Siekon 100Ah Direct Purchase (affiliate link): goaff.pro/tgbigt Be sure to save with "WITHWILL2" Coupon Code 12V batteries I recommend: www.mobile-solarpower.com/lithium-batteries.html 0:00 Quick rant about Lead Acid vs Lithium 1:30 Siekon Intro and Capacity Test 2:24 Teardown! 3:05 Low Temp Test 3:32 Load Testing! Surge and Continuous 8:11 Litime Comparison And Conclusion ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ *Does off-grid solar confuse you?* Check out my DIY friendly website for solar system blueprints and current product recommendations, and so much more! www.mobile-solarpower.com *Join our DIY solar community* #1 largest solar forum on the internet for beginners and professionals alike: www.diysolarforum.com *Check out my Book* Best-selling and beginner-friendly guide to 12V off-grid solar! amzn.to/2Aj4dX4 *My Favorite Online Stores for DIY Solar Products:* *Signature Solar* Offgrid One-Stop-Shop. Best Value 48V LiFePO4, Victron and Offgrid Specific Heat Pumps: www.signaturesolar.com/?ref=h-cvbzfahsek *Current Connected* SOK, Victron, Mr.Cool Heatpumps and High Quality Components. Fantastic customer support: currentconnected.com/?ref=wp *Epoch Batteries* My favorite high-quality 12V battery: www.epochbatteries.com/products/12v-460ah-lifepo4-battery-ip67-heated-bluetooth-victron-comms?rfsn=7352625.50494d *Litime* My favorite 12V budget battery!: www.litime.com/?ref=XBIA62RFcalHns *Watts247* Need international shipping for large batteries and big inverters? Check them out! watts247.com/?wpam_id=3 *Renogy* A classic 12V solar store that has been around for ages! DC to DC Chargers and more! renogy.sjv.io/n1VjXx *Rich Solar* Renogy's biggest competitor! Similar products, but at a better price: richsolar.com/?ref=h-cvbzfahsek *Battery Hookup* Cheap cell deals bit.ly/2mIxSqt 5% off code: diysolar *Contact Information:* I am NOT available for personal solar system consult! If you wish to contact me, this is my direct email: williamprowsediysolar@gmail.com Join the forum at diysolarforum.com/ if you wish to hang out with myself and others and talk about solar
Now you need to start doing check about how well they are sealed. Maybe use some kind of vacuum pump instead of dumping them into water ;) One thing that would be great, is a battery that you could just put along side a lead battery. What I mean by that, is for example, my friend have a sailboat. Her budget is super limited, and her battery will need to be replaced. But she do have a Diesel Engine that the battery need to be able to start. Her system allow 2 battery, and she have a battery selector that allow to select individual battery, or both batteries. I would love to help her out and get her a LifePo4 battery, but I see multiple problem... First the battery selector, can cause issues, as one battery might be low, while the other one full, so switching to Both battery option, then you have the 2 battery having rush current into them... And with the battery you just shown, if there is no protection at all, it would rush at what... 600amp between the batteries ? This doesn't seem to be a problem with her Lead battery. And can I start safely a Diesel engine from these batteries ?... As for me, I do have a Ecoflow Delta 2, and I do have 48volt battery system. It would be great to have a battery like this to supplement my Delta 2 on the cheap, but the max at 12volt would be 166watt I can input into my Delta 2 from the DC IN port at 13volt. So I'm not sure how useful it would be (and maybe that 166watt have a good % lost in conversion as well...). I could use 2 of these batteries in series and get 2kWh... It just suck that there is empty space inside.
Fun Fact : We call people who lived in the past here in Blighty " Luddites" after the hand weavers who rioted and started to smash up the new mechanical weaving looms - for a while the weaving factories were built like forts.
Will, I have to raise the Red Flag here. They are obviously not using High C-Rate LFP cells but just regular Prismatics. Nothing wrong with that, except you exceed the specified C-Rates such as 2C and even 3C discharging. Burst Discharges within spec are OK but not this. It may be prudent to check out the cells specifically, locate that companies spec sheet and take that into consideration. In my opinion, allowing such heavy discharges will have consequences and potentially most unpleasant ones.
Thanks for continuing to do the battery teardowns. I know it seems they have been done to death, but the market and offerings keep changing and it's good to see what's currently on the market instead of taking a gamble.
Ive been using 8, 100 amp 12 volt weize lifepo4 batteries in my van. Im able to run the ac all night and keep my shower water hot and ready for the morning, while running a dorm fridge/freezer. Im so happy I don't have to have a thousand pounds of lead in my van for the same performance. It takes at least 4 times longer to charge a lead acid battery bank, for the equivilant capacity of lifepo4. Im not dying this summer and I am so grateful.
I'm just learning about solar. Why 8 batteries? Could you have gone with fewer batteries at a higher DC voltage (48v) to get the same desired available wattage? Or do you specifically need the 12 volts? Thank you
@@carminec4000 Either way you slice it, he needs the capacity to do that all night. The real question, is how does he recharge it during the day? Alternator, generator, and what proportion is solar? What is the SEER rating of your unit, and what brand/make do you use?
@@carminec4000 no. You need volts, and amps, to make watts. Watt hours are a measure of capacity. If you cut the amount of batteries in half, you get half capacity in the bank. 12 volts was what I had. Higher voltage systems are better.
LFP patents in the US ended in 2021 and 2022 I think. Ever since then every car manufacturer of EVs started using LFP in their battery chemstry. That should tell you all you need to know about where the market is moving.
On the Siekon website their image says 6000+ cycles but that is based off of 0.5C rate at 25 degrees Celsius to 80%DOD. Their 5000 cycle graph is based off of sinilar but 100% DOD. That's why the numbers were different.
"That was so weird! I was not able to get enough load to test this new battery, so I built a Very Small Hadron Collider that encircles my house. Let me get the plug and we'll test it out" - Things Will would say.
Thank you for the review. I'll buy a couple of these. We bought two Battleborn batteries for $1K each, and one died after a little over a year. We contacted Battleborn, as battery was under warranty. Battleborn did NOTHING, except have us check and recheck the battery. We proved the battery was dead and would not charge. Battleborn did NOTHING, NOTHING, NOTHING. I would NOT recommend buying Battleborn because they don't support their product, nor warranty.
My god I paid $620 apiece for two SOK LFPs to put in my truck. They've served me faithfully and I don't regret the purchase at this point but damn, could have saved like $500 on my build
My thoughts throughout this entire video… I really like my SOK, but for my next expansion, I am getting a handful of these or similar well performing low-cost ones.
Well LFP batteries in the car industry in China have reached to 55-60$ per KWh (i would imagine it is without the hardware supporting them, but still) so 229$ is plausible.
New eve cells are now $60-$80 in China. This is insane. Being able to go off grid will become so much easier in the next few years in sunny places. Prices of assembled LFPs will likely drop to around $100 per Kwh soon if not already.
I'm leery at $500 for a 280 AH. You cannot monitor them. They say they have all the features of the top of line BMS. I guess the savings is trusting the BMS and it is nice not to monitor it. I worried about flooded batteries for years. I monitor the inverter and solar controller which is enough.
Been off grid for 25 years running Lead Acid batteries until 3 years ago when my battery bank needed replacing. So I switched over to Lithium and haven't looked back. Lithium (LFP) is a game changer and way out preforms FLA batteries in every way and by miles 👍
Great Review! The listing for these batteries say, "The batteries used in series should be fully charged before connecting them. Disconnect and charge each battery separately every time to avoid power imbalance in the series system." (6th image: Flexible Connection Options). If this is true, then these are not good at all for connecting in series. Disconnecting each battery from a series string for each charge makes this battery only good as a single battery.
I saw on their website a reference to a 200ah model. Couldn't find it there, but checked Amazon and it's there for $399.99. Would be interesting to see you review that one, Will.
Thanks for the tip Will. What's cool is between the time you filmed this and now (an hour after release of the video), these batteries went on sale. F'n A!
Without over current protection actually present and functional, I would put a Class-T fuse in series with that battery. Too much risk of melting insulation and starting a fire, if there was an internal failure...
@@tyronetrump1612 But in this case it could well be your single line of defense against overcurrent, and we don't know how much or what will happen .... Will the BMS catch fire with a direct short instead of shutting off the output? I would personally be hesitant to promote this battery until the issue is fully understood and fixed.
Over current protection seems like an important safety feature. Why is Will so casual about it missing? Is the external fuse the ‘real protection’ in such a system or is this a belt and suspenders strategy where it is so important that redundant strategies make sense and this is potentially dangerous for a more complex mobile system.
@@mattmayfield3520 MOSFETs commonly fail dead shorted. Relying on one as the overall protection in a circuit is less than ideal. The correct fuse will fail open.
IMO no over current protection is way worse than tripping to soon. Nothing more exciting than when your cables become a welder when you don't expect it.
A smart person can limit how much power they draw........use enough batteries for your inverter and it should trip the low voltage protection from draining the battery and not have a problem. Fuses are a good idea from the other person responding. Buy a more expensive battery and it may not be something you have to think about......your choice. Yes, it would be better if they performed as advertised, but it is cheap.
This is Awesome!! The guys over a Camping World have all kinds of Off Road custom built 4x4 RV's come in and i'm one of them. Today they just told me to get LiFePO4 batteries was recommended for my Off-Road E450 adventure 4x4 RV because that heat wave in Oregon last week in July/2024 @ 105deg Killed all are Marine deep cycle batteries. I'm taking the 4 out and putting 8 of the LiFePO4 batteries back in. Thank you for this Awesome Review Video. It just helped me a lot.
I'm having the same problem. Mine are all dead again after 4 years and that heat wave didn't help. I just found them on line, but I only have 2. I think getting 4 would be the way to go. Unbelievable battery that it can run a car lift and a air compressor. I love this channel.
The specs for the battery on Siekon's website are 100A continuous charge/discharge and 300A surge - I wonder if they changed that after your video was made.
Thanks again for the great review. I have not built a solar system yet and am not very knowledgeable about electricity/power management systems. But I need to learn as I build our off-grid home on our land. Your videos make me feel more confident that I can build my own off-grid solar system. Thank you for all the videos and guidance.
Hi Will, I live in Arizona. I'm very interested in the thermal testing, especially in your cargo trailer. Just like in Las Vegas, heat is an issue, here in the desert. So, maybe do a full and comprehensive video on thermal effects and testing. Maybe, include segments from previous videos that touched on the subject. Love your videos!
@@my_channel_44 ; I definitely plan to install the battery in-cabin, but in Arizona, if cooling fails or is shut off, temps in a trailer can reach 140F.
Wow, 2 years ago I scratch built a 12v 200ah with all the bells and whistles. Cost was around $800. Had to install a 5amp active balancer (new version) Battery has been working pretty much flawlessly -15° - 95° for 2+ years. Enjoyed learning and building one, but why build one from scratch now? Thanks Will, with a mention to Andy @ Off Grid Garage.
2 1/2 years ago I built a 300ah 12 volt lithium battery and it cost $750. At that time, I felt as though it was a smoking deal. My battery is still going strong as well having used it every day since it was built. But it is crazy how much prices have come down in such a short period of time!
A month ago, I bought a heated 200ah 12v from Li Time for $720 plus tax in comnifornia. A year or so ago, I considered building my own but like others said, it was a no brainer to spend the money and have something ready to go for my travel trailer. The finished package is better than if I had done the DIY route and tried to not go heater or added my own heaters.
Decent for the price for sure but why do they keep putting them in the old size box? They could have used a much smaller box. Most people have limited space for multiple batteries. Smaller package would work so much better in campervans.
You ain't seen nothing yet. The cost of cells in China has plummeted over the last 6 months. LFP is down to $56/Kw now. In a year or so from now I bet we see 5kw rack battery prices less than $800
Hey Will, I was able to order 2 batteries last month off Amazon for $134.99 per battery. They were 12v 100Ah LiFePo4 batteries with 100A bms. I paid $288 for both total shipped to my home. Seller took availability down shortly after on the listing 😂.
Without your battery teardowns, we the consumer would be absolutely screwed. Lithium batteries wouldn’t have been adopted so quickly, because it would be too much of a gamble for most of us. I’d buy these based on your results! Thanks!
I put a lithium battery in my zero turn 2 years ago and have not had to even look at it. I love that thing. I'm going to get one for my Harley as well.
The limitations for LFP are being overcome 👉 low temp, 1C charge rates and discharge rates and capacity. This battery "does not have over-current protection" which is a red flag, but setting low voltage cutout is a workaround. Repeated high discharge will have an impact on reliability, but with perhaps a BMS software change, this issue is easily mitigated. Another simple solution is to buy 2 or 4 and run them on a 24 or 48V system, which then reduces peak current output loading. Great review Will, I hope you can do a deeper dive on BMS programming.
Don't need all that for protection. Any electrician can tell you that an "overcurrent protection device" is usually in the form of the correct Amp and Voltage rated fuse or breaker. Just get a DC rated breaker that is lower than the maximum current one wants to see. Done deal. LOL
Will, thanks for your great reviews. It's great that you check out these affordable batteries giving us all a reference for comparing the products available today.
Hook a cheap inverter to it and it can run a fridge, furnace fan and TV plus electronics if power goes out. Look at Texas now. There is no need anymore to be without. It won't run your AC now but maybe someday.
I use lead acid batteries in cold climate of the rocky mountains during hunting season. The FAA and other companies use them for communication/NAV systems on high and cold weather sites because they do not heat the buildings in winter. C&D 2.5 volt cells which we used a total of 48-52 volt systems, are able to run the NAV systems when lines go down for up to a week. Also C&D's last 25 years +. I Like LiFePo4 batteries but lead acids still have a place. The solar charger I have has a conditioning cycle that helps the batteries last longer in my RV.
Love your show I have three off grid dwellings First one still has AGM that have been working well for about 8 years . Second one which is my main dwelling has 4 Relion 300ah in series to give me a 48v system. I pain $3000 each for those batteries 6 years ago. Still going strong, but $12000 for 4 batteries.😞 My third is an rv with Li Time i bought at you recommendation. Great battery and good customer service . So good to see them go down in price! Very gappy to find your channel a couple years ago. Thank you SO much for your channel!
Why aren't they? Like with all the BMS protection why is an alternator an issue? I have a small one on my garden tractor that is used less than one time a week. I have a solar panel charging it all the time, and the starter/generator of the tractor hasn't had any negative effects over the past 2 years. I still don't understand why a car is alternator would be bad for it if the BMS could protect it from overcharging.
My Siekon 12v 100 Ah was just delivered! I’m going to use it to supplement the LiFePO4 I built for my camper. This will give me a total of 400 Ah. We’ll see how it holds up.
The price isn’t bad but I just bought a 100ah for $169, so… not to be argumentative but maybe it’s time to go BIGGER! Please test the 260ah batteries. Ive been looking at one for $399.99 = $.12/wh
with all the new AIO hitting the market, combined with these Batteries, plus their low cost, weight and high capacity. Looks like its time for a new 24v/48v handcart portable POWER STATION Build!!!!
I have to hand it to you Will you are good at what you do . If not for tearing into these batteries we would not know what kind of build quality is going into them. kudos to you keep up the good work.
Just ordered mine to replace a marine LA 12v for our small camping trailer. Ships 7/31/24. Thanks Will for sharing and your fantastic channel!! Wish you were near San Diego so I could get your help getting some of our power from the sunshine. Cheers
Thank Will. With all the influencers you have the most validity. Been following you for years. Thanks for testing this battery out. Been looking online and Renogy batteries. Need to get 2 for my RV trailer.
Watching the vid and gradually, Will's voice kind of fades into the background as my mind slowly ramps up its' concentration on that jumble of screwdrivers all over the place in the background. I'm mentally willing Will to reach back and begin organizing those things. Is there something wrong with me?
I am building an off grid property just 1 hour outside of Las Vegas on the north end of the town of Pahrump. I am using Lead Acid for my battery bank currently. In the future I do want to add a lithium bank as cost was the factor. But with declining prices we can start entertaining buying 4 of these at a time. Currently I have been adding 4 NAPA HD Lead Acid batteries at a time for 48v on each series. Currently running 3 banks in parallel. Running AC unit, refrigerator and security equipment 24/7. Eventually this system will be expanded to also power our house and shop.
How soon we forget Chins! While their current price is $249 on Amazon, it has sold for less than $200, as low as $186, several times over recent months. And the Weize is currently $229 at Amazon. Fascinating this Siekon has so much current capacity. Although, not sure most folks are powering their car lifts with these batteries. ;-)
The Roy pow batteries that you liked is $199 on Amazon right now so I got a couple of those. But I agree I think lead for an aux battery is pretty much dead at this point.
Crazy that every single 5 star review on Amazon for these was in turn for a free product. There are more than 50. And the one bad review is the guy who didn’t get one for free. All they gotta do is make a handful of good ones, give ‘em out then slowly scale back the quality. Make sure do give all the UA-camrs the best example they can muster. We are the product.
I have been using solar systems for about ten years. Components have been very reliable. I can't say the same about my deep cycle lead acid batteries. I even tried 6 volt golf cart batteries. They were no better. And, yes, I never discharged my batteries below 50 percent. I eventually went to sealed and even AGM batteries. I got tired of having to add water. I have two different systems in the house. I was seriously considering doing away with one of the systems when the two 200AH batteries died. After a lot of thought I decided to try a lithium battery. I had to buy a charger suitable for lithium batteries. I bought one 200AH lithium batteries and was pleased to see that it easily replaced the two lead acid batteries, I now will NEVER buy another lead acid battery. It is amazing and has made my solar system totally trouble free and the life of this battery should be much longer.
Will, please do a video on charging LifPo with a lead-acid charger when the LifPo has a BMI. My RV mechanic said I have to change out my charger if I go to LifPo. I have heard that with a BMI any charger will do.
The reason to change out a charger for LiFePO4 batteries is that the charger won't get the Voltage high enough. If you have a solar system installed with a LiFePO4 MPPT solar controller, and can get enough sun during the day, that would cover it. All of these kinds of batteries seem to have a passive balancing mode, but one needs to get the battery (bank) up to the highest recommended charging Voltage in order for that to work, which is why chargers for lead-acid don't work very well. If your battery charger is also a Converter, you may need to change it out.
These batteries all look the same anymore really. The cycle numbers are pretty pointless. They are all over the place even within the same companies, exactly as you pointed out. Additionally, pretty much nobody gives the conditions for which those ratings apply - such as 5000 cycles at a 1C charge/discharge to 80% state of health. It's silly, they'll keep one-upping one another by using lower discharge rates to get higher numbers.
Keep in mind someone may steel them. You are right but as prices drop we can abuse them and replace them. What about 10 year old solar panels? Replace, add more, when do we upgrade considering they are not recycling them.
i am watching you from Egypt and i wanna tell you the price of this battery here is about 500$-1000$ that is why most of ppl here buy lead acid battery
We're about to go to AGM. We live on a boat and it's becoming very challenging to keep insurance companies happy with lithium. Hopefully that will change... Thanks for your fantastic videos 👍👍
@@Tumbleweed5150 all batteries can do a thermal runaway including lithium iron phosphate. That is pure hype and BS put out by the manufacturers. There are many scientific papers that show a lithium iron phosphate battery doing a thermal runaway.
I know it's difficult to find someone with a capacity for understanding/a brain in the insurance business but find one, sit them down, and show them the difference between lithium ion and lithium iron phosphate. They are classing lithium iron phosphate as lithium ion and they are in totally separate realms with regard to fire risk.
The sodium batteries are in the pipeline. Expect Li to drop in price even more when sodium starts hitting the retail market. It will be an interesting time watching the battle.
I appreciate your reviews and was waiting/hoping you would review this battery, thank you! My comments are related to their protection claims, I have always thought low temp had 2 separate settings, low temp charging (around 32 F or 0 C) and low temp discharge (around 0 F or -15 C) only a temp controlled test would be able to properly evaluate and while dry ice or compressed air does activate the probe, we do not know at what temp and their website only showed, what I consider low temp discharge of 0 F, so maybe this would get damaged by trying to charge below freezing? That, with what you found on over current worries me. I have bought many of the Redodo brands and they show both low temp charge and low temp discharge, although I have never properly tested them and their prices are comparable. Keep up the great work as you are the standard I look to for accuracy.
I'll never understand why you'd use LA in an RV at what the last few years of LIPO4 competition has done. You can buy 3-4 of these for one Battle Born.
Siekon 100Ah Direct Purchase (affiliate link): goaff.pro/tgbigt
Be sure to save with "WITHWILL2" Coupon Code
12V batteries I recommend: www.mobile-solarpower.com/lithium-batteries.html
0:00 Quick rant about Lead Acid vs Lithium
1:30 Siekon Intro and Capacity Test
2:24 Teardown!
3:05 Low Temp Test
3:32 Load Testing! Surge and Continuous
8:11 Litime Comparison And Conclusion
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
*Does off-grid solar confuse you?*
Check out my DIY friendly website for solar system blueprints and current product recommendations, and so much more!
www.mobile-solarpower.com
*Join our DIY solar community*
#1 largest solar forum on the internet for beginners and professionals alike:
www.diysolarforum.com
*Check out my Book*
Best-selling and beginner-friendly guide to 12V off-grid solar!
amzn.to/2Aj4dX4
*My Favorite Online Stores for DIY Solar Products:*
*Signature Solar*
Offgrid One-Stop-Shop. Best Value 48V LiFePO4, Victron and Offgrid Specific Heat Pumps:
www.signaturesolar.com/?ref=h-cvbzfahsek
*Current Connected*
SOK, Victron, Mr.Cool Heatpumps and High Quality Components. Fantastic customer support:
currentconnected.com/?ref=wp
*Epoch Batteries*
My favorite high-quality 12V battery:
www.epochbatteries.com/products/12v-460ah-lifepo4-battery-ip67-heated-bluetooth-victron-comms?rfsn=7352625.50494d
*Litime*
My favorite 12V budget battery!:
www.litime.com/?ref=XBIA62RFcalHns
*Watts247*
Need international shipping for large batteries and big inverters? Check them out!
watts247.com/?wpam_id=3
*Renogy*
A classic 12V solar store that has been around for ages! DC to DC Chargers and more!
renogy.sjv.io/n1VjXx
*Rich Solar*
Renogy's biggest competitor! Similar products, but at a better price:
richsolar.com/?ref=h-cvbzfahsek
*Battery Hookup*
Cheap cell deals
bit.ly/2mIxSqt
5% off code: diysolar
*Contact Information:*
I am NOT available for personal solar system consult! If you wish to contact me, this is my direct email: williamprowsediysolar@gmail.com
Join the forum at diysolarforum.com/ if you wish to hang out with myself and others and talk about solar
Man, these are badass. 2 x 600cca's paralleled will start 99% of regular trucks. They typically have room for two batteries.
Now you need to start doing check about how well they are sealed. Maybe use some kind of vacuum pump instead of dumping them into water ;)
One thing that would be great, is a battery that you could just put along side a lead battery. What I mean by that, is for example, my friend have a sailboat. Her budget is super limited, and her battery will need to be replaced. But she do have a Diesel Engine that the battery need to be able to start. Her system allow 2 battery, and she have a battery selector that allow to select individual battery, or both batteries. I would love to help her out and get her a LifePo4 battery, but I see multiple problem... First the battery selector, can cause issues, as one battery might be low, while the other one full, so switching to Both battery option, then you have the 2 battery having rush current into them... And with the battery you just shown, if there is no protection at all, it would rush at what... 600amp between the batteries ? This doesn't seem to be a problem with her Lead battery. And can I start safely a Diesel engine from these batteries ?...
As for me, I do have a Ecoflow Delta 2, and I do have 48volt battery system. It would be great to have a battery like this to supplement my Delta 2 on the cheap, but the max at 12volt would be 166watt I can input into my Delta 2 from the DC IN port at 13volt. So I'm not sure how useful it would be (and maybe that 166watt have a good % lost in conversion as well...). I could use 2 of these batteries in series and get 2kWh... It just suck that there is empty space inside.
Fun Fact : We call people who lived in the past here in Blighty " Luddites" after the hand weavers who rioted and started to smash up the new mechanical weaving looms - for a while the weaving factories were built like forts.
did you happen to do any temp readings while the case was still on. i am wondering if the temp sensors would have shut down if the case is left on
Will, I have to raise the Red Flag here.
They are obviously not using High C-Rate LFP cells but just regular Prismatics. Nothing wrong with that, except you exceed the specified C-Rates such as 2C and even 3C discharging. Burst Discharges within spec are OK but not this.
It may be prudent to check out the cells specifically, locate that companies spec sheet and take that into consideration. In my opinion, allowing such heavy discharges will have consequences and potentially most unpleasant ones.
Can I just take a second to thank you for not using those stupid sensationalist youtube thumbnails that all creators do
Omg yes!
THIS!
Thanks for continuing to do the battery teardowns. I know it seems they have been done to death, but the market and offerings keep changing and it's good to see what's currently on the market instead of taking a gamble.
Ive been using 8, 100 amp 12 volt weize lifepo4 batteries in my van. Im able to run the ac all night and keep my shower water hot and ready for the morning, while running a dorm fridge/freezer. Im so happy I don't have to have a thousand pounds of lead in my van for the same performance. It takes at least 4 times longer to charge a lead acid battery bank, for the equivilant capacity of lifepo4.
Im not dying this summer and I am so grateful.
I'm just learning about solar. Why 8 batteries? Could you have gone with fewer batteries at a higher DC voltage (48v) to get the same desired available wattage? Or do you specifically need the 12 volts?
Thank you
@@carminec4000 Either way you slice it, he needs the capacity to do that all night. The real question, is how does he recharge it during the day? Alternator, generator, and what proportion is solar?
What is the SEER rating of your unit, and what brand/make do you use?
Yes, what are you using for an AC unit?
Lmk how winter goes
@@carminec4000 no. You need volts, and amps, to make watts. Watt hours are a measure of capacity. If you cut the amount of batteries in half, you get half capacity in the bank.
12 volts was what I had. Higher voltage systems are better.
I don't follow solar or batteries, but I check out Will every once in awhile to boost my hope in humanity.
LFP patents in the US ended in 2021 and 2022 I think. Ever since then every car manufacturer of EVs started using LFP in their battery chemstry. That should tell you all you need to know about where the market is moving.
Same here! 😂
You don't follow... like you burn gas and coal hoping others go green or what?
Will is great! He gets excited when something fails and even MORE excited when it exceeds expectations!
On the Siekon website their image says 6000+ cycles but that is based off of 0.5C rate at 25 degrees Celsius to 80%DOD. Their 5000 cycle graph is based off of sinilar but 100% DOD. That's why the numbers were different.
Thank you good call
"That was so weird! I was not able to get enough load to test this new battery, so I built a Very Small Hadron Collider that encircles my house. Let me get the plug and we'll test it out" - Things Will would say.
Will is against Hadron Colliders...
Thank you for the review. I'll buy a couple of these. We bought two Battleborn batteries for $1K each, and one died after a little over a year. We contacted Battleborn, as battery was under warranty. Battleborn did NOTHING, except have us check and recheck the battery. We proved the battery was dead and would not charge. Battleborn did NOTHING, NOTHING, NOTHING. I would NOT recommend buying Battleborn because they don't support their product, nor warranty.
Please, post a review of the Siekon batteries to Will's forum.
I bought two big Battleborn batteries (270 ah each). Very expensive. Connected two in series, keep having balancing issues. I regret my purchase.
@@pearlydeer4555 ; Do you think it's that the batteries need updating to current standards, your batteries were bad production, or what?
Battleborn has the audacity to hold their prices where they are AND offer that level of customer service
@@robbehr8806 Not sure what the issue is. This is the third year using these with the 24 volt Growatt. Had balancing issues in the first 6 months.
These videos are exactly what DIY solar people need. Well done, and thanks!
My god I paid $620 apiece for two SOK LFPs to put in my truck. They've served me faithfully and I don't regret the purchase at this point but damn, could have saved like $500 on my build
My thoughts throughout this entire video… I really like my SOK, but for my next expansion, I am getting a handful of these or similar well performing low-cost ones.
Thats why im still waiting with buying a ev, the technology is getting so good so fast and the price drops all the time,
@@tomashubelbauer yeah I like serviceability, that's all I want really is to be able to swap cells out and rebalance
Well LFP batteries in the car industry in China have reached to 55-60$ per KWh (i would imagine it is without the hardware supporting them, but still) so 229$ is plausible.
@@Max_Janszen You don’t want to know how much I paid for 8mb of RAM in the early 90s
Nice to see cheaper batteries that don't cheap out on a low current BMS that limits the output.
Yep. Nice BMS, useful with bad/no over current protection like lead acids are.. could hurt itself though
i binged watched his videos yesterday,, i think i got 35 videos watched so far..
been fallowing him for awhile, The best reviewer ive found.....
Welcome 🎉
Will is the best
Agreed The best reveiwer
sheldons doppleganger is a sharp guy on these batteries and charging system!!
Yeah but he doesn’t wear a lab coat and gloves.
Love your enthusiasm Will. Really makes your videos fun to watch!
New eve cells are now $60-$80 in China. This is insane. Being able to go off grid will become so much easier in the next few years in sunny places. Prices of assembled LFPs will likely drop to around $100 per Kwh soon if not already.
You can already find them at that price at Battery Hookup.
I'm leery at $500 for a 280 AH. You cannot monitor them. They say they have all the features of the top of line BMS. I guess the savings is trusting the BMS and it is nice not to monitor it. I worried about flooded batteries for years. I monitor the inverter and solar controller which is enough.
With current $25 coupon and Will’s code, I ordered two on the Big A for $407.38 before tax.
Been off grid for 25 years running Lead Acid batteries until 3 years ago when my battery bank needed replacing. So I switched over to Lithium and haven't looked back. Lithium (LFP) is a game changer and way out preforms FLA batteries in every way and by miles 👍
Were you able to use your same inverter or did you have to replace it as well?
Great Review! The listing for these batteries say, "The batteries used in series should be fully charged before connecting them. Disconnect and charge each battery separately every time to avoid power imbalance in the series system." (6th image: Flexible Connection Options).
If this is true, then these are not good at all for connecting in series. Disconnecting each battery from a series string for each charge makes this battery only good as a single battery.
I saw on their website a reference to a 200ah model. Couldn't find it there, but checked Amazon and it's there for $399.99. Would be interesting to see you review that one, Will.
Thanks for the tip Will. What's cool is between the time you filmed this and now (an hour after release of the video), these batteries went on sale. F'n A!
Without over current protection actually present and functional, I would put a Class-T fuse in series with that battery. Too much risk of melting insulation and starting a fire, if there was an internal failure...
There should be a class T used regardless of battery technology
@@tyronetrump1612 But in this case it could well be your single line of defense against overcurrent, and we don't know how much or what will happen .... Will the BMS catch fire with a direct short instead of shutting off the output? I would personally be hesitant to promote this battery until the issue is fully understood and fixed.
Over current protection seems like an important safety feature. Why is Will so casual about it missing? Is the external fuse the ‘real protection’ in such a system or is this a belt and suspenders strategy where it is so important that redundant strategies make sense and this is potentially dangerous for a more complex mobile system.
@@mattmayfield3520 MOSFETs commonly fail dead shorted. Relying on one as the overall protection in a circuit is less than ideal. The correct fuse will fail open.
Thanks Will! Keep at it, there's a lot of new tech changes coming and the prices are going to keep falling too!
Amazon has $25 plus Wills code. Got for 207 with NY state tax
$209 with TN tax and Promo code 👍🏻
$190 on their site.
@@GimiH1 OMG figures
@@GimiH1yep, free shipping and no sales tax... I picked up two.
Official website now shows $240 - 6% will code
Can’t wait to put this in my kids power wheels 🛻
IMO no over current protection is way worse than tripping to soon. Nothing more exciting than when your cables become a welder when you don't expect it.
Put a fuse in line!
A smart person can limit how much power they draw........use enough batteries for your inverter and it should trip the low voltage protection from draining the battery and not have a problem. Fuses are a good idea from the other person responding. Buy a more expensive battery and it may not be something you have to think about......your choice. Yes, it would be better if they performed as advertised, but it is cheap.
This is Awesome!!
The guys over a Camping World have all kinds of Off Road custom built 4x4 RV's come in and i'm one of them. Today they just told me to get LiFePO4 batteries was recommended for my Off-Road E450 adventure 4x4 RV because that heat wave in Oregon last week in July/2024 @ 105deg Killed all are Marine deep cycle batteries. I'm taking the 4 out and putting 8 of the LiFePO4 batteries back in. Thank you for this Awesome Review Video. It just helped me a lot.
I'm having the same problem. Mine are all dead again after 4 years and that heat wave didn't help. I just found them on line, but I only have 2. I think getting 4 would be the way to go. Unbelievable battery that it can run a car lift and a air compressor. I love this channel.
I thank you so much for teaching me how to get my sailboat totally solar powered with 3 days reserve
The specs for the battery on Siekon's website are 100A continuous charge/discharge and 300A surge - I wonder if they changed that after your video was made.
Sold. Couldn't wait for Prime day chance on beating todays price, plus 25 more off.
I love it when you Geek out over this subject. Props!
The overcurrent protection is when something melts. XD
and every wire is a fuse!
@@ahaveland We would use the term, Linear Activated Fuse
Every time you get blown away by how well something works that's probably not supposed to, all I see are exec's doing backflips😊.
Thanks again for the great review. I have not built a solar system yet and am not very knowledgeable about electricity/power management systems. But I need to learn as I build our off-grid home on our land. Your videos make me feel more confident that I can build my own off-grid solar system. Thank you for all the videos and guidance.
Get his book aswell, it's a great reference for the bookshelf
Hi Will, I live in Arizona. I'm very interested in the thermal testing, especially in your cargo trailer. Just like in Las Vegas, heat is an issue, here in the desert. So, maybe do a full and comprehensive video on thermal effects and testing. Maybe, include segments from previous videos that touched on the subject. Love your videos!
@@robbehr8806 Your LFPo's should be in-cabin for thermal reasons. Why, do you put them in an uninsulated basement?
@@my_channel_44 ; I definitely plan to install the battery in-cabin, but in Arizona, if cooling fails or is shut off, temps in a trailer can reach 140F.
@@robbehr8806 Then design a system where that's not going to happen.
Wow, 2 years ago I scratch built a 12v 200ah with all the bells and whistles. Cost was around $800. Had to install a 5amp active balancer (new version) Battery has been working pretty much flawlessly -15° - 95° for 2+ years. Enjoyed learning and building one, but why build one from scratch now? Thanks Will, with a mention to Andy @ Off Grid Garage.
Because it is still technically cheaper to diy. He has a few videos about this. At these prices, i wouldn't.
2 1/2 years ago I built a 300ah 12 volt lithium battery and it cost $750. At that time, I felt as though it was a smoking deal. My battery is still going strong as well having used it every day since it was built. But it is crazy how much prices have come down in such a short period of time!
@@lightitrun5209 5 amp? What kind?
A month ago, I bought a heated 200ah 12v from Li Time for $720 plus tax in comnifornia. A year or so ago, I considered building my own but like others said, it was a no brainer to spend the money and have something ready to go for my travel trailer. The finished package is better than if I had done the DIY route and tried to not go heater or added my own heaters.
Nice, prices did drop a lot. And I haven't come across people saying that quality has gone down.
Great stuff as usual. You are the holy grail when it comes to learning me some solid solar solutions. Love your enthusiasm!
Are you going to be testing the Sodium ion batteries
Decent for the price for sure but why do they keep putting them in the old size box? They could have used a much smaller box. Most people have limited space for multiple batteries. Smaller package would work so much better in campervans.
Yeah, I was wondering, why so much empty space in there?
Probably because they produce a 120ah version and using the same box keeps costs down.
@@rogerhargreaves2272 Maybe but it looks like it could hold close to 200ah.
@@dfwvtxman quite possibly. 😃👍
You ain't seen nothing yet. The cost of cells in China has plummeted over the last 6 months. LFP is down to $56/Kw now. In a year or so from now I bet we see 5kw rack battery prices less than $800
Hey Will, I was able to order 2 batteries last month off Amazon for $134.99 per battery. They were 12v 100Ah LiFePo4 batteries with 100A bms. I paid $288 for both total shipped to my home. Seller took availability down shortly after on the listing 😂.
Hello! Will, thanks for all of your fine work! Regards
Without your battery teardowns, we the consumer would be absolutely screwed. Lithium batteries wouldn’t have been adopted so quickly, because it would be too much of a gamble for most of us. I’d buy these based on your results! Thanks!
Did they send you the battery or did you get one off the shelf?
I put a lithium battery in my zero turn 2 years ago and have not had to even look at it. I love that thing. I'm going to get one for my Harley as well.
What battery did you buy? Does the zero turn recharge it?
@@raywmontgomery NOCO Lithium NLP14, and yes the mower charges it
Get rid of the foam, use a smaller case, call it a mini and charge more 👍
That's exactly what Li-Time did. I got the ones I have on sale for $250 each, but they've gone back up to over $300, I think.
Have you made any DIY batteries lately? Have the prices of individual cells came down enough yet to justify a DYI battery for 12v or 48v systems?
Hey will. Always enjoy your videos especially how you really get into it You're so awesome.
Now do the HQST that's $185! Thanks for all the fun!
The limitations for LFP are being overcome 👉 low temp, 1C charge rates and discharge rates and capacity. This battery "does not have over-current protection" which is a red flag, but setting low voltage cutout is a workaround. Repeated high discharge will have an impact on reliability, but with perhaps a BMS software change, this issue is easily mitigated. Another simple solution is to buy 2 or 4 and run them on a 24 or 48V system, which then reduces peak current output loading. Great review Will, I hope you can do a deeper dive on BMS programming.
Don't need all that for protection. Any electrician can tell you that an "overcurrent protection device" is usually in the form of the correct Amp and Voltage rated fuse or breaker. Just get a DC rated breaker that is lower than the maximum current one wants to see. Done deal. LOL
I second that. Electrician here... In-line fuse or breaker for my system.@@Tumbleweed5150
Do I understand that the lack of over current protection could be solved with an appropriately rated circuit breaker at the feed point.
Yes
👍
That was awesome! Thank you so much!
You do a great job. I've been watching you for quite some time now
Thanks. I ordered 3 of these for my RV. I will Install them next week and we will see how they do.
$190 on the Siekon website!
I just checked, didn't see any for 190.
$229 now on website. Gone off Amazon.
Sold out..good job guys
THANK YOU WILL!! I don't have the budget for the fancy stuff this is hopeful!
Will, thanks for your great reviews. It's great that you check out these affordable batteries giving us all a reference for comparing the products available today.
$190 with free shipping is crazy! I wish i had a use for one
Where are you seeing $190? I can't find that. Also Amazon limited to only 1
@marcarcher5426 on their website. I bought one for a shop battery to run my winch and random tests with. We will see if they actually ship
It's on the website
Hook a cheap inverter to it and it can run a fridge, furnace fan and TV plus electronics if power goes out. Look at Texas now. There is no need anymore to be without. It won't run your AC now but maybe someday.
These batteries would be good for a self build rv with ac unit. Like a window unit. No soft start needed.
I use lead acid batteries in cold climate of the rocky mountains during hunting season. The FAA and other companies use them for communication/NAV systems on high and cold weather sites because they do not heat the buildings in winter. C&D 2.5 volt cells which we used a total of 48-52 volt systems, are able to run the NAV systems when lines go down for up to a week. Also C&D's last 25 years +. I Like LiFePo4 batteries but lead acids still have a place. The solar charger I have has a conditioning cycle that helps the batteries last longer in my RV.
Love your show
I have three off grid dwellings
First one still has AGM that have been working well for about 8 years . Second one which is my main dwelling has 4 Relion 300ah in series to give me a 48v system. I pain $3000 each for those batteries 6 years ago. Still going strong, but $12000 for 4 batteries.😞
My third is an rv with Li Time i bought at you recommendation. Great battery and good customer service . So good to see them go down in price! Very gappy to find your channel a couple years ago.
Thank you SO much for your channel!
when these can go under the hood it will change the game forever
Dakota Lithium.
Epoch batteries is making a 12v lithium cranking battery. It's around 600 last time I checked.
Why aren't they? Like with all the BMS protection why is an alternator an issue? I have a small one on my garden tractor that is used less than one time a week. I have a solar panel charging it all the time, and the starter/generator of the tractor hasn't had any negative effects over the past 2 years. I still don't understand why a car is alternator would be bad for it if the BMS could protect it from overcharging.
@Trevathecleva82 oh that thing is sick. $700 is rough but it'll probably outlast the car you put it in.
Yeah, I've been using a motorcycle LFP battery in my car to save weight for a while now. Some cheap Amazon brand that has it's own BMS.
Wow! That looks like it is a good battery.
Nice enthusiasm Will
Always love your battery tear downs! Passing tests is not boring!
Really want a 48V of this for cheap!
Great video be safe everyone
These look like they would be good in a golf cart application.
My Siekon 12v 100 Ah was just delivered! I’m going to use it to supplement the LiFePO4 I built for my camper. This will give me a total of 400 Ah.
We’ll see how it holds up.
The price isn’t bad but I just bought a 100ah for $169, so… not to be argumentative but maybe it’s time to go BIGGER!
Please test the 260ah batteries. Ive been looking at one for $399.99 = $.12/wh
Whose battery at that price? Can you post a link?
For which one, 260 or 100?
@@auttiman5591 100Ah. Thank you.
with all the new AIO hitting the market, combined with these Batteries, plus their low cost, weight and high capacity. Looks like its time for a new 24v/48v handcart portable POWER STATION Build!!!!
I have to hand it to you Will you are good at what you do . If not for tearing into these batteries we would not know what kind of build quality is going into them. kudos to you keep up the good work.
Just ordered mine to replace a marine LA 12v for our small camping trailer. Ships 7/31/24. Thanks Will for sharing and your fantastic channel!! Wish you were near San Diego so I could get your help getting some of our power from the sunshine. Cheers
It would scare the daylights out of me to do these same tests on lead acid chemistry!!
Yes lithium are great for most applications. I still prefer agm batteries for high amp situations like Rv stabilizer jacks
li time is making a clone of dakota lithium with a 500ah surge capacity. Yeah, it's not a DH (yet) 😂
Have you measured the current draw on your stabilizer jack? Seems the motor would not come close to drawing what an LFP battery could deliver.
Thank Will.
With all the influencers you have the most validity. Been following you for years.
Thanks for testing this battery out. Been looking online and Renogy batteries. Need to get 2 for my RV trailer.
I wasn’t ready for a battery switch but your review popped up - I watched it - and I learned something- thanks for posting this great review 🍻
Actually the Amazon page has a $25 coupon!! So it’s only $204!
The $25 coupon seems to be gone...
Watching the vid and gradually, Will's voice kind of fades into the background as my mind slowly ramps up its' concentration on that jumble of screwdrivers all over the place in the background. I'm mentally willing Will to reach back and begin organizing those things. Is there something wrong with me?
🤣🤣🤣
Ditto - that is, until I look at MY workbench🤪
I am building an off grid property just 1 hour outside of Las Vegas on the north end of the town of Pahrump. I am using Lead Acid for my battery bank currently. In the future I do want to add a lithium bank as cost was the factor. But with declining prices we can start entertaining buying 4 of these at a time.
Currently I have been adding 4 NAPA HD Lead Acid batteries at a time for 48v on each series. Currently running 3 banks in parallel. Running AC unit, refrigerator and security equipment 24/7.
Eventually this system will be expanded to also power our house and shop.
How soon we forget Chins! While their current price is $249 on Amazon, it has sold for less than $200, as low as $186, several times over recent months.
And the Weize is currently $229 at Amazon.
Fascinating this Siekon has so much current capacity. Although, not sure most folks are powering their car lifts with these batteries. ;-)
Video came just a days after I ordered 4S JBD Smart BMS and EVE 105Ah Cells.
Wonder if it can be used for car batteries, what modifications would be required? Tesla now uses lithium low voltage battery instead of lead acid.
Might work for an electric car, but not to start an ICE engine.
The Roy pow batteries that you liked is $199 on Amazon right now so I got a couple of those. But I agree I think lead for an aux battery is pretty much dead at this point.
Crazy that every single 5 star review on Amazon for these was in turn for a free product.
There are more than 50. And the one bad review is the guy who didn’t get one for free.
All they gotta do is make a handful of good ones, give ‘em out then slowly scale back the quality.
Make sure do give all the UA-camrs the best example they can muster.
We are the product.
Ordered from Amazon, with discounts and an extra $25 off, $202. This'll do well as a house battery for my sailboat
Also found seikon has a 200 amp hour battery for $399 also on Amazon! Fingers crossed it’s as good as the 100 amp hour!???
I have been using solar systems for about ten years. Components have been very reliable. I can't say the same about my deep cycle lead acid batteries. I even tried 6 volt golf cart batteries. They were no better. And, yes, I never discharged my batteries below 50 percent. I eventually went to sealed and even AGM batteries. I got tired of having to add water. I have two different systems in the house. I was seriously considering doing away with one of the systems when the two 200AH batteries died. After a lot of thought I decided to try a lithium battery. I had to buy a charger suitable for lithium batteries. I bought one 200AH lithium batteries and was pleased to see that it easily replaced the two lead acid batteries, I now will NEVER buy another lead acid battery. It is amazing and has made my solar system totally trouble free and the life of this battery should be much longer.
Will, please do a video on charging LifPo with a lead-acid charger when the LifPo has a BMI. My RV mechanic said I have to change out my charger if I go to LifPo. I have heard that with a BMI any charger will do.
The reason to change out a charger for LiFePO4 batteries is that the charger won't get the Voltage high enough. If you have a solar system installed with a LiFePO4 MPPT solar controller, and can get enough sun during the day, that would cover it. All of these kinds of batteries seem to have a passive balancing mode, but one needs to get the battery (bank) up to the highest recommended charging Voltage in order for that to work, which is why chargers for lead-acid don't work very well.
If your battery charger is also a Converter, you may need to change it out.
These batteries all look the same anymore really. The cycle numbers are pretty pointless. They are all over the place even within the same companies, exactly as you pointed out. Additionally, pretty much nobody gives the conditions for which those ratings apply - such as 5000 cycles at a 1C charge/discharge to 80% state of health. It's silly, they'll keep one-upping one another by using lower discharge rates to get higher numbers.
Keep in mind someone may steel them. You are right but as prices drop we can abuse them and replace them. What about 10 year old solar panels? Replace, add more, when do we upgrade considering they are not recycling them.
i am watching you from Egypt and i wanna tell you the price of this battery here is about 500$-1000$ that is why most of ppl here buy lead acid battery
This could be quite a game changer in the solar RV market.
Wow simply amazing.
Just ordered one
We're about to go to AGM. We live on a boat and it's becoming very challenging to keep insurance companies happy with lithium.
Hopefully that will change...
Thanks for your fantastic videos 👍👍
Make sure the insurance Co knows it's LiFePO4, not just lithium, as the newer LFP batteries do NOT get thermal run-away!
@@Tumbleweed5150 all batteries can do a thermal runaway including lithium iron phosphate. That is pure hype and BS put out by the manufacturers. There are many scientific papers that show a lithium iron phosphate battery doing a thermal runaway.
I know it's difficult to find someone with a capacity for understanding/a brain in the insurance business but find one, sit them down, and show them the difference between lithium ion and lithium iron phosphate. They are classing lithium iron phosphate as lithium ion and they are in totally separate realms with regard to fire risk.
@@Tumbleweed5150 thanks. We'll try that. Lifepo4 would be much nicer. Had a wee heart thing a bit back and they're soooooooooo much lighter!
@@Channel-gz9hm thanks 👍
The sodium batteries are in the pipeline. Expect Li to drop in price even more when sodium starts hitting the retail market. It will be an interesting time watching the battle.
Well sodium batteries failed years ago and companies went bankrupt so I am not holding my breath.
Excellent review.
I appreciate your reviews and was waiting/hoping you would review this battery, thank you!
My comments are related to their protection claims, I have always thought low temp had 2 separate settings, low temp charging (around 32 F or 0 C) and low temp discharge (around 0 F or -15 C) only a temp controlled test would be able to properly evaluate and while dry ice or compressed air does activate the probe, we do not know at what temp and their website only showed, what I consider low temp discharge of 0 F, so maybe this would get damaged by trying to charge below freezing?
That, with what you found on over current worries me. I have bought many of the Redodo brands and they show both low temp charge and low temp discharge, although I have never properly tested them and their prices are comparable.
Keep up the great work as you are the standard I look to for accuracy.
I just saw the basic Redodo 100Ah is 224 bucks right now on amazon. Not bad. Thought I got an excellent deal at 299 a year ago!
I didn't worry any more temp cut out. It doesn't get that cold where I am in Winter. I still wear shorts and tshirts when it's that time of year
I'll never understand why you'd use LA in an RV at what the last few years of LIPO4 competition has done. You can buy 3-4 of these for one Battle Born.