[TF2] Scout's Magnificent Melees
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- Опубліковано 14 жов 2024
- After 6 months, 5 rerenders of this video, and many horrible opinions, we've finally made it to the end of the series.
Shounic's Vid: • the unjustifiable tf2 ...
Special Thanks to HyperChicken for their cover of 5/4: / hyperchicken
Socials:
Twitter: / itsnotsamg
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![[TF2] Scout's Superb Secondaries](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/wcD_VKlZZWQ/mqdefault.jpg)
![[TF2] Scout's Superb Secondaries](/img/tr.png)
![[TF2] Scout's Best Maps](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kZTPPlEwn9Q/mqdefault.jpg)
![[TF2] Scout's Primary Problem](/img/n.gif)
Music
(In order)
5/4 - Gorillaz (cover by hyperchicken)
Lonesome Street - Blur
Crosseyed and Painless - Talking Heads
Raid - MF DOOM
Under (Mf doom type beat)
Mixed Up - Seymour (Blur Demo)
Talking Heads -Psycho Killer
She's Electric - Oasis
El Scorcho - Weezer
Momentary Bliss - Gorillaz
There's No Other Way - Blur
Beetlebum - Blur
I’m glad my cover could be of use! Solid video!
you have good music taste
good taste in music
aside from. eugh, weezer. awesome taste
No wonder this video is silent.
i disagree on the fan o war, its not supposed to be a "mark them and back up and shoot" weapon. its supposed to be a "i'll mark this guy and get out of there while my team does the job" it makes scout a fast support class which sounds good and it IS good
Plus, it pairs well with the force of nature
@@LamerGuy i mean, it can work sometimes but its not that good in my opinion
Yeah, I think that would be a good way to use it, if you could mark multiple enemies. But you'd probably be more useful to your team by shooting them, since you've done a bit of damage and you've put yourself at less of a risk, meaning you can stay a live longer and contribute more. Honestly, if they let you mark several enemies, you could play with it like how you described and it would be a much better weapon imo.
@@NotSamG you have a point. but i wont consider fan o war worse then the sandman or the sun on a stick because unlike those weapons atleast you can support your team even if it may be tiny imo
@@NotSamG maybe make the radius as large as a rocket explosion
It would pair really well with the Mad Milk
Fun fact about the Wrap Assasin: The weapon's bulb damage is 55 (15 base + 40 bleed), a crit is 85, and The Fists of Steel makes the user (while active) take 170 damage (because spaghetti code identifies it as a melee)
I like to think it’s like mangonels/catapults from AoE2. Giant rock of death that counts as melee damage.
@@Davtwan gotta love trebs and cannons
Does this apply to the Sandman too?
Considering the wrap assassin crit exploit exists, you can do 85 damage consistently. It makes it basically a budget cleaver for your melee slot (cleaver does 90 dmg).
Pair this with the cleaver and you get the closest current-day thing to the old sandman cleaver combo, dealing 175 damage capable of killing Pyros and standard Demos if the bleed is able to get to full capacity, as well as killing light classes almost instantly if you hit both of the projectiles. Soldier and Heavy will be very crippled in the process too, with Soldier being near-death and Heavy having effectively lost over half his health, leaving him vulnerable to one meatshot deaths afterward.
This pairing is very fun and I would argue fair, given Pyros can two-tap you with puff and sting rather skill-lessly, whereas this combo requires hitting two projectiles with different arcing patterns and weights.
Is that really an example of spaghetti code? What other kind of damage would it be?
Ask any single person who has played any fish scout and they'll immediately tell you how good stock bat actually is.
As a Special Delivery item set user, o agree
As a former fish scout, I can also confirm this.
I disagree, even as a Fish Scout, but that's not going to make me stop fishin'.
It has a lower DPS that other stock melees. Main reason it's good is because Scout himself is better suited to using melees, as his faster speed allows him to better close the gap. But if you try to melee another class that can match your speed, like a max head Demoknight, you just die.
@@kubaGR8 Who would win? A crazed scottsmen with a cursed sword that steals the souls of its victims, granting its wielding power: Or : One fishy boi?
8:10 I think the sandman should give scout a speed boost akin to the disciplinary action whenever you hit an enemy or kill an enemy. Or maybe it has a stacking boost to its damage when you kill an enemy.
Return the Sandman to it's original stats, and it won't be garbage anymore.
@@highmedic2351 No, give me the sandman's orignal stats.
@@fanowar772 That's what I just said.
what if the damage scaled up depending on how far your target was? like 15 damage at the closest possible range and maybe 75-90? damage on a moonshot
@@ziqrsx Jesus, that's a lot of damage.
I like to steal health packs from enemies with the Boston Basher
Also, the Fan o' War is criminally underrated in casual, it is a fuck you button to anyone you want, if you get into a team fight and want one guy dead, smack him and bolt. You can also use this to take down heavier opponents while retreating, like if you're fighting a soldier or heavy and are getting crushed, smack them with this and use your pistol to chip at them trying to finish them off.
That strategy sounds like something really smart that I’d never remember to use in gameplay.
@@MorshuGaming surprisingly, not that hard
It's just kind of pointless. Sure, if you hit a Heavy with a Fan o' War he will now die to two rockets or pills instead of three
But if you meatshot him instead, you'll drop him to 195 HP and he'll still die to two rockets or pills.
@@kubaGR8 If you use the force of nature he can die to one rocket.
@@kubaGR8 yeah, but more for the fights that you can’t win by yourself
You're refining your style and making it so much more unique, good job Sam!
2 upsides to the basher that I think also deserve a mentions:
1. Tracking Spies: The bleed helps you keep track of them for a bit longer if they go invis
2. Stealing packs in 1v1s: If you’re in a situation where you are full hp and the enemy is about to reach a health pack, hitting yourself with this thing allows you to take the pack and finish them off. It really helps is tight encounters
Any weapon that has no downsides if you don't miss are top tier
Building uber in pubs almost never comes into play. In pubs there's always injured teammates so uber will always go up at max rate. Sometimes you can follow a medic to the front line and build uber 3 seconds faster, which might be significant in competitive, but rarely makes a difference in your average pub.
Also you missed the biggest downside of candy cane, pipes instakill. All of a sudden fighting demos goes from your advantage to theirs.
Good video though loved it.
The FISH is not a re-skin due to it having different stats. It is just the best melee weapon. :) Also, I know it is not named The FISH
In my experience, I disagree with the notion of using the bat as a weapon for attacking. Usually when I end up using melee as Scout, it’s when I’ve immensely fucked up my shots and backed myself into a corner because of my poor play. Otherwise, if you maintain your ammo and clip, you move with respect to the game state, and know when and where to dodge the enemy’s onslaught of attacks, then generally speaking you shouldn’t need to fall back on melee or rely on it. The bigger hitbox thing is nice, yes, but often times the enemy will swap to their melees in desperation because they’re far more viable to use against light classes (don’t get me started on random crits on Valve pubs). This is why you should get up in classes like Demo’s face, but not actually in his face. This way, he panics, swaps to melee, but can’t hit you because of your distance, or he keeps to his grenade launcher, but will either miss or take self damage. Similar logic applies to Medics and Snipers, but the difference there is that you don’t want Medics to get Uber with the Ubersaw, and there are Snipers who are Bushwacka Jarate heavy who can fuck you over easily. Scout works best as a class who relies on high burst damage and in-your-face hit-and-run tactics, but melee is the thing he specializes in the least, and as such, I feel it’s still better to shoot than hit someone with a bat in 99% of cases. Then again, do keep in mind that my most favored and preferred bat is the Atomizer, just because of how it offers new mobility options like the Winger, but in your melee slot.
you can’t use melee effectively
It works well with weapons like the soda popper, force a nature, or any secondary that isn't a pistol.
Its good to Spy check too, and Its better to use the bat to finish someone off instead of reloading another shot, but It depends on the Range, the other reason to use It: Its really fun to kill someone with It.
In my experience, I actually view melees as an efficient spychecker. Sandman's health downgrade may overpower its already very poor baseball gimmick, but so far the baseball is pretty good at slowing down fleeing spies (especially headshotting a spy with it). I've been matador'ed/sidestabbed several times but at that point, Spy's cover has already been blown and alerted to my team's presence. (Edit: forgot to mention its also a decent spykiller, provided you aren't in backstab range)
Scout can one shot them with his shotgun, or take 4 wacks with his bat to do the same thing, even with a bigger hit box the melee animation is so off what they show it's much harder to land
@@nobody08088 Probably the best argument point here
HOLY SHIT your SFM skills are amazing my guy keep up the good work
For the sandman stun: I think the „stun“ u get from ghosts (able to move around, maybe bit slower, but no weapons) woukd be an interesting idea
My idea is that Moonshots are insta-kill unless you're Ubered.
Well, that IS actually how the old Sandman functioned. It fucking sucked to fight against. It didn’t take effort to use, and hitting someone would stun them, iirc correctly even if they were ubered. No risk for the Scout, and really huge reward in the form of disabling a target for a few seconds. Stun mechanics aren’t fun.
@@CordeliaJozefa as i know, the old stun was similar to the arrow impale taunt stun or am i just too new to know it?
@@TheKalashnidude It depended on your distance, the more distance it travels, the more time it makes you stay in humiliation mode. and if you did a moonshot only then it would be a complete stun like arrow impale
@@CordeliaJozefa No risk for the Scout? Are you sure? That -15hp made dying surprisingly a lot easier pushing you across certain damage thresholds in particular, and it didn't help that the sandman dedicated you to targeting an enemy once you'd hit them. An enemy player stunned would be perfectly fine if with their team against the Scout. Exactly like the current Scout. All the sandman did was make you more powerful at the expense of being weaker. It was a fun, glass-cannon weapon that wasn't meant to be taken seriously like so many compies today think it should.
I would argue the cleaver combo was OP, given it would dish out a flat 150 damage, killing 5 of the classes instantly, killing an additional three after a short duration, and leaving one of the 9 classes extremely crippled. But the sandman on its own was nowhere near as overpowered as the combo, and it DID take skill to get effective hits on enemies, contrary to current belief. It was only effective at mid-to-long range. Too close and it would do nothing, and too far you would not catch up to the target before you got there.
Idea for the Fan of War: For a normal hit, have the fan be lengthened a tiny bit like less than the swords and deal more knockback on players to keep them away (giving scout an alternative to the force of nature and an escape tool), and/or give it a rage meter like soldier's banners that raises with damage dealt, then when the meter is full, you can wave the fan to "throw" a gust of wind that'll mark anyone it hits for death. That way it keeps its use in mvm (even makes it better, and maybe you can make the gust bigger with an upgrade) while making it useful for the utility of a push (like a slower version of jarate)
I like the Atomizer and Wrap Assassin.
The Boston Basher is also good because it has a sick-ass sword reskin.
Why use a puny sword when you can use a spiked club?
@@Sr_ECO AKA small morning star, or more colorfully, “holy water sprinkler.” Much cooler than the letter opener.
@@eMercody morning stars are more like maces with spikes, and clubs most of the time are made of wood, but i agree with you, they're way cooler and more effective in most situations
@@Sr_ECO The morning star that dominates fantasy is actually quite rare, and historically two handed spiked clubs were morning stars. Apparently it’s very easy and cheap to put spikes in wood.
Funnily enough fantasy has hit flails in the exact same way; the historical version is also two handed wood, usually with added spikes into the farming implement. On that note, scythes converted for warfare is a heartbreak with the blade rotated 90 degrees to be spear like.
@@eMercody i know, a normal scythe would be really ineffective and awkard to use in battle, as for the clubs, you're talking about something like the kanabo, right?
*Sandman:*
When a player is hit by the ball, it does an invisible explosion that does no damage. Those players that are caught in the explosion (including the victim that has been hit by the ball) will be highlighted for everyone to see!
Hmmmmm that could potentially work I mean it would fit the role of a real life scout
Do you think a Wallhack providing melee is smart?
Isn’t that literally just the fan o war?
"if you have a consistent ping" its over for me
I think the sandman’s ball should do more damage, like 65 at point blank, and 40 at longest range, and then have some kind of bonus after a kill, which would make it an interesting finisher.
You only think of the personal utility a weapon, you don't think about teamwork situations, which is exactly the reason why the fan o war is "only" viable in MvM, while the sun on a stick and the fan o war are not THE META™ they still can offer utility that is sometimes better then the Boston basher or the wrap assassin, starting with the sun on a stick:
This weapon allows for much better match-ups with and against pyro's, with higher resistance to fire, and higher damage output against targets on fir-"that Stat is useless, if the target is on fire, then it's probably already targeted and so, dead"...
-scorch shot, flare gun, detonator
-pyro with a flamethrower backing up because he's at half health and not in a position to continue the fight
-huo long heater and cow mangler
All of these weapons can set on fire and not guarantee the death of the target, that's where you can shine, with the sun on a stick, which has almost the same dps (158 for SoS, 168 for SC) "but then what's the point of using it, I could just shoot them", there's multiple reasons, starting with:
-you can keep your bullets ready for the next fight
- it kills light classes faster (two attacks for each, but 1sec compared to 1,25sec)
-bypasses vaccinator resistances
-since it uses no ammunition, if the fight keeps going for longer, it has the higher dps, making it work quite well with the mad milk
-far easier to hit compared to the scattergun (and if just one bullet misses, the scatter gun becomes weaker compared to SoS)
I know all pub stomper like to play solo, or if they don't it's with a vaccinator medic (which this weapon counters quite well) but a decent pyro burning people at a distance, a sun on a stick can destroy the enemy team.
Now for the Fan o war, it definitely doesn't serve the same fighting role the other melee have, and while at first the marking ability could seem not worth it, mini crit comes with the ability to NEGATE completely damage fall-off on top of the +50%, this means you don't have to be in the face of the enemy to deal 151 damage with a rocket, one shotting medics, scout engineer, sniper, spy...
"but then why not just shoot them, they're in front of me" good question, maybe cause that's an ubered soldier and I would have no chance of killing him by myself, so rather, I tag them and leave with the bullets still in my gun, making them as frail as a butterfly (and so pretty much unable to fight) for 15 seconds. That's a lot more then what some of the respawn time would take, at this point, they would be better off just to die, so they can remove the effect, because that doesn't get affected by supply cabinets or anything else, for 15 seconds, you could just get snipped by a pyro shotgun and be unable to do anything about it, it might not be the greatest combat weapon for you, but for your allies, this is an amazing effect to get, against a pub stomper, you might as well have rendered their MVP worthless for a 1/4th of a minute
A slightly better jump in exchange for 75 health. FANTASTIC!
9:17 guess the average tf2 player punch does 3 less damage than the wrap assassin smacks
I have always been confused why the wrap assassin was hated
Me too
i think soundsmith said it was bad or something like that
people kept shitting on the wrap assassin because the sandman was overpowered. people only noticed how good the wrap assassin is when the sandman got nerfed into irrelevance and some youtubers spoke up.
1:25 rip engie
quick note here is that the atomizer is mainly used by more experienced players to jump around an enemy such as a soldier in order to avoid damage while throwing off tracking. Most players who used this to get to spaces they previously couldnt are not appreciating the wide array of uses the atomizer has in a player vs player situation
I fell for the “wrap assassin is bad” meme for years as well wish I used it more sooner
babe wake up new notsamg video
holy shit the weezer jumpscare took me aback a second lmao
Re: the triple jump, i find that when you're not used to the extra mobility you simply don't see all the new paths which suddenly unlocked for you, but when you've used it for a little while it lets you basically be as mobile as a rocket jumping soldier
I'll list my opinion on every single one here because I think that's what you are looking for - feedback
Bat: Thanks for taking it out of the wilderness and showing how it's actually a fine melee. I myself like it but usually use the Candy Cane or Wrap Assassin instead as they grant me more utility.
Sandman: I wish this was a good option. I think removing the slow and increasing the damage even more than you suggested could be a good option, so you could choose between strong burst damage or a DoT effect.
Wrap Assassin: I myself find using this melee the most since another ranged option seems very enticing to me. Also it works scarily well with the Baby Face's Blaster. Thanks for pointing out that this melee is really fucking good, and thanks for shouting out one of my favourite TF2 youtubers (FSoaS)
Atomizer: I find this melee sluggish. The deploy penalty completely kills it for me, I can't get any utility out of it. Maybe it's just me, but the only reason I use it is if I want to meme with the jump mini-crits in a trade server. I myself love the Winger so I use that for mobility more. However, it's still good. I guess.
Boston Basher: I hate this weapon. The bleed on hit is not effective enough in a firefight and the uber build is too situational for a flank-heavy player like me and I suck at melee so all I do is keep missing and I don't like that. However, if it works for you that's cool. I just don't really get much use out of this, only self-damage.
Candy Cane. Thanks for pointing out how good this thing is. I feel like the increased explosive damage is how it always is at this point and I don't notice it unless if a soldier or demoman deletes me with one shot at close range. The healthkits are huge and have saved me and my teammates many times. If I am not using the Wrap Assassin, I am using this. Also no damage penalty means you can use it like the bat. The only thing I don't like is how it makes the same sound as the bat despite it being a fucking piece of peppermint candy. Add another sound effect.
Sun-on-a-Stick: This thing sucks. Can't go around it. I really don't get any use out of this ever. I never use it. Thanks for snapping us back to reality I guess.
Fan o'War: I myself find that I somehow aim better against marked enemies and I like supporting my team by appearing randomly and marking an enemy frontliner so I guess I get more use out of this than you do. Since I don't use melee all the time, I don't lose much by giving up three quarters of that damage and mini-crits can be the Hail Mary that wins me or my teammates the battle. I think the Sun-on-a-Stick is worse for me, but I am in no place to argue as you clearly are better than me at Scout by several magnitudes.
Great video btw, you have gone a long way since the primary discussion. I never got bored while watching any of your videos and I will stay here to see what you do next. Just don't let burnout get you, I guess. Stay safe.
This is really means a lot, I'm glad you've seen improvement since scout's primary problems (I hate that vid). If you ever have anymore feedback on anything, let me know, it's always greatly appreciated.
The atomizer is the most broken melee lol, the deploy time isn't even a relevant downside if you pull it out in the right moments, it can make scout really unpredictable and can allow for some sick plays from time to time (it allows way quicker travel and control of the high ground + it can be used mid combat just fine to gain an advantage)
My biggest issue with the candycane is this:
If you're good enough that the damage penalty doesn't mean anything, you're good enough to not need the health pack.
FoW is kind of pointless, at least for the stock Scattergun.
Sure, if you hit a Heavy with a Fan o' War he will now die to two rockets or pills instead of three
But if you meatshot him instead, you'll drop him to 195 HP and he'll still die to two rockets or pills.
Watch Vorobey's video about the fan o' war with the winger. See it in it's full glory when solo.
Marked for death plus winger shots are so painful and you don't have to worry near as much about the clip reduction because they are already dead.
No better backup combo for one someone pops up on you after you just emptied your shotgun into someone and have no time to reload.
It allows for that big winger upside to be even bigger and takes away most of it's down side.
When I found out you could stack the bleed of the wrap assassin and guillotine I pretty much exclusively used it just to bully snipers with bleed
The Sun on a Stick is better than you think, you just not know how to effectively utilize it.
In defense of the fan it pairs REALLY well with the baby face and winger, if you pepper someone from long range with the winger you get the speed boost and with that you can mark someone faster and not worry about losing the boost because of the extra damage
It pairs well with the BFB, but have you tried BFB fan _cleaver_? Shit's insane
why we talk bout bfb when the 2 burst dmg guns pair so well it does 250 dmg in 2 shots
Ok but when people say the fan o war is bad, I go “haha crit a cola goes brrr”
The crits don’t stack though
just stumbled upon this series. Amazing choice in music and editing. Amazing in general!
I had an idea for a rebalance of the sandman. Basically instead of any form of slowdown mechanic (because that mechanic should have never existed in the first place in ANY GAME) It forces the opponent to take more damage. So whenever you get hit by the sandman ball, your are given a damage vulnerability ranging from 5% at point blank to 20%. And moonshots mark for death. This would make the sandman way more viable, especially around your team as long as you call out who you hit.
that's just the fan but with range.
@@AziSlays Exactly, I was thinking that could be an alternative to the Fan but with a higher difficulty. Imagine being able to mark an enemy your team is chasing down and struggling to kill and you manage to land the moonshot and give the player mini-crits. Also imagine that with the mad milk.
MY IDEA FOR THE SAND MAN ITS -15 HELTH AT CLOSE RANG THE BALL SLOWS BUT AT MID RANG IT HALF STUNS AND AT LONG RAGE IT STUNS FULY AND 25 PRESENT DAMINDG PENALTY ON THE BAT
i unnironicly love using that mini crit stat on the atomizer it basically gives you worse market gardens and i love it
To make the sandman more unique, you could have the bat do full crits on players slowed by the ball. Afterall, the sandman has unique hitsounds and voicelines when the scout hits someone with it,
10:20 I agree that the extra mobility this weapon gives you isn’t superb, except for a few spots like you said, but I like whipping it out in the middle of fights with a demo or a soldier because they’re probably not expecting you to be able to jump a third time and it’s going to throw off there aim
Scouts melees in a nutshell:
Bat: why would you use this
Sandman: bruh
Wrap assassin: the only good scout melee
Atomizer: who uses this I have never met one person who uses this
"Balanced for comp, balanced for casual." Vaccinator, base jumper, etc.
8:48
"If it's balanced for comp, it's balanced for casual"
The vaccinator:
Saying a tf2 players punch can deal 12 damage means that your average tf2 player can kill a heavy in 25 punches, and a scout in 11.
The sandman used to be my favorite weapon for the scout overall when I used to play. Still stings that I came back after a few years to find it completely neutered. One idea I had to make it a bit more balanced is to scale its effects with range more heavily, making it have a stun effect similar to the post game state (I forgot which update it had this but go back to that) but only on a moonshot. Targets up close would be slowed minorly and take maybe 10 damage, with the slow and damage scaling up with range up to 35 damage and a reduction in speed comparable to a heavy, and 40 damage plus stun on a moonshot. At those long ranges scout doesn't have many options to follow up himself but it would provide him some team support from long range, and up close it would be much less abusable and instead would be more of a tool to allow the scout's speed advantage to shine more.
I've got a couple of ideas to make the Sandman and SoaS quite viable:
Sandman MK2
-25 max HP
Alt-fire: Launch a baseball to attack enemies (Base damage: 80, 15 second cooldown)
+100% crit chance on Moonshots and Headshots.
Sun on a Stick MK 2
Alt-fire: Launch a fireball that explodes on contact (30 damage, 250 HU AoE, 10 second cooldown) and sets enemies on fire for 10 seconds
+100% crit chance on burning targets
-50% damage penalty against non-burning targets
i like the sun on a stick idea
The song choice in this video is criminally underrated
"If it's balanced for comp it's balanced for casual"
Pubstomping snowball weapons are a fantastic counter-example. Kunai, Bargain, Eyelander, Diamondback, Phlog/Sorch Shot. Fine in comp, overpowered in casual.
In defence of the Fan O War, it can allow you to deal ~300 damage with the Soda Popper in one hit at point blank.
No it can't. If you land both shots then it's around 260-280, but there is no universe where 1 shot does 300.
?REDDITORS ASSEMBLE!!!!"
Da Funny. 9:00
Your music >>>
Alright the Fan o' War is NOT the worst bat. Sun on a Stick still takes that cake.
I have flashbacks to a time when I would play semi-organized games with a Discord group. I would play heavy a lot for these games. One night, there was this scout with the Fan. He admittedly wasn't very good at the whole shooting thing, so he instead would mark people with the Fan.
He was the bane of my existence.
TL;DR, with even the slightest amount of team communication, a Fan scout can completely nullify a key threat.
From my experience, I used the stock bat as a last resort.
Some of the best music choices I've heard in a video, definitely one of the videos of all time. 🙏🙏
I think the Sandman could be give the person who was hit by the ball knockback, similar to the Loose Cannon. Could be a good keep away weapon with that.
I really like the idea of having the Sandman's ball mark the enemy for death. It's like a long-range fan-o-war but it has to charge to balance it out. Plus, the cleaver combo is balanced again.
I love pairing the Fan o War and the flying guillotine to mark someone for desth, hit em with the guillotine, and run off as they get mini crit bled
You know what we need?
a buff (or re-work wink wink) to the sun of a stick
And more proyectile based melee weapons for the scout
Throw the ball thingy and set people in fire, keep the crits in burning players and give it a long cooldown.
“Scouts melees aren’t good for dps!”
Scouts 35 damage melees: Have a higher dps than other melees
The boston basher makes people bleed on hit, while there is the wrap assassin which is a projectile that makes enemies bleed.
What if the sandman ball marked people for death, like a long range version of the fan-o-war.
the downside is already significantly more dangerous so it could work
Another banger, keep it up king
Putting alt rock and MF DOOM over TF2 gameplay goes hard.
The worst thing about the wrap assassin wad the fact whenever the balk came into contact with a bounding box it would instantly break so points, last points on payload maps, ETC the ball would just break in your face and cause 15 damage to you. Shounic explains it better (It's fixed now but back then this is what would happen)
The sun on a stick would be fun if scout had a molotov cocktail like the mad milk that you just throw and it inflicts afterburn
There is a 2fort community server that’s a revamped version of it with a stat for the sun on a stick pairing really well with the mad milk
I like the stock bat because hiding near the spawn room of turbine in the little cubby next to the vent, and then killing any unfortunate snipers with my bat that walk by, is really funny
16:58
My man, amazing logic you got there
that intro clip of the engi getting killed by his senty is cool, very funny
BLU Heavy: Talks
What appears: Person on RED Talking
*realistic*
I believe in boston basher supremacy
(copy and paste from a bad weapon academy cause i'm too lazy to change this) (This is a lot btw cause I'm a huge nerd that loves thinking about balance mechanics ;P)
I have some ideas on how the sandman could be buff, I have no idea how to utilize it cause it seems shit
First remove bring the Scout back to 125 obviously
Second, I want it so if the Scout doesn't throw his ball he's bat is also special. It will act as a sort of airblast meaning it can reflect projectiles. Also the bonk taunt can reflect projectiles.
And the ball, many things can be done with the ball to be honest. I could go where it feels like the Scout is actually trying to be a batter with it, or just go ape shit on the idea.
Batter Scout: The ball is kinda like a reverse direct hit, it barely does damage on a direct hit but has big splash damage (More damage the explosion is). When the ball lands on the ground, it will explode doing big damage. But if the ball hits a player or a building, it won't explode and instead make the Scout lose 1/3 of his health (Not being able to kill him) (Also a little meter in the right hand corner) (The ball can be a tiny bit slower in mid-air). The ball hitting a player would be like a strike for Scout punishing him for the pitcher catching the ball. Now you could heal yourself if you get 3 strikes but if you continue to bat you'll be marked for death and the ball won't explode (If the ball hits an enemy the scout will no longer lose health, it basically becomes the regular sandman lmao). A good downside to this is that Scout's second jump is reduced by like idk, %25, this is because the explosion on impact can allow Scout to do a Ball jump. You might be asking "Why would you let the ball even get near the enemy?" SO it can do greater explosion damage to them but it also risks you get a strike.
+ When thrown, ball will explode on ground
+ If the bat is used without ball, if reflect projectiles on hit
+ %33 resistance to your own ball
+ Has small chance to bleed for 1 second if the bat hits a player (splinter)
- If ball hits an enemy or enemy building, ball will not explode
- If ball hits an enemy or enemy building, Scout will lose 40 health (Cannot kill Scout)
- After ball hits an enemy or enemy building 3 times, ball will not explode on ground
- After ball hits an enemy enemy building 3 times, scout will be marked for death
- Double jump decreased by %25 cause I don't know anything about these percentages
My idea of Sandman:
Let the ball do fire damage. Literally only 2 weapons outside of Pyro does fire damage. When the ball is thrown, Scout bats it so hard it cartoonishly lights on fire setting people on fire. A downside to this bs idk, having being holstered slower with no random crits
ig this makes scout a gun pyro, cool
+ If the bat is used without ball, if reflect projectiles on hit
+ Has small chance to bleed for 1 second if the bat hits a player (splinter)
+ Ball when thrown gives enemy afterburn
+ Weapon is holstered ??% slower
+ no Random crits, bad random crits
I disagree completely about your melee attack point. You're essentially banking on the enemy being a terrible player. Melee using the collision box doesn't make it more consistent since it has windup and terrible range/damage.
I don't see how you're banking on them being bad lol, what are they gonna do, outsmart a hitscan attack? What if you've run out of scattergun ammo at a bad time and you're running something like the mad milk or one of the colas? Sure a charged bonk might save you but only if you can survive a drink and that's assuming it's even charged, the melees are a fantastic and consistent option for up close damage when retreat is less optimal than simply killing the guy, which means that like every other weapon in tf2 they have situational strengths and weaknesses. It's not about the other guy being terrible, it's about hopefully killing him faster than he kills you, which is a hell of a lot easier to do when you're a scout that jumps and runs around like a squirrel on crack, even with the lower damage/windup. Even if you're not, though, it's still better than attempting a retreat at a bad time and getting killed before you can escape, not every situation is retreatable after all.
I agree with you but i still like to use the melle weapon as a weapon bc somehow i find it very funny to kill someone with scouts melle
I think you should make a channel to talk about your opinion i would really appreciate it
3:07 so projectile hit detection sees if the box that keeps a player in bounds touched the projectile
14:16 I see you are Talking Heads enjoyer.
Damnit, Sam, i had shit to do today, but now i have to go watch through Song Machine again.
7:55 I think a roblox fangame of tf2 called typical colors 2 actually re-balanced the sandman really well just by simplifying it, it doesn't have health reduction, the way the slow works makes it a more defensive weapon to catch someone pushing prematurely/trying to escape. the admittedly small damage reduction makes it balanced enough, due to the fact that in that game, melees are actually decent for scout
Bro Ive been binging your vids and as a 10 year scout main I completely agree w your lists, s tier opinions. Except I don’t mind the fan, I’m one of the scouts you told to put my melee back in my pants so marking ppl for death w a hit and them blasting them to hell gives me the dopamine. But I usually just use the conscious objector bc funny picture sign funny
An idea on how to make the sandman balanced: (This is a lot btw cause I'm a huge nerd that loves thinking about balance mechanics ;P)
-Bring the Scout back up to 125
- Make the bat swing slightly slower
- It holsters slower
- random crits become mini crits (Or no random crits if you want)
-( You could want it so if the Scout doesn't throw his balls his bat is also special. It will act as a sort of airblast meaning it can reflect projectiles. Also the bonk taunt can reflect projectiles.) not recommended tho
- Give the scout 3 balls (as a reference to the 3 strike system in baseball) that each individually recharge over a duration of 20 seconds once each is thrown
- The balls do 35 damage each, that's it (it's good for longer ranges)
- Can headshot (Doing idk, 70 damage)
it is actually possible, if only in extremely controlled environments, to use the sandman ball to hit a pipe and deflect it. I believe shounic has done it.
At least the fan is good in mvm, the sun on a stick has nothing without a pyro on the team. and the fan can give you 5 seconds of mini crits on someone without taking mini crits yourself
Fan-O-War is really good with the shortstop.
for the sandman i think they should make you go slower depending on the distance up close its not that useful and a moon shots makes them not be able to move (they can still shoot which negates the you don't get to play the game part)
Full stop; the dude who heard "I have IBS" and replied "Are you, by chance, a bottom?" is crazy
an idea ive had for the sandman is instead of the ball stunning, hitting your opponent with the bat 3 times stuns them (the opponent would get a strike count so they know how close they are to getting stunned) and maybe the ball can increase the counter but not stun.
but i dont know if that'd be just as annoying as the old sandman. ive never really seen anyone complain about how gunslinger gets a crit on the 3rd hit so maybe it'd be a little better.
I’m sure we can all agree that the funny newspaper fish is the best scout melee
if the sun on a stick swaped stats with the vocano fragment they would be much better overall
the new sun on a stick could act as a more safe alternative to the boston basher at the cost of some utility.
the ne volcano fragment could act as a powerful finisher tool but at the cost of say 25% less damage and 50% more damage taken from fire to act as a more risky sidegrade to the axetinguisher.
THE FAN O WAR IS PERFECT FOR HEAVIES WHAT ARE YOU ON BRO
I personally love the boston basher and the candycane. However I do think the candy cane is a bit too punishing. I believe the explosive vuleravility should be nerfed to 15%
the boston basher is pretty much a direct upgrade from stock if your good with it if you think about it. literally the only downside only hinders you if your bad at the game. no vulnerabilities, no deploy speed penalties, no health drain, just "if you miss you hit yourself which can easily be negated with any kind of healing"
Sun on a Stick should give full afterburn immunity
Your music taste is so good, and so is that video. Well done =)
8:02 i have 3 ideas on what the sandman can do then slowing ppl
1: reverses enemies controlls for 2 seconds
2: scout gains 25 health and a speed boost evry time he hits a crit with ball
3: scout gets an extra jump when he hits with ball
the sandman is worse that he fan o war, if you have the fan o war equipped just dont use it. but if you have the sandman you have a shitty ball and even if you dont use the weapon your health is decreased.
Fan can be used as an eff this guy and get out like vs a heavy, and if its a team fight you can milk and mark them like mvm, but its also a drive by weapon, since you can’t get rid of the marked and it’s 15 seconds so this basically eliminates someone on the flank four that entire duration
Fun fact the wrap assasins bleed works with the critacola, what i mean is that the bleed minicrits
The Fan o' War is truly the 5e "True Strike" of TF2
Intro music is called "5/4" by Gorillaz.
The real lore is the Heavy in the beginning of the video is actually a disguised red spy.
I thought candy cane was general damage vulnerability not just explode. Might be interesting to try out for a bit
Idea for the sandman:
Stats
Lets you throw a ball that stuns enemys based on the damage
The flying guillotine deals mini-crits on slowed enemys
The bat deal mini-crits on slowed enemys
The ball mini-crits when its in the air for 1 seconds and crits on 2 seconds
-20% damage penalty on the bat
-25% firing speed penalty
No random critcal hits on the ball and
Random critical hits on the bat mini-crit
Unlisted stats
The ball deals 30 damage
(I know this video is over two years old so I’m probably talking to a wall, but here goes)
Okay, I have a few ideas that I think would improve Scout’s “bad” melees. Firstly, and I’m taking this idea from someone else, the Sandman should inflict minicrits on whoever it hits instead of slowing, full stop, and it should Ricki Shay off opponents like the Demo’s Cannon Primary to make sure the idea of inflicting minis on multiple enemies more viable and fun. To balance this it could be good to make sure the opponents hit after the first have less time spent marked for death or something but still it would be fun to further this idea of the Cannon. The Fan of War could be changed to fling opponents away instead of minicrit since it’s now the sandman’s job, so the FAN part will make sense, as well as justify the low damage rate. Scout is a vulnerable class and runs away A LOT, so it could be good to give him a more secure means of shooing away enemies if he has literally no means of defending himself. Perhaps it would be good to have a mechanic similar to Soldier’s pickaxes where the less health you have the more knockback it’ll do, but that’s just an idea. Lastly to make the Sun on a Stick better I think it would be cool to give Scout a fire related secondary to ensure he doesn’t NEED a pyro to make it work. Any weapon that is meant to be used for a single class is just kinda bad game design since most weapons should be viable for against all classes (spy is a bad class). Maybe a Molotov Cocktail that inflicts fire on a single enemy and that enemy spreads the fire to others from a trail they crate, with missing resulting in a small explosion that still causes fire but doesn’t give that specific benefit. Also maybe make the Sun’s range longer like Demo’s Axe to improve its viability/survivability for combos. The numbers could be tweaked but I still believe these options would be better than what we have now since these three melees are lame. This would also give each weapon a reason to be equipped. The sandman for minicrits, the wrap assassin for long range bleed, the atomic for mobility, the fan for knockback, the Boston badger for close range bleed and the sun on a stick for scout combos.
There, these all probably suck but hey what else are we gonna do?
WAIT for valve to do something?