I know destiny isn’t the best right now but I’ll always show up for a Byf video no matter what. I just love the investigative nature of lore discussions, always gets me excited.
Tbh, I’ve seen the theory that we’re going to see the main hive pantheon split and a bunch of minor Hive gods rise up a few times. If that were to happen, Kelgorath and Nokris are high on that list as potential “heretical gods”
It would be very interesting if the Echo turns out to be a lucid Osmium King. I wonder how both Savathun and Xivu Arath would respond to hearing their father's voice for the first time in millenia, as a sane man rather than one driven mad by the Witness.
That is actually the coolest idea I've heard in a while, it'd fuck with them psychologically the way an ahamkara did to Uldren at the most extreme case, but wow, that'd be awesome.
Considering that this is the last episode until the next “major” DLC, it might be a good idea for me to jump back in after nearly a half a year afk. Plus, i loved the Dreadnaught from The Taken King, would love me some nostalgia right now. Thanks for the refresher, Byf!
I think this episode will absolutely wipe the floor with the last two episodes fingers crossed. Its looking promising so far and the Hive have never let us down narratively in a long time if ever.
The way the development cycle and just realistic constraits on time work means bungie only has so much time and resources to use. People may complain but its the way things are, you cant exprct story missions with individual unique elemrnts every week every month etc ..... bungie the most of their energy is foscused on the big expansion and the season leading into it. It has always been this way, the first season is usually the worst the middle ones the better and the last ine leadijg into the expansion the best. So I am pretty confident that knowing the past plus what we know of hersey that it will be quite good. Also IMO i didnt have any major problem with the last and current episode, they were great in my opinion when you compare them to previous seasons and not an expansion or some fantasy thatvis not realistic they are good. Myself personally I enjoyed both episodes but like it usually is i thought echoes was okay and revenant was much better of the 2.
Its an endless cycle of Joever and we're so back we can never get away from this fate and this means we are just stuck in this cycle with no way to break it even if you quit you will come back yeah there are other games but that destiny itch will come around again and again
The best way to experience Destiny is to just not play during the “it’s so joever” phase and reap the fruits of the “we’re so back” phase when it comes around. This, obviously, doesn’t work if you lack the ability to just play another game (which seems to be the case for a lot of Destiny chuds I fear).
In D1 when you defeat then Taken Cabal Centurion and Ogre just before you face Oryx there is a door behind the portal you can scan. Your ghost says this is where the hive keep powerful things locked up that they can't control and haven't figured out how to weaponize yet.
Same! To me, the Hive are the most interesting faction in D2: a dark, monarchical, eldritch race of creatures that have fed off of and decimated countless galaxies? It’s so fascinating. Will we kill Savathun, Xivu, and the Worms? Ending the Hive gods? Will we kill Xivu and hunt the worms later? Will we have to deal with Savathun again and kill her once and for all? Will Eris take on a reluctant role as ambassador for the Lucent Hive and other defector Hive that would ally with us? What could come of this? There’s so many ways this episode could go.
@@JM1992 in the case of revenant armor..thye they transition from concept to game rather well cause as far as seasonal//epsiode armor go revenant armor is damn gorgeous
@@yorokobeshitbag4618The first Echo held the spirit of an old commander that once fought and died against the Hive. They lived on a world that was just beyond Fundament. After being uplifted by the Traveler, the Hive came, hungry for their light. They protected the Traveler, only for it to leave them. Now their history and tactical knowledge of command lies with Maya Sundaresh. A Golden Age scientist that went mad due to the Veil, likely the Witness spoke through it, and drove her mad with obsession. She’s still out there. But I believe we Guardians will find a way to resist her power to bend others will. And end her to take/destroy the Echo. The second Echo, ended up with Fikrul the Fantatic, who turned the Scorn into a vampiric, undying new race. He was fired if his immortality and was finally given the peace of a final death. His Echo, containing the spirit of a legendary Elksni warrior and power of resurrection, was not as subservient as the first Echo was with Maya. It was disgusted by Fikrul’s actions, and sought an Elksni that was worthy. Worthy in using its power to restore Old Riis to glory. It choose Eramis, who may be on the oath to redemption, given a second chance. The third and final Echo, we can only guess, relates to the Hive. It could be in Willbreaker, or is some other artifact. Whoever is in it, and who claims it, is anyone’s guess.
@@sebastiancortes3206 are you blind or dumb because anyone whos played any sould bourn game knows the lore is never direct or lines up the way you think it does because of the complexities of TIME TRAVEL helloooo xD ur insane if you think elden rings lore is any exception or better than destinys vast complex interwoven stories when theyre known for the same exact thing
It’s also worth keeping in mind that during the episode reveal trailer (The Journey Ahead) when they start talking about Heresy they show only art of Oryx’s side of the hive, aswell as “Navigator” armour being upfront too doesn’t seem like it’s going to be just be a reference.
If we can pilot it, we can traverse beyond the stars, but we would have to create an actual unity with a hive faction at the maximum, minimum, learn enough hive rites to repair, maintain and power the ship.
I don't want to be a buzz kill, but it's possible the decay of the Dreadnought is just natural decay. Without Oryx to control the ship and a proper, organized force to maintain it, it's possible the natural parts of the ship are finally rotting away. That could still serve as part of the story and theme of Heresy.
Perhaps, that being said I do want to point out that in the livestream Bungie did after Final Shape to tease the upcoming year as well as Frontiers, they specifically referred to what the Dreadnought is undergoing as "moulting." The word moulting specifically means old growth falling away so that new growth can take it's place. - Nevermind, I checked it again, they said "peeling to reveal a new, spooky, bony front", I misremembered xP
@TetramentTea I think you're getting your ships confused, the Leviathan and Dreadnought are two different ships, but if that's correct I can see it. The ship is changing, and it's final result will likely mean both a new state for the ship and a new state for the Hive in general
Random theory for funzies: Toland commits heresy in Xivu's eyes by using his knowlege of the Darkness and the power of the Echo to TAKE and inhabit Oryx's body. He fully escapes death by resurrecting the body while driving out the mind of Oryx Into the Deep. Heresy and defilement of her brother's corpse, with the intent of filling the empty throne position. All in good fun. Don't screech.
Not gonna lie, I'd LOVE to see Toland finally grow a pair and finally enact his plan to TAKE over the Hive pantheon. It would be really cool if it was Oryx's body because as you said it would REALLLLLY piss off Xivu, possibly enough to make her slip up and make major mistakes thus costing her her life.
@SnyperMK2000JclL Yeah, it'd be neat to finally get something more out of him in the story. Maybe we'll get lucky and they'll bring Luzaku into the episode to be a kind of guide or intermediate between Savie/Immaru (their way of keeping a safe distance.) With Revenant, this was what I was hoping for. I was hoping Eramis stops Misraaks from attacking Eido when he loses it. He's grabs and moves him back. Echo chooses him and subdues Nezarec's curse with pulsing light that engulfs them both. Eramis is fatally wounded before he takes control and dies, giving her regards and tells Misraaks to do what he promised for the Eliksni amd praises Eido. But it ends with a twist. She's buried in a memorial site in the Eliksni quarter honoring her sacrifice. Eido is standing with the Guardian and Misraaks, speaking to her grave about a better way forward for the Eliksni. A ghost appears and starts to spin while a crowd getting animated trying to watch. Thumps are heard, then Eramis's hand smashes out of the grave and crawls out. Eramis out of breath looks at the crowd then at our group as Eido slowly steps to her. She stumbles her words about to tell her who she is when Eramis cuts her off, "Eido? What is this? Why am I here!?" The Echo's light that engulfed them both influenced Eramis with the Darkness and Light, allowing her to keep her memories after being made into a Guardian. It gets decided that she, with the Light and Echo, will go find/create a new Riis. A Kel of Kels that will find a new home for all Eliksni to settle. My side head canon alternate timeline version.
It going to be that random hive inside the crystal near the entrance to the dreadnought from the campaign, right after we looses Eris ship. Also we've never address the fate of a throne world that has lost its master. Both Crota and Oryxthrone worlds fade into irreverence after were done with the raid.
this felt like a d1 byf video learning and new information told in a beautiful story format no negative vibes about the game and alot of mentions of grimoire hidden characters and their grimoire card pop ups shown in the video ah takes me back banger vid
33:48 I would LOVE Fynch to return, but he’s become one of those npcs that only exist for the sake of existing. He’s literally not been involved in any story content since WQ’s campaign, and idk if that’s just because of his VA not being available or what the deal is there, but I love the little skittish dude! A bit annoying at times, yes, but I just want to see him get some more screen time.
Tbh BYF listening to the lore from you is far better than just playing the game you are the reason I enjoy playing Destiny because you tell the story better
Forsaken: “This is a make or break moment for the franchise.” Witch Queen: “This is a make or break moment for the franchise.” Season of the Seraph: “This is a make or break moment for the franchise.” Season of the Deep: “This is a make or break moment for the franchise.” Season of the Wish: “This is a make or break moment for the franchise.” The Final Shape: “This is a make or break moment for the franchise.” Episode Heresy: “This is a make or break moment for the franchise.” I’m still enjoying myself. Guess I’m just easy to please.
I wouldn't mind them bringing back the Bond Brothers strike like they did with Fallen S.A.B.E.R. Keep in mind the dungeon, too. We're taking a detour to check on Rhulk's pyramid. Dungeons(apart from shatter throne) tie into their season. Returning to her Throne World assures Savathun's involved, somehow.
To me, the evidence points almost unanimously to Oryx returning in some capacity. Returning to the Dreadnaught, Navigator armor, the shake-up to the Hive Pantheon, and, most importantly of all, the resurrection of a significant character, one who believed necromancy was the highest form of Heresy, because according to the Sword Logic, if something is too weak to live, it shouldn't exist, and resurrection undermines the whole point. And it aligns with the idea that Bungie is trying to get people interested in Destiny again, and bringing back Oryx, truely bringing him back, not just is a reprised raid, would definitely bring back a good bit of players to the game. How I hope he comes back is through the Echo. We don't know where it went, so I like to think it got flung to Titan, embedded itself in his chest cavity, and resurrects him. I don't know if he would keep his memories or not, but if the Echo does bring him back, they would likely include him having a bit of an existential crisis, unsure if he should use his second chance to get revenge on the Guardians that killed him and his son, or lament the fact that by coming back, he disobeys the Sword Logic. Idk maybe I'm just a little schizo but it sound pretty damn cool to me.
I know so much work goes into a 38 minute video especially with destiny not doing so hot but i want to say i love your content, been listening for over 7 years since D1 and will continue to no matter how Destiny does as a game
Watching, commenting and thumbs up for Byf support. Thanks for keeping the lore going. While it’s been a long time since I’ve logged into Destiny, I’m always glad to come listen to the lore.
The seasonal structure of this episode is gonna be rocky. Bungie's likely not going to let us patrol the Dreadnaught again. It will probably get locked to an activity. However, it will be super cool if they do. Patrolling the Leviathan outside of the raid during the season of the Haunted was awesome. I wish we could still do that. It's there, still hanging in the Moon's skybox.
Keep strong. The writers should be commended for being able to make such awesome lore & story, but their bosses make their work worthless with the way they let the game fall to shambles as they try to nickel & dime is to death.
I came onto youtube and saw ur name featured. I loaded up the vid for nostalgia and to catch up on the story. Just hearing your intro and seeing your intro made me want to grind destiny again. It's been too long old friend.. too long. Ironically, no game has felt like a similar grind that's worth the time. Been on cod, pubg, fortnite, marvel rivals, phas, elden ring, and not one game has cured my itch for worthwhile progression. I'm coming back.
What do we all think of Oryx having involvement in this episode? We know: -His body is alive -A soul chunk of his is in Touch of Malice -His Worm is unaccounted for -And Eris flipped his card in the deck after flipping the other two hive gods and herself indicating his role may not be over
Man. Dont you ever stop doing D2 videos. This was 🔥🔥. I still cant believe we killed The Witness before we really faced Xivu Arath. That must mean something? Hopefully we will finally see Xivu Arath in-game in Heresy and hopefully Bungie does not put her behind a Dungeon or campaign. She deserves to be a Raid Boss.
I do have to say that this video reminded me how much I adore the Hive lore and all the major story threads we've been a part of when it comes to the Hive. I think I need to replay The Taken Queen, Shadowkeep, and The Witch Queen.
Important to note that we should really be expecting to go to the Dreadnought through a node in the HELM, rather than it being its own destination. Gotta keep expectations low and reasonable.
I’m curious on what the echo is going to be from this season, the only things that come to mind are either Oryx, Taox, or even Toland the shattered. I know the oryx one is a bit on the nose but with xivus unwavering devotion to him I think it would be interesting to see what power he could grant xivu if he was the memory inside the echo.
31:01 Byf, we turned 1 other worm into a gun. What’s to say another turned into a ship with weapons wouldn’t still retain sentience? I feel this might be the case, now that oryx isn’t around to control and influence it.
To be pedantic, we didn't turn Xol into a gun. Xol turned himself into a gun because tying himself to us was a safer bet than sticking with Nokris or any of the Hive.
As of today, I've read two Destiny fanfiction stories where the Hive characters acted differently from what's expected of the Sword Logic. One is where an Acolyte named Xala had to flee the moon Titan cus despite already consuming her Worm, she believed she could gain more from life without taking. The other is pretty a romance between a Lucent Brood Wizard and a random Guardian.
My prediction pretty much is zivu awrath gets a echo and a new look is why they haven't show her. She got kicked out of her throne world with the echo shes going to take over the dreadnought. Since she looks up to oryx she will be his successer take over the ship claim a new throne world. And then were here to take the ship ourselves or ect.
I’m calling it, the Ship has been “awakened” and the worm god who was formed from it is now trying to turn itself back into a worm with the power of the echo
I mean, there's a possibility we haven't touched in this, and there's every possibility I am wrong, but the thing that sounds most "heretical" to me is, well, Xivu has no Throne World. Oryx's Dreadnought is right there. Why not move in? Even if there is no "proper" Throne World there now, what stops Xivu from using heretical magicks and inserting herself into a dormant one, replacing it with her own? She already can't use her own place, there's not much to lose and everything to gain.
I think, Oryx may return, and Xivu may be slain. And in the future, we will need to end the Hive pantheon once and for all. Killing Savathun, and a resurrected Oryx, and the Worm Gods. Leaving, unbeknownst to us, the Hive throne vacant for Toland to take. As a new Hive god. Of chaos. Chaos and his madness coincide together in a sense. And Eris will be forced to face her final challenge in ending the Hive by dooming them: killing the last survivor of her old fireteam.
Perhaps the Echo in Heresy involves the Krill? The sword logic would see the Krill as very weak and unworthy, but being a part of the Echo would mean they gained power they should not have according to the Sword Logic. Also, I would just love seeing the species the Hive originate from
It’s possible Oryx’s superweapon might still work if a sword with a shard of willbreaker is used. We haven’t seen the raze lighter in a bit, Shaxx had it last. It could be a cool reintroduction of an old classic
With the two past echoes being the echo of command and the echo of creation. I could kinda see the last one being the echo of rebirth. It could be what lets Xivu be more risky on the front line and actually lets her stand more of a chance against the lucent brood guardians. It could also explain the looks heretical arsenal and the dreadnaught. The echo could be reviving the dreadnaught back into the worm for but slowly.
With the name Herasy I’m kinda expecting Xivu try to revive oryx in some way on the dreadnaught. We from season of the deep know Xivu misses oryx and has gone a little crazy due to it but after that we took away her throne world and killed the witness so she’s probably gone way off the deep end maybe so far that she’s willing to commit Herasy to see her brother again. Something else is we know from witch queen savathun had alakul the dark blade revived, ecthar sword of oryx in the dungeon, and tried to revive oryx with hive ghosts so I’m a lil curious of the children of oryx will be revived. It kinda depends on how much of someone needs to be left to revive them like crotas essence was at his funeral, the sisters bodies might be on the dreadnaught still, and Nokris when you killed him his head piece would drop on the ground so there’s some stuff there to revive them with ghosts and it could be a power play to do so having big figures under her leadership As for the echo my guess is it crashed into the dreadnaught and we’re gonna be fighting savathun and xivu to find it first then someone will claim in at the end of act 2 setting something big for act 3
Technically Ahsa is a Proto-Worm, the species the worms were before they were corrupted by Darkness. Similar to how the Hive were a species called the Krill before they were changed by dealing with the Worm gods
They always seems to save the best story for last. The rest of the year usually doesn't have much, but they always seem to make the season finale a real kicker, so hopes are definitely high for Heresy.
I haven’t watched the video yet but I’d love it if they’d bring back toland in a big way with this coming season. He’s always been my favorite destiny character (that we’ve interacted with) and his story, or his knowledge more so, is the only one I feel like could entirely lead into the next step of the destiny story.
The problems with the previous Episodes, more-so revenant than echo, was the lack of cascading implications. While Echo showed us that the vex can think now has major implications, it stops at the vex themselves. The story was just alright, but small implications. Revenant was unfortunately the middle episode about a character that hasn’t been relevant for over 4 years. On top of that, the story was just a tying up loose ends. Basically everyone got closure and they killed off the loose thread being Fikrul. Cascading implications? None. Just a linear path that Eramis can forge a new Riis. Heresy…. we haven’t been revealed yet what the implications will be, but the Hive and cascading implications… you can’t have one without the other. The amount of characters affected is like a chess board. Moving one piece changes the perspective and threat of every character around it. I am genuinely excited for this season, so many good directions it could go. When they announced the dungeon being related to Rhulk, it was practically the confirmation for me to pay attention to what happens this season. Implications are everywhere.
Imagine the drednaut itself becoming the weilder of the echo, it is the corpse of a hive worm god, and xol lived through becoming our weapon, and if it's undergoing changes... Food for thought.
Not sure if we ever got a solution to this but I would like to mention in the Shattered Throne dungeon we can find Toland and he gives some voice lines which may explain the shortness of the Warmind campaign regarding Xol. He basically says in a certain piece of dialogue something along the lines of 'Do you really believe you killed a Worm God?'. Toland, while sometimes untrustworthy, is an expert in the Hive so he may be telling, at least a degree of, the truth. Edit: A second thing I wanted to point out though it may just be coincidental is that just like how Oryx is described as a Navigator of the siblings to the Deep, Quio, from the Ares One crew who made first contact with the Traveller on Mars and thus ignited Humanity's Golden Age, was also emphasised to be the crew's Navigator. Additionally, the name 'Ares One' refers to, I believe, Ares, the Greek God of War similarly to how Xivu Arath is the Hive God of War. That's two very explicit similarities to the Hive's Big 3, excluding the obvious of them both being a team of 3 and going to commune with a force paracausal power.
@Xencam yeah that's why I said it would be cool to see their father as in the 3 hive gods that I mentioned. I wasn't saying that Oryx was the father if that's how you interpreted my comment.
There's a part of me that really wants Toland to be the one who wields the echo this episode. But another part of me prays that he continues to grab for Hive-based power and fail. Seething in his lil world.
Would be dope if Toland some how (even tho he's dead) seized the echo in attempt to take Oryx place like he felt we should have done at the end of TTK.
I find it most likely that our goal in heresy is to rebuild/take command of the Dreadnaught. As far as I can tell, Apollo has us leaving the sol system. We have been shown time and time again that there are dangers outside our solar system that are beyond our capabilities, so what better way to lead an away team than with the legendary Dreadnaught? This would make sense with the Navigator armor as the guardians will be taking control of the Dreadnaught for our own use. It would also make some sense as we know that the dungeon has us going back into Rhulk's pyramid ship, where the corpse of a worm god resides. Excellent materials for fixing a broken Dreadnaught made of another worm god. Will it be that simple? Probably not. Not to mention that I have no idea how the third echo plays into all of this. Just spouting ideas.
Theres one storyline that im interested to get answers on: What has happened to oryx's heart, it was mentioned when dungeon came around and it is still an open story thread as far as i know
Oh wow, that holiday of Inversion for the hive is. Really cool information actually. Really hope there's something to read about that in the new Episode
I know destiny isn’t the best right now but I’ll always show up for a Byf video no matter what. I just love the investigative nature of lore discussions, always gets me excited.
Fr
Destiny is actually pretty good right now tbh
@ I agree it’s starting to feel better ngl. I think it’s just holidays we had like 2 in this episode
same.
My problem, is destiny is going to shit, but Hive and Eliksni stories always bring me baxk.
It's gonna be Kelgorath
Always has been 🔫
That would actually be a great idea, it would be the only time we've ever had to worry about him
@@RoachofSol lol
Tbh, I’ve seen the theory that we’re going to see the main hive pantheon split and a bunch of minor Hive gods rise up a few times.
If that were to happen, Kelgorath and Nokris are high on that list as potential “heretical gods”
@@Xander--gd5lb Nokris is truly dead, no?
It would be very interesting if the Echo turns out to be a lucid Osmium King. I wonder how both Savathun and Xivu Arath would respond to hearing their father's voice for the first time in millenia, as a sane man rather than one driven mad by the Witness.
That would be freaking awesome!
That is actually the coolest idea I've heard in a while, it'd fuck with them psychologically the way an ahamkara did to Uldren at the most extreme case, but wow, that'd be awesome.
@@christianyaerger1751 in millennia? Yeah like actual billions of years
I feel like Savathick will be like Eramis, she will leave with an Echo and actually rebuild Fundament, after we wrest it from Toland and/or Xivu.
Considering that this is the last episode until the next “major” DLC, it might be a good idea for me to jump back in after nearly a half a year afk. Plus, i loved the Dreadnaught from The Taken King, would love me some nostalgia right now.
Thanks for the refresher, Byf!
You’ll definitely have a lot of content to do! Some good cutscenes and exotic missions in there, as a few highlights.
I think this episode will absolutely wipe the floor with the last two episodes fingers crossed. Its looking promising so far and the Hive have never let us down narratively in a long time if ever.
Anything hive is my shit homie can’t wait to come back after being off for so long😂
You’re not wrong. There is some decent highlights from the past few seasons if you can skip all busy work.
The way the development cycle and just realistic constraits on time work means bungie only has so much time and resources to use. People may complain but its the way things are, you cant exprct story missions with individual unique elemrnts every week every month etc ..... bungie the most of their energy is foscused on the big expansion and the season leading into it. It has always been this way, the first season is usually the worst the middle ones the better and the last ine leadijg into the expansion the best. So I am pretty confident that knowing the past plus what we know of hersey that it will be quite good.
Also IMO i didnt have any major problem with the last and current episode, they were great in my opinion when you compare them to previous seasons and not an expansion or some fantasy thatvis not realistic they are good. Myself personally I enjoyed both episodes but like it usually is i thought echoes was okay and revenant was much better of the 2.
“It’s joever….we’re so back…it’s joever…we’re so back…it’s joev……
Its an endless cycle of Joever and we're so back we can never get away from this fate and this means we are just stuck in this cycle with no way to break it even if you quit you will come back yeah there are other games but that destiny itch will come around again and again
As a destiny player i agree
The best way to experience Destiny is to just not play during the “it’s so joever” phase and reap the fruits of the “we’re so back” phase when it comes around.
This, obviously, doesn’t work if you lack the ability to just play another game (which seems to be the case for a lot of Destiny chuds I fear).
Joever is the Eldritch force bubbling up. It's been alongside us the whole time. It's time we embrace the Joever, Guardians.
@@thecastleofnothing7074 Word spaghetti.
In D1 when you defeat then Taken Cabal Centurion and Ogre just before you face Oryx there is a door behind the portal you can scan. Your ghost says this is where the hive keep powerful things locked up that they can't control and haven't figured out how to weaponize yet.
Oh that was the door to the prisons where we fought Alak-hul, I wonder what else is hanging out back there
The Heresy concept art makes me excited. I also just love the Hive lol
Same! To me, the Hive are the most interesting faction in D2: a dark, monarchical, eldritch race of creatures that have fed off of and decimated countless galaxies? It’s so fascinating. Will we kill Savathun, Xivu, and the Worms? Ending the Hive gods? Will we kill Xivu and hunt the worms later? Will we have to deal with Savathun again and kill her once and for all? Will Eris take on a reluctant role as ambassador for the Lucent Hive and other defector Hive that would ally with us? What could come of this? There’s so many ways this episode could go.
Concept arts are always cool until we see what they put in the game
@@JM1992 in the case of revenant armor..thye they transition from concept to game rather well cause as far as seasonal//epsiode armor go revenant armor is damn gorgeous
There more exciting than vex that’s for sure
@@wolfemperor_n112 I dont mind the vex ones from echoes..kinda a ronin vibe but I can see what you mean
Once again, we're at a make it break moment with the hive gods being the turning point. Let's hope for the best
It tends to be the thing they go to when the game needs a big jump start.
Nah. I’ll have my “hope eater” emblem on for this episode in protest.
To be fair they are like 3/3 on hive god stories being the points where the game bounced back. I’m excited
Since the Echo's are victims the Witness has conquered/consumed, very curious to what the next one's gonna be, maybe Taox?
What if it’s the leviathan from fundament
@@BrazarB Who were the previous two echoes then? Haven’t been playing so this is news to me
@@yorokobeshitbag4618 first one was maya sundaresh second one was the fanaitc now eramis
@@yorokobeshitbag4618The first Echo held the spirit of an old commander that once fought and died against the Hive. They lived on a world that was just beyond Fundament. After being uplifted by the Traveler, the Hive came, hungry for their light. They protected the Traveler, only for it to leave them. Now their history and tactical knowledge of command lies with Maya Sundaresh. A Golden Age scientist that went mad due to the Veil, likely the Witness spoke through it, and drove her mad with obsession. She’s still out there. But I believe we Guardians will find a way to resist her power to bend others will. And end her to take/destroy the Echo. The second Echo, ended up with Fikrul the Fantatic, who turned the Scorn into a vampiric, undying new race. He was fired if his immortality and was finally given the peace of a final death. His Echo, containing the spirit of a legendary Elksni warrior and power of resurrection, was not as subservient as the first Echo was with Maya. It was disgusted by Fikrul’s actions, and sought an Elksni that was worthy. Worthy in using its power to restore Old Riis to glory. It choose Eramis, who may be on the oath to redemption, given a second chance. The third and final Echo, we can only guess, relates to the Hive. It could be in Willbreaker, or is some other artifact. Whoever is in it, and who claims it, is anyone’s guess.
@@skeletonmcwellington8942 those are the wielders of the echoes, not the personalities inside the echoes themselves
The way you tell all this sounds so much more exciting than it probably will be ingame.
Lore is always better than in game. It’s like this in every game
@@The_Reaper101 not true. Elden ring has amazing lore and a game that meets its measure
@@The_Reaper101No. No not every game is like this. This is a very known thing of destiny's story telling
@@sebastiancortes3206the lore and the gameplay of Elden Ring are exactly as in sync as Destiny’s lol.
@@sebastiancortes3206 are you blind or dumb because anyone whos played any sould bourn game knows the lore is never direct or lines up the way you think it does because of the complexities of TIME TRAVEL helloooo xD ur insane if you think elden rings lore is any exception or better than destinys vast complex interwoven stories when theyre known for the same exact thing
Awe yes it's so great to hear a lore video on the drive home from work ❤
25:09
Cayde-6 (voicing the bond brothers) : "Give us the Primus, or we blow the ship"
Was that a voice line?
@eranronen573 Yes, it was hilarious as ever
I really hope our guardian gets to claim the last echo and use it as a weapon
After eramis got this one and Maya floated off into the distance on a river of a cup with the first do you think there's even a chance we'll get it?
I still think Oryx will have a role to play in Heresy, but it's WHAT ROLE? He isn't dead, just 'absent' as his remains continue to evolve.
What if Oryx is the dominant mind inside the echo, and someone reunites it with Oryx's body?
Oryx’s body lacks a soul, what if Toland places his soul in the taken kings body
It’s also worth keeping in mind that during the episode reveal trailer (The Journey Ahead) when they start talking about Heresy they show only art of Oryx’s side of the hive, aswell as “Navigator” armour being upfront too doesn’t seem like it’s going to be just be a reference.
We also gotta remember that Oryxs Worm is MIA we got no clue where that things gone so
@quincyquincy4764 is not oryx in the echo.. the previous two echoes was of other species that became extinct in the past like the ecumene
Oryx, and his resurrection is the Heresy, just how Savathun's was in Xivu's eyes
They say the DREADNAUGHT was capable of traveling to different solar systems,,SOL IS ONE OF MANY…The Dreanaught can Navigate us to MANY New systems
If we can pilot it, we can traverse beyond the stars, but we would have to create an actual unity with a hive faction at the maximum, minimum, learn enough hive rites to repair, maintain and power the ship.
The Fallen, Cabal and Vex also come from different solar systems. the Vex in particaular are like space cancer, and exist everywhere.
I don't want to be a buzz kill, but it's possible the decay of the Dreadnought is just natural decay. Without Oryx to control the ship and a proper, organized force to maintain it, it's possible the natural parts of the ship are finally rotting away. That could still serve as part of the story and theme of Heresy.
Perhaps, that being said I do want to point out that in the livestream Bungie did after Final Shape to tease the upcoming year as well as Frontiers, they specifically referred to what the Dreadnought is undergoing as "moulting."
The word moulting specifically means old growth falling away so that new growth can take it's place.
- Nevermind, I checked it again, they said "peeling to reveal a new, spooky, bony front", I misremembered xP
@TetramentTea I think you're getting your ships confused, the Leviathan and Dreadnought are two different ships, but if that's correct I can see it. The ship is changing, and it's final result will likely mean both a new state for the ship and a new state for the Hive in general
@ oh oops, yeah wrong ship lmao, gonna edit that real quick
Random theory for funzies: Toland commits heresy in Xivu's eyes by using his knowlege of the Darkness and the power of the Echo to TAKE and inhabit Oryx's body.
He fully escapes death by resurrecting the body while driving out the mind of Oryx Into the Deep. Heresy and defilement of her brother's corpse, with the intent of filling the empty throne position.
All in good fun. Don't screech.
Not gonna lie, I'd LOVE to see Toland finally grow a pair and finally enact his plan to TAKE over the Hive pantheon. It would be really cool if it was Oryx's body because as you said it would REALLLLLY piss off Xivu, possibly enough to make her slip up and make major mistakes thus costing her her life.
@SnyperMK2000JclL Yeah, it'd be neat to finally get something more out of him in the story. Maybe we'll get lucky and they'll bring Luzaku into the episode to be a kind of guide or intermediate between Savie/Immaru (their way of keeping a safe distance.)
With Revenant, this was what I was hoping for. I was hoping Eramis stops Misraaks from attacking Eido when he loses it. He's grabs and moves him back. Echo chooses him and subdues Nezarec's curse with pulsing light that engulfs them both. Eramis is fatally wounded before he takes control and dies, giving her regards and tells Misraaks to do what he promised for the Eliksni amd praises Eido.
But it ends with a twist. She's buried in a memorial site in the Eliksni quarter honoring her sacrifice. Eido is standing with the Guardian and Misraaks, speaking to her grave about a better way forward for the Eliksni.
A ghost appears and starts to spin while a crowd getting animated trying to watch. Thumps are heard, then Eramis's hand smashes out of the grave and crawls out. Eramis out of breath looks at the crowd then at our group as Eido slowly steps to her. She stumbles her words about to tell her who she is when Eramis cuts her off, "Eido? What is this? Why am I here!?"
The Echo's light that engulfed them both influenced Eramis with the Darkness and Light, allowing her to keep her memories after being made into a Guardian.
It gets decided that she, with the Light and Echo, will go find/create a new Riis. A Kel of Kels that will find a new home for all Eliksni to settle.
My side head canon alternate timeline version.
This video has gotten me really excited to play Destiny again. That and remembering how much story is left to explore with the Hive...
Thanks Byf.
I think a fun candidate for the keeper of the next Echo would be Taox.
I have a sneaky suspicion we will find Taox whenever we face Xivu
It going to be that random hive inside the crystal near the entrance to the dreadnought from the campaign, right after we looses Eris ship. Also we've never address the fate of a throne world that has lost its master. Both Crota and Oryxthrone worlds fade into irreverence after were done with the raid.
This is just like Gorbino's Quest. This is the Gorbino's Quest of lore daddy.
@@frozi1541 when the boss stomps im going to fucking misadventure myself
this felt like a d1 byf video learning and new information told in a beautiful story format no negative vibes about the game and alot of mentions of grimoire hidden characters and their grimoire card pop ups shown in the video ah takes me back banger vid
They could pull the ultimate gotcha and give Kelgorath the echo...
33:48 I would LOVE Fynch to return, but he’s become one of those npcs that only exist for the sake of existing. He’s literally not been involved in any story content since WQ’s campaign, and idk if that’s just because of his VA not being available or what the deal is there, but I love the little skittish dude! A bit annoying at times, yes, but I just want to see him get some more screen time.
I have a lot of hope riding on this episode. The Taken King was peak Destiny IMO and I can’t wait to go back to the dreadnaught.
0:20 THE UPENDED
A SUITABLE TITLE FOR THAT WHICH TURNS WORLDS, UPSIDE DOWN
Goddammit 😂, I hear him in my head
@eranronen573 As do I.
Nezarec is way more impactful in lore and the story. You know it’s true.
@markricheard1870 Perhaps, but to me at least Dad-Bod Death isn't as meme worthy as Mr. Upender
Tbh BYF listening to the lore from you is far better than just playing the game you are the reason I enjoy playing Destiny because you tell the story better
Forsaken: “This is a make or break moment for the franchise.”
Witch Queen: “This is a make or break moment for the franchise.”
Season of the Seraph: “This is a make or break moment for the franchise.”
Season of the Deep: “This is a make or break moment for the franchise.”
Season of the Wish: “This is a make or break moment for the franchise.”
The Final Shape: “This is a make or break moment for the franchise.”
Episode Heresy: “This is a make or break moment for the franchise.”
I’m still enjoying myself. Guess I’m just easy to please.
I wouldn't mind them bringing back the Bond Brothers strike like they did with Fallen S.A.B.E.R.
Keep in mind the dungeon, too. We're taking a detour to check on Rhulk's pyramid. Dungeons(apart from shatter throne) tie into their season. Returning to her Throne World assures Savathun's involved, somehow.
I mean why would savathun not be involved
@submachinegun5737 directly involved as opposed to indirectly like the whole Riven business.
To me, the evidence points almost unanimously to Oryx returning in some capacity. Returning to the Dreadnaught, Navigator armor, the shake-up to the Hive Pantheon, and, most importantly of all, the resurrection of a significant character, one who believed necromancy was the highest form of Heresy, because according to the Sword Logic, if something is too weak to live, it shouldn't exist, and resurrection undermines the whole point. And it aligns with the idea that Bungie is trying to get people interested in Destiny again, and bringing back Oryx, truely bringing him back, not just is a reprised raid, would definitely bring back a good bit of players to the game. How I hope he comes back is through the Echo. We don't know where it went, so I like to think it got flung to Titan, embedded itself in his chest cavity, and resurrects him. I don't know if he would keep his memories or not, but if the Echo does bring him back, they would likely include him having a bit of an existential crisis, unsure if he should use his second chance to get revenge on the Guardians that killed him and his son, or lament the fact that by coming back, he disobeys the Sword Logic.
Idk maybe I'm just a little schizo but it sound pretty damn cool to me.
No one can sail the Sea of Screams and remain sane. So what madness will Tolund aspire to? Is he a candidate for owning the third Echo?
I know so much work goes into a 38 minute video especially with destiny not doing so hot but i want to say i love your content, been listening for over 7 years since D1 and will continue to no matter how Destiny does as a game
Watching, commenting and thumbs up for Byf support. Thanks for keeping the lore going. While it’s been a long time since I’ve logged into Destiny, I’m always glad to come listen to the lore.
I’m deadass only watching this because I miss the sweet sound of byfs voice and absolutely love hive lore.
The seasonal structure of this episode is gonna be rocky.
Bungie's likely not going to let us patrol the Dreadnaught again. It will probably get locked to an activity.
However, it will be super cool if they do.
Patrolling the Leviathan outside of the raid during the season of the Haunted was awesome.
I wish we could still do that. It's there, still hanging in the Moon's skybox.
This addiction is BAD. I'm relapsing after 6 months clean.
lol it’s ok to not play the game 24/7 we’re allowed to take breaks!
Brother I was 800+ days clean until 2 weeks ago 😔
Take a 3 second dive in an ice water bucket! Should clear your mind
@@krifnahal1926 is that forsaken or the start of beyond light? because damn u missed everything
Keep strong. The writers should be commended for being able to make such awesome lore & story, but their bosses make their work worthless with the way they let the game fall to shambles as they try to nickel & dime is to death.
I came onto youtube and saw ur name featured. I loaded up the vid for nostalgia and to catch up on the story. Just hearing your intro and seeing your intro made me want to grind destiny again. It's been too long old friend.. too long.
Ironically, no game has felt like a similar grind that's worth the time. Been on cod, pubg, fortnite, marvel rivals, phas, elden ring, and not one game has cured my itch for worthwhile progression. I'm coming back.
Oryx resurrection 🙏
I’d be very surprised if Oryxs’ body doesn’t play a part in this story
Missed you and your videos. Happy you have recovered and are back explaining the intricacies of the story.
What do we all think of Oryx having involvement in this episode?
We know:
-His body is alive
-A soul chunk of his is in Touch of Malice
-His Worm is unaccounted for
-And Eris flipped his card in the deck after flipping the other two hive gods and herself indicating his role may not be over
Babe wake up, new Byf video just dropped
Thanks for the video Byf. Great warm up video right before the reveal stream.
Man. Dont you ever stop doing D2 videos. This was 🔥🔥. I still cant believe we killed The Witness before we really faced Xivu Arath. That must mean something? Hopefully we will finally see Xivu Arath in-game in Heresy and hopefully Bungie does not put her behind a Dungeon or campaign. She deserves to be a Raid Boss.
I do have to say that this video reminded me how much I adore the Hive lore and all the major story threads we've been a part of when it comes to the Hive. I think I need to replay The Taken Queen, Shadowkeep, and The Witch Queen.
been waiting on a byf heresy episode for weeks finally...
Important to note that we should really be expecting to go to the Dreadnought through a node in the HELM, rather than it being its own destination. Gotta keep expectations low and reasonable.
I’m curious on what the echo is going to be from this season, the only things that come to mind are either Oryx, Taox, or even Toland the shattered. I know the oryx one is a bit on the nose but with xivus unwavering devotion to him I think it would be interesting to see what power he could grant xivu if he was the memory inside the echo.
The way the weapons and the dreadnaught look like they are peeling is amazing! I'd be shocked if it was the warlock who made osteo striga!
Kelgorath rezzed as a hive light bearer
Then he gets the echo
Kelgorath, God of Dying
His devotion to being a punching bag should be rewarded.
Byf you are definitely my favourite to watch for lore and I also love everything Hive thanks for your videos
Brother, you always bring it!! Especially with respect to the Hive! Good stuff.
i still expect our taken king tocome back like savathun told to us in her riddles.
31:01 Byf, we turned 1 other worm into a gun. What’s to say another turned into a ship with weapons wouldn’t still retain sentience? I feel this might be the case, now that oryx isn’t around to control and influence it.
To be pedantic, we didn't turn Xol into a gun. Xol turned himself into a gun because tying himself to us was a safer bet than sticking with Nokris or any of the Hive.
I havent touched D2 in 3 minths and didnt watch any videos related to it during that time but im back now and man i missed watching Byf
It's not even bungie making me look forward to the new season/act and be excited again. it's lore daddy himself.
As always a great video. 🙏
As of today, I've read two Destiny fanfiction stories where the Hive characters acted differently from what's expected of the Sword Logic. One is where an Acolyte named Xala had to flee the moon Titan cus despite already consuming her Worm, she believed she could gain more from life without taking.
The other is pretty a romance between a Lucent Brood Wizard and a random Guardian.
My prediction pretty much is zivu awrath gets a echo and a new look is why they haven't show her. She got kicked out of her throne world with the echo shes going to take over the dreadnought. Since she looks up to oryx she will be his successer take over the ship claim a new throne world. And then were here to take the ship ourselves or ect.
Actually... That would be a good way for Xivu Arath to continue being relevant
I’m calling it, the Ship has been “awakened” and the worm god who was formed from it is now trying to turn itself back into a worm with the power of the echo
I mean, there's a possibility we haven't touched in this, and there's every possibility I am wrong, but the thing that sounds most "heretical" to me is, well, Xivu has no Throne World. Oryx's Dreadnought is right there. Why not move in? Even if there is no "proper" Throne World there now, what stops Xivu from using heretical magicks and inserting herself into a dormant one, replacing it with her own? She already can't use her own place, there's not much to lose and everything to gain.
Man I just wish we could explore the dreadnaught. But I highly doubt it since Titan wasn’t explorable
I think, Oryx may return, and Xivu may be slain. And in the future, we will need to end the Hive pantheon once and for all. Killing Savathun, and a resurrected Oryx, and the Worm Gods. Leaving, unbeknownst to us, the Hive throne vacant for Toland to take. As a new Hive god. Of chaos. Chaos and his madness coincide together in a sense. And Eris will be forced to face her final challenge in ending the Hive by dooming them: killing the last survivor of her old fireteam.
My money is on the echo being the father of the three hive gods, it’s a long shot, but maybe.
Perhaps the Echo in Heresy involves the Krill? The sword logic would see the Krill as very weak and unworthy, but being a part of the Echo would mean they gained power they should not have according to the Sword Logic. Also, I would just love seeing the species the Hive originate from
30:56 maybe the ship itself is what’s being resurrected 😮
I hope the dreadnaught is a fully explorable destination like it was in D1
Isn't there a possibility that Oryx is being revived in the dungeon or on the Dreadnought in some way? Or possibly Kelgorath YET AGAIN?
It’s possible Oryx’s superweapon might still work if a sword with a shard of willbreaker is used. We haven’t seen the raze lighter in a bit, Shaxx had it last. It could be a cool reintroduction of an old classic
With the two past echoes being the echo of command and the echo of creation. I could kinda see the last one being the echo of rebirth. It could be what lets Xivu be more risky on the front line and actually lets her stand more of a chance against the lucent brood guardians. It could also explain the looks heretical arsenal and the dreadnaught. The echo could be reviving the dreadnaught back into the worm for but slowly.
Bungie wants to make a splash? Time to bring out old reliable- Kelgorath, Finder of Echo number 3.
what to expect is the Dreadnaught "coming back" like Titan, a few missions and that's it, can't go back
With the name Herasy I’m kinda expecting Xivu try to revive oryx in some way on the dreadnaught. We from season of the deep know Xivu misses oryx and has gone a little crazy due to it but after that we took away her throne world and killed the witness so she’s probably gone way off the deep end maybe so far that she’s willing to commit Herasy to see her brother again.
Something else is we know from witch queen savathun had alakul the dark blade revived, ecthar sword of oryx in the dungeon, and tried to revive oryx with hive ghosts so I’m a lil curious of the children of oryx will be revived. It kinda depends on how much of someone needs to be left to revive them like crotas essence was at his funeral, the sisters bodies might be on the dreadnaught still, and Nokris when you killed him his head piece would drop on the ground so there’s some stuff there to revive them with ghosts and it could be a power play to do so having big figures under her leadership
As for the echo my guess is it crashed into the dreadnaught and we’re gonna be fighting savathun and xivu to find it first then someone will claim in at the end of act 2 setting something big for act 3
I know I sound nitpicking but we forget a worm, Ahsa
Technically Ahsa is a Proto-Worm, the species the worms were before they were corrupted by Darkness. Similar to how the Hive were a species called the Krill before they were changed by dealing with the Worm gods
@@Xencam Oh I'm fully aware, but what's more heretical than to use her to create a new worm god, totally devoted to the Hive ?
Sent here from Aztecross' Heresy Livestream. You guys rock. ❤❤❤
Plot twist - it’s the dreadnought with the echo for it is a husk of a worm god. Can’t wait to see heresy and its story
Star-side since D1 brother - keep up the Destiny content, lore daddy!
Destiny lore would make an absolute banger HBO series if it had Byf as 1/3 of the writing team.
They always seems to save the best story for last. The rest of the year usually doesn't have much, but they always seem to make the season finale a real kicker, so hopes are definitely high for Heresy.
The Hive are by far my favorite and I want this episode to be amazing so badly!!! I really miss wanting to play Destiny
LET'S GOOO IT'S BYFR TIME
I’ve retired from D2 but still love Byf lore videos.
15:02 the way I've always considered it is that sword logic is the paracausal power and magic. Killing logic is the mindset and philosophy behind it.
I haven’t watched the video yet but I’d love it if they’d bring back toland in a big way with this coming season. He’s always been my favorite destiny character (that we’ve interacted with) and his story, or his knowledge more so, is the only one I feel like could entirely lead into the next step of the destiny story.
The problems with the previous Episodes, more-so revenant than echo, was the lack of cascading implications.
While Echo showed us that the vex can think now has major implications, it stops at the vex themselves. The story was just alright, but small implications.
Revenant was unfortunately the middle episode about a character that hasn’t been relevant for over 4 years. On top of that, the story was just a tying up loose ends. Basically everyone got closure and they killed off the loose thread being Fikrul. Cascading implications? None. Just a linear path that Eramis can forge a new Riis.
Heresy…. we haven’t been revealed yet what the implications will be, but the Hive and cascading implications… you can’t have one without the other. The amount of characters affected is like a chess board. Moving one piece changes the perspective and threat of every character around it. I am genuinely excited for this season, so many good directions it could go. When they announced the dungeon being related to Rhulk, it was practically the confirmation for me to pay attention to what happens this season. Implications are everywhere.
Imagine the drednaut itself becoming the weilder of the echo, it is the corpse of a hive worm god, and xol lived through becoming our weapon, and if it's undergoing changes... Food for thought.
Man I love hive lore thanks Byf
Oh I can’t wait I’m salivating for MORE!!!!
Not sure if we ever got a solution to this but I would like to mention in the Shattered Throne dungeon we can find Toland and he gives some voice lines which may explain the shortness of the Warmind campaign regarding Xol. He basically says in a certain piece of dialogue something along the lines of 'Do you really believe you killed a Worm God?'. Toland, while sometimes untrustworthy, is an expert in the Hive so he may be telling, at least a degree of, the truth.
Edit: A second thing I wanted to point out though it may just be coincidental is that just like how Oryx is described as a Navigator of the siblings to the Deep, Quio, from the Ares One crew who made first contact with the Traveller on Mars and thus ignited Humanity's Golden Age, was also emphasised to be the crew's Navigator. Additionally, the name 'Ares One' refers to, I believe, Ares, the Greek God of War similarly to how Xivu Arath is the Hive God of War. That's two very explicit similarities to the Hive's Big 3, excluding the obvious of them both being a team of 3 and going to commune with a force paracausal power.
Would be cool if the character within the echo was Oryx, Savathun and Xivu Arath's father.
He's their brother
@Xencam yeah that's why I said it would be cool to see their father as in the 3 hive gods that I mentioned. I wasn't saying that Oryx was the father if that's how you interpreted my comment.
@@nextgennel5123 Ohh, yeah that comma messed me up 😅 I misread that. Sorry about that
Right off the bat, a recap on the Navigator's fall.
That Titan Armor is so good. Taken King was peak Destiny
There's a part of me that really wants Toland to be the one who wields the echo this episode.
But another part of me prays that he continues to grab for Hive-based power and fail. Seething in his lil world.
Would be dope if Toland some how (even tho he's dead) seized the echo in attempt to take Oryx place like he felt we should have done at the end of TTK.
I don't see how we don't get a Xivu reveal in 8 days, real excited to get our first look after almost a decade
The last time the concept of heresy within the Hive was important was on Mars 👀👀👀
I find it most likely that our goal in heresy is to rebuild/take command of the Dreadnaught. As far as I can tell, Apollo has us leaving the sol system. We have been shown time and time again that there are dangers outside our solar system that are beyond our capabilities, so what better way to lead an away team than with the legendary Dreadnaught? This would make sense with the Navigator armor as the guardians will be taking control of the Dreadnaught for our own use. It would also make some sense as we know that the dungeon has us going back into Rhulk's pyramid ship, where the corpse of a worm god resides. Excellent materials for fixing a broken Dreadnaught made of another worm god.
Will it be that simple? Probably not. Not to mention that I have no idea how the third echo plays into all of this. Just spouting ideas.
I REALLY REALLY REALLLY want Toland to pop back in the story for Heresy. We have SOOO much to tell him about.
Theres one storyline that im interested to get answers on: What has happened to oryx's heart, it was mentioned when dungeon came around and it is still an open story thread as far as i know
Oh wow, that holiday of Inversion for the hive is. Really cool information actually. Really hope there's something to read about that in the new Episode
Only here to support my favorite Lorekeeper