Hey all! happy to say the follow up to this video is up and runnin! I went for a Supercut to celebrate 1k subs! get some popcorn, check it out and thanks again, for everything ♥ ua-cam.com/video/b2ETak7MH9k/v-deo.html
I like how the game just shows his body hitting the ground, no fan fair, no swelling of the music, John doesn’t go “oh Dutch I all ways trusted you!”. It’s simply just a man dying. It also shows how “over” their time is. No crazy western music, no upbeat music as the man who caused John so much pain dies. It’s just a whistle, a whimper.
@@O_Obsidious It pretty much is the perfect response. At that point, Dutch has made it very clear that a lot of his words are empty. He was unable to back up anything he said. Why bother taking him seriously from John's perspective?
It gets me because in the mission where Colm kidnaps Arthur I started thinking he really isn't much different from Dutch. He's literally just more honest about his role in the world. Dutch tells this lie about being Robin Hood.
Ah man imagine being one of the police men, like one minute it’s a normal execution of a infamous gang leader, the next all hell breaks loose as 2 gangs have a shoot out over the dead body.
@@randomlyentertaining8287 they definitely did at one point, in rdr2 arthur has a newspaper of his first ever bank job with hosea and Dutch and it says that they went round giving the money to the less fortunate afterwards
Dutch talks about being unable to fight change and nature but yet. Ultimately does by going over the cliff. He spared John the emotional pain of having to kill his father unlike how he couldn’t save Arthur
*Honestly I think that was the point...NOBODY could stop Dutch not even the US military, he has an effect on people, and at that moment on that mountain cliff John didn't want to shoot him and only Dutch himself had the power to stop himself. Dutch was dying but he couldn't stop that will of his to stop fighting he is a rebel at heart but without Hosea and even Arthur and John by his side Dutch couldn't live his utopia outlaw lifestyle the same with the new gang he created in West Elizabeth in RDR1...*
Damn. Dutch really was one of the last, huh? Think about it, cars are a thing at this point. Electricity and indoor plumbing are becoming a basic commodity for everyone, they’ve filled in the blank edges of the map. Dutch may have been self serving at this point, but he did realize that the way of the gunslinging outlaws was at its end. Communication had already made a massive jump forward by this point, even Arthur said himself in RDR2 that “put enough time and space between you and your problems and they usually went away. Ain’t like that no more.” Dutch had finally realized that at that final moment, and decided to take his life his own way
Well Arthur was partially wrong. You still can make your problems go away with enough time and space. The thing is the amount of time and space. Back in the day, if you got into trouble on the East Coast, you could head to the West Coast and be a completely new person. Now, you'd have to go to a isolated island.
@@randomlyentertaining8287 TaHiti!!! Nah, I’m kidding. While that’s possible, the level of technology available is also something to consider. It’s entirely possible to get to a private/isolated island, but without being seen by a camera? That’s hard to do, back in the 1800s they had word of mouth and accidental exposure to the news that helped them track outlaws/criminals. Keep a low profile far enough away, no one asked any questions
47:19 this part made me choke up. Roger Clarke has mentioned that he also believes Dutch was thinking of Arthur before he jumped to his death. Great video!
I think there's a camp interaction where you can hear dutch reciting one of his speeches in his tent and i like to believe that he often reflected honestly about himself and his life decisions time and time again and drew up that final speech as an honest expression for when he did meet his end.
I always thought Dutch jumping off the cliff and committing suicide was Rockstar telling us that while John and Arthur are redeemable and they get their redemption, Dutch will never do that. He is too selfish. He killed himself to preserve his own pride, he couldn’t bear to be killed by John. I think him killing himself emphasizes how bad and selfish he is. Now, when I say this, I am NOT saying that suicide means you’re a bad person, I’m just saying Dutch is because of his reasoning. Anyways that’s just what I think, might be wrong, might be right but that is what i have chosen to believe.
If you shoot the soldiers during the speech in results in something very reminiscent of how John dies while you are Dutch get killed in a hail of bullets taking a few soldiers down with them, a microcosm of their lives. Then you gotta restart because you die but it's so worth it I died it 7 times
huh, I never thought of it that way! it is similar to how John goes. I tried too to take em all out, you can but theres always a rifleman up top that spawns in and takes you and dutch out.
I find it interesting that Dutch de-personalized the hanging of Colm and killing of some of his men right as he and Sadie were getting in the wagon. Usually he talks about how it was his own personal revenge against whatever Colm did, but there? Nah, it wasn't something he was even thinking about.
Yeah! nice observation, thanks so much for watchin friend! I wanted to show colm's end, (was worried itd make the video too long or not cohesive but I went for it) i think its important to show dutch's delusions at this point and like you mentioned, his contradictions. We see how Colm's crimes, and the choices he made culminate in his death. Thats exactly what happens to Dutch in the original Redemption! I wanted to show and solidify his clear detachment from reality, hes crafted his very own instead. Its important for the eagle flies missions too, as when colm captured arthur he essentially had the same plan as dutch, get them all killed, captured, arrested, cause some chaos, some smoke and during all of that find an escape for his own gang. Dutch is stuck between wanting to prove something or other, and wanting to find a real escape (and retirement) for the gang. The former keeps winning, everytime. I tried to keep it under an hour anyway lol it was hard
Just want to point out that the song that starts playing when Sadie first fires her gun sounds just like Triggernometry from the first game. Even the little guitar lick at the beginning!
If you think about it, it's almost like the Last Samurai type thing. The age of the gunslinger was coming to an end, and the "glory days" of the past were behind (this wasn't the wild west). Might as well go out in a bang rather than a whimper when the evil of modern society put down the good old boys that made society what it was.
Not really sure what a bunch of outlaws contributed to modern democracy. Also keep in mind that rebels during the Meiji restoration were angry because the samurai class, aka rich landowners, were pissed they will be losing their privilege, Your image of them seems to be overwhelmingly informed by hollywood pop history.
@@clinicallyarsonistic I think they're actually portraying the point from _Dutch's_ perspective, not the modern perspective. To an outlaw of the Wild West, who saw robbing banks and trains as a respectable way of "earning" themselves a living, it's entirely reasonable to consider cars (which don't require nearly as much fuel as horses and also don't tire after a day's ride), phones, and the other infrastructure that laid the foundation for the modern era to be "evil."
Dutch always the showman lol I dunno either, maybe there was more to the mission. he is randomly wounded all of a sudden, I guess Dutch knows how iconic the cattleman is haha
Dutch saved one more of his crew one more time. Any showdown ends with john dead and dutch escaping to cause more hell. The hell was for his sons. Not to kill his sons. So he saved his youngest son from Dutch Vanderlinde. The best strategist is the one that can even defeat himself if that will cause just the right ripple in the timeline. He had a plan. IT WAS A GOOD ONE. It SAVED John.
this reminds me of a vid I saw which comments talked about possible ideas for RDR 2's version of Undead Nightmare, and an idea I liked was, Dutch's last days and death in RDR 1 from Dutch's perspective, the supernatural aspects would come from Dutch's squewed view of reality cause of his insanity, and the final moments would be of you as Dutch running away from John, but instead of John, you see a Shadow figure that resembles both John and Arthur, the embodiment of Dutch's sins coming to hunt him, you can shoot at the figure, but nothing happens, your bullets don't affect it, all you can do is run, and at the end, once you reach the mountain's cliff, you "teleported" back to that cliffside in 1899, but instead of facing the barrels of Army soldiers, you face John, having once last moment of Lucidity to speak before... you jump, ending it all and taking your own life to spare John the pain of killing you.
I just watched the prologue video and this after, and I gotta say I really enjoyed the vibe your videos give. You have a bright future my friend and you got a subscriber!
I believe Dutch was a good honorable man in the beginning but his ideas and methods were always flawed and I believe some real bad things happened to Dutch that made him fall into madness like Colm killing his lover Annabel all of which is a story I would love to read.❤
Id like to think dutch truly did have romantic, revolutionary ideas. He was always a teacher, and though hypocritical at times, he did do his best to empower those in his gang. He worked and, with his allies, made an impresive and voluntary system of folks with rolls they fancied and a focus on group cohesion. But his speech about nature? Thats where you really see the cracks. Despite his learning and despite a life time of playing robin hood- Dutch at his core was a petty thief who grew up in the burgeoning horror of westward expansion. Greed and grit runs in his veins along with a feral need to survive. Micah spoke to the survivor one had to be to make it in the frontier, and the greed one had to have to put themselves above the chaff. He fought change with his own version of it- but in the end dutch defaulted to the comfortable and familiar. Irony- damning him to become a carbon copy of his most hated rival and a sullying his legacy to anyone he ever did right by. He stopped fighting gravity and, in the end, succumbed to it.
fine words feller! Thats why I love Dutch, he was a hero when the west really was lawless, and what law there was? Truly corrupt... Well that last part stayed the same, but as the wild part of the west died so did Dutch's dreams, his ambitions, and it was replaced with bitterness and vengeance. Workin on an american venom video, about that cycle of redemption, and vengeance. thanks for the view friend!
So about the lore... 3:24 shows Dutch with a Semi-Automatic Pistol. However, when we catch him on the cliff, he's got a Cattleman Revolver. Good luck with making that lore work lol
To celebrate 500 subs heres a 50 minute video! if youve got a game you wanna see let me know! Thanks so much for the love and support on my channel, we are closing in on over 100K VIEWS in total... heres to the future ♥
I have to agree... The story of RDR1 is better... It's better paced, more concise, and the emotional weight of saving your immediate family along with being used by the government only to get (expectantly) betrayed by them in the end makes for a better story. Plus, I think that while Arthur was a great character, he felt a tad inconsistent and out of place in the grand arc of both RDR1 & 2. That being said... There are so many perfect story beats that rival or are out right better in RDR2, especially with Dutch... Who's the best character in RDR2 imo. I would've loved to see them go back a little further and show that transitional period with Dutch. At least show what happened in Black Water... It was teased in the first one and they didn't even show it in the second. Nevertheless, many great moments were shown with his character to further enhance the conflict of interest in the first game which is why I think you perfectly explained how together as two games made for an incredible experience and character study. Dutch is arguably the best antagonist in gaming history... So much depth to his character that was perfectly done.
Great video man, I agree with you on rdr1's story being the better of the 2 (not dissing 2's of course) I hope the original gets a sort of last of us part 1 type remake one day but that's wishful thinking
I feel like red dead 3 should be about the gang's formation, like a duo game between hosea and dutch, how they met and the game should end with blackwater and them escaping it into the snowstorm from the beginning of rdr2
I think there is definitely some possibility that Dutch was just improvising when he and Arthur were cornered and later thought about why he said that and in the end, really meant his last words.
I love how they made dutch look, at the beginning I thought it was nice too see him like a Robin hood, but overtime he did the same thing, rob the rich, give to the poor but when he did that, he said too himself I'm trying to get as much money out of this as possible, even if it ment ruining the citizens lifestyle.
wow now that would be a wild turn of events feller! Thanks for the view, appreciate yah! I think red dead 3 would end up being further in the past, hopefully letting us play as both John and Arthur freely and in co-op.
@@BrinkPink I think it will be further in the past too, but like with John, we will play a character similar to Arthur who isn't mentioned in the previous games who somehow influenced someone important in the future. Maybe we'll see a younger Arthur and someone who influenced his arch. Maybe we could even play as someone who influenced Dutch, maybe we see how Charles ended up in the gang (as he said at the start that he ran wild and alone for years before the gang. Who knows what he got up to), maybe even see/be a young Uncle. It has to be someone who ends up dying or living honorably in the end. Nobody wants to play as someone evil/selfish to the core. I'm most hoping for either Uncle or seeing someone who tried to steer Dutch right and failed before he became a gang leader. Ultimately I think the story of Red Dead will always revolve around Dutch in some form. But I do also think we should never know what exactly happened in Blackwater. The mystery surrounding it is far more interesting than anything they could present us with as truth at this point. Anything they could conjure will never live up to the imaginings people have. And I think that's the point. The greatest of tales are ones shrouded in mystery, especially in the myths of gunslingers and other historical rebels. This is reflected in the Calloway missions. We never find out anything really concrete about him or his past. But now I'm writing my own novel lol
Good video! You couldve cut out a lot of the random gameplay footage that didnt really serve any point. The central arguments and analysis were great, very insightful!
thanks! I wanted to give context and dialogue people might have missed, or forgot about, plus I like to think the action splits up my ramblings well enuff lol. I prefer not using scripts either. They serve as a point of understanding the story and parallels im trying to lay out. And as the years go on, just like the first red dead more and more people wont remember or will have never even seen any of these scenes. appreciate ya!
Arthur is an afterthought, he wasn't even imagined by the time the first game was released. BTW, I just realized I'd have done everything Dutch did in his stead. His actions completely make sense from his point of view. The problem most people don't understand what he's doing as they view it from Arthur's point of view.
arthur wasnt even a name on a piece of paper yet for red dead 1. Everything Arthur is, is thanks to John Marston's character and the lessons learned from his development in 1. For dutch i think the killings of truly innocent people is a hard thing to spin for one of his speeches, for his point of view. I think he did get sloppier than the town drunk, and aligned himself with a bunch of rats and cowards. Killing Heidi McCourt changes dutch and pushes him down the path of just really being a killer. He always was deranged in red dead 1, 2 just shows when he really started cracking from the pressure. Its to lead further in to what he becomes for 1.
I appreciate this video, the attention to detail like taking into consideration dialogue that takes place during gameplay and I find you're fairly well reasoned. Love the pfp too. I think you're largely wrong about Dutch though. I do like how you're willing to glean wisdom from a thoroughly flawed and villainous character, that is important and you're probably more open to that than I. However Dutch's character has no redeeming qualities, everything people find admirable about him is nought but deception. He is a megalomaniacal narcissist through and through. You glossed over how Dutch 42:50 views people as being tangential to establishing his motives, but few things tell you more about a person than how they see the world and the people in it. Dutch is pathologically incapable of caring about other people, John, Arthur, the gang members, the native army none of them matter to him more than his own self preservation, and for narcissists power and control is considered essential for that. There is an important reason Dutch leaving John for dead is brought up over and over, that moment was John's mask off moment when he finally saw how Dutch's words never lived up to his behaviour. Dutch abused John, he found a child alone and vulnerable in the world and intentionally groomed him to become a thief and killer for his own enrichment. He isn't just a villain because of how he treated people outside the gang, but how he created a gang in the first place! Something quite criminally overlooked by people is that Dutch has never been poor, if he ever needed to turn to a life of crime he certainly didn't need to for such an extended period of time. The only reason the gang didn't split up and settle down or make a living free of exploitation and violence is because Dutch wouldn't let them, he was ideologically opposed to living such a life. The gangs only real purpose was to be Dutch's insulation from the constraints of the real world, the real world being people he didn't have complete dominance and control over. Micah didn't corrupt Dutch, he was just like him. They used each other, a mutually toxic relationship. The only difference between the two was Micah's lack of deceptive theatre. I go to all this effort because I strongly believe that romanticising narcissism is unproductive, self deceiving and ultimately only serves to enable the behaviour further. I have C-PTSD from being abused by narcissists and have spent a considerable part of my life learning about psychology and human behaviour. I would have liked to provide a argument tied in with more examples and evidence but I'm currently experience cognitive impairment from said PTSD, so a written explanation is the best I've got at the moment. With that explanation, I believe Dutch Van Der Linde is one of the greatest representations of a megalomaniacal narcissist in fiction. The fact that so many people admire the character in spite of his atrocities is testament not only to the excellent writing and acting but how pervasive the permissiveness of such behaviour is in our societies. In that way most of us have more in common with a young John Marston than Dutch.
its the coyote gambler hat! I wear it because its literally the closest hat you can get to Dutch's! I thought that was really neat, as John and Arthur take on a ton of Dutch's (and Hosea's) tendencies and learnings, so I wanted to find a Dutch hat for them both. Ended up with the Coyote gambler hat, You can make it at the trapper! Both John and Arthur's hats during the story are listed as "gambler hats" so I thought the coyote gambler would be an awesome addition. Ive went thru so many outfits, but the one Arthur is wearing here ended up being my favorite set for him. I love that hat for arthur and my favorite hats in the game are john's gray gamblers hat, and of course his rdr1 hat.
that the ww1 shooter? lol yeah usually you get locked into the sniper carcano for that section, but I descoped my sniper so instead it stays in third person with a much wider (and cooler) view. Personally its hard to go back to a scope after that lol, so my snipers have no scope
@@BrinkPink hahaha yeah I totally spelled it wrong yeah the no scope looks good I usually only have a scope on the trapdoor Springfield as my hunting gun in that game then everything else is no scope but also use like the most basic guns in that game 😂😂
Very poignantly done. Only major disagreement I have is, I just never see anything that Dutch says as much more than frantic denial; a noble rat running out of sinking ship. He brings his flowery voice when he's talking to those officers at the cliff's edge, and uses words like 'change' and 'nature' just as a setup to signal Arthur to make the possibly-suicidal jump at his codeword, 'gravity'. To him, remaining in control and continuing his deluded fantasies, are both more important than facing reality. RDR2 is, in my eyes, ultimately a story about Dutch. A story about the romanticised vision of America, of freedom manifest, and how completely chaotic and contradictory that idea actually is. Dutch believes in that promise, all the way up until his last moments, when he has the freedom to choose suicide over imprisonment. And it would be noble of him, if he hadn't gotten so many of his brothers and sons killed along the way, in service to his increasing divorcement from reality. I think that's the great parallel: Dutch is the swansong of the American dream. And step by step, he shows just how insane and beautiful a vision that actually was, and how violently it clashes with the reality of modern America. Passionate idealism, and desperation, showing him to be an eloquent snake oil salesman, and turning him into a monster whose ends justify whatever means. For sure, the context changes when he repeats the same message to John. But it's because he failed Arthur, and that forced him to see that no amount of philosophy and idealism could reconcile his vision with the real world.
hmmm, i dont remember all of it lol its pieced together from outfit sets i THINK in the valentine and st denis shops, the trapper, and challenges. its been a while since I played thru the early game chapters
@@johngrigo8912went to a old save, the jacket is from the deauvalle? outfit from st denis tailor, its the dark blue shotgun coat vest is the legendary buck vest from the trapper rancher pants from a honor check valentine outfit set coyote gambler hat from trapper bandit gunbelt and holster sets, and the satchel is the provisions one. Yellow riding gloves, they are a sundance kid reference Worn roper boots, Spurs are rusted gerden trail, but I also use the stengers. and the standard bandana max length hair, beard and stache length 2.
I feel like the video is a lot longer than it needs to be when showing the Army mission because it basically turns into a commentaryless let's play. I almost forgot I was watching an analysis after a while.
Everything I put here was so even if youre new to one or even both games/series or simply have forgotten everything, you will understand what im covering in the video entirely! As time keeps on slippin away, more people will need the context. Alot of red dead fans I talk to never even played the first game, or vice versa. The entirety of the video was to setup that mission, this is the main act of this episode so I showed the whole thing! If it was an analysis video, I wouldve put that in the title. Thanks for watchin
21:49 Arthur could stand to be a little more blunt. Instead of hinting at what they've done and just assuming the guy understands.. He should just say "I don't think slaughtering a squad of soldiers wilk help your case". He leaves too much to chance with his little comments. If he had been more foward from the start maybe he could have changed thr boy's mind.
Your analysis is so interesting, but I think the incredibly long sequences of gameplay just pad out your video and it gets kind of boring. I think it would make more sense to verbally refer to whatever event or major dialogue exchange you want to reference, reserving clips for shorter pieces of dialogue (like you did with Dutch's final speech)
fair enough, I felt that maybe I was talking too much and the gameplay sections were a good break but also they were a useful tool to ensure everyone knows what i was building up to... Ill keep that in mind in the future, and thanks for watchin!
@@BrinkPink Nah, I would say you're very eloquent and I definitely enjoyed listening. Not talking too much at all Keep doing good content man, good luck
Controversial take: beyond betraying the deal with John, I actually don’t mind Ross. Because he’s right, John, Arthur, Dutch, the whole gang, are murderers. They kill, often without remorse, and act without care for consequence. As Milton said they ARE savages and they did die savagely. It’s hard to argue they didn’t earn their fates. But some were innocent, Abagail, Jack and the other ‘civilian’ members weren’t so bad, but the adults were complicit 100%. Does it justify everything? No. But he’s certainly the lesser evil compared to the destruction wrought by the Van Der Lindes and O’driscolls
Just want to point out that the song that starts playing when Sadie first fires her gun sounds just like Triggernometry from the first game. Even the little guitar lick at the beginning!
Hey all! happy to say the follow up to this video is up and runnin! I went for a Supercut to celebrate 1k subs!
get some popcorn, check it out and thanks again, for everything ♥ ua-cam.com/video/b2ETak7MH9k/v-deo.html
Just you left?
Yeah... just me BLAM BLAM BLAM.
I like how the game just shows his body hitting the ground, no fan fair, no swelling of the music, John doesn’t go “oh Dutch I all ways trusted you!”. It’s simply just a man dying. It also shows how “over” their time is. No crazy western music, no upbeat music as the man who caused John so much pain dies. It’s just a whistle, a whimper.
"Then give up, Dutch" is such an overlooked response to his dramatic speech
"But I can't give up neither" I imagine John giving Dutch an eye roll lmao, he's sounds so over it
@@O_Obsidious It pretty much is the perfect response. At that point, Dutch has made it very clear that a lot of his words are empty. He was unable to back up anything he said. Why bother taking him seriously from John's perspective?
The Moment Colm realizes hes not getting saved by his gang and is about to be hanged always gets me.
For real that’s a terrifying situation to imagine. It’s one of the most disturbing deaths in the game and there isn’t even any blood.
It gets me because in the mission where Colm kidnaps Arthur I started thinking he really isn't much different from Dutch. He's literally just more honest about his role in the world. Dutch tells this lie about being Robin Hood.
Ah man imagine being one of the police men, like one minute it’s a normal execution of a infamous gang leader, the next all hell breaks loose as 2 gangs have a shoot out over the dead body.
@@Mephilis78 As I understand it, it wasn't always a lie. In the beginning, they really did help the less fortunate.
@@randomlyentertaining8287 they definitely did at one point, in rdr2 arthur has a newspaper of his first ever bank job with hosea and Dutch and it says that they went round giving the money to the less fortunate afterwards
Dutch talks about being unable to fight change and nature but yet. Ultimately does by going over the cliff. He spared John the emotional pain of having to kill his father unlike how he couldn’t save Arthur
oooh I like this interpretation!
Appreciate the view
@BrinkPink it's possible he was trying to do for john what he couldn't for arthur,give him a chance to live a full life
*Honestly I think that was the point...NOBODY could stop Dutch not even the US military, he has an effect on people, and at that moment on that mountain cliff John didn't want to shoot him and only Dutch himself had the power to stop himself. Dutch was dying but he couldn't stop that will of his to stop fighting he is a rebel at heart but without Hosea and even Arthur and John by his side Dutch couldn't live his utopia outlaw lifestyle the same with the new gang he created in West Elizabeth in RDR1...*
But entirely doesn't, Ross put a bullet in him and played off that it happened anyways, so as he says, you can't fight change🤷♂️
Leaving the outlaw lifestyle is the ultimate change that Arthur, John and Dutch failed to do
Damn. Dutch really was one of the last, huh? Think about it, cars are a thing at this point. Electricity and indoor plumbing are becoming a basic commodity for everyone, they’ve filled in the blank edges of the map. Dutch may have been self serving at this point, but he did realize that the way of the gunslinging outlaws was at its end. Communication had already made a massive jump forward by this point, even Arthur said himself in RDR2 that “put enough time and space between you and your problems and they usually went away. Ain’t like that no more.” Dutch had finally realized that at that final moment, and decided to take his life his own way
Well Arthur was partially wrong. You still can make your problems go away with enough time and space. The thing is the amount of time and space. Back in the day, if you got into trouble on the East Coast, you could head to the West Coast and be a completely new person. Now, you'd have to go to a isolated island.
@@randomlyentertaining8287 TaHiti!!! Nah, I’m kidding. While that’s possible, the level of technology available is also something to consider. It’s entirely possible to get to a private/isolated island, but without being seen by a camera? That’s hard to do, back in the 1800s they had word of mouth and accidental exposure to the news that helped them track outlaws/criminals. Keep a low profile far enough away, no one asked any questions
47:19 this part made me choke up. Roger Clarke has mentioned that he also believes Dutch was thinking of Arthur before he jumped to his death. Great video!
thanks friend!!
I think there's a camp interaction where you can hear dutch reciting one of his speeches in his tent and i like to believe that he often reflected honestly about himself and his life decisions time and time again and drew up that final speech as an honest expression for when he did meet his end.
I always thought Dutch jumping off the cliff and committing suicide was Rockstar telling us that while John and Arthur are redeemable and they get their redemption, Dutch will never do that. He is too selfish. He killed himself to preserve his own pride, he couldn’t bear to be killed by John. I think him killing himself emphasizes how bad and selfish he is. Now, when I say this, I am NOT saying that suicide means you’re a bad person, I’m just saying Dutch is because of his reasoning. Anyways that’s just what I think, might be wrong, might be right but that is what i have chosen to believe.
its open to interpretation of course, thats why I think it such a great, powerful scene yah know?
anyway, thanks for watchin friend!! appreciate yah
I really like this take and completely agree.
If you shoot the soldiers during the speech in results in something very reminiscent of how John dies while you are Dutch get killed in a hail of bullets taking a few soldiers down with them, a microcosm of their lives. Then you gotta restart because you die but it's so worth it I died it 7 times
huh, I never thought of it that way! it is similar to how John goes.
I tried too to take em all out, you can but theres always a rifleman up top that spawns in and takes you and dutch out.
I find it interesting that Dutch de-personalized the hanging of Colm and killing of some of his men right as he and Sadie were getting in the wagon. Usually he talks about how it was his own personal revenge against whatever Colm did, but there? Nah, it wasn't something he was even thinking about.
Yeah! nice observation, thanks so much for watchin friend!
I wanted to show colm's end, (was worried itd make the video too long or not cohesive but I went for it) i think its important to show dutch's delusions at this point and like you mentioned, his contradictions.
We see how Colm's crimes, and the choices he made culminate in his death. Thats exactly what happens to Dutch in the original Redemption!
I wanted to show and solidify his clear detachment from reality, hes crafted his very own instead.
Its important for the eagle flies missions too, as when colm captured arthur he essentially had the same plan as dutch, get them all killed, captured, arrested, cause some chaos, some smoke and during all of that find an escape for his own gang.
Dutch is stuck between wanting to prove something or other, and wanting to find a real escape (and retirement) for the gang. The former keeps winning, everytime.
I tried to keep it under an hour anyway lol it was hard
I like how he falls on rocks, but the sound effect is a wooden box.
Just want to point out that the song that starts playing when Sadie first fires her gun sounds just like Triggernometry from the first game. Even the little guitar lick at the beginning!
If you think about it, it's almost like the Last Samurai type thing. The age of the gunslinger was coming to an end, and the "glory days" of the past were behind (this wasn't the wild west). Might as well go out in a bang rather than a whimper when the evil of modern society put down the good old boys that made society what it was.
Not really sure what a bunch of outlaws contributed to modern democracy. Also keep in mind that rebels during the Meiji restoration were angry because the samurai class, aka rich landowners, were pissed they will be losing their privilege, Your image of them seems to be overwhelmingly informed by hollywood pop history.
@@clinicallyarsonistic I think they're actually portraying the point from _Dutch's_ perspective, not the modern perspective. To an outlaw of the Wild West, who saw robbing banks and trains as a respectable way of "earning" themselves a living, it's entirely reasonable to consider cars (which don't require nearly as much fuel as horses and also don't tire after a day's ride), phones, and the other infrastructure that laid the foundation for the modern era to be "evil."
Severely underrated, also idk why dutches gun changes to a cattleman
Dutch always the showman lol I dunno either, maybe there was more to the mission.
he is randomly wounded all of a sudden, I guess Dutch knows how iconic the cattleman is haha
@@BrinkPink he was hiding the cattleman in his intestines and the wound was from him retrieving it. (obviously)
@@BrinkPink Dutch pulled a Steve Haines and shot himself shortly after exiting our view
Most likely he lost it in between games and wasn't able to replace it do to his bounty
Most likely, he actually lost it in a fight and grabbed that one, and kept it because of its familiarity
What a great connection. Awesome video
15:47 Dutch knows they aren't helping. He's a villain disguised as a salesman.
Dutch saved one more of his crew one more time. Any showdown ends with john dead and dutch escaping to cause more hell. The hell was for his sons. Not to kill his sons. So he saved his youngest son from Dutch Vanderlinde. The best strategist is the one that can even defeat himself if that will cause just the right ripple in the timeline. He had a plan. IT WAS A GOOD ONE. It SAVED John.
except it didn't save John, he still died, but it did save Jack
this reminds me of a vid I saw which comments talked about possible ideas for RDR 2's version of Undead Nightmare, and an idea I liked was, Dutch's last days and death in RDR 1 from Dutch's perspective, the supernatural aspects would come from Dutch's squewed view of reality cause of his insanity, and the final moments would be of you as Dutch running away from John, but instead of John, you see a Shadow figure that resembles both John and Arthur, the embodiment of Dutch's sins coming to hunt him, you can shoot at the figure, but nothing happens, your bullets don't affect it, all you can do is run, and at the end, once you reach the mountain's cliff, you "teleported" back to that cliffside in 1899, but instead of facing the barrels of Army soldiers, you face John, having once last moment of Lucidity to speak before... you jump, ending it all and taking your own life to spare John the pain of killing you.
Give this man a million subs already 🗣️🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
lets just aim for makin good videos, one step at a time lol
thanks for so much for watchin!!
My head canon is that Dutch was injured whilst fleeing blackwater and tore his stitches whilst running through the caves.
25:16
Nice Call of Juarez reference.
Permanent addition to my vocabulary that one is.
Such a good video I accidentally liked it twice. So in the end I like it 3 times.
I just watched the prologue video and this after, and I gotta say I really enjoyed the vibe your videos give. You have a bright future my friend and you got a subscriber!
I just realized I’ve never really played in 1st person, at least not in combat. I think I need to try that later, looked cool.
definitely gets more immersive that way, although i think the fov is a lil too squished for my taste
I believe Dutch was a good honorable man in the beginning but his ideas and methods were always flawed and I believe some real bad things happened to Dutch that made him fall into madness like Colm killing his lover Annabel all of which is a story I would love to read.❤
His downfall was micah
@@nicolae-alexandruluca7853 it was partly Micah
Quality analysis
appreciate yah! thanks friend!
I started pokemon with pokemon yellow on my turquoise gameboy color by the way, still have my cards
Nice I’ve held on to mine too, even when they were selling well during lockdown I couldn’t let ‘em go
Before I just subbed you had 666 subscribers. You make great videos so I had to break your curse
Id like to think dutch truly did have romantic, revolutionary ideas. He was always a teacher, and though hypocritical at times, he did do his best to empower those in his gang. He worked and, with his allies, made an impresive and voluntary system of folks with rolls they fancied and a focus on group cohesion. But his speech about nature? Thats where you really see the cracks. Despite his learning and despite a life time of playing robin hood- Dutch at his core was a petty thief who grew up in the burgeoning horror of westward expansion. Greed and grit runs in his veins along with a feral need to survive. Micah spoke to the survivor one had to be to make it in the frontier, and the greed one had to have to put themselves above the chaff. He fought change with his own version of it- but in the end dutch defaulted to the comfortable and familiar. Irony- damning him to become a carbon copy of his most hated rival and a sullying his legacy to anyone he ever did right by. He stopped fighting gravity and, in the end, succumbed to it.
fine words feller!
Thats why I love Dutch, he was a hero when the west really was lawless, and what law there was? Truly corrupt...
Well that last part stayed the same, but as the wild part of the west died so did Dutch's dreams, his ambitions, and it was replaced with bitterness and vengeance.
Workin on an american venom video, about that cycle of redemption, and vengeance.
thanks for the view friend!
@BrinkPink of course, think I'll stick around and see ya through cause that's bound to be one thought provoking video, partner!
I love your videos! Keep it up partner :3
appreciate the kind words friend!
This is a damn good video but I don't see anyone talking about how smooth 26:33 is
thanks so much for the kind words friend!
the thud in dutchs death
So about the lore...
3:24 shows Dutch with a Semi-Automatic Pistol. However, when we catch him on the cliff, he's got a Cattleman Revolver.
Good luck with making that lore work lol
yah jus more gotta have faith boah
To celebrate 500 subs heres a 50 minute video!
if youve got a game you wanna see let me know!
Thanks so much for the love and support on my channel, we are closing in on over 100K VIEWS in total...
heres to the future ♥
1.15k subs. Quite the jump in 4 weeks. Glad to see the algorithm is pushing some good creators! Stay great!
another great video and congrats on 750 subs!
I have to agree... The story of RDR1 is better... It's better paced, more concise, and the emotional weight of saving your immediate family along with being used by the government only to get (expectantly) betrayed by them in the end makes for a better story. Plus, I think that while Arthur was a great character, he felt a tad inconsistent and out of place in the grand arc of both RDR1 & 2. That being said... There are so many perfect story beats that rival or are out right better in RDR2, especially with Dutch... Who's the best character in RDR2 imo. I would've loved to see them go back a little further and show that transitional period with Dutch. At least show what happened in Black Water... It was teased in the first one and they didn't even show it in the second. Nevertheless, many great moments were shown with his character to further enhance the conflict of interest in the first game which is why I think you perfectly explained how together as two games made for an incredible experience and character study. Dutch is arguably the best antagonist in gaming history... So much depth to his character that was perfectly done.
22:08 lol Charles waiting until it's over before saying he has a bad feeling lmfao
Great video man, I agree with you on rdr1's story being the better of the 2 (not dissing 2's of course) I hope the original gets a sort of last of us part 1 type remake one day but that's wishful thinking
thanks for the kind words friend!
u got ur wish
I feel like red dead 3 should be about the gang's formation, like a duo game between hosea and dutch, how they met and the game should end with blackwater and them escaping it into the snowstorm from the beginning of rdr2
I think there is definitely some possibility that Dutch was just improvising when he and Arthur were cornered and later thought about why he said that and in the end, really meant his last words.
Lore of Dutch's Last Words, and How Red Dead 2 Reimagined them -- Brink Pink ♥ momentum 100
They could do an individual rd origins game based on each individual character, id buy every one
I love how they made dutch look, at the beginning I thought it was nice too see him like a Robin hood, but overtime he did the same thing, rob the rich, give to the poor but when he did that, he said too himself I'm trying to get as much money out of this as possible, even if it ment ruining the citizens lifestyle.
What if you play as Charles mentoring Jack in Red Dead Redemption 3?
wow now that would be a wild turn of events feller! Thanks for the view, appreciate yah!
I think red dead 3 would end up being further in the past, hopefully letting us play as both John and Arthur freely and in co-op.
@@BrinkPink I think it will be further in the past too, but like with John, we will play a character similar to Arthur who isn't mentioned in the previous games who somehow influenced someone important in the future. Maybe we'll see a younger Arthur and someone who influenced his arch. Maybe we could even play as someone who influenced Dutch, maybe we see how Charles ended up in the gang (as he said at the start that he ran wild and alone for years before the gang. Who knows what he got up to), maybe even see/be a young Uncle. It has to be someone who ends up dying or living honorably in the end. Nobody wants to play as someone evil/selfish to the core. I'm most hoping for either Uncle or seeing someone who tried to steer Dutch right and failed before he became a gang leader. Ultimately I think the story of Red Dead will always revolve around Dutch in some form. But I do also think we should never know what exactly happened in Blackwater. The mystery surrounding it is far more interesting than anything they could present us with as truth at this point. Anything they could conjure will never live up to the imaginings people have. And I think that's the point. The greatest of tales are ones shrouded in mystery, especially in the myths of gunslingers and other historical rebels. This is reflected in the Calloway missions. We never find out anything really concrete about him or his past. But now I'm writing my own novel lol
Good video! You couldve cut out a lot of the random gameplay footage that didnt really serve any point. The central arguments and analysis were great, very insightful!
thanks! I wanted to give context and dialogue people might have missed, or forgot about, plus I like to think the action splits up my ramblings well enuff lol. I prefer not using scripts either.
They serve as a point of understanding the story and parallels im trying to lay out. And as the years go on, just like the first red dead more and more people wont remember or will have never even seen any of these scenes.
appreciate ya!
Arthur told Dutch that a looooooong time ago. It's a shame, for him, it took this long to learn it.
Arthur is an afterthought, he wasn't even imagined by the time the first game was released. BTW, I just realized I'd have done everything Dutch did in his stead. His actions completely make sense from his point of view. The problem most people don't understand what he's doing as they view it from Arthur's point of view.
arthur wasnt even a name on a piece of paper yet for red dead 1. Everything Arthur is, is thanks to John Marston's character and the lessons learned from his development in 1.
For dutch i think the killings of truly innocent people is a hard thing to spin for one of his speeches, for his point of view. I think he did get sloppier than the town drunk, and aligned himself with a bunch of rats and cowards. Killing Heidi McCourt changes dutch and pushes him down the path of just really being a killer.
He always was deranged in red dead 1, 2 just shows when he really started cracking from the pressure. Its to lead further in to what he becomes for 1.
I appreciate this video, the attention to detail like taking into consideration dialogue that takes place during gameplay and I find you're fairly well reasoned.
Love the pfp too. I think you're largely wrong about Dutch though. I do like how you're willing to glean wisdom from a thoroughly flawed and villainous character, that is important and you're probably more open to that than I.
However Dutch's character has no redeeming qualities, everything people find admirable about him is nought but deception. He is a megalomaniacal narcissist through and through.
You glossed over how Dutch 42:50 views people as being tangential to establishing his motives, but few things tell you more about a person than how they see the world and the people in it.
Dutch is pathologically incapable of caring about other people, John, Arthur, the gang members, the native army none of them matter to him more than his own self preservation, and for narcissists power and control is considered essential for that.
There is an important reason Dutch leaving John for dead is brought up over and over, that moment was John's mask off moment when he finally saw how Dutch's words never lived up to his behaviour. Dutch abused John, he found a child alone and vulnerable in the world and intentionally groomed him to become a thief and killer for his own enrichment. He isn't just a villain because of how he treated people outside the gang, but how he created a gang in the first place! Something quite criminally overlooked by people is that Dutch has never been poor, if he ever needed to turn to a life of crime he certainly didn't need to for such an extended period of time.
The only reason the gang didn't split up and settle down or make a living free of exploitation and violence is because Dutch wouldn't let them, he was ideologically opposed to living such a life.
The gangs only real purpose was to be Dutch's insulation from the constraints of the real world, the real world being people he didn't have complete dominance and control over.
Micah didn't corrupt Dutch, he was just like him. They used each other, a mutually toxic relationship. The only difference between the two was Micah's lack of deceptive theatre.
I go to all this effort because I strongly believe that romanticising narcissism is unproductive, self deceiving and ultimately only serves to enable the behaviour further.
I have C-PTSD from being abused by narcissists and have spent a considerable part of my life learning about psychology and human behaviour. I would have liked to provide a argument tied in with more examples and evidence but I'm currently experience cognitive impairment from said PTSD, so a written explanation is the best I've got at the moment.
With that explanation, I believe Dutch Van Der Linde is one of the greatest representations of a megalomaniacal narcissist in fiction. The fact that so many people admire the character in spite of his atrocities is testament not only to the excellent writing and acting but how pervasive the permissiveness of such behaviour is in our societies. In that way most of us have more in common with a young John Marston than Dutch.
u got urself a sub
appreciate ya!
What hat do you have Arthur wearing? I've never seen it. Is it the one you have to have perfect snake pelts for at the trapper?
its the coyote gambler hat! I wear it because its literally the closest hat you can get to Dutch's!
I thought that was really neat, as John and Arthur take on a ton of Dutch's (and Hosea's) tendencies and learnings, so I wanted to find a Dutch hat for them both.
Ended up with the Coyote gambler hat, You can make it at the trapper! Both John and Arthur's hats during the story are listed as "gambler hats" so I thought the coyote gambler would be an awesome addition.
Ive went thru so many outfits, but the one Arthur is wearing here ended up being my favorite set for him.
I love that hat for arthur and my favorite hats in the game are john's gray gamblers hat, and of course his rdr1 hat.
Love the coyote gambler hat. It's hella drip 😎👌
Great video
Was it also Arthur who also said “our time has pretty much pass.” Great video by the way.
After all that, it was in fact a bad plan lmao
That game was soooooooooo good.
Cool vid bro!
1:08 looks like isanzo
that the ww1 shooter?
lol yeah usually you get locked into the sniper carcano for that section, but I descoped my sniper so instead it stays in third person with a much wider (and cooler) view.
Personally its hard to go back to a scope after that lol, so my snipers have no scope
@@BrinkPink hahaha yeah I totally spelled it wrong yeah the no scope looks good I usually only have a scope on the trapdoor Springfield as my hunting gun in that game then everything else is no scope but also use like the most basic guns in that game 😂😂
Very poignantly done. Only major disagreement I have is, I just never see anything that Dutch says as much more than frantic denial; a noble rat running out of sinking ship. He brings his flowery voice when he's talking to those officers at the cliff's edge, and uses words like 'change' and 'nature' just as a setup to signal Arthur to make the possibly-suicidal jump at his codeword, 'gravity'.
To him, remaining in control and continuing his deluded fantasies, are both more important than facing reality. RDR2 is, in my eyes, ultimately a story about Dutch. A story about the romanticised vision of America, of freedom manifest, and how completely chaotic and contradictory that idea actually is. Dutch believes in that promise, all the way up until his last moments, when he has the freedom to choose suicide over imprisonment. And it would be noble of him, if he hadn't gotten so many of his brothers and sons killed along the way, in service to his increasing divorcement from reality.
I think that's the great parallel: Dutch is the swansong of the American dream. And step by step, he shows just how insane and beautiful a vision that actually was, and how violently it clashes with the reality of modern America. Passionate idealism, and desperation, showing him to be an eloquent snake oil salesman, and turning him into a monster whose ends justify whatever means.
For sure, the context changes when he repeats the same message to John. But it's because he failed Arthur, and that forced him to see that no amount of philosophy and idealism could reconcile his vision with the real world.
Is this the first time we see dutch runnin'??
edit: forgot to put in the time stamp sorry
Can you tell me every piece of clothing arthur is wearing? I like this outfit a lot
hmmm, i dont remember all of it lol
its pieced together from outfit sets i THINK in the valentine and st denis shops, the trapper, and challenges. its been a while since I played thru the early game chapters
@@BrinkPink well alright then
@@johngrigo8912he basically just said “he’s wearing clothes found in-game”
@@johngrigo8912went to a old save,
the jacket is from the deauvalle? outfit from st denis tailor, its the dark blue shotgun coat
vest is the legendary buck vest from the trapper
rancher pants from a honor check valentine outfit set
coyote gambler hat from trapper
bandit gunbelt and holster sets, and the satchel is the provisions one.
Yellow riding gloves, they are a sundance kid reference
Worn roper boots,
Spurs are rusted gerden trail, but I also use the stengers. and the standard bandana
max length hair, beard and stache length 2.
I feel like the video is a lot longer than it needs to be when showing the Army mission because it basically turns into a commentaryless let's play. I almost forgot I was watching an analysis after a while.
Everything I put here was so even if youre new to one or even both games/series or simply have forgotten everything, you will understand what im covering in the video entirely!
As time keeps on slippin away, more people will need the context. Alot of red dead fans I talk to never even played the first game, or vice versa.
The entirety of the video was to setup that mission, this is the main act of this episode so I showed the whole thing!
If it was an analysis video, I wouldve put that in the title. Thanks for watchin
also what happens if you shoot the rope that colm is hung by asap after the cut scene? has anyone tried that and seen if it keeps him alive
Nooses do more than choke you, they also break your neck when they snap taut. I don't think Colm is coming back from it.
what is the reason for Dutch randomly getting wounded?
I think there was a bit more to the dutch chase scene, we know at some point in development you could capture dutch alive
@@BrinkPink oh cool, thanks :)
im subscriber #800!
21:49 Arthur could stand to be a little more blunt. Instead of hinting at what they've done and just assuming the guy understands.. He should just say "I don't think slaughtering a squad of soldiers wilk help your case".
He leaves too much to chance with his little comments. If he had been more foward from the start maybe he could have changed thr boy's mind.
He didn’t fix the continuity because the officer said “so you didn’t have the guts to shoot him”
lol drats
19:24 no body need get hurt
w
huh. i don’t remember the first one… 🤷♂️
Your analysis is so interesting, but I think the incredibly long sequences of gameplay just pad out your video and it gets kind of boring. I think it would make more sense to verbally refer to whatever event or major dialogue exchange you want to reference, reserving clips for shorter pieces of dialogue (like you did with Dutch's final speech)
fair enough, I felt that maybe I was talking too much and the gameplay sections were a good break but also they were a useful tool to ensure everyone knows what i was building up to...
Ill keep that in mind in the future, and thanks for watchin!
@@BrinkPink Nah, I would say you're very eloquent and I definitely enjoyed listening. Not talking too much at all
Keep doing good content man, good luck
@@brianhardy3759 well thanks, i really appreciate the kind words!
Controversial take: beyond betraying the deal with John, I actually don’t mind Ross. Because he’s right, John, Arthur, Dutch, the whole gang, are murderers. They kill, often without remorse, and act without care for consequence. As Milton said they ARE savages and they did die savagely. It’s hard to argue they didn’t earn their fates. But some were innocent, Abagail, Jack and the other ‘civilian’ members weren’t so bad, but the adults were complicit 100%. Does it justify everything? No. But he’s certainly the lesser evil compared to the destruction wrought by the Van Der Lindes and O’driscolls
32:00 onwards. damn your script writing is good.
Underrated Video, 667th Sub btw
(666 SUBS 😨😨😨😨😨😨😨😨😨😨😨😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😥😥😥😥😥😥😥)
👀
Just want to point out that the song that starts playing when Sadie first fires her gun sounds just like Triggernometry from the first game. Even the little guitar lick at the beginning!