BAD TILES!!!- WOOD LOOK PORCELAIN
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- Опубліковано 25 лис 2020
- Porcelain wood look tiles are a popular choice for flooring and use in bathrooms. They come in common sizes such as 6x24,6x36, 6x48, and in this case 6"x40". The can be rectified or pressed edge. A rectified tile is cut on a saw at the factory to produce a straighter edge. A pressed edge tile has a rounded edge, and comes out of the kiln process and into the packaging. The problem with pressed edge tiles is that they can be crooked, bent, bowed, or cupped since the kiln process shrinks and warps the clay as it is fired.
Italian factory porcelain is usually regarded as the highest quality when compared to other countries of origin such as Spain, Turkey, Brazil, China, and USA. But in this instance, the tiles from this order were some of the worse I've seen. When placed back to back there was a 1/8" gap on the ends of the tile while they were touching in the middle. About 25% of the tiles in this order of 1300 square feet were bad, so we had to sort through them all and use the bad ones as cuts and other obscure areas like the closets. This created more work for my installers and lowered our profits. - Розваги
We just had our basement done with 6x24 wood plank porcelain tile from Lowe’s. We got them for stupid cheap, 37 cents a tile, so we got roughly 500 sq ft for not even 200 bucks. Many of the tiles were warped as well. My buddy and his dad are tile installers (his dad has been doing it for 45 years, did his apprenticeship in Sicily and whatnot), and I don’t know how they did it, but our floor is perfectly flat and it looks amazing. They told me that this is so common with the long plank tiles nowadays, especially when they are thin. They used so many spacers, which I think has a lot to do with it. Love the videos man! Been binging and learning so much.
By far the best video you've ever posted! That's right, manufacturers are building a solid foundation for their defense, so it's not their fault, anyone but them can be wrong. In 18 years of ceramic wall and floor tiles, I haven't even had an installation problem, but I have found a lot of irregularities in terms of flatness, dimensional deviations and even the lack of right angles! Good luck, you make a great think with all this education video!
Recently I noticed that this tile makers want us to do miracles with their tiles, there is su much we can do.
Great video and a fan of your channel and your work!!
THIS is SO true! But according to Martin Flores,"ur to follow the arrows make sure tile are set the same way keeping the tile in a perfect Pattern ." There is nothing perfect about most of the tile that any installer lays down. And hell no, arrows won't save you or somehow make anything perfect.
I always place the tiles face to face and show the home owner just how much bow is in the tiles. Then I explain that if I do my part perfectly they will still have this much bow.
Thanks Isaac for this info! We installed some Shaw Acacia Valley about 6 months ago with no problems. I did not know there was stagger suggestion and a direction they are supposed to go. Wish I could post a pic on here, but it turned out great! I'll be sure to look out for that info on the text plank tile we do!
You know it would be super cool if one of these days you could go to a tile factory in the US and show how the tiles are made and learn everything there is to know about the process. I think it would be super helpful to so many people, including installers like myself. It would also be a great opportunity to ask questions a lot of viewers might have about tiles.
how it's made has an episode on tile
Omg! I’m laying these tiles on my current job! I have also noticed a few are cupping also. I have installed about 700’ so far. I have 540 left and can’t wait for this one to be over. My tile supplier ended up giving me $2 off per square. 🤙🏼
Looks like they didn't just want to give the look of real wood... they also wanted to give you the physical attributes. Very accurate replication if you ask me! 🤣🤣🤣
Great comment, & so true, right😅
Except you can’t manipulate them straight
Isaac, the look in your face when you said, 2-4 in stagger for the tile.... But yeah, sounded odd when reading right off the box, AND they even had a pic.... 🤦🏼♂️
I guess I can image a floor set like that, but, in all my 20+ yrs; can’t recall ever seeing a floor staggered w/ that kind of offset.
Sure do appreciate the vids you make, & giving [US] a voice & making homeowners, manufacturers, installers, etc...aware of what happens w/in the trades industry 👍🏻
Happy Holidays ✌🏼
Thank you so much for this information. Shopping so extremely relevant for me
I’ve run into this exact issue with tile from Lowe’s. One of our customers had to have a specific tile they found there. It totally killed us time wise.
I say I’m disappointed with quality of tile on every job.
Definitely. Over last 15 years I've noticed even higher end quality has gone down.
Exactly
Why don't people just use carpet in their showers????
I’m a supervisor in the Las Vegas area and have come across this several times. Some as much as 1/4” off. Luckily I never had an issue returning it and getting a new dye lot.
This is the main reason iv'e stopped tiling big floors. To much hassle and always worried about comebacks. I now stick to shower/bathrooms, splashbacks etc. Tiling is hard physical work and i don't need stress on top of that.
I run into this all the time. You really have to talk and explain things to your customer, because usually they are clueless.
Dude! I am a novice and love the candid conversation.
If I was the customer I would expect a 30-50% stagger. What I learned is DON’T BUY the Italian tile you reference. Those tiles are a sure disaster with a less skilled tile team.
As mentioned in another post, I would love to hire a ‘student’ of yours to do my tile work in Orange County, CA.
Spacers are your best friend when you get such a bad tile. I'm a tile mechanic in New York. And as of last year and after working for a few tile companies for about 15 years I went out on my own. You have to mitigate problems like this and show the customer why you wouldn't be able to have a close joint on such tile. I find that at least 1/16 spacers will make your life easier and end up with a better job.
Tile laying has become a real challenge these days with larger formats and small grout joints. Retailers need to educate their customers on possible problems.
Hi TileCoach, thanks for making us aware of the problems with faulty tiles. I notice towards the end of video that the wood effect tiles have been laid. Was that already there or did you complete the flooring? Is there another video or update?
It doesnt say 6-10cm... It simply recommends .6cm on long joints and 3mm on butt joints. The 6/10 is a fraction with an arrow pointing to the longest joints on the installation. freaking guineas lol.. I've found on italian tiles they tend to interlock in only a certain way. spacing for me usually does not give a consistent result with these type tiles.i will however use wedge shaped shims where needed to keep my lines true periodically as i cover the floor... Always best to ask customer before installation. Ive never had that problem though. Great channel thanks I learn a lot here.
Manufactures all over the globe are putting out dogshit now and are doing everything they can to be free from liability.....Great video...keep them coming..
Greed within capitalism.
You are exactly right....We have the same issues and yes if you put it like they say it looks like crap......but if you don't..... Oh sorry, no warranty
thanks for share Tile Coach 💪👍👏
Got to make sure you install it in a way that you are comfortable putting your warranty behind the job as almost everything like you said has a loophole to get out of the manufacture covering anything ( usually never labour anyhow just materials!)
All tile installers really need to have a talk with your customers about expectations and issues before installing these wood look tiles.
We always do, specially when they get at floor and decor 😂
I have a ten page document that I attach to all of my proposals explaining questions and things for the client to be aware of. While many don't want to take the time to read through it, those who do really appreciate all the considerations and attention to the details.
People dont give a rip... they will just hire a hack who will install this substandard crap....
I agree, and if you set them as specified, and you are one mm(using metric because that's what they use)over or under, nope can't help you. You know the drill!
This has been a common problem with plank tile from day one. Ive been using the Ridgid Tile Leveling system with any plank tile 36" and larger. You can thread them down and pull them tighter to the floor but it only works if the tiles are bowed. If they're cupped you're SOL! lol
I've put in acres of that stuff. Here in the dust bowl (Oklahoma) it is really popular. I show people what it is like, ...warped, cupped and twisted,....they still want it, NO ONE has turned it down. You definitely want a grout that matches so the difference in grout width doesn't show. I run 1/8 to 3/16 grout lines. Most of it will look fine, but there will be a few rough spots, BUT you need to show the customer that before you start. The rectified edge stuff is a nightmare. It shows everything. I HATE rectified edge. I did 1 job with 5 foot long and it was surprisingly flat. I job with the 4 foot stuff (in my boss' house), we used a leveling system. Slower than molasses in winter but it was 98 % flat. The 4 foot long ones will bend a little. Some of them were flat for 40 inches and then went down or sideways. I've done lots and lots and lots of 3 footers. Some brands are decent, not great but decent and some aren't. A few (very few) are good. The 2 foot long stuff is LOTS and LOTS better. I have used some 7 X20 that was fantastic. ----
Almost all rectangles of any kind are warped. The distributors (IDIOTS) say that we just need to butter them up. ......yeah right. It is what it is, and all you can do is all you can do. BUT it is kind of depressing when you want to do a good job and can't because the material is so poor. I have over 43 years as a tile setter so I won't have to deal with this SHIT much longer.
Well have you retired? I need tile installer recommendations in east OKC for sure! Looking at building a new custom home soon!
The longer they are, the more warped they are!! I document that on all my contracts so that the client knows what comes along with warped tiles!
You basically write in the contract that if the tiles are big it's going to look crappy? And people sign the acceptance on that? I'd just return the tile and get another one that looks good.
@@MattCupan I add on the contract that there will be lippage up to 1/32" due to the warped tiles. I use clips and wedges to help minimize lippage. My clients want what they want!!! I only give my professional advise but ultimately they do whatever they want. Its their home, not mine!!
Done a lot of these wood look floors this year. They arnt so bad. They do bow but what i hate is the new wedge spacers they sell you on. It's a cool concept but its impractical. You will end up digging the plastic out. I got some of this wood look imma put down in my house soon. Gonna be a random stager and imma randomly bust some when i get them layed down. Pick out the little bitty shards the. Go back and grout it. Been thinking either hit those spots with glow in the dark or gold glitter grout.
I had this problem before I went crazy for 2 days till I figured it out from now on I just strip the cardboard off place tiles on flat surface & see which tile is small or bowed also some of those have a bow on top so just flip tile glaze on glaze too & try to rock them I got rid about 30% of the 3 Pallets I got
4:02 looks like the new apprentice did that grout transition
My old neighbor was a stone mason who happened to set tile too. He refused to buy any product that was not resonably consistent. He refused to buy from the big box stores. Said it was better to pay twice as much than fight bad tile or stone. The wasted labor killed any profit.
I've had issues with 12x24 porcelain on a number of occasions. Bent and warped. Couldn't get rid of lips on a few
Isaac,
I use to sell all types of flooring out of a small shop. What I can tell you is that if you ever read the warranty specifications as to what it covers you will find that the manufacturer does everything it can to NOT HONOR the warranty. In the carpet industry for example the warranty riders list out everything you are supposed to do in order for the warranty to be Valid. For instance the warranty does not cover road tar....hello just tell people you can't wear your shoes while walking on the carpet....because the tar residue from parking lot or the street will transfer onto the carpet and when they do a chemical test at the lab to find out why the mango juice you spilled on the carpet made a stain we will find road tar and it will invalidate the warranty. I use to explain the Warranties in detail to the customer and show them the riders....with that said I always explain to the customer the anatomy of a tile..how they are 80% straight even the Guage tiles are 9 out of 10 tiles straight. And the big box stores are 6 sometimes 7 out of 10 straight...thats why they are so cheap.
If you get some good leveling spacer. 8 per tile and you can get rid of most of that bow or crown in the tile. Also brick lay is going to look the worst. I do around 8"-16" stagger with 1/16 grout joints. I'll try and post some good pics of my kitchen floor
We recently did 2,000 sq ft of tile that was very similar, but the tile was also “cupped.” We were forced to use leveling clips. What saved the day was that we found a grout selection that was an exact color match, so the grout joint wasn’t visible.
Just ran into this exact issue with 6" x 36" from Virginia tile here in Michigan. Most frustrating thing. Tiles were bowed and cupped and warped l.
Great info and lesson to take to the bank!
When you install these tile do you use leveler system if do what type you recommend
Thx
Thank you MASTER!
How often do you get call back for small issues, and what is the biggest call back issue you have?
In Australia we are constantly trying make strawberry jam out of pig shit. You try and take pride in your work and a client supplies tiles worst then these and they job just doesn't come up good with any amount of effort .
I have run into standard 12x12 tile that was not square from Home Depot. Some of the tiles were off over a 16th of an inch and some were perfect. Very frustrating when trying to get a job done.
Maybe they are saying 6/10 of a cm between rows, as in 6 mm?
I had to open my joints up to 3/16 on that stuff and pop several lines and keep to them no matter what...yes, there will be 1/16, 1/8, and 3/16 within those lines
Hi I am a tiler I have been in the same situation with a bended tiles so I have to stop the job until we change whole plan with a new tiles
what is the gap joint and overlap they call for ? this is for sure 3rd quality
1/8 will result in a 3/16 or more grout joint
Thank you bro it's a good info
Pretty much all of the large form porcelain tile I've installed recently has been bowed like this. Seems to be worse on tile thinner than 3/8".
I was on a job doing a nicer hotel, new construction. I worked for the construction company but had almost twenty years experience at the time as a tile setter. Well the company had masons setting tile also and this reminded me of a room the masons had a high spot and they tried to put boxes of tile on the high tile to bend the edges down to prevent the lippage 🤣😂
Thanks for the info, I’ll be checking the install Instructions BEFORE I purchase the material. Two inch stagger, come on!
Wish I would've seen this a year ago. What's done is done for me now. Ah well. Good video btw
A good tiler will make them look good regardless, I’ve used these with 1:80 fall in bathrooms, don’t use spacers and pick a grout colour to match it. That or send them back..
The thing I find is mostly cupping with longer narrow format tiles. Also clients want to say money so they will buy or select the cheaper tiles and this translates to lower quality control. An informed client helps to properly set the expectations, but not always. If it wasn't for customers I'd be able to get some work done.
Do they all come that long? Would shorter ones bow like that? What causes bowing ?
your right with the loopholes theory
I have been seeing quite a few issues with products in general lately. Marrazi tile has been giving me some of the most issues
How did you handle the extra time issue with your customer? The additional labor will kill your profit on the job. Did you pass it on or eat it?
Thanks for sharing. I do a few tile jobs now and then and have run into these issues in the past. Have you ever run into a tile that won't score and snap properly? I had 12x12 porcelain floor tiles that would not snap in a straight line, regardless of how much of a score was on the face. The end of the tile would curve away. Ended up having to cut everything with the saw.
Hard porcelain cuts better on a wetsaw soft tile will slide cut but usually not porcelain
Are you familiar with the penny test ? It's where you slide it across a tiled floor and if the penny jumps it means the tile is not level. Even with the highest quality tile out there is there a such thing as perfectly flat tile ? Seems like no matter how much money you spend the tile is never perfectly flat and some pieces will have bows.
The stagger is to keep the cupping aligned. The short stagger allows the bends to line up better than if you have the valley of the middle meeting the hills at the ends. Just did one with a 3" stagger. It makes a strange but ordered look, with diagonal lines making their own pattern.
Just open the grout joint to 1/2 inch and call it rustic look. Lol
Get em coach!!
Make it work! I've been dealing with substandard materials for decades. You just have to make it work!
Sure that's what they did, they picked them out, they tried turning them around, saving the worst ones for cuts and for the walls, but it still sucks, nobody who's a perfectionist wants to leave behind uneven joints, but if the client buys the material then it's on them and you just have to notify them that the tiles are warped and some joints might not turn out perfect
All plank tiles are bowed and inconsistent, at least in my experience anyway. I've heard that when they're making them they cup when they are heated.
Quality info
Well, you wanted simulated wood 😮
Excellent lol 🤣🤣🤙🤙
Ahahahah that’s hilarious man
Lol
Everytime i install wood plank always a problem
I just spent the day dealing with this, also with quite pricey tile. I had to dry layout the whole floor....😣
why wasn't the tile returned for quality issues?
This is a common problem with plank tile. Ive been told it gives the material a more natural look. Who knows
What size are these tiles?😅
Dude I installed similar tiles on a job and it was a nightmare. Same type of problem for me
you don't make expansion joins between different tile transitions?
You do know the floor expands/contracts at the perimeter of the room. The doorway you just use caulk rather than grout where the 2 abutting coverings meet.
I see a few comments about bow tiles, the issue he is talking about is the edges guys, look and listen the real issue, jeez. He even lay it against the straight edge and then against the next tile, comprehension mode at their best.
Lol i know right.. people are so dumb
They do that with the stagger because they know it’s bowed that way your lip edge isn’t as saturated with highs and lows and lows on highs your middles were high stay close to your other middles aka the hi points
I run into this problem with 12x24 tile. There’s a few tile companies I found that are close to perfect. But when it comes to wood plank tile I just lay it randomly (like wood) and use the tile leveling system. That usually fixes the cup but the crown you just have to play with the tile and adjust it as you go.
Care to share some good brands? TIA
If you ues the clips it actually make it flat I work with this tile be4
We do 1/3rds staggered...(50/50 but on 1/3rds) due to bows in the tile and bad quality material and progressivly worse framers lol. the more we can eleviate lippage with less stagger per tile the better
Not an installer, but on a recent job at our house our tile installer spent three extra days cutting and trimming all the tiles for the job, we made sure he got paid extra for his commitment to making our final job look amazing. I wish I could post pictures of the before and after, most of the tiles were at least 1/4 inch out of square, some were much much worse.
Can you do a video on how to place floor tile in large open areas like this? How do you make sure tile lines are right when there is a room, long hallway, a “T” that leads to another room?
Most long tiles recommend 3/16 grout joints no reason to lay it likes it’s hardwood if they want the hardwood look then lay hardwood instead simple as that
We bend the tile takes time but any lippage system works
That’s got to be the smallest offset recommendation I’ve ever seen.
Put the straight edge back in the van,you have to be able to adapt to the expectations of 5he job ,the actual jobsite (whether the floor is level ,the walls square etc)..you have to be able to "cheat " the layout ,the joints the whole thing to some degree.Italian porcelain is punched out in some factory in the industrial side of Milan or some factory town near beside a port on the Mediterranean sea,the cook thousands of those a day,they're just tiles...I mean this respectively but part of being a tradesman is being able to sort that out ,use the material you've got and make it work.
May be you should switch to a Sri Lankan ceramic tile, which also has Wood-look tiles. Sri Lankan tiles have rivalled Italian tiles for quite some time now, at a considerable price difference.. RoCell is a popular brand of great quality.. LankaTiles too..
Thanks coach
I’ve experienced a bunch of cupping in my time but I find the Lowe’s Levolution tile spacers really helpful for walls and flooring this is not a paid add lol
I use spin doctors
You had me at customer wanting grout width "sixteenth or smaller". If cust ever said can you do grout smaller than 1/16 I'd hand trowel over to them.
This is a super common problem with tiles longer than 2ft. Especially "plank" tile.
Crowning and bows can be fixed with lippage clips, yes.
But a crooked edge there's not too much you can do but be particular about what pieces to set together and fudge the grout spacing.
You are out here doing God’s work lol. I’ve been thrown in the fire and given the task to install 3”X12” ceramic tiles in a shower. I’m doing a 50% stagger and I’m struggling with cupping in the tile as well as bowing in the walls. Any tips for me?
i am pretty sure, that they were saying not closer than 6-10 cm, which would make sense. Maybe just a bad translation.
Everytime with plank tiles those are actually pretty decent lol
That offset would look horrible. I’d just run a straight bond with the mess.
Those long skinny tiles are tough to keep straight during the manufacturing process.
I would have never started the job until that was corrected.
I would give the client the option (after discussing the situation), and only proceed once they made the call.
Hey fellas
That happen to me with another brand in Home Depot
I think that is the minimum stagger distance.
can confirm that is the offset in europe and it looks better than 1/2
What you saved on tile you'll spend on labor if not more