of choice, short of physically stopping her from going any further...
I like listening to other people’s view on pieces of music I like so that I can appreciate it a bit more
Ok I absolutely love Kindergarten Boyfriend but FUCK you are so painfully right about that damn vowel XD
This is a phenomenal video. Keep it up, my dude.
I actually chose this musical as the subject for a speaking exam I had in English and I just analysed mental health in this and the media in general and I love heathers analysis I want to write a book
I feel like “shine a light” is supposed to be bland and create no emotional connection to highlight the disconnect between Fleming and the students and how even though she may have some good intentions she doesn’t truly understand them
DO WE HAVE A PROBLEM HERE?!?
DO YOU HAVE A BONE TO PICK?!?
YOU'VE COME SO FAR
WHY NOW ARE YOU PULLING ON MY.......
STICK
Pickle Rick.
Megan Cramer you are an amazing person.
Are we gonna have a problem?
dIcK
i have a question... What do you think about the Spongebob Squarepants
MUSICAL
ik theres one
but im really ashamed because
i love it
+BoredwithUA-cam_ I haven't heard it but I'm sure it's...very
Broadway Radical it's certainly very
Wtf
What happened to heather duke liking books like in the first part of the movie? Did they decide “oh heather macnamara wanted to commit suicide her personality is WAY more important then heather duke! Let’s just replace her cute, book reading self from the first part of the movie with her bitchy self from the other part of the movie! In fact, let’s just leave in the fact she has bulimia and make her as one dimensional as possible!”
BoredwithUA-cam_ i
1:45 I don't believe that because he sneaks into Veronica's house during the musical too. The song is: Meant to be Yours
I can't believe you didn't mention how it was messed up that none of the adults could pickup on it. Especially when JD blows himself up. Seriously?! You walk away from an explosion and very few people notice?!
my thumb pressed the notif buttom so goddamn hard and fast JD blew up my phone.
BoredwithUA-cam_ Fast and hard ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
I’m sorry for having ever been born
Moon Moon Jared wtf u doing heere??
BoredwithUA-cam_ What would I not be doing -Heere- here? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
@@mel5135 XD OH BOY
i find Veronica being more independant from the start detracts from the character development in the movie. she goes from being the sterotypical 80's girl who needs a strong lover to being a stronger person than the rest of the school who doesn't need no knight in shining armour
Fun fact: the high school song replacing blue is actually used instead of blue in the west end version
Sin: having better suicide notes than the movie
Sin: everyone as a whole is a better person
Virtue: the period and oh my god when Heather dies
Sin: JD doesnt go crazy well enough
Sin: JD in Seventeen doesnt sound like JD
Sin: Our Love Is God takes a memorable film line and mixes it in with another bit so I can't remember it on command, 4 memorable notes put in so it's the only thing I do remember, and taking out "let's go get a slushie" which is very important too
Sin: chaos is what killed the dinosaurs darling is absent and is replaced with sap
Sin: romance
My local theatre company did the school version of Heathers and the girl who played Martha was skinny, which, as a plus-sized person, made me deeply angry. I wasn't able to audition for the show, but, allegedly, the director justified a skinny girl playing one of the few somewhat respectable plus-sized roles in musical theatre was that popular girls were extremely vicious in the 80s, and would call anyone fat. ...so, y'know, add that to list of things wrong with Heathers?
Mikayla Jacobs but should a plus size actor have gotten it simply because they are plus size?
Zach T I mean no, but it's called type casting. Certain roles are traditionally played by certain kinds of people. If a director casted a white girl as Dorothy in The Wiz when there was a black girl that was equally as good I'd be scratching my head. I'd be equally as confused if director cast a boy as Peter Pan unless he was absolutely perfect. Also there are plenty of roles for skinny, traditionally pretty, soprano white girls in musical theatre. If there was a plus-size girl that fit the part why not let her have it this one time?
Random Person Yeah, I mean, I understand that. I personally didn't audition for the show, and I didn't intend for my comment to sound as salty as it does. Whoops.
Zach T Yeah, I agree 100%. I guess it just kind of made me sad that there were no plus-sized people that auditioned, or that were good enough to earn the part. I was interning with that theatre company while auditions were going on, so I don't know how many people auditioned. But idk. I definitely understand what you're saying.
If it's a school play, the options are limited so calm down...
5:41 I was seriously laughing at that for the rest of the video
I also agree with what you said in this video, me watching both the movie and the show. Another thing is in "Meant To Be Yours", pretty much nothing rhymes XD
+Spiritflight Personally It's a sin if you rhyme too much so I don't mind Meant to be yours
Spiritflight ehhh it all rhymes. "And so I built a *bomb*; tonight our school is *Vietnam*"
"Sure you're scared, I've been *there*. I can set you free! Veronica, don't make me come in *there*"
""You left me and I fell apart. For that, you should be *dead*. ButButBut, then it hit me like a flash: what if high school went away *instead*?"
Alexander Hamilton isn't it "You chucked me out like I was trash" for that bit, which he is?
3:07 And it’s not, like, offensive... except to *taste.*
BRO- GO OFF, I SUPPORT YOU 😂
I always skip that song, when I listen to the whole thing
i’m a simple woman i see a person who likes barrett as much as me then i sub to them
you explained exactly my feelings on "I love my dead gay son"....everytime i listen to the soundtrack i skip that song
i legitimately hate it
I like it .w. It makes me laugh, and he's a good singer, I feel like Ram and Kurt needed an afterlife song just like Heather with Me inside of Me, without it we kinda would just forget about Ram and Kurt
Okay but Barrett not being my girlfriend is actually a pretty big sin. Plus I agree with your points so much ?????? I subscribed instantly.
i’d just like to comment on your question abt kurt and rams suicide note. what veronica thought was gonna happen was they were gonna be passed out and the police found the suicide note and word got out at school so the boys come into school not passed out the next day and they’re unpopular
when you're mad because you don't know if the movie or musical is better
on one hand, Christian Slater pulls of insane and psychopath like nobody's buisness
but on the other hand, the musical has songs
The CinemaSins for musical theatre? I've found my home
I think the appealing behind jd is mostly "what kind of person he would have been if he hadn't gotten fucked up and exploded", in addition to the whole angsty teen rebel thing.
iunno i liked to think of him (and in fact the whole play) as a example of why we need to pay closer attention to mental health in school, although its not stated as such in the story itself.
Saw the title started freaking the f out I’m obsessed with heathers.
Ok but this is great not just for content but also it supplied me with so many good Heathers memes. SO MANY MEEMESS
“Everything wrong with Heathers: Barrett Wilbert Weed is... not my girlfriend”
Me. Just me
Your obvious love for this musical earned my subscribe my good man
Heathers kind of captures what school is like when a student dies, however shine a light reprise is not very realistic, students may feel suicidal after what happened, but students don't bully each other about missing them.
What nice little school you goin to?
I don't mean to be angry with that, it's just... Idk man, people /will/ make fun of you for grieving about 65% of the time.
Okay FIRST OF ALL shine a light reprise isn't actually in reality, it's all in heather mac's head. Her mind is in a state of anxiety and it's taking the form of heather duke. Second of all, Heather Duke is picking on people because Heather Chandler was horrible to her. Third of all, Heather Duke would've been mad since Heather Mac called her out on live tv.
In my town, one kid at another school committed suicide, and people at my school kept making jokes about it. Then one senior had a speech about mental health and admitted to nearly killing himself. People also made fun of him, people are assholes. It's sadly not that unrealistic.
@@cj-pe5mj
Damn ok I didn't realise how different it is in other schools. Jesus christ I'm sorry that's awful
A lot of these are legit points I've made
My school (high school) is doing heathers as our spring musical and our school will be the first one in our state to do heathers. I’m real excited.
"The low brass on meant to be yours."
Honey...
That's a reed instrument
It's a woodwind
+Süß Socke you right
I think jd being on the fringes of the school is what in the musical stops him from being murderous to begin with. When he finds veronica, who also hates the schools hierarchy, I think she becomes justification in his mind for his feelings/plans. I thought his obsession with veronica and how he puts her on a pedestal was supposed to mirror what the school does with the heathers.
This was so good.
I love heathers I really do but I'm performing in it now and the script is written so weirdly there's a point where the scene is supposed to be in veronicas room yet the script says faculty is in the scene and the music sheets are written extremely weird as well during the sitzprobe we had to fix the music so that was fun
J.D. is supposed to be the character you feel is the sanity in the craziness. But we slowly see over the course of the musical that he can’t be trusted whatsoever. But we can see in “Meant to be yours” that whatever he does he still loves Veronica. So we see him switch back and forth from evil J.D. to loving J.D. and in the end her “suicide” tips him over the edge. It’s nice he’s not just an evil prick, but rather a more complex character who has different sides of his personality.
6:27 I've thought about this overtime I've seen any version of Heathers. My theory is that either she, deep down, actually wants them to be killed...or she just isn't that bright.
Allison x I think she was so blindsided and enamored with him that she would ignore the obvious that "if" they woke up, Kurt and Ram would have seen them shoot them. There is no possible way it makes sense to Veronica.
you need some chili fries
That last part you said about Heathers is quite true. Nobody else really knew what JD was about to do so nobody but Veronica can really learn from it
you missed my least favourite miniscule plot sin - aka veronica, who assumes kurt and ram will wake up HOURS later, because of the 'ich lug' bullets, immediately going "you're just unconscious right?" like yeah, veronica, hell wake up because you ask him if he's unconscious and also him waking up totally wouldn't ruin ur plan
One thing I always thought of, would Veronica not get exposed somehow with her involvement with JD or any of the murders. Like, they don't question how they hear a huge explosion and then seeing Veronica right after covered in ash and dirt. I feel like there would be some deep investigation on everything, considering all of the murders happening and then her seeming involved in the explosion, also as JD seems to have just...disappeared..after the explosion. I feel like considering an investigation JD's background and such, police would then trace it to her as basically she's the only person really involved with him. I know it's just a movie/musical and it's not necessary supposed to be the most realistic, but I just always wondering what would happen if police and investigators would've really got into it and finally traced it to Veronica and JD.
I’ve come here to say nothing will ever be wrong with heathers for me
Love this video,totally subscribing and just yessss💕🙌🏻✨
There is nothing wrong with making a villain more sympathetic than they were if it serves the story well. Same with making a villain less sympathetic. This musical does both. No need to pick on the one that got the former treatment.
Also the musical fails to make sure the audience knows that suicide isn't a good thing to do. Like I know that sounds stupid but seriously you can't bet on every member of your audience understanding something unless you somehow show them it, and not just sub textually. The song Kindergarden Boyfriend especially doesn't make clear that Martha jumping is a definitely bad thing that won't solve her problems. The song is written like any ballad and relies on the lyrics only to suggest that this is suicide she's talking about, and relies purely on the audience to decide that that is a very bad thing. It desperately needs some counter in the music to show the audience that this action is one that comes out of deep sadness and confusion. In my Opinion.
Okay I almost screamed when you mentioned the high school version of the musical, because it was made by a high school in my school district (JJ Pearce HS), I remember when all the theatre kids at my school got to go see a showing of it on a field trip and I was so jealous
@ 4:46 to the left of barrett i think is christian slater who played jd in the movie
1:54 Literally me talking to someone who shares the same love for heathers, as myself
Honestly I loved the musicals representation of JD he was actually given a personality beside the psycho kid, not to mention the romance between them makes more sense instead of her being like “ he shot two guys with blanks let me date him anyways because YOLO “ it was like “ fighting douche bangs that super hot” it just is a little more plausible, and honestly my favorite part is that I liked them together until it is made clear he is not sane and even after that i still felt they should be together forever until it is made impossible for them to be together . Sorry I just really like this musical
.... plus can we talk about the line
“My date kinda blew....... me off”
Because I fucking love that line
Also add the JD suicide sin back on because he clearly sings in Meant To Be Yours: “In the rubble of their tomb, we’ll plant this note explaining why they died,”
I LOVE YOU FOR DOING THIS AND YES I LOVE BARRETT WILBERT WEED TOO BUT IM BAD AT SINGING
I need a link to the high school replacement of the blue song
Nicole Marly same
Omg so early! 4th comment! Ok but this video was great and totally mirrored my thoughts about heathers.
I feel like seeing JD's character really made me understand what those type of people go through. Anger, Sociopathy, Psychopathy, it all comes from root of pain.
I thought the reason for putting the high note kinda off in Kindergarden is because it feels a little off to us. Like, we hear it so rarely sung on that note, that it sounds off and kinda weird, which is how most teenagers would react to Martha, but it's really, really hard to sing and requires a lot of training, showing a depth if you're willing to listen.
The plot line is so different from the movie. It’s like u watch the movie back wards high and drunk then wright a musical on it
6:34 in the movie, j.d. said that once they were found and saw the suicide note, "they'll both be laughing stocks." to quote the musical. of course, he wasn't using ich luge bullets (or if he was, he shot in the wrong place), as kurt and ram died.
In the movie, he asks if she knows German before talking about the bullets, because he's saying that they are "I'm lying" bullets.
There's no low brass, the low voices of the pit is comprised of bari sax, bass guitar, left hand piano, and sometimes tenor sax. That fat round bari sax sound on the low A is incredible though
Honestly I like how JD is dark and dead inside because I can relate to him. But not the serial killer part😂😂
I'm so grateful I just found your channel
+Sarah and the vintage books aw thanks friend
I actually adore Shine A Light because its purpose was to be ironic, and that shined through *keh keh* when the dark reprise of it played shortly after.
so i recently found out that the guy who plays JD is also Diggie from the show Liv and Maddie and i loved that show as a kid and its...really unnerving
Yes yes Y E S
I clicked on this and I don't know what I was expecting but you exceeded that.
Bravo.
I love how you put fragments of Ryan singing over clips of Dan in de musical xD
The cheesyness and ineffectiveness of the message actually seems like a bit of brilliant irony, considering Shine A Light, which is all about how cheesy and ineffective what's going on is.
Ok so honestly I absolutely adore JD, like, he's an absolutely awful person but he has a bit of depth to him and I like that?
And I also like the fact that he's not terrible when you first meet him, because real psychopaths/ Sociopaths don't seem bad at first? Like, they seem like other people, and you really can't tell they're messed up until later? I like the hints they drop that maybe he's screwy- like in 'Freeze your Brain' you can sorta tell something is off and I love it to be honest!
Yea i felt like its kinda important to show that not all bad people are obviously bad. Some can be really good at hiding it, so you gotta be careful.
Yes, especially since it wasn't his fault! It was his passed, Just like most depth filled hot looking killers. 😂
Chaos is what killed the dinosaurs darling
8:12
"without Veronica having addressed the root cause of unkindness her wish for a better school will go nowhere. And that's a problem none of the characters recognize. Not J.D."
See, that's the redeeming factor about J.D. He's the extremely edgy pessimist to the wishy-washy optimism of the school. He even has a very straightforward plan to take care of the root cause of unkindness. It's just that he's identified that root cause as the school and everyone in it.
"it's really important to me that jd is creepy" yes. just, yes. i love lifeboat so much. it's my favorite song in the entire musical!
The one part i love about the whole movie is when "Yo girl" ends with "GET OUT MY HOUSE"
I've watched the heathers movie and J.D. Is fricking creepy as hell. Totally prefer the musical in general and JD the character better in the musical!
Marina Diaz that’s kind of the point he’s making. JD isn’t SUPPOSED to be likeable, he’s a murderer. Which is why the movie is better (in terms of accuracy of JD’s character) imo
Sydney Alpers I don't like the suicidal characters are jerks. Sorry I have a real messed up friend group and only one of them is an ass. Others might be jerks and don't mean to. That's why I like JD from the musical better. They gave him a filter.
Marina Diaz personally I don't like how the musical handled his character. To me it's like they were trying to make excuses for his actions despite what he's doing is seriously wrong. They also tried to portray him as being in love with Veronica which doesn't make a whole lot of sense imo considering he's a sociopath. At least a that's how he's in he movie. The musical is trying to romanticize their relationship even though it's unhealthy and messed up. Musical J.D feels like a "fan fiction" version of himself. Don't get me wrong, I love the musical, but it has flaws
The best JD songs are the ones where he's yelly and batshit and also freeze your brain
Shah Nawaz Ghauri I see what you’re saying and I respect your opinion but I disagree with your point that sociopaths can feel love. A sociopath is defined as someone with a lack of emotion, remorse, sensitivity...if he is a sociopath then it would be highly unlikely for him to love Veronica, or at least to the sane extent as he does in the musical.