Alot of people mistake flex with USEABLE articulation. An antirock type sway bar is a MUST up front. The rear has debates but if you're driving the jeep on the street or at any speed other than 10+mph use a damn sway bar in the rear. Either get an antirock type sway bar or just longer links but dont just take it off. They are designed to work TOGETHER..
Great video, much kudos for someone having the guts to share a hypothesis then testing that hypothesis out and making a conclusion and explaining why. I definitely appreciated the debates that raged on in the comments and feel like I was now hearing possibilities that I hadn't previously considered so thanx to everyone there. It's too bad there are some adult babies who displayed a temper tantrum and the thought of someone else sharing what he knows that weren't in line with the video, I would never want to offroad or share a beer afterwards with people like that they tend to be angry belligerent types and add nothing of value to an Intelligent debate. Again thanks for making the video and your rig looks awesome.
I've been wondering about this subject for quite a while, so I definitely appreciate the demonstration. The rear axle of my TJ seems to articulate very well with the stock sway bar. I'm on a 2.5" Teraflex suspension lift with 1.25" of Teraflex body lift and 33's; I added the body lift because I wanted to make room for the tires to have the stock 4" up travel without getting into a bunch of expensive suspension geometry stuff. I'm on a limited family-guy budget and this is mainly a camping/hunting rig for the PNW forest and desert. I have JKS disconnects up front and I've been debating whether I need to do anything more in the rear beyond changing out the bumps to the proper length for my lift, which I've done since they were part of the kit. I've been wondering if there would be any advantage, considering my modest build and driving, to putting an Anti-rock torsion bar in the rear in place of the stock sway. I'm not trying to do super aggressive rock-crawling, but some of the trails I drive can get pretty nasty in the winter; and once you're there in front of whatever you have to go through and over to get back out, well.... you're there.
I live in the PNW to and I know exactly what you mean. Some of the mountain trails out hear are literally do or die and whatever is in front of you is just where you’re going unless you want to back up 3 miles and do multiple obstacles in reverse.
Hey thanks man appreciate that valuable info. I’m running a Jeep Gladiator with 3.5 lift on 35’s. I’ve done a few big trails in Uwharrie and going down to the Gulches of Indian Mound next week and wanted to disconnect my front sway bar for the first time. And was wanting to know if disconnecting the rear sway bar would benefit. Guess I won’t be doing that.
This shows that leaving your rear connected forces the front to make up for that lack of rear articulation. When the rear gets disconnected, the articulation is more evenly shared between both front and rear axles.
@@causeuncause4059 I’m thinking that with the rear bars connected on the ramp it forced the front to stretch more giving it that extra travel up the ramps, could also be that at that angle the sway bar has extended right out and forced the axle down, but like he said, in the real world no rear bars would flex much better
All I can add is that our basically stock 91 XJ would get stuck diagonally crossing a mild wash or a cow trail with the Rear Sway bar on and would keep the tires on the ground and go with it off. So we keep the front and remove the rear sway bar.
This is actually very smart. This is a weird video because from an engineers point of view, it doesn't make any sense why he gets less flex without the sway bar. This sway bar is made to pull the other wheel up when the first wheel hits a bump to keep it stabilized. His is probably shot
Good video, thanks, my question is I have an AntiRock in the front and was going to install one in the rear, not a disconnect actually a torsion bar style to allow more travel. Do you think you would have had the same results as having a rear sway bar installed or better results?
I've played with the Anti Rock sway bars, and it is basically Best of Both Worlds for racing.... cornering and rock climbing. if you just doing rock crawling zero sway bar in the front with a rear sway bar is my advice. Then you have the big thick front sway bar connection for on the street performance
I know this may be apples and oranges, but would a heavier sway bar on the rear of a RAM REBEL (with air suspension) have positive or negative effects when off roading (not rock crawling).
Just came across this and great way to describe it. I have read somewhere that some folks remove the front sway bar and only keep the rear and achieve more flex. Would you know if that’s true?
You need proper bump stops is what you discovered. When your suspension is properly set up your tire should never touch the fender, you need to extend your bump stops to the correct length then try again, I bet you get way past 27.
It is Bump Stoped, just because you hear that tire doesn't mean it's not. 😁 I stopped because it picked the Tire off the ground. How would a bump stop or a bigger pump stop change that?
I believe bump stop would only reduce wheel travel. It gives you no gained clearance what so ever. Only thing it does it prevent wheel from bottoming out or rubbing. He went as far as far could go lol
@@jeepstyle4054 you need to bumb stopped correctly, not just whatever bumpstops you find. Unless I'm crazy, it looks like you right rear tire is eating the fender, Is that not the case? A tire should never touch fender.
@@brianbarranco7986 a *proper bumb stop would stop the tire from contacting the body. Jeep would have kept going up the ramp if the suspension was set up right. Never in the history of rock crawling had anyone installed a away bar for an upgrade. This is just bad information...
@@neilviegas6646 we r going to have to agree to disagree lol. bump stops restricts articulation in my eyes. (no expert) but in my mind say u have 6" bump stop ur wheels n frame can only go to that point. so if u can get away with safely having a 3" bump stop u actually gain 3" of articulation. the only thing i think u could do to increase is maybe bigger lift or dropping wheel size might give u bit more wiggle room or possibly even spacers on wheels or combo. these are my thoughts and opinions just saying something to think about.
I could be wrong but I’m not sure I agree with the conclusion in the video or the comments about bump stops. I think removing the rear bar under incline condition causes the average lift in the rear to decrease because you don’t have the less compressed spring helping the loaded side. As the suspension is a system, you’d want to compensate spring rate and travel when removing anti sway. The limiting factor should be increased bank of the body and rollover.
With rear sway bars connected your driver side rear wheel is in the air when you're on the ramp. When you remove the rear sway bar that wheel is still connected and driving the rig forward. If you set the rear bump stops up precisely you'd get more or less the same result, if not better than with sway bars . The rear sway is just acting like a very long travel progressive bump stop.
When people try to claim ifs is just as capable as a solid front offroader I cant help but laugh. One of This man's tires are reaching 6 feet in the air while the rest are perfectly stable on the ground. Thats a level of fun you dont understand. The guy would need at least a step ladder to get back in on perfectly level ground. Crazy.
Sorry my man. I agree you went further on a ramp. However I have ripped the actually bolt out of the upper bolt mount with rear connected. I have a diesel gladiator. So there are benefits.
Shouldn't you test it in forward and reverse? I think if you want to test overall flex you should probably test on the ramp forward and reverse and then average the two RTI numbers. I'm not saying you shouldn't have your rear sway bar on. It's probably not safe to have it off.
Great video. I’d like to see you either try different size bars and or change the motion ratio on the sway bar and check for various changes it produces. It would also be great to have lighter and or heavier spring rates with different sway bar tests. I know it’s a lot of work but don’t make me do it! Lol
Oh you're right when you put it that way there is definitely tuning that can be accomplished if what you doing for sure.. that might be the best comment on this entire situation with this video it has been a roller coaster
Jeepstyle i work with suspension on race cars(circle, drag and road race). I can rate springs, valve shocks and pull down cars to get wheel loads. We just ventured into off roading personally in the desert and bought a Jeep this past week we’re decking out. But I’d love to get involved helping with anything I can off road wise. Seems slower paced and more relaxed than being at a racetrack. Anyways enjoyed the video and took a look under our 04 TJ on the lift now getting a lift as we speak and was wondering if there’s a sliding sway bar for end links to change motion ratio. I think I may want to start spring rating various builds if there’s a market for it of course. I feel there’s a lot of unexplained things out there. Heck even changing your tire pressure will vary how far you could go up that ramp as well.
@@RaceMentally it's all about finding that perfect compromise, definitely with sway bars to stiff you going to have great handling not so great rock crawling, or articulation you'll be lifting tires. lighter sway bar you lose handling but a little bit better rock crawling. It's all racing fastest one to find the compromise wins! what lift kit company are you going with? you know rock krawler is definitely proven on the race track..
Jeepstyle we just went with a basic kit. We’re not going to be doing any hard core off roading. It’s our dune recovery vehicle and border road cruiser. Just a rough country 3.25 kit, lowers, track bars I built front and rear, sway bar disconnect on front, bumpers front and rear, 9k winch, 20” and 50” kc lights, 33s with 17s and all new tie rods. It’s what you’d probably call a mall crawler haha. Just finished it actually today from stock last week to a sweet ride for the wife. She’s happy and I’m happy it’s over with. Props to the guys who do it on jack stands in their driveways(haha crazy)!
@@RaceMentally well alignment shop don't understand that when you lift something the axles move. The rear axle moves to the passenger side the front axle moved to the driver side you really need adjustable track bars and when you're driving down the road at 70 miles an hour that's when you need a good lift kit just do me a favor and do some simple cross measurements and make sure your axles are in the center of your vehicle! That will make a huge difference.
You can view it that way if you want or you can learn.... The bump starts are set with the sway bar but I'm sure that extra half inch of bumpstop definitely would make up 17" on the flex ramp... Come on down my ramp is there for you to try it yourself.
@@jeepstyle4054 If you want to run the sway bar offroad, then your bump stops are set correctly. There are pros and cons to running a sway bar offroad. Different wheeling styles/terrains can definitely lead you one way or the other. However, saying people are wrong because they disconnect and they are losing flex because they disconnect is just plain naïve. Take your own advice and "learn" the other side of the coin rather than saying everyone else is wrong because they didn't do it your way.
@@jfw432 You'r 100% correct I just bought rear disconnecting sway bar and I'm setting up my jeep for my needs .. Ramps look cool but really don't represent trails because 3 out 4 tires usually are not flat on the ground
In the video looks like shock ext length is maxed keeping your driverside tire from staying on the ground!I think when you removed it it got more flex which caused your driver side shock stem to max out and keep your rear driver side tire from staying on the ground while climbing the ramp! something to take into consideration! if you had longer shocks it may have allowed the tire to drop! next time you do a ramp test, check your shock shaft length protruding!! If its maxed out you'll know the answer!! might be a shock extension length problem !!!!
Hi there. First off, awesome rig. Second, I have a few questions: Im a little confused if are you're advocating not removing the swaybar completely or advocating not disconnecting the rear links from the sway bar? As a person who is considering buying a rear disconnect system (to go with my front disconnect system), im more curious about the advantage of having the rear links disconnected, while offroading, for the additional articulation/travel you get like the front does (when disconnected). My thought is; if my Jeep crawls over obstacles so well and keeps me level inside, (while my front sway bar is disconnected), I would get even more articulation and even less body roll if my rear is disconnected. This is a big advantage for me and possibly worth the investment in the rear disconnect system but also on the fence because my Jeep is already so capable with just the front sway bar disconnected that im wondering if its even worth it. Thoughts?
So I disconnect my front stock sway bar like normal. I leave my rear stock sway bar connected. and it is more stable, the body is going to be more level and I was able to crawl further with the rear Connected... I do not disconnect my rear... I was showing how much less capable the Jeep is if you do remove your rear sway bar..
@@jeepstyle4054 ok, that's what I thought. Good info. Like I said, my jeep is more than capable with the front disconnected that im having a hard time justifying buying rear disconnect system unless I can prove a clear advantage of having the rear disconnected too.
Well basically the rear sway bar is pretty small and what it's going to do is slow all the weight loading the rear of the Jeep and displaces it better which provides a Jeep to be more level and Prince rear from bottoming out as fast.
@@jeepstyle4054 Max, you are correct here and Mr jeepstyle is wrong. Pull off your sway bars front and back for off roading, make sure your wheels are bump stopped correctly and you will be unstoppable. Remember to put them back on for road driving.
@@neilviegas6646 hey buddy could you make a video to prove yourself? that would be really helpful and just because my tire rub the fender doesn't mean it wasn't hitting a bump stop, my tire came off the ground....
I actually think you went up less because your swaybar was preventing the rear tires from hitting the fender. I think with the proper amount of bump stop you would have actually went further with no swaybar.
@@DEANFREEMAN429924 Joe, I think you and I are the only ones here that know how suspensions work... Instead of bump stops OP is using his swaybar as bumps. Lol I should start a UA-cam channel 😂
I have tested with the front and rear the front one Result was it needs to be disconnected, The rear was about the same results but more stable on the road and trails.
Yes, but made to be a compromised somewhere in the middle of on-road ability and Offroad ability for racing applications... I personally run stock front sway bar stock rear sway bar and I disconnect the front. Best on Road ability and off-road with the front disconnected. That's how I do it.
I'm new to this. If you test the front-end flex with & without front sway bar going forward up a ramp, why wouldn't you test the rear flex by backing up the ramp?
@@MrMrsregor - I should've been a little more clear with my original question, which is this: Wouldn't it also be important to know how much flex there is with the back axle? I would be inclined to think that the amount of rear-flex relates directly to the threshhold of when a vehicle twist, and to balance (e.g. The more rear-flex, the less vehicle twist, and better balance). Like I said, I'm new to this and trying to learn.
@@davidyergensen4509 yea, that makes total sense. I live in the mountains and assume most obstacles are climbing up And seems like that is what this guy is basing his theory on. He talks about weight transfer as your vehicle starts to climb. the weight transferring to the rear (vehicle is pointing up into the air and center line of gravity has changed) now over loads the rear suspension and now has more weight than it holds comfortably (since most of the vehicle weight is resting on rear suspension), now your back end starts to squat and lean over cause the suspension is softer than it should be (for that much weight) and you will lift a rear wheel cause you are leaning over too much. All of this problem starts when the weight is transferred to the rear as you go up an obstacle.
@@davidyergensen4509 yea man. We r learning together, i have been building my own rigs and off-roading for years, but still love to learn and see how other people solve design and engineering problems
In a way no one is right or wrong on this debatable topic. It depends (imo) on what your doing with your Jeep. If one just does low speed climbing I would tend to agree no sway bar is best. However most of us do a little of both climbing/trail running/overland. In this video I don’t think he took into consideration that his Jeep flexes better in the front and running rear sway bar connected forced the front to flex more. So for his Jeep what he’s saying is true. For other Jeeps depending on setup and usage maybe not so much so.
I run no sway bar in rear mostly for the ride. It takes bumps and drops significantly smoother (doesn’t rock body). Articulation for my jeep will always be limited by shocks
@-DOPE- well the flex at the end is about the same. The rear sway bar slows down and controls the body weight transfer. Pulling up on the left rear tire, cause the body's waight to keep it on the ground longer. Without the bar the body just falls on the right rear tire and prematurely lifting the left tire.
@-DOPE- oh for sure so this is what I'm thinking... I'm going to trim the fender more so it can still go the same travel and then add bump stops and see if it transfers that weigh? So we'll see.
It really has got me around, it's been good and if you watch Kingdom krawl some of my videos I've really punished it... but I am running rockjock 60 rear big bearing, and the core 44 front with RCV shafts.. very excited to order the rock jock 60 front and rockjock 70 rear for the upcoming year..
Hold on, if it can go further off road, why do most off road factory vehicles have a disconnecting sway bar?? I believe the engineers had this figured out for a lot longer than others
The front sway bars on Rubicon's have front disconnecting sway bars but not rears. What they proved in this video is that its best to have your front swayers disconnected and your rear sway bars connected for best off-road travel
Why mod anything? What were the engineers’s design parameters and how have they changed when you, say, remove a front sway bar? How does one decide without thinking through the problem?
Embarrassing, that dude needs to set his rear bumps, it matters as far as his "test" is concerned and made the "results" mean nothing. I'd wager with a properly set bump stop it would score higher than w sway bar, he never even lifted a tire on that 2nd attempt because his shits set up wrong and was running tires into inner fenders.
This has to be the most misleading crap I have ever seen. The first drive up the ramp, the rear tire is clearly off the ground for a while before he stops. The second attempt, the tire bounces slightly making it more obvious it is off the ground. Completely a joke.
Your not proving anything. Sorry but your ramp does not demonstrate true rock crawling situations. This proves nothing but that in a controlled test with no variables this is the case. There are so many different variables like bump stop length, shock down travel, wheelbase, articulating both axles not just one, long arm kit vs mid arm..... this may not be the case for all situations just this one. My gladiator is much smoother without the rear sway bar. Also it was ripped off last time I went out due to to much articulation. Seriously please show me a rock buggy with sway bars. Why not lift opposing front and rear tires evenly until the opposing wheel comes off the ground? That would show up and down travel with both axles being articulated? That would be a real world test.
Well the reason why the flex ramp gives you a great test. Is when you're off road you're usually going uphill. Or the front is going to climb first and it's going to transfer weight and load the back of the Jeep. A buggy bouncer is night and day, it has anti dive, anti squat, it changes so many angles for traction during acceleration. A red dot buggy that is a completely different animal as well these JK's or minimum 5000 pound or plus vehicles that little bit of body control to keep the weight transfer to the rear slower is beneficial.
Jeepstyle thanks for the reply. I do agree in many situations this test is great. Most of the trails I run are as you say uphill. However many man made playgrounds are not. At Hollister hills for example this test would not apply to about 30% of the obstacles. On the rubicon again most are like this ramp but many are actually downhill. The direction you run the trail matters. Also what about wheelbase? The longer the wheelbase the steeper the angle has to be to transfer the weight. It would be great to see a jl, a jlu and a gladiator all tested. I have a aftermath video of what can happen if you push the articulation on a gladiator. You rip the sway bar mounts right off the frame. So remove it or loose it. You can not disconnect the rear sway bar and leave it in place on a gladiator. It would be great if the rear sway bar was electronic as well. Then you can disconnect which ever one for the situation.
jeep guys are all the same lol buy a jeep spend a bunch of cash to make their shitty jeep half decent and still suck off road because their designs are so dated...L
hahaha toronto6ix doesn't understand customization. Jeeps are good for tight trails and rocks. Be laughing at him when he has his long ass suburban stuck in-between some narrow trees and cant open his doors to get out or bumper stuck on rocks hahahaha duuuuuche
@@Toronto6ix TJ mine is actually older 2001 TJ as well. i was just curious your preference of vehicle and why? iv owned quite a few different rides n really like my little jeep. had an el camino with super swampers and a bunch of other rides but jeep is so customizable like a swiss army knife of rides lol.
Fix your rear bump clearance then do the same test again so you can get the correct numbers.
Agreed .. Maybe he just wanted a picture with his tire up in the air because he sure in hell didn't set his rear bump
Thanks for sharing. It was good meeting you.
thanks so much for the sway bar.... all this was good because of you guys!
Alot of people mistake flex with USEABLE articulation. An antirock type sway bar is a MUST up front. The rear has debates but if you're driving the jeep on the street or at any speed other than 10+mph use a damn sway bar in the rear. Either get an antirock type sway bar or just longer links but dont just take it off. They are designed to work TOGETHER..
Great video, much kudos for someone having the guts to share a hypothesis then testing that hypothesis out and making a conclusion and explaining why.
I definitely appreciated the debates that raged on in the comments and feel like I was now hearing possibilities that I hadn't previously considered so thanx to everyone there. It's too bad there are some adult babies who displayed a temper tantrum and the thought of someone else sharing what he knows that weren't in line with the video, I would never want to offroad or share a beer afterwards with people like that they tend to be angry belligerent types and add nothing of value to an Intelligent debate. Again thanks for making the video and your rig looks awesome.
Hey man man 100% why my Offroad group is small
Excellent video and explanation.
Wouldnt it have went up further if the rear tire didnt contact the body?
I've been wondering about this subject for quite a while, so I definitely appreciate the demonstration. The rear axle of my TJ seems to articulate very well with the stock sway bar. I'm on a 2.5" Teraflex suspension lift with 1.25" of Teraflex body lift and 33's; I added the body lift because I wanted to make room for the tires to have the stock 4" up travel without getting into a bunch of expensive suspension geometry stuff. I'm on a limited family-guy budget and this is mainly a camping/hunting rig for the PNW forest and desert.
I have JKS disconnects up front and I've been debating whether I need to do anything more in the rear beyond changing out the bumps to the proper length for my lift, which I've done since they were part of the kit. I've been wondering if there would be any advantage, considering my modest build and driving, to putting an Anti-rock torsion bar in the rear in place of the stock sway.
I'm not trying to do super aggressive rock-crawling, but some of the trails I drive can get pretty nasty in the winter; and once you're there in front of whatever you have to go through and over to get back out, well.... you're there.
I live in the PNW to and I know exactly what you mean. Some of the mountain trails out hear are literally do or die and whatever is in front of you is just where you’re going unless you want to back up 3 miles and do multiple obstacles in reverse.
Hey thanks man appreciate that valuable info. I’m running a Jeep Gladiator with 3.5 lift on 35’s. I’ve done a few big trails in Uwharrie and going down to the Gulches of Indian Mound next week and wanted to disconnect my front sway bar for the first time. And was wanting to know if disconnecting the rear sway bar would benefit. Guess I won’t be doing that.
Interesting, thanks for showing this.
Thanks. Answer I was looking for.
This shows that leaving your rear connected forces the front to make up for that lack of rear articulation. When the rear gets disconnected, the articulation is more evenly shared between both front and rear axles.
Solid advice. Thanks.
Wow!! 17" more with the links connected. So basically, disconnect the fronts.....keep the rears connected. Thanks for the demonstration.
This is not how suspensions work. This is completely backwards.
@@neilviegas6646 what to you mean?
@@neilviegas6646 what to you mean?
@@causeuncause4059 I’m thinking that with the rear bars connected on the ramp it forced the front to stretch more giving it that extra travel up the ramps, could also be that at that angle the sway bar has extended right out and forced the axle down, but like he said, in the real world no rear bars would flex much better
Thanx for the time!
All I can add is that our basically stock 91 XJ would get stuck diagonally crossing a mild wash or a cow trail with the Rear Sway bar on and would keep the tires on the ground and go with it off. So we keep the front and remove the rear sway bar.
This is actually very smart. This is a weird video because from an engineers point of view, it doesn't make any sense why he gets less flex without the sway bar. This sway bar is made to pull the other wheel up when the first wheel hits a bump to keep it stabilized. His is probably shot
Here in Australia in our land cruisers and patrols we only disconnect one side in rear sway would love to see you doing that in this case
If you disconnect only one side it will cause the connected side to flip around backwards
thanks for experimenting for me lol. nice work
Good video, thanks, my question is I have an AntiRock in the front and was going to install one in the rear, not a disconnect actually a torsion bar style to allow more travel. Do you think you would have had the same results as having a rear sway bar installed or better results?
I've played with the Anti Rock sway bars, and it is basically Best of Both Worlds for racing.... cornering and rock climbing. if you just doing rock crawling zero sway bar in the front with a rear sway bar is my advice.
Then you have the big thick front sway bar connection for on the street performance
This is an awesome example, I won’t see if an anti rock sway bar would be better on the rear rather than a regular sway bar?
I know this may be apples and oranges, but would a heavier sway bar on the rear of a RAM REBEL (with air suspension) have positive or negative effects when off roading (not rock crawling).
Just came across this and great way to describe it. I have read somewhere that some folks remove the front sway bar and only keep the rear and achieve more flex. Would you know if that’s true?
You need proper bump stops is what you discovered. When your suspension is properly set up your tire should never touch the fender, you need to extend your bump stops to the correct length then try again, I bet you get way past 27.
It is Bump Stoped, just because you hear that tire doesn't mean it's not. 😁 I stopped because it picked the Tire off the ground. How would a bump stop or a bigger pump stop change that?
I believe bump stop would only reduce wheel travel. It gives you no gained clearance what so ever. Only thing it does it prevent wheel from bottoming out or rubbing. He went as far as far could go lol
@@jeepstyle4054 you need to bumb stopped correctly, not just whatever bumpstops you find. Unless I'm crazy, it looks like you right rear tire is eating the fender, Is that not the case? A tire should never touch fender.
@@brianbarranco7986 a *proper bumb stop would stop the tire from contacting the body. Jeep would have kept going up the ramp if the suspension was set up right. Never in the history of rock crawling had anyone installed a away bar for an upgrade. This is just bad information...
@@neilviegas6646 we r going to have to agree to disagree lol. bump stops restricts articulation in my eyes. (no expert) but in my mind say u have 6" bump stop ur wheels n frame can only go to that point. so if u can get away with safely having a 3" bump stop u actually gain 3" of articulation. the only thing i think u could do to increase is maybe bigger lift or dropping wheel size might give u bit more wiggle room or possibly even spacers on wheels or combo. these are my thoughts and opinions just saying something to think about.
I could be wrong but I’m not sure I agree with the conclusion in the video or the comments about bump stops. I think removing the rear bar under incline condition causes the average lift in the rear to decrease because you don’t have the less compressed spring helping the loaded side. As the suspension is a system, you’d want to compensate spring rate and travel when removing anti sway. The limiting factor should be increased bank of the body and rollover.
With rear sway bars connected your driver side rear wheel is in the air when you're on the ramp. When you remove the rear sway bar that wheel is still connected and driving the rig forward. If you set the rear bump stops up precisely you'd get more or less the same result, if not better than with sway bars . The rear sway is just acting like a very long travel progressive bump stop.
Yeah hit bust your bubble but the tires stayed on the ground the whole time watch it again
I have 2.8 CRD JKU, but why exhaust sounds are different? may I ask what you've done to your exhaust?
My exhaust has a Magnaflow "Cherry Bomb" type Muffler and then behind the axle as a small Flowmaster.
Will a incorrect length sway bar link cause a stiffer ride ? If it’s to short ?
do you also believe this to be true with a leaf spring vehicle like cherokee xj ?
The bigger question is why’d you remove the beard? That’s where all your superpowers resides!
Miss ya bro!
What’s your opinion on the rear sway bar on a lifted yj ? Needed or not ?
When people try to claim ifs is just as capable as a solid front offroader I cant help but laugh. One of This man's tires are reaching 6 feet in the air while the rest are perfectly stable on the ground. Thats a level of fun you dont understand. The guy would need at least a step ladder to get back in on perfectly level ground. Crazy.
Sorry my man. I agree you went further on a ramp. However I have ripped the actually bolt out of the upper bolt mount with rear connected. I have a diesel gladiator. So there are benefits.
Ok so would you go with just a front Antirock and not a rear
Shouldn't you test it in forward and reverse?
I think if you want to test overall flex you should probably test on the ramp forward and reverse and then average the two RTI numbers.
I'm not saying you shouldn't have your rear sway bar on. It's probably not safe to have it off.
Great video. I’d like to see you either try different size bars and or change the motion ratio on the sway bar and check for various changes it produces. It would also be great to have lighter and or heavier spring rates with different sway bar tests. I know it’s a lot of work but don’t make me do it! Lol
Oh you're right when you put it that way there is definitely tuning that can be accomplished if what you doing for sure.. that might be the best comment on this entire situation with this video it has been a roller coaster
Jeepstyle i work with suspension on race cars(circle, drag and road race). I can rate springs, valve shocks and pull down cars to get wheel loads. We just ventured into off roading personally in the desert and bought a Jeep this past week we’re decking out. But I’d love to get involved helping with anything I can off road wise. Seems slower paced and more relaxed than being at a racetrack. Anyways enjoyed the video and took a look under our 04 TJ on the lift now getting a lift as we speak and was wondering if there’s a sliding sway bar for end links to change motion ratio. I think I may want to start spring rating various builds if there’s a market for it of course. I feel there’s a lot of unexplained things out there. Heck even changing your tire pressure will vary how far you could go up that ramp as well.
@@RaceMentally it's all about finding that perfect compromise, definitely with sway bars to stiff you going to have great handling not so great rock crawling, or articulation you'll be lifting tires. lighter sway bar you lose handling but a little bit better rock crawling.
It's all racing fastest one to find the compromise wins! what lift kit company are you going with? you know rock krawler is definitely proven on the race track..
Jeepstyle we just went with a basic kit. We’re not going to be doing any hard core off roading. It’s our dune recovery vehicle and border road cruiser. Just a rough country 3.25 kit, lowers, track bars I built front and rear, sway bar disconnect on front, bumpers front and rear, 9k winch, 20” and 50” kc lights, 33s with 17s and all new tie rods. It’s what you’d probably call a mall crawler haha. Just finished it actually today from stock last week to a sweet ride for the wife. She’s happy and I’m happy it’s over with. Props to the guys who do it on jack stands in their driveways(haha crazy)!
@@RaceMentally well alignment shop don't understand that when you lift something the axles move. The rear axle moves to the passenger side the front axle moved to the driver side you really need adjustable track bars and when you're driving down the road at 70 miles an hour that's when you need a good lift kit just do me a favor and do some simple cross measurements and make sure your axles are in the center of your vehicle! That will make a huge difference.
What size tires does he have in this video?
You just proved that you don't understand how to set bumpstops. To each their own but this is bolt on mentality vs proper set up.
You can view it that way if you want or you can learn.... The bump starts are set with the sway bar but I'm sure that extra half inch of bumpstop definitely would make up 17" on the flex ramp... Come on down my ramp is there for you to try it yourself.
@@jeepstyle4054 If you want to run the sway bar offroad, then your bump stops are set correctly. There are pros and cons to running a sway bar offroad. Different wheeling styles/terrains can definitely lead you one way or the other. However, saying people are wrong because they disconnect and they are losing flex because they disconnect is just plain naïve. Take your own advice and "learn" the other side of the coin rather than saying everyone else is wrong because they didn't do it your way.
Thank you very much ....
@@jfw432 You'r 100% correct I just bought rear disconnecting sway bar and I'm setting up my jeep for my needs .. Ramps look cool but really don't represent trails because 3 out 4 tires usually are not flat on the ground
Wow what’s up with your rear diff? No drive shaft?
Hey man what exhaust are you running? I haven’t seen anything like it on a Jeep
It's a custom exhaust that I created in my shop. With help from OCD
Is it the same for any vehicle?
In the video looks like shock ext length is maxed keeping your driverside tire from staying on the ground!I think when you removed it it got more flex which caused your driver side shock stem to max out and keep your rear driver side tire from staying on the ground while climbing the ramp! something to take into consideration! if you had longer shocks it may have allowed the tire to drop! next time you do a ramp test, check your shock shaft length protruding!! If its maxed out you'll know the answer!! might be a shock extension length problem !!!!
@@Stackali you're lost!!!
@@Stackali the right side traveled further up raising his drive shaft causing his driver side shock to max out faster it is called physics dipshit
Hi there. First off, awesome rig. Second, I have a few questions: Im a little confused if are you're advocating not removing the swaybar completely or advocating not disconnecting the rear links from the sway bar? As a person who is considering buying a rear disconnect system (to go with my front disconnect system), im more curious about the advantage of having the rear links disconnected, while offroading, for the additional articulation/travel you get like the front does (when disconnected). My thought is; if my Jeep crawls over obstacles so well and keeps me level inside, (while my front sway bar is disconnected), I would get even more articulation and even less body roll if my rear is disconnected. This is a big advantage for me and possibly worth the investment in the rear disconnect system but also on the fence because my Jeep is already so capable with just the front sway bar disconnected that im wondering if its even worth it. Thoughts?
So I disconnect my front stock sway bar like normal. I leave my rear stock sway bar connected. and it is more stable, the body is going to be more level and I was able to crawl further with the rear Connected... I do not disconnect my rear... I was showing how much less capable the Jeep is if you do remove your rear sway bar..
@@jeepstyle4054 ok, that's what I thought. Good info. Like I said, my jeep is more than capable with the front disconnected that im having a hard time justifying buying rear disconnect system unless I can prove a clear advantage of having the rear disconnected too.
Well basically the rear sway bar is pretty small and what it's going to do is slow all the weight loading the rear of the Jeep and displaces it better which provides a Jeep to be more level and Prince rear from bottoming out as fast.
@@jeepstyle4054 Max, you are correct here and Mr jeepstyle is wrong. Pull off your sway bars front and back for off roading, make sure your wheels are bump stopped correctly and you will be unstoppable. Remember to put them back on for road driving.
@@neilviegas6646 hey buddy could you make a video to prove yourself? that would be really helpful and just because my tire rub the fender doesn't mean it wasn't hitting a bump stop, my tire came off the ground....
I actually think you went up less because your swaybar was preventing the rear tires from hitting the fender. I think with the proper amount of bump stop you would have actually went further with no swaybar.
the front right tire was still on the ground, no spin. if it went all the way until the front started spinning, it would be a different result.
Joe Stacks because of improper bump stops. It’s like you didn’t even read the comment
@@DEANFREEMAN429924 Joe, I think you and I are the only ones here that know how suspensions work... Instead of bump stops OP is using his swaybar as bumps. Lol I should start a UA-cam channel 😂
EXACTLY!
Have you done testing with a rear antirock?
I have tested with the front and rear the front one Result was it needs to be disconnected, The rear was about the same results but more stable on the road and trails.
@@jeepstyle4054 I ended up getting them and am very happy with them!
Do currie anti rocks do the same as sway bars do?
Yes, but made to be a compromised somewhere in the middle of on-road ability and Offroad ability for racing applications... I personally run stock front sway bar stock rear sway bar and I disconnect the front. Best on Road ability and off-road with the front disconnected. That's how I do it.
Science!
Bravo
I'm new to this. If you test the front-end flex with & without front sway bar going forward up a ramp, why wouldn't you test the rear flex by backing up the ramp?
cause you dont typically need to know how you jeep climbs rocks backwards. most of the time the obstacles come from the front
@@MrMrsregor - I should've been a little more clear with my original question, which is this: Wouldn't it also be important to know how much flex there is with the back axle? I would be inclined to think that the amount of rear-flex relates directly to the threshhold of when a vehicle twist, and to balance (e.g. The more rear-flex, the less vehicle twist, and better balance). Like I said, I'm new to this and trying to learn.
@@davidyergensen4509 yea, that makes total sense. I live in the mountains and assume most obstacles are climbing up And seems like that is what this guy is basing his theory on. He talks about weight transfer as your vehicle starts to climb. the weight transferring to the rear (vehicle is pointing up into the air and center line of gravity has changed) now over loads the rear suspension and now has more weight than it holds comfortably (since most of the vehicle weight is resting on rear suspension), now your back end starts to squat and lean over cause the suspension is softer than it should be (for that much weight) and you will lift a rear wheel cause you are leaning over too much. All of this problem starts when the weight is transferred to the rear as you go up an obstacle.
@@MrMrsregor - ahhh, thanks for taking the time to explain that for me. That sounds logical and makes sense. I appreciate it. Have a great day.
@@davidyergensen4509 yea man. We r learning together, i have been building my own rigs and off-roading for years, but still love to learn and see how other people solve design and engineering problems
You're so much smarter without that beard! hahaha
Hahaha great
Sway link!
In a way no one is right or wrong on this debatable topic. It depends (imo) on what your doing with your Jeep. If one just does low speed climbing I would tend to agree no sway bar is best. However most of us do a little of both climbing/trail running/overland. In this video I don’t think he took into consideration that his Jeep flexes better in the front and running rear sway bar connected forced the front to flex more. So for his Jeep what he’s saying is true. For other Jeeps depending on setup and usage maybe not so much so.
Call man I’m glad you know what majority of all people do in the world with their stuff
I run no sway bar in rear mostly for the ride. It takes bumps and drops significantly smoother (doesn’t rock body). Articulation for my jeep will always be limited by shocks
❤
Why was it clicking after you removed it
Well the tire was just hitting the inner fender
@-DOPE- well the flex at the end is about the same. The rear sway bar slows down and controls the body weight transfer. Pulling up on the left rear tire, cause the body's waight to keep it on the ground longer. Without the bar the body just falls on the right rear tire and prematurely lifting the left tire.
@-DOPE- oh for sure so this is what I'm thinking... I'm going to trim the fender more so it can still go the same travel and then add bump stops and see if it transfers that weigh? So we'll see.
Shouldn’t you be in 2wd with an open rear diff for a flex test?
Tells us how the trailer is great for setting up bump stops which he obviously did not do😅
Do you have a
Thank you! All these people have no idea what they are talking about.
You are correct Sir, the person who made this video has no idea what he's talking about.
What front and rear axles are you running front and rear?? I see your on a 5x5 lug pattern on 40s? Hows it held up?
It really has got me around, it's been good and if you watch Kingdom krawl some of my videos I've really punished it... but I am running rockjock 60 rear big bearing, and the core 44 front with RCV shafts.. very excited to order the rock jock 60 front and rockjock 70 rear for the upcoming year..
@@jeepstyle4054 what size are your tires?
you have a bump stop issue my friend.tire shouldnt be rubbing should it
Well with the rear sway bar it doesn't rub and that how he runs it so I'd say it's set right
Removing front sway bars and leaving back ones on just might be the best option overall.
Thank you Captain Obvious.
I DARE YOU: try this again with 4x4 engaged.
Hold on, if it can go further off road, why do most off road factory vehicles have a disconnecting sway bar?? I believe the engineers had this figured out for a lot longer than others
The front sway bars on Rubicon's have front disconnecting sway bars but not rears. What they proved in this video is that its best to have your front swayers disconnected and your rear sway bars connected for best off-road travel
Yeah Nathan I apologize if I didn't make it clear that the front sway bar was disconnected.
117in with sway bar lol
Should have just bought a rock bouncer.
The rear sway bar is there for a reason, you can't beat engineering.
Why mod anything? What were the engineers’s design parameters and how have they changed when you, say, remove a front sway bar? How does one decide without thinking through the problem?
why is he walking like if he pooped in his pants?
I can see you can't drive this car to pick up kids in a rainy day.
You know what that would be a fun video... I don't mind getting a little wet.. 😁
Embarrassing, that dude needs to set his rear bumps, it matters as far as his "test" is concerned and made the "results" mean nothing. I'd wager with a properly set bump stop it would score higher than w sway bar, he never even lifted a tire on that 2nd attempt because his shits set up wrong and was running tires into inner fenders.
this was not a scientific test. because i don't like the results.
That is so great!!! 😍😁😂😂
This has to be the most misleading crap I have ever seen. The first drive up the ramp, the rear tire is clearly off the ground for a while before he stops. The second attempt, the tire bounces slightly making it more obvious it is off the ground. Completely a joke.
Hey come on down will do it in person the tire didn’t come off the ground I drove past the ramp silly rabbit
Your not proving anything. Sorry but your ramp does not demonstrate true rock crawling situations. This proves nothing but that in a controlled test with no variables this is the case. There are so many different variables like bump stop length, shock down travel, wheelbase, articulating both axles not just one, long arm kit vs mid arm..... this may not be the case for all situations just this one. My gladiator is much smoother without the rear sway bar. Also it was ripped off last time I went out due to to much articulation. Seriously please show me a rock buggy with sway bars.
Why not lift opposing front and rear tires evenly until the opposing wheel comes off the ground? That would show up and down travel with both axles being articulated? That would be a real world test.
Good story, You got it figured out.
Jeepstyle no I don’t that’s why I suggested more tests.
Well the reason why the flex ramp gives you a great test. Is when you're off road you're usually going uphill. Or the front is going to climb first and it's going to transfer weight and load the back of the Jeep. A buggy bouncer is night and day, it has anti dive, anti squat, it changes so many angles for traction during acceleration. A red dot buggy that is a completely different animal as well these JK's or minimum 5000 pound or plus vehicles that little bit of body control to keep the weight transfer to the rear slower is beneficial.
Jeepstyle thanks for the reply. I do agree in many situations this test is great. Most of the trails I run are as you say uphill. However many man made playgrounds are not. At Hollister hills for example this test would not apply to about 30% of the obstacles. On the rubicon again most are like this ramp but many are actually downhill. The direction you run the trail matters. Also what about wheelbase? The longer the wheelbase the steeper the angle has to be to transfer the weight. It would be great to see a jl, a jlu and a gladiator all tested. I have a aftermath video of what can happen if you push the articulation on a gladiator. You rip the sway bar mounts right off the frame. So remove it or loose it. You can not disconnect the rear sway bar and leave it in place on a gladiator. It would be great if the rear sway bar was electronic as well. Then you can disconnect which ever one for the situation.
jeep guys are all the same lol buy a jeep spend a bunch of cash to make their shitty jeep half decent and still suck off road because their designs are so dated...L
Do you suggest we buy a 70-series land cruiser instead? For the modern design?
hahaha toronto6ix doesn't understand customization. Jeeps are good for tight trails and rocks. Be laughing at him when he has his long ass suburban stuck in-between some narrow trees and cant open his doors to get out or bumper stuck on rocks hahahaha duuuuuche
@@brianbarranco7986 yea I dont understand...jeep goof
As long as you know brian and I don't have a suburban lol what is this 2003...I would never drive a gm they are trash
@@Toronto6ix TJ mine is actually older 2001 TJ as well. i was just curious your preference of vehicle and why? iv owned quite a few different rides n really like my little jeep. had an el camino with super swampers and a bunch of other rides but jeep is so customizable like a swiss army knife of rides lol.