A non rose tinted lookback at the boss that blocked so many and gained a history of being truly amazing New main video every monday www.preachgaming.com
I don't remember anyone hyping M'uru as an amazing boss to fight, I remember him being notorious for dismantling guilds for how hard he was to kill. Progression in Sunwell went something like Kalecgos was your standard gimmie fight, Brutallus was your DPS check, Felmyst was your "how many dumbshits are we carrying and need to replace?" fight. Twins were another gimmie then M'uru was the guild destroyer who feasted on the tears of GMs until he was nerfed and turned into just another bland uninspired fight on your way to giving rogues the legendary bow over your hunters. The biggest problem with M'uru was just how much it showed that you needed to stack Locks and Shamans or you didn't win not to mention you either had everyone with leatherworking for drums or you didn't raid.
As far as I can remember the only thing M'uru was every hyped about was how hard he was. I don't believe I ever heard anyone talk about how awesome the encounter was or anything like that.
I did realm first Muru on my server as a holy pala, had to reroll alchemy to chain mana pot to afford holy light spam on tank as the damage he took was insane. The fight made me literally sweat and my stomach twist. Had to time the right heals at the right moment or boink, dead tank. Had to ensure every drop of mana was 100% efficiently used. Never felt anything like it since nor the feeling or relief and joy at finally getting the kill. I agree the mechanics and room are crap, for me it'll always be the hardest boss I've ever taken on. But not the most fun!
Sever first Muru kill via Warlock I can tell you from that perspective the fight was amazing. Spamming seeds while keeping up dots and riding that omen line with the pally.... knowing exactly when to cast soul shatter to crush the meter. I had no idea other people found this one lacking... I was having the time of my life lol
+seekup241 I became the designated pala tank on that fight, because I was the only holy pala with reliable raid attendance. So for half the week I would be stuck being prot and not being able to play arena as holy, unless I wanted to sink more gold into daily spec dancing, which I didn't want to, because let's face it, how do you farm gold with fucking prot or holy? :/ And of course I couldn't stay prot on the first bosses or even sit those raids out, so I would go holy for those. Basically all of sunwell became such a chore once we hit m'uru. I just find it hilarious how two players could have such opposite experiences of the same fight. Take care man.
That's sounds awful but if you were switching specs constantly for the guild they should have taken care of you, I know ours did. We got free flasks, repairs, gems and gold for switching spec no questions if you were a full time raider. Now that I'm thinking about it we ran a pretty awesome ship, I played with a bunch of really awesome Canadians. One guy played the Ah so well for us and sold raid slots and pieces we already farmed... It just all worked so well in BC. Check out nostalrius they are running an extremely successful private server and I cant wait to relive those experiences. The world is magic lol
I loved Sunwell as a whole. It was my last true hardcore progression experience with raiding as I had to sit wotlk out due to school and a shoddy computer that choked up in ulduar. I'll never forget those times. Hands down my favorite. Tension was high but the payoff and relief was huge. I was a shadow priest, not a class known to put out huge numbers at the time but sunwell drove me to min max and keep up with the mages and warlocks. Finally doing enough damage you'd earn the position in the group with the ele shaman and have to take up LW for drums. That sucked, but anything to hit that next level. Kalecgos: riveting boss fight and just a blast. It was easy enough to get you too comfortable and crush your hopes when you got to... Brutalus: the most intense dps race I can think of at the time. Required precision coordination between tanks and burn victims alike. I remember hitting 2k DPS for the first time in my raid experience here. Damn that kill was satisfying. I got the first reign of misery with a "Great job, you earned it dude" from all the other casters. Something normally replaced with bitching they didn't get it. But seeing as I was using the magisters terrace dagger everyone saw what I could do and how huge that would be of an upgrade. Sorry for the side tangent. I just rarely got first drops. Felmyst: *shudders* that green gas man. That green gas. Dots helped so much on this fight it was unreal. Eredar Twins: A lesson in how not to fall off a ledge. Besides all the stupid wipes this is probably my favorite encounter in the instance. M'uru: the guild breaker. We gave it our all and got rewarded for it. It took more attempts than I'd like to remember but once we got it, we had it. Pretty much required 25 drums of haste and a shaman per group. I never saw the caster dps trinket and I don't care. Every time I saw that boss fall I was warm and fuzzy inside. Big daddy KJ: pretty underwhelming after everything else before hand. One shot it after a mechanic learning intentional wipe.
I call bullshit, shadow priests weren't capable of 2k dps barring something like 100% lust uptime and full Sunwell gear. Kil'jaedens difficulty also wasn't far off of pre nerf M'urus. Nobody ever seems to remember bringing 15 healers to twins because the fight was literally just survive raid damage until Sacrolash dies, collect loot.
Lol... you have no idea how many times I replayed the start of your vid just to hear you say "*M'URU*" that funny way XD only thing that cracked me up more was when you went "M'URU IS A NARUUUUU" XD hahahahaha....
"Phase 2 he turns into another a void demon but now also features ALL NEW AND EXCITING , Spinning balls of fuck you melee" I would love to get that one as my a ring tone to my a cell phone.
To be honest all I remember about m'uru was that we were denied our pre-nerf kill due to the lag going on on the Mannoroth server. Then post-nerf we proceeded to just kill him immediately despite the server lag. Sunwell was really unforgiving yet it still seemed fun. Racing against Vodka and Illuminati (not that we were ever really that close), still good times though.
I'd rather take a boring fight over this insanely overtuned and miserable boss fight. I still have flashbacks when I watch this, as someone who did this when it was current.
M'uru is basically the epitomy of terrible encounter design, and i'm pretty sure Blizzard recognizes this. In fact, to be honest, most people nowadays who criticize modern raiding and want a return to vanilla and BC, they really don't realize how poorly designed a lot of those raid encounters really are. I mean lets be honest, who really wants to see the return of Resist Gear? ;) In all honesty, the whole drum-stacking dillemna really was 100% Blizzard's fault. They did not forsee the toxic situations that would arise from guilds being able to and requiring the use of 450 leatherworking on all raid characters just to have an infinite haste steroid. It's faulty design. Simple as that. No argument about it.
+MastaGambit TBC was not without it's faults, but I still think it was the best expansion in terms of pacing. There was new stuff to do towards your goals every time you logged in. Whether you needed to work on resist gear, keys and attunements, normal raid gear, professions, farming for pots/elixers or whatnot, there was something to do besides your dailies. I don't necessarily want everything that happened in TBC, but I'd love to see the progression model in TBC used again, with a few minor tweaks. For example, 10-man and 5-man content of similar difficulty in the higher tiers (but different content than the 25-mans so it's unique) would be nice for off nights.
+MastaGambit TBC was great but people always miss why it was so loved. No lfg or lfr and no cross server phasing bullshit. It was the last time wow functioned as a real mmo, that's why people love it so much.
Bangbus Define "real MMO". :P Also, LFG was a great addition to the game, believe it or not. In fact it might have even been crucial. Sure LFR not so much, but definitely LFG. I mean yeah, I agree it ends up inevitably removing a number of social interactions from the act of getting together 5man parties and becoming closer as a team as you go through the trials and tribulations of a dungeon together, but I still thinks the positives of being able to actually complete certain objectives and get certain rewards in a timely manner does outweigh the negatives.
+MastaGambit What I meant by real mmo was massively multiplayer online, lfg is a mechanic that does incredible damage to the social aspect. It also removes accountability from any of a persons actions while grouping in a dungeon as you will probably never see those people again. Like you said, it made it easier to accomplish objectives, you might see that as a good thing, I think most tbc lovers will not agree with you
M'uru was hard not because he required high skill (except maybe reaction time of the healers). Mechanically he was comparatively basic. He just required ridiculous NUMBERS. So basically he was ridiculously hard, but the bad kind of hard. In terms of requiring awareness, positioning, coordination etc, he is honestly less challenging than even a lot of the T5 content. Just... NUMBERS.
Iryanmadayana Actually even if you were a DPS class you still needed to know very well how to play, as a Warlock i needed to have macros to insta target M'uru and all different kind of adds to get as much dps in as possible, you also need to move out of the way of harmful abilities coming your way. As a Warlock you also had to be quick with the transition to time the banish + Enslave Demon (The enslaved add does SO much damage so all Warlocks should be doing that). Claiming that the fight was not hard is in my opinion wrong, you as a player need to have total control over what you do during the encounter, that is what makes it hard, if you sucked at knowing wtf to do, you wouldent kill M'uru pre-nerf. And he was harder than all other encounters for awareness, positioning and coordination simply because the room is small, therefore making awareness and positioning harder and coordination = all players need to play at 100% during the entire fight. Not sure about you, but no T5 fight ever required so much out of every player, at least in my former hardcore progress guild during TBC, even Kael'thas pre-nerf had more of a laid-back approach due to the timed phases.
miothan "Claiming that the fight was not hard is in my opinion wrong" M'uru wasn't mechanically hard at all. It was just an insane numbers fight. It wasn't any more complex than Shade of Aran or Void Reaver, it was just horrifically overtuned, making it seem harder.
miothan When the need to swap to adds or banish you had to stop your 1 button rotation and push another, must have been real hard for a warlock on that fight...
+Iryanmadayana Numbers is part of the difficulty. Especially because it would be next to impossible to outgear him within the expansion (compared to Patchwerk in Wrath).
M'uru's backstory is that the Naruu (A'dal and all those good people) foresaw Kael'Thas invading Tempest Keep, and also foresaw him being responsible for summoning Kil'Jaeden which would lead to the purifying of the Sunwell. M'uru willingly let himself get captured so that he could sacrifice himself, allowing his remaining energy to be used by Velen (who talks to the Naruu all the time) to purify the Sunwell.
TBH muru deserve legendary Status.. If you can kill thousand of guilds you kinda deserve to be rememberd... Please give this guy a statue of Not honor :D
You forgot to mention Shadowpriests for this fight. They topped healing done as fucking damage dealers. They were incredibly needed. And like you mentioned, shamans. Remember we called off the raid 3 times because we lacked some shamans, wasn't even a point to try without them..
M'uru was hyped because people enjoyed the challenge. Nobody in the entire raid could make a mistake, not for a split second. It is easy to say today how terrible class stacking was, but that was warcraft. Now look at the game. Nobody is special anymore. Everybody can do the same thing. There is nothing unique about the game anymore.
I´m so glad I was in PvP focused guild in TBC :D no raiding dramas, no shitty bosses (yes we did some PvE but only for fun and only to patch some shitty PvP slots on our gear) :)
Preach my man. Do more videos like this like the legacy of boses 101. Each video you could show a different boss from vanilla to legion or even until bfa man. There are a lot of bosses with strong legacy
Now that we're all but confirmed to relive the best wow expansion, fun to revisit this! The original iteration of M'uru had a boring as hell first phase, where all you're doing is praying your priest doesn't screw up the mass dispell, and a ridiculously tuned burn phase that I'd consider as fun. Maybe butt clenching of epic proportions would be the best way to describe it. Every time you got tossed by the little ball, you felt that dps or healing loss would cause a wipe. It was insane. Mechanically it wasn't a very hard boss (especially by modern standards). First phase snooze fest. But organizing your raid in a way where you could kill him pre-nerf, that was a challenge in itself.
Top 20 kill on this guy. We used mages. Just had a focus spellsteal macro and kept the mage adds alive. Next level pyro dps. Warlocks couldn't touch me.
Grace of air, windfury totem, grace of air, windfury totem, grace of air, windfury totem.. still haunts me from this boss and endless nights of dogshit wipes.
Muru was just tedious... I remember our main tank kept messing up or the second group could not keep up with the dmg. So even if we were ok with ads, something went wrong on the other side of the room and we wiped. The wall staring experience mentioned is 100 % correct. It was a frustrating time sink.
hehe I definately see your point man, though you can't deny this wasn't the hardest most insane fight WoW ever offered, it sure didn't have the epic sparkle of KJ or Kael or whatnot, but it was literally next to impossible
Algalon was awesome. Just cause you didn't like something doesn't make it over-hyped. Also, just cause the difficulty comes from the adds doesn't make the boss any less epic. You could argue that his powers are focused to summon and empower minions rather than pew pew you with mega beams or smack you with a giant hammer. I also loved the aura of the room and the lore of the boss. Though I agree the class stacking mechanics and profession change requirements were horrible.
Yes I got that point, and I disagree that it makes it anticlimactic. I'll agree that the fight could have perhaps been more complex but I don't think there is a need for the boss's abilities to be the primary challenge in order for it to satisfy it's build up.
Speaking of Algalon, I'd like to point out that the area you fight him in is remarkably similar in size to M'uru's room, but my what a difference not having the walls makes. Rather than being boxed in by the walls your camera could extend past them always allowing you a full view of the entire arena.
I do agree with him that its bullshit that a raid boss would make class requirements like that and just force out melee outright like that. no boss should be that strict. no player after all that hard work to get to a boss like that, suddenly be like "oh shit, im melee, this guys insta kills melee, I cant fight him".... just not right. not when you concider just how much work it takes to get a character in wow, especialy back then, up to that lvl and gear
nothing wrong with that, melee had their own targets to deal with during the fight. It's bullshit tanks can take so much damage, why do we even need tanks. Or healers for that matter. Fuck roles, let everyone do everything any time and anyway they want it. Why even have classes let's just go full classless and not even bother with skill point caps, go Full Mabinogi, everyone can learn everything eventually, that never went horribly, horribly wrong. it worked so well for DC Universe Online as well.
I killed Muru pre-nerf and the whole guild didnt need to re-roll into Leather working for drums. Only SK and the top-first 10 kills probably did that. It took us 4 weeks instead of 2 to get him down and we got him without any of the crap mentioned here of class specifications. Only thing we horribly needed was a 2nd hunter for a 2nd MissDirect for the dps to not pull aggro on P2. Muru was much more glorious for what u made it seem and so was the Sunwell. To this day, killing Muru is the biggest satisfaction I ever got from killing a boss in all of WoW. You wont understand unless u were there.
I think Preach completely misunderstood what people on the forums were saying about M'uru. In the examples, people are saying that M'uru was the most difficult fight ever made, but Preach makes it sound like what they mean is "M'uru is the most awesome fight ever made". Seeing as Preach finds the most difficult fights in the game to be the most awesome, I think the sarcastic remarks of "Oh don't worry, M'uru is gonna be awesome to fight" flew right over his head. And for the record, I know M'uru wasn't actually difficult, as Preach mentioned in the video; M'uru was only difficult because of the ludicrous raid roster requirements to down him.
Yes, anyone can take old pvp videos off youtube and say its them, with all that low res blurry quality. Just face it, he makes money off you idiots thinking he plays wow
I slightly agree on how stupid it was for some..most guilds needing to stack certain classes. I never really disliked his room, though. Every attempt, i was too preoccupied with doing my job properly to worry about most of these things. :| I never needed to get drums, but I do know a lot of others in my raid did. I believe we downed him once or twice, and then couldn't seem to do it again. Once the 30% nerf happened, it was incomparable. I enjoy the nostalgia, and knowing I accomplished it.
8 years later and instead of Forum myths from the top guilds we get to see that shit streamed live. As fun as it was back in the day this is WAYYYY better
wow u really took me back ... thanks - but you're wrong. Muru was and still the hardest and the most complicated encounter (maybe Kael'thas aswell) ever since TBC to this day (dis including vanilla). It's not about drums / shamans - it was about getting 25 geeks to play not good - but EXCELLENT at their role. THAT was raiding... and I miss it.
I think most people agree he was one of the hardest, but it sometimes gets misconstrued as the best. No one liked the class stacking, prof changing, or overtuned natured of this fight. My biggest problem is people having opinions about how great or bad it was compared to current content who never attempted him in the first place. It was shitty, but still there is a great feeling with defeating these difficult bosses. I think that is where a lot of the people who did down him pre 3.0 buff or even pre spell push back nerf from his dark energy. It was a great feeling killing him after 100's of attempts. However the journey to get there was painful and not very fun. I actually, despite class stacking, liked the other boss fights of Kalecgos, Eredar Twins, and Kil'jaeden in Sunwell. Vanilla-Wotlk, for all the faults and experimenting done by blizzard, was a fun time to play. I think the nostalgia as a whole is well warranted.
It was the only fight that I refused to do with an alt (even though all of them were geared appropriately). The most difficult thing I have ever done in my life and the last time I played an enhancement shaman
I might be alone on this, but I actually enjoyed the fight as warrior tank. Tanking the adds was some of the most intensive gaming you got (maybe except praying for the heals to stagger well on Brutalus). Halfway during progress we realised that the tank in charge of the big void add was the cause for most of the wipes, we swapped him and made the kill some 50 pulls later. The pre nerf version was just really blegh. we had the best progress on him on the server and stil only reached 15% in P1.
I never really raided Sunwell, but when someone mentioned that the Muru was the hardest boss and explained me what the fight was like I literally lmfao'ed them cuz they were literally describing an over the top overtuned boss. Same with Kill'jaeden and Archimond both on mythic, when they were called the hardest ever I couldn't understand how something that stupidly overtuned can be called hard, I mean yeah if you count something next to impossible "hard" then it was Hard.
more than that, I cannot remember a single Hard boss in the game that was not overtuned. Well, may be the Lich king was "hard", idk, never really had a problem with not standing in shit/dropping shit under the raid group.
This fight was tough, there's no doubting that, but I think you missed what was amazing about M'uru(yes I was there for it and got a kill) Even with the right raid comps and using drums and having nothing but stellar players in your guild, M'uru claimed more 1-3% wipes than any other boss in WoW history. You also trivialize the fight quite a bit. Yes those adds came in waves and and it did take a hit of time, but what made the fight incredible and made it real works was the amount of group swapping, focus and overall raid awareness that had to be used. This fight demanded 100% precision, no slip ups to be completed. Also, my guild killed M'uru without poaching from other guilds or bringing in Alta, we used our raid comp that we had through a 80% of Black Temple and every boss up to M'uru in Sunwell.
+Joseph Alcala Im sure ascendant council heroic was on par with the 1-3%wipes.. Not talking about all the guilds outside of top 5 thats skipped them and came back with better gear..
People who wax nostalgic for crap like this do so because, when they played it, they had (and needed) nearly UNLIMITED time to play the game. Everyone in the guild maxing Leatherworking?? Yeah, ok. The reason WoW isn't like this anymore is that the people who have loved it for many years have grown up and have actual responsibilities that make wiping on a boss hundreds of times 4 nights a week literally impossible. If WoW had continued with Raids like Sunwell it would be as dead as a doornail.
I agree with you, wow sucked before compared to what it does now, i started late vanilla, but played vanilla on PS.. i dont see the hype, bad raids when it comes 2 tacts etc
Not true. My TBC guild, Limited Edition on Draka US, killed M'uru pre-nerf. All adults, older people, 14 hours a week / 3 days, with zero extra time. We even killed him while still clearing BT almost every reset.
I felt like the Muru wipes were worth it to get to kiljaeden. That was a fun fight. Did all bosses in sunwell server first on moonrunner :) Just started playing WoW since Ulduar and I'm disappointed about WoD. I am hyped for legion though. I hope blizzard can bring back some of that old school wow feel.
This video got me an idea, what would you say if we had something like brawlers guild for 10 man (25 would be imo way too frustrating) where everyone could choose any class and specialization and you would get lets say 5 near impossible bosses, with no loot, only achivement and server/world first feats of strengh. Everyone would have same ilvl gear. It would be just for fun to do something on off days - you would constantly shuffle around to finally get these bosses.
LOL I remember being in Orgrimmar when SK Gaming/Meet your makers started writing in caps about Munken being the first person to get the epic bow in /2 xD
Never battled him but he sure looks badass. So Blizzard is notorious for never going back to tweak old boss fights so does all this still stand? It would be nice to see them try to make this boss better.
Jerry Peet Yeah, general damage/healing/health numbers have increased since the times/patches those bosses were released. Even before the "numbers squish", if you went into a BC raid at level 70, you could probably do it quite easily in quest greens and blues.
+gamesmaster35 Typically in the weeks before a new expansion, Blizzard will do a few things: 1) nerf the end-game content so players can see it and 2) buff the classes with all sorts of new mechanics and abilities. The reason Blizzard has to make bosses with so many mechanics nowadays is because they have trivialized the game mechanics that made the game tough in previous expansions (such as threat, mana requirements, gear choice, talent builds, enemies 1-shotting DPS, CC breaking on DoTs or AoEs, etc). To make challenge, they have to make the rotations more complex, throw in a lot of boss mechanics for you to pay attention to, and then make everything faster paced to test your reaction times. For this reason, bosses that used previous mechanics become more and more trivial. When you do a boss at the end of an expansion, they will typically have less health and damage output, while your healers have more tools to keep the raid alive, your tanks hold threat even easier, and your damage dealers will output DPS comparable to what an entire group did before. Move on to the next expansion, and they will add in BoE greens that you can find on the auction house that are comparable, if not better itemized than the gear people were doing when that boss was new. You might be using Mastery from greens in a fight in (whatever was before mastery, I don't remember if that stat was in Wrath or Cata), which was not tuned for players to have those kind of stats. Blizzard also knows that sometimes mechanics changes can make things harder. For example, in TBC there was no diminishing returns on block or parry, so I'm pretty sure some tanks got hit hard on mitigation when they added in DR for those stats. So they will want to make sure that the fights are nerfed to the point where any loss of functionality is addressed. Going forward, they can design fights with the understanding that tanks have DR on dodge and parry. This is why I scoffed when I saw Timewalker dungeons are being released. Who cares? Unless you are going to put me in gear similar to what was available then, and give me the game mechanics of TBC (including requiring me to build a new spec and learn a new rotation just for this raid) then you aren't giving me the TBC experience. It's like going camping in a RV, where you have plumbing and electricity, and saying "this is what cavemen had to do." There's no comparison. You're not getting the experience of raid preparation, gating, and game mechanics as they existed. You're just getting to see a boss fight that was designed for a game that basically no longer exists with numbers that make sense to you, instead of going in solo and 1-shotting it.
gamesmaster35 all of it still stands, but the classes have changed considerably. Level 70 twink raids can skip a lot of the hassle, and he’s now thr easiest boss in the instance.
You forgot something Preach... people can’t switch to adds. For whatever reason many ranged dps players are incapable of just changing targets in order to kill adds. If this is true now, I’m sure it was ten times worse during Sunwell.
M'uru the guild breaker
Pay your respect
#respect
"From your brother's sister's cousin's brother"?
So... from your cousin?
+Big Isaac Half brothers step sisters cousins step brother. maybe
nah just cousin
I don't remember anyone hyping M'uru as an amazing boss to fight, I remember him being notorious for dismantling guilds for how hard he was to kill. Progression in Sunwell went something like Kalecgos was your standard gimmie fight, Brutallus was your DPS check, Felmyst was your "how many dumbshits are we carrying and need to replace?" fight. Twins were another gimmie then M'uru was the guild destroyer who feasted on the tears of GMs until he was nerfed and turned into just another bland uninspired fight on your way to giving rogues the legendary bow over your hunters. The biggest problem with M'uru was just how much it showed that you needed to stack Locks and Shamans or you didn't win not to mention you either had everyone with leatherworking for drums or you didn't raid.
Preacher math:
300 + 250 = 500
Do you even math, bro?
think he was adding up all the wipes he listed on the different bosses
no shit lol
As far as I can remember the only thing M'uru was every hyped about was how hard he was. I don't believe I ever heard anyone talk about how awesome the encounter was or anything like that.
But... you gave him.. his legacy...
"Overhyping something should be illegal"
Warlords?
ayy lmao
Legion.
So bad.
***** lol
Cameron Tero Preachcon?
Battle for Azeroth ohmegalul!
just checking by for the daily MUURUUU IS A NAARUUUU
Thanks again, funny shit.
I did realm first Muru on my server as a holy pala, had to reroll alchemy to chain mana pot to afford holy light spam on tank as the damage he took was insane. The fight made me literally sweat and my stomach twist. Had to time the right heals at the right moment or boink, dead tank. Had to ensure every drop of mana was 100% efficiently used. Never felt anything like it since nor the feeling or relief and joy at finally getting the kill. I agree the mechanics and room are crap, for me it'll always be the hardest boss I've ever taken on. But not the most fun!
Sever first Muru kill via Warlock I can tell you from that perspective the fight was amazing. Spamming seeds while keeping up dots and riding that omen line with the pally.... knowing exactly when to cast soul shatter to crush the meter. I had no idea other people found this one lacking... I was having the time of my life lol
warlock life anyway haha
+seekup241 I became the designated pala tank on that fight, because I was the only holy pala with reliable raid attendance. So for half the week I would be stuck being prot and not being able to play arena as holy, unless I wanted to sink more gold into daily spec dancing, which I didn't want to, because let's face it, how do you farm gold with fucking prot or holy? :/ And of course I couldn't stay prot on the first bosses or even sit those raids out, so I would go holy for those. Basically all of sunwell became such a chore once we hit m'uru.
I just find it hilarious how two players could have such opposite experiences of the same fight. Take care man.
That's sounds awful but if you were switching specs constantly for the guild they should have taken care of you, I know ours did. We got free flasks, repairs, gems and gold for switching spec no questions if you were a full time raider. Now that I'm thinking about it we ran a pretty awesome ship, I played with a bunch of really awesome Canadians. One guy played the Ah so well for us and sold raid slots and pieces we already farmed... It just all worked so well in BC. Check out nostalrius they are running an extremely successful private server and I cant wait to relive those experiences. The world is magic lol
zyax123 replied above but forgot to tag ya
"brother's sister's cousin's brother"
So, just "cousin" then.
Nastrael Rowe maybe they're half brother and half sisters
I loved Sunwell as a whole. It was my last true hardcore progression experience with raiding as I had to sit wotlk out due to school and a shoddy computer that choked up in ulduar.
I'll never forget those times. Hands down my favorite. Tension was high but the payoff and relief was huge. I was a shadow priest, not a class known to put out huge numbers at the time but sunwell drove me to min max and keep up with the mages and warlocks. Finally doing enough damage you'd earn the position in the group with the ele shaman and have to take up LW for drums. That sucked, but anything to hit that next level.
Kalecgos: riveting boss fight and just a blast. It was easy enough to get you too comfortable and crush your hopes when you got to...
Brutalus: the most intense dps race I can think of at the time. Required precision coordination between tanks and burn victims alike. I remember hitting 2k DPS for the first time in my raid experience here. Damn that kill was satisfying. I got the first reign of misery with a "Great job, you earned it dude" from all the other casters. Something normally replaced with bitching they didn't get it. But seeing as I was using the magisters terrace dagger everyone saw what I could do and how huge that would be of an upgrade. Sorry for the side tangent. I just rarely got first drops.
Felmyst: *shudders* that green gas man. That green gas. Dots helped so much on this fight it was unreal.
Eredar Twins: A lesson in how not to fall off a ledge. Besides all the stupid wipes this is probably my favorite encounter in the instance.
M'uru: the guild breaker. We gave it our all and got rewarded for it. It took more attempts than I'd like to remember but once we got it, we had it. Pretty much required 25 drums of haste and a shaman per group. I never saw the caster dps trinket and I don't care. Every time I saw that boss fall I was warm and fuzzy inside.
Big daddy KJ: pretty underwhelming after everything else before hand. One shot it after a mechanic learning intentional wipe.
I call bullshit, shadow priests weren't capable of 2k dps barring something like 100% lust uptime and full Sunwell gear. Kil'jaedens difficulty also wasn't far off of pre nerf M'urus. Nobody ever seems to remember bringing 15 healers to twins because the fight was literally just survive raid damage until Sacrolash dies, collect loot.
*****
Whats so funny? it was hardcore. most guilds weren't geared to face it and even less cleared. you're funny.
Lol... you have no idea how many times I replayed the start of your vid just to hear you say "*M'URU*" that funny way XD
only thing that cracked me up more was when you went "M'URU IS A NARUUUUU" XD hahahahaha....
***** where can I hear the whole speech?
***** maybe I will, Parker; maybe I will.
Rainy Jane Muuuuruuuuu is a Naaaaruuuuu xD
I love these retro preach vids.
"Phase 2 he turns into another a void demon but now also features ALL NEW AND EXCITING , Spinning balls of fuck you melee" I would love to get that one as my a ring tone to my
a cell phone.
MUUUUUUUUURUUUUUUUUU IS A NAAAAAAAARUUUUUUUUU
I fucking love your video's, the way you deliver everything just cracks me up. Keep em coming man!!
We want more Preach Rants vids!
To be honest all I remember about m'uru was that we were denied our pre-nerf kill due to the lag going on on the Mannoroth server. Then post-nerf we proceeded to just kill him immediately despite the server lag. Sunwell was really unforgiving yet it still seemed fun. Racing against Vodka and Illuminati (not that we were ever really that close), still good times though.
you should do some more preach rants on WoW bosses, they're pretty cool.
I kind of feel this way about Lady Vashj.
i was told to watch the muru video, and this looks much more entertaining then n'zoth.
I'd rather take a boring fight over this insanely overtuned and miserable boss fight. I still have flashbacks when I watch this, as someone who did this when it was current.
MUUUUUURUUUUUUU is a NAAAARUUUUUU :D Damn I love the way you say that sentence :D
watching this 9 years later getting ready for tbc classic
M'uru is my all-time favorite wow boss, probably just next to C’Thun.
Am I the only one who suddenly sees Orguz everywhere in Preach's videos?
M'uru is basically the epitomy of terrible encounter design, and i'm pretty sure Blizzard recognizes this. In fact, to be honest, most people nowadays who criticize modern raiding and want a return to vanilla and BC, they really don't realize how poorly designed a lot of those raid encounters really are. I mean lets be honest, who really wants to see the return of Resist Gear? ;)
In all honesty, the whole drum-stacking dillemna really was 100% Blizzard's fault. They did not forsee the toxic situations that would arise from guilds being able to and requiring the use of 450 leatherworking on all raid characters just to have an infinite haste steroid. It's faulty design. Simple as that. No argument about it.
+MastaGambit TBC was not without it's faults, but I still think it was the best expansion in terms of pacing. There was new stuff to do towards your goals every time you logged in. Whether you needed to work on resist gear, keys and attunements, normal raid gear, professions, farming for pots/elixers or whatnot, there was something to do besides your dailies. I don't necessarily want everything that happened in TBC, but I'd love to see the progression model in TBC used again, with a few minor tweaks. For example, 10-man and 5-man content of similar difficulty in the higher tiers (but different content than the 25-mans so it's unique) would be nice for off nights.
Right and that was precisely my point. That while BC was a great time to be a WoW player, it was far from perfect.
+MastaGambit TBC was great but people always miss why it was so loved. No lfg or lfr and no cross server phasing bullshit. It was the last time wow functioned as a real mmo, that's why people love it so much.
Bangbus
Define "real MMO". :P
Also, LFG was a great addition to the game, believe it or not. In fact it might have even been crucial. Sure LFR not so much, but definitely LFG. I mean yeah, I agree it ends up inevitably removing a number of social interactions from the act of getting together 5man parties and becoming closer as a team as you go through the trials and tribulations of a dungeon together, but I still thinks the positives of being able to actually complete certain objectives and get certain rewards in a timely manner does outweigh the negatives.
+MastaGambit What I meant by real mmo was massively multiplayer online, lfg is a mechanic that does incredible damage to the social aspect. It also removes accountability from any of a persons actions while grouping in a dungeon as you will probably never see those people again. Like you said, it made it easier to accomplish objectives, you might see that as a good thing, I think most tbc lovers will not agree with you
"Muru" means either speck, crumb, sweetheart AND darling in my language. Raiding this one was fun because of the myriad of puns the name spawned.
This made me want to fight him. Oh and you've sounded very hyped in the entire video!
8:42 most awesome part of the vid xDDDD
thx preecher!!
M'uru was hard not because he required high skill (except maybe reaction time of the healers). Mechanically he was comparatively basic. He just required ridiculous NUMBERS. So basically he was ridiculously hard, but the bad kind of hard. In terms of requiring awareness, positioning, coordination etc, he is honestly less challenging than even a lot of the T5 content. Just... NUMBERS.
Iryanmadayana Actually even if you were a DPS class you still needed to know very well how to play, as a Warlock i needed to have macros to insta target M'uru and all different kind of adds to get as much dps in as possible, you also need to move out of the way of harmful abilities coming your way. As a Warlock you also had to be quick with the transition to time the banish + Enslave Demon (The enslaved add does SO much damage so all Warlocks should be doing that). Claiming that the fight was not hard is in my opinion wrong, you as a player need to have total control over what you do during the encounter, that is what makes it hard, if you sucked at knowing wtf to do, you wouldent kill M'uru pre-nerf.
And he was harder than all other encounters for awareness, positioning and coordination simply because the room is small, therefore making awareness and positioning harder and coordination = all players need to play at 100% during the entire fight. Not sure about you, but no T5 fight ever required so much out of every player, at least in my former hardcore progress guild during TBC, even Kael'thas pre-nerf had more of a laid-back approach due to the timed phases.
miothan "Claiming that the fight was not hard is in my opinion wrong"
M'uru wasn't mechanically hard at all. It was just an insane numbers fight. It wasn't any more complex than Shade of Aran or Void Reaver, it was just horrifically overtuned, making it seem harder.
miothan When the need to swap to adds or banish you had to stop your 1 button rotation and push another, must have been real hard for a warlock on that fight...
+Iryanmadayana Numbers is part of the difficulty. Especially because it would be next to impossible to outgear him within the expansion (compared to Patchwerk in Wrath).
The cousin's brother from another mother
5:20 M’uru; certified Wall Inspector
M'uru's backstory is that the Naruu (A'dal and all those good people) foresaw Kael'Thas invading Tempest Keep, and also foresaw him being responsible for summoning Kil'Jaeden which would lead to the purifying of the Sunwell. M'uru willingly let himself get captured so that he could sacrifice himself, allowing his remaining energy to be used by Velen (who talks to the Naruu all the time) to purify the Sunwell.
Preach can you please do more retro wow vids? Your new videos suck! (JK but still do more of this)
You know what really grinds my gears i love your vids i watch all your vids
TBH muru deserve legendary Status.. If you can kill thousand of guilds you kinda deserve to be rememberd... Please give this guy a statue of Not honor :D
All good, got the ice pack on the go and ready to rock
Muuuuurruuuuuu is a Naaaaaruuuuuuu! Interdimensional flying spark of creation! So fucking awesome! Keep up the videos!
You forgot to mention Shadowpriests for this fight. They topped healing done as fucking damage dealers. They were incredibly needed. And like you mentioned, shamans. Remember we called off the raid 3 times because we lacked some shamans, wasn't even a point to try without them..
M'uru was hyped because people enjoyed the challenge. Nobody in the entire raid could make a mistake, not for a split second.
It is easy to say today how terrible class stacking was, but that was warcraft. Now look at the game. Nobody is special anymore. Everybody can do the same thing. There is nothing unique about the game anymore.
I´m so glad I was in PvP focused guild in TBC :D no raiding dramas, no shitty bosses (yes we did some PvE but only for fun and only to patch some shitty PvP slots on our gear) :)
Okay.
great effort put into this one!! well done preach!
bro i love your vids ypu always crack me up but end to keep me really informed about the game!
Just checking in for my weekly "MUUUURUUUU IS A NAAAAAARUUUUUU"-dosis.
I love this one...I watch it over and over! the rage is so genuine! :)
Preach my man. Do more videos like this like the legacy of boses 101. Each video you could show a different boss from vanilla to legion or even until bfa man. There are a lot of bosses with strong legacy
your comment at the start of phase 2 was great preacher. 4:03 rofl.
Heh, gave me a brief TBC nostalgia trip.
LMFAO... "Trust me, I even have no achievement points and deleted my character"... Best line ever...
I thank you very much for these Words, kind Sir.
Every rant video should be hosted by Russell Emerald. Great vid Preach!
Now that we're all but confirmed to relive the best wow expansion, fun to revisit this!
The original iteration of M'uru had a boring as hell first phase, where all you're doing is praying your priest doesn't screw up the mass dispell, and a ridiculously tuned burn phase that I'd consider as fun. Maybe butt clenching of epic proportions would be the best way to describe it. Every time you got tossed by the little ball, you felt that dps or healing loss would cause a wipe. It was insane.
Mechanically it wasn't a very hard boss (especially by modern standards). First phase snooze fest. But organizing your raid in a way where you could kill him pre-nerf, that was a challenge in itself.
Most entertaining video yet.
Top 20 kill on this guy. We used mages. Just had a focus spellsteal macro and kept the mage adds alive. Next level pyro dps. Warlocks couldn't touch me.
Grace of air, windfury totem, grace of air, windfury totem, grace of air, windfury totem.. still haunts me from this boss and endless nights of dogshit wipes.
thats what grinds my gears. Tom.
Those UA-cam subtitles at 1:00:
"goes for a wormhole trust me or you would have known she reportedly burger"
the thing I like about M'uru (not gameplay related) is that his this stoic silent boss. I find those very unsettling like some of the ones in AQ.
+Konuvis Your heart.... will explode...
We need more PREACH rants
Muru was just tedious... I remember our main tank kept messing up or the second group could not keep up with the dmg. So even if we were ok with ads, something went wrong on the other side of the room and we wiped. The wall staring experience mentioned is 100 % correct. It was a frustrating time sink.
hehe I definately see your point man, though you can't deny this wasn't the hardest most insane fight WoW ever offered, it sure didn't have the epic sparkle of KJ or Kael or whatnot, but it was literally next to impossible
Spinning balls of "Fuck you melee", lost my shit at that part.
Algalon was awesome. Just cause you didn't like something doesn't make it over-hyped. Also, just cause the difficulty comes from the adds doesn't make the boss any less epic. You could argue that his powers are focused to summon and empower minions rather than pew pew you with mega beams or smack you with a giant hammer. I also loved the aura of the room and the lore of the boss. Though I agree the class stacking mechanics and profession change requirements were horrible.
Yes I got that point, and I disagree that it makes it anticlimactic. I'll agree that the fight could have perhaps been more complex but I don't think there is a need for the boss's abilities to be the primary challenge in order for it to satisfy it's build up.
Speaking of Algalon, I'd like to point out that the area you fight him in is remarkably similar in size to M'uru's room, but my what a difference not having the walls makes. Rather than being boxed in by the walls your camera could extend past them always allowing you a full view of the entire arena.
I do agree with him that its bullshit that a raid boss would make class requirements like that and just force out melee outright like that. no boss should be that strict. no player after all that hard work to get to a boss like that, suddenly be like "oh shit, im melee, this guys insta kills melee, I cant fight him".... just not right. not when you concider just how much work it takes to get a character in wow, especialy back then, up to that lvl and gear
nothing wrong with that, melee had their own targets to deal with during the fight.
It's bullshit tanks can take so much damage, why do we even need tanks. Or healers for that matter. Fuck roles, let everyone do everything any time and anyway they want it. Why even have classes let's just go full classless and not even bother with skill point caps, go Full Mabinogi, everyone can learn everything eventually, that never went horribly, horribly wrong. it worked so well for DC Universe Online as well.
I killed Muru pre-nerf and the whole guild didnt need to re-roll into Leather working for drums. Only SK and the top-first 10 kills probably did that. It took us 4 weeks instead of 2 to get him down and we got him without any of the crap mentioned here of class specifications. Only thing we horribly needed was a 2nd hunter for a 2nd MissDirect for the dps to not pull aggro on P2. Muru was much more glorious for what u made it seem and so was the Sunwell. To this day, killing Muru is the biggest satisfaction I ever got from killing a boss in all of WoW. You wont understand unless u were there.
Grays bro
You both did sunwell
More of these Preach! Awesome!
Its unclear where your anger is directed to
You listed all the facts of Muru it sounds like, was more of a documentary with you screaming
I think Preach completely misunderstood what people on the forums were saying about M'uru. In the examples, people are saying that M'uru was the most difficult fight ever made, but Preach makes it sound like what they mean is "M'uru is the most awesome fight ever made". Seeing as Preach finds the most difficult fights in the game to be the most awesome, I think the sarcastic remarks of "Oh don't worry, M'uru is gonna be awesome to fight" flew right over his head.
And for the record, I know M'uru wasn't actually difficult, as Preach mentioned in the video; M'uru was only difficult because of the ludicrous raid roster requirements to down him.
+Jeppz Postman Preacher never even played wow during this time, he just did a quick read about it on the internet and made a video,
whitewizard eden Seems about right, so all those PvP TBC videos he made back then were fake you mean?
Yes, anyone can take old pvp videos off youtube and say its them, with all that low res blurry quality.
Just face it, he makes money off you idiots thinking he plays wow
whitewizard eden That is probably the most idiotic comment I've seen so far this year. Well done sir.
You are just a bandwagon jumper man, you buy into lies. Hell, Preach raid history is being a failed applicant to Method in Cata.
I miss fun preach
Awesome vid dude! Was laughing throughout! Keep it up :)
The background music tops it off haha awesome video
Mad much? And you know what they say... If your MAD your BAD!
I slightly agree on how stupid it was for some..most guilds needing to stack certain classes.
I never really disliked his room, though. Every attempt, i was too preoccupied with doing my job properly to worry about most of these things. :|
I never needed to get drums, but I do know a lot of others in my raid did.
I believe we downed him once or twice, and then couldn't seem to do it again. Once the 30% nerf happened, it was incomparable.
I enjoy the nostalgia, and knowing I accomplished it.
8 years later and instead of Forum myths from the top guilds we get to see that shit streamed live. As fun as it was back in the day this is WAYYYY better
wow u really took me back ... thanks - but you're wrong. Muru was and still the hardest and the most complicated encounter (maybe Kael'thas aswell) ever since TBC to this day (dis including vanilla).
It's not about drums / shamans - it was about getting 25 geeks to play not good - but EXCELLENT at their role.
THAT was raiding... and I miss it.
Our guild did pre nerf muru with 2 warlocks and less than 3 or less shamans, I think we even had a kill with 1 warlock.
Firefighter was my favourite boss, never experienced M'uru, but can imagine it being a pain in the ass.
dude when i read the description i instantly thought about peter griffin, what grinds my gears^^
I think most people agree he was one of the hardest, but it sometimes gets misconstrued as the best. No one liked the class stacking, prof changing, or overtuned natured of this fight. My biggest problem is people having opinions about how great or bad it was compared to current content who never attempted him in the first place. It was shitty, but still there is a great feeling with defeating these difficult bosses. I think that is where a lot of the people who did down him pre 3.0 buff or even pre spell push back nerf from his dark energy. It was a great feeling killing him after 100's of attempts. However the journey to get there was painful and not very fun. I actually, despite class stacking, liked the other boss fights of Kalecgos, Eredar Twins, and Kil'jaeden in Sunwell. Vanilla-Wotlk, for all the faults and experimenting done by blizzard, was a fun time to play. I think the nostalgia as a whole is well warranted.
You started it.
i mean when someone asked what was the hardest boss, just because he was boring that doesnt mean it wasnt him
It was the only fight that I refused to do with an alt (even though all of them were geared appropriately). The most difficult thing I have ever done in my life and the last time I played an enhancement shaman
I might be alone on this, but I actually enjoyed the fight as warrior tank. Tanking the adds was some of the most intensive gaming you got (maybe except praying for the heals to stagger well on Brutalus). Halfway during progress we realised that the tank in charge of the big void add was the cause for most of the wipes, we swapped him and made the kill some 50 pulls later. The pre nerf version was just really blegh. we had the best progress on him on the server and stil only reached 15% in P1.
Years after preacher made this video, it's still glorious to hear him going ballistic on this floating turd of a raid boss.
I never really raided Sunwell, but when someone mentioned that the Muru was the hardest boss and explained me what the fight was like I literally lmfao'ed them cuz they were literally describing an over the top overtuned boss. Same with Kill'jaeden and Archimond both on mythic, when they were called the hardest ever I couldn't understand how something that stupidly overtuned can be called hard, I mean yeah if you count something next to impossible "hard" then it was Hard.
more than that, I cannot remember a single Hard boss in the game that was not overtuned. Well, may be the Lich king was "hard", idk, never really had a problem with not standing in shit/dropping shit under the raid group.
This fight was tough, there's no doubting that, but I think you missed what was amazing about M'uru(yes I was there for it and got a kill)
Even with the right raid comps and using drums and having nothing but stellar players in your guild, M'uru claimed more 1-3% wipes than any other boss in WoW history. You also trivialize the fight quite a bit. Yes those adds came in waves and and it did take a hit of time, but what made the fight incredible and made it real works was the amount of group swapping, focus and overall raid awareness that had to be used. This fight demanded 100% precision, no slip ups to be completed.
Also, my guild killed M'uru without poaching from other guilds or bringing in Alta, we used our raid comp that we had through a 80% of Black Temple and every boss up to M'uru in Sunwell.
+Joseph Alcala Im sure ascendant council heroic was on par with the 1-3%wipes.. Not talking about all the guilds outside of top 5 thats skipped them and came back with better gear..
Sounds good, Cya on the stream mate!
People who wax nostalgic for crap like this do so because, when they played it, they had (and needed) nearly UNLIMITED time to play the game. Everyone in the guild maxing Leatherworking?? Yeah, ok. The reason WoW isn't like this anymore is that the people who have loved it for many years have grown up and have actual responsibilities that make wiping on a boss hundreds of times 4 nights a week literally impossible. If WoW had continued with Raids like Sunwell it would be as dead as a doornail.
I agree with you, wow sucked before compared to what it does now, i started late vanilla, but played vanilla on PS.. i dont see the hype, bad raids when it comes 2 tacts etc
Not true. My TBC guild, Limited Edition on Draka US, killed M'uru pre-nerf. All adults, older people, 14 hours a week / 3 days, with zero extra time. We even killed him while still clearing BT almost every reset.
yeah because the children/adolescents of today have much less time than the children 10 years ago? Nice reasoning.
They dont play WoW, atleast not to the extent the previous generations were.
because it is a garbage time-sink nowadays
This fight was so fucking frustrating.....
"heard something from their brother's sister's cousin's brother" So basically their cousin
Yeah, when people first faced him pre-nerf they thought the eye phase was the whole fight because of the hp ammount.
I felt like the Muru wipes were worth it to get to kiljaeden. That was a fun fight. Did all bosses in sunwell server first on moonrunner :) Just started playing WoW since Ulduar and I'm disappointed about WoD. I am hyped for legion though. I hope blizzard can bring back some of that old school wow feel.
This video got me an idea, what would you say if we had something like brawlers guild for 10 man (25 would be imo way too frustrating) where everyone could choose any class and specialization and you would get lets say 5 near impossible bosses, with no loot, only achivement and server/world first feats of strengh. Everyone would have same ilvl gear.
It would be just for fun to do something on off days - you would constantly shuffle around to finally get these bosses.
I like the story behind M'uru
The awesome thing was all of us in the first kills bashed our heads through 600 or so wipes to wipe again maybe 50times the next week due to rng shit.
It took every thing to down that boss at the pre sunwell nerf. Even on re kills. All while still farming for glaives and skulls.
Wonders of one shotting all of it even twins and still wiping for hours to onshot kil jaeden.
Arguably behind the bullshit in aq40
LOL I remember being in Orgrimmar when SK Gaming/Meet your makers started writing in caps about Munken being the first person to get the epic bow in /2 xD
Never battled him but he sure looks badass. So Blizzard is notorious for never going back to tweak old boss fights so does all this still stand? It would be nice to see them try to make this boss better.
The class changes made over the years have made most raids rather easy to move through at their intended level with a full raid.
Jerry Peet Yeah, general damage/healing/health numbers have increased since the times/patches those bosses were released. Even before the "numbers squish", if you went into a BC raid at level 70, you could probably do it quite easily in quest greens and blues.
gamesmaster35 A long time ago Muru was nerfed into the fucking ground
+gamesmaster35 Typically in the weeks before a new expansion, Blizzard will do a few things: 1) nerf the end-game content so players can see it and 2) buff the classes with all sorts of new mechanics and abilities.
The reason Blizzard has to make bosses with so many mechanics nowadays is because they have trivialized the game mechanics that made the game tough in previous expansions (such as threat, mana requirements, gear choice, talent builds, enemies 1-shotting DPS, CC breaking on DoTs or AoEs, etc). To make challenge, they have to make the rotations more complex, throw in a lot of boss mechanics for you to pay attention to, and then make everything faster paced to test your reaction times.
For this reason, bosses that used previous mechanics become more and more trivial. When you do a boss at the end of an expansion, they will typically have less health and damage output, while your healers have more tools to keep the raid alive, your tanks hold threat even easier, and your damage dealers will output DPS comparable to what an entire group did before.
Move on to the next expansion, and they will add in BoE greens that you can find on the auction house that are comparable, if not better itemized than the gear people were doing when that boss was new. You might be using Mastery from greens in a fight in (whatever was before mastery, I don't remember if that stat was in Wrath or Cata), which was not tuned for players to have those kind of stats.
Blizzard also knows that sometimes mechanics changes can make things harder. For example, in TBC there was no diminishing returns on block or parry, so I'm pretty sure some tanks got hit hard on mitigation when they added in DR for those stats. So they will want to make sure that the fights are nerfed to the point where any loss of functionality is addressed. Going forward, they can design fights with the understanding that tanks have DR on dodge and parry.
This is why I scoffed when I saw Timewalker dungeons are being released. Who cares? Unless you are going to put me in gear similar to what was available then, and give me the game mechanics of TBC (including requiring me to build a new spec and learn a new rotation just for this raid) then you aren't giving me the TBC experience. It's like going camping in a RV, where you have plumbing and electricity, and saying "this is what cavemen had to do." There's no comparison. You're not getting the experience of raid preparation, gating, and game mechanics as they existed. You're just getting to see a boss fight that was designed for a game that basically no longer exists with numbers that make sense to you, instead of going in solo and 1-shotting it.
gamesmaster35 all of it still stands, but the classes have changed considerably. Level 70 twink raids can skip a lot of the hassle, and he’s now thr easiest boss in the instance.
You forgot something Preach... people can’t switch to adds. For whatever reason many ranged dps players are incapable of just changing targets in order to kill adds. If this is true now, I’m sure it was ten times worse during Sunwell.