I’m very happy that the A325 ended up actually rewarding for high pilot skill. This is as it should be. Also the game being balanced like this is very promising. SC needs to reward stick skill rather than bigger being better.
I agree, welcome additions to the graph. I appreciate the amount of work that went into this list. It doesn't present like a list made over hot wings and beer, but from hours and hours in the seat.. I'm partially colorblind so the green and yellow diamonds are the same... but does it really make a difference?
The coloured diamonds was a great idea to help people understand why they're not necessarily seeing the same results as you (so long as they're honest with themselves about their skill level!) Case in point, i fair far better in my vanguard than my avenger, so to me it initially seems odd they're positioned where they are. I know i sit at the lower end of the "trained" skill level, so this tells me that its a case of me not getting the full capability out of the avenger, rather than it being a worse ship The TCS thing is great for people learning too. Know you struggle with very fast fragile ships? well, look for something with a high S number.
I'll admit I lost it when I saw the 100 series So bad that you left it out of the 3.22 tier list and now it's better than the Gladius Also the Avenger being better than the ship that replaced it in-lore (Hornet) is ironic
TBF - you could argue in lore that there could be cost/service efficiency. Meanwhile Avenger is 'cheaper' because it's got a long history of service and is still at it's prime for being cheap given all the spares floating around.
Timestamps would be amazing. I was missing them too because I wanted to learn the names of all the ships and sometimes he is calling the ships by their nickname or something :D
@@Cyndernetic It is so annoying how easily the turrets/guns get destroyed, then you go to repair and see the 40k+ repair cost so you just have to claim it.
please make green and yellow colors more darker and whiter for deferentiation, i am colorblind for these colors... prefer darker green, and whiter yellow
I've been a Sabre pilot since she was introduced in the 2.x patches. I've been saying it for years, manuverability is king. The history of the Sabre (and medium fighters in general) proves it. In the 2.x patches, the Sabre was a god of the arena. She had a lot of things going for her at the time, but the main reason? She had gladius like manuverability, as advertised in the FAQ. Time went on, and the flight model was changed in the early 3.x patches, and they slowly increased the gap between ship "classes" to make bigger ships feel more "weighty". Her manuverability was reduced below that of a gladius, but only slightly. This put her at a disadvantage against an equally skilled pilot, despite her extra shield and gun, but you could make up the difference by playing to her advantages. Around this time, the number of medium fighters in competitive PVP dropped dramatically, and the gladius meta was established. There were brief periods of heavy fighter meta, but those were mainly component fueled, but mediums were all but forgotten. Eventually, the arrow was introduced, solidifying the light fighter meta. You still saw medium fighters in the PU, but they were almost nonexistent in AC, with the exception of a few dedicated pilots. Then came 3.14, when they adjusted all of the ships' manuverability to baseline 'archtypes', further widening the gap. This manuverability nerf killed the sabre, even though the 3rd shield was also removed at that time. I made an argument on spectrum at that time, that manuverability gaps are getting too large in general and used the sabre as an example, comparing it to the gladius in competitive PVP. It's only gotten worse since they've widened the manuverability and thruster power gap yet again with master modes and accentuated it with the low scm speeds. The recent F7 thruster bug shows how important manuverability is because this one bug made it go from at best a D tier ship to an S tier just by giving it the main thruster output advantage over all other ships. The bottom line is that ALL fighters have WAY too much of a difference in manuverability. The difference between archtypes is too linear. There needs to be a much smaller delta between interceptor, light, medium and heavy fighters in general but also there needs to be an overlap in flight characteristics so that light/interceptor fighters are not automatically faster and more maneuverable than medium and heavy. They already have a considerable size advantage. Medium and heavy fighters need to have some advantages in different flight characteristics to have options in a dogfight. Mass is just a single part of Newton's 2nd law of motion, one that can be counteracted by thruster force. Manuverability is king for a dogfigter.
God I know right, it makes me worried that yogi doesn’t “get it” The ship that can choose when and how to engage will always win. The only thing big planes have going for them in a WW2 dogfight setting is speed and energy retention. In MM, big ships have neither. Hopefully they figure it out
Sabre was "god of the arena" for the very reasons you just stated. It was OP af. You know it, I know it, everyone knew it. Those days are gone, and writing a novel isn't going to change that. Medium fighters won't dogfight with lights. That's how it is man. Sabre was "king" because it has that firepower, the double shields (actually it had THREE iirc?) AND the maneuverability to boot. Stealth also actually was a thing back then, where now it's not a thing at all. You just gonna have to adapt and accept bud. Size should not be dog fighting 1v1 with smaller ships. Otherwise, there would never be any point at all in ever flying a light fighter. You sure do like to cream all over the Sabre and medium fighters in general, while completely neglecting the other side of things. That side being that small fighters were basically completely worthless. Either way, Sabre isn't worthless. But you're absolutely delusional if you think you should be able to dog fight in a stealth medium fighter.
@@MagSidious Just so we're perfectly clear, you just put a WW2 aircraft, up against a modern day fighter, and are relating that to a fictional video game that takes place in space? I got that right? You just did that? lol
@@helloitsjay38 I thought the Valkyrie can do that; it just doesn’t have a cargo grid, no? I honestly never looked into it other than on Invictus showroom floors.
@@Thoringer nah you can fit up to an ursa rover into it. Ballista/Spartan/centurion don't fit and the nova tank sure as hell doesn't. Hopefully they add some kind of heavy lift module to it later or give it another pass to make a bigger cargo bay because I love a good dropship.
Great work. It mus have been a ton of work to get all of this tested and evaluated with this new interesting scoring system. It would be super interesting to see a video where you give feedbackbon what to tweek at specific ships to balance them out a bit more. Cheers
The 325a is my fav ship, this might just be the patch where i go clean out the server and block grim hex for hours :D. Only problem: Flight is 80% less fun now.
Is it safe to assume that this list is based on everything having Omnisky cannons? Because in this patch small ships with repeaters are about as threatening as old people with no teeth, just gums. Insanely hard to put a tier list together with all of the variables in this patch, so thanks. PS - I vote that the Sabre Firebird becomes the default PvP ship in AC. Fights between Firebirds should last a good long time. ;)
Outstanding video (funny too!) and I love the new experience triangles and TCS classifications. My gratitude to you and Avenger Squadron for all of the excellent research. This breakdown has helped me solidify my ILW shopping list :)
Love the video - just as a bit of feedback the diamonds in the top left corner were very hard to tell apart for me (am colorblind). Would it be possible to use like green, blue, red and white for example in the future
@@Avenger__One That would be perfect! I really liked the way you classified them and you went over it in detail for each ship so I never was wondering but I sometimes save screenshots of the final tier list for reference! The skill required, threat-control-survivability really added a lot to the list! Big ++ from me man! Thanks for all the conent you put out for noobs like me to go from green to yellow and beyond haha
So happy to see the Buccaneer in S tier. It is about time she spent some time in the lime lite. I bought this ship at concept and loved it back in the 2.6 era
it makes me laugh that (at the highest skill level) the M50, a mere racing ship, has consistently been near the top for the longest test of time. -Alien ships were top a long time ago due to their unique weapons. -the gladius and the arrow competed for the top for a large portion of this game's life. -the hornet stood as king with the f8 lightning hot on it's heels. but despite all the buffs and nerfs over the years, the only ship that has consistently stayed somewhere near the top (at the highest skill level) was the M50.
As a new player this is super helpful! Gives me an idea of what ships can do and what roles they fulfill without grinding 100 hours to buy them in game.. I had no idea why I was better off in a C1 spirit than my Scorpius 😅 and honestly still don't but I'm gettin there
The Skill Diamonds are a great addition. It gives you a better idea of what ships you should fly (if you are honest to yourself about your skill level).
I like the idea of red skills level to get to A and S. Wonder how the meta will change when damage is modelled by ship part instead of a total bag of hit points you drain.
Showing TCS and pilot skill is really awesome. Much appreciated buddy I love your work there. (RIP to my mate who bought the Syulen starter edition :D)
Question: @AV1 you have consistently talked about skill expression. Now that you have incorporated that into your ranking system, it’s obvious that to get A or S tier performance in general, you are going to need something fast and agile. How are you feeling now about the potential for pilot skill expression with MM as it’s shaping up?
Why? It's accurate. With equal pilot skill, it will lose to all of the ships above it. Which lines up with roles and expectations, it's an attacker, not a fighter.
The Hornet Ghost is currently missing the -40% signature modifiers in 3.23.1 PTU, and in fact actually gained a +13% modifier with the rest of the Hornet family (mk1 and mk2) 😭
so granted a few of these aren't technically fighters (Gladiator, A1, Eclipse, and probably the Ares are "bombers" or "attack"), so it makes sense they'd be in low tiers for dogfighting, but what might make an interesting topic is this: how would fix the ships that ARE supposed to be superiority fighters like the San.tok? I was thinking just give it insane maneuverability, even if the winglets are blown off, and some alien hand-waveum about gravity generators so the pilot has a higher blackout threshold? Love the vid, A1
When you talked about the Scorpius, and rate it 9/10 firepower, was that only for solo pilot without a turret gunner? Because if it has a turret gunner, I think it would have far more firepower than the F8, which you rate 10/10, since bigger guns and a lot bigger capacitor.
Really appreciate the TCS and skill badging, made it much easier to manage expectations on where I would sit relative to those with more/less experience.
Engine size category should be dominate in determining a ships top speed. Mass should be dominate in determining a ships acceleration. Ships like the Vanguard should be very fast in a straight line, but not accelerate well. This should be true for all ships from a hover bike up to a king ship.
For myself the Hornet Mk II is way better than it has any right to be, but its single biggest flaw is the fact that the moment someone sneezes on your turret hardpoints you've lost those guns and can't get them back without repairing them.
This is a great assessment of pvp fighters in the current master modes style. The skill colors and numbering system really help with understanding the tier choices. My ships were chosen for the old flight system and it looks like I'll have to make changes. With Invictus coming, players might be able to build a chain of upgrades that allows them to try out the cheapest fighter, upgrade to the next higher priced ship, try it out, upgrade, etc. It's great to see that the Buccaneer is a top dog now but CIG's buzzword of the month is 'balance' and they're probably going to balance the Buc down.
I always am a sucker for a ride when it comes to the Archimedes. I've used it extensively to mock and absolutely destroy people and even whole gangs around Hex in anything from 1v1 to 1v4 in 3.22. Good to see it's still at least as good as it was in 3.23 - haven't gotten around to play too much lately. To me, the Archimedes feels sublime and completely natural to fly, unlike the Fury. I love it as much as my Z4M in real life. :D
As an Beginner-Rookie pilot I really appreciate this list and its extra criteria for pilot skill. I really want a Raven and/or Firebird. That said it looks like I'll need to do some serious research and practice to get the best out of them. Thanks
I would like to see a tier list for the Ship Guns and FPS guns in 3.23. Thank you for the updated 3.23 ship tier list. Also, there is the Sabre Firebird that spams missiles which competes against the Talon Shrike in terms of total missiles count.
Really appreciate the effort you put into testing an analysis. Also, got a whole new respect for the M50 after doing the Pirate Gladius challenge. A small flight of those will absolutely ruin your day.
Awesome vid. Like the new changes to the tier list with the diamond and score. I'm surprised to see the buc up there considering how bad it was and it's crazy to see the titan and 325a in A tier haha that gives new players a really viable pvp ship
Actually - the Anvil changes are exactly why I've stopped buying ships with new money. I hate the fact that I never know from patch to patch what my ships are going to be like.
It's going to be interesting to see your video on an updated tier your list if they make changes to master modes which I hope they do fairly soon. Crazy seeing the buccaneer on top considering it's the one shipping game you can probably buy with food stamps at Hurston..😂
"If you get hit by a Size 9 torpedo in an Arrow or Bucca.... That shouldnt happen." I flew into one once during evasion of shots due them being super slow lmao
LOve this video. Can you do the same thing with PVE? Also, on your scoring, I prefer language like Attack Value, Maneuverability, and Defense. (since 'threat' depends on which seat you are in)
I’m a B tier flying F7A Tried to play with and against you in AC , was hard but good for learning. The only bad side was hearing you making fun At me somethings during fight , but I guess if I was as good at you fighting less skilled pilots I would have troll a bit as well , who knows. I’ll keep learning and fighting the best I can and hopefully one day it will work
Yo! I totally feel this. I think Avenger's a little far removed from what playing in the beginning feels like. You have the right attitude. Just take what he makes fun of and improve on it. Also, we can join forces in pu sometime, hmu!
@@Avenger__One I don’t take it personally I guess , I will as I said keep dying again and again to improve. But I can be hard to do you best and hear the man smashing you laughing about that on live. Last day you were alone with all the dude in the other team focusing you as usual. I did the best I could to be a “ok B tier wingman” tried to stay as close as possible to you and give the support needed and then you said "ok I’m alone on this game wtf are the others doing". With 25 to 30 fps on some maps / mouse keyboard / and no head tracker sometimes it’s hard. And doing the best you can to be ok and hearing someone laughing at me wasn’t the flight experience I was expecting, specially when it’s from a coach. Still a subscriber , still left a like and talking about you to people who wants to be better at the game everyday. when you are alone with no Avengers pilots near , it will be wise to take this time to help people who are trying to give you and hand you instead of bashing them. I’ll see you on the field sir !
I think one of the best things about the TCS score is that for a lot of players who don't have a lot of ships, or have flown all these types of ships, it can give them a basic starting point on how they might want to start fighting that type of ship based on your TCS score vs their TCS score. So, for example, if I am in a Hornet mkII and you are in a 100i then I already have a pretty good idea I might want to start fighting you using extensions.
Well done sir. Your TCS scores will change reviews for sure. I am especially grateful for the confirmation bias that I have going on with the ships I like :)
I would argue 1v1 is the most common type of fighting that happens. Bounty hunting especially. Pirating to a lesser extent. Group fights normally only happen in orgvorg fights and the very rare encounter of a trader with escorts. This is coming from someone who plays daily with a large org. Now group fights can happen naturally in the pu but in my 4 year’s experience they are once in a blue moon
Absolutely perfect video, thanks A1. This must have taken a lot of effort, and it's the best tier list vid I ever had the pleasure to watch. Lines up with my experiences and the skill rankings make it possible for me to create a general idea of how each ship performs, just because I flew some of these and I can compare. Thanks!
the way you have laid this out is fantastic, i would say i'm a rookie as i know how to fly as a basic level with maneuvers, though maybe a beginner as i don't really do combat to any degree that much. my favourite looking combat ship is also the F7c/a MkII but i with the the guns you got as standard on the F7c MkII were the turretunder the nose, i really don't like having such big guns on the really thin wings, either that or rather than having the nose turret and top turret all the guns were under the wings, i understand why there are wings on the skin in general but i think they look too flimsy to actually hold the guns that are there.
Kind of crying in F8C and Scorpius now! :-) (Especially the F8C will definitely still have its place in a squad, but needs protection.) Thanks very much for a tremendous effort putting this together.
Great job with the TCS addition, really looking forward to the bigger ship list. Hope it includes ships like the MSR, 400i and non battle ships as well
I think one thing to consider for other pilots is, will you be pvping against other pilots in s tier ships or randomly running into lower tier ships / large ships. The interceptors are basically meant to dominate fighters, whereas fighters are meant to take each other on and assault slower ships. When you rate them based on their intended use, it changes up the tier ranking.
Newbie question: Is this list applicable to PVE? I'm a rookie level player trying to grind bounty hunting missions with a fully upgraded Tana and a Cutlass Black. Getting my butt kicked if I aggro more than the target at once. Missiles don't seem to be as effective as they were before. Little VLRT ships soaking up like 10 missiles is ridiculous.
Did you guys know the raven emps can be staggered by keeping one disabled the first blast? Its so funny on pirate swarm. Every time one emp fires the other one starts charging.
As a returning rookie the diamond colors and discussion are amazing. Im well aware that some ships would take a lot of practice to unlock their full potential and shouldnt be my priority to grind, this is a really helpful conversation for this very topic
TLDR: Any Red can beat any Orange. Any Orange can beat any Yellow. Any Yellow can beat any Green. ("CAN" not necessarily "WILL") For any conflicts within the SAME COLOR: see the ship tier list.
@@Avenger__One we chased each other for a bit at trading shots , you lost part of a wing I lost a turret. We went out of bounds then i got 3rd party. Spawned back but you were gone . I will say I can appreciate the Buc's ability to keep distance. The name was spelt the same, but if it wasn't you no worries. I'm enjoying stepping into the pvp side of SC.
![THE 3.23 META YOU NEED TO KNOW! [StarCitizen]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/8-IElUJOOB4/mqdefault.jpg)
0:00 E Tier
1:00 Iconography
2:45 Ares
4:44 origin
6:22 a1 spirit
8:07 eclipse
9:34 F tier
10:57 pisces
12:01 D tier
12:09 Hurricane
13:11 gladiator
13:57 cutlass
15:19 SAN.... you know the rest
15:59 mustang
16:03 aurora
16:49 Tana
17:27 C tier
17:34 arrow
18:42 Sabre
19:10 F8 Lightning
20:35 vanguard
22:08 hawk
22:58 glaive
23:41 blade
24:19 B tier
24:28 Mk II Hornet
26:18 Fury
26:45 gladius
27:01 MK I Hornet
27:48 Scorpius
28:58 Defender
30:36 Khartul
31:50 Talon
32:36 A Tier
32:40 125a
35:12 325a
35:53 Avenger
36:57 Archemedies
38:35 Sabre Raven
39:44 Firebird
40:38 Mantis
42:21 Razor
43:18 S tier
43:27 Bucaneer and M50
Thank you!
Much appreciated
I’m very happy that the A325 ended up actually rewarding for high pilot skill. This is as it should be. Also the game being balanced like this is very promising. SC needs to reward stick skill rather than bigger being better.
champ
Goated 🐐
Love, that you put so much thought into the skill diamond and TCS-Score. Makes the tier list so much more meaningful.
Best change ever. Now I know if a ship is S tier, maybe still not for me.
Thanks, great list, the TCS and pilot skill are welcome additions
+1 really valuable info there!
I agree, welcome additions to the graph. I appreciate the amount of work that went into this list. It doesn't present like a list made over hot wings and beer, but from hours and hours in the seat..
I'm partially colorblind so the green and yellow diamonds are the same... but does it really make a difference?
I look forward to the bigger ship tier list and their survivability against fighters.
I've turned to using the Connie for HRTs.
@@shamanahaboolist corsair does em too as long as you dont eat a missile volley
Yes, this is a great idea. I'd love a "pro" pilot's viewpoint on ship survivability.
Same! Master modes isn't perfect at all, far from it, but it sure as hell shook up the meta 😂
@@curveofsound Seeing a 20 minute A-F tier list turn into an hour long tier list with 5+ dimensions with just 1 update is lowkey great to see, 10/10
The coloured diamonds was a great idea to help people understand why they're not necessarily seeing the same results as you (so long as they're honest with themselves about their skill level!)
Case in point, i fair far better in my vanguard than my avenger, so to me it initially seems odd they're positioned where they are. I know i sit at the lower end of the "trained" skill level, so this tells me that its a case of me not getting the full capability out of the avenger, rather than it being a worse ship
The TCS thing is great for people learning too. Know you struggle with very fast fragile ships? well, look for something with a high S number.
It's a great idea. I can't tell the colors apart though. 😅
I'll admit I lost it when I saw the 100 series
So bad that you left it out of the 3.22 tier list and now it's better than the Gladius
Also the Avenger being better than the ship that replaced it in-lore (Hornet) is ironic
TBF - you could argue in lore that there could be cost/service efficiency. Meanwhile Avenger is 'cheaper' because it's got a long history of service and is still at it's prime for being cheap given all the spares floating around.
Hornet F7A atm has 0 threat, the turrets die in the first couple seconds haha
Also: WE NEED TIMESTAMPS!
Is that true? i actually didnt have much issues with downed turrets so far.
Timestamps would be amazing. I was missing them too because I wanted to learn the names of all the ships and sometimes he is calling the ships by their nickname or something :D
Literally only had my turret die once
@@quantom6 I've not lost a turret either, but my right wing seems to be a goddamn magnet.
@@Cyndernetic It is so annoying how easily the turrets/guns get destroyed, then you go to repair and see the 40k+ repair cost so you just have to claim it.
“Banana Defender” 🤣😭💀
please make green and yellow colors more darker and whiter for deferentiation, i am colorblind for these colors... prefer darker green, and whiter yellow
Arrow pilots feeling like how us Sabre pilots felt years ago
I had a group of npcs on foot nearly take me out the sky whilst flying my pisces into a compound. It really does have hilariously low hp
I've been a Sabre pilot since she was introduced in the 2.x patches. I've been saying it for years, manuverability is king. The history of the Sabre (and medium fighters in general) proves it.
In the 2.x patches, the Sabre was a god of the arena. She had a lot of things going for her at the time, but the main reason? She had gladius like manuverability, as advertised in the FAQ.
Time went on, and the flight model was changed in the early 3.x patches, and they slowly increased the gap between ship "classes" to make bigger ships feel more "weighty". Her manuverability was reduced below that of a gladius, but only slightly. This put her at a disadvantage against an equally skilled pilot, despite her extra shield and gun, but you could make up the difference by playing to her advantages. Around this time, the number of medium fighters in competitive PVP dropped dramatically, and the gladius meta was established. There were brief periods of heavy fighter meta, but those were mainly component fueled, but mediums were all but forgotten. Eventually, the arrow was introduced, solidifying the light fighter meta. You still saw medium fighters in the PU, but they were almost nonexistent in AC, with the exception of a few dedicated pilots.
Then came 3.14, when they adjusted all of the ships' manuverability to baseline 'archtypes', further widening the gap. This manuverability nerf killed the sabre, even though the 3rd shield was also removed at that time. I made an argument on spectrum at that time, that manuverability gaps are getting too large in general and used the sabre as an example, comparing it to the gladius in competitive PVP.
It's only gotten worse since they've widened the manuverability and thruster power gap yet again with master modes and accentuated it with the low scm speeds. The recent F7 thruster bug shows how important manuverability is because this one bug made it go from at best a D tier ship to an S tier just by giving it the main thruster output advantage over all other ships.
The bottom line is that ALL fighters have WAY too much of a difference in manuverability. The difference between archtypes is too linear. There needs to be a much smaller delta between interceptor, light, medium and heavy fighters in general but also there needs to be an overlap in flight characteristics so that light/interceptor fighters are not automatically faster and more maneuverable than medium and heavy. They already have a considerable size advantage. Medium and heavy fighters need to have some advantages in different flight characteristics to have options in a dogfight.
Mass is just a single part of Newton's 2nd law of motion, one that can be counteracted by thruster force. Manuverability is king for a dogfigter.
God I know right, it makes me worried that yogi doesn’t “get it”
The ship that can choose when and how to engage will always win.
The only thing big planes have going for them in a WW2 dogfight setting is speed and energy retention.
In MM, big ships have neither.
Hopefully they figure it out
Sabre was "god of the arena" for the very reasons you just stated. It was OP af. You know it, I know it, everyone knew it. Those days are gone, and writing a novel isn't going to change that. Medium fighters won't dogfight with lights. That's how it is man. Sabre was "king" because it has that firepower, the double shields (actually it had THREE iirc?) AND the maneuverability to boot. Stealth also actually was a thing back then, where now it's not a thing at all. You just gonna have to adapt and accept bud. Size should not be dog fighting 1v1 with smaller ships. Otherwise, there would never be any point at all in ever flying a light fighter. You sure do like to cream all over the Sabre and medium fighters in general, while completely neglecting the other side of things. That side being that small fighters were basically completely worthless. Either way, Sabre isn't worthless. But you're absolutely delusional if you think you should be able to dog fight in a stealth medium fighter.
@@braize6279 Absolutely spot on! That's why P32 Mustangs blast the shit out of F22's.....wait a minute.....
@@MagSidious Just so we're perfectly clear, you just put a WW2 aircraft, up against a modern day fighter, and are relating that to a fictional video game that takes place in space? I got that right? You just did that? lol
I’ve always liked the 125a. Bed, interior, and it’s competitive now🤙.
Addition of 'TCS' and diamonds is great, adds a huge amount of _context_ which is often missing in theae sorts of ranking vids. Interesting stuff.
New slogan for the Hurricane: "Anvil! The thing the hammer comes down on! Prepare to get pounded!"
Serves them right for what they did to the Valkyrie. How do you make your drop ship unable to carry your own line of armored vehicles?!
@@helloitsjay38 I thought the Valkyrie can do that; it just doesn’t have a cargo grid, no?
I honestly never looked into it other than on Invictus showroom floors.
@@Thoringer nah you can fit up to an ursa rover into it. Ballista/Spartan/centurion don't fit and the nova tank sure as hell doesn't. Hopefully they add some kind of heavy lift module to it later or give it another pass to make a bigger cargo bay because I love a good dropship.
@@helloitsjay38 well, with the NURSA rover, that’s all you need now ;-)
Great work. It mus have been a ton of work to get all of this tested and evaluated with this new interesting scoring system. It would be super interesting to see a video where you give feedbackbon what to tweek at specific ships to balance them out a bit more. Cheers
Avenger, can you make your own list? Of how you would want ships to perform rather than what we got now?
I bought a sabre back in the day thinking it would be air superiority fighter and turns out its junk.
Great video A1! Thank you so much for the insights. I flew the Bucc for the first in 3.23 by accident and immediately like, this feels amazing!
The 325a is my fav ship, this might just be the patch where i go clean out the server and block grim hex for hours :D. Only problem: Flight is 80% less fun now.
Same here... Let's just hope they fix the HUD on the 325 this patch! XD
Yeah i am so glad the luxury fighter with an interior is now usable. Love the thing!
The TCS rating and skill diamonds really help translate your thought process on each aircraft. Great video A1
Is it safe to assume that this list is based on everything having Omnisky cannons? Because in this patch small ships with repeaters are about as threatening as old people with no teeth, just gums. Insanely hard to put a tier list together with all of the variables in this patch, so thanks. PS - I vote that the Sabre Firebird becomes the default PvP ship in AC. Fights between Firebirds should last a good long time. ;)
Yes you want to use meta cannons, on all ships
@@Avenger__One How can I know which weapons are META in 3.23?
@@bootchoo96 omnisky
@@starbreaker_zed OK? For every size and ships? What about ballistic? Where can I find the info and why is omni the meta?
@@bootchoo96A1 has another video explaining this. Basically Omnisky have better range and damage potential, which is all that matters.
Outstanding video (funny too!) and I love the new experience triangles and TCS classifications. My gratitude to you and Avenger Squadron for all of the excellent research. This breakdown has helped me solidify my ILW shopping list :)
Love the video - just as a bit of feedback the diamonds in the top left corner were very hard to tell apart for me (am colorblind). Would it be possible to use like green, blue, red and white for example in the future
Dam dude I didn't even think about that, goof idea, I'll put a little number inside the Dimond to tell if it's level 1-4, 4 being expert
@@Avenger__One That would be perfect! I really liked the way you classified them and you went over it in detail for each ship so I never was wondering but I sometimes save screenshots of the final tier list for reference!
The skill required, threat-control-survivability really added a lot to the list! Big ++ from me man! Thanks for all the conent you put out for noobs like me to go from green to yellow and beyond haha
Great video, thanks ! The TCS score and color-coding for skill is a great idea. I wonder in what direction CIG will take master modes...
So happy to see the Buccaneer in S tier. It is about time she spent some time in the lime lite. I bought this ship at concept and loved it back in the 2.6 era
2.6.2 bucc flier and stayed loyal this whole time. Finally got our ship back
it makes me laugh that (at the highest skill level) the M50, a mere racing ship, has consistently been near the top for the longest test of time.
-Alien ships were top a long time ago due to their unique weapons.
-the gladius and the arrow competed for the top for a large portion of this game's life.
-the hornet stood as king with the f8 lightning hot on it's heels.
but despite all the buffs and nerfs over the years, the only ship that has consistently stayed somewhere near the top (at the highest skill level) was the M50.
As it should be, money well invested. ;-)
Some day they will remove the guns and missiles on the M50 and it will be still impossible to kill a m50 in a dogfight ;-)
@@Traumglanz It'll be the run away-er's choice :)
Appreciate your content. Puts a lot into perspective when looking for a ship at my skill level.
As a new player this is super helpful! Gives me an idea of what ships can do and what roles they fulfill without grinding 100 hours to buy them in game.. I had no idea why I was better off in a C1 spirit than my Scorpius 😅 and honestly still don't but I'm gettin there
The Skill Diamonds are a great addition. It gives you a better idea of what ships you should fly (if you are honest to yourself about your skill level).
I like the idea of red skills level to get to A and S. Wonder how the meta will change when damage is modelled by ship part instead of a total bag of hit points you drain.
Based on this, the Hornet Mk2 or Hornet MK1 are probably the ships for me. The highest up the tier list that are easy to fly.
Showing TCS and pilot skill is really awesome. Much appreciated buddy I love your work there. (RIP to my mate who bought the Syulen starter edition :D)
Syulen still is an epic ship, just use it for chilling and vibing around the verse, no combat 😂
Question: @AV1 you have consistently talked about skill expression. Now that you have incorporated that into your ranking system, it’s obvious that to get A or S tier performance in general, you are going to need something fast and agile. How are you feeling now about the potential for pilot skill expression with MM as it’s shaping up?
We have a long way too go, and ALOT OF improvement tbh
Wow you really stepped it up a notch with this tier list. Fantastic work!
Ion in E detected, opinion rejected
Why? It's accurate. With equal pilot skill, it will lose to all of the ships above it. Which lines up with roles and expectations, it's an attacker, not a fighter.
Blame Yogi. CIG has a weird hate boner for the Ares. I feel sorry for the poor ships.
Before 3.23 I'd agree, it was one of my favorites. Was. The ship has been butchered.
I've had no issues with my inferno taking out everything that's not an arrow or something in similar speed.
The ion rework made me stop playing sc for 2 months now…
The Hornet Ghost is currently missing the -40% signature modifiers in 3.23.1 PTU, and in fact actually gained a +13% modifier with the rest of the Hornet family (mk1 and mk2) 😭
so granted a few of these aren't technically fighters (Gladiator, A1, Eclipse, and probably the Ares are "bombers" or "attack"), so it makes sense they'd be in low tiers for dogfighting, but what might make an interesting topic is this: how would fix the ships that ARE supposed to be superiority fighters like the San.tok? I was thinking just give it insane maneuverability, even if the winglets are blown off, and some alien hand-waveum about gravity generators so the pilot has a higher blackout threshold? Love the vid, A1
When you talked about the Scorpius, and rate it 9/10 firepower, was that only for solo pilot without a turret gunner? Because if it has a turret gunner, I think it would have far more firepower than the F8, which you rate 10/10, since bigger guns and a lot bigger capacitor.
Solo pilot
@@fredjones2841he mentions the turret gunner, I don’t even think he’s got a solo scorpius vid
Really appreciate the TCS and skill badging, made it much easier to manage expectations on where I would sit relative to those with more/less experience.
Engine size category should be dominate in determining a ships top speed. Mass should be dominate in determining a ships acceleration.
Ships like the Vanguard should be very fast in a straight line, but not accelerate well.
This should be true for all ships from a hover bike up to a king ship.
For myself the Hornet Mk II is way better than it has any right to be, but its single biggest flaw is the fact that the moment someone sneezes on your turret hardpoints you've lost those guns and can't get them back without repairing them.
very well thought out and argued. thanks for putting the time into this. great refresher.
This is a great assessment of pvp fighters in the current master modes style. The skill colors and numbering system really help with understanding the tier choices. My ships were chosen for the old flight system and it looks like I'll have to make changes. With Invictus coming, players might be able to build a chain of upgrades that allows them to try out the cheapest fighter, upgrade to the next higher priced ship, try it out, upgrade, etc. It's great to see that the Buccaneer is a top dog now but CIG's buzzword of the month is 'balance' and they're probably going to balance the Buc down.
I see the Gladiator is still in the middle of it's 10,000 year penance for being the most OP ship ever in Alpha 1.1.1.
Lest we forget.
Shhhh, even reminding CIG could trigger more nerfs.
I always am a sucker for a ride when it comes to the Archimedes. I've used it extensively to mock and absolutely destroy people and even whole gangs around Hex in anything from 1v1 to 1v4 in 3.22. Good to see it's still at least as good as it was in 3.23 - haven't gotten around to play too much lately. To me, the Archimedes feels sublime and completely natural to fly, unlike the Fury. I love it as much as my Z4M in real life. :D
As an Beginner-Rookie pilot I really appreciate this list and its extra criteria for pilot skill. I really want a Raven and/or Firebird. That said it looks like I'll need to do some serious research and practice to get the best out of them. Thanks
Missing time stamps is like doing an A+ homework but forgetting to turn it in.
I really love how you have graded the ships(formula).
I would like to see a tier list for the Ship Guns and FPS guns in 3.23. Thank you for the updated 3.23 ship tier list. Also, there is the Sabre Firebird that spams missiles which competes against the Talon Shrike in terms of total missiles count.
Really appreciate the effort you put into testing an analysis. Also, got a whole new respect for the M50 after doing the Pirate Gladius challenge. A small flight of those will absolutely ruin your day.
Awesome vid. Like the new changes to the tier list with the diamond and score.
I'm surprised to see the buc up there considering how bad it was and it's crazy to see the titan and 325a in A tier haha that gives new players a really viable pvp ship
Who knew a spaceyacht and a bed would one day be among the most competitive fighters out there 😂😅
When you mentioned a hammerhead seeing an eclipse, an allstate commercial played. The timing could not have been better, lol.
The Skill Diamonds and TCS scores, are great additions, definitely helps, thanks!.
Great video. This is you at your best, sharing your expert knowledge with the community. Thank you!!
Great vid A1. Informative, charismatic, and you have a great editor.
I wish I could hire an editor
@Avenger__One keep pumping out great content and im sure you will
Finally, the 100 series gets some respect on it's name
love it thanks for the video avenger.. gone are the days.. of gladius and arrow.. atleast I still have my titan
That is super HIGH tier Tier list! Man, you are the best SC streamer.
Im angry at cig about the f8 with MM and hornets
Thanks for this. Its always good to check the tier list like this after a major patch.
i love my syulen (though anything else is easier to land) and it also dies fast... but it aint that bad (it is) but you know it really isnt
Love the addition of the skill level colors. It really helps.
Love the TCS and color diamonds great addition
Actually - the Anvil changes are exactly why I've stopped buying ships with new money. I hate the fact that I never know from patch to patch what my ships are going to be like.
Nice work. Very helpful. I can also see CIG gaming this list to churn ship purchases.
It's going to be interesting to see your video on an updated tier your list if they make changes to master modes which I hope they do fairly soon.
Crazy seeing the buccaneer on top considering it's the one shipping game you can probably buy with food stamps at Hurston..😂
"If you get hit by a Size 9 torpedo in an Arrow or Bucca.... That shouldnt happen."
I flew into one once during evasion of shots due them being super slow lmao
LOve this video. Can you do the same thing with PVE? Also, on your scoring, I prefer language like Attack Value, Maneuverability, and Defense. (since 'threat' depends on which seat you are in)
Always enjoy these videos and I like the new info additions!
Oh hey! Great tier list, I also fought against you in Arena Commander, didn’t realize you were a UA-camr
Well you learn something new everyday
@@Avenger__One Yeah! You had scary aim man
I’m a B tier flying F7A
Tried to play with and against you in AC , was hard but good for learning.
The only bad side was hearing you making fun At me somethings during fight , but I guess if I was as good at you fighting less skilled pilots I would have troll a bit as well , who knows.
I’ll keep learning and fighting the best I can and hopefully one day it will work
I wouldn't take it personally brother
Yo! I totally feel this. I think Avenger's a little far removed from what playing in the beginning feels like.
You have the right attitude. Just take what he makes fun of and improve on it. Also, we can join forces in pu sometime, hmu!
@@Avenger__One I don’t take it personally I guess , I will as I said keep dying again and again to improve. But I can be hard to do you best and hear the man smashing you laughing about that on live.
Last day you were alone with all the dude in the other team focusing you as usual. I did the best I could to be a “ok B tier wingman” tried to stay as close as possible to you and give the support needed and then you said "ok I’m alone on this game wtf are the others doing".
With 25 to 30 fps on some maps / mouse keyboard / and no head tracker sometimes it’s hard. And doing the best you can to be ok and hearing someone laughing at me wasn’t the flight experience I was expecting, specially when it’s from a coach.
Still a subscriber , still left a like and talking about you to people who wants to be better at the game everyday.
when you are alone with no Avengers pilots near , it will be wise to take this time to help people who are trying to give you and hand you instead of bashing them.
I’ll see you on the field sir !
@@norn83 Is use the ""cheat"" for pvp guys
Thanks for the insight A1. Skill diamonds are a great addition.
I think one of the best things about the TCS score is that for a lot of players who don't have a lot of ships, or have flown all these types of ships, it can give them a basic starting point on how they might want to start fighting that type of ship based on your TCS score vs their TCS score. So, for example, if I am in a Hornet mkII and you are in a 100i then I already have a pretty good idea I might want to start fighting you using extensions.
Loved the new TCS and diamond scoring system. Much more detailed than other tier lists I've seen on UA-cam till now. Definitely should be a main stay.
Well done sir. Your TCS scores will change reviews for sure. I am especially grateful for the confirmation bias that I have going on with the ships I like :)
Yeah, this is a fantastic list. Very simple and easy to understand at a glance
Thanks for the list, for me the skill diamonds are very helpful.
Great review. Thanks. This is a ton of work! Am greatly appreciating your opions here.
I would argue 1v1 is the most common type of fighting that happens. Bounty hunting especially. Pirating to a lesser extent. Group fights normally only happen in orgvorg fights and the very rare encounter of a trader with escorts. This is coming from someone who plays daily with a large org. Now group fights can happen naturally in the pu but in my 4 year’s experience they are once in a blue moon
Us Anvil boys are absolutely seething right now
I love how MM was supposed to end light fighter meta, but it actually just made smaller ships even better... make it make sense.
Absolutely perfect video, thanks A1.
This must have taken a lot of effort, and it's the best tier list vid I ever had the pleasure to watch.
Lines up with my experiences and the skill rankings make it possible for me to create a general idea of how each ship performs, just because I flew some of these and I can compare. Thanks!
the way you have laid this out is fantastic, i would say i'm a rookie as i know how to fly as a basic level with maneuvers, though maybe a beginner as i don't really do combat to any degree that much. my favourite looking combat ship is also the F7c/a MkII but i with the the guns you got as standard on the F7c MkII were the turretunder the nose, i really don't like having such big guns on the really thin wings, either that or rather than having the nose turret and top turret all the guns were under the wings, i understand why there are wings on the skin in general but i think they look too flimsy to actually hold the guns that are there.
Kind of crying in F8C and Scorpius now! :-)
(Especially the F8C will definitely still have its place in a squad, but needs protection.)
Thanks very much for a tremendous effort putting this together.
Great job with the TCS addition, really looking forward to the bigger ship list. Hope it includes ships like the MSR, 400i and non battle ships as well
Yes, this was great and looking forward to the bigger one!
😢 kind of a sad day. All these ships that used to be awesome are now kind average. The Gladius hurt 🤕
I think one thing to consider for other pilots is, will you be pvping against other pilots in s tier ships or randomly running into lower tier ships / large ships. The interceptors are basically meant to dominate fighters, whereas fighters are meant to take each other on and assault slower ships. When you rate them based on their intended use, it changes up the tier ranking.
Newbie question: Is this list applicable to PVE? I'm a rookie level player trying to grind bounty hunting missions with a fully upgraded Tana and a Cutlass Black. Getting my butt kicked if I aggro more than the target at once. Missiles don't seem to be as effective as they were before. Little VLRT ships soaking up like 10 missiles is ridiculous.
Did you guys know the raven emps can be staggered by keeping one disabled the first blast? Its so funny on pirate swarm. Every time one emp fires the other one starts charging.
As a returning rookie the diamond colors and discussion are amazing. Im well aware that some ships would take a lot of practice to unlock their full potential and shouldnt be my priority to grind, this is a really helpful conversation for this very topic
TLDR: Any Red can beat any Orange. Any Orange can beat any Yellow. Any Yellow can beat any Green. ("CAN" not necessarily "WILL") For any conflicts within the SAME COLOR: see the ship tier list.
the skill diamonds and the T-C-S Score is absolutely amazing! it shows with like one look where i am at and what i should get
Videos like this make me wonder if CIG (or other devs) so this type of stuff internally...
Or if they watch this and take notes.
Good job man!
Thanks for the effort. New additions are great as a new player
I think we crossed paths in a AC match today. 😅 ironically in a Buc vs hornet battle. Unless someone else has the same screen name. Good list,
And what did we learn
@@Avenger__One we chased each other for a bit at trading shots , you lost part of a wing I lost a turret. We went out of bounds then i got 3rd party. Spawned back but you were gone . I will say I can appreciate the Buc's ability to keep distance. The name was spelt the same, but if it wasn't you no worries. I'm enjoying stepping into the pvp side of SC.
That tier list looks satirical but…its not😭😭😭😭😭 fuuuuuuck
Love your ranking system, makes tons of sense. RSI would do well to pay attention to this skill differentiation.
The skill diamond idea is excellent, it gives extra context to what's really going on with these ships. Loved it.