Joachim Meyer's Longsword: Exploring Absetzen
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- Опубліковано 29 вер 2024
- Late last year I had shoulder surgery so haven't been able to put together any videos; I did manage to patch together bits of video footage I'd previously captured to explore and interesting technique; Absetzen.
Meyer's longsword Absetzen is starkly different from the classical version in earlier Liechtenauer glosses... or is it? By unpacking the versions provided across both Longsword and Rappier (and variations on them) we'll explore an approach to both Absetzen, and Meyer's system as a whole, that takes large simple to learn movements and refines them into a more linear system suitable for cut and thrust.
This highlights my own take on Meyer, and is a great way to train, and also makes Meyer quite effective in a variety of contexts.
ARE ARE SO GOOD AT GIVING PERFECTLY CLEAR AND LOGICAL EXPLANATIONS TO THE MOVES, MUCH APPRECIATED!!
love the video as always.
I have often played myself with taking each winding thrust action and combining a muscular support from your body by associating a strike... like a slight Unterhau in a wind to ochs, for instance.
i find this really helps control over the opponents blade, and much better edge alignment , but also much better extended structures, so practically speaaking much more range. and more ability to find an opportunity, it can also help to create more opposition, having more closed lines.
we started doing this kind of stuff in the days where we didn't have fencing masks yet but wanted to work with winding (silly, i know, but 24 years ago things were different) but we would target armpits in steaaad of the face, which is more tricky to pull off, this then meant we needed to do biomechanically more complex winding which really helps to build the skills to be effective at straight thrusts to the face and simple hengen techniques that, at first glance, don't require such more complex biomechanics.
so very similar veign.
Thanks!
As always, thanks for the observations/feedback; it means a lot. And you're quite right of course.
We used to do exactly the same kind of maskless training when I first started fencing 12 or so years back - targeting shoulders and armpits in exactly the same way.Of course it introduces artefacts to your fencing, but also great for developing control :)
Fantastic breakdown, Daniel, these videos are really appreciated
Thank you! I'm glad folks get something out of them :)
Thank you so much -- I've been trying to describe just this idea for awhile now and it's great to hear it articulated and pictured so coherently! (We're one of those ALL THE BOOKS KdF clubs.)
Thanks! All-the-book-KdF is the Best!!! :) Glad you found this useful.
I wonder if Meyer emphasized a cutting version of the absetzen for longsword to avoid thrusting with that weapon, since he mentions thrusting is frowned upon when he is writing. It seems to be more permissible with the rapier?
You're almost certainly right about this!
The way you put together this video is amazing, the attention to detail is crazy
Feed the algorithm
Good video!
We had the same approach in kendo, starting from broad motions and then progressively narrowing them to fencing style movements.
Interesting! I suspect it's not uncommon in a lot of training systems.
Fantastic video!
Thanks. That’s high praise coming from you.
Sweat is weakness leaving the body.
🤣🤣 clearly a lot of weakness 😁
WOW, what a video! Thank you so much! I am a very beginner (noob) but the part from 4:18 is very-very useful.
Thanks! I'm glad you could find something useful in the video! :)
Excellent video, thank you!
Thank you! Even if it makes people think about things for a few moments, it's worth it :)
wonderful
I found the bigger absetzen a very good set up for oben abnehmen.
When the Zwerch is struck from a bind it often forces the opponent to overcomit to a parry propelling the oben abnehmen and opening up the other side.
Choosing one over the other is more of a distance thing for me. When I'm further away the tight absetzen is really all there is, as the cut would often be to short. But when in Krieg already they cut is a really good option, as a thrust would never land. To safely strike to another opening, I somehow need to build up pressure and the cut from the bind is perfect for that.
In the end it just narrows down to the 3 wunder.
Your videos are little gems of knowledge !
Thank you! :)
You spelled abstinence wrong
Amazing video ! Thanks.
I loved that.
Meyer is the best way to learn systematically and refine the basics.
Absolutely amazing video. Once more a proof to grind the basics again and again
Thanks; and you’re quite right - a solid foundation is the key to fencing
This is great!
That's a great video. Well thought through and useful. Thanks.
Thanks! :)
Another great video. Thanks Dan.
Thanks :)
Hope your recovery is going well!
Slowly getting there - back to fencing by July... hopefully :D
I studied shotokan karate for 9 years and we never once argued or over analyzed our movements, this is the one thing in HEMA i dont like, stop nitpicking the form and just fight, its a martial art after all
I agree up to a point, though coming from a jujitsu and judo background I also think there are elements of form that are essential to pulling off a technique.
Now when it comes to fencing, I know and have trained with fencers who literally just fence and never focus on the details who are amazing - in fact they've been ranked in the top 10 worldwide.
On the other hand, the majority of fencers who've made the top 10 (myself included) also focus a lot on on form and precision and all the details.
In terms of those details, I don't think there is anything in fencing that should take more than about 5 minutes or so to explain - which is my all of my technique videos are around 5 minutes long.
If it takes longer than that, then people are way overthinking it!
TL;DR: I agree - principles should be simple, but some of them are important so should be called out. However PRACTICE is more important than TALK when it comes to all fighting :)
Well, it is quite quintessential to Hema. As the transmission has been broken (for most disciplines, even for few centuries), and given the nature of the sources we are building back the form again, you cannot avoid that. Shotokan Karate, as much as most asian martial arts, have a direct, uninterrupted transmission, with each master learning directly from the generation before him, ending up in generations of refinement and continuous evolution of the arts. At each moment in history, these martial arts are in tune with their time.
While Hema is trying to understand how people did things with minimum clues, and from a society we are not part of, with subtetly we'll never be able to grasp properly (and I'm an archaeologist, so I have to insist on that point)
The approach is therefore VERY different