Don't neglect the possibility of sodium ion taking lithium's place. While not being used in a large scale yet, they are the perfect product for home energy storage and will likely cut battery costs to half of lithium. They still currently have a lower density than lithium but that's ok for stationary storage solutions.
The first SIB's for home storage are expected around summer of 2025 as newer SIB dedicated factories ramp. They likely won't be much cheaper at first though, until supply increases to meet demand.
They also have discharge curve that isn't as flat, which means that you need a more sophisticated inverter. Still, they are better for stationary cost-wise.
Price of lithium has collapsed with poor EV sales in 2024, down to 14k$/ton of LiCl. yet sodium salt batteries wi5 nickel plates installed here are more durable and easely recycled but are heavy and less efficient so for home use only and moderate capacity. a supermarket in Schlieren has 520kWh of sodium salt battery installed but it weight 7 tons...
I agree. I understand soduim energy density is around 100-150watt/kg. It will mostly be sitting and take up some space. But i know that energy density in time will improve.
Crazy that you can buy a 98kwh used F150 Lightning for $30k. Combine that with battery system you can essentially buy a mobile battery with the capacity of 6-7power walls.
Correct, however, we have to factor into account the value that a wall-mounted battery will provide in being able to discharge at a high enough power output to power the loads in the house, through a dedicated connection point in the main service panel.
I've been in the solar industry for 25 years and I work for a company that provides energy storage systems and I am so sad as to the lack of education and training that most solar companies employ when installing residential energy storage systems. The amount of installation errors that I have to deal with in the field is overwhelming! it really makes me sad. In fact, I would rather work with a high-end licensed electrician that has no solar experience then a know it all solar contractor who most certainly does not know it all..
What?!?! My batteries were installed and hung on the wall in a matter of hours. My entire 12 kw system with 22 panels, 2 inverters, and 2 10kwh wall batteries took 1 day. A 2nd day was just to inspect and confirm. The entire system 14,000 USD complete with installation.
@@stopdrpnro Thailand. I can't recall the breakdown. The solar panels are 22 pieces of 545 watt each from Longhi. The inverters (2) are 6 kw each from a company called Deye. The wall battery 10khw (2) are LFP from Taiwan. The I stalkers are like 8 guys. 2 actual electricians and some labor. Labor cost in Thailand is about 10 bucks a day for low end with the electricians maybe 20 bucks a day. I'll ask my wife if she can locate the quote. But the items from China and Taiwan indeed are good value. Going on 2 years and fingers crossed the system works great. Lucky as the overall cost is low and we get lots of "Sun" days. I produce about 50kw per day average and the 20kwh of batteries generally get us through the night until sunrise. My monthly electric bill was around 350 bucks a month now it's average about 6 bucks. I do not sell back to the grid. I realize I'm fortunate with the low cost of goods and labor here.
what *ARE* you talking about ? Duracell 20,000 milliamp·hour alkaline D 20 amp·hour cell 1.5 volts 30 watt·hours $24.49 Amazon, for 24 batteries $1.02 per battery ********* 29 watt·hours per dollar Weize 12 volt Deep Cycle 100 amp·hours lead/acid 1200 watt·hours battery 500 re-charges 600,000 watt hours $151.29 per battery ********** 3,966 watt·hours per dollar Solorage 12 volts LiFePO4 100 amp·hours battery 1200 watt·hours 5,000 re-charges 6,000,000 watt hours $169.99 per battery ******** 35,296 watt·hours per dollar these new Lithium batteries sound like a *bargain* to me !!
In comparison to what? If they are so obscenely expensive why are they in basically every electric device we have? I no of know other energy storage device that is cheaper then a battery. Maybe at scale there are cheaper alternatives. But even then batteries are still used at scale and being successful at it.
@@Catsrules1 It's more about the profiteering than anything else. Also, Alkaline batteries long ago used to last longer than the ones today for some reason. Grandpa constantly has to replace those batteries. He said long ago they would last a lot longer. Personally I have devices that do not use batteries - hand saw is one of them lol Screwdriver?
@@crazysquirrel9425Do you have any examples profiteering? In my experience they have only gotten cheaper. Although that doesn't signify there wasn't profiteering going on. I can't speak on the longevity of Alkaline batteries as I really haven't been paying attention on that unfortunately. Handsaw and screwdriver aren't electronic devices.
@@Catsrules1 But you said 'devices'. Also a bicycle is a device. Look up corporate profits for the battery companies. NO WAY should a 4 pack of lithium batteries ever cost $20. Even Alkaline batteries are high. Using supply chain issues to increase prices is profiteering. Supply chain was NOT as bad off as people are told. Cali is the culprit for some of the supply chain issues. They refused to let ships dock and unload.
Lithium reserves will not sink there is far more than enough Lithium to build all the batteries anyone wants. If supply wanes alternatives will pick up the slack.
LFP prices has gone down because the EV production in China soared however there is a chance that it has peaked because Chinese EV production has also slowed down and the excess LFP went to PV storage. There is also a chance that by 2025 the battery prices will stable or will increase once they slowed down the battery production.
The US has a 100% tariff on Ave vehicles and a 50% batteries. BYD is the largest battery maker in the world and now the largest ev maker. They are targeting the Asian market and they have no interest in the US. US US TAX CREDITS I've added to the price of batteries by 30 to 40% things were cheaper when that was about to expire. China's Evie market has not slowed they are building a plant in Mexico
@@TheFatman819there are more than 80 EV startup in China, and only few of them will surive or will be swallowed by bigger EV companies. Currently they are flooding the Non-EU and North America because of the tariff and Chinese domestic demand have slowed. Currently CATL is working well with Tesla, plus Tesla just closed a deal for I think 20Gigawatt storage in California. Now, many of PV battery are Grade B cells. These are good cells but not able to pass for EV usage. This is why here in Asia, you can buy a 5kw server rack battery for $600-700USD. 550 Watt solar panel for $90USD. Since we don’t have tariffs like in NA and EU, we got them cheaper.
CATL is quoting prices as low $56 per kwh by the end of this year. Assuming no additional tariffs, this is a significant reduction from current pricing.
@@tibsyy895 I suspect he is quoting raw prismatic battery cost. You $660 per kwh is very high but might be correct for ripoffs like Tesla and similar solutions. Go with a solar generator, ground mount solar system if you have the room and a solar generator with a transfer switch and be off-grid as much as possible
In South Africa you can pay as low as $150 per KWH for LFP batteries. I think tariffs in the US for Chinese LFP batteries will increase that price to at least $300. I think margins will also be higher your side so more than likely $400 retail price.
Batteries have been dropping for decades. They are still too expensive. I buy them for disaster recovery purposes. I recently went through 7 days without power. Solar and Batteries was part of the solution (but the major part was still a propane generator).
Additional battery supply was also created when the auto manufacturers reduced their forecast of electric cars. The battery manufacturers had orders in 2022 from them that were dramatically reduced.
There is no reason that the trend in battery prices does not continue. When you look at the 15KWH box on the wall you know we could make that for under $ 1,000 and that's where the price is heading over the next 20yrs. At about half their price now and a 15yr life then nearly every home could afford to buy one knowing they will save money. Think what that does to demand and electricity Grid management when homes start to lift themselves out of the peak period of the day between 3pm to 9pm.
You are absolutely correct. As I posted in another comment, cell pricing was at $110 per Kwh mid-2023 and is in the $76 range today. CATL now predicts $54 per Kwh by year end and $40 next year. It will take some time to work its way through the many product lines but we're already starting to see price reductions on many battery products. If your experienced enough to make it yourself, you could build a battery for a lot less than $1,000 very soon.
What seems to me to be one of the DIY dealls at the moment is the apexium DIY battery $420 plus shipping for the box and $30 -$50 to populate with 16 pieces 320ahr batteries putting it into the $1000 to $2000 range for a 15000kwh battery
I don't know why every one is doing the "Sky is falling" panic about solar in California. Sure, NEM 1.0 and 2.0 were great programs, but they couldn't last forever. I missed out on it and wound up with SPB (Solar Power Billing) or NEM 3.0 The real beauty is that I live in the Mojave Desert and enjoy about 330 days of sunshine a year. During the day I generate enough electricity to power my house and charge my Tesla Powerwall 3.0 and at night my battery powers the house. I am 100% self powered daily. Even better is that in the event of a power outage, my battery supplies power to a "Critical Loads" panel keeping the lights on, the WiFi going and the fridge running. I can almost give the grid my middle finger because I almost don't need it. I do get some credit for the extra power I generate but I almost don't need it. In some ways I like the idea of being 100% self powered much better than playing the NEM game with the utility. With the price of batteries going down more people should go this route. The end of NEM 1.0 and 2.0'did not kill solar in California, I believe over-,saturation killed it. For the last several years, all new homes were required to include solar. This only leaves existing homes to market solar to. And there has been an aggressive push in solar for many years. Sooner or later that well is going to run dry, we might be getting there. And, not everyone can afford it, and not all homes are a good candidate for solar.
I bought an EA Sun 5.1 kWh battery. $1500 cost (w/ shipping) was about same as my 6 kW inverter (EG4 6000XP). EG4 recommended twice the battery, but mine suffices for my need of getting thru the "4 to 8 pm peak Summer rate" after solar tapers off. Wasn't going to pay $2500 for twice the battery. I can add more battery as prices drop. It hangs on the wall beside the inverter, looking clean and slick. 100 lb which I might have "bench-pressed" onto the hanger, but didn't want to risk dropping the beast so used my hydraulic engine lift.
There is also the issue of a utility paying a premium for power when they have a need for it. This makes sense for both home battles as well as systems using EV batteries being able to feed power to a Utility.
It just depends on what kind of battery system you are looking to invest into. If you are looking at using smaller LifePower4 48V batteries, and you have a hybrid inverter, it is going to be much lower cost. If you are looking at using a wall-mounted AC/DC coupled battery which has more functionalities, that cost will be higher.
@@Green-Hatter 4x 280ah 3.2v lifepo4 eve cells from china. 320 usd total for 4kwh. built my own 12v battery to replace my ev's old agm battery and wired up 200w of flexible solar on the roof to keep it charged up. back feeding my house with a 50w chinease microinverter which cost 32 bucks. the mppt charge controller from easun power 30a was 28 usd. i made a post in the gm chevy volt forums under the gen1 modifications section if you want to read more and see all the pictures i uploaded.
Great content. Thanks. Wondering how you view the introduction of Sodium Ion batteries affecting prices & use ... believe these batteries are happy with high temperatures, low temperatures & aren't affected by being taken to 0% charge ? Plus, any guess on when they'd be available for domestic use
One factor could be many people who would be possible buyers of battery systems have already purchased theirs and therefore those people are less likely or not likely to purchase anymore taking them out of the market.Also the economy dictates the industry to lower prices or not make sales.
In fact, the percentage of homeowners in the USA who have solar and have a battery system connected is well under 15%. I would say that their is a large area for growth, as long as costs continue to come down.
The biggest concern I have is all of the meddling in the free market (government "incentives" and tariffs) that will drive the price of both PV panels and various battery solutions back up again, but mostly for domestic suppliers in the US.
About time. ATm a car with battery costs the same as home battery with the same capacity. It's nonsensical. That said, I haven't seen any noticeable price reduction yet.
In addition to tax credits to battery manufacturers, the IRA provides 30% tax credits to homeowners and businesses who buy and install solar and/or battery systems. These credits are good until 2033, giving manufacturers confidence to expand battery manufacturing facilities. In 2034, the credit drops to 26%
Breakthroughs in recycling technology should help reduce the cost of the raw elements used in batteries. There will come a point, where no additional mining will be necessary to maintain the market. The only mining from then on, would be to expand the market. Once those materials are in the market, they too, will remain in the market. That eliminates pollution from disposal, as well as provide a cheap source of the raw elements.
That does sound good but it's wrong though. Look at plastics. Recycling is a myth. There's enough plastic in this world to never have to produce anymore ever again. But it's still way cheaper to make new plastic then it costs to recycle it and reuse it. Only about 10 percent is actually recycled the rest is sent overseas for poor countries to deal with it.
My priority is "Back UP Power". So, I have been working systematically. When I move, everything will come with me. Resulting in lower cost per Watt-hour.
I made the plunge with a Bluetti for partial home backup and Delta Pro for an off grid workshop. I am banking on being able to expand at a fraction of my initial cost. I realize technology will change, capacity will only get better. In my opinion the companies that will thrive will be the ones that can seamlessly upgrade or replace my existing batteries. As adding panels, transfer switches, etc can cost more than a fairly large capacity battery. Get me a plug and play bidirectional V2H EV charger and Ill be happy.
You're talking about Hobby gear, you're not even in the same ballpark. This guy is talking about long-term high-quality residential installations with 10 year warranties.
@@boblatkey7160 My hobby gear cost a fraction of a 'useless 10 year warranty' - runs my workshop and critical load panel perfectly fine while leaving me enough cash for additional solar and later expansion. Just because YOU think it requires an 'expert' does not make the rest of us idiots.
it depends on where you live. Installation time for batteries is here short, within a month or the installer gets no contracts. The whole installations here are prepared for hybrid use first. Makes no sense. Here the kWh price is about 130€ or 140$ for 14 kWh kit. Those are kits , just 1 hour to get the cells into the case and connect the harnesses and batteries. If you buy those ready to use then the price is about 3 times of that . 14 kWh below 2000€ or between 6000€ to 8000€ for Huawei storages. Tesla does not sell well here. Too expensive , too exotic unless you own a tesla car too.
Lithium extraction by geothermal process has lowered the price by making lithium available quicker to be processed. Look at what's happening in the Salton Sea and El Dorado, Arkansas. It's the new way of getting lithium out without the environmental impact.
Prices are following the traditional model for product (both for whole home battery systems and for solar panels). We're getting out of the early adopter phase and mass market prices are necessary to sustain market growth. Because the audience is larger, there are more providers trying to tackle this which is part of what is leading to the over supply. This is driving prices down. While the demand is there for this market, higher prices aren't sustainable so profit is being driven through economies of scale over the larger demand. We won't see a price bump until the cycle changes with some new innovation. It's turtles all the way down from here.
Nuclear electricity biggest problem is that it is GRID ELECTRICITY. The Grid makes dirt cheap electricity expensive, extremely expensive in an all electric home with EVs or BVs. With Battery Vehicles, Electric vehicles, parked 23hrs every day, FREE storage is available. Rooftop solar PV and EV big batteries and no grid electricity is ezi pezi.
Maybe If you work nightshift and your car were parked at home durring the day. But most workers work durring the day and will need a battery that stays at home, which means either having a traditional home battery or two BEV's which alternate being the stay-at-home battery while the other takes you to work.
@@kennethferland5579 a standard wall outlet and trickle charging is all that would be needed. Wall outlet are very cheap. Not all work places will have them. But things will change. Some people will be very slow to change and petrol will be available for years.
Without net metering, power companies are just precipitating their own demise. 1 to 1 net metering saves them transmission costs. Removing that creates conditions where batteries make economic sense, which means less business. I'd fire anyone who suggested net metering is bad idea if I ran a power company. They are obviously incompetent.
Prices will drop even more. Wait buying. Battery production volumes are going up, same way that flat tv screens and solar panels that are still falling in price. 1 hour installation is the way to go.
@@boblatkey7160 There will always be exceptions, but in general the main panel is in an accessible area on all houses and if there is a garage or carport it’s close by and so on.
Sodium-ion starter batteries are available on Amazon, but 3x the price of LFP. Most of them are for motorcycles, but there’s a 50ah & a 100ah too for cars. Great that there’s no lithium, but LFP is the way to go for now. NMC has been obsolete since 2017, yet 100% of battery naysayers are still talking about leadacid…..
It depends on which country you are . Labour cost in first world countries is very high and made worse if you live in rural areas where there is only a handfull of installers and competition is less. Even if you have $2000 solar battery but labour cost is also $3000 then buying the solar battery is not worth buying.
It will go down even further. Look at Ecoflow. That a have a TON of options even within the same capacity. It's oversaturated. Also, a diff topic but the portable power station category is giving competition to fixed home battery systems. Costco right now has a 18kwh system for 8,000. I do believe that holding out will be the wise choice as I think the market is very saturated with offerings.
You are correct in that there is no such thing as a "Solar Battery". What I am referring to are AC/DC Coupled wall-mounted deep-cycle batteries that are engineered to be paired with a Solar PV system. Not to be confused with small portable batteries, car batteries, or 1.5V batteries.
They have meter collars for EV chargers too. Will Prowse can install a battery in minutes but he has everything setup and does it every couple weeks. Sodium Ion will crush LFP for home storage.
"Stick around until the end because I'll be going over whether or not I believe it would be better for you to keep holding out for lower prices or pull the trigger now." At the end - "2024 is one of the best years to get a backup battery system for your home, however holding out for lower prices is something that I could view as a rational decision." You don't "go over whether or not you believe that," you quickly justify both. It's basically clickbait. Do better.
lifepo4 280ah cells -2 years ago cost about 150$, year ago cost about 100$ or more - now about 50-60$ - also almost brand new batteries from salvage cars drop signifinacantly - 1-1,5year ago 60-70kWh kia battery cost about 7500-8000$ in my country, now 4500-5000$ - I am wondering IF or WHEN 1kWh will drop to about 10$
Thanks for this overview of the solar and battery market in the United States. You have some advantages in the subsidies available to US based consumers in the Inflation reduction act. In New Zealand, we had some incentives for the purchase of Electric Vehicles, but it expired at the end of 2023. But as you have pointed out the primary driver of uptake of Solar energy storage Batteries is Innovation and market forces. An updated and genuine illustration of supply and demand, as learned in Economics 101 playing out in real time in 2024.
plus people like Will Prowse, have show people how cheap and crapy the low end batters were built. but those communist chinese corps have stepped up there game. but not all. some of the better American brands have tried to lower there prices due to the cheap units coming in from china. but there people like me are priced out of the market. at tidays pricing i would still need $10 grand USD to buy the correct amount and style of battery i need. then the solar, but that would be killed of by a increase in my taxes. ( improvements what the calls it).
I’m tired of the solar marketing hype. For the money we’re getting a (natural gas generator) installed for home back up. Not a battery No more wasting precious time adjusting solar panels every hour, that may or may not work because of the weather. Camping? Sure bring the battery. Otherwise look elsewhere. The technology just isn’t there yet.
A Google search shows, "In 2021, you'd pay $12,000 for a 13.5 kilowatt Tesla Powerwall, and the cost has since come down a bit to $11,500 for a single unit. " I may be wrong, but that does not look anywhere close to a 40% drop in battery price. I am looking to buy. Please show me I am wrong.
@@IJRPUBLIC In 2021, a Tesla Powerwall 2, along with the additional Tesla firmware necessary to connect and commission the system would have run ≈ $17,500. With the newer Powerwall 3, you will be looking at just under ≈ $11,000. Though, it will vary depending on the market you are in among other factors.
Well, that is not a real world number. You can buy an LG home eight complete system, which is a 7500 W inverter and 14.4 kWh of usable energy storage for $7200.. I installed everything myself and took the tax credit and my payback period Is 2.8 years.
@@boblatkey7160 Bingo, and that's still pricy. If you built your own 15kwh battery with quality cells from EVE and got one of the all in one inverters like an EG4, you could save another 40% or so.
Some observations from a DIY person. Biden has doubled the tariffs on Chinese products, so I’m figuring this is on solar batteries, panels, inverters. A lot of the installers have gone bankrupt, leaving their consumers with no way to fix problems that may arrive. It’s never been easier to DIY your own system, especially if it’s off grid or hybrid. I would stay away from grid tide systems, as when the grid goes down your solar goes down with it. Also, it’s a bad idea to lease your panels, when you try to sell your house it will be much harder! People don’t want two different payments on a house they buy.
Well, the build America program from Biden has also brought foreigners into America and they are going to build the batteries right here in America and skip the tariffs and provide tons of high paying jobs right in America.
What about salt ion and other new battery tech dropping the price of the older tech? Also higher levels of adoption. Battery shipping costs to NZ is still rough, our smaller market doesn't help, we also have cheap ish power & a lowering buy back. So payback period is longer. $0.23 NZD/unit, but you can get deals with lower night rates, free power hours off peak. For a short term payback a system spec'd for peak usage in the middle of the day, self installed with no batteries makes sense. Or your off grid and it costs to much to get power to site.
Can you please do a video on panel maintenance? Installing panels on the ground makes cleaning them easy, but not all houses have enough yard area for that.
I would, however it is not super complicated. I recommend hiring a local solar panel company to come out 1-2 times a year, usually after spring and summer time to clean the panels. Shouldn't cost more than $150 for the average sized system
I have a Tesla PW3 with the meter collar. Tesla did the install. At the time I paid cash for the system and did not get a 2nd battery. In hindsight, having the second battery would have been the way to go. I think by the end of the year I'll get a second.
@@solarprosteam Sacramento area. It went very fast. I contacted them in late Feb, everything was done by end of May. It would have been done sooner but I had some conflicts with scheduling dates. We got PTO from PGE within 2 weeks of final inspection as well. That was a real surprise since we were told it could take up to two months.
Yes, they are, I work for an extremely large battery manufacturer, and we have dropped our prices a number of times and we have a huge market share. And the only reason we have dropped, our prices is because we need to stay competitive in the market. So you're kind of full of it there buddy.
It will take a few years for them to ramp up mass production to get anywhere near the prices of LFP cells coming out of China. Look up EVE lifepo cells, they're insanely cheap. Also of note: many of the sodium cells currently on the market from overseas vendors are not actually sodium cells, but LFP cells they're lying about. There are very few sodium cells actually making it onto the market yet, and the feedback on them is that they're clearly a first generation product, and not ready for most people.
You appear to have forgotten or be unaware that sodium ion batteries are moving onto the market as ell and giga factories are going to be ramping up in the next few years and will free up a lot of lithium batteries for cars. .
There is no such thing as a "Solar Battery". What I am referring to are high voltage wall-mounted deep-cycle batteries that are engineered to be paired with a Solar PV system. Not to be confused with small portable batteries, car batteries, or 1.5V batteries
This guy keeps using the term "Solar Battery". What is the difference between a "Solar Battery" and a battery? Nothing? Then why are we calling the batteries "Solar batteries"? I am open to correction.
You are correct in that there is no such thing as a "Solar Battery". What I am referring to are AC/DC Coupled wall-mounted deep-cycle batteries that are engineered to be paired with a Solar PV system. Not to be confused with small portable batteries, car batteries, or 1.5V batteries.
One more variable why solar batteries cost has soften and that is the slow down in Electric Vehicle sales in the USA. Plus, the more popular EV choice - Hybrids.
ALL vehicle sales have dropped in the US. EV sales have dropped less in certain categories. The main problem is with the quality of available EV'S in the US.
Politicians really want you forget that this is capitalism working properly. If this wasn't a capitalist society, what incentive would there be to make the installation easier? It does cut down jobs, but it allows products to be more affordable for the common man. Everybody focuses on the few major flaws of capitalism and forgets that the vast majority of the time, it really does work just fine.
@@awesomeferret So "it cuts down on jobs and makes things more affordable for the common man" . Therefore as long as you're not the common man who loses his job, everything is fine! That's your idea of how capitalism is working? Shouldn't it work for everyone who wants to work and is able to work, rather than taking jobs away from some?
@@simonpaine2347 I can't tell if you're arguing with malicious intent or just have really bad reading comprehension skills. I wish I had time to respond, but I don't have time today to respond in detail to someone who starts off by intentionally or unintentionally with bad faith arguments. You know full well the majority of people in the USA are not poor. If you want to have a debate, don't start off with something that a child can debunk. 😂 The "common man" is still lower middle class and you know it. I hope you grow up someday and stop treating economics like religion. Have a nice day.
@@awesomeferret All I did was quote your own words back to you and asked if that was how you understood how capitalism is, or should be working. If you struggle to understand your own words, then we will really struggle to make any headway. As for you not having time to respond, well I'd suggest that if you haven't got time to backup or explain your assertions, then perhaps don't waste your precious time making comments in the first place.
@@awesomeferret The official poverty rate in 2022 was 11.5 percent, with 37.9 million people in poverty. Neither the rate nor the number in poverty was significantly different from 2021.
We use 240 volts, so what's your problem with that? We split it and use 120V from each phase for small appliances and lights, but all large loads are 240vac. Every house has 240VAC mains. There is no issue. Also, there are two kinds of countries, those who use metric, and those who have sent men to the moon and brought them back safely. Tell me more about your country! 😂
We have 240v in all but the oldest houses. They are used for stoves, dryers, water heaters, AC units, etc.. My EV charger is 240v at 48amps and my house was built in 1956. Not old for Europe but pretty old for the US. I agree with you on the metric system though.
It’s simple, battery are expensive power, solar is way too cheap solar so you can have 15kwh of solar and a mere 28kwh of battery and you are pretty much sufficient for a normal 2adult 2 infants home. If there is no demand, prices are going down.
@@phyllisclayton8320 nowdays around 100$/kwh , I have bought for 55$/kwh but I can’t promise they are the same brand,longevity and quality as the more expensive ones
You have not factored in to Sodium Ion Batterries !! do your Research they have become more comparative Vs Lithium in terms of per KG energy density !!! 270/kg Vs Litium 250 to 300/KG and in few months will be equal !!!
Why don't you do your research! By 2030 the battery market will still be over 80% lithium! Sodium batteries are going to come but they are going to be slow and requires a lot of reworking of inverters and electrical control systems. Just because you read it in popular science magazine, doesn't mean it's gonna happen tomorrow!
They need to fall a long way they are extremely overpriced compared to batteries for EV's. Thats before installation. They are something like 7 times more expensive.
Don't neglect the possibility of sodium ion taking lithium's place. While not being used in a large scale yet, they are the perfect product for home energy storage and will likely cut battery costs to half of lithium. They still currently have a lower density than lithium but that's ok for stationary storage solutions.
The first SIB's for home storage are expected around summer of 2025 as newer SIB dedicated factories ramp. They likely won't be much cheaper at first though, until supply increases to meet demand.
They also have discharge curve that isn't as flat, which means that you need a more sophisticated inverter. Still, they are better for stationary cost-wise.
Price of lithium has collapsed with poor EV sales in 2024, down to 14k$/ton of LiCl. yet sodium salt batteries wi5 nickel plates installed here are more durable and easely recycled but are heavy and less efficient so for home use only and moderate capacity. a supermarket in Schlieren has 520kWh of sodium salt battery installed but it weight 7 tons...
I agree. I understand soduim energy density is around 100-150watt/kg. It will mostly be sitting and take up some space. But i know that energy density in time will improve.
Catl is making sodium ion batteries for byd ev this year!
Crazy that you can buy a 98kwh used F150 Lightning for $30k. Combine that with battery system you can essentially buy a mobile battery with the capacity of 6-7power walls.
In my country South Africa you can buy 100kwh worth of LFP batteries for $14500. Depending on the brand of course. Prices have dropped a lot.
Correct, however, we have to factor into account the value that a wall-mounted battery will provide in being able to discharge at a high enough power output to power the loads in the house, through a dedicated connection point in the main service panel.
Where can I buy a used Lightning for $30k? I'll buy that in cash right now.
@@meikgeik Just the battery, I suspect. The truck it came from has probably been totaled.
Ev's keep lovking ppl out or in with their child while they watch it burn & wait on the fire department & who knows?
I've been in the solar industry for 25 years and I work for a company that provides energy storage systems and I am so sad as to the lack of education and training that most solar companies employ when installing residential energy storage systems. The amount of installation errors that I have to deal with in the field is overwhelming! it really makes me sad. In fact, I would rather work with a high-end licensed electrician that has no solar experience then a know it all solar contractor who most certainly does not know it all..
That’s the problem with DIY and lack of need qualifications required to install
To many cowboys and lack of regulation
What?!?! My batteries were installed and hung on the wall in a matter of hours. My entire 12 kw system with 22 panels, 2 inverters, and 2 10kwh wall batteries took 1 day. A 2nd day was just to inspect and confirm. The entire system 14,000 USD complete with installation.
Dang
That's amazing.
Mind sharing your location and equipment?? That's a great price!
@@stopdrpnro Thailand. I can't recall the breakdown. The solar panels are 22 pieces of 545 watt each from Longhi. The inverters (2) are 6 kw each from a company called Deye. The wall battery 10khw (2) are LFP from Taiwan. The I stalkers are like 8 guys. 2 actual electricians and some labor. Labor cost in Thailand is about 10 bucks a day for low end with the electricians maybe 20 bucks a day. I'll ask my wife if she can locate the quote. But the items from China and Taiwan indeed are good value. Going on 2 years and fingers crossed the system works great. Lucky as the overall cost is low and we get lots of "Sun" days. I produce about 50kw per day average and the 20kwh of batteries generally get us through the night until sunrise. My monthly electric bill was around 350 bucks a month now it's average about 6 bucks. I do not sell back to the grid. I realize I'm fortunate with the low cost of goods and labor here.
@@stopdrpnroOh the company is called Solar Solutions ltd Thailand they have a website but that won't do you much good. 😊
Batteries are obscenely overpriced for what you get.
About time prices started dropping. But thy are STILL too high.
what *ARE* you talking about ?
Duracell 20,000 milliamp·hour
alkaline D 20 amp·hour
cell 1.5 volts
30 watt·hours
$24.49 Amazon, for
24 batteries
$1.02 per battery
********* 29 watt·hours per dollar
Weize 12 volt
Deep Cycle 100 amp·hours
lead/acid 1200 watt·hours
battery 500 re-charges
600,000 watt hours
$151.29 per battery
********** 3,966 watt·hours per dollar
Solorage 12 volts
LiFePO4 100 amp·hours
battery 1200 watt·hours
5,000 re-charges
6,000,000 watt hours
$169.99 per battery
******** 35,296 watt·hours per dollar
these new Lithium batteries sound like a *bargain* to me !!
In comparison to what?
If they are so obscenely expensive why are they in basically every electric device we have?
I no of know other energy storage device that is cheaper then a battery.
Maybe at scale there are cheaper alternatives. But even then batteries are still used at scale and being successful at it.
@@Catsrules1 It's more about the profiteering than anything else.
Also, Alkaline batteries long ago used to last longer than the ones today for some reason.
Grandpa constantly has to replace those batteries. He said long ago they would last a lot longer.
Personally I have devices that do not use batteries - hand saw is one of them lol
Screwdriver?
@@crazysquirrel9425Do you have any examples profiteering? In my experience they have only gotten cheaper. Although that doesn't signify there wasn't profiteering going on.
I can't speak on the longevity of Alkaline batteries as I really haven't been paying attention on that unfortunately.
Handsaw and screwdriver aren't electronic devices.
@@Catsrules1 But you said 'devices'.
Also a bicycle is a device.
Look up corporate profits for the battery companies.
NO WAY should a 4 pack of lithium batteries ever cost $20.
Even Alkaline batteries are high.
Using supply chain issues to increase prices is profiteering.
Supply chain was NOT as bad off as people are told.
Cali is the culprit for some of the supply chain issues. They refused to let ships dock and unload.
Lithium reserves will not sink there is far more than enough Lithium to build all the batteries anyone wants. If supply wanes alternatives will pick up the slack.
There have been several deposited of lithium found in Nevada, Oregon, and Pennsylvania recently. Between 20,000 and 40,000 kilotons
100 AH LFP on Amazon higher than start of year? what kind of crash is that
LFP prices has gone down because the EV production in China soared however there is a chance that it has peaked because Chinese EV production has also slowed down and the excess LFP went to PV storage.
There is also a chance that by 2025 the battery prices will stable or will increase once they slowed down the battery production.
The US has a 100% tariff on Ave vehicles and a 50% batteries. BYD is the largest battery maker in the world and now the largest ev maker. They are targeting the Asian market and they have no interest in the US. US US TAX CREDITS I've added to the price of batteries by 30 to 40% things were cheaper when that was about to expire. China's Evie market has not slowed they are building a plant in Mexico
@@TheFatman819there are more than 80 EV startup in China, and only few of them will surive or will be swallowed by bigger EV companies.
Currently they are flooding the Non-EU and North America because of the tariff and Chinese domestic demand have slowed.
Currently CATL is working well with Tesla, plus Tesla just closed a deal for I think 20Gigawatt storage in California.
Now, many of PV battery are Grade B cells. These are good cells but not able to pass for EV usage. This is why here in Asia, you can buy a 5kw server rack battery for $600-700USD.
550 Watt solar panel for $90USD. Since we don’t have tariffs like in NA and EU, we got them cheaper.
CATL is quoting prices as low $56 per kwh by the end of this year. Assuming no additional tariffs, this is a significant reduction from current pricing.
Per kWh now it's around $660!
You saying it's gonna be $56?
I don't see that coming!
Source?
I heard the same but not with yer math.
@@tibsyy895 I suspect he is quoting raw prismatic battery cost. You $660 per kwh is very high but might be correct for ripoffs like Tesla and similar solutions. Go with a solar generator, ground mount solar system if you have the room and a solar generator with a transfer switch and be off-grid as much as possible
In South Africa you can pay as low as $150 per KWH for LFP batteries. I think tariffs in the US for Chinese LFP batteries will increase that price to at least $300. I think margins will also be higher your side so more than likely $400 retail price.
@@tibsyy895 Source is CATL itself on their website. This is at the cell level, which currently is around $100 to $120 for LFP.
Batteries have been dropping for decades. They are still too expensive. I buy them for disaster recovery purposes. I recently went through 7 days without power. Solar and Batteries was part of the solution (but the major part was still a propane generator).
Fit one with solar on the Van, very useable, also can charge engine battery.
A DIY 15kwh battery can be built for under $2k with reputable cells. How is that too expensive?
Additional battery supply was also created when the auto manufacturers reduced their forecast of electric cars. The battery manufacturers had orders in 2022 from them that were dramatically reduced.
Correct, that it playing into the oversupply factor for the raw material costs.
There is no reason that the trend in battery prices does not continue. When you look at the 15KWH box on the wall you know we could make that for under $ 1,000 and that's where the price is heading over the next 20yrs. At about half their price now and a 15yr life then nearly every home could afford to buy one knowing they will save money. Think what that does to demand and electricity Grid management when homes start to lift themselves out of the peak period of the day between 3pm to 9pm.
You are absolutely correct. As I posted in another comment, cell pricing was at $110 per Kwh mid-2023 and is in the $76 range today. CATL now predicts $54 per Kwh by year end and $40 next year. It will take some time to work its way through the many product lines but we're already starting to see price reductions on many battery products. If your experienced enough to make it yourself, you could build a battery for a lot less than $1,000 very soon.
It might already be to late, as 25% tariffs on batteries are here.
What seems to me to be one of the DIY dealls at the moment is the apexium DIY battery $420 plus shipping for the box and $30 -$50 to populate with 16 pieces 320ahr batteries putting it into the $1000 to $2000 range for a 15000kwh battery
This is the way.
I'll believe it when I see it.
I don't know why every one is doing the "Sky is falling" panic about solar in California. Sure, NEM 1.0 and 2.0 were great programs, but they couldn't last forever. I missed out on it and wound up with SPB (Solar Power Billing) or NEM 3.0
The real beauty is that I live in the Mojave Desert and enjoy about 330 days of sunshine a year. During the day I generate enough electricity to power my house and charge my Tesla Powerwall 3.0 and at night my battery powers the house. I am 100% self powered daily. Even better is that in the event of a power outage, my battery supplies power to a "Critical Loads" panel keeping the lights on, the WiFi going and the fridge running.
I can almost give the grid my middle finger because I almost don't need it. I do get some credit for the extra power I generate but I almost don't need it. In some ways I like the idea of being 100% self powered much better than playing the NEM game with the utility. With the price of batteries going down more people should go this route.
The end of NEM 1.0 and 2.0'did not kill solar in California, I believe over-,saturation killed it. For the last several years, all new homes were required to include solar. This only leaves existing homes to market solar to. And there has been an aggressive push in solar for many years. Sooner or later that well is going to run dry, we might be getting there. And, not everyone can afford it, and not all homes are a good candidate for solar.
Perhaps the use of sodium instead of lithium will keep the price low?
They should be coming soon, but by 2030 market estimates are still over 80% lithium.
Prices are falling because this is an elective purchase and people are broke
Bingo.
I bought an EA Sun 5.1 kWh battery. $1500 cost (w/ shipping) was about same as my 6 kW inverter (EG4 6000XP). EG4 recommended twice the battery, but mine suffices for my need of getting thru the "4 to 8 pm peak Summer rate" after solar tapers off. Wasn't going to pay $2500 for twice the battery. I can add more battery as prices drop. It hangs on the wall beside the inverter, looking clean and slick. 100 lb which I might have "bench-pressed" onto the hanger, but didn't want to risk dropping the beast so used my hydraulic engine lift.
There is also the issue of a utility paying a premium for power when they have a need for it. This makes sense for both home battles as well as systems using EV batteries being able to feed power to a Utility.
still waiting for Ecoflow to drop their battery prices, wonder how much longer I'll wait
lol people doing diy are saving 90% thats why imo. 16kwh lfp bat = $1400 now lol
It just depends on what kind of battery system you are looking to invest into. If you are looking at using smaller LifePower4 48V batteries, and you have a hybrid inverter, it is going to be much lower cost. If you are looking at using a wall-mounted AC/DC coupled battery which has more functionalities, that cost will be higher.
Which battery?
@@Green-Hatter 4x 280ah 3.2v lifepo4 eve cells from china. 320 usd total for 4kwh. built my own 12v battery to replace my ev's old agm battery and wired up 200w of flexible solar on the roof to keep it charged up. back feeding my house with a 50w chinease microinverter which cost 32 bucks. the mppt charge controller from easun power 30a was 28 usd. i made a post in the gm chevy volt forums under the gen1 modifications section if you want to read more and see all the pictures i uploaded.
Great content. Thanks. Wondering how you view the introduction of Sodium Ion batteries affecting prices & use ... believe these batteries are happy with high temperatures, low temperatures & aren't affected by being taken to 0% charge ? Plus, any guess on when they'd be available for domestic use
They will continue to fall.
One factor could be many people who would be possible buyers of battery systems have already purchased theirs and therefore those people are less likely or not likely to purchase anymore taking them out of the market.Also the economy dictates the industry to lower prices or not make sales.
In fact, the percentage of homeowners in the USA who have solar and have a battery system connected is well under 15%. I would say that their is a large area for growth, as long as costs continue to come down.
The biggest concern I have is all of the meddling in the free market (government "incentives" and tariffs) that will drive the price of both PV panels and various battery solutions back up again, but mostly for domestic suppliers in the US.
About time. ATm a car with battery costs the same as home battery with the same capacity. It's nonsensical. That said, I haven't seen any noticeable price reduction yet.
Nice video. Thanks Biden for the inflation reduction act to help lower the cost of solar technology.
In addition to tax credits to battery manufacturers, the IRA provides 30% tax credits to homeowners and businesses who buy and install solar and/or battery systems. These credits are good until 2033, giving manufacturers confidence to expand battery manufacturing facilities. In 2034, the credit drops to 26%
What does the Irish Republic Army have to do with it.
Breakthroughs in recycling technology should help reduce the cost of the raw elements used in batteries. There will come a point, where no additional mining will be necessary to maintain the market. The only mining from then on, would be to expand the market. Once those materials are in the market, they too, will remain in the market. That eliminates pollution from disposal, as well as provide a cheap source of the raw elements.
That does sound good but it's wrong though. Look at plastics. Recycling is a myth. There's enough plastic in this world to never have to produce anymore ever again. But it's still way cheaper to make new plastic then it costs to recycle it and reuse it. Only about 10 percent is actually recycled the rest is sent overseas for poor countries to deal with it.
Maybe like plastic bottles where it is actually more expensive to recycle a plastic bottle than it is to purchase raw virgin polyethylene? 😂😂😂
My priority is "Back UP Power". So, I have been working systematically. When I move, everything will come with me. Resulting in lower cost per Watt-hour.
I made the plunge with a Bluetti for partial home backup and Delta Pro for an off grid workshop. I am banking on being able to expand at a fraction of my initial cost. I realize technology will change, capacity will only get better. In my opinion the companies that will thrive will be the ones that can seamlessly upgrade or replace my existing batteries. As adding panels, transfer switches, etc can cost more than a fairly large capacity battery. Get me a plug and play bidirectional V2H EV charger and Ill be happy.
You're talking about Hobby gear, you're not even in the same ballpark. This guy is talking about long-term high-quality residential installations with 10 year warranties.
@@boblatkey7160 My hobby gear cost a fraction of a 'useless 10 year warranty' - runs my workshop and critical load panel perfectly fine while leaving me enough cash for additional solar and later expansion. Just because YOU think it requires an 'expert' does not make the rest of us idiots.
@@cobom1628 that's fine, check back in a couple of years and we'll see if it's still working! 😂😂😂😂 have fun with Chinese customer support!
I don't see battery prices lower as I brought 24 AGM Batteries for our system in late 2019 for $590/ea. The same batteries are not $710/ea.
Why are you looking at AGM? It's dead by now.
it depends on where you live.
Installation time for batteries is here short, within a month or the installer gets no contracts.
The whole installations here are prepared for hybrid use first.
Makes no sense. Here the kWh price is about 130€ or 140$ for 14 kWh kit.
Those are kits , just 1 hour to get the cells into the case and connect the harnesses and batteries.
If you buy those ready to use then the price is about 3 times of that . 14 kWh below 2000€ or between 6000€ to 8000€ for Huawei storages.
Tesla does not sell well here. Too expensive , too exotic unless you own a tesla car too.
Lithium extraction by geothermal process has lowered the price by making lithium available quicker to be processed. Look at what's happening in the Salton Sea and El Dorado, Arkansas. It's the new way of getting lithium out without the environmental impact.
Hold out.California needs them
I put thumb in mouth n blew so say when.
Now?
Prices are following the traditional model for product (both for whole home battery systems and for solar panels). We're getting out of the early adopter phase and mass market prices are necessary to sustain market growth. Because the audience is larger, there are more providers trying to tackle this which is part of what is leading to the over supply. This is driving prices down. While the demand is there for this market, higher prices aren't sustainable so profit is being driven through economies of scale over the larger demand. We won't see a price bump until the cycle changes with some new innovation.
It's turtles all the way down from here.
Nuclear electricity biggest problem is that it is GRID ELECTRICITY.
The Grid makes dirt cheap electricity expensive, extremely expensive in an all electric home with EVs or BVs.
With Battery Vehicles, Electric vehicles, parked 23hrs every day, FREE storage is available.
Rooftop solar PV and EV big batteries and no grid electricity is ezi pezi.
Maybe If you work nightshift and your car were parked at home durring the day. But most workers work durring the day and will need a battery that stays at home, which means either having a traditional home battery or two BEV's which alternate being the stay-at-home battery while the other takes you to work.
@@kennethferland5579 a standard wall outlet and trickle charging is all that would be needed.
Wall outlet are very cheap.
Not all work places will have them.
But things will change.
Some people will be very slow to change and petrol will be available for years.
Selling the idea that battery costs are a major cost is deceptive. I like golf cart batteries in series, never parallel. Thumbs down.
Without net metering, power companies are just precipitating their own demise.
1 to 1 net metering saves them transmission costs. Removing that creates conditions where batteries make economic sense, which means less business.
I'd fire anyone who suggested net metering is bad idea if I ran a power company. They are obviously incompetent.
Why do you think it happened in Commiefornia first? Lmao
Have you ever experienced Communism? Or do you just believe everything that Fox News tells you?
Prices will drop even more. Wait buying. Battery production volumes are going up, same way that flat tv screens and solar panels that are still falling in price. 1 hour installation is the way to go.
One hour installation is fantasy land for people with high-end homes and lots of large inductive loads.
@@boblatkey7160 There will always be exceptions, but in general the main panel is in an accessible area on all houses and if there is a garage or carport it’s close by and so on.
@@peteroffpist1621 understood, I've only been doing it for about 25 years
Can't be possible! We're in the middle of inflation. If we're not in inflation, clearly another example of the rich bilking their customers.
Sodium-ion starter batteries are available on Amazon, but 3x the price of LFP. Most of them are for motorcycles, but there’s a 50ah & a 100ah too for cars. Great that there’s no lithium, but LFP is the way to go for now. NMC has been obsolete since 2017, yet 100% of battery naysayers are still talking about leadacid…..
It depends on which country you are . Labour cost in first world countries is very high and made worse if you live in rural areas where there is only a handfull of installers and competition is less. Even if you have $2000 solar battery but labour cost is also $3000 then buying the solar battery is not worth buying.
It will go down even further. Look at Ecoflow. That a have a TON of options even within the same capacity. It's oversaturated. Also, a diff topic but the portable power station category is giving competition to fixed home battery systems. Costco right now has a 18kwh system for 8,000. I do believe that holding out will be the wise choice as I think the market is very saturated with offerings.
Capacitors makes more sense in my opinion. They don't need to hold every for a long time and are basically indestructible.
The Solar Battery - WTF is that?! How about wind batteries?
You are correct in that there is no such thing as a "Solar Battery". What I am referring to are AC/DC Coupled wall-mounted deep-cycle batteries that are engineered to be paired with a Solar PV system. Not to be confused with small portable batteries, car batteries, or 1.5V batteries.
i sure haven't seen it. If they had dropped 40% I'd have 50kwh worth of storage.
I will have to make the video...
The 5 minute installation.
I'm building 15kwh 48v batteries for $1700 to $1900 depending on cells used.
Have fun Bill Nye
They have meter collars for EV chargers too. Will Prowse can install a battery in minutes but he has everything setup and does it every couple weeks. Sodium Ion will crush LFP for home storage.
"Stick around until the end because I'll be going over whether or not I believe it would be better for you to keep holding out for lower prices or pull the trigger now."
At the end - "2024 is one of the best years to get a backup battery system for your home, however holding out for lower prices is something that I could view as a rational decision."
You don't "go over whether or not you believe that," you quickly justify both. It's basically clickbait. Do better.
I am still waiting for sodium ion batteries for my solar installation , I need 20kWh energy magazine for less than 3000$
There is no over supply yet, it is just suppy increase push the price down, is supply to demand relationship.
lifepo4 280ah cells -2 years ago cost about 150$, year ago cost about 100$ or more - now about 50-60$ - also almost brand new batteries from salvage cars drop signifinacantly - 1-1,5year ago 60-70kWh kia battery cost about 7500-8000$ in my country, now 4500-5000$ - I am wondering IF or WHEN 1kWh will drop to about 10$
The "why" in "reason why" is redundant
cant wait till oil compaines start going belly up
Oh, wait your name says it all!
Thanks for this overview of the solar and battery market in the United States. You have some advantages in the subsidies available to US based consumers in the Inflation reduction act. In New Zealand, we had some incentives for the purchase of Electric Vehicles, but it expired at the end of 2023.
But as you have pointed out the primary driver of uptake of Solar energy storage Batteries is Innovation and market forces. An updated and genuine illustration of supply and demand, as learned in Economics 101 playing out in real time in 2024.
Aren't the meter collars only good for 30 amps? You can't run everything with that.
This is great news, more people will be able to afford them now,
plus people like Will Prowse, have show people how cheap and crapy the low end batters were built.
but those communist chinese corps have stepped up there game. but not all.
some of the better American brands have tried to lower there prices due to the cheap units coming in from china.
but there people like me are priced out of the market. at tidays pricing i would still need $10 grand USD to buy the correct amount and style of battery i need. then the solar, but that would be killed of by a increase in my taxes. ( improvements what the calls it).
You get 30% off on your taxes for everything solar.
Could it be that new tech/differing chemical makeups and competition to oust Li batteries (supply) dominance?
I’m tired of the solar marketing hype. For the money we’re getting a (natural gas generator) installed for home back up. Not a battery
No more wasting precious time adjusting solar panels every hour, that may or may not work because of the weather.
Camping? Sure bring the battery. Otherwise look elsewhere. The technology just isn’t there yet.
Natural gas?
Like piped to your house by a regional provider?
Or propane, like you own a tank and can have propane stored on your property?
Show me some real-world numbers.. not general statements. $18,000 for a 13 kilowatt battery is NOT a low price.
A Google search shows, "In 2021, you'd pay $12,000 for a 13.5 kilowatt Tesla Powerwall, and the cost has since come down a bit to $11,500 for a single unit. " I may be wrong, but that does not look anywhere close to a 40% drop in battery price. I am looking to buy. Please show me I am wrong.
@@IJRPUBLIC In 2021, a Tesla Powerwall 2, along with the additional Tesla firmware necessary to connect and commission the system would have run ≈ $17,500. With the newer Powerwall 3, you will be looking at just under ≈ $11,000. Though, it will vary depending on the market you are in among other factors.
Go to signature solars website and look at their rack mount batteries. 30.7 kwh rack of batteries for $7,443.00.
Well, that is not a real world number. You can buy an LG home eight complete system, which is a 7500 W inverter and 14.4 kWh of usable energy storage for $7200.. I installed everything myself and took the tax credit and my payback period Is 2.8 years.
@@boblatkey7160 Bingo, and that's still pricy. If you built your own 15kwh battery with quality cells from EVE and got one of the all in one inverters like an EG4, you could save another 40% or so.
Some observations from a DIY person. Biden has doubled the tariffs on Chinese products, so I’m figuring this is on solar batteries, panels, inverters.
A lot of the installers have gone bankrupt, leaving their consumers with no way to fix problems that may arrive.
It’s never been easier to DIY your own system, especially if it’s off grid or hybrid. I would stay away from grid tide systems, as when the grid goes down your solar goes down with it.
Also, it’s a bad idea to lease your panels, when you try to sell your house it will be much harder! People don’t want two different payments on a house they buy.
Well, the build America program from Biden has also brought foreigners into America and they are going to build the batteries right here in America and skip the tariffs and provide tons of high paying jobs right in America.
What about salt ion and other new battery tech dropping the price of the older tech?
Also higher levels of adoption.
Battery shipping costs to NZ is still rough, our smaller market doesn't help, we also have cheap ish power & a lowering buy back. So payback period is longer. $0.23 NZD/unit, but you can get deals with lower night rates, free power hours off peak.
For a short term payback a system spec'd for peak usage in the middle of the day, self installed with no batteries makes sense. Or your off grid and it costs to much to get power to site.
As someone who just spent $4000 for an Anker f3800 and home panel… mmm.
Interesting , Thank You . I hope every thing works
Thanks!
Can you please do a video on panel maintenance? Installing panels on the ground makes cleaning them easy, but not all houses have enough yard area for that.
I would, however it is not super complicated. I recommend hiring a local solar panel company to come out 1-2 times a year, usually after spring and summer time to clean the panels. Shouldn't cost more than $150 for the average sized system
Not sure why he is wearing Arc flash gear when main power is cut
I have a Tesla PW3 with the meter collar. Tesla did the install. At the time I paid cash for the system and did not get a 2nd battery. In hindsight, having the second battery would have been the way to go. I think by the end of the year I'll get a second.
Are you in the Bay Area? How long was the install timeline?
@@solarprosteam Sacramento area. It went very fast. I contacted them in late Feb, everything was done by end of May. It would have been done sooner but I had some conflicts with scheduling dates. We got PTO from PGE within 2 weeks of final inspection as well. That was a real surprise since we were told it could take up to two months.
@@kwesty1 Good for you guys. Best of luck with the system!
Battery prices are not falling
Yes, they are, I work for an extremely large battery manufacturer, and we have dropped our prices a number of times and we have a huge market share. And the only reason we have dropped, our prices is because we need to stay competitive in the market. So you're kind of full of it there buddy.
@@boblatkey7160 who do you work for and what batteries?
@@grantbuttenshaw ?? Corporate social media policy! 😂😂🙄🙄
@@boblatkey7160 ok...what batteries?
Wish you pointed out that the tax credit only works if you paid batteries with solar
That’s correct.
Guy is talking about batteries and said that lithium iron batteries are more powerful than lithium phosphate. Intro to batteries 101 states otherwise.
Great summary! Subscribed!
Thanks!
How about sodium batteries? The cost should be lower and the are said to be safer.
It will take a few years for them to ramp up mass production to get anywhere near the prices of LFP cells coming out of China. Look up EVE lifepo cells, they're insanely cheap. Also of note: many of the sodium cells currently on the market from overseas vendors are not actually sodium cells, but LFP cells they're lying about. There are very few sodium cells actually making it onto the market yet, and the feedback on them is that they're clearly a first generation product, and not ready for most people.
@@meikgeik the newest Chinese batteries from CATL seem to be sodium ion aswell.
@@meikgeik also natron seems to have its own niche, in the NAS market.
I looked at the fortress power batteries and they are still about the same price as a year or 2 ago.
Now i know why Eco Flow just lowered their prices for their batteries.
That's a different league, eco-flow is hobby gear.
@@boblatkey7160 hobby gear ? lol thats the first time i heard anyone call it that. I was thinking of getting one for my home
It looks like you forgot to mention Plug&Play home batteries
You appear to have forgotten or be unaware that sodium ion batteries are moving onto the market as ell and giga factories are going to be ramping up in the next few years and will free up a lot of lithium batteries for cars. .
So Solar Battery is just a battery or is it a unit combining a solar panel with a built in battery.
There is no such thing as a "Solar Battery". What I am referring to are high voltage wall-mounted deep-cycle batteries that are engineered to be paired with a Solar PV system. Not to be confused with small portable batteries, car batteries, or 1.5V batteries
This guy keeps using the term "Solar Battery". What is the difference between a "Solar Battery" and a battery? Nothing? Then why are we calling the batteries "Solar batteries"? I am open to correction.
You are correct in that there is no such thing as a "Solar Battery". What I am referring to are AC/DC Coupled wall-mounted deep-cycle batteries that are engineered to be paired with a Solar PV system. Not to be confused with small portable batteries, car batteries, or 1.5V batteries.
Yaaaay, I can save hundres on batteries! (While spending thousands extra on all other consumer goods) thanks uncle Joe!
Project 2025
Harris 💪
LG Home 8 complete system is 7.5 kW inverter with 14.4 kWh useable energy for $7,400.
But that's $500/kWh, for a battery that is getting nearer to $60/kWh wholesale.
@@mark123655 $60 per kilowatt hour? That is an absolute joke! You are totally misinformed! 🙄
One more variable why solar batteries cost has soften and that is the slow down in Electric Vehicle sales in the USA. Plus, the more popular EV choice - Hybrids.
Yes, that ties in with the supply and demand factor for Lithium.
ALL vehicle sales have dropped in the US. EV sales have dropped less in certain categories. The main problem is with the quality of available EV'S in the US.
Falling demand for BEVs
There's no such thing as a solar battery. They are batteries.
dont take it literally, the kids are just saying it instead of the term solar power storage
It also looks like Pennsylvania may become a major source of lithium... fracking waste water brine.
But watch, the batteries made here will be double the Chinese ones.
Sodium batteries are on the way in, and lithium is on the way out.
Years away...
The market generally agrees that by 2030, over 80% of the battery market will still be lithium! 😂😂😂😂
Politicians really want you forget that this is capitalism working properly. If this wasn't a capitalist society, what incentive would there be to make the installation easier? It does cut down jobs, but it allows products to be more affordable for the common man. Everybody focuses on the few major flaws of capitalism and forgets that the vast majority of the time, it really does work just fine.
@@awesomeferret So "it cuts down on jobs and makes things more affordable for the common man" . Therefore as long as you're not the common man who loses his job, everything is fine!
That's your idea of how capitalism is working? Shouldn't it work for everyone who wants to work and is able to work, rather than taking jobs away from some?
@@simonpaine2347 I can't tell if you're arguing with malicious intent or just have really bad reading comprehension skills. I wish I had time to respond, but I don't have time today to respond in detail to someone who starts off by intentionally or unintentionally with bad faith arguments. You know full well the majority of people in the USA are not poor. If you want to have a debate, don't start off with something that a child can debunk. 😂 The "common man" is still lower middle class and you know it.
I hope you grow up someday and stop treating economics like religion.
Have a nice day.
@@awesomeferret All I did was quote your own words back to you and asked if that was how you understood how capitalism is, or should be working.
If you struggle to understand your own words, then we will really struggle to make any headway.
As for you not having time to respond, well I'd suggest that if you haven't got time to backup or explain your assertions, then perhaps don't waste your precious time making comments in the first place.
@@awesomeferret The official poverty rate in 2022 was 11.5 percent, with 37.9 million people in poverty. Neither the rate nor the number in poverty was significantly different from 2021.
@@simonpaine2347 so you'd rather that I ignore you completely? Yeah, I can tell I made a wise decision by not debating with you.
The biggest problem in the USA, also from not using the metric system is not having 220v mains. Everything there is backwards
We use 240 volts, so what's your problem with that? We split it and use 120V from each phase for small appliances and lights, but all large loads are 240vac. Every house has 240VAC mains. There is no issue.
Also, there are two kinds of countries, those who use metric, and those who have sent men to the moon and brought them back safely. Tell me more about your country! 😂
We have 240v in all but the oldest houses. They are used for stoves, dryers, water heaters, AC units, etc.. My EV charger is 240v at 48amps and my house was built in 1956. Not old for Europe but pretty old for the US. I agree with you on the metric system though.
If only these were the biggest problems in the USA…!
Gelion Batteries keep working don't catch fire on a BBQ grill.
Once these are available for sale they will be on my house...
QED
It’s simple, battery are expensive power, solar is way too cheap solar so you can have 15kwh of solar and a mere 28kwh of battery and you are pretty much sufficient for a normal 2adult 2 infants home. If there is no demand, prices are going down.
And what is the cost of these batteries
@@phyllisclayton8320 nowdays around 100$/kwh , I have bought for 55$/kwh but I can’t promise they are the same brand,longevity and quality as the more expensive ones
EG4 batteries x2 28.6kWh for $6,600
Awesome.
Check out Wright's Law, basically a doubling in production reduces costs by 10-15%
Great point.
Explain car prices then.
You have not factored in to Sodium Ion Batterries !! do your Research they have become more comparative Vs Lithium in terms of per KG energy density !!! 270/kg Vs Litium 250 to 300/KG and in few months will be equal !!!
Why don't you do your research! By 2030 the battery market will still be over 80% lithium! Sodium batteries are going to come but they are going to be slow and requires a lot of reworking of inverters and electrical control systems. Just because you read it in popular science magazine, doesn't mean it's gonna happen tomorrow!
I believe the Nevada rare earth mineral mine was sold to the Chinese.
A security issue that would affect a key supply chain in a military crisis, don’t you think?
Regulations will be destroyed by Trump… Nevada’s mine with change the marketplace.
sadly, this turned out to be mostly about a guy's face and his lost dreams of becoming an actor
They need to fall a long way they are extremely overpriced compared to batteries for EV's. Thats before installation. They are something like 7 times more expensive.
Nonsense