Thanks for stopping by everyone! This is the second video of a three-part series I've teamed up with Hyundai on, covering the engineering of the Veloster N! Easy to agree on when I drove the car back in 2018 and loved it. Here are related videos if anyone's interested in more: *Videos That Are Not Sponsored:* Veloster N Review - ua-cam.com/video/6BVEhLBj7MQ/v-deo.html Nurburgring Lap, Veloster N - ua-cam.com/video/W7ZfO5E-jiE/v-deo.html How Veloster N's Anti-Lag Works - ua-cam.com/video/ccMg-KzMgU8/v-deo.html How Exhaust Crackles Work - ua-cam.com/video/64YzCty-27Y/v-deo.html *Sponsored 3-Part Series:* Part 1 - DCT vs Manual - What's the difference? ua-cam.com/video/oQQ3nfIf6EE/v-deo.html Part 2 - This video! Part 3 - Coming December 23, dives into Veloster N DCT features!
IMHO the problem with front-wheel drive is when driving on the limit any increase in power induces understeer which limits the cornering speed on the way out and you cant get on the power as hard either which is the main issue with acceleration on an FWD.... Having to wait that bit longer to get the power on compared to a similar sport RWD as opposed to wheel spin in a straight line. The other big performance handling issue with FWD is that you can't induce oversteer with the throttle.
Hey man, love your videos! Not sure if you made one already but I was wondering whenever you’re free if you can make a video that explains why the torque curve on a torque/hp vs. rpm graph falls back down after it peaks at a certain rpm. Just a phenomenon that im having trouble wrapping my head around. Would appreciate it a lot!
Hyundai has come to be one of my favourite car brands. I love the styling and features of the Veloster Turbo and Veloster N Line, as well as the Elantra N Line. Speaking of which, I'd like to see a video or two covering the Elantra N Line.
with modern E-diffs and traction assistants, they can be a BLAST to drive. For me, throw some good tires, and a rear sway bar upgrade and thrash! I also think you can have fun in pretty much any car, so what do I know. Okay back to fixing a Turbo R32 that wont start. :)
I added a modest rear bar to a Mazda6, 18mm to 21, and huge improvement from severe understeer. Huge rear bars defeat rear independent suspension, and can be dangerous in bad weather, unless driver knows better. I used a suspension book by engineer Fred Puhn to determine weight transfer bias to help decide what diameter to use.
"Are Front Wheel Drive Sports Cars Any Good?" - as a Brit this is a strange question to ask as I've grown up with incredible hot hatches from the first Golf GTI onwards that are amazing fun to drive.
American enthusiasts (probably others also) can be a little..... contentious when it comes to how people classify cars. Personally, I’m with you, and if my GTI wasn’t a sports car from the start it certainly is now after all the small modifications I’ve made to it to remove slop from the steering and brakes.
@@valerierodger7700 Yeah nah, Americans like well handling cars but we prefer RWD because we don't have any car restrictions on our license so why settle?
People are far more concerned with where to put a super sized Coke, without worrying about it spilling, a cell phone holder in easy reach, and smooth ride, and the ability to measure your dick via acceleration in a straight line. Just look at any car review and listen to how often they talk about roll races and not having enough cup holders.
@@telelaci2 we aren't all like that, I personally love hot hatches (drive a mini gp3) and want a supercharged r53 next. Do I like driving V8 Chargers? Yes but I much prefer my Mini for flying down backroads. Overall hot hatches are just more fun for me.
Still cracking up daily when someone advertises their new "powerfull" car and it has like 170-210hp. You are 25 years late with powerfull bruh. Anything under that is horrible anyway.
An interesting perspective but I couldn't disagree more. From my view, sportscars and spirited driving are about the way you experience the drive; the sounds, the sights (of the car and the scenery etc), the overall way it makes you feel. While most new cars are no doubt better in most/all quantifiable measures than older sportscars, they've reached a level of insulation from the driving experience that they've become appliances on wheels.
tbh i've yet to even attain a car myself, but i just don't like the aspect that sports car nowadays just sort of blend in, like they're not something far from a family car. and in terms of feel, idk but as far as i've understood from Best Motoring, they just feel the same as a standard car and they don't have that character unless you're in a race track or in race mode.
I think the Honda Integra Type R DC2 is the best example of a true FWD sports car. From the factory the suspension was set up to allow for a hint of oversteer which made the car feel a lot more lively during cornering and helped reduce understeer.
FWD performance cars are a case of "if you can't be with the one you love, love the one you with"..... if someone got a blank check and sheet of paper to design their ultimate performance car nobody would do a FWD economy car. That's not to say they can't be good... they're just a compromise.
@@X8X8X8X8X8X8X8X8X8X there are degrees of compromise. In the context of driving fun a FWD hot hatch is a bigger compromise than a mid engine sports car.
@@future62 compromise requires a direction and intended goal, and what someone is willing to do to achieve that goal. That can be cost, practicality, safety etc.
He's the man! I had many great conversations with him in Germany, and he taught me about the N's anti-lag system: ua-cam.com/video/ccMg-KzMgU8/v-deo.html
I STRONGLY DISAGREE! Being as famous as I am on UA-cam, I know that it gets hard to read every comment I get. I try my best, but I am just so famous, that I can't do it much longer. Sorry, dear tom
@@jackd1582 my 2013 ST didn't have a single failure during the 6 years and 150k miles that I put on it. 60k of those miles were with the FRPP tune. Only reason I got rid of it was to get a Focus RS, which has also been reliable.
Probably depends on your definition of "sport" and "good". I personally believe that a 2600 lbs Integra is in some respects sportier than a 3200 lbs Lexus (or a 3500 lbs Subaru). I can only imagine how sporty a 2900 lbs Polo/S1 is, but will probably never know.
@@Nordlicht05 No, most don't. The vast majority of people drive a sporty or powerful car just as they do any other... because after a while it becomes a bit boring, and chasing those thrills means driving ever faster. Ego driven males, those self proclaimed expert drivers who see speed as the only goal, are usually the ones who do that. They usually find the limits of their car the hard way, with an insurance claim and a big bill. And yes, I've owned several sports cars, but never had an accident or a speeding ticket.
In addition to FWD, the other thing I dislike about that type of car is the 'shift by cable' system. They are mushy, soft and feel like an arcade game. All that is why I like the Subaru BRZ so much! If the're hell bent on using a 'trans-axle', put the whole shebang in the rear! Even with a mushy gear shift system it would still be a proper sports car. 8) Honda, are you listening? 8) The Gold Wing has a flat 6 and side radiators (hint hint) 8) JMHO --gary
The type r is a different animal, I heard they are amazing, I wasn't willing to pay the difference 100 more hp and crazy areo, throttle house did a great video si vs veloster as well as type r
Sports cars are about sports. If a car is designed with lightweight and minimal weight transfer in mind, then it will work well in racing with minimal modification. That is a sports car. If you overcome excess weight with horsepower then you have a muscle car. If the styling and top speed takes precedence over practicality then you have a supercar.
Ford basically killed me as a customer by killing off their car line. I've 6 ford's off the top of my head, and I'm in the market right now, and I can't see myself in a Mustang.
Everyone will hate me for this, but let's go: 1_ Front wheel drive favors regenerative braking. The weight shift towards the front axle during braking means the front wheels can receive higher braking torque, permitting higher regeneration power, and higher energy efficiency. 2_ Steering or driving an axle makes it way more expensive to manufacture than an axle that is neither driven nor steered. However, driving the front wheels will cost only marginally more than just steering them, while driving the rear wheels through anything but a live axle will cost as much as or maybe more than a complete front wheel drive suspension. 3_ Rear wheel drive is only necessary when, due to the power level, it is critical to use the weight shift to the rear axle during acceleration in order to provide better traction. 4_ Torque steer is caused by driveline asymmetry and suspension geometry (when the traction makes the wheels toe in too much and then a minor weight shift chooses one side to runaway to); but depending on power level, when the asymmetry gets sorted out, the geometry doesn't need to; just look at Subaru cars.
Well after riding in a Type R I was sold on the drivetrain , it’s also worth taking note that the chief engineer behind the Veloster N was a 30+ year vet from BMW’s M division
I absolutely love my Veloster N!! It brings back joy to driving that I'd lost with a dull GTI. The cockpit feel, the road feel, the feedback, the crackles and pops, the hum of the exhaust when accelerating(especially during hard acceleration), and the lower sporty feel!!! The GTI is great at so many things, but it doesn't have the sporty joy you get when driving a Veloster N.
Actually it depends , the '' normal'' TTs are FWD , the '' quattro'' one are still FWD , but when the front slips , it engages the rear wheels through a differential from what i know ...
Great stuff. I love FWD. I have to correct you on one very common misconception, though. Many people think that the front wheels (in FWD, RWD, and 4WD) are "responsible" for rotating the car. This is just not true. Yes, when you're turning in, you have to impart a yaw rate to the vehicle, and this requires that you generate more lateral force from the fronts than from the rears. But that's not the end of the story. When you're exiting the corner, you have to stop that yaw rate, and that requires more lateral force from the rears. This is why it's so easy to oversteer on exit in RWD. As you start unwinding the steering, the fronts reduce their slip angle immediately, while the rears take a while to catch up; this lag is what kills the yaw rotation, and you have to wait for it before you feed power to the rears. So driving the front wheels does not in itself demand "too much" from the front wheels. FWD asks the fronts to both impart yaw rate and brake on entry (not being able to use engine braking to effectively throw the brake bias rearward). RWD asks the rears to both accelerate and kill yaw rate on exit. The extra demand on the fronts is really the result of the forward CG nearly all FWD cars have. Likewise, it has taken Porsche's brilliant engineers decades to pacify the tail-heavy 911's over-worked rears on exit. Perhaps the best thing about FWD is simply that it's a different driving skill from RWD. If you've been racing RWD for a while and have it pretty much all figured out, you can hop into a FWD and have the delight of getting to know a vehicle that has a very different set of strengths and weaknesses.
You and Thestraightpipes coverage of this the Veloster N led me to the purchase of my first brand new car!!! I have a blast driving the Bridge Ridge Parkway every chance I get in my N!!
Looking to purchase a new car this next year to replace my WRX. Considering the Kona N if it has a manual transmission. Yes, I know it's slower but I still enjoy the pleasure of that left pedal. Owned a '85 CRX Si , FWD can be fun.
I love my Veloster N and have had it for almost a year now. It is by far the best car I have owned. I've driven rear wheel drive cars a lot less confidence inspiring than my car even though it is only FWD.
I grew up with rear wheel performance vehicles and always considered FWD as something that came with low performance budget cars. With a genuine need for a budget car I got a 5th generation Ford Fiesta when they were new to the market and to my surprise I found the handling of this vehicle to be beyond belief and certainly found that it could hold its own compared to way more expensive sports cars. When the 6th generation Fiesta became available I bought one of those and likewise also very impressed by the overall roadholding. When the 6th generation Fiesta ST became available I bought one of those and I still have this as my daily driver. I would consider the 7th generation ST but I live in a part of the world that doesn't have this option. I recently bought my wife a BRZ which I get to drive and this has been a reality check for me... I do think that it is possible to have a good performance FWD sports car however a purpose built RWD sports car will always be the best in the end. This being said - I don't think much about most of the vehicles available these days. It seems like most manufacturers are moving towards making vehicles that provide as much isolation from the driving experience as possible. This thinking seems to of been adopted by all manufacturers - even the ones who once knew how to build exciting sports sedans (BWW M series). Still there are a few great vehicles that are designed around the driving experience - the MX5 and the 86 are in my opinion two of the very best 👍
I remember seeing a civic on best motoring cornering so fast that the back end was just sliding around, just being dragged around like a water skier with the front end just hooking in and yanking the car around them corners. Looked fun as hell
Nice evaluation Jason. I remember in the 40s (yes, I’m an OLD guy), there was still debate on RWD vs. FWD. The FWD (Cord) will “pull you around the corner, making handling better, easier. We’ve come a long way since then. After years of Corvette ownership, I’ve come to the conclusion I prefer AWD.
I respect your opinion and your insight. I have driven some fun fwd cars, the GTI and Mini Cooper S as examples that retain the enjoyment of driving. I imagine the Hyundai is a similar experience. That said, I really love having input control over all 4 wheels. “Steering with the throttle” - including on daily driving. Accelerating out of a right hand turn for example. You can get more rotation with more throttle input - you’re controlling all 4 wheels. I similarly enjoy awd vehicles - not the pretend ones that are mostly fwd and send power to rear wheels when slip is detected. My daily driver is an STi hatch. My weekend car is a Mustang GT. And I’ve owned a few Miatas over the years - along with other cars - and there’s just something about that “pure” first gen Miata driving experience. But yes, a fwd car can be fun. But an awd version of that same car (Golf R, for example) would be my preference. I hate understeer. I enjoy oversteer. And truth be told, most awd cars from the factory are set up to understeer. I have my STi dialed in decently, but it will never have the turn in of any of my rwd cars I’ve owned.
Great video, well balanced, unbiased & informative! I've just bought a 2008 Civic Type R, 6 speed manual, revs to 8400 rpm & is so much fun to throw into a corner! :)
I'm always impressed by what manufacturers have done in the affordable car market with front-wheel drive. If you look at the top offerings in the sport segment from Honda, Mazda, and now Hyundai, great strides have been made on the engineering side of things. In the late '80s, Dodge campaigned two Dodge Daytonas in IMSA GTU (under 3.0 liters). The Archer brothers ran the racing program and drove the cars. One car was front-wheel drive (the only one in GTU as far I recall), the other was conventional rear-wheel drive. It was an engineering exercise to learn some things under harsh racing conditions on how to maximize front drive handling, braking, and tire management.
I have a manual '20 Veloster N and LOVE this car! I should confess that both my wife and I have a silly grin on our faces every single time the engine starts and the pops and crackles appeared, or while cornering hardly on twisty roads - I can't tell you how many times I deliberately picked the route with as many switchbacks as possible just to enjoy driving it a bit more. A friend of mine, who has an '18 Focus RS, has been impressed by this car, too. In fact, the only two features I'm somewhat missing are AWD and heated seats - other than that, I have no complaints, regrets, or qualms whatsoever. I think Hyundai did an amazing job of creating fun and driver-centered car on a budget. P.S. I test-drove Type R and WRX as well, and those are undoubtedly great cars either, but from the appearance and maintenance perspectives, as well as overall cost-to-benefit ratio, Veloster was the best option for me
Another great video. Are front wheel drive cars any good? YES! I am LOVING my 2019 Honda Civic Type R. My short list was the Type R and the Veloster N. Our local dealers did not have the Veloster N in the color I wanted which was that sweet Performance Blue and I got an incredible deal on a new Type R I could not pass up. I appreciate when car companies pour so much passion and performance in cars working people can afford because I know their profit margins on these cars are not much. In the wake of the electric future and increased restrictions coming up on internal combustion cars, if you find a performance car with a manual you like, find a way to get it more sooner than later before car companies are no longer be able to make them. Sadly this second golden age of the enthusiast car is coming to an end :(
After driving my first FWD sports car, a 2019 Abarth I really like them. The acceleration from a stand still is poor but the handling is great. Losing grip? hit the gas.
A lot of people keep forgetting that FWD is actually a great learning platform. Given its pit falls it's very forgiving and if you can learn to drive fast in a FWD those skills will translate to AWD. A lot of beginners in RWD tend to just send it hoping they don't spin out. Either that or they think they won't.
I have a NC and ND Miata. I owned a VelosterN for 6 months. It is really a fun car for the street/daily use. I set it up for the track. Sold it after two events. Too front heavy, understeer pig even with a massive rear sway bar. Chewed up front tires like crazy. I now track my ND Miata. Not as much HP on the straights but so much better balanced and so much faster in the corners.
I had a NA 250WHP 1991 CRX back in the early 2000s that weighed 1500lbs, it was the funnest car I've ever owned, with LSD & some BFG drag radials it hooked decent on the street and was like a go-cart...and I've owned a lot of nice and fast luxery and sports cars in my time. Hands down most fun. By far.
Great point on the need to have affordable sports cars. I wish someone would do a YT series like Rob Feretti's sorted, only focusing on modified attainable cars instead.
The answer for me was no. I used to slalom my RSX type S, unfortunately slalom racing greatly exaggerated its inefficiencies/difficulties of laying down power while still in mid turn. I had to compensate everywhere and couldn’t really use the vehicles power, which was significant. The VTEC “boost” that kicked in around 5500 RPM did me no favors also 😂. Needless to say it was a handful......which is part of the fun.
For me weight is the biggest factor that contributes to ANYcar being fun and weight is BAD. Honda CRX, prelude, etc were mad fun to drive cuz they were lightweight. Give me fun tossable leightweight fwd 80s sports cars over todays heavy straight line fast artitical feeling fwd sports cars any day. Fast does not equal fun. Look at the old 60s and 70s brittish sports cars. They were SLOW and fun as hell cuz they were lightweight. Jason you had an acura integra! Be honest and give us some feedback. How do you feel about todays heavy sports cars vs the old lightweight ones.
@@deanmarr785 Ah yes. Golf GTI, another FWD sports car. The one that I thought is all-wheel drive (AWD) at first. Then, I found out that the Golf R is the one with AWD.
@@deanmarr785 In Italy and France, there are plenty of FWD sports cars that are considered legendary in Europe such Peugeot 106 Rallye, Fiat Uno Turbo, Renault Clio Williams, Peugeot 205 GTi, Fiat 500 Abarth, and Fiat Ritmo Abarth. There is also an extremely rare and unusual FWD sports sedan called Lancia Thema 8.32 (V8 engine, 32-valve) made in Italy during mid 1980s. It is an executive sedan fitted with a Ferrari V8 engine, but still retains its FWD setup.
Anyone remember the old Ford Focus RS? If you locked your arms and kept the steering wheel straight, it could move across 3 lanes of the motorway while you accelerated. Ok, not great for lap times but so much fun everywhere else.
@@alexvillalobos7137 I have, it's far too high strung and stiff for a daily driver in my opinion. If they would make a better coupe-styled hatchback Si it would be better. Maybe if they upgraded the adaptive dampers to have a comfort setting it may help but having 19 inch wheels on ~35 profile tires doesn't help ride quality. Also not a fan of the interior, Integra was simple and understated, Civic now is over designed. Maybe if they would put the Type R drivetrain in the Acura ILX I'd jump on it.
I want to like the Type R, but I would need to guy a second set of wheels with nowhere to store the stock set of wheels, or just sell them. Seems like a waste.
torque steer is usually attributed to transverse FWD engine configurations because ONE drive shaft is LONGER than the OTHER... which leads to a DIFFERENCE IN TORQUE transfer from wheel to wheel. That's the inherent DESIGN REASON for torque steer. Other differences would be varying tire pressures as well as weight distribution differences from the left and right side of the car, and of course road surface variance from one tire to the next etc.
@@thebricknomads This was actually my first option before I had even heard of the veloster n, but I heard a lot of oil dilution issues occured with those 1.5 L turbo engines so I wasn't sure anymore...
@@tableaux302 the oil dilution problem is fixed in the 2019+ cars (the oil dilution problem wasn't as bad as people made it out to be also) All turbo engines get some dilution but the 10th gen civic 2016 to 18 had it a bit more than normal
FWD is a must to have, if you live in a country with a cold, snowy winter. People will keep hating on FWD for some reason which I don't understand, but I'd rather have a car that I can have fun in the whole year around, not having to get stuck everywhere and having to drive really carefully in the winter.
@@bobow4075 But overall getting a new car would be a better investment than putting a lot of money into an old car. I had to learn that the hard way after my old car became a money pit. BTW right now I am loving having a car with a warranty.
Agreed, I have a 2019 GLI 35th Anniversary and been working with Paul's crew at DAP Repair and yes with a mild tune, upgraded rear sway bar and end link then put on some good summer tires and it is shocking how well these cars can perform. I really wanted to RWD performance car and almost got an 86/BRZ and also this Veloster N but after already leasing a 2019 base S trim Jetta since 2018 the loyalty discount sold me on staying in the VW family. They can be amazing and affordable fun.
Great video, as always. I'd say yes, was sceptical and die hard rwd fanatic, converted after owning a Focus ST, 5 pot... The RS really was the pinnacle of fwd design, loads of mechanical tech and a blast to drive
This is why I still have my Honda Prelude Type SH. It's down on power vs. my current car (Kia Stinger GT1 AWD), but it's over 1k lbs lighter, has an electronic differential (ATTS), dialed in (modded) for autocross/track use, handles like a RWD in corners, just so fun to throw around.
One of these days I have to put you in the seat of my fully electric race car. Single seat, open cockpit, 50/50 weight distribution, RWD, tremendous fun!
Had a full bolt on/big turbo Speed3 and loved it. Was split between getting a 5.0 or an N. I ended up getting an N. Have absolutely no complaints about the car. 5.0s are a dime a dozen and I absolutely can't stand the sound of them.
I have a 2005 chrysler sebring, 2.4lt 4 cylinder, turbocharged, the thing packs 225hp and I loooove the sound of the engine and the turbo spooling up as I hit the throttle, sure it’s a big, low and kinda heavy car, but it’s so comfortable to drive in the highway and so agile and funny when needed that I don’t see myself driving anything less powerful
Great explanation and absolutely spot on conclusion. I’ll share this vid in response to anyone that tries to assert that a car must be good or bad based on nothing but the wheels that are doing the driving...because they are wrong.
I had a Mazda Speed 3 with about 350 hp and while it was a fun little car, I hated the loss of traction in corners while accelerating. Torque steer made it feel like I was holding on to a bucking bronco. Also, no drifting =(
RWD people always like to act like they can accelerate out of a corner full throttle with no issues. FWD cars understeer, RWD cars oversteer. RWD cars don't just magically have more grip, they can't accelerate out of corners completely fine. If you understeered in your car, it's your fault for not knowing the limit of grip. Don't blame the car, blame the driver.
@@cfg_form2122 While that is true, one thing you're not accounting for is the shift in weight aft when you accelerate, allowing more grip to be achieved by the back tires.
@@jairhausheer3712 Yes, that is true, but it doesn't mean you can go around corners with RWD with no consequences. It all comes down to the driver and how they drive, if you're accelerating hard into or in a corner, you're driving wrong, and it doesn't matter what you're driving, it's not going to end up well for you.
Great points. A sports car really just needs to be fun while still being safe , it doesn't have to be a great race car , it just has to be faster than an average family car . Plus fwd tends to be more fuel efficient and as you said, they are a lot safer than rwd cars in bad conditions . I think they're great because they make sports cars more affordable, more people can get into the sport which helps with maintenance of race tracks and developing technologies . I really like what they've done with the brakes , the turbo and the valves too.
Limited-slip diffs are pretty much necessary for a front-wheel-drive performance car. Even in rear-wheel-drive cars, they make a difference. Torque steer, though, is not great if you're truly driving hard. I think that "feedback to the driver" that you mentioned is what makes driving a sporty front-wheel-drive car kinda entertaining - you have to manage the power differently to a rear-wheel-drive car and more often, too, due to the lower traction. But when I have a decent diff, I can feel pretty confident pushing it in the turns. My GTI with the performance package (which includes an E-LSD) was super fun to drive in 90-degree turns especially. It helped when I put better tires on it - it was kind of a mess when I first got it with some more touring-oriented tires.
Well... I've just sold Subaru BRZ and bought Hyundai i30N a few weeks back. And i don't regret it even a little. It's OTHER kind of fun to drive one of these
Oh I dont care about winning or power or any of that. Just having fun drifting/rallying/snow is my thing thats all. Ill keep fwd for my daily. Rwd and awd will always be more fun to drive in my opinion. That is all folks
I completely understand your point. I think most interesting advances have been on the suspension for pocket rockets, hp hasn't hugely come up in the last decade for this segment but their ability to put it to good use has dramatically changed. I have a srt4 modified with tons of power, but try and steer that thing and you better have alexa setup to call 911 from inputs on an accelerometer for when you tip over a ditch. I have driven the new veloster and although there's not nearly as much power it does feel good carving in the road.
I know a bunch of cars have had various forms of rear wheel steering, mainly in the 90's, and there are some advantages to having it...but the primary limiting factors are cost, complexity, and reliability, which is to say that it's expensive, complicated, and breaks down easily and often. As such, you really don't see it anymore.
It’d be good to point out why your point about front drive having better traction in snow doesn’t contradict your first point about weight transfer. The reason, of course, is that if you don’t have the grip in a car to generate significant acceleration (in the snow), you don’t get the weight transfer. That means you’re left with closer to the static weight distribution, and front drive cars have a lot more weight over the driven wheels than front-engined rear drive cars. Rear-engined cars of course combine this benefit with rear wheel drive. Where they differ is the driver can’t change the direction of torque to help keep the car on a cambered road at low speed in very slippery conditions - the rear of a RE/RWD car will often drift down the camber, just like a FE/RWD car. The other thing worth pointing out is that with winter tyres, whilst a FE/RWD car still has a relative disadvantage, there is enough grip and traction to get around - obviously BMWs are made in a snowy part of Europe, as were classic Volvos.
With front wheel drive, if you “lose it” in bad weather, you REALLY lose it. With all those “features”, I’d expect that car to “be in the shop” a lot, if my experience with things like ABS and AC is anything to go by. . .
this just doesn't make logical sense since turning the wheel and stomping the gas in low traction with front wheel drive is more likely to get you back on track than a rear drive. you just can't be a dunce with your oversteering. also in almost all case this puts more weight on the drive wheels since they're directly under the engine and transmission.
Everyone has their preferences, simple facts are though fwd is cheaper to manufacture, depending on weight balance superior slippery traction and generally safer for novice drivers. Almost any vehicle suspension can be improved to change the vehicle's behavior. That being said I prefer rwd, sadly no sports car for me but I have tuned mine to be more neutral than typical. Where I live we have lots of gravel, broken pavement, snow and ice and for me a neutral but stable platform is more important. Electronic features are lifesavers but in my area they seem to fail far too quickly due to road and salt damage.
@YMC-DAB420 no, what you just described is a "sporty" car. a "sports car" is by definition RWD or AWD..........its right in the fu%#$!@* dictionary, ffs man.
@@michaelxcx per Merriam Webster: a low, small, usually 2-passenger automobile designed for quick response, easy maneuverability, and high-speed driving. Where does it say anything about RWD or AWD?
@@johnathanmoyer2375 as stated in the dictionary. a FWD car can be " sporty ", but not a " sports car "....... two very different things. if you don't know what a dictionary is then id suggest you get a thesaurus and work your way up, cheers.
Not even close lol. The people who can't drive think AWD is the best thing in the world. And typically own FWD because they're scared of RWD and can't afford AWD lmfao.
@@cameronknowles6267 bruh calm down. Some people can’t afford certain things. Also certain makes or types of transmission, or engine layouts are more expensive in different areas.
It’s impressive to think that Pontiac engineers used many of the same tweaks to make the Grand Prix GXP a well behaved FWD V8 sedan back in 2005. Wider front tires, Bilstein shocks, Magnasteer just to name a few.
I hope Hyundai read this. I have a Coupe/Tiburon. I love it. I extremely, mega, desperately wanted a Genesis Coupe.. They never came to my country and seem to only be in the US. I know from my Coupe/Tib that a front wheel drive car is great but.. The coupe feels like it needs RWD. It handles great and is reliable but the shape of the coupe just feels rear-end heavy. I would literally urinate out eggs of excitement if I could ever get a genesis coupe but I was born in the wrong country. I see THIS car in the video on the motorway, only it's the fastback version! And I want it! However, the FWD puts me off because of my experience in the Coupe/Tib. I want RWD burnouts and I want to do drifts, darn it! (on a track/skid pad, of course...) Your point about FWD being hard to get right is something Hyundai have always been good at tackling but your point about it being less-expensive to implement leaves me feeling like my Coupe/Tib is a cheap car! It is cheap now, obviously. But at the time, that was £17,000 and in today's money that must be £25- 30,000. HYUNDAI. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE make a RWD funbox like the Genesis Coupe for the rest of the world. Make it right hand drive, manual 6 speed, old-school diff.. Please! Before electric cars take over let me enjoy some sick burnouts in a Hyundai Coupe...
Yes my megane 4 Rs 280 edc is a machine when it comes to corners and sounds amazing. I wanna put Michelin PS4 S and a stage 1 tune to it that make 310 hp and 440 nm.
Thanks for stopping by everyone! This is the second video of a three-part series I've teamed up with Hyundai on, covering the engineering of the Veloster N! Easy to agree on when I drove the car back in 2018 and loved it. Here are related videos if anyone's interested in more:
*Videos That Are Not Sponsored:*
Veloster N Review - ua-cam.com/video/6BVEhLBj7MQ/v-deo.html
Nurburgring Lap, Veloster N - ua-cam.com/video/W7ZfO5E-jiE/v-deo.html
How Veloster N's Anti-Lag Works - ua-cam.com/video/ccMg-KzMgU8/v-deo.html
How Exhaust Crackles Work - ua-cam.com/video/64YzCty-27Y/v-deo.html
*Sponsored 3-Part Series:*
Part 1 - DCT vs Manual - What's the difference? ua-cam.com/video/oQQ3nfIf6EE/v-deo.html
Part 2 - This video!
Part 3 - Coming December 23, dives into Veloster N DCT features!
😎
Loved our Elantra Limited
IMHO the problem with front-wheel drive is when driving on the limit any increase in power induces understeer which limits the cornering speed on the way out and you cant get on the power as hard either which is the main issue with acceleration on an FWD.... Having to wait that bit longer to get the power on compared to a similar sport RWD as opposed to wheel spin in a straight line.
The other big performance handling issue with FWD is that you can't induce oversteer with the throttle.
Hey man, love your videos! Not sure if you made one already but I was wondering whenever you’re free if you can make a video that explains why the torque curve on a torque/hp vs. rpm graph falls back down after it peaks at a certain rpm. Just a phenomenon that im having trouble wrapping my head around. Would appreciate it a lot!
Hyundai has come to be one of my favourite car brands. I love the styling and features of the Veloster Turbo and Veloster N Line, as well as the Elantra N Line.
Speaking of which, I'd like to see a video or two covering the Elantra N Line.
with modern E-diffs and traction assistants, they can be a BLAST to drive. For me, throw some good tires, and a rear sway bar upgrade and thrash! I also think you can have fun in pretty much any car, so what do I know. Okay back to fixing a Turbo R32 that wont start. :)
Great engineering like with the Civic Type R also helps - FWD can absolutely be fun!
I know you’re a VW enthusiast, but when I read R32 my head went straight to the GTR. Humble Mechanic working on JDM, I would watch that any day!
Keep up the good work Charles, looking forward to the video!
I’m a mod noob, what would the rear sway bar do on the car? I have a GTI
I added a modest rear bar to a Mazda6, 18mm to 21, and huge improvement from severe understeer. Huge rear bars defeat rear independent suspension, and can be dangerous in bad weather, unless driver knows better.
I used a suspension book by engineer Fred Puhn to determine weight transfer bias to help decide what diameter to use.
Torque steer 'a good thing' .. As my 270bhp Alfa 147 leaves the traffic lights and goes straight (or not) into the bakery.
A little torque steer is fun, a lot of torque steer is a pain to live with
Every thought maybe your Alfa is just hungry?
Being italian, it was probably heading to the cafe next to it.
Maybe get your power steering tuned to reduce it's effect
Hey, at least it wasn't drifting towards a crowd of people....
They're good for reverse donuts and tripod cornering
Reverse Donut?
I don't know what you meant, but liked it.
@@redpanda9141 Don't tell Homer.
@@redpanda9141 yes, using the reverse gear
😂 the only way you can do “donut” burnouts on a front wheel drive car is by going in reverse 🤦
Hyundai Eng.: sir the car is having an issue in torque steer.
Hyundai: make it a feature.
That's because removing it completely would give the car pretty much no steering feel.
@@AE86FTS I swear Honda is the only company that gives feedback in electric power steered cars. Even then it's barely any...
When Hyundai discovered the car has a torque steer, they rang the spin doctor and he said it’s intended as a feature.
And since it has (like all FF cars) unequal length torque tubes, it HAS to have torque steer, that's just how physics works.
@@Noukz37 "bound to have" is a more accurate word, but yeah.
"Are Front Wheel Drive Sports Cars Any Good?" - as a Brit this is a strange question to ask as I've grown up with incredible hot hatches from the first Golf GTI onwards that are amazing fun to drive.
American enthusiasts (probably others also) can be a little..... contentious when it comes to how people classify cars. Personally, I’m with you, and if my GTI wasn’t a sports car from the start it certainly is now after all the small modifications I’ve made to it to remove slop from the steering and brakes.
@@valerierodger7700 Yeah nah, Americans like well handling cars but we prefer RWD because we don't have any car restrictions on our license so why settle?
People are far more concerned with where to put a super sized Coke, without worrying about it spilling, a cell phone holder in easy reach, and smooth ride, and the ability to measure your dick via acceleration in a straight line.
Just look at any car review and listen to how often they talk about roll races and not having enough cup holders.
Hot hatches are not so popular in US, they buy muscle cars and sporty SUV's instead.
@@telelaci2 we aren't all like that, I personally love hot hatches (drive a mini gp3) and want a supercharged r53 next. Do I like driving V8 Chargers? Yes but I much prefer my Mini for flying down backroads. Overall hot hatches are just more fun for me.
Almost everything nowadays is a sports car when compared to older cars.
Still cracking up daily when someone advertises their new "powerfull" car and it has like 170-210hp. You are 25 years late with powerfull bruh. Anything under that is horrible anyway.
It's the other way around.
An interesting perspective but I couldn't disagree more. From my view, sportscars and spirited driving are about the way you experience the drive; the sounds, the sights (of the car and the scenery etc), the overall way it makes you feel. While most new cars are no doubt better in most/all quantifiable measures than older sportscars, they've reached a level of insulation from the driving experience that they've become appliances on wheels.
@@PoorCoyotee lol if I
Had 140HP on my car I think it would be considered a sports car
tbh i've yet to even attain a car myself, but i just don't like the aspect that sports car nowadays just sort of blend in, like they're not something far from a family car. and in terms of feel, idk but as far as i've understood from Best Motoring, they just feel the same as a standard car and they don't have that character unless you're in a race track or in race mode.
I think the Honda Integra Type R DC2 is the best example of a true FWD sports car. From the factory the suspension was set up to allow for a hint of oversteer which made the car feel a lot more lively during cornering and helped reduce understeer.
Front wheel drive doesn't make a car fun, but FWD cars can be fun.
I like that approach!
Same thing can be said about RWD, or AWD.
Well said. Same with DCT transmissions.
FWD performance cars are a case of "if you can't be with the one you love, love the one you with"..... if someone got a blank check and sheet of paper to design their ultimate performance car nobody would do a FWD economy car. That's not to say they can't be good... they're just a compromise.
Every single object that has ever been engineered is a compromise.
@@X8X8X8X8X8X8X8X8X8X there are degrees of compromise. In the context of driving fun a FWD hot hatch is a bigger compromise than a mid engine sports car.
@@X8X8X8X8X8X8X8X8X8X well now youre just getting philosophical
@@connivingkhajiit
Thank you ;)
@@future62 compromise requires a direction and intended goal, and what someone is willing to do to achieve that goal. That can be cost, practicality, safety etc.
Jason, I'm surprised that you didn't even mention the name Albert Biermann who transformed Hyundai ho-hum into sportier cars.
He's the man! I had many great conversations with him in Germany, and he taught me about the N's anti-lag system: ua-cam.com/video/ccMg-KzMgU8/v-deo.html
Alfas are junk bro.
@@bryanwelch6209 I think you’re a bit lost...
Love my Focus ST, such a shame Ford stopped selling them in the US.
I STRONGLY DISAGREE! Being as famous as I am on UA-cam, I know that it gets hard to read every comment I get. I try my best, but I am just so famous, that I can't do it much longer. Sorry, dear tom
@@AxxLAfriku tf you on about?
No !!! They're endless money pots for mechanics when they age and the younger the mechanic the bigger his eventual money pot
I was never able to try out a Fiesta ST, but heard they were hilarious fun.
@@jackd1582 my 2013 ST didn't have a single failure during the 6 years and 150k miles that I put on it. 60k of those miles were with the FRPP tune. Only reason I got rid of it was to get a Focus RS, which has also been reliable.
Probably depends on your definition of "sport" and "good".
I personally believe that a 2600 lbs Integra is in some respects sportier than a 3200 lbs Lexus (or a 3500 lbs Subaru). I can only imagine how sporty a 2900 lbs Polo/S1 is, but will probably never know.
@@killdizzle that's all day driving sporty in a "some" legal way...
@@killdizzle I only mentioned what most people do on dayly driving... Pulls maybe some fast corner. When a GTi does this all ok... For most
@@killdizzle No Problem... I myself driving a very very understeer happy AWD and call it sometimes sporty oops
@@Nordlicht05 No, most don't. The vast majority of people drive a sporty or powerful car just as they do any other... because after a while it becomes a bit boring, and chasing those thrills means driving ever faster. Ego driven males, those self proclaimed expert drivers who see speed as the only goal, are usually the ones who do that. They usually find the limits of their car the hard way, with an insurance claim and a big bill. And yes, I've owned several sports cars, but never had an accident or a speeding ticket.
@@another3997 I remember saying... Maybe pulls. Yea I know
In addition to FWD, the other thing I dislike about that type of car is the 'shift by cable' system. They are mushy, soft and feel like an arcade game. All that is why I like the Subaru BRZ so much! If the're hell bent on using a 'trans-axle', put the whole shebang in the rear! Even with a mushy gear shift system it would still be a proper sports car. 8) Honda, are you listening? 8) The Gold Wing has a flat 6 and side radiators (hint hint) 8) JMHO --gary
Just answering the question from a Ford Fiesta ST owner - YES, YES, and YES!
Same. My green envy snot rocket lol.
I bought a new civic si for alot of those reasons, affordable fun to drive and practical for day to day use
I was thinking about getting one, do you think I should just save up for the type r or go for the si?
Same. Love my civic si. Fun daily driver
Ok yeah ima get that si
The type r is a different animal, I heard they are amazing, I wasn't willing to pay the difference 100 more hp and crazy areo, throttle house did a great video si vs veloster as well as type r
@@fahmi1347 the new Si’s look so weird to me. 9th Gen Si’s are where it’s at
Did I detect you ALMOST mentioning the Integra? Ha.
Such a great car.
Sports cars are about sports. If a car is designed with lightweight and minimal weight transfer in mind, then it will work well in racing with minimal modification. That is a sports car. If you overcome excess weight with horsepower then you have a muscle car. If the styling and top speed takes precedence over practicality then you have a supercar.
It's a shame the US market doesn't have the Mk8 Fiesta ST. It's absolutely brilliant!
It's a looker too, if you ask me.
Yes but it's only available with the 3-cylinder EcoBoost and still no independent suspension. What a shame.
Ford basically killed me as a customer by killing off their car line. I've 6 ford's off the top of my head, and I'm in the market right now, and I can't see myself in a Mustang.
Sucks they don't get SEATs either
Everyone will hate me for this, but let's go:
1_ Front wheel drive favors regenerative braking. The weight shift towards the front axle during braking means the front wheels can receive higher braking torque, permitting higher regeneration power, and higher energy efficiency.
2_ Steering or driving an axle makes it way more expensive to manufacture than an axle that is neither driven nor steered. However, driving the front wheels will cost only marginally more than just steering them, while driving the rear wheels through anything but a live axle will cost as much as or maybe more than a complete front wheel drive suspension.
3_ Rear wheel drive is only necessary when, due to the power level, it is critical to use the weight shift to the rear axle during acceleration in order to provide better traction.
4_ Torque steer is caused by driveline asymmetry and suspension geometry (when the traction makes the wheels toe in too much and then a minor weight shift chooses one side to runaway to); but depending on power level, when the asymmetry gets sorted out, the geometry doesn't need to; just look at Subaru cars.
Well after riding in a Type R I was sold on the drivetrain , it’s also worth taking note that the chief engineer behind the Veloster N was a 30+ year vet from BMW’s M division
Yes! Albert Biermann is a bit of a genius (understatement) when it comes to designing a fun car!
@@EngineeringExplained you know it !! Cool video as always
I absolutely love my Veloster N!! It brings back joy to driving that I'd lost with a dull GTI. The cockpit feel, the road feel, the feedback, the crackles and pops, the hum of the exhaust when accelerating(especially during hard acceleration), and the lower sporty feel!!! The GTI is great at so many things, but it doesn't have the sporty joy you get when driving a Veloster N.
Audi’s TT Cup car is actually FWD, not AWD. They seem to be competitive.
Yep 1200 kg car doesn't hurt either
Actually it depends , the '' normal'' TTs are FWD , the '' quattro'' one are still FWD , but when the front slips , it engages the rear wheels through a differential from what i know ...
@@MrMotorNerd That is 260kg heavier than a Mk1 Ford Cortina Estate car 8-)=
@@shawnoconnors3645 iTS actually called a Haldex .
@@ColinMill1 Fair call however the TT handles way better than a Cortina . I had a Cortina as my first car .
Great stuff. I love FWD.
I have to correct you on one very common misconception, though. Many people think that the front wheels (in FWD, RWD, and 4WD) are "responsible" for rotating the car. This is just not true. Yes, when you're turning in, you have to impart a yaw rate to the vehicle, and this requires that you generate more lateral force from the fronts than from the rears. But that's not the end of the story. When you're exiting the corner, you have to stop that yaw rate, and that requires more lateral force from the rears. This is why it's so easy to oversteer on exit in RWD. As you start unwinding the steering, the fronts reduce their slip angle immediately, while the rears take a while to catch up; this lag is what kills the yaw rotation, and you have to wait for it before you feed power to the rears.
So driving the front wheels does not in itself demand "too much" from the front wheels. FWD asks the fronts to both impart yaw rate and brake on entry (not being able to use engine braking to effectively throw the brake bias rearward). RWD asks the rears to both accelerate and kill yaw rate on exit. The extra demand on the fronts is really the result of the forward CG nearly all FWD cars have. Likewise, it has taken Porsche's brilliant engineers decades to pacify the tail-heavy 911's over-worked rears on exit.
Perhaps the best thing about FWD is simply that it's a different driving skill from RWD. If you've been racing RWD for a while and have it pretty much all figured out, you can hop into a FWD and have the delight of getting to know a vehicle that has a very different set of strengths and weaknesses.
Probably not every FWD is good, but sports hondas are mostly FWD and they are very good.
Good FWD cars GOLF GTI, Honda Civic Si, and now Veloster N.
You and Thestraightpipes coverage of this the Veloster N led me to the purchase of my first brand new car!!! I have a blast driving the Bridge Ridge Parkway every chance I get in my N!!
The Car in the Red Colour looks STUNNING!!
Looking to purchase a new car this next year to replace my WRX. Considering the Kona N if it has a manual transmission. Yes, I know it's slower but I still enjoy the pleasure of that left pedal. Owned a '85 CRX Si , FWD can be fun.
I love my Veloster N and have had it for almost a year now. It is by far the best car I have owned. I've driven rear wheel drive cars a lot less confidence inspiring than my car even though it is only FWD.
Hi! Why this one over type r?
I grew up with rear wheel performance vehicles and always considered FWD as something that came with low performance budget cars. With a genuine need for a budget car I got a 5th generation Ford Fiesta when they were new to the market and to my surprise I found the handling of this vehicle to be beyond belief and certainly found that it could hold its own compared to way more expensive sports cars. When the 6th generation Fiesta became available I bought one of those and likewise also very impressed by the overall roadholding. When the 6th generation Fiesta ST became available I bought one of those and I still have this as my daily driver. I would consider the 7th generation ST but I live in a part of the world that doesn't have this option.
I recently bought my wife a BRZ which I get to drive and this has been a reality check for me...
I do think that it is possible to have a good performance FWD sports car however a purpose built RWD sports car will always be the best in the end.
This being said - I don't think much about most of the vehicles available these days. It seems like most manufacturers are moving towards making vehicles that provide as much isolation from the driving experience as possible. This thinking seems to of been adopted by all manufacturers - even the ones who once knew how to build exciting sports sedans (BWW M series).
Still there are a few great vehicles that are designed around the driving experience - the MX5 and the 86 are in my opinion two of the very best 👍
Like the B roll of the "green hell", nice!
I remember seeing a civic on best motoring cornering so fast that the back end was just sliding around, just being dragged around like a water skier with the front end just hooking in and yanking the car around them corners. Looked fun as hell
Having said he loves affordable sports cars. I now want to see Jason in a Lotus 7 derivative..... Caterham, talk to this man
Nice evaluation Jason. I remember in the 40s (yes, I’m an OLD guy), there was still debate on RWD vs. FWD. The FWD (Cord) will “pull you around the corner, making handling better, easier. We’ve come a long way since then. After years of Corvette ownership, I’ve come to the conclusion I prefer AWD.
I'm curious what you would choose between the next Honda Civic Type R and the GR Corolla? Awaiting your wisdom please:)
@@antonroux6737 That’s too easy to answer. Neither! I do not buy Japanese or Korean cars.
Helloooooooo.
You da best car teacher, keep it up man!
I respect your opinion and your insight. I have driven some fun fwd cars, the GTI and Mini Cooper S as examples that retain the enjoyment of driving. I imagine the Hyundai is a similar experience. That said, I really love having input control over all 4 wheels. “Steering with the throttle” - including on daily driving. Accelerating out of a right hand turn for example. You can get more rotation with more throttle input - you’re controlling all 4 wheels.
I similarly enjoy awd vehicles - not the pretend ones that are mostly fwd and send power to rear wheels when slip is detected. My daily driver is an STi hatch. My weekend car is a Mustang GT. And I’ve owned a few Miatas over the years - along with other cars - and there’s just something about that “pure” first gen Miata driving experience.
But yes, a fwd car can be fun. But an awd version of that same car (Golf R, for example) would be my preference. I hate understeer. I enjoy oversteer. And truth be told, most awd cars from the factory are set up to understeer. I have my STi dialed in decently, but it will never have the turn in of any of my rwd cars I’ve owned.
Great video, well balanced, unbiased & informative! I've just bought a 2008 Civic Type R, 6 speed manual, revs to 8400 rpm & is so much fun to throw into a corner! :)
I’ve had my Veloster N for about 6 months now and I LOVE IT! Most fun car I’ve owned yet. On my 4th car lol
Honda Prelude has been a fun FWD sports car since ages ago. Even outright power was respectable in the 93+ models with the VTEC (yo) 2.2
I'm always impressed by what manufacturers have done in the affordable car market with front-wheel drive. If you look at the top offerings in the sport segment from Honda, Mazda, and now Hyundai, great strides have been made on the engineering side of things. In the late '80s, Dodge campaigned two Dodge Daytonas in IMSA GTU (under 3.0 liters). The Archer brothers ran the racing program and drove the cars. One car was front-wheel drive (the only one in GTU as far I recall), the other was conventional rear-wheel drive. It was an engineering exercise to learn some things under harsh racing conditions on how to maximize front drive handling, braking, and tire management.
*honda boys have entered chat
I have a manual '20 Veloster N and LOVE this car! I should confess that both my wife and I have a silly grin on our faces every single time the engine starts and the pops and crackles appeared, or while cornering hardly on twisty roads - I can't tell you how many times I deliberately picked the route with as many switchbacks as possible just to enjoy driving it a bit more. A friend of mine, who has an '18 Focus RS, has been impressed by this car, too. In fact, the only two features I'm somewhat missing are AWD and heated seats - other than that, I have no complaints, regrets, or qualms whatsoever.
I think Hyundai did an amazing job of creating fun and driver-centered car on a budget.
P.S. I test-drove Type R and WRX as well, and those are undoubtedly great cars either, but from the appearance and maintenance perspectives, as well as overall cost-to-benefit ratio, Veloster was the best option for me
“Are front wheel drive cars good? Yes, here’s the Type R”
Boom 10 second video. Done.
Another great video. Are front wheel drive cars any good? YES! I am LOVING my 2019 Honda Civic Type R. My short list was the Type R and the Veloster N. Our local dealers did not have the Veloster N in the color I wanted which was that sweet Performance Blue and I got an incredible deal on a new Type R I could not pass up. I appreciate when car companies pour so much passion and performance in cars working people can afford because I know their profit margins on these cars are not much. In the wake of the electric future and increased restrictions coming up on internal combustion cars, if you find a performance car with a manual you like, find a way to get it more sooner than later before car companies are no longer be able to make them. Sadly this second golden age of the enthusiast car is coming to an end :(
After driving my first FWD sports car, a 2019 Abarth I really like them. The acceleration from a stand still is poor but the handling is great. Losing grip? hit the gas.
A lot of people keep forgetting that FWD is actually a great learning platform. Given its pit falls it's very forgiving and if you can learn to drive fast in a FWD those skills will translate to AWD. A lot of beginners in RWD tend to just send it hoping they don't spin out. Either that or they think they won't.
great point about fwd translating better to awd driving skills, and both being legit rally classes
Type R - "Hold my beer"
I have a NC and ND Miata. I owned a VelosterN for 6 months. It is really a fun car for the street/daily use. I set it up for the track. Sold it after two events. Too front heavy, understeer pig even with a massive rear sway bar. Chewed up front tires like crazy. I now track my ND Miata. Not as much HP on the straights but so much better balanced and so much faster in the corners.
i drive everyweek on the nurb and with the winter im happy to have that fwd so helpfull like i can control the car
Isn't the Nordschleife closed by now until spring?
I had a NA 250WHP 1991 CRX back in the early 2000s that weighed 1500lbs, it was the funnest car I've ever owned, with LSD & some BFG drag radials it hooked decent on the street and was like a go-cart...and I've owned a lot of nice and fast luxery and sports cars in my time. Hands down most fun. By far.
Great point on the need to have affordable sports cars. I wish someone would do a YT series like Rob Feretti's sorted, only focusing on modified attainable cars instead.
affordable sports cars is the thing that will save the automotive industry.
The answer for me was no. I used to slalom my RSX type S, unfortunately slalom racing greatly exaggerated its inefficiencies/difficulties of laying down power while still in mid turn. I had to compensate everywhere and couldn’t really use the vehicles power, which was significant. The VTEC “boost” that kicked in around 5500 RPM did me no favors also 😂. Needless to say it was a handful......which is part of the fun.
*_They’re not just good, they’re GREAT! Especially in the right hands!_*
Ok Frosted Flakes
Yes ik. My comment is also about my megane 4 Rs.
Ur fd2 is noice.
For me weight is the biggest factor that contributes to ANYcar being fun and weight is BAD. Honda CRX, prelude, etc were mad fun to drive cuz they were lightweight. Give me fun tossable leightweight fwd 80s sports cars over todays heavy straight line fast artitical feeling fwd sports cars any day. Fast does not equal fun. Look at the old 60s and 70s brittish sports cars. They were SLOW and fun as hell cuz they were lightweight.
Jason you had an acura integra! Be honest and give us some feedback. How do you feel about todays heavy sports cars vs the old lightweight ones.
Civic Type R, Mazdaspeed 3, and Integra Type R. Those are among the notable FWD sports cars.
No. GTI for the win
@@deanmarr785 Ah yes. Golf GTI, another FWD sports car. The one that I thought is all-wheel drive (AWD) at first. Then, I found out that the Golf R is the one with AWD.
@@izzatfauzimustafa6535 Both are great cars
@@deanmarr785 In Italy and France, there are plenty of FWD sports cars that are considered legendary in Europe such Peugeot 106 Rallye, Fiat Uno Turbo, Renault Clio Williams, Peugeot 205 GTi, Fiat 500 Abarth, and Fiat Ritmo Abarth. There is also an extremely rare and unusual FWD sports sedan called Lancia Thema 8.32 (V8 engine, 32-valve) made in Italy during mid 1980s. It is an executive sedan fitted with a Ferrari V8 engine, but still retains its FWD setup.
@@izzatfauzimustafa6535 You guys get all the good stuff. At least I have my socal weather.
Anyone remember the old Ford Focus RS? If you locked your arms and kept the steering wheel straight, it could move across 3 lanes of the motorway while you accelerated. Ok, not great for lap times but so much fun everywhere else.
Only one word you need when answering a guestion: Can fwd car be fast? -Integra
Still probably the best handling stock cars I ever owned, I do give a little smile when I see a clean one driving by
@@tbm275 drive the new type r if you ever get the chance
@@alexvillalobos7137 I have, it's far too high strung and stiff for a daily driver in my opinion. If they would make a better coupe-styled hatchback Si it would be better. Maybe if they upgraded the adaptive dampers to have a comfort setting it may help but having 19 inch wheels on ~35 profile tires doesn't help ride quality.
Also not a fan of the interior, Integra was simple and understated, Civic now is over designed. Maybe if they would put the Type R drivetrain in the Acura ILX I'd jump on it.
I want to like the Type R, but I would need to guy a second set of wheels with nowhere to store the stock set of wheels, or just sell them. Seems like a waste.
torque steer is usually attributed to transverse FWD engine configurations because ONE drive shaft is LONGER than the OTHER... which leads to a DIFFERENCE IN TORQUE transfer from wheel to wheel. That's the inherent DESIGN REASON for torque steer. Other differences would be varying tire pressures as well as weight distribution differences from the left and right side of the car, and of course road surface variance from one tire to the next etc.
I’m definitely looking forward to getting a veloster n in the near future as my first sports car! Looks like a great introduction as well
You should look into the 10th gen civic hatchbacks (I love mine)
@@thebricknomads This was actually my first option before I had even heard of the veloster n, but I heard a lot of oil dilution issues occured with those 1.5 L turbo engines so I wasn't sure anymore...
@@tableaux302 the oil dilution problem is fixed in the 2019+ cars (the oil dilution problem wasn't as bad as people made it out to be also)
All turbo engines get some dilution but the 10th gen civic 2016 to 18 had it a bit more than normal
FWD is a must to have, if you live in a country with a cold, snowy winter. People will keep hating on FWD for some reason which I don't understand, but I'd rather have a car that I can have fun in the whole year around, not having to get stuck everywhere and having to drive really carefully in the winter.
Stop making me want to buy an LSD for my gti, it's too expensive 😡
What generation?
just get a new GTI with an LSD
Then consume LSD..
@@MK6CHRIS if he says an lsd is expensive, getting a new car is out of the question my guy
@@bobow4075 But overall getting a new car would be a better investment than putting a lot of money into an old car. I had to learn that the hard way after my old car became a money pit. BTW right now I am loving having a car with a warranty.
Agreed, I have a 2019 GLI 35th Anniversary and been working with Paul's crew at DAP Repair and yes with a mild tune, upgraded rear sway bar and end link then put on some good summer tires and it is shocking how well these cars can perform. I really wanted to RWD performance car and almost got an 86/BRZ and also this Veloster N but after already leasing a 2019 base S trim Jetta since 2018 the loyalty discount sold me on staying in the VW family. They can be amazing and affordable fun.
My Lotus Elan says “yes!”
Also the first new car I ever bought, a 1991 Isuzu Stylus, a brilliantly fun-to-drive FWD car.
Great video, as always. I'd say yes, was sceptical and die hard rwd fanatic, converted after owning a Focus ST, 5 pot... The RS really was the pinnacle of fwd design, loads of mechanical tech and a blast to drive
I love so much my Veloster N :D
This is why I still have my Honda Prelude Type SH. It's down on power vs. my current car (Kia Stinger GT1 AWD), but it's over 1k lbs lighter, has an electronic differential (ATTS), dialed in (modded) for autocross/track use, handles like a RWD in corners, just so fun to throw around.
Depends on suspension/ what you build
What "depends on suspension/what you build" ? I built a shed, but it doesn't have suspension. 🙄
@@another3997 There was suspense, whether or not it would stay up
After 11,500 miles of daily driving, autocrossing, and driving my N on track, I'd have to say yes. This car is so much fun.
Yes. You just need to know how to drive them.
One of these days I have to put you in the seat of my fully electric race car. Single seat, open cockpit, 50/50 weight distribution, RWD, tremendous fun!
and no sound
they are great for spinning the wheels, torque steer, and understeering into guardrails.
T steer is lowkey fun/engaging. Lol coming from a jetta se 1.8t, not like I've experienced much
I would legitimately consider one of these after my focus st if they had brought the i30N to North America. The veloster just isn’t really practical.
Another ST owner here. I am jealous of that elsd and all the adjustment in the suspension
Such a shame we don't get any sort of i30/Elantra hatchback in the US anymore. The new facelift looks so damn good.
I'm 6" (182cm) and I can finally fit in the back seat of a veloster. I was hitting my head on the glass in the old veloster
Had a full bolt on/big turbo Speed3 and loved it. Was split between getting a 5.0 or an N. I ended up getting an N. Have absolutely no complaints about the car. 5.0s are a dime a dozen and I absolutely can't stand the sound of them.
As someone who regularly bullies ecoboost Mustangs in my Accord, I can confirm, yes they are :)
I have a 2005 chrysler sebring, 2.4lt 4 cylinder, turbocharged, the thing packs 225hp and I loooove the sound of the engine and the turbo spooling up as I hit the throttle, sure it’s a big, low and kinda heavy car, but it’s so comfortable to drive in the highway and so agile and funny when needed that I don’t see myself driving anything less powerful
Sure, hot hatches are neat, but the answer is always Miata.
Sure, if you can fit in.
Ideal garage a turbo swapped GTI for a daily and MX5 for fun.
Great explanation and absolutely spot on conclusion. I’ll share this vid in response to anyone that tries to assert that a car must be good or bad based on nothing but the wheels that are doing the driving...because they are wrong.
I had a Mazda Speed 3 with about 350 hp and while it was a fun little car, I hated the loss of traction in corners while accelerating. Torque steer made it feel like I was holding on to a bucking bronco. Also, no drifting =(
RWD people always like to act like they can accelerate out of a corner full throttle with no issues. FWD cars understeer, RWD cars oversteer. RWD cars don't just magically have more grip, they can't accelerate out of corners completely fine. If you understeered in your car, it's your fault for not knowing the limit of grip. Don't blame the car, blame the driver.
@@cfg_form2122 While that is true, one thing you're not accounting for is the shift in weight aft when you accelerate, allowing more grip to be achieved by the back tires.
@@jairhausheer3712 Yes, that is true, but it doesn't mean you can go around corners with RWD with no consequences. It all comes down to the driver and how they drive, if you're accelerating hard into or in a corner, you're driving wrong, and it doesn't matter what you're driving, it's not going to end up well for you.
Great points. A sports car really just needs to be fun while still being safe , it doesn't have to be a great race car , it just has to be faster than an average family car .
Plus fwd tends to be more fuel efficient and as you said, they are a lot safer than rwd cars in bad conditions .
I think they're great because they make sports cars more affordable, more people can get into the sport which helps with maintenance of race tracks and developing technologies .
I really like what they've done with the brakes , the turbo and the valves too.
Fiesta ST MK7 ist the best bang for the buck you can get imho without giving up good daily driving capabilities.
Love my 2017
Limited-slip diffs are pretty much necessary for a front-wheel-drive performance car. Even in rear-wheel-drive cars, they make a difference. Torque steer, though, is not great if you're truly driving hard. I think that "feedback to the driver" that you mentioned is what makes driving a sporty front-wheel-drive car kinda entertaining - you have to manage the power differently to a rear-wheel-drive car and more often, too, due to the lower traction. But when I have a decent diff, I can feel pretty confident pushing it in the turns. My GTI with the performance package (which includes an E-LSD) was super fun to drive in 90-degree turns especially. It helped when I put better tires on it - it was kind of a mess when I first got it with some more touring-oriented tires.
Rwd and awd is always the answer
not always, you would be surprised. fwd can win to awd in some performance aspects
Well... I've just sold Subaru BRZ and bought Hyundai i30N a few weeks back. And i don't regret it even a little. It's OTHER kind of fun to drive one of these
Oh I dont care about winning or power or any of that. Just having fun drifting/rallying/snow is my thing thats all. Ill keep fwd for my daily. Rwd and awd will always be more fun to drive in my opinion. That is all folks
I completely understand your point. I think most interesting advances have been on the suspension for pocket rockets, hp hasn't hugely come up in the last decade for this segment but their ability to put it to good use has dramatically changed. I have a srt4 modified with tons of power, but try and steer that thing and you better have alexa setup to call 911 from inputs on an accelerometer for when you tip over a ditch. I have driven the new veloster and although there's not nearly as much power it does feel good carving in the road.
Last time I was this early, the whiteboard was still incredibly small
It has grown!
Awesome video, one of the few automotive youtubers that know what they are talking about.
wouldn't rear wheel steering actually help for FF cars?
I know a bunch of cars have had various forms of rear wheel steering, mainly in the 90's, and there are some advantages to having it...but the primary limiting factors are cost, complexity, and reliability, which is to say that it's expensive, complicated, and breaks down easily and often. As such, you really don't see it anymore.
It’d be good to point out why your point about front drive having better traction in snow doesn’t contradict your first point about weight transfer. The reason, of course, is that if you don’t have the grip in a car to generate significant acceleration (in the snow), you don’t get the weight transfer. That means you’re left with closer to the static weight distribution, and front drive cars have a lot more weight over the driven wheels than front-engined rear drive cars. Rear-engined cars of course combine this benefit with rear wheel drive. Where they differ is the driver can’t change the direction of torque to help keep the car on a cambered road at low speed in very slippery conditions - the rear of a RE/RWD car will often drift down the camber, just like a FE/RWD car. The other thing worth pointing out is that with winter tyres, whilst a FE/RWD car still has a relative disadvantage, there is enough grip and traction to get around - obviously BMWs are made in a snowy part of Europe, as were classic Volvos.
With front wheel drive, if you “lose it” in bad weather, you REALLY lose it.
With all those “features”, I’d expect that car to “be in the shop” a lot, if my experience with things like ABS and AC is anything to go by. . .
this just doesn't make logical sense since turning the wheel and stomping the gas in low traction with front wheel drive is more likely to get you back on track than a rear drive. you just can't be a dunce with your oversteering. also in almost all case this puts more weight on the drive wheels since they're directly under the engine and transmission.
makes me wonder why I see almost nothing but RWD cars spinning out during bad weather.🤔
Everyone has their preferences, simple facts are though fwd is cheaper to manufacture, depending on weight balance superior slippery traction and generally safer for novice drivers.
Almost any vehicle suspension can be improved to change the vehicle's behavior.
That being said I prefer rwd, sadly no sports car for me but I have tuned mine to be more neutral than typical.
Where I live we have lots of gravel, broken pavement, snow and ice and for me a neutral but stable platform is more important.
Electronic features are lifesavers but in my area they seem to fail far too quickly due to road and salt damage.
a sports car cannot be FWD......... by definition, a FWD car can be "sporty" but not a "sports car", two VERY different things.
On the street a sporty car appears to be almost a sports car. On the track it is obvious which is which.
@YMC-DAB420 no, what you just described is a "sporty" car. a "sports car" is by definition RWD or AWD..........its right in the fu%#$!@* dictionary, ffs man.
@YMC-DAB420 look it up in a dictionary, and if you dont know what that is, then id suggest you find a thesaurus and work your way up.
@@michaelxcx per Merriam Webster: a low, small, usually 2-passenger automobile designed for quick response, easy maneuverability, and high-speed driving.
Where does it say anything about RWD or AWD?
@@johnathanmoyer2375 as stated in the dictionary. a FWD car can be " sporty ", but not a " sports car "....... two very different things. if you don't know what a dictionary is then id suggest you get a thesaurus and work your way up, cheers.
The smile after that downshift and pull is from a real enthusiast 😄
"FWD sucks" - people who can't drive
Cant drive? you think driving RWD is easier than FWD?
Not even close lol. The people who can't drive think AWD is the best thing in the world. And typically own FWD because they're scared of RWD and can't afford AWD lmfao.
@@michaelallen2501 lmao if you can’t afford awd it’s kinda sad I’m 17 and I bought a used awd genisis sedan with a minimum wage job lmso
@@cameronknowles6267 whoa bud, we're talking sports cars and sporty cars. That pile doesn't qualify. That's like being proud of owning a Ford Escape.
@@cameronknowles6267 bruh calm down. Some people can’t afford certain things. Also certain makes or types of transmission, or engine layouts are more expensive in different areas.
I've owned two Porsche and multiple BMW M cars, and I love my Hyundai Veloster N with manual transmission.
If you want fun, drive your Miata. As you’re a young man with presumably a growing family, it will make up for the van you will need. ; ).
It’s impressive to think that Pontiac engineers used many of the same tweaks to make the Grand Prix GXP a well behaved FWD V8 sedan back in 2005. Wider front tires, Bilstein shocks, Magnasteer just to name a few.
Yes they are, the honda civic type R is a great exemple.
I hope Hyundai read this.
I have a Coupe/Tiburon. I love it.
I extremely, mega, desperately wanted a Genesis Coupe..
They never came to my country and seem to only be in the US.
I know from my Coupe/Tib that a front wheel drive car is great but.. The coupe feels like it needs RWD. It handles great and is reliable but the shape of the coupe just feels rear-end heavy. I would literally urinate out eggs of excitement if I could ever get a genesis coupe but I was born in the wrong country.
I see THIS car in the video on the motorway, only it's the fastback version! And I want it!
However, the FWD puts me off because of my experience in the Coupe/Tib. I want RWD burnouts and I want to do drifts, darn it! (on a track/skid pad, of course...)
Your point about FWD being hard to get right is something Hyundai have always been good at tackling but your point about it being less-expensive to implement leaves me feeling like my Coupe/Tib is a cheap car!
It is cheap now, obviously. But at the time, that was £17,000 and in today's money that must be £25- 30,000.
HYUNDAI. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE make a RWD funbox like the Genesis Coupe for the rest of the world. Make it right hand drive, manual 6 speed, old-school diff.. Please! Before electric cars take over let me enjoy some sick burnouts in a Hyundai Coupe...
Yes my megane 4 Rs 280 edc is a machine when it comes to corners and sounds amazing. I wanna put Michelin PS4 S and a stage 1 tune to it that make 310 hp and 440 nm.
Love my 2019 veloster ultimate with dct. Lots of fun and can be drive in michigan winters.