It's all about context- where are the gorilla and bear fighting? Ideal example: Give the gorilla a car and he'll win against the bear, but then he'll lose to a moose. nature wild
gorilla stands no chance. Does not even have the ability to deal damage, because all they have is blunt damage, and they don't tend to bite. They also have tight skin like humans. Tight skin VS cut is a horrable matchup. Bears can climb, and no gorillas can't just think of some tactic to jump onto the bear from a height. If a human controled a gorilla maybe they could win.
@@thetoyodacar2264 A gorilla stands a chance. A gorilla has slightly better bite force and is approximately 4 times as strong. A bear has protective fat and claws.
@@olx8654 You right, gorillas do bite, and could win against a lion for example. However, bears are just so damn big, only place they could bite and do damage is the neck, or if it could fit its jaw around part of the head. But if it does that it gets within range for the bear to bite as well, and claw them to death while the gorilla tries to bite. Certainly, there is always a chance in such situations, but the chance is low
I just wanna say thanks lud for making this good fish-age neutral content. First time Covid since start of pandemic and mate it sucks, yes I’m Australian and the spiders suck as well
You know your day is spiralling when you go from funny tik toks to being reminded we're delicate sacks of water most other creatures could eviscerate with ease.
Little known fact: Camels were originally aquatic creatures, but when the oceans dried up in the ice age, they were so stubborn they decided to just wander the now barren ocean floors and that's why we find them in the desert today.
3:33 I genuinely didn't know Americans have never seen spiders like that until about a week ago. In Australia we literally have them all the time they're called Huntsman spiders and that one there is about a mid sized one. They function like daddy long-legs, they don't bite, just kill bugs. Because it can sometimes get annoying to remove them or we just don't give a shit, we will give them names and let them chill. The one in my living room rn is called Bobert. (don't ask) The reason why is that they don't bite at all (not physically possible), and they don't make their own webs. And they also spend all their time on the ceiling and high on the walls.
And yet it still is a discussion, despite that fact the rich old white guys used to hunt one animal for fun while the other animal has terrorized humans in north America for hundreds of years and still does to this day
4:36 being an Australian has taught to not just randomly hit a spider as it could be pregnant and spew little tiny baby spiders everywhere and make the problem 1000x worse but instead to pick it and throw it at my siblings
The Philippines aren't real, it's government propaganda, the Philippines are actually a undisclosed amount of land owned by the U.S government located in china. The creature that was seen was fake, and just a way for the government to stop is from going the the Philippines.
I think people don't realise how much bigger and heavier bears are than Gorillas. A grizzly can be quite literally twice the size and weight of a gorilla, and only a little slower. Sure a gorilla could always outrun a bear, but if it is stuck in forced combat, the gorilla loses 10/10 times.
The jaguar actually didn't snap the caiman's neck. It can literally bite through the crocidilian skull and pierce the brain. That's how jaguar kill most of their prey. They are my favorite big cat if you couldn't tell
Here is something to consider. A Grizzly bear can take down a moose with one swipe from its paw... a freaking moose. Grizzly claws on average are 2 in long, but can be up to 4 in long or longer. If a grizzly can take on something much larger than a gorilla, then the bear will have little problem against a gorilla
Gorillas don't punch, they slap, and bears are not only much bigger and heavier, they have looser skin, which is why they can take so many gunshot, they are faster and stronger, have claws and teeth that are very good for destroying a gorilla's tight skin, and bears regularly kill moose and are able to easily snap their spines in half, literally the only thing a gorilla has as an advantage is a slightly more powerful bite, which isn't even useful because of its worse teeth
@@poliorice3600 gorillas are much bigger and heavier and in the video you can literally see the gorilla punch the glass. gorilla candy break the teeth ands claws. they wouldn’t protect a gorillas hide anyways. gorillas don’t even need to use teeth
@@GhostMan407 this is just wrong, a grizzly is bigger than even a silverback, the biggest gorilla, and heavier, while polar bears are over twice as heavy and even bigger, and gorillas usually slap in fights, to say otherwise is to say you have never seen them fight, and a bear can literally snap a gorilla's arms with ease considering it does the same to the spines of moose, which are bigger than most gorillas
@@poliorice3600 gorillas are way bigger, and they punch in fights you can literally see it do it in the video. the gorilla could smash its skull in before the bear could even think
Assuming we are talking a grown ass bear vs a grown ass gorilla the Bear would win every time, a bear is stronger, faster, have razor-sharp teeth and wicked claws.
@@charlesm.2604 I have never seriously thought about it, but I might consider it if I ever land in a post apocalyptic scenario. Cannibalism survival/(fun?) fact: You will survive longer by not eating at all, than by eating parts of your won body.
God that one with the gorilla attacking at the zoo is terrifying. Imagine you're just having fun at the zoo with your family and one of the animals become *clearly* agitated and then fucking crack the glass with one attack. I'd be fucking running
5:00 what is actually happening is that a spider (typically a wolf spider) will carry their baby spiders on their back until they are old enough. If they get annoyed or are in danger they will spread out. This can happen in the us as well since there are wolf spiders over here
Yeah but the thing is, is that bears aren't that strong proportional to their body, they're just so big that they seem really strong. But gorillas are strong even proportionally to their body. A gorilla could smash in a bears head while he runs circles around it and outsmarts it. Gorillas are intelligent creatures and bears aren't.
@@n3v3rforgott3n9 gorillas aren't that weak they could tank some swipes. And they definitely have weapons, they could do a lot of damage smashing the bears head with their fists and they have solid fangs
@@Ser_Jorah they're not so big that they seem strong, theyre big as fuck and strong as fuck. plus they have claws and a bite made to kill. there is no chance in hell a gorilla ever comes close to winning that
The baby spiders coming of a crushed spider is what started my fear of spiders. Stepped on a big ass spider while wearing sandals when I was about 8. All the baby spiders came out and swarmed over my foot. Scarred for life
I’m definitely biased as a long time Ludwig viewer but I really miss having the live chat present under the webcam. I understand if it’s not what Lud wants anymore as he moves into a larger audience/ shifts away from the live-oriented content, but feel like it adds so much to the community of being there when it happens + still feeling like a tight-knit community. Just my thoughts. Love the channel regardless! Thanks for the one time you ran a bit of pretending to be my abusive stepfather 😎
Looking through his past 10 videos, having the chat off is a rare occurrence. This is more than likely him just going "oops, I forgot to overlay the chat here" instead of some deliberate ploy to shift away from live oriented content. I think he would benefit from a bit of variety though. Kind of don't want another SSundee thing happening you know?
@@MonkeSle Idk if you listen to The Yard but they briefly talk about it in an episode and Lud basically said he felt like it made it feel cluttered, especially because most people can’t/don’t keep up with the chat on YT. The rest of them made similar arguments to the original comment, saying it feels more like you’re connected.
I don't think you understand what each animal is......the grizzly is larger, faster, and bulkier than any gorilla. And it has claws that are fairly long. The gorilla can maybe do some stuff with it's fists, but even then just everything except intelligence is in favor of the bear.
4:50 My parents were cleaning out the hallway closet of our old house and there was just this massive boi at the bottom. My mom can't stand spiders so she had my dad kill it. Well about 10,000 baby spiders appeared and we had black floors in that house for some reason. Who knows if we killed them all but we were cleaning so we could move so it wasn't are problem anymore.
That video of the big wolf spider getting hit with the broom and her babies running off makes me genuinely so sad... she was working so hard to protect them 😢
A bear would beat gorilla's. They're both about as top tier as each other but bears theoretically have a winning match up thanks to having thick fur to dull blunt attacks and claws that would make a muscled gorilla bleed heavily. Bear Gorilla is 60:40 and a bear would 4 stock whatever the gorilla version of leffen is until they switch off gorilla's for a chance to win
I looked into bears Vs gorillas a bit and it's pretty clear cut, bears are just gorillas but trading off hands for claws and a stronger jaw. Both could easily rip a human to shreds, but a grizzly bear completely dominates a silverback gorilla. Maybe teach a gorilla to use a gun and it'll stand a chance.
Ludwig is like a laughtrack so I know when to laugh.
It came out a minute ago what if it sucks 💀
@@ludwig good point
@@ludwig I watched it live 😧
@@ludwig ratio of the century
@@ludwig wow you're a 2 month channel member! it's so nice of you to donate some of your money to Ludwig!
It's all about context- where are the gorilla and bear fighting?
Ideal example:
Give the gorilla a car and he'll win against the bear, but then he'll lose to a moose.
nature wild
fighting each other
In a jungle I think that a gorilla wins 100% of the time
In a boxing ring
If it’s a polar bear the gorilla loses, 100%, as long as there isn’t any concern for either about temperatures
@@kiernanconnolly9040 bears can climb trees tho
Ludwig's face after the gorilla cracked the window tho
L
He just realized how wrong he was.
@@frndrmn Bear still Low-Diffs
@@frndrmn a bear is beating a gorilla 10/10 times
@@christophercastiglione2603 10 outta 10, so you have a recorded 10 fights from these creatures? i wanna see
I like how lud was dogging on gorillas until he saw his life flash before his eyes
he's right though
gorilla stands no chance. Does not even have the ability to deal damage, because all they have is blunt damage, and they don't tend to bite. They also have tight skin like humans. Tight skin VS cut is a horrable matchup. Bears can climb, and no gorillas can't just think of some tactic to jump onto the bear from a height. If a human controled a gorilla maybe they could win.
@@thetoyodacar2264 A gorilla stands a chance. A gorilla has slightly better bite force and is approximately 4 times as strong. A bear has protective fat and claws.
@@olx8654 You right, gorillas do bite, and could win against a lion for example. However, bears are just so damn big, only place they could bite and do damage is the neck, or if it could fit its jaw around part of the head. But if it does that it gets within range for the bear to bite as well, and claw them to death while the gorilla tries to bite.
Certainly, there is always a chance in such situations, but the chance is low
@@thetoyodacar2264 ehhh gorillas lose to alone lepoards.
love the no effort titles lud
YT algorithm is for nerds
@@ludwig best title I’ve ever read
@@ludwig trust me i aint no nerd
It's gonna change in less than a day just watch
Looks high effort to me
I just wanna say thanks lud for making this good fish-age neutral content. First time Covid since start of pandemic and mate it sucks, yes I’m Australian and the spiders suck as well
L
get well soon bro
Do you also enjoy Ludwigs s1mp/lncel (in denial) content?
Fr, them spiders in the corners of the house like we dont know they there.
¿ɐʎ ɹ ʍoɥ 'ʇᴉɐɯ ᴉo
You know your day is spiralling when you go from funny tik toks to being reminded we're delicate sacks of water most other creatures could eviscerate with ease.
Boutta reach triple digits
Little known fact: Camels were originally aquatic creatures, but when the oceans dried up in the ice age, they were so stubborn they decided to just wander the now barren ocean floors and that's why we find them in the desert today.
Little known fact: everything that lives on dry land was once an aquatic creature that said fuck the ocean
Pretty op
@@TemmiePlays Well I mean millions of years ago we did but we were fishies.
@@TemmiePlays so you think we just suddenly existed as land mammals
All animals evolved from the sea
@@TemmiePlays bruv I am telling you everything evolved from ocean cunts in the sea.
5:34 for those of you hiding from the sociopathic decision to leave in the baby spider bit
He has no idea how much I appreciate the spider warning, as an arachnophobe
Many thanks🙌🏾
my #1 fear in the world is having the whole "baby spider" experience he was talking about, so I second this lol
@@Xman0220 I don't even want to think about that lol
alternatively you can use raid
@@lulukalilanji8416 I purposely didn’t go into detail because I could already feel my fight-or-flight activating lol
@@cheesescientist8180 oh, and ANGER it? I don’t think so buster
This big cat looks like a big cat is truly the take of the century, thank you Lud for your incredible insight
I think the reason people always say gorilla is because they are intelligent and very strong. But a bear would still beat it.
3:33 I genuinely didn't know Americans have never seen spiders like that until about a week ago.
In Australia we literally have them all the time they're called Huntsman spiders and that one there is about a mid sized one. They function like daddy long-legs, they don't bite, just kill bugs.
Because it can sometimes get annoying to remove them or we just don't give a shit, we will give them names and let them chill. The one in my living room rn is called Bobert. (don't ask)
The reason why is that they don't bite at all (not physically possible), and they don't make their own webs. And they also spend all their time on the ceiling and high on the walls.
The heehee’s and haha’s were especially up to par this episode
I’ve been watching Ludwig for so long, I’ve started laughing like him. I guess you could say his laugh really is contagious.
L
That's qt's laugh
If I ever binge someone’s content and they have a unique laugh I’ll start laughing like them till I stop watching
lmao 2:03 when Lud tried Tom's screech from Tom & Jerry live I watched that for 10 minutes straight
3:16 luds geoguesser practicing is paying off lmao
the clip where they pretend to take a photo of the guy singing just gets funnier every time 😭💀
Bro a gorilla has no chance against a full-grown grizzly bear. Shouldn’t even be a discussion.
And yet it still is a discussion, despite that fact the rich old white guys used to hunt one animal for fun while the other animal has terrorized humans in north America for hundreds of years and still does to this day
If you really think a bear is winning you’ve never seen a gorilla fight.
I've never seen someone subconsciously switch from team grizzly to team gorilla so fast 10:10
The only thing that made me laugh is someone saying "SPIDUSSY!?!?!?!?" lol
Ty lud and editor for keeping the "its safe now" for the spiders lol
4:36
being an Australian has taught to not just randomly hit a spider as it could be pregnant and spew little tiny baby spiders everywhere and make the problem 1000x worse but instead to pick it and throw it at my siblings
9:41 I can't believe that no one here pointed out that tarsiers are real creatures from South East Asia specially the Philippines.
The Philippines aren't real, it's government propaganda, the Philippines are actually a undisclosed amount of land owned by the U.S government located in china. The creature that was seen was fake, and just a way for the government to stop is from going the the Philippines.
I think people don't realise how much bigger and heavier bears are than Gorillas. A grizzly can be quite literally twice the size and weight of a gorilla, and only a little slower.
Sure a gorilla could always outrun a bear, but if it is stuck in forced combat, the gorilla loses 10/10 times.
The jaguar actually didn't snap the caiman's neck. It can literally bite through the crocidilian skull and pierce the brain. That's how jaguar kill most of their prey.
They are my favorite big cat if you couldn't tell
Alternate title: Lud watches 3 tiktoks then gets scared at australian wildlife
4:30 man thinks that the spider is big. I fight ones that are triple the size on the daily to get to my pc. im aussie btw
Here is something to consider. A Grizzly bear can take down a moose with one swipe from its paw... a freaking moose. Grizzly claws on average are 2 in long, but can be up to 4 in long or longer. If a grizzly can take on something much larger than a gorilla, then the bear will have little problem against a gorilla
Ludwig has come in clutch with new content I'm gonna have to rewatch twice
"its just a big cat" made me laugh way more than i should have XD
10:04 Lud questions his existence in the bear vs gorilla debate
Bear would have shattered it.
that wolf spider clip is why flamethrowers exist
People: "Sharks don't know camels exist"
Meanwhile 10:35
Luds face after the gorilla charge is priceless!
Someone in chat said "AMERICA HAS BEARS" as if spiders that duplicate themselves like a Hydra only 100x isn't worse.
Well if you can stop a bear attack with just a boot, all the power to you.
Thanks
The screaming queen bee at 8:00 is actually real, my grandpa and I raise bees of purown and have seen it happen
I KNOW a chatter didn't say "SPIDUSSY" after the exploding spider egg video 💀 5:21
Real ludwig fans knew the original title....
5:40 "he seems kinda sweet tbh" untill u let him in and u find out he has rabies.
Lud is actually my favorite streamer after saying when to look and it wasn’t a bait
2:43 when my brother turns 13 you are invited (he is 9 right now)
gorillas would absolute crush bears. one punch alone would kill a bear
Gorillas don't punch, they slap, and bears are not only much bigger and heavier, they have looser skin, which is why they can take so many gunshot, they are faster and stronger, have claws and teeth that are very good for destroying a gorilla's tight skin, and bears regularly kill moose and are able to easily snap their spines in half, literally the only thing a gorilla has as an advantage is a slightly more powerful bite, which isn't even useful because of its worse teeth
@@poliorice3600 gorillas are much bigger and heavier and in the video you can literally see the gorilla punch the glass. gorilla candy break the teeth ands claws. they wouldn’t protect a gorillas hide anyways. gorillas don’t even need to use teeth
@@GhostMan407 this is just wrong, a grizzly is bigger than even a silverback, the biggest gorilla, and heavier, while polar bears are over twice as heavy and even bigger, and gorillas usually slap in fights, to say otherwise is to say you have never seen them fight, and a bear can literally snap a gorilla's arms with ease considering it does the same to the spines of moose, which are bigger than most gorillas
@@poliorice3600 gorillas are way bigger, and they punch in fights you can literally see it do it in the video. the gorilla could smash its skull in before the bear could even think
@@GhostMan407 you're actually just lying, bears are much bigger and faster, and have the reach advantage by a wide, wide margin
Wonder why chat was edited out. Chat reactions are great! Sitcom Ludwig strikes again, making me laugh with him.
That title is giving off huge kracc bacc energy
3:55 bo burnham reference (5 years)
Ludwig not knowing camels could swim is indicative of not enough experience in Minecraft
Yey finally something to brighten up my day
7:40 PalepEulEulEEEE😭😭😭
Lud is my favorite
The bear vs Gorilla thing, it's just whoever land the first blow.
could you imagine how funny a video would be with Lud and KSI, both of them laughing XD
Bro half the video is nature😭😭
the way you got humbled so fast with the gorilla was hilarious
Dude, silverbacks have similar muscles to humans, but they're like 100x more dense. They're so fucking strong it's insane.
would still lose to a bear tho
Still loses to a bear
Assuming we are talking a grown ass bear vs a grown ass gorilla the Bear would win every time, a bear is stronger, faster, have razor-sharp teeth and wicked claws.
8:12 Imposter? Like from among us?
I turned on timed comments to find something like this.
Sussy queen
Imposter piping 😳
super stoked this went from tiktok with ludwig to planet earth with ludwig
Ludwig: "Look away if you don't want to be haunted"
Me: "Jokes on you, I am currently eating and horror/gore etc. just fuels my hunger"
For the sake of convenience have you considered cannibalism ?
@@charlesm.2604 I have never seriously thought about it, but I might consider it if I ever land in a post apocalyptic scenario.
Cannibalism survival/(fun?) fact: You will survive longer by not eating at all, than by eating parts of your won body.
God that one with the gorilla attacking at the zoo is terrifying. Imagine you're just having fun at the zoo with your family and one of the animals become *clearly* agitated and then fucking crack the glass with one attack. I'd be fucking running
This stream was a banger and it was the first stream of your I tuned into.
Do you know what stream this was ... i wanna watch the vod
@@aaryanpillai1737 the one where he’s in an angels jersey
@@Frungle_ I’ve tried to find it and I haven’t been able to yet, idk if it was more than a month ago but none of them that I could find were it
5:00 what is actually happening is that a spider (typically a wolf spider) will carry their baby spiders on their back until they are old enough. If they get annoyed or are in danger they will spread out. This can happen in the us as well since there are wolf spiders over here
"Silverback gorilla's can weight up to 500lbs... About half the size of the largest grizzly bears"
Lmao, ain't no gorilla beating a bear.
yea not happening gorilla's just dont have a killing move to use against the bears while a swipe from the bears claws could one hit KO them
Yeah but the thing is, is that bears aren't that strong proportional to their body, they're just so big that they seem really strong. But gorillas are strong even proportionally to their body. A gorilla could smash in a bears head while he runs circles around it and outsmarts it. Gorillas are intelligent creatures and bears aren't.
@@n3v3rforgott3n9 gorillas aren't that weak they could tank some swipes. And they definitely have weapons, they could do a lot of damage smashing the bears head with their fists and they have solid fangs
@@Ser_Jorah they're not so big that they seem strong, theyre big as fuck and strong as fuck. plus they have claws and a bite made to kill. there is no chance in hell a gorilla ever comes close to winning that
@@Ser_Jorah you are just absolutely wrong.
wow i actually didnt know camals could swim thanks lud fire vid lmao
YESSS A SHOHEI OHTANI ANGELS JERSEY IM SO HAPPY TO SEE IT!!!!!
GO HALOS!!💫💫💫
The salmon aren't just old they are literally decaying while they are alive
Lud going to random subreddits and looking at the top posts is really entertaining :100:
Me and my brother always look forward to the next meme compilation so thank you lud for entertaining my crackhead of a little brother
The baby spiders coming of a crushed spider is what started my fear of spiders. Stepped on a big ass spider while wearing sandals when I was about 8. All the baby spiders came out and swarmed over my foot. Scarred for life
I’m definitely biased as a long time Ludwig viewer but I really miss having the live chat present under the webcam. I understand if it’s not what Lud wants anymore as he moves into a larger audience/ shifts away from the live-oriented content, but feel like it adds so much to the community of being there when it happens + still feeling like a tight-knit community. Just my thoughts. Love the channel regardless! Thanks for the one time you ran a bit of pretending to be my abusive stepfather 😎
i miss it too :( chat reactions make this shit
Looking through his past 10 videos, having the chat off is a rare occurrence. This is more than likely him just going "oops, I forgot to overlay the chat here" instead of some deliberate ploy to shift away from live oriented content.
I think he would benefit from a bit of variety though. Kind of don't want another SSundee thing happening you know?
@@MonkeSle Idk if you listen to The Yard but they briefly talk about it in an episode and Lud basically said he felt like it made it feel cluttered, especially because most people can’t/don’t keep up with the chat on YT. The rest of them made similar arguments to the original comment, saying it feels more like you’re connected.
Ludwig tries to laugh at tiktoks would’ve been a better title
Ah yes, the title indicates my cue to laugh, thanks Ludwig!
Bro I was eating until the spider part god damn
Ludwig: “Time for some sweet me-me’s”
Me a connoisseur: “ Mmmmm, these were some mighty tasty meemees”
Ain't no God damn way Ludwig put bees piping a queen on UA-cam dot com
Ludwig i was dying for some new content just now and you came in CLUTCH you read my mind\
My phones soaked because I was showering and didn’t want to see smooshed spider eggs thanks lud lmao
2:59 he actually said bat mitzvah which is a 12 y/o girls birthday party so it’s even worse
Your face when that gorilla hit, gold
*Your videos are always so funny and so entertaining, keep it up!* 😂❤️❤️
ludwig reacting to nature and animals is perfect i nedd more of it lol
Always love TikTok time Lud, I’ve been binging them since I’m bored as shit pet sitting all alone. Thanks for the hahas
Man went from try not to laugh to nature eyebleach in minutes💀
The moment he realized gorillas would ducking curbstomp bears lmao
imagine gorilla with a giant mace or hammer tho
I don't think you understand what each animal is......the grizzly is larger, faster, and bulkier than any gorilla. And it has claws that are fairly long. The gorilla can maybe do some stuff with it's fists, but even then just everything except intelligence is in favor of the bear.
4:50 My parents were cleaning out the hallway closet of our old house and there was just this massive boi at the bottom. My mom can't stand spiders so she had my dad kill it. Well about 10,000 baby spiders appeared and we had black floors in that house for some reason. Who knows if we killed them all but we were cleaning so we could move so it wasn't are problem anymore.
9:20 I just feel the need to say that gorillas can literally make a fucking spear and stab a bear.
That video of the big wolf spider getting hit with the broom and her babies running off makes me genuinely so sad... she was working so hard to protect them 😢
A bear would beat gorilla's. They're both about as top tier as each other but bears theoretically have a winning match up thanks to having thick fur to dull blunt attacks and claws that would make a muscled gorilla bleed heavily.
Bear Gorilla is 60:40 and a bear would 4 stock whatever the gorilla version of leffen is until they switch off gorilla's for a chance to win
I looked into bears Vs gorillas a bit and it's pretty clear cut, bears are just gorillas but trading off hands for claws and a stronger jaw. Both could easily rip a human to shreds, but a grizzly bear completely dominates a silverback gorilla. Maybe teach a gorilla to use a gun and it'll stand a chance.
Lud ain’t trying no more on these titles, he knows we’ll still watch them
i love chat after the spider video just saying "SPIDUSSY????"
Ludwig reacting to nature stuff is actually pretty enjoyable
1:27 omg I go there like every weekend, gravesend of all places, I never expected that
the pure terror on his face when he saw the gorrila attack
I love the duality of UA-cam. I went from looking at atoms through an extreme microscope, to studying for an emt course, to "Funny TicTok HAHA"
I was just watching a playlist of these and you go ahead and post a new one. How accommodating.
why is ludwigs chat like “america shoots children” when ludwig says “australia has spiders” ????
ludwig is home for a theatre kid like me
Bro that two minute mark hit me so hard I had to repay that like seven times 🤣
Was having a terrible week really needed that Tom and Jerry clip 😆
thanks ludwig for saying the spider warning when the spiders are already on screen 😭