Thank you for taking the time to assemble a critique. As I said in the prior version, please let me know if you'd prefer further argumentation as commentary here, or in video form. I consider some of the counter-argument to be steel-man, but others to be (accidental) straw-man. As an aside, for those who may have gotten a garbled or emotive take on the position staked out in the original video, critique of Cold Steel should very obiously not be taken to imply disdain for Hutton, and certainly not for "Hutton Enjoyers." I would ask that those on the sidelines have the courtesy not to assign me responsibility for positions which I have regularly and explicitly disavowed.
Thanks for your response Russ. I’m happy for you to discuss in whatever format suits you best and would be keen to hear your views, particularly if I’ve inadvertently misrepresented anything. I think it’s a useful discussion to have overall, as I don’t see the need for any perceived divide in the sabre community over this
@@DanielPopeScholarVictoria I don't know why there would be, except insofar as one often needs to don a hazmat suit before "entering the comments section." In proper debate format, yours would be the counter-argument, and mine the first rebuttal? I'll work on a video for same. [edit: spelling. I lack YT Premiere, so my rebuttal won't be as polished as yours, but should have something soon).
@@russmitchellmovement online communities often attract unnecessarily nagative participants, sadly. In debate terms I haven't really provided a counter-argument, purely direct rebuttale to yours. I do have a brief follow up video in the works highighting what I do think the weak points are in cold steel, as well as clarifying some small points from the first video, following a few comments from colleagues and ofther fencers, which may make my overall position on hutton clearer, which may affect your preferred responses.
I watched the recent video by Russ and found it informative as a non-Hutton and non-Sabre fencer trying to get into sabre fencing. I also found yours, Pope, to be an interesting counter-argument and response, this sort of thing always helps me learn. Also, love my little "Go Josh" in your Swordplay sabre footage, it was a fun fight to watch!
I'm new to Hutton, the impression that I have gotten is that his style was specifically designed to counter the way that rebels in India were sword fighting.
Russ' video was one that left a very sour taste in my mouth, as it reminded me a lot of toxic, unproductive fencing teachers I've had in the past; ones who seek to present a pseudo-dogmatic "right way to do things", while necessarily suppressing a more constructive and open-minded approach, fuelled especially by multiple perspectives on a given technique. My past teachers' targets normally centered around constant mocking of Meyerists as "flowery and impractical", teaching us students a hyper-canonical interpretation of early KDF sources. I think there comes a point where playful cross-system rivalries devolve into pointless dunking on martial systems one simply doesn't like; I believe Russ' video was an example of the latter, though I strongly suspect he would disagree with my perspective. Regardless, it produces an unhealthy environment in which to learn as a community. I appreciate the fact that you took the time to demonstrate the issues in Russ' video, as such easily accessible visual demonstrations serve to counteract more harmful elements within the historical fencing community :)
Well yes, I'd consider that prima-facie character assassination, so yes, I'd obviously disagree. (and I"m sorry you had a bad experience with the KDF community)
High Octave is simply a necessity. A fencer doesn't always have the luxury to choose the ideal defence for a given situation. Following a failed strike, the opponent may beat down our sword, at which point the only quick defence to his immediate reposte is a hanging parry (High Octave). It's undoubtedly a very weak position, with poor offensive utility, nonetheless it must be practiced, and employed, when the situation requires it. It's not a position one would opt to fight from, but that's why Hutton called it an "auxiliary" parry. It is simply sometimes the only option available.
This video is not a criticism it just shows the arguments to be utter hogwash as politely as possible. If you eviscerate someone smiling doesnt make it better.
Many thing to say to the way Russ teach sabre to a little girl. Most important he is already to close to hit correctly, making him also to close to have the correct arm position for parries. Than he use the hammer grip. The sabre twists in his hand on contact with the other blade. Hutton teach the classic sabre grip with the thumb on the handle …
Having limited experience with either presenter, Russ Mitchell or Daniel Pope, but having been involved in fencing in one format or another since 1982 I am singularly unimpressed with Russ Mitchell's video and interpretations. Unfortunately the other field I've been involved in for a decade or so is politics and the similarities I see between Russ's presentation and that of a highly partisan advocate are staggering. The bias is blatant and obvious.
Thank you for taking the time to assemble a critique. As I said in the prior version, please let me know if you'd prefer further argumentation as commentary here, or in video form. I consider some of the counter-argument to be steel-man, but others to be (accidental) straw-man.
As an aside, for those who may have gotten a garbled or emotive take on the position staked out in the original video, critique of Cold Steel should very obiously not be taken to imply disdain for Hutton, and certainly not for "Hutton Enjoyers." I would ask that those on the sidelines have the courtesy not to assign me responsibility for positions which I have regularly and explicitly disavowed.
Thanks for your response Russ. I’m happy for you to discuss in whatever format suits you best and would be keen to hear your views, particularly if I’ve inadvertently misrepresented anything.
I think it’s a useful discussion to have overall, as I don’t see the need for any perceived divide in the sabre community over this
I personally have learned from both videos. I would appreciate a response to this video in video form.
@@l0rd0f0xygen This
@@DanielPopeScholarVictoria I don't know why there would be, except insofar as one often needs to don a hazmat suit before "entering the comments section." In proper debate format, yours would be the counter-argument, and mine the first rebuttal? I'll work on a video for same. [edit: spelling. I lack YT Premiere, so my rebuttal won't be as polished as yours, but should have something soon).
@@russmitchellmovement online communities often attract unnecessarily nagative participants, sadly.
In debate terms I haven't really provided a counter-argument, purely direct rebuttale to yours.
I do have a brief follow up video in the works highighting what I do think the weak points are in cold steel, as well as clarifying some small points from the first video, following a few comments from colleagues and ofther fencers, which may make my overall position on hutton clearer, which may affect your preferred responses.
Thank you. I have used the high octave parry in combat and it works.
A lovely example of modest claims, defended robustly.
I love high octave :')
Love the approach to the criticisms, well said
I watched the recent video by Russ and found it informative as a non-Hutton and non-Sabre fencer trying to get into sabre fencing. I also found yours, Pope, to be an interesting counter-argument and response, this sort of thing always helps me learn.
Also, love my little "Go Josh" in your Swordplay sabre footage, it was a fun fight to watch!
I'm new to Hutton, the impression that I have gotten is that his style was specifically designed to counter the way that rebels in India were sword fighting.
Really good video. Well done, Dan.
Russ' video was one that left a very sour taste in my mouth, as it reminded me a lot of toxic, unproductive fencing teachers I've had in the past; ones who seek to present a pseudo-dogmatic "right way to do things", while necessarily suppressing a more constructive and open-minded approach, fuelled especially by multiple perspectives on a given technique. My past teachers' targets normally centered around constant mocking of Meyerists as "flowery and impractical", teaching us students a hyper-canonical interpretation of early KDF sources.
I think there comes a point where playful cross-system rivalries devolve into pointless dunking on martial systems one simply doesn't like; I believe Russ' video was an example of the latter, though I strongly suspect he would disagree with my perspective. Regardless, it produces an unhealthy environment in which to learn as a community. I appreciate the fact that you took the time to demonstrate the issues in Russ' video, as such easily accessible visual demonstrations serve to counteract more harmful elements within the historical fencing community :)
Well yes, I'd consider that prima-facie character assassination, so yes, I'd obviously disagree. (and I"m sorry you had a bad experience with the KDF community)
@@russmitchellmovement Thank you, and I'm sorry you feel that way.
He seemed so angry in the video I felt, it really turned me off to his videos
Good man 😊 Keep up the smashing work. Love your videos. Very thorough and rationally considered
excellent video ! thank you
Greetings from Poland. Hutton's saber fan.
High Octave is simply a necessity. A fencer doesn't always have the luxury to choose the ideal defence for a given situation. Following a failed strike, the opponent may beat down our sword, at which point the only quick defence to his immediate reposte is a hanging parry (High Octave). It's undoubtedly a very weak position, with poor offensive utility, nonetheless it must be practiced, and employed, when the situation requires it. It's not a position one would opt to fight from, but that's why Hutton called it an "auxiliary" parry. It is simply sometimes the only option available.
This video is not a criticism it just shows the arguments to be utter hogwash as politely as possible. If you eviscerate someone smiling doesnt make it better.
Many thing to say to the way Russ teach sabre to a little girl. Most important he is already to close to hit correctly, making him also to close to have the correct arm position for parries. Than he use the hammer grip. The sabre twists in his hand on contact with the other blade. Hutton teach the classic sabre grip with the thumb on the handle …
Having limited experience with either presenter, Russ Mitchell or Daniel Pope, but having been involved in fencing in one format or another since 1982 I am singularly unimpressed with Russ Mitchell's video and interpretations.
Unfortunately the other field I've been involved in for a decade or so is politics and the similarities I see between Russ's presentation and that of a highly partisan advocate are staggering. The bias is blatant and obvious.
Great video - thanks !
This is the same as katana vs longsword. Depends on the person using it, but katana has more Hollywood time.
Quartparade mit Terz Conter...