Just as an addendum, if you go from Wigan, along Wigan Lane past the memorial obelisk to Standish, in the church there I am told they have a civil war helmet from the battle. Also there is a part of Wigan that has an area called Longshoot (Scholes/Aspull area) and there is an urban myth? that someone took a long range pot-shot at Oliver Cromwell, hence the name!...whether there is any truth in it I don't know. Also I'm almost certain it says on the battlefield memorial that 'Lord Darby was killed on this spot'...it's been a few years since I last looked at so I maybe mistaken. Cheers Chris
Thank you for you comments. I've only seen pictures of the monument and had hoped to follow the route down from Stirling to Worcester this year. Unfortunately that may not happen! I will definitely take a look when I finally get to see the site.
I've always lived in Wigan. As a child I was told Longshoot was named after a canon shot fired at the Parish church in the town centre in the civil war. I've read various and probably more realistic explanations, but if you stand in Longshoot it does actually look over the town centre and the church is still the most prominent feature, so who know's 🙂
As far as I understand it, on his way South, Charles went around Wigan because there was Plague there due to all that had happened to it in the Civil Wars. They say that Charles spent the night at Bryn Hall just outside Wigan. I don`t think that the Stuarts were fans of the Stanley Family. King Charles I did not really trust the Earl of Derby. When King Charles I was intending to Raise his Standard, the Earl suggested he did so at Warrington. There was a bridge at Warrington over the River Mersey that linked the Earl`s Lands in both Counties. Charles I declined the suggestion and instead he Raised his Standard at Nottingham on 22nd August. The Earl`s Ancestor, Thomas Stanley was the one who betrayed Richard III at Bosworth. Richard III had based himself at Nottingham prior to Bosworth, the same City where Charles I Raised his Standard. Bosworth was fought on 22nd August. Charles I Raised his Standard on the Anniversary of Bosworth. There are some that believe that he did this as a snub to the Earl of Derby in recognition of his Ancestor having betrayed a King of England.
The "House" where the Earl of Derby hid was believed to have been the Old Dog Inn off Market Street. They say that you could still see the blood stains from his wounds on the stone flags in the Inn, until the early 20th Century. The Inn is no longer there as an Inn. It was the Earl of Derby who first came across Boscobel as a place to give refuge on his way to Worcester, and that after Charles`s defeat at Worcester, the Earl advised him to leave the Army and go to Boscobel as the Roundheads would follow the Army and if he stayed with it, he would be captured.
@@discoverhistory7818 As far as I understand it, on his way South, Charles went around Wigan because there was Plague there due to all that had happened to it in the Civil Wars. They say that Charles spent the night at Bryn Hall just outside Wigan. I don`t think that the Stuarts were fans of the Stanley Family. King Charles I did not really trust the Earl of Derby. When King Charles I was intending to Raise his Standard, the Earl suggested he did so at Warrington. There was a bridge at Warrington over the River Mersey that linked the Earl`s Lands in both Counties. Charles I declined the suggestion and instead he Raised his Standard at Nottingham on 22nd August. The Earl`s Ancestor, Thomas Stanley was the one who betrayed Richard III at Bosworth. Richard III had based himself at Nottingham prior to Bosworth, the same City where Charles I Raised his Standard. Bosworth was fought on 22nd August. Charles I Raised his Standard on the Anniversary of Bosworth. There are some that believe that he did this as a snub to the Earl of Derby in recognition of his Ancestor having betrayed a King of England.
Are you sure you have the Armies in the correct positions? As far as I understood it, Derby marched South from Preston. He arrived at Wigan en-route to join Charles. Cromwell`s Regiment of Foot was Marching towards Wigan from Manchester. Lilburne was afraid that Derby was between him and Cromwell`s Regiment and that Derby would destroy Cromwell`s Regiment. That Lilburne made his way along Wigan Lane from the South. That Derby turned around, marched out of Wigan and fought him North of the Town. Could you check this? Also, there was only 1 Battle on Wigan Lane. The other you are referring to is I believe the aftermath of the Battle of Preston in 1648. Cromwell defeated the Royalists at Preston. That night, the Royalists abandoned their position and trudged along the muddy lanes to Wigan . It was raining. The Cavalry arrived in Wigan first. They had travelled along what is now Chorley Road. When they came to the Inn called the Boar`s Head, they turned left, down Wigan Lane to Wigan, only to find that their Infantry was not there. They returned the way they had come and at Darwin ran into Cromwell`s Ironsides and were Routed. They fled back to Wigan along the same route they had taken previously. The Infantry had in the meantime trudged through the miserable night along what is now called Preston Road and through Standish , past the Boar`s Head with what is now Chorley Road on their left, and entered Wigan. The Cavalry then arrived. The nervous Infantry formed up in Market Place and prepared to receive what they believed was Cromwell`s Cavalry. A Scottish Officer named Turner tried to reason with the Infantry but they replied: "Ye be Cromwell`s men" and a Pike was thrust into Turner`s thigh. Meanwhile, an enterprising Cavalry Trooper rode from the rear of the Cavalry and shouted that Cromwell was here. The Cavalry charged their own Infantry to get through. The Royalist Infantry threw down their weapons and the Royalists began to loot Wigan, which had always been a Royalist Town when not occupied by a Parliamentary Force. By this time, Cromwell was at the Boar`s Head. He spent the night in Wigan and wrote to Parliament telling them that the Road from Preston to Wigan was the worst road that he had ever travelled. Also that the town was "Very Malignant". There is a Ditch South of the Town which is called Cromwell`s Ditch. As far as I am aware, the field behind it was Cromwell`s Camp. Sorry if slightly off Topic, but thought it was a good Story and not to be confused with a second Battle fought on Wigan Lane. Before entering Wigan,, the Royalists in retreat from Preston, did occupy high ground to the North of Wigan, somewhere, possibly the Site of the Battle of Wigan Lane in 1651, but decided to continue and not fight Cromwell again that night if possible. I suspect it may have been the same ground, as what is a good Site for a Battle for one Army, would also be one for a later one.
They are the troop positions recorded at the time. You do find sites fought over numerous times in history. As you say, the choice of ground is often chosen for geographical reasons and tactical ones. Powick Bridge in Worcester is a perfect example of this. It saw the first and last clash of arms of the English Civil Wars - 1642 and 1651. Newbury saw two actions too.
@@discoverhistory7818 What Source are you using for the positions of the Armies at Wigan Lane? This is an Extract from Lilburne`s Account. I have put what I believe are the relevant parts in Bold with any additional explanation by myself in brackets. I hope the Bold comes out. "Yesterday morning, about eleven or twelve a clock in the night, the Enemy marched from Preston, we lying within two or three miles of them, where we expected those supplyes of Forces which came not, some of our intelligence informing us the Enemy were running away towards their army (Worcester?) with what they had gotton; we pursued them hither (to Wigan) with some confidence, that that intelligence was true, and the rather we believed it because of some discouragement we put upon them the day before; but upon our approach hither (approaching Wigan) we found it otherwise, for they were bending their course towards Manchester,(Manchester is East of Wigan and not North or South) where they had not only very great hopes of surprising my Lord Generall's Regiment of Foot, but also assurance of the assistance of five hundred men in and about the Towne, but, upon the sight of our near approach, they unexpectedly put themselves in a posture of fighting with us, which then we endeavoured to decline, in regard to the very great advantage they had by their many Foote and Hedges, and the danger we apprehended my Lord Generall's Regiment of Foot at Manchester to be in, (the Royalists were between Lilburne and Cromwell`s Regiment coming from Manchester) we were drawing off, thinking to have marched in the left flanke of them thither, (the River Douglas was on the Royalists Right Flank) to have gained a conjunction with our Friends, who too, had order to march that day to me to Preston; we had thought to have met them on the way, having sent severall messengers to let them know both the Enemies and our motion, but the enemy perceiving us to draw off, quickly advanced upon us with their Horse and Foot, (the Royalists marched out of the Town, North, towards Lilburne) ……..
Sorry the Bold did not come out so here are the passages I had placed in Bold: Enemy were running away towards their army (Worcester?) This would be South from Preston. pursued them hither (to Wigan) Lilburne was behind the Royalists who were heading South. upon our approach hither (approaching Wigan) bending their course towards Manchester, (Manchester is East of Wigan and not North or South) but also assurance of the assistance of five hundred men in and about the Towne, but, upon the sight of our near approach, they unexpectedly put themselves in a posture of fighting with us, the danger we apprehended my Lord Generall's Regiment of Foot at Manchester to be in, (the Royalists were between Lilburne and Cromwell`s Regiment coming from Manchester) we were drawing off, thinking to have marched in the left flanke of them thither, (the River Douglas was on the Royalists Right Flank) but the enemy perceiving us to draw off, quickly advanced upon us with their Horse and Foot, (the Royalists marched out of the Town, North, towards Lilburne) ……..
@@georgewalls152 apologies in the delay. We've been busy launching #Charter400 for Worcester and restarting tourism in the City Centre. Thanks for being so patient. I used several sources from the period, including the Earl of Derby's Memoire. This was studied along side some later histories of the fight and the English Civil Wars in general. These include my favourite book by Willis Bund on the Battle of Worcester campaign. I look at them all and work from there. The period ones are the most contradictory if I'm honest! You have to be careful to identify which side has written the account and what motives they have to say what they did. You then have to go with the 'details' that appears the most correct.
I live about 1 Mile from the Battlefield. It is Locally known as the Battle of the Bloody Mountains. Wigan Lane runs along the top of the Street where I live. Thanks for the Documentary.
Reformation Renaissance....That 🔥 Guy....Remember Remember November
Just as an addendum, if you go from Wigan, along Wigan Lane past the memorial obelisk to Standish, in the church there I am told they have a civil war helmet from the battle.
Also there is a part of Wigan that has an area called Longshoot (Scholes/Aspull area) and there is an urban myth? that someone took a long range pot-shot at Oliver Cromwell,
hence the name!...whether there is any truth in it I don't know.
Also I'm almost certain it says on the battlefield memorial that 'Lord Darby was killed on this spot'...it's been a few years since I last looked at so I maybe mistaken.
Cheers
Chris
Thank you for you comments. I've only seen pictures of the monument and had hoped to follow the route down from Stirling to Worcester this year. Unfortunately that may not happen! I will definitely take a look when I finally get to see the site.
I've always lived in Wigan. As a child I was told Longshoot was named after a canon shot fired at the Parish church in the town centre in the civil war.
I've read various and probably more realistic explanations, but if you stand in Longshoot it does actually look over the town centre and the church is still the most prominent feature, so who know's 🙂
The monument on Wigan Lane commemorates Maj Gen Sir Thomas Tyldesley who served under the Earl of Derby and was killed on that spot.
As far as I understand it, on his way South, Charles went around Wigan because there was Plague there due to all that had happened to it in the Civil Wars. They say that Charles spent the night at Bryn Hall just outside Wigan. I don`t think that the Stuarts were fans of the Stanley Family. King Charles I did not really trust the Earl of Derby. When King Charles I was intending to Raise his Standard, the Earl suggested he did so at Warrington. There was a bridge at Warrington over the River Mersey that linked the Earl`s Lands in both Counties. Charles I declined the suggestion and instead he Raised his Standard at Nottingham on 22nd August. The Earl`s Ancestor, Thomas Stanley was the one who betrayed Richard III at Bosworth. Richard III had based himself at Nottingham prior to Bosworth, the same City where Charles I Raised his Standard. Bosworth was fought on 22nd August. Charles I Raised his Standard on the Anniversary of Bosworth. There are some that believe that he did this as a snub to the Earl of Derby in recognition of his Ancestor having betrayed a King of England.
An interesting story. 1651 saw many arguments in the Royalist Army and led to some very old grievances being aired!
The "House" where the Earl of Derby hid was believed to have been the Old Dog Inn off Market Street. They say that you could still see the blood stains from his wounds on the stone flags in the Inn, until the early 20th Century. The Inn is no longer there as an Inn. It was the Earl of Derby who first came across Boscobel as a place to give refuge on his way to Worcester, and that after Charles`s defeat at Worcester, the Earl advised him to leave the Army and go to Boscobel as the Roundheads would follow the Army and if he stayed with it, he would be captured.
Its a fascinating story. An Ideal place for a Blue Plaque. Charles was so reliant on his force to boost numbers.
@@discoverhistory7818 As far as I understand it, on his way South, Charles went around Wigan because there was Plague there due to all that had happened to it in the Civil Wars. They say that Charles spent the night at Bryn Hall just outside Wigan. I don`t think that the Stuarts were fans of the Stanley Family. King Charles I did not really trust the Earl of Derby. When King Charles I was intending to Raise his Standard, the Earl suggested he did so at Warrington. There was a bridge at Warrington over the River Mersey that linked the Earl`s Lands in both Counties. Charles I declined the suggestion and instead he Raised his Standard at Nottingham on 22nd August. The Earl`s Ancestor, Thomas Stanley was the one who betrayed Richard III at Bosworth. Richard III had based himself at Nottingham prior to Bosworth, the same City where Charles I Raised his Standard. Bosworth was fought on 22nd August. Charles I Raised his Standard on the Anniversary of Bosworth. There are some that believe that he did this as a snub to the Earl of Derby in recognition of his Ancestor having betrayed a King of England.
Are you sure you have the Armies in the correct positions? As far as I understood it, Derby marched South from Preston. He arrived at Wigan en-route to join Charles. Cromwell`s Regiment of Foot was Marching towards Wigan from Manchester. Lilburne was afraid that Derby was between him and Cromwell`s Regiment and that Derby would destroy Cromwell`s Regiment. That Lilburne made his way along Wigan Lane from the South. That Derby turned around, marched out of Wigan and fought him North of the Town. Could you check this? Also, there was only 1 Battle on Wigan Lane. The other you are referring to is I believe the aftermath of the Battle of Preston in 1648. Cromwell defeated the Royalists at Preston. That night, the Royalists abandoned their position and trudged along the muddy lanes to Wigan . It was raining. The Cavalry arrived in Wigan first. They had travelled along what is now Chorley Road. When they came to the Inn called the Boar`s Head, they turned left, down Wigan Lane to Wigan, only to find that their Infantry was not there. They returned the way they had come and at Darwin ran into Cromwell`s Ironsides and were Routed. They fled back to Wigan along the same route they had taken previously. The Infantry had in the meantime trudged through the miserable night along what is now called Preston Road and through Standish , past the Boar`s Head with what is now Chorley Road on their left, and entered Wigan. The Cavalry then arrived. The nervous Infantry formed up in Market Place and prepared to receive what they believed was Cromwell`s Cavalry. A Scottish Officer named Turner tried to reason with the Infantry but they replied: "Ye be Cromwell`s men" and a Pike was thrust into Turner`s thigh. Meanwhile, an enterprising Cavalry Trooper rode from the rear of the Cavalry and shouted that Cromwell was here. The Cavalry charged their own Infantry to get through. The Royalist Infantry threw down their weapons and the Royalists began to loot Wigan, which had always been a Royalist Town when not occupied by a Parliamentary Force. By this time, Cromwell was at the Boar`s Head. He spent the night in Wigan and wrote to Parliament telling them that the Road from Preston to Wigan was the worst road that he had ever travelled. Also that the town was "Very Malignant". There is a Ditch South of the Town which is called Cromwell`s Ditch. As far as I am aware, the field behind it was Cromwell`s Camp. Sorry if slightly off Topic, but thought it was a good Story and not to be confused with a second Battle fought on Wigan Lane. Before entering Wigan,, the Royalists in retreat from Preston, did occupy high ground to the North of Wigan, somewhere, possibly the Site of the Battle of Wigan Lane in 1651, but decided to continue and not fight Cromwell again that night if possible. I suspect it may have been the same ground, as what is a good Site for a Battle for one Army, would also be one for a later one.
They are the troop positions recorded at the time. You do find sites fought over numerous times in history. As you say, the choice of ground is often chosen for geographical reasons and tactical ones. Powick Bridge in Worcester is a perfect example of this. It saw the first and last clash of arms of the English Civil Wars - 1642 and 1651. Newbury saw two actions too.
@@discoverhistory7818 What Source are you using for the positions of the Armies at Wigan Lane? This is an Extract from Lilburne`s Account. I have put what I believe are the relevant parts in Bold with any additional explanation by myself in brackets. I hope the Bold comes out. "Yesterday morning, about eleven or twelve a clock in the night, the Enemy marched from Preston, we lying within two or three miles of them, where we expected those supplyes of Forces which came not, some of our intelligence informing us the Enemy were running away towards their army (Worcester?) with what they had gotton; we pursued them hither (to Wigan) with some confidence, that that intelligence was true, and the rather we believed it because of some discouragement we put upon them the day before; but upon our approach hither (approaching Wigan) we found it otherwise, for they were bending their course towards Manchester,(Manchester is East of Wigan and not North or South) where they had not only very great hopes of surprising my Lord Generall's Regiment of Foot, but also assurance of the assistance of five hundred men in and about the Towne, but, upon the sight of our near approach, they unexpectedly put themselves in a posture of fighting with us, which then we endeavoured to decline, in regard to the very great advantage they had by their many Foote and Hedges, and the danger we apprehended my Lord Generall's Regiment of Foot at Manchester to be in, (the Royalists were between Lilburne and Cromwell`s Regiment coming from Manchester) we were drawing off, thinking to have marched in the left flanke of them thither, (the River Douglas was on the Royalists Right Flank) to have gained a conjunction with our Friends, who too, had order to march that day to me to Preston; we had thought to have met them on the way, having sent severall messengers to let them know both the Enemies and our motion, but the enemy perceiving us to draw off, quickly advanced upon us with their Horse and Foot, (the Royalists marched out of the Town, North, towards Lilburne) ……..
Sorry the Bold did not come out so here are the passages I had placed in Bold:
Enemy were running away towards their army (Worcester?) This would be South from Preston.
pursued them hither (to Wigan) Lilburne was behind the Royalists who were heading South.
upon our approach hither (approaching Wigan) bending their course towards Manchester, (Manchester is East of Wigan and not North or South)
but also assurance of the assistance of five hundred men in and about the Towne, but, upon the sight of our near approach, they unexpectedly put themselves in a posture of fighting with us,
the danger we apprehended my Lord Generall's Regiment of Foot at Manchester to be in, (the Royalists were between Lilburne and Cromwell`s Regiment coming from Manchester) we were drawing off, thinking to have marched in the left flanke of them thither, (the River Douglas was on the Royalists Right Flank)
but the enemy perceiving us to draw off, quickly advanced upon us with their Horse and Foot, (the Royalists marched out of the Town, North, towards Lilburne) ……..
@@georgewalls152 apologies in the delay. We've been busy launching #Charter400 for Worcester and restarting tourism in the City Centre. Thanks for being so patient. I used several sources from the period, including the Earl of Derby's Memoire. This was studied along side some later histories of the fight and the English Civil Wars in general. These include my favourite book by Willis Bund on the Battle of Worcester campaign. I look at them all and work from there. The period ones are the most contradictory if I'm honest! You have to be careful to identify which side has written the account and what motives they have to say what they did. You then have to go with the 'details' that appears the most correct.
I live about 1 Mile from the Battlefield. It is Locally known as the Battle of the Bloody Mountains. Wigan Lane runs along the top of the Street where I live. Thanks for the Documentary.
Thank you. We are so glad you are enjoying them.
this is in my recommended.. why? idk but I'll give it a like
My ancestor tree is interesting