The Decline of Kingdom Hearts
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- Опубліковано 20 чер 2014
- This is a critical review/rant of the Kingdom Hearts series as a whole, but with a particular emphasis on the disconnect between gameplay and story in Dream Drop Distance, as well as an analysis of the general decline of the writing quality as the series goes on. It's not a traditional review though, as it assumes the viewer has some degree of familiarity with most of the games in the series. The style and format of the video is inspired by channels like Sequilitis and SomecallmeJohnny, so it may emulate them in certain areas.
Furthermore, I don't own any video-capture equipment for handheld games and wasn't about to replay the entirety of the series just to capture footage for one 30-minute video anyway, so all the video footage is taken from various other channels, I do not claim credit for them. Also, HUGE thank you to my buddy Eric who helped me physically put this together as I'm not even remotely tech-savvy and couldn't have done it without him!
Kingdom Hearts is the property of Square-Enix and Disney, I do not own any part of it and I did not conceive it, blah blah blah, please support the official release. No copyright infringement intended.
I'm getting a little tired of responding to the same smart-ass complaints over and over again, so if your comment is about my use of the word "masterpiece" or "spinoff" then please read the following before wasting my time:
Regarding the word "spinoff:"
I classify the games the way most people do. I am extremely familiar with the series lore and thus extremely familiar with how vital every single game in the series is to the overall plot. However, if you ask MOST people and even most FANS, they will classify every entry that isn't a numbered title starring Sora himself as a spinoff. That's just how most gamers refer to them and I'm simply adopting their label, not intentionally misrepresenting them or misunderstanding their importance. If everybody acknowledged them as "main" entries (which FUNCTIONALLY I agree they absolutely are), then people wouldn't be bitching about how long it's been since KH2, as plenty of perfectly important entries have been released since KH2. You're just reading too much into a throwaway label, geniuses.
This video is also aimed at people familiar with the series lore already, so the average viewer won't be misled by that comment regardless. They'll have enough experience already to judge the importance of the "spinoffs" for themselves.
Regarding the word "masterpiece:"
Right off the bat let me remind you that I said "in almost every way," I did not outright call them flawless. Regardless though, this is one statement I have since redacted. When I wrote this script years ago I was referring more to the feelings the games gave me - the quality they have that elevate them beyond the sum of their parts. In retrospect I should have known that the connotation of the word masterpiece was too strong and truly not deserved of the titles I was referring to, so I officially rescind that statement. Get the fuck over it and move on with the rest of the video. It doesn't single-handedly discredit the rest of what I have to say and there are much more interesting conversations to be had here. I promise that's the single most ballsy and ill-backed up statement in the entire thing.
Why is this the only video?
Your a good UA-camr
Chain of memories was a mistake and impacts not a lot to the story
I’m sad how well this holds up. :(
This man predicted the future...........
Nah haha 🤣💙 but ngl it’s fun seeing this after many years
23:16- "The nobodies have hearts now and Xemnas was just lying to them about it?"
Demyx: We do too have hearts! Don't be mad...
Dear God, Demyx was right all along.
Heck that whole clock tower conversation with Roxas and Axel after the Roxas boss fight made it pretty clear that they have some form of a heart
Didn't mind that part.
I did, however, mind the multi-asspull that Master Aizenort "revealed" -- quite a lot, actually.
greentoonlink it wasn't that they had hearts all along. Xemnas states that they don't have hearts, but they "form a burgeoning replacement". And I think it makes perfect sense. But no, they didn't have hearts, they formed them. I can accept this
Yeah. I like this because it shows Xemnas as even more of an evil sociopath than he was in KH2. Good stuff.
That's why i love em!
What I find funny about KH is how almost all Disney characters claim to be Sora's friends even after seconds of meeting, but the only real friendly interactions are with Winnie the Pooh.
Lol, I don't entirely agree with that statement, but I do see what you're saying - they definitely rush into calling each other "friends" overly quickly and unironically. I accept it simply because they don't feasibly have time to go through an entire unabridged movie's worth of adventuring together in every world they visit without the game becoming an obscene length, but they still want to establish Sora's allies as being "friends" when all is said and done haha.
I know, if they actually had the time to develop every single friendship in every single world it, the games would be just too long to even bother to finish, but it always bothered me a bit that they end up like the best of buddies or like if they knew each other for a time. At most, the disney characters (Or Sora at least) should be like: "Hey, remember that guy that we met in (insert world name here), he was a pretty cool guy." or "Hey, remember that Sora guy that came here? He was pretty cool dude."
Oh realistically, for sure. But this is a JRPG which brings the "power of friendship" shit up to eleven even for the genre XD
I know, it's funny but sometimes it manages to bother me a bit.
People can make friends faster than others.
Ironically, Maleficent forgot about her data world plan in 3. She's now obsessed with black boxes.
Yup, and she didn't even get that. Fantastic. I honestly don't know why Nomura even keeps her around anymore if he's not going to use her at all.
@@ThrillingDuck So, what are your thoughts on 3? Should we expect a video about it, or has it left you in some sort of "i quit kingdom hearts" mood? Because I think we could all use a fairly critical take on it, as the game has some flaws, but also some strong points.
@@Offbeatcat Definitely didn't make me quit KH lol but it's also got a swiss cheese level of plotholes, even if it isn't QUITE as egregious as DDD. I am currently in the process of scripting a video about it but realistically it will probably take a few months to come out since I'll be slowly learning the editing software and I'm currently away from home for work so the friend who physically edited this one isn't around to tutor me. I'm also playing the postgame and collecting Secret Reports to see if ANY of those holes are patched up by them, because they do usually account for 1 or 2.
I could do a lot more much more frequently if I was content to just speak into a camera but I like to have demonstrative footage of what I'm talking about at all times. Anyway thanks for the interest! Hopefully I'll have my thoughts out in the months to come and they'll still be relevant by then lol.
@@ThrillingDuck May i be of assistance? I would love to help you in scripting such a video.
@@Offbeatcat Haha I appreciate the offer, but scripting is the fun part for me, it's just the editing that's tedious and takes forever. I'm already halfway done with the script and know all the points I want to make :P
Put it this way, when you have a game called 0.2 final chapter prologue you know shit is outta control
Cash Brandicoot lmao so true
Cash Brandicoot actually it's 0.2 birth by sleep a fragmentary passage which is on 2.8 final chapter prologue....
There's not a game called "0.2 Final Chapter Prolouge"...
Oh my bad for not getting a stupid title for a shitty game wrong
Melleberg Awesome Sauce yes their is
Master Xehanort = how not to write a Magnificent Bastard.
We're told that "Xehanort is a devious tactician. There is nothing [you] can do that he will not, to some extent, be able to predict"… but shown a Villain Sue who keeps benefiting from asspulls, retcons, the good guys' dumb decisions, etc.
Couldn't agree more.
xehanort is just a perfect example of just how stupid this series has become
I have been thinking/hoping he'd get some expansion in KH3 where he should be the focus. In BBS his plan with Terra is just patheticly stupid and hinders on Terra being too dumb to figure out 1+2 doesn't equal fish.
Anti-Villain And somehow he didn’t have anything planned for the Guardians of Light left after he completed the X-Blade in KH3 and just ends up being teleported away easily by the Keyblade Wielders.
What’s weird is that Ansem and Xenmas are far better examples of devious bastards. With BBS’s backstory, we would only need Terranort to comeback as the main antagonist of 3 to have him ironically be trapped in the Darkness with Aqua at the end.
To think this video came out nearly six years ago now...
ThrillingDuck was an oracle. This series is the definition of wasted potential.
I hated Sora in DDD. I hate how he's characterized, I hate how he plays....Riku is infinitely better in every way in the game. I really wish the game had /just been from the perspective of Riku, trying to catch up to Sora in the trial.
It also makes more sense narratively, too. Riku chasing down Sora, unsure of what's happening to him and in the end saving him, is an exact role reversal of KH1.
indeed. and now that KH3 is finally out. it has been confirmed to be equally as poorly written as 3D. and in the end Roxas, Ventus, Lea AND sora are STILL NO MASTERS
They ruined Soras character in DDD and he never returned to normal
KnucklestheEcidna im sorry but why would Roxas be a master ? He doesn’t give a shit about any of that really , he just wants his life back and Xion and axel . Roxas doesn’t care about all that keyblade and kingdom hearts shit . Ventus in bbs wasn’t even close to being ready to take the test , he then fell asleep for years so why would he be ready to become a master . Axel ... come on now I don’t even have to say anything about him . The only person that should be a master is Sora but isn’t .
@@oKiirby ONLY 3 masters. being Mickey, Aqua and Riku. Nobody else are masters.
it wouldve been so refreshing for riku to only be the main focus
"You guys are self-taught Keyblade wielders, so it doesn't count. To fix this you're gonna teach yourself all over again anyway."
Lmao EXACTLY
Fun fact, only Riku would’ve done it because Yen Sid intended to help him deal with his darkness. Then Sora was shoved into it.
I never understood why I didn't finish DDD. This video explains it all. And the unfortunate fact of the matter is, we're never going to go back to KH2, KH2 will be the last great main entry game and with KH3's ending, that was confirmed. This video is more relevant now than ever before. Also, Maleficent does ABSOLUTELY USELESS IN KH3. Also also, that Google Maps joke was fucking gold.
Haha thanks man, glad you enjoyed it! I have a video on KH3 in the woodworks - should be out in the next week or two so if you liked this vid then stick around :)
holy shit this vid is 4 and a half yrs old but so right. 3s story was incredibly weak. i still found enjoyment from the game but 3 was way worse than 1 or 2 and COM.
I'm honestly surprised that this video has so many dislikes. I agreed with pretty much everything you pointed out, since I just played through the whole series again recently. In my opinion, the series could have ended after KH2 and I wouldn't have been disappointed.
Hey thanks man, that means a lot :) As long as the blade of the lightsaber is longer than the handle then I'm happy haha.
Not a problem! You made an excellent point about 358 especially, and after watching through it on 1.5, I agree fullheartedly about Xion. Birth By Sleep was pretty cool to me, but my biggest gripes were Terra's personality (even though gameplay-wise, he's my favorite to use) and Aqua's English voice being as grating as it is. As for Dream Drop, they ruined the masterpiece that was Hunchback Of Notre Dame, one of my all-time favorite Disney films. But hey, I'll give Nomura credit for the Fantasia world, that one was fantastic.
It doesn't really
54 dislikes is a lot apparently..
You forgot about the secret ending and it's strange to tell a person that when his nickname has the name "Vanitas"
Darkness within darkness.... Yep that pretty much sums up the quality of writing in this series.
@@davidjimenez3822 remarkable reference
We need a council of Disney villains again.
That was very scene that warmed me up to Disney being a part of the games in the first place. Too bad it was confined to the first game.
I think that KH fans just are along for the ride and wanna see what happens next. Thats pretty much it
This to a giant T.
My heart became atatched at a young age to sora's story in 1. More keep coming out so i wanna see how things progress. Be they bad games or good games....
Yes, This exactly is it.
I myself think the storyline as a whole is ridiculous af.
I still think the game itself is awesome tho because of the fact it's ridiculous af but it somehow still works.
Xavier Russell Isn’t that any story/plot/narrative ever though?
I don't know, I'm kind of getting fatigued with the whole thing. I really loved it when it was KH1, CoM, and KH2. It was still developing some problems back then, but they were minor enough to ignore or theorize away. But then as it continued it just kept lore bloating and adding unnecessary plot lines and extras (Roxas could have left the organization without ever having Xion if Nomura was even a half way decent writer). There is some retconning (though the die hards will ignore it), plot holes, inconsistencies, and stuff left vague because Nomura wants to still the next game before he's even thought about what he's going to write.
In retrospect, he's always done this, it's just been more and more obvious with every passing game and it gets annoying and exhausting. And a freaking mobile game is canon!
Eventually, you're left with two options:
1 - save your money from Nomura, who no longer seems to care about writing a good story and just wants to milk a cash cow.
2 - keep buying future games, but any time the game throws in some new random bs or another inconsistency arises (because the new story can't be bothered with fact checking), just sit there, don't ask questions, and just go "Okay, I believe you!"
The game engine is awesome though, as dumb as the story is in KH3, the game engine is the best out of all the games.
"Kill her, put her heart in this box"
"I dont understand?"
"awww.... I don't understand what's going on..." - Donald (CoM)
I guess it is more along the lines: "Yes you want her heart in the b... EXCUSE ME WHAT?"
This video is ahead of its time. People are realizing this now but 3 years ago when this video released the kh wank was still going
@Shaman X That's your opinion. But don't say that like it's a universal fact.
@Shaman X What happened to the Lingering Will?
Fast forward to post KH3 and the fanbase has entered a war.
@@Astraldymensions
One could say that the fanbase has entered a "Keyblade War."
I'll let myself out.
I could have wrote a bomb ass kh3. It would have been amazing.
I actually hate Nomura for ddd, worst shit ever. The man was on something during the making of that game.
Looking back on the series as an adult it's still unsettling seeing Goofy and Donald in the same room as all these serious Square characters.
@@Benjamillion Nomura should have stuck to just drawing pretty pictures instead of directing games. He's a fucking hack.
@Neptune Purple-Heart Okay, how do you mean?
@Neptune Purple-Heart Eh, same thing because they're both serious characters.
@Neptune Purple-Heart To you, maybe. Maybe I'm just not weaboo enough to be fine with it.
Wow, this was prophetic.....
Taylor Hertz facts just beat kh3 trash
KH3 seems like a dumpster fire
@Izuku Midoriya
Nah, Ai was awful & had the worst bosses of the console games. 3 attacks for each member & no revenge value wtf?!
I don't think it was that hard to predict that Nomura would fail
@Izuku Midoriya Yeah controls are really easy when you hold L1 and press the same Firaga bind over and over or do 1 combo and get 7 broken attraction commands
The first three games kingdom hearts 1, COM and 2 honestly work pretty well as a trilogy. Their self contained and their about one thing, Sora trying to find his friends while fighting the forces of evil and Kingdom Hearts 2 warped all that up pretty well imo. Anyone else agree?
Absolutely. Kingdom Hearts 2 was the perfect conclusion
That would be pretending that BBS doesn't exist though, or at least completely ignoring DDD.
@@razi_man Yeah, but those games are about other shit, while KH1, COM, and 2 had a simple and clean through line that links them together very well. Sora’s journey to reunite with his lost friends while battling the forces of darkness.
@@razi_man We didn't need a prequel explaining shit. The War, X Blade, Lingering Will could've just been left as ambiguous lore told in the form of legends and fairy tails that exist within the universe. Leave it up to imagination to explain that, Tolkien does that with LOR and look how that turned out. The more you explain, the more you restrict the story, especially if what you're explaining takes place before the main events.
Don't bother explaining it unless you've planned it all out beforehand, which Nomura clearly didn't (the fact Sora, Mickey, and Riku's keyblades show up in the graveyard during the KH2FM secret movie despite not appearing once during BBS shows this).
@Michael DMC3 and MGS3 would like a word with you
I'm just gonna say that I prefer the Keyblade as a elite core of warriors. It's better than just being for a "chosen one" in my opinion.
StrikeWing17971 but friendship power...
Speaking of Keyblades, am I the only one who wishes the X-Blade was just Ultima Weapon made canon?
Simpler to pronounce, actually original design, etc.
@@AntiVillain26845 I like that idea
@@AntiVillain26845 agreed. ever since i saw it i was disgusted by it. "lets just have two keyblades stuck together making an X (haha!) with a weird blade in the middle."
Apparently it isn't even all that elite.
Why this appeared on my recommended list just now?
Holy Shit i couldn't agree more, and now after beating KH3 those problems are visible more than ever
Same here lol and it’s unfortunate KH3 only made the story that much more convoluted overall then it needed to be...
Totally with you. This worst writing EVER has to be corrected!
The series started declining with 358/2 days when huge narrative inconsistencies were introduced and went unchallenged.
As much as I couldn't stand CoM's gameplay, it honestly had some great writing for a KH game. It was not only competently self-contained, but thematically sound. Everything from the Riku replica to Namine played into the idea of memory and oblivion.
Your review is seriously underrated and touches on a lot of the criticisms I have had for the series.
Thats the problem of milking. The more they do the worse and,in KH case,complicated it gets. This Xehanort storyline should have ended years ago. Square Enix skipped the PS3/X360 for whatever reason and kept milking the series with these lesser and unnecessary games so now we have a very big mess of a story.
I 100% agree with this statement.
The problem is that they milked him the wrong way so bad that New Xehanort (Ansem) suddenly doesn’t exist anymore.
It's getting really unprofessional how they keep retconning all this stuff into past games to add 'continuity' with these random ass side stories we never wanted and just makes the overall story confusing and sends it off track. In my opinion they should Keep KH1. CoM. KH2 BBS . 385 is optional as expansion to Roxas' story, and then should have just given us 3 already. It's impossible to keep up with half of the story now and doesn't even feel like the same story or game it started off as, in a bad way.
I was okay with how the plot went in a new direction with KH CoM and 2, but...
Playful Fruit What, you want it to be like:
Yen Sid: Sora, because of your efforts to save the multi-verse (let's face it, it's a multi-verse), Xehanort has returned.
Sora: Wait, who?
Riku: Returned? He's been around before?
Yen Sid: Yes, unfortunately we must act now to stop him, once again, his main goal is Kingdom Hearts.
Sora: Again!?
Riku: What should we do?
Yen Sid: You were supposed to be given an exam, but Xehanort has begun his plans earlier than we could manage.
Sora: So.........you're saying........we.......might lose?
Riku: It won't come to that.
-Cue all the events of NOT being able to get help from their predecessors, Sora failing to get separated from his Nobody, and abruptly end the story on Sora's death
You are basically trying to ignore setup and answers to questions we didn't even know were there.
Playful Fruit It's not really THAT hard to keep track of, just mostly ignore all the worlds except the original ones.
"They"? Tetsuya Nomura is the sole writer of the series and also, the sole reason the KH canon is such a badly written dumpster fire.
+Kenny Marcos obviously something was going to be necessary to link bbs to the rest of the series, it has literally no connection to the original storyline (1 through to 2) apart from some shoehorned moments like xigbar seeing Ventus in xion, ansem actually not being ansem or terra handing down the keyblade to Riku (which isn't even in the original storyline anyway) people like bbs because it was a genuinely good game and as a result they overlook the fact that it is just tacked onto the rest of the series then they wonder why DDD was such a mess when there was literally no where to go after kh2 so they just made bbs to manufacture some loose ends so they could make more games.
I like Birth by Sleep because of Vanitas and am *not* an Aqua fan!!
lol this guy is going to HATE kingdom hearts 3
Already working on my deconstruction of it lol
I know i did
@@wingrider3323 We all did.
I kinda liked it
(Pls don't torture and kill me)
Pootis Hoovy lol I LOVED IT
I really hate the ending in Dream Drop Distance where Yen Sid failed Sora at the Mark of Mastery exam and didn't make him master despite him completing the task that he was sent to do. It felt like it was the start of the bad decision making for the KH series and Nomura had no clear idea on what he was doing.
Question: How could Maleficent and Pete "invade Disney Castle" and hold Minnie hostage when KH2 clearly established the reason why they can't(which was the "Cornerstone of Light," for anyone who didn't play KH2)?
Did Nomura just forget?
LOL probably!
I think the way that this series could’ve been better-and hopefully will improve-is to give the three girls (Kairi, Xion, and Namine) actual character and ACTION.
Xion has a lot of character but not a lot of action we see, like you said.
Namine’s idea is really cool, but she doesn’t do anything, and her entire character is “sad blonde girl feels sorry for being mean to a kid she only somewhat knows”. She’s very abused by the organization but there’s nothing that she does.
But then, all of this could be forgiven because these girls are literally nonexistent for a good portion of the story. Like they really don’t exist.
But Kairi?
Holy shit. KH1 sure, she’s a little girl and doesn’t know any magic. KH2? She actually tries to escape but we don’t see her do stuff. But that’s ok. She gets her keyblade and doesn’t know how to use it. Understandable.
But KH3 Kairi has been training in a “space where time does not matter”. She was literally trained to be at the level of a keyblade master. And she’s got Lea/Axel to train with. But what does she do in KH3? Fights a horde of heartless off screen. Hits one runt heartless in the face. Gets smacked around and goes to Lea’s aid (do you not know Cure???) when he gets hit. During her fight with Isa, her combos are abysmal (just take a moment to actually step aside and observe her AI. And AI is no excuse cuz Roxas and Xion right after are way more powerful).
And she, despite being a former princess of heart, gets manhandled by a Tower of Demons AND Xehanort.
She’s one of the first princesses of heart, has a keyblade, and got training from Merlin himself-and she can’t defend herself?? Have her be the one in the Final World. Have her rescue everyone. Have her save Sora, who in turn calls everyone from KHX.
But no. She gets hit in the back, turns into crystal, and Sora has to save her heart off screen and now we have no idea where he is.
Aqua is a girl and she does a lot. And most of not all the fan base adore her. She’s fantastic. Why can’t the other main girl, the literal reason we go on this adventure in the first place, learn how to handle her magic flower sword?
It’s real sad
Couldn't agree more. I mean, I don't really feel like Namine needs expanding - her role in CoM was perfect but also too gimmicky to be useable in other installments - but other than that yeah, I agree 100%.
This video is 5 years old and very much still relevant. Sums up so much!
The stuff you talk about at the ending is pretty interesting to watch in hindsight. Seeing as later these would be issues everyone would bring up soon.
Also, this video helped me realize why Nomura didn't learn from his mistakes....he didn't know he made them. This had only gotten popular to say as the 3rd game was already in development.
One little thing that was weird, and rather unexplained in BBS, was the supposed Telepathy between certain characters. For example, Xehanort telling Terra to come meet him in the Keyblade Graveyard, while he's literally traveling between Worlds. Or Xehanort leaving the Land of Departure shortly after the test, and Master Eraqus trying to "connect" with him, but being unable to. Even Master Xehanort writing a letter to Eraqus is weird, because....uh....how is he supposed to get it? Is there a Fedex in the sky? Petty, I know.
Lol yeah, that's a good point. Upon reflection, the whole message in a bottle thing they did in KH2 didn't really make sense either -_-
Yeah, that's why you can't think about certain things in the KH series too hard, you'll hurt yourself. Just....assume the unexplainable is magic. Yeah, do that. Lol
@@galacticcactus5530 Okay, I believe you
ThrillingDuck Though, it is sorta implied that the waters of Destiny Islands and the Realm of Darkness are sorta connected somehow, with(at the time) both the bottle and the Master Keeper ending up on the shore.
@@ThrillingDuck We're talking about the series where a man made his armor sentient through sheer force of will, right?
Honestly, I think that was the point for 358/2 days and that's why I kind of praise it in a way. The whole game was a giant chore but that was pretty much roxas' whole purpose in the organization. He was their little slave/toy. The organizations goal just wanted to send roxas everywhere to simply collect hearts. Also the player felt how boring and lifeless it was for the life of Roxas. that's why Roxas left the organization. he said to himself like, "why the fuck am I doing all this boring shit." The game really gives the player the perspective of being Roxas and how crappy and boring his life was in the organization. he was just a tool for the organization and he was tired of it. I hope I'm making sense. :)
Haha, yeah I understand what you're saying but I just think there must have been a better way to do this that didn't hurt the player :P Cuz like again, Xion had the same tedious assignments as Roxas but she still somehow received an actual adventure of self-discovery between all of that. I don't dislike Xion fundamentally, but because they gave all the exciting bits to her, I feel like the game would have been better off if she hadn't existed...
That being said, I'm a pretty big proponent of games as art, so I respect your opinion.
Well Days, despite everything, reveals Roxas as a character and his friendship with Axel. For the 2 parts can not be said that they are friends
Yeah that's a pretty common defense of Days, and while I like Days, I'm more of a gameplay person. I don't think gameplay should ever be sacrificed for story. The game is still quite fun but I could've done without those forced stealth segments and possibly the worst boss in KH history (looking directly at YOU Ruler of the Sky)
On the subject...shouldn't it be called 358/3? Or more technically...358/0?
Since they're Nobodies?
...Get it?
Real talk, Kingdom Hearts 3D's story is something I watch when I want to laugh. I tell everyone that my favorite line is "I'm already half Xehanort" not because it's a good dramatic line, but because I piss myself with laughter everytime I hear is spilled out from the waste dump that is KH3D's story. It's such a clusterfuck of a mess plot that I can't help but giggle with glee everytime I replay the game.
The things you said about Terra helped me realized something. I've always liked Terra, but I'm not blind to writing flaw. You mentioned that Nomura wanted him to be a dark hero but that he never actually did anything evil. This makes me think that maybe that was Noruma's plan, but just poorly executed. Maybe he wanted Terra to be fundamentally good and someone who'd never choose darkness willingly. Because of the situations he's put in, Aqua and Eraqas doubt him anyway and this works on Terra's unstable beliefs about himself. Xehanort sees Terra's fears about darkness and makes him doubt himself also. Basically we have all three characters telling Terra he's darkness or doing dark things even if he's not. Tell someone they are something enough times and they will begin to believe it themselves, especially if they didn't have the confidence in themselves from the start. Just a theory that popped into my head about Nomura's possible intentions.
That's a really cool idea, and if that was how things had played out I would've been completely down with it. Alas, if that WAS Nomura's intention then he couldn't have executed it worse lol, though I also think it's worth noting that Terra would have turned out a very different character, insofar as he would still have ultimately embraced the darkness and perhaps become a true villain, rather than just a poor soul who got unwillingly body-jacked.
ThrillingDuck yeah, sorry, it’s been a long time since I played that game, so my memory may be a bit fuzzy. I would have liked Terra to be better because I do actually like him and think there was missed opportunity. Although with KH the term “missed opportunity” can be used to describe a number of things. Still a fan tho.
@@morandasavich9563 Couldn't agree more.
I’m far more disappointed that he was the compelling villain of Kingdom hearts then 3D pretty much reverses everything.
Here after KH3 annnddd you're RIGHT!
The story was trash...
It was still fun tho.
I completely agree lol. Oh well...
I hated how they back loaded all the good shit. I wanted ORG fights as we went like the other games. Like why didn't we fight marluxia in corona, vanitas in monsters inc, young xehanort in toy box, etc... ?
@@LunarEntity 100%
I disagree the story was trash. The overall story IS good. The PACING is awful.
@@chillociraptor5007 i think you mean the concept is good. The execution however was awful with its pacing
The newer games just don't add anything of substance to the story. When I go back and play KH1 and KH2 I still feel the same way I did when I played them _before_ all these other games came out. That's not a good thing. Honestly considering all the memes and jokes about how the series is so complicated, it really never needed to be like this. All these side stories and prequels actually explain _too much_ in my opinion. Most of this shit was unnecessary and I doubt when anyone was playing KH1 or KH2 as a kid we were thinking about any of this crap Nomura has been giving us. In reality those games were very SIMPLE, and that's what made them so great. Hopefully KH3 will bring the series back to its roots. TBH there should be NO MORE KH games made for handhelds ever again.
all the handheld games do is have bad technological limits that make the game feel horrible and it sucks. I miss being able to do combos like in KH2 all you can do in every game after it is like a 3 hit combo then throw out some overpowered magic or ability but KH2 let you actually do insane combos mixing physical grounded and aerial attacks and special abilities and magic and stuff and it all comboed into each other. plot in games is really important to me but when ur plot is gettin kinda stupid and your gameplay sucks the only thing keeping me playing these games is a terrible sense of series loyalty and praying it gets good again
@Shaman X See. I thought so. You're a fanboy who can't accept that people think the Kingdom Hearts series has flaws.
Interesting how we would come back to this comment after playing kh 3 and agreeing with what you said
I found KH3 to be wholly mediocre. The sheer lack of content is the thing that disappointed me the most. So many new powers and abilities yet nothing to really use them on. Basic combos and dodge roll can solve pretty much any problem you encounter. No arena, no superbosses, no data battles, no real challenge at all. All the worlds felt like complete filler, with only a tenuous connection to the overall story. Some org member appears and spouts some terrible dialogue only to vanish and leave you to fight some generic heartless. Remember when we actually got to fight the organization in KH2? Ahh, those were the good old days! The game felt like a souped up handheld game with console HD graphics. All those gimmicky minigames and filler sections that totally break the flow of combat were completely unnecessary imo. It felt less like the numbered sequel we all wanted and more like DDD just on console. Overall pretty lame. If this game had come out on PS3 I might not have been so hard on it.
@@theprocrastinator6813 Ikr 😭
I'm glad to hear you say what you did about 358/2 days especially about Xion, that game completely killed Roxas to me primarily due to Xion being who Roxas was supposed to
KH 3D is the perfect example of the KH-series shortcommings. It's more flash than substance and drags on the series needlessly. The writing is terrible and the main antagonist is especially horribly written (seriousl. Just make it so he has adapted his plan, don't make it so he has planned EVERYTHING from the start. That is stupid) The gameplay could have been fun, but the story is so bad that one is unable to enjoy the gameplay because they're to annoyed at eveything.
Yeah, it's absurd. Xehanort's plans are just a jumbled mess to begin with... why become a Heartless? Was it just a failed experiment of some kind? (I mean, obviously becoming a Heartless succeeded, but maybe becoming a Heartless wasn't the end goal there.) Why did his Heartless and his Nobody fail to work together? What exactly was Xemnas trying to do - was it all a total lie (in which case, shouldn't the groundwork for this actually have been laid out in KH2?) or did he really want to restore his heart for power (which makes the previous two points even worse)? How did he know to ambush Sora and Riku during their time travel journey - and why would he do so instead of just going after Sora when he was even more vulnerable (in Castle Oblivion) or just through normal means in the present, considering Sora just blunders into anything that screams "trap" anyway?
*_Just make it so he has adapted his plan, don't make it so he has planned EVERYTHING from the start._*
Nomura even admitted being an "adapted his plan"-style writer himself.
Hence suddenly trying to make Xehanort look like such an "EVERYTHING"-planner being doomed to fail.
Nyzer
1. He became a heartless and nobody to eventually be reborn and thus live to see the Keyblade War, which is what he wanted.
2. They didn't "fail to work together", they just didn't work together in general. Ansem was gunning for the real Kingdom Hearts, while Xemnas had his own plans of making an Artificial Kingdom Hearts, maybe just in case Ansem's plan didn't work out.
3. Xemnas was still trying to create an Artificial Kingdom Hearts, but the reasons why were different. He said he wanted to give everybody a heart, but his real reason was probably closer to Master Xehanort's.
4. He knows because he has probably seen the Book of Prophecies. He knows what's fated to happen, such as the Keyblade War, or the events at Castle Oblivion, and the Mark of Mastery they're going to perform. The reason he decided to attack there was because it would be a whole lot easier to get Sora to fall into darkness there instead of Castle Oblivion, and he wouldn't be messing with things that were fated to happen, because it was fated that Sora would fail and such.
@@Nyzer_ And let's not forget how this game renders the point of being a Nobody moot.
@@gatst7680 But why would Xehanort have the Book of Prophecies? He's never been implied to possess such an artifact. Also, I thought Ansem wanted to create an artifical Kingdom Hearts from the hearts of Worlds.
Real fans of the KH series hate KH3 because it didn’t make any fucking sense and everything was written terribly.
Exactly.I am a big fan of the series and KH3 was an insult to me,especially after all those years of waiting.
14 years to write something good.
@@tirrelljones3348 I agree.14 years and they couldn't come up with a decent ending to the Xehanort saga.
That’s also my opinion. I know the crappy lore like the back of my hand and the dissapointment with 3 was just crushing. I hate 95% of all cutscenes.
I’ll never forgive Numora for ruining Sora.
lol I'll forgive him if he fixes Sora
ThrillingDuck lol good point
@@ThrillingDuck Hope in one hand, shit in the other...
You just explained my issue with 358 when it comes to Xion overall as a character, what she went through, should've been Roxas' backstory arc, and no I don't hate Xion for that, just in hindsight was she really necessary for the overall narrative given again like said in this video Roxas should've been the one experiencing and doing the stuff Xion does.
Hell Roxas and Naminé could've had some kind of friendship before Chain of Memories and the story could also focus on him searching for her since those two parallel Sora and Kairi being their nobodies.
Agreed with the video almost entirely. But one thing I wanted to kinda try and discuss about, even if it's been 3 years from the video... The part when Maleficent invades Disney Castle... Didn't she do so in KH2 (not even with her physical body) only because of the seed she planted to remove the power from the big ol' circle stone of light, otherwise she wouldn't be able to even do anything to the place? And didn't we fix the issue in KH2, which comes before than 3D does? So how the heck did she manage to go there with Pete as if it was nothing and also take Minnie as a hostage...? That scene has always had me scratching my head more than all the others.
You're absolutely right, that's yet ANOTHER layer of plotholes and inconsistencies that it seems I missed. KH3D is so friggin' filled with them it's hard to keep track of them all 0_o
Yeah, while I enjoyed the game for how it plays (pretty much like with all the other games I played, only exceptions being 358/2 which I tried emulating but couldn't stand much and coded/re:coded because it was initially just for Japanese phones and when the remake came out I didn't hear any news because hearing anything about KH in Italy is like winning the lottery), the story was... ugh. KH was already "hard" to follow with all the things that happened after KH2 (or, to be honest, BBS which added the "you thought it was all coincidental but nope, it was all happening in the background after starting here"; liked what happened in the game and how it's somewhat more mature but hated that it had to complex things so much), but DDD? My God, if that's not confusing I don't know what is. The time traveling alone is absurd to include, but all the stuff that it breaks (or should I say retcon?)... I finished the game enjoying the gameplay, but wondering what the heck I just saw.
But well, 0.2 just fixed a lot of thi-- jokes aside, Nomura seems to love ignoring previous games and just put in stuff he thinks to be "cool" at the time, like Aqua suddenly helping Riku during KH1 for no reason and then causing that to kill the scene with Dix.
Let's pray KH3 doesn't try to hard and it simply has Sora saving his "friends", then fight the bad guys and that's it, 'cos I can't take any more crazy plot stuff like DDD tried to make the norm.
another point for kh bbs is that it fucked up keyblade back story
Exactly what was established as rare and mystical weapon that is very hard to receive and that one who gets it can shape the destiny of various worlds and individuals in ways nobody could before. Now it's a weapon almost anyone can get just by willing it.
It's such a shame that, after all these years, you're still one of the few people to point out one of the exact problems I had with 358/2 Days. The amount of fans that give Days a pass simply because everyone and their mom is a boner for Xion (even Nomura) is kinda astounding. So I'm not too surprised things ended up as they did by KH3.
I think one thing you missed in this vid is that DDD could have worked if it would have been more about Xehanort's backstory. His desire to leave, his fall to darkness would have parallel Riku perfectly (with DDD being Riku's game and all) and the use of Sora in the story could have been held used more effectively considering his importance to Riku. This could have allowed the story to explain more of why Sora is suddenly being targeted, how the whole "falling into a deeper sleep" works (because I still can't make heads or tails out of how finding the keyholes enabled that), etc.
weaknesses
Yeah, I've always been pretty neutral on Xion. To this day the sheer scarcity of time actively spent with other Organization members on actual missions in Days annoys me to no end. As for DDD, that certainly would have helped, but what it really needed imo was a ground-up overhaul. Preferably without any of the Dream nonsense for me personally.
Only reason we all still play this series is because of nostalgia. These days we are just waiting for the next turd to fall in the toilet because we are hoping it isn't a turd this time.
THANK YOU! My sister and I agree with everything you said. We had to search for a while to find a top notch rant that described what we've been noticing for years. You should do one about the new 2.8 ending, its just so bad :'(
I'd love to but I haven't actually played it yet XD I wish I could just download the Aqua chapter for a lower price, because I refuse to pay full price for 2 hours of new content, a movie I can watch online, and a remaster of fucking Dream Drop Distance haha. I'll play it when the price goes down...
Lily Kenney you mean the 0.2 ending? what's so bad about it?
The voice acting is so bad and feels totally artificial. The soul of all the characters seem gone. KH games are the most beloved of my life and usually a new cutscene would make me really happy and emotional, but Riku, Mickey, Kairi and Sora just looked and sounded so bad and their voices made me angry. Plus everything about Riku is weird, he seems hollow and like his character got lobotomized.
I wouldn't be surprised if much of that has to do with bad directing at this point. These actors have all proven themselves in earlier installments, but these days the older characters' actors are only called in to record very brief scenes out of context and the newer characters' actors aren't really given any series history before they start recording. There's a very distressing interview with Ben Diskin (Young Xehanort) regarding his time recording for DDD where he basically says that he asked the director "wtf is actually going on?" and the director literally laughed at him and said "it would take way too long to explain," or something to that effect. I love all the voice artists in the dub but the people actually producing it are clearly shamelessly disinterested in the material. I'm hoping that at least the main characters will give stronger performances again in KH3 when they have more of a journey to go through.
Read "wtf is actually going on"? In Young X's voice. I laughed. But seriously, the lack of enthusiasm from the voice actors is a pretty big nuisance. :p
Can you rant about how KH3 inherited some of problems that DDD had?
Working on a followup video. It'll take a few weeks but it's coming.
@@ThrillingDuck
I can wait for a solid video from you. Then you'll have TWO spicey vids on your channel
@@Astraldymensions Lol thanks! Maybe even three cuz this script is a fair bit longer - I might have to split it into 2 vids just for upload purposes. We'll see.
@@ThrillingDuck
Sounds good chief!
"Some"?
3ds was a mess. I been with the series since the first one came out and have since played all the games. I study in literature and writing(tho my grammar is awful) and I still to this day don't understand the hole time travel thing and the rules it sets in 3ds, are they travailing threw the past or the dreams of the past whats the differences and then there's Xehanort hole plan I still don't get what he did to make thing's happen other then he is back and wants light and dark war. And they turned Maleficent and Pete into the Team Rocket of KH why just why. Once again good review.
Oh yes. I love that series but my biggest problem with the story is that Character dont stay dead. I can not be to harsh on it because I love the Characters that return especially Axel but still its a problem I have with this series.
same here once they started doing the time travel shit it fucked me up lmao
SymphoniaFly basically summed up most of why I've come to dislike the Kingdom Hearts Franchise, ThrillingDuck pretty much hit the nail on the head. On top of their comment, I find that with Square Enix being a company that is able to produce games that easily go into the ballpark of 40-100 hours of content, at minimum, within a single game, mostly from the Final Fantasy franchise, but also Dragon Quest. Here with Kingdom Hearts, we have roughly 10-12 games within a single franchise and the one story still isn't finished yet. They may be important story-wise, but the management behind that could have been done a lot better than what we are given. The main thing that caught my attention was the gameplay, and my curiosity in Square bringing Disney and Final Fantasy characters together. Though the first 3 games had potential story-wise, the rest of the games kind of destroyed that. Gamers don't need a majority of those games in order to know what's going on. Instead it's nothing more than a train wreck that causes more confusion, rather than a clear cut insight on what's going on, and what needs to be done. With the story seemingly being sacrificed for the sake of putting out a game a year, from what it feels like. And the characters, with Riku being arguably the only one exempt from this, need better development. Sora goes from learning his role in traveling to worlds, to being more of a spitting image of Ash Ketchum in being more of a goof, over showing that he not only learned from his journey, but has grown from it. Terra, though seems desperate to be a Keyblade Master doesn't really do anything good or bad, let alone memorable. And Aqua does nothing but point the finger at Terra, with no evidence, with the only thing that she has to go by is information from strangers, who could be wrong, if not flat out lie to her straight to her face, that she has not only never met before, but knows nothing about. (I could go on about the characters) When it comes to a story, the creators should know to leave an audience wanting more, and that ship sailed in Square being in charge of KH as a whole. An interesting feature that I thought was good has having characters from different worlds be part of your part, something that I have notice Square slowly getting rid of, and yes I know that it's being brought back in KH3. Plus the fact that people have had to wait this long for the Xehanort story to supposedly be finished in KH3, it shouldn't take this long, or have this many games for one story to be finished.
Xehanort is a Black Hole Sue (meaning his presence warps plot reality).
As one person at TV Tropes put it:
"Eraqus and Xehanort were apparently close friends, but when Xehanort was essentially going to risk destroying the worlds, Eraqus tried to stop him. Xehanort blasted Eraqus with some dark powers in response, scarring Master Eraqus, but then the flashback ends. Friendship over right? Nope. Xehanort is allowed to preside in the Mark of Mastery Exam, and when some darkness sabotages the exam, Master Eraqus never suspected the transparently evil looking man that nearly doomed the universe and scarred his face with the powers of darkness, and blames it all on Terra. When he finally realizes that Xehanort is behind it all, he still makes stupid decisions, and ends up getting killed. The heroes are expected to beat a villain that downright cheats the narrative without effort?"
P.S.: That's not a proper Aesop on being too "absolute"; that's the plot actually justifying Eraqus's beliefs, but just pointing him in the wrong direction.
Utada hikaru is the real MVP of Kingdom Hearts if you ask me....
I'd argue Yoko Shimomura haha, but Utada's no slouch either.
The fact that they labeled this power of waking as the end all be all option in kh3 was fucking stupid. Sora should've gotten that before we started actually playing in kh3 with a cutscene or a tutorial. But no. Its one of the many objectives that last the WHOLE GAME.
Yeaaa kh3 must've had you pulling your hair out especially on the last World lol
Lol yup. RIP KH actually making sense.
@@ThrillingDuck unfortunately they're gonna milk this franchise to death til it stops selling
@@TheGmc1992 "unfortunately " i am laughing so much because me and a lot of "idiots" (what you PROBABLY think) are going to buy this games, because we like the good story, character and gameplay, there are somethings that are just bad but just a few.
Wendy Kelly I don’t think you’re an idiot, if you like more kingdom hearts games good for you, as a fan myself I feel 3 is the perfect way to end
TheGmc1992 Okay, then i'm gonna wish for what's probably gonna be Kingdom Hearts Versus XIII to be the best game ever made, gameplay wise and story wise, i really want to see everyone passionate about this series again, not a split fanbase on the games.
This aged well.
this aged well...
Why is this your only video?
Long story short, I really have no editing know-how of my own. This video was a passion project that I needed to basically rope a friend into physically putting together for me while I oversaw and directed it. The script is mine and the clips are all hand-picked by me, but it was my friend who actually spliced everything together.
I have a few other ideas for similar videos that I'd like to get around to making one day (in particular a decline of the writing in the Mario and Luigi RPGs), but until I have time to sit down and learn the software, it's just not practical. I'm a busy guy :P I appreciate the interest though!
nice observation lol
Someone had to do it.
_The prophecy came true._
Sir, I would just like to say as a long time KH fan, your video is very good, I thoroughly enjoyed it. I hope you make that other video about the ridiculous ending of Dream Drop Distance.
Thanks man, I really appreciate it :)
Dream Drop broke my brain with the whole time travel crap. I questioned it majorly and thought there were too many plot chasms with it. Yes, chasms, not just holes. Also, I was very disappointed that Riku wasn't Sora's party member.
I actually liked the idea of them both be playable in parallel stories haha but the time travel writing was swiss cheese for sure.
@@ThrillingDuck For me it was like poor Riku had to put up with so much bullcrap in the last several games and had to do the majority of it alone, now he's forced to go through more bullcrap while being mostly alone again. The guy still clearly has some level of PTSD about become one with darkness, that it would have been nice to see more bonding between him and Sora. Instead, Riku gets swallowed by a whale while Sora has fun at an amusement park; and Sora meets friends of Tron while poor Riku is arrested immediately and forced to play a death race. If I was Riku, I'd definitely be like, "This is some major bullcrap!"
LOL XD
I also agree with you about Terra, poor guy did nothing wrong, and was screwed over even bigger than Riku. He became my favorite character despite major writing flaws.
Oh yeah I mean I definitely wanted them to have partners to travel with. Sora could have taken Donald and Goofy with him and Riku could have taken Mickey and then they still could have had each world's local heroes in their party. That way the dual story could still happen but Riku wouldn't have to be all by his lonesome again lol.
@@ThrillingDuck Or the very least, I'd be happy if during the final boss fights for each world Riku and Sora would meet up and fight them together only to be separated again in the next world until they reach that world's final boss for "plot reasons".
And now the KH series has hit rock bottom completely after the terrible disappointment known as KH3 came out.
and then came KH3, which actually made things even worse.
The biggest thing this video taught me...
Is that I need to pressure my brother into finishing Sora's story in ReChain of Memories so he can play Riku.
Because we apparently both need some Dark mode and Riku/Mickey interactions.
Also, as a Sonic fan, *I feel your pain.*
I agree with a lot of this, and honestly, I think as a few people have said down in the comments, Kingdom Hearts is an objectively bad series. The writing is bad, the plot is convoluted, and the logic in the series just doesn't make sense. I concede all of these things...but I still love the series. It just... I dunno. I can't really explain it in a way that is arguable or logical. People have said the characters felt one-dimensional and flat, and I'm not arguing that, but for me personally, I still felt something in their interactions. It doesn't seem to me like something that is devoid of soul like a lot of critics claim it to be.
I just love the series. It might have something to do with the fact I grew up with it as a kid, that I have a high tolerance for convoluted plots, or that I actually enjoy a LOT of objectively bad games. Anyway, I talked myself in a circle, so apologies for that. This isn't a comment arguing points so much as it's a comment professing my love to this series.
Kingdom Hearts is a subjectively good series with an objectively messy story.
I feel the exact same way. It’s like I know the story and characters can be week and convoluted BUT I STILL LOVE THEM SO MUCH!
The story is garbage but you just have to accept that it is what it is. Basically one big fanfiction. I see it as wasted potential more than anything.
Your opinion of Kingdom hearts 3: I WANT IT! TELL US WHAT YOU THINK NOW!
Lol I appreciate the enthusiasm! I'm working on a followup video regarding KH3 right now actually, but it's gonna take a few weeks between my work schedule and the fact that I'll be learning to edit from scratch since someone else physically cut this video for me.
I agree with a lot of your points. Imo, the spin off titles after re:com made this series completely different from what it was at the time kh2 was out. At this time it was all about Sora Kairi and Riku and you felt that he is the protagonist while playing the game. Then we got bbs and the disaster that is called dream drop distance. Overall I was excited that the KH universe is being expanded and the addition of Aqua, Terra and Ven as well as the foretellers and MoM was also good. However, they could have handled this much better. After finally having played KH3 after more than a decade of waiting I must say that the story as it is now is disappointing in the sense that Sora is no longer as important as he was in kh 1 and 2. The story in KH3 basically felt like it completely neglected Sora and his whole purpose was basically just to save everyone and defeat MX but the way this was written was just poor. Storywise it lacks a lot of what made the KH series so great and KH3 focuses way too much on the side characters (also no playable destiny islands and no playable hollow bastion/radiant garden. Wtf Nomura?!). So basically Sora was more of a bystander in KH3 rather than the actual protagonist. Luckily tho with the Xehanort saga finally over and now having a new and in my opinion much better villain (Xigbar and MoM) I think that KH will return to its roots again. Nomura has written the ending of KH3 in a way that KH4 allows for a 'reboot' of the series to bring fresh wind into it and I'm really excited to see what the next saga will hold (hopefully with more focus and importance of sora).
The only thing I disagree with you on is the importance of Sora - he DEFINITELY felt like the main character to me in KH3 haha. Admittedly, he did just sort of pass through all the other characters' reunions but he was also the one who made them possible by being the only wielder to actually get anything done. Anyway thanks for your feedback! I'll have a video on KH3 posted within a week or two so if you're curious then stick around.
Damn, that's some really good shit. I hope you make more videos in the future!
Thanks, I really appreciate it!
It's such a shame what happened to Terra. Between his conflict with Eraqus/Aqua, his own sheltered nature from life on the LoD, and his own great fear of failure/darkness, we had the makings of a great tragedy. We got some of it, but not nearly enough.
Fans today might be able to finally alleviate some of the complaints that had been levied against him (You can almost say Terra isn't stupid in conversation now without having to back it up with an essay), but still.
You already mentioned Riku in 1, but I'd like to shed some light on another character I find him remarkably similar to: Sora from COM.
The two have their similarities. Both seek to protect their friends, end up falling prey to a cunning Mastermind's plans, and show themselves capable of intense wrath. The difference with Sora, however, was structure. Chain of memories had the mystery of the castle and the desire to rescue Riku/Namine. The story provided our hero a clear reason to keep going, and the memory loss situation (which is to say nothing of the Organization) worked to ratchet up the tension and make the off-kilter reactions/shifts away from the norm believable.
Terra ALMOST had that with Vanitas. Some outward manifestation of the thing he hates most about himself, and the thing that keeps him from fulfilling his dreams. In a better series, we could have had Terra chasing Vanitas down, trying to undo his messes, tracking him down in some meaningful way that would go beyond dicking around until the plot kicks in, and slowly losing sight of himself and becoming the thing he never wanted to be in the first place.
Oh that mention of the dream eaters. I felt the same. Instead the usual team ups (and I was REALLY looking forward to teaming up with Neku as a TWEWY fan) we got those crappy things. When I saw them on one of the little stat chooser things in 3, I looked away in disgust.
Dang, a lot of your concerns wound up coming true. Will you do another video, now that the game's been out for a bit?
Yup, working on it already, but it will take a few weeks to come out.
I liked the video and enjoying the content, keep up the great work!
I have to say, I started out a little concerned by some of your word choice usage, but you made a number of valid points. I remember seeing a Kingdom Hearts retrospective that mentioned how Roxas in Days was more akin to a child being led around until he suddenly snapped to his KH2 personality at the end, and your comment of "questioning but never learning" really resonated with me in regards to that.
I've also said that it's really lame that Xion experiences so much plot in Days that we don't get to see, a fact that's especially bad considering she plays exactly the same as Roxas! Why even have that as a thing and not take advantage of it in the story!?
Hey, thanks for sticking it out to the end despite some early turn-offs. I'm uncertain if you were referring to profanities or something else, but I was very much finding my footing in this video. I was sort of trying to emulate other channels with a very specific humor that just doesn't work without more complex editing and there's a lot of things I would have done differently had I made it today.
Anyway, if you're curious I made a follow-up video analyzing KH3 that's a MUCH cleaner product with a largely more dry analysis and almost nothing in the way of swearing and cringey shout-jokes haha. But regardless, thanks for watching this one!
This dude needs more subs
This dude needs more than one video...
1:30 Kingdom Hearts 358 / 2 Days hunting games especially Monster Hunter was on the rise. The mission structure and multiplayer aspect must be in consideration first: To make a Monster Hunter clone. The idea of the Organization XIII doing their work as hunters just so happens to fit with the PSO-style lobby waiting then mission select structure hunting games have. It's just a theory of mine, though, but I think the timing is too perfect.
I can't blame you for thinking the gameplay is full of chores. That is how hunting games work. Oh, Monster Hunter used to be disliked around 2004 - 2010 too until the release of Monster Hunter Tri (2010) in the west! Joy!
Interesting. As I don't play any of those games I hadn't thought of that. Doesn't really excuse it in my eyes but it does at least recontextualize it, so thanks for the new perspective!
Very good. I just wish most fans had the sense and maturity to tell between criticism and "hating". I imagine your comments are full of the idotic rather than those that recognize a decent and constructed point.
Hey thanks, although I've been pleasantly surprised by my comments section here overall :) I am curious about the dislikers though, as I don't think many if any of them actually commented.
Well that's good. Ehhh I'd be wary of dislikers. Usually they're the type to blindly ignore things and just argue with you with flawed logic like "just cause". You said it in your own video, Nomura and the team don't know what to fix because most fans don't correct them.
That's because most of the remaining fandom is hardcore and thus dont admit to it's faults. I've even seen some on forum sites (what's left of kh forums) regard the series as a "flawless epic".
Not all of them are that way but the dislikers and majority of the remaining fandom are I think.
Here's an example. I made a thing similar to yours once when I was on a forum but it was a mixed bag of results: forums.khinsider.com/kingdom-hearts-iii/209474-why-i-fell-out-love-kingdom-hearts.html
Oh my god. Dude. This editorial literally inspired me to write this script lol XD I originally wrote this video as an editorial and submitted it to khinsider almost right after I read yours years ago (and there are still remnants of that form in the script, as I didn't quite alter it perfectly to suit vocal narration), but khinsider never published it lol. So after a while I decided to get a more tech saavy friend of mine to help me put the video together. But that is so funny to be having a conversation with you now!
ThrillingDuck well I'll be damned. :D That's neat af!! I didn't encounter many that read it let alone any that were inspired. My threads on there rarely lived long. lol That's no surprise, the staff at KHi aren't exactly on the straight and narrow.
I've wrote more things since then but they're all on tumblr now since I find t hard to care about the series's past KH2. I've even quit following interviews since they and in-game Journals among other things are beginning to contradict. Then there's how some games can be off like KH2 has a few minor mistranslations and I recently learned one of the old KH forum translators weren't all that reliable.
And I know for sure the wikis are off kilter. It's just not worth following the minutes anymore haha
I do love vids like yours though and still find them if I can.
Haha well thanks again man :) My opinion diverges from yours a little in places, but fundamentally we see this the same way I think. I'm not gonna pretend that I've completely lost interest in the series myself, but I'm definitely lowering my expectations significantly going into KH3. I'll see the Xehanort saga through to the end at least, and then decide whether to continue or not. Seriously so cool talking to you though ^_^
I only keep following the story because of my curiosity. Personally tho, I think they should've just let the story ends in KH 2, anything beyond it from story perspective just keeps getting weirder and weirder imo. But at least we got more depth regarding the organization members as compensation with each story continuation.
I’m only 7 minutes in, but I’d just like to say I actually liked Terra’s indecisiveness because it made him more human than Ven or Aqua (at least to me anyway). He embodies the conflict people usually have when choosing between following what you’ve always been taught or trying something different you don’t fully understand.
It is very paradoxical considering his name implies he is the rock that grounds the trio.
Just wanted to pitch my two cents~
That's a very fair point, but as you'll see my real issue is the disparity between the way he behaves and the way he's treated. They don't match up and it makes no sense.
KH2's story wasn't convoluted. It was complex and thoughtful. It expanded on the first game in a way that made sense. DDD, on the other hand, is a convoluted mess with no clear direction in mind.
No it wasnt and no it didn't.
Agreed. First saying a nobody has no heart. In 3d, no I changed my mind. I think they do have hearts. That doesn’t make sense, since there are good guys in the organization that just go crazy, apparently for no good reason.
Wait, red hair... rebellious... Axel... Is Axel inspired by Axl Rose??!!
Crazelord91 that's a funny way of spelling Reno. but character wise, maybe.
I thought I was the insane one for having these complaints. People criticize kh endlessly, but I've never found someone sharing my specific problems with the games until now.
Sorry it's more than a little after the fact, but I'm glad! The whole reason I made this video was because I was so baffled that NO ONE online seemed to be complaining about this stuff after the game came out. Well, back then anyway.
This was an excellent video! I couldn't have explained it myself, but everything you said perfectly captured the decline of Kingdom Hearts! I also feel like the first three games (KH1, CoM, KH2) are the absolute best and the only ones that should be played; the rest should be left alone completely. The sad thing is I used to be invested in Kingdom Hearts, but after finding out from other fans what a colossal disappointment KH3 turned out to be when we waited 15 years for its release, I lost interest all together. It's funny to think that a few years ago, I was devoting time to playing through all the games (luckily I stopped at BBS).
Thanks so much, glad you enjoyed the video! Funnily enough I actually liked KH3 for the most part (though the writing still had some issues for SURE), but its ending was what kinda disengaged me from the story going forwards. And the DLC only made it worse for me lol.
You make KH's writing seem like it was some Shakespearean shit before DDD, which isn't true, I love KH but it's writing and storytelling have been consistently bad with only the first game being decent and realized, I guarantee you that Nomura makes this fucking story as he goes with no concrete idea of what he wants to do next, which leads to inconsistent rules being justified by yelling "FRIENDSHIP POWER", want proof that Nomura doesn't have a fucking clue about his own story? just take a look at the "Blank Points" scene and compare it to 0.2, it's pretty telling.
Hey, you don't need to tell me that the writing has gotten worse, that's what this whole video is about. I disagree with you with regards to ONLY KH1 having good writing - I think CoM and KH2 were great (as I stated), but I mean I believe you that he probably makes it up as he goes. Anyway, I didn't mean to make the early writing sound "Shakespearean," but I do believe that as a product the story and presentation elevated those early titles to a whole greater than the sum of their parts. The feelings those games gave me as a kid were completely unrivaled by anything in the industry. But I am a Disney nut, so take that as you will.
ThrillingDuck You know... You should make more videos.
MonsefMA This. KH storytelling is bad, I mean really bad. If someone really believes is a masterpiece I must asume their world revolves around japanese games and anime (before you say nothing, I used to be a fan of those things). The writing is so basic, unnatural and with so much exposition that seems to be written by an high school boy.
You should read my reply. Long story short I've long since redacted the "masterpiece" statement but I stand by my assertion that it is by no means bad. I strongly but respectfully disagree with you on this. There's plenty of bad storytelling out there in both western and eastern games. KH (at least the earlier entries) is not guilty of this.
Nomura is very much a Shonen writer. He's a character designer first and a storyteller second. KH's writing isn't nearly on Shakepeare levels, but the designs of the characters and worlds is fantastic. Nomura is a textbook Shonen writer this way.
Dream drop distance was the biggest fuck up in kingdom hearts
I agree with everything you said about Dream Drop Distance. Everyone I've talked to liked that game and I just don't understand why.
I let this garbage Story pass, because I was in the mind Set of "it's just a sidegame". I never believed this would carry on to KH3. I was so blind!
As much as Riku’s character got watered down in DDD, I did find myself enjoying playing as him so much more than Sora, and he still felt so much stronger and more adept in battle. His dream eater links being straight-to-the-point attacks instead of cutscenes and gimmicks was better imo, his upgraded dodge felt much more effective than “oh it’s the same dodge roll animation but slightly faster and sora lights up when you do it” and Riku also felt like he went through more difficult fights, like the Ansem boss rush and the black coat wearing boss with the purple all over it
I just replayed every single KH game and stumbled on this video, in which you made some really solid points. I consider myself a "more than casual" KH player, I mostly play it for the combat while the story is just and underlying factor. That's maybe why I can enjoy it so much: DDD, for example, has some crystal clear plot holes and problems, but I still had fun, I still enjoyed the game.
Could you give me some RPG recommendations that launched in the past 9 or so years?
Haha well I appreciate it, and as I indicated in the video I still fundamentally enjoyed the gameplay in DDD as well, I just am in it more for the story so that kind of hijacked my attention for the worse in that title is all.
As for RPG recommendations, I'm actually extremely picky when it comes to RPGs so I don't play an enormous amount of them (and again, I'm generally in it more for the story with that genre), but I'm inclined to recommend the 2 Baten Kaitos games for Gamecube since those are on the obscure side and I personally adore them, although it's worth noting that the combat is card-based which puts some people off. The combat isn't super complicated either but neither game has a single tutorial so you may wanna look up how to play online lol. I'd also recommend playing the original (Eternal Wings) BEFORE the prequel (Origins) as many of the fan-service character cameos are so young and insignificant in the prequel that you probably won't actually remember them by the time you meet them in the original if you play the prequel first haha. Plus, you really don't need to know the prequel's story to understand any aspect of the original - their plots are basically unrelated.
On the off chance you haven't played The World Ends With You then definitely play that - most people who enjoy KH enjoy that one and it's super unique in every regard as well - probably in my personal top 10 favorite games of all time in fact.
One unique but obscure title is Lost Magic for the DS. It's really more of a tactical action game with RPG elements and it damn well has flaws lol, but there's still nothing else quite like it out there, at least here in the west. And that's one where the gameplay overtakes the story as well.
A similarly fun but flawed action RPG for the GBA is Boktai 2: Solar Boy Django. It actually has a lot of thematic similarities to KH with the whole light vs dark thing, but it focuses on sunlight and life vs the undead and "dark matter." The solar sensor gimmick makes it much more palatable with a patched emulator than an actual cartridge though.
Oh and Radiant Historia is getting a 3DS remake - I enjoyed that one as well.
Any other RPG recs I can give are pretty mainstream honestly - Xenoblade Chronicles 1 and 2, Chrono Trigger's an oldie but it's very special, the Final Fantasy and Fire Emblem series have solid reputations for a reason, etc. I personally swear by the Paper Mario and Mario & Luigi RPGs as well. Persona 5 is on my radar but I haven't had time to play it myself yet.
Well listing that stuff was fun for me haha. Hope that gives you something to work with :P
ThrillingDuck thank you so much for taking the time to compile a list for me!
Actually the only one that I haven't played is Lost Magic for the DS, which I never even heard of lol
But you really have a solid taste in story-driven RPGs (I'm not that fond of Radiant Historia), I'm glad that you liked TWEWY, since it's one of my favorite game of all time. If it was fun for you to compile that list, maybe show me your top 10 (or 5) games for combat alone? ;)
It's funny that you mentioned persona 5, it just arrived in my mail today lol
Haha well thanks dude, you have great taste as well! I never meet other people who even know what Baten Kaitos and Boktai are, let alone who've played them :)
I'll mull over the top 5 combat games list and update if I come up with something, but I tend to prefer adventure games with basic action elements (ala Zelda) to combo-centric action games (ala Devil May Cry or Bayonetta). Regardless, definitely look into Lost Magic and give it a shot if you're curious, but also definitely don't overpay for it haha. I find it fun and I recommend it on its uniqueness, but it isn't really a "hidden gem" per se - it's a bit too rough around the edges to warrant that title :P
ThrillingDuck Baten Kaito is a little bit more well known and well received than Boktai, but I've NEVER seen anyone talk about Boktai, which is certainly refreshing :3
In combat games I usually tend to love loot-driven games (monster hunter) and/or games that have depth our fluidity in the combat itself (Kingdom Hearts, DMC). I'm waiting for your top 5, don't let me down :P
Also, as I was writing this, I remembered how much fun some loot-driven games are, any that comes to mind?
Tbh I'm not entirely sure I've even played enough combat-driven games to give you a primo list, I can only mention ones that I've played haha, sorry to disappoint. The Darksiders games are basically like Zelda meets God of War and I really like those. 2 even adds in some Prince of Persia elements. Okami is another of my top 5 favorite games of all time period and that's basically a Zelda clone with somewhat expanded combat as well.
Does Darksiders 2 count as loot-driven lol? I never finished Borderlands 2 but I like what I played. Same goes for Viewtiful Joe. There's also an amazingly fun Rogue-lite called Flinthook which I absolutely love, although the loot comes in the form of passive perks rather than new weapons and gear.
Genre-wise I'm mostly into platformers, action-adventure games and to a lesser extent turn-based tactical RPGs, so most of my game recommendations fall into those categories :P As I stated previously I do enjoy a good RPG or action RPG, I'm just really picky. I think Hideki Kamiya and Platinum make great games, but that combo-centric action genre just isn't quite my cup of tea, and frankly I'm not nuts about Kamiya as a story-teller for the most part haha.
Boktai forever though! Lunar Knights was a great spinoff, but I wish the series had more chances to evolve and improve, because while it WAS rough around the edges I really think there was something special there, particularly in the concept and character designs. And if the Switch ever gets Gamecube games on its virtual console I would totally double-dip on the Baten Kaitos games lol.
Blame Nomura. He is an edgy emo kid that doesn't have any idea how to write a story.
@Rei Naito And because of that Squeenix lost some of its brand power under Nomura's leadership.
Nemesis T-Type fyi, the same nomura wrote kh1 and kh2 and ddd. kh3, bbs and com were ok, kh1 and kh2 were brilliant and ddd was questionable.
Idk why people hated DDD I thought it was the best handheld by far it actually felt like a numbered titled for me cuz I played it for the first time on my PS4
Fr im still wondering why he would make a shitty mobile game plot related wtf
@@krusenator123 Because DDD brought time travel in series that was already convoluted and pretty much fucked up the story
I still think the games are cool and fun to play, but the story got so insanely convoluted. This is what happens when you stretch out a game over multiple "midquels"/prequels and concurrent games. Also it doesn't help actors quit/died along the way several times over. KH3 was conceived based off of fan reaction to previous games, as did the previous ones apparently because you know when they started KH they didn't have any of this Xeanhort stuff thought up.
Yeah it was a simple story with a great premise that offered potential for something more. However Nomura and others involved in the writing kept trying to build up already established plot element trying to make them bigger and more mysterious than they actually were and instead of finishing on one storyline they keep expanding upon, instead of just giving answers to questions they just add details that spawn more questions. They're is nothing conclusive in this story.
This is a well done video that digs in to the problems this series has narratively, albeit it aged a bit with the plotholes getting covered by KHUX(more of a band aid solution but it is what it is). Seeing you have a KH3 video you might have it addressed there. Surprised I only got recommended this now since I was really big on KH around 2014/2015 only getting back to the swing of things now that the whole series is on PC.
Great video. I agree. I got this in my recommended after kh3 conveniently and I know this was years before. Thought I have one defense for khDDD. That was the game that made Riku's story as a character amazing. His redemption arc per say and what made him possibly the best character in the series. He felt guilty that he stabbed people he loved in the back and for the things that he did. He was jealous of Sora and how seamlessly he connected with the people around him. There was also one small detail between Sora and Riku's stories. For the most part Riku either made mention to the side characters that he'd go alone or he was alone to begin with. There was no emphasis on friendship at all on his side of the story, just as they did with chain of memories. I do agree that he was delivered a tad blandly. He should've kept a bit of his fire and then toned down to the more mature version of him we see from the get go just the emphasize that character growth. I also agree with everything else. Great vid. Only small complaint is the cutscenes playing behind you with full audio as your talking over it make it hard to focus on your voice for headphone users.
Great video. DDD’s version of Sora had me rolling my eyes throughout the whole game. They made him such an idiot
Yeah ddd was the game that killed my interest for the kingdom hearts story. The spin off games after 2 were just so needlessly convoluted and over complicated. We didn't need 4 games after 2 to explain why xehanort is a bad boy. We didn't need extra motivation to want to defeat him.
All I'm gonna say is, have you seen Xehanort? I'd ring the alarm too if he were out of my sight for 15 consecutive seconds.
Eraqus was worried FOR Xehanort though, not that Xehanort was off molesting someone lol
@@ThrillingDuck Sounds to me like his concerns were terribly misplaced.
as a fan of this series i totally understand what you mean, my problems with kingdom hearts are pretty much the same. though i only watched the cutscenes for the two latest games on youtube and have never touched coded, i can say i am beyond pissed at what square and disney have done to it.
Even tho the story sounds like the crappy essays I write for college...
I can't explain why but it all just clicks.
That, or the only braincell I got left is getting ready to explode.
Well, that's what you should expect when Nomura becomes stupider and stupider as time goes on.
after a year of getting more mature, going back to this video. I can actually agree with you.
I have an idea that would've fixed DDD that would've differentiate Sora and Riku. As you stated what the writers wanted to show in Riku's growth in character, why not have Sora finally experience Roxas' emotions such as anger and rage as he goes through each world and gets frustrated when each Organization members appears before him like Xemnas, Marluxia, Xigbar, and Y. Xehanort show growth as he's experiencing emotions he never felt since Chain of Memories, maybe through each sleeping keyhole opened he experiences an important memory from Roxas.
Therefore you evolve Riku, but at the same time you devolve Sora so he can evolve later on. Yeah it won't look good since Sora represents the innocence and cheerful nature of the universe, but show even the most cheerful of people can get frustrated, angry, etc. which ultimately delves him into using dark power in the Xemnas boss fight, granted I'd prefer a DDD Marluxia boss fight since he manipulated and frustrated him before, but not to the extent of him giving into darkness.