PC12/45 Guardian Flight Security Camera Crash Audio
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- Опубліковано 29 вер 2024
- This Audio collected from a security camera (Dave from Stagecoach NV.) within 1/4 mile of the crash site provides a mountain of data to NTSB Accident Investigators. There was no video of the crash- too dark and snowy. Let's break it down...
Before asking any questions already covered, be sure you have seen ALL the videos (2 others) in this series.
Part I: • PC-12/45 N273SM Guardi...
Part II: • PC-12/45 NTSB UPDATE I...
NTSB B-Roll: • NTSB B-Roll: Investiga...
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Juan can you do a video about how you're dealing with the extended power outage?
Juan, do you believe that the public, in general, are entitled to hear the dying sounds of crew and passengers for their enjoyment?
@@mtkoslowski I don't think "enjoyment" is the right word. "Morbid fascination" seems more appropriate. Only a sadist would enjoy the dying sounds of anyone. And in this case, it's the sound of a plane dying.
@@blueeyeddevil1
No.
I would not be outraged had there not been discussion in other comments about applying sophisticated audio filters in an effort to isolate mechanical sounds from occupant generated noises. See for yourself.
Hi Juan, I agree that the AP likely disengaged (first video). Perhaps due to turbulence. If the aircraft had the original KFC 325 Automatic Flight Control System, the Pilots Guide on page 2-19 states: "The KDC 222 also contains a monitor that can be used to disconnect the autopilot if vertical acceleration of the aircraft exceeds a set limit determined during autopilot certification" . Additionally, I don't know if the AP is one of the items that is automatically shed in the event of the loss of GEN 1. Note: Unless it was upgraded, GEN 2 isn't capable of operating the de-icing equipment without overloading.
This is absolutely heart wrenching to listen to. I lost my son in a King Air crash 11/15/2021 in northern Michigan. This is the first accident related report that I’ve listened to since losing my son and I have to say, this is very difficult to digest. Being a corporate pilot myself, I am very familiar with all of this subject matter. I’ll be praying for the family who is grieving for the loss of this pilot. My son was only 21 and working on his Private pilot license. Never in a million years did I think I’d lose him in an airplane accident, I’ll never be the same that is for sure. Please pray for the pilot and passengers if any and his/her family. 🙏🙏
Prayers for you and your family.
Prayers for you brother
God bless your family, and prayers go out to you!
🙏🏼🙏🏼😔💜
The FAA could change many things very quickly and make flying a lot safer, but they don't. Follow the money, and you'll understand why.
Thanks, Juan. Tough subject matter to cover, but you do it professionally and well. Good luck getting through the power out conditions.
As a medical crew member who regularly flies on a PC12 that was the toughest thing I have ever listened to. I've been in severe turbulence at night in weather and Im sure that med crew was holding the patients hand and reassuring them right up until they went into a spin.
Man, I was just recalling those moments of the Galloping Ghost before you mentioned it in the video. Erie, memories; some of which I won’t ever truly forget. Interesting how this audio was able to pull those memories into my minds eye.
Ring door cameras are amazing. Rest in peace.
Easy to say since I wasn't flying the aircraft, but in some cases, the autopilot is your best friend... use it as a heading bug and maintain/adjust altitude as necessary.
Juan, Thank You for all you do.
The BIG question still remains:
What was the urgency of the flight ,so late at night, that it couldn't wait until first light the next day?
For you perhaps, ultimately though, those questions don't help. The real BIG question is why did a trained and certificated pilot lose control of a very capable SPIFR aircraft.
time critical medical emergencies happen all times of the day. there are a million different reasons this patient needed transport
@@mormonund3rwear You are 100% right but as a health care professional , and medevac pilot, the patient does not fly unless they are stabilized --full stop.
Even urgent organ transplants don't require an urgent flight with all the red flags that were there-
ie. icing , turbulence , mountainous terrain, single pilot IFR, an arrival close to midnight, etc.
@@alanjeroff8846 yes but you know its not up to the hospital to decide if you fly them, its the pilot and crew. strokes, heart attacks, neurosurgery etc are all conditions that deem flight. Theres only so much "stabilization"
That was hard to listen to... wow. RIP
Thanks Juan, and stay well.
I flew air ambulance in Hawaii for 6 years with two pilots in a C90 Kingair not because we had to but because we decided to due to past accidents like this. How soon we forget. Having a second pilot is far safer for any commercial IFR passenger ops. The bean counters and managers have blood on their hands and they know it.
Agreed, but congress, and their payers Boeing, and Airbus wants to make airliners single pilot.
Unbelievable sound Juan thanks for sharing. The question that really needs to be ask Was the patients life in danger if they would have waited until first light to take off in much better weather. Was the weather going to be worse the next day? Who ultimately made the decision that this fight had to go when it did? Was the loss of 5 lives worth the risk of saving one? Not to sound insensitive but in this day and age of we gotta blame someone for EVERYTHING the family and the general public needs these questions answered. Thoughts and Prayers for all the family members of those who died in this Crash.
Ultimately a go no go is up to the pilot.
Iam not understanding how this and a number of others happen if the plane has a working autopilot 😳🤔 surely a plane like this was so equipped. Anyone with insight or opinion? I won’t push weather but have flow in imc behind capable autopilots for years, so what’s going on here?
It should be the air operation that says if a flight leaves the ground. It has to be a tough call if someone's life is in balance. Does one chance the fate of gravity or call off the transfer? I hope everyone involved would make the same call if to do over again.
Worst nightmare. Knowing you're going to die.
Generally a fixed wing medical transport is inter facility. Hospital to hospital. While they will be undertaken because a patient requires some level of advanced or specialized care, the patient has to be reasonably stable for transport. A few hours or even a few days would be unlikely to make a difference in outcome. This differs from helicopter medivac transport, which is often picking up a severe trauma patient from near the incident scene and taking them to a trauma center. Hoping to benefit from the “golden hour”. While any patient can take a bad turn during transport, for most long haul or fixed wing transfers the medical assessment is made that they are stable enough for the trip before they even start seeking to schedule it. The medical team picking the patient up will also confirm this evaluation. Look at the aircraft. Not a lot of room to do CPR in it.
Mike-Good points. Remember SLC is only 500 miles from Reno. In bad weather, medical companies opt for an ambulance..
Wow, what a horrifying sound. Definitely time for some BIG changes at that flight company, that's for sure. Thanks, Juan.
Thank goodness the owner of the audio realized they had captured highly relevant data. Agree with BL their has to be a self-imposed exceedence of standard of aviation care_safety protocols. May the victims RIP and peace upon their families.
“Earwitness” first time’ I’ve heard that term. Thank you for mustering through a power outage for us. Take care.
that was a haunting sound , you can hear a different change twice as it came down . god bless all on board.
TWO PILOTS!!!... YES. As paramedic and a private pilot, I hate to see this happen.
So the comments on the last video were correct?
This plane model was known for kicking out autopilot in turbulence.
When the plane lost autopilot, the pilot lost control.
Where's the second pilot? In Canada there is two pilots in air ambulance work in PC12NG.
Thanks for continuing to provide legit content! I hope to one day fly
Always get me, why we have to wait for something bad to happen several times before start making changes in the system? Why???
The one sound I never hope to hear is a increasingly high pitched prop on an IMC conditioned day.
Ouch! Hearing that hurts. There but for the...
Very difficult to listen to. I flew helicopter EMS (HEMS) for the contracting company in Reno for almost 20 years. It is stressed in all operations that safety comes first. I was NEVER pressured to fly. The floght conditions at thevtime ofbthe accident were well within the capabilities of the airplane andbpilot. It was snowing and no doubt they encounteted icing and at least moderatr turbulance. Its very unfortunate this outcome. They were all my friends. I hate to speculate on the "why", but i would guess a second pilot may have prevented the crash.
Omg. That made my the hair on my neck stand up. Being a corporate/charter pilot who flies the PC12 often that really hits hard.
And to the people who know nothing about aircraft or aviation. Go find something else to try and claim your 15 minutes, instead of making shit up about what you saw/heard. Turbines don’t “sputter.” Makes my blood boil. Pathetic.
I suspect the single pilot operation has two primary reasons for being the norm. First is weight: Air Ambulance flights have to carry more and crews cannot be heavy. Try telling a family their loved one cannot fly to get the care they need because they weigh too much and so will instead die. Second is economy: Flying is expensive, and so are the crews. Companies get paid by the flight, but crews get paid for their time on duty and the company has to cover that cost. Add maintenance, fuel, hangar and base expenses, you get the idea. A bigger aircraft is more expensive across the board. An extra pilot, too. Air ambulance companies don't pay as much as airlines because they aren't as profitable. You can't fix what happened here by arbitrarily saying "add another pilot". The second and third order effects from that decision will be significant and farther reaching than you think.
Guardian is, at least for the moment, requiring two pilots. I hope they make it permanent. The only thing more expensive than safety is an accident.
I understand Guardian has halted all flights since the crash.
Hearing that crash audio was sickening, to get rid of the lower frequency put the audio through dehummer (Adobe Premiere audio filter) and pull down the lower frequencies to hear the engine and airframe noise only. I bet the FAA is looking really carefully at this Air Ambulance operation now, let's hope they set up some absolute minimum standards to stop these sorts of crashes
There are macabre sounds that anyone beyond the NTSB do not need to hear, don’t you think?
We’re adults and don’t need to hide from reality.
You have every opportunity to not watch the video. What did you think you were going to hear when he said they had the audio of the crash?
@@cfagerstrom
I expected to hear sounds relating to identifying the cause of the crash. I did not want to hear anything beyond that which might relate to the horror of the passengers and crew when they uttered their last sounds on this earth in the full knowledge that they were going to die, which sounds undoubtedly give erections to ghouls such as yourself.
Have you no shame man? Have you no humanity?
@@mtkoslowski no.
That was sure a sickening sound to me. Thank you FO Browne.
Agreed
I was going to post the same comment. Very difficult to listen to.
indeed... 😟
It gave me the chills listening to that, RIP to all onboard.
Listening to that was spine tingling, as you think of those on board and what they must have been thinking. RIP to the 5 people who died.
Chilling, thank you for reporting the facts and explaining the sad situation so sensitively. RIP to the victims.
One needs to analyze tragedies dispassionately or one risks repeating them.
@blancolirio the autopilot on the legacy PC-12 tend to give up easily in turbulence. I've experienced many an uncommanded disconnect in light - moderate turbulence in legacy birds.
I could easily see an unrecognized disconnect being the initial upset (out of trim and distracted while checking on the med crew/patient).
3,500 + hours in PC-12 day/night/IMC 135/91 mostly single pilot.
For the life of me, I cannot understand why this sort of useful information is demonetized when they allow all sorts of garbage that is not the least bit useful. This type information can affect changes in operational procedures that saves lives.
There is no logic or rational thinking in San Fransisco where UA-cam is HQ'd.
Advertisers don't want their brands associated with death or accidents. UA-cam is not an educational platform, its an advertising platform.
Correct, If it can’t make money ,You Tube doesn’t want it..
@@LuvBorderCollies and there you have the major problem. Very well put.
@@jamesharris9816 brands are stupid. I’ll never understand the logic of “we don’t want our brand associated with”
Associated with? Like people are going to tie fucking Kellogg’s to plane crashes? Everyone alive knows the ads have nothing to do with the content of the video, people by the millions want to see certain content and represent a ton of eyeballs that could be seeing that advertising. Just moronic. Marketers need to be fired and forced to clean out septic tanks for the rest of their lives for ruining everything with their stupidity
As a professional Pilot this was the most difficult thing to listening to the end.
I agree, and it is probably one of the most important. That's why they do case study reviews during recurrent training.
I feel you! My chest compresses listening to this and imagining the shear panic inside.
I always feel so bad for the passengers. I had to look up the information. May they rest in peace.: 'A single-engine Pilatus PC12 was heading from Reno to Salt Lake City on Feb. 24 when investigators say it broke apart. It plummeted to the ground near rural Stagecoach, 40 miles (64 kilometers) southeast of Reno. The dead included pilot, Scott Walton, 46, and two medical crew members, Edward Pricola, 32, and Ryan Watson, 27. The patient was Mark Rand, 69. His wife, Terri Rand, 66, had been accompanying him.'
Yeah the FAA is really failing the public here. We've all had it drilled into us how astronomically safe flying is these days but the reality is that its pt 121 thats incredibly safe. 135 less so and 91 is basically motorcycling
@@AntonEMaes I'd disagree.
@@cefb8923 On what part do you disagree?
I cant help but wonder what was so urgent that they had to move the patient at that hour in low ifr. It’s not like they were going from a small rural city, how was there not sufficient care to wait until better conditions…
I agree with Greg Johnson. And why is it that you disagree? Enlighten us, or are you just trolling?
Shit, you want two pilots? We can't even get new aircraft. History keeps repeating itself here. 15 plus year old rotary wing aircraft at this program. If there's one thing I've ever learned in EMS, if safety costs, you ain't getting it. That being said, everybody at this program does the best they can with what they got. RIP to those lost on this Guardian Flight crash. Absolutely sad to hear that aircraft out of control.
@@christophergagliano2051 Unless you've lived it this is totally normal and SOP at most EMS programs. Two pilots is very rare. Asking for two pilots from a business standpoint is never going to happen. I think I lot of people don't understand that most EMS operations are a business.
@@christophergagliano2051 Dude, at this program we used to have min requirements for pilots to get hired on. Now every pilot gets hired on with a waiver. We can't hardly get any pilots let alone hiring two pilots per ship. In all the years I've been doing this I've seen program aircraft that were originally two pilot get turned into single pilot IFR and the crews went ape shit over it. But guess what, the program wins because it's a business. I can see both sides of it. I'd love for every program to have the best newest equipment and have the fullest staff for the best safety but at the end of the day it's unrealistic.
Incredible that a security camera was able to capture the audio so clearly and definitively
That’s what I was thinking! Amazing it could catch that at 18,000+feet.
Sound travels exceptionally well in a damp atmosphere,
It's called having 24-hour cameras than this motion clip crap.
Juan knows his stuff. During my IFR training, under the hood, the instructor gave me a complex problem to solve as we approached an intersection hold. As I approached the intersction/fix my mind turned to jello due to the complexity of the entry and my lack of experience. I completely lost it and had I been single pilot in actual IMC I am sure the outcome would have been tragic. It sure taught me a lesson about how easy it is to lose control when the situation exceeds my personal limits. Thanks for this graphic reminder.
Except the pilot here was not approaching an intersection hold…. the autopilot, if he had it on likely would have switched off due to turbulence. From there, it became a matter of believing in the instrumentation. That’s why they’re on the panel. Maybe pitot air froze. Maybe had instrument failure, but probably not.
@@marthakrumboltz2710 Maybe overwhelmed by ice.
@@Cwra1smith Juan said in a previous video he didn't think so due to the plane being in the hangar prior to takeoff and the deicing boot thingies on the wings' leading edges of this aircraft.
@@Cwra1smith A Pilatus being overwhelmed by ice is very far-fetched IMO.
@@mwhe3111 Having lived up north for much of my life I'd say that hangaring an aircraft doesn't necessarily mean a positive effect. It can mean the opposite. At least with automobiles leaving a garage can have the opposite effect, meaning that snow/rain/moisture clings onto the surface and forms into ice there. A warm surface can melt snow and gather up that water somewhere for it to then freeze. Also bringing a car from the cold into a garage can mean moisture being trapped in many places, waiting to freeze once it's taken outside again.
A cold surface lets the snow just brush off, it doesn't cling, it doesn't interact nearly as much with the surface. A fully cold machine doesn't trap moisture all over, including inside small nooks and crannies.
Juan, I was talking with an A&P mechanic who works for Guardian Air at their repair facility here in Blanding, Utah about this incident, and he was telling me that some of their planes now have cameras in the cockpit. He was unaware whether or not this particular airplane did or not.
A couple of strategically located automotive dash-cams would go a long way to helping investigations. What are they, a couple hundred bucks?
@@jonathanrabbitt True - but would we be able to get data out of them after a serious crash like this? Part of the recording is to put the media in a really tough box back in the tail where it has a higher likelihood of surviving.
@@dermick Only a micro SD card needs to survive. it's a cheap interim measure.
@@dermick Yhe me ory cards can handle very hard crashes. It's fire they can't handle.
But one issue with many such devices is buffering - how many seconds of video that is kept in volatile RAM before written to the memory card. Buffering is common because it gives less wear on the memory card. But airplanes tends to crash way harder than cars so anything not written before the impact will be lost. In a car crash, the electronics will normally survive and have time to flush the last part to flash.
@@dermick I'm thinking that you could make a self contained unit based on an SD card that would survive most things. It wouldn't be perfect but if it had a camera that was mounted in the cockpit in such a way that it could see the instruments in the aircraft and a microphone that could pick up cockpit sounds and voices it shouldn't be that expensive to install in any aircraft and could easily be mandated for and plane flying people for money.
I have a couple friends in fixed-wing medevac. Those guys are under horrible pressure to take flights because lives are literally on the line.
We consider the "minor" pressure of "make mo money" to be enough risk to good decision making that we require (and strictly enforce) higher standards of training and certification for pilots to fly for money. The added pressure of "bro someone will literally die if i decline this flight" is so great that I cannot see how we allow the pilot to make that decision at all. There needs to be someone in the loop whose job and authority is to say "better a dead patient than a dead patient AND a dead flight crew"
Here in New Zealand, we have a number of companies offering MediVac services. Most are single pilot operations. This is due to cost. Operators are constantly vying for business and cost cutting is the order of the day. So, single pilot operations are necessary to keep costs to a minimum. Its not surprising that safety is compromised. John Glenn was reported as saying "As I hurtled through space, one thought kept crossing my mind - every part of rocket was supplied by lowest bidder." The same principle applies to MediVac. The service is supplied by the lowest tender for the work.
2 pilots are always better than 1. Especially when fatigue is a factor.
@@brianb6957 totally agree.
We had a maxim we lived by when responding to serious calls as police officers: IN ORDER TO GET THERE FIRST, YOU FIRST HAVE TO GET THERE. Whatever the medical emergency was, I too have to wonder about the wisdom of attempting that flight, especially with only one pilot. That was some sickening audio. I pray the industry learns from its terrible mistakes. We've had some similar tragedies here in the Mid-Atlantic over the years, and the irony of surviving some sort of life threatening event only to lose it in a Life Flight crash is very hard to accept.
Thanks for your service as an LEO, Mike!
I was a paramedic for 30 years, with 7 of that as a flight medic in helicopters and sometimes fixed wing aircraft. There are 4 hospitals in Reno, and one in Carson City. There was absolutely no pressing need to attempt this flight to Utah in these weather conditions. That pilot should have declined the flight, and if he didn't, the nurse or medic should have said no. Most companies have a go no go policy that all crew members must agree to the flight, or it doesn't happen. Unfortunately, in some companies, even if it isn't outwardly required, you feel a pressure to take all flights. If not from the company, then from fellow crew members or even your own ego.
@@Skymedc Despite what helicopter pilots like to think about fixed wing operations, the helicopters are generally more dangerous. They are flying into more complex and difficult environments (namely off-airport roadsides, and pretty dangerous confined spaces at hospitals). Meanwhile, fixed-wing advanced turbocraft are merely going from one ordinary airport runway to another. Apples and oranges.
It will be interesting to learn the facts about this particular pilot and company operation. Especially with the advanced automation on this plane, such an accident is quite unusual. There are zillions of flights like this every day without incident.
I do think the commercial flights (on these kind of airplanes and light jets) ought to have some kind of recorders. They perhaps do not need to be the bulky boxes carried on airliners. Of course I just said a mouthful of expensive regulatory and industry proposal. I agree with the NTSB and Juan.
Needs two pilots..that's what Canada does..much safer.
@@fromtheflightdeck252 My question is why does current IFR training and testing constantly result in IFR-incompetent pilots?
I no longer trust pilots’ instrument ratings, and having two probably incompetent pilots up front is not much comfort. We have seen many tragedies proving that two incompetent pilots are no replacement for one competent pilot.
(To help the mass of incompetent pilots, should current instrumentation’s design be improved to give pilots the information in a better format?)
I was an air medical mechanic, had a B200 I was the only maintenance person for. Unfortunately the pilot shortage means they can't be as picky as they should be, and some pilots are behind the aircraft in certain situations, like night flying.
I spent a day or so trying to sort out an autopilot discrepancy that ultimately turned out to be that one of our pilots couldn't fly well at night and immediately after rotation, when the gear was retracted, he pitched down towards the ground, and only recovered when the copilot snapped at him to recover, otherwise this world have been a very bad day.
Disorientation is common, but trusting the instruments (glass panel) is critical
Unless of course there’s a static port blockage, for example. -CFI/A&P
@@Brad2117 I worked for a freight feeder before that, with a couple dozen twin turboprop planes, had a guy I knew, with thousands of hours of instrument instruction time, come work for us.
In his first week he had his HSI roll over in solid instruments, and even though he could see the flag, and realized that it was just rolling around, he chased it until he finally hit red line on the airspeed and saw his altimeter unwinding.
Luckily there were no mountains under him and he recovered in time, using the copilot horizon. He quit after that.
This comment and thread is unnerving (re pilot performance)
I have had exactly the same set of failures in a glider. I believe the failure sequence goes like this. 1. You are flying above a speed where sufficient g will result in the failure of a wing spar. 2. A violent g load is applied to the aircraft. 3. A wing spar fails. 4. The aircraft then violently rolls and keeps pitching and resulting in the combined aerodynamic loads on the tail surfaces now ripping it off in torsion. 5. The main mass of the aircraft spirals/spins to the earth. The tail section takes is own path down. We were lucky as we had parachutes.
Layman here. I was medivac’d in May 2004 from JNU to ANC aboard a king air in IFR conditions. That flight had two pilots, a nurse, paramedic, and my wife. JNU has a sketchy departure and landings because of frequent wind sheer and mountainous terrain.
Is it now a cost-saving measure to have a single pilot? This is unconscionable.
Juan, after watching your last video on this, in particularly in how the coms from the flight were normal, then no further transmissions - I'm curious if a total failure of the electrical system to include a failure of the instrument displays could have contributed to the spatial disorientation?
With the onset of all the glass cockpits in general aviation these days, I wonder how many have considered how their ability to control the aircraft in IFR conditions would be affected if all the pretty pictures went blank? One of the things I always drilled into my son's head when he was learning how to fly under the hood was to remember that if you don't have a autopilot and your hand flying, you need to realize the airplane is going to go which ever way you turn your head - which clearly fits the flight track of this flight.
Several years ago on the way to Shanghai headed for the north pole, I lost all the MFD screens in a 777 ... one of those moments that make you go "huh!" Anyway after dumping a lot of gas and returning to our departure station in the weather on that 3 inch wonder of a standby instrument - my point is that Boeing said that was a triple redundant system that could never do what it did - And yet what was never supposed to happen - happened!
You mean they don't also have old school instruments in there for redundancy? (Obviously not a pilot, but my dad flew back in the 70s & 80s)
No they had electrical power, otherwise there would be no ADS-B data! The transponder was working. Remember there was moderate to severe turbulence at the altitude he was passing through on that night as well as icing. This likely kicked off the autopilot and the real pilot was unprepared to fly with either glass or steam gauge instruments in those conditions - and/or the autopilot kicked off because he failed to de-ice and got some asymmetry of flight surfaces - at night, in IMC and with really bouncy turbulence.... The conditions apparently exceeded his skills.
Not uncommon for an auto pilot system to trip off when limits are exceeded. Looks like the pilot trip off too shortly after and lost control. Flying over the mountains on that route can be very turbulent and full of icing conditions. Get out the big iron equipment than the single engine plane.
Instrument failure or whatever, we are all just speculating here - The one thing I totally agree with Juan on is that this mission under these weather conditions should not have been flown at all or at least not under a single pilot operation. Fighting to keep the aircraft level along with fighting the problem with whatever happened clearly overloaded the pilot. It will be interesting to see what the NTSB determines in the end.
@@ronhunt2477 Actually we know there was both icing and moderate turbulence from his ATC clearances. So autopilot tripping off is not an unreasonable scenario as to why he was then thrust into hand flying and simply lost it. And watch this accounting of recent PC12 crashes, where both break up by yanking back too hard, and loosing control while hand flying in IMC are the cause:
ua-cam.com/video/Zc2Gd2TTXSQ/v-deo.html (Why Pilatus PC 12s Crash)
Several of the comments on the above video appear to be from PC12 pilots who both comment the autopilot disengages at the drop of a hat, and it has nasty behavior on approaching stall - snapping over to 70-90 deg bank and going nose low. But also several recent accidents seem to be a copy of this one, loosing situational awareness in hard IMC and diving or stalling and then yanking too hard in attempt to recover, and breaking up the airframe. A consistent pattern of evidence is not so much speculation.... Dual pilots are not going to help much if neither are practicing stall/spin recovery in IMC enough for a rather twitchy stall behavior of this beast.
Posting vids even without power, what a champ!
He has a generator, plus the sun is back out. I heard Blan is Solar Powered.
Breaks my heart to hear. I was a pilot for this company. Didn’t know the crew but hurts no less.
Was Guardian cutting costs by flying single pilot when they should have been using two?
@@bs838 single pilot is standard.
@@boellis241 Worked out great in this case didn't it?
@@bs838 no it did not. It is not ideal, but it is industry standard.
@@bs838 "It works out much more often than not." - signed Beancounter If the cost of a human life goes up, we'll have to compute a new cost/benefit analysis.
I would never try to fly solo in those conditions. The workload is begging for a small error and there is no room for error at night, in weather in a high performance aircraft. $ be damned, give them a copilot.
Let’s never forget the full and total terror of people who are in these accidents. From minutes to seconds of fearing for your life thinking about, family and children and friends. To the exact split second when you know you’re going to die. Horrible
Man hearing that wwwooooowwwoooooowwww sound of the propeller increase to wowowowwow :( it made me have goose bumps all over my body as you knew it was the end. So unfortunate.. Thank you for the video review blanco. No doubt you are helping the aviation industry become better / safer
If I'm not mistaken it also sounded like there where very windy conditions in the area also some stronger gusts of winds at times.
Thank you Juan. I want to say for the family of the pilot: the accident is picked apart to prevent one like it in the future. But it was an accident. The other pilots on here are all thinking, "There but for the grace of God go I." RIP to the pilot and crew and passengers on this plane.
It wasn't an accident, it was a series of relatively small bad decisions.
Well said. And yes, it was an accident. The NTSB final report will most probably attribute this to reasons so may other aircraft have been lost over the decades.
@@TyphoonVstrom Yes, it’s like they said in the movie Hot Fuzz about using the term “traffic collision” instead of “accident”:
“Why can’t we say ‘accident’ again?”
“Because ‘accident’ implies there’s nobody to blame.”
ua-cam.com/video/puK5CwThaq4/v-deo.html
That flat spin wop-wop sound brings back memories of Ralph Twombly’s T-6 spinning in after colliding with another in 1994, it seemed to take forever for the plane to slowly spin, each time the exhaust was directed in our direction we would hear the wop, us hoping to see a parachute which never appeared. RIP
The last few seconds of that audio are beyond terrifying. So, so sorry for the poor souls on board!
Thanks Juan for following up on this tragic crash, especially given your current, out of power, situation
Did you use the term current to drive home the condition or lack thereof?
I counted about 20 seconds from engine noise increase to ground impact. That would have been an eternity to those onboard who must have been aware they were in serious peril. The audio left me feeling shaken. Thanks as always for your calm insight into these incidents, Juan.
@@MrTaffiny1 if you have evidence that this pilot *intended* to kill those passengers (and himself) then you'd better put up or shut up. This channel is based on the evaluation of factual evidence to draw conclusions and learn lessons from aviation incidents. This accident was certainly tragic and unnecessary, and it may even be shown to be negligent. But just because it makes you angry doesn't support an accusation of murder. Put forth your evidence if you've got it.
@@MrTaffiny1 Right.... Never mind the hundreds of lives he helped save in the past....
@@toadamine To be fair, it's easy to wonder why it happened (as in 'seriously, my guy? Just pull up and reduce power, you dunce!'), but in a high workload environment like single pilot, IFR in cloud, at night, with high turbulence, maybe even icing in cloud to deal with, or, for a real treat, perhaps add an autopilot that decides it's had quite enough of being bumped around, and kicks off in a huff in the turbulence (not unheard of with some models of autopilot), which adds to the joys of said environment- basic control of an aircraft in such circumstances is not so easy in practice. If pilot spatial disorientation kicks in (most likely a big part of what happened), getting hard on those instruments, and staying level is JOB ONE. But if you're task-saturated, and your biological gyro set/brain connection has gone haywire on you, that's a seriously bad time.
As for what the pilot was 'doing that whole time' (I'm guessing you mean during those final 20 seconds or so?). If I were to speculate, the pilot was probably wide-eyed with terror, trying to pull out of the dive they unexpectedly found themselves in, and momentarily not knowing which way was up or down...the rest is too horrible to contemplate. The pilot was no demon, to be sure. They just got caught in a bad set of parameters.
Hope that answers your question? I tried to keep it short, but it didn't work, sorry man!
@@MrTaffiny1 I know, it's a horrible incident, and anger, even saying mean things, is understandable. Just as long as you understand that such incidents are much more complicated than all that. I don't condemn you for sharing your perspective. Just be careful with such off the cuff comments; aviation comment threads can be real hornet's nests; they're best not stirred unnecessarily. I've seen it; they can get ugly, right quick...
@@MrTaffiny1 I think you are the same account I questioned in an earlier video about this accident. You seem to like to run a harsh tongue without need for hard evidence to back your views on. Maybe it was some relative of yours on that plane, but that kind of language without actual evidence is rather bad.
Wow, that's grim. Especially hearing it spin. Turbines don't sputter. But people hear what they think they should hear. There's no reason every aircraft shouldn't have a data recorded now. I know the certified electronics industry could find a way to make it prohibitively expensive, but really all you need is a tough dashcam. My current project has a recorder with less than $50 in parts which survives arriving in the nose of an M795 at speeds you can probably look up on the Internet. I bet Garmin could come up with a recorded for a couple of thousand, only about 10 times a reasonable price for what it is.
Truth. And for $19 and using parts bought 25 years ago at radio shack you can have 100% - ALL - voice and data transmission to the ground or satellite. They used the excuse of bandwidth for a long time but since it's about two million - I'm sorry,about twenty million - times greater now, they have to invent new excuses.
As that goes, since hard drives are not 20 Meg now, but rather millions of times denser, the "loops" should be a million hours - not self-erasing after X minutes. That's assuming they persist in the denial of 100% real time ground recognition.
Totally agree there must be a lower level/grade of recorder available to the lower end of aviators even if it's voice only. I bet even a modified mobile phone would suffice. They found the phone from a passenger of the Nepal ATR 72 crash showing the crash from inside the cabin and managed to recover the video from it. Surely it can't be that difficult to improve on that. Just video and audio from the cockpit would solve so many accidents. I'm pretty much retired but I would love to work on a project like this. It has to be worth looking at.
Turbines do splutter - it's called surging or compressor stall. It's a very distinctive sound
Thank you home owner to secure your security camera recording. I guess the NTSB will find this audio extremely usefull.
Well said Juan! When I started as a flight nurse we had 2 pilots on our King Airs. As corporate greed took over that 2 pilot operation became single pilot. Keep it safe and professional.
In some areas there is a shortage of pilots. It would be impossible to conduct medi-flights if 2 pilots were required in those instances. We risk lives in order to save lives. Sometimes it pays off and sometimes it doesn't. Every flight is a calculated risk (as is driving your car). There is no such thing as a "safe" trip until the aircraft has completed a successful landing. Some are just less risky.
@@FRLN500 What the public doesn’t understand, is that the majority of air ambulance flights are not emergencies. There is still urgency in non-critical flights, and major hurry-up pressures on crews, but it’s 100% economic. If Covid taught us anything, it’s to always follow the money. And be wary of anyone who claims their motives are altruistic.
Sorry it's not always about corporate greed.Seesh.
Thank you for your updates, the patient and the patients wife were my stepdaughters grandparents, and they are looking for answers as soon as possible.
Our thoughts, prayers 🙏 & deepest condolences are with your family as well as the other families of those lost in this very sad & tragic accident 😢 🙏 💔 🕯🕊😭
Air ambulance: just stay at the hospital till flying conditions are better.
Wow, that sent chills. Reminds me of the Yorba linda Cessna 414A crash. With the Yorba linda crash, the plane at one point sounded like turboprop with just how fast the props spun for a piston. RIP to all.And as usual, great reporting Juan.
I drove a ground ambulance back in the day and we drove under some rather tough conditions. If things got too bad, we could always pull over and wait for a snowplow or a sand truck depending on the conditions. I would think in a airplane, you would be so much more careful if only because the price of failure is so high. I hope the FAA finally gets these operators to have some common sense and be safer. Many times in training and briefings we were asked who the most important person in the room you want to get home at the end of the day. We would all raise our hands.
As a ex pilot for Guardian flight, I can tell you from a personal perspective, that guardian flight training was top notch and we valued safety over mission. Not saying we make errors in judgment, but don’t blanket the whole company as unsafe. Just my two cents.
@@thomaswoods3421 It isn't so much the company as it is the flight medicine industry. How many of these crashes in poor weather conditions before the industry does what is safest for the crew and patients? How many more EMS helicopters and airplanes have to crash? It also doesn't help that the industry is often a stepping stone for pilots because of pay and hours. Simple things like adding a second pilot, cockpit voice recorders, better pay, etc would go a long way to minimize fatalities.
@@CenTexPhoto I totally respect your opinion. But medevac is not a stepping stone. You need a minimum of 2500 hours to work for Guardian. The base pay is $112k a year. With the natural overtime with picking up extra days, brings the pay to 130k. Some pilots make around $180k or more. Just had to correct that statement. I agree with everything else though.
@Thomas Woods While Guardian may require 2500 hours, many other companies start from 1000-2000 hours. Our local rescue helicopter service, Travis County STAR Flight has a 3000 hour requirement. My understanding is that their most junior pilots hire on with much more than 3000. So while STAR Flight and Guardian up the flight hours requirement, many don't and that results in those organizations being stepping stones to better pilot jobs as they earn hours.
@@CenTexPhoto Gotcha. Sad state of affairs then
Privately owned Search and Rescue as well Military/Coast Guard SAR do not fly in conditions where it is unsafe where they too may become victims of a crash bringing another SAR mission out that may also crash etc.... Even in situations where someone needs a rescue and will surely die within hours if no one comes for them, SAR will many times say Sorry but No...conditions are too dangerous for us to attempt a rescue at this time, try to stay alive as long as you can (assuming they have open communications with the victims which is rare) There must be new criteria for these air ambulances regarding # of pilots on board, and minimum safe weather conditions (now at departure airport and destination airport) as well as predicted weather in-between those points defining and determining a Go and No Go situation. The cost of the pilot is not the primary expense for the mission so the cost of adding a second pilot is never going to be the deciding economic factor in deciding to use an air ambulance or not use it due to the extra cost of a second pilot. It's going to be super expensive either way....one pilot or two..so just bump up the insurance premiums we pay to cover it so we have a safer flight.
Single Pilot IFR is a Bad Bad Idea.
As a Former Oil Company Chief Pilot I wouldn’t allow it in the company. A lot cheaper to have 2 pilots then a fatal accident
I can't wait to hear your comments on the Congressional oversight hearings for the new FAA administrator nominee Mr. Washington!!
Thank you for this excellent analysis of an avoidable accident. No judgement on this pilot, just an unfortunate series of events that lined up all of the holes. RIP to all the victims and condolences to their heartbroken families.
💯 Juan! First do no harm. Medevac flights shouldn't depart under dangerous conditions to include night, IFR, mountains, bad weather, single pilot, turbine aircraft. I have PC12's flying over my house all night in similar conditions and the operator switched from 2 pilots to single pilot. A 35 minute flight costs over $10,000 minimum sometimes triple that. One more pilot spread across half a dozen missions per 24 hours barely impacts the cost.
I know that is easy for someone from behind a keyboard to say... I would've done this or that, but...
I wonder what happened to the pilot that, even if he did not know the exact attitude of the plane at the time, you can certainly "feel the excessive speed" of the airplane, (certainly lots of vibrations of the air-frame and co9trols prior to breaking apart) and the increase of the wind's noise, etc...
How come he did nothing to decrease the engine's power to slow down the airplane??? Was he incapacitated???
I leave you the question...🤔🤔🤔
Thanks for posting.
As an IFR pilot it's interesting that the AOPA review of this accident termed the weather not that bad and something these planes flew in every day.
Your summation suggests the weather was extreme and not something the med aircraft should be flown single pilot.
Two ends of the spectrum from two experts in the field.
I have to admit when I heard about the runway conditions, blowing snow, icing conditions, and forecast for moderate turbulence, I was kind of surprised with the AOPA opinion that these were not unusual conditions for this aircraft to fly in. It sounded bad too me.
The weather was awful in the audio it was hard to taxi because it had already covered back up in snow.
Amazing how there's always someone who claims the engine was sputtering. They've been watching too many old James Bond movies.
CVR AND FDR's along with Video cameras are more reliable than so called " Eye or Ear witnesses. "
Thanks for keeping us up to date even through your natural handicap is limiting your ability….you are a trooper!
I was a FAA inspector and tried for years to get Guardian revoked. Our legal department and HQ did not want to hear it. How many has Guardian lost now?
No offense, but I don't think it is appropriate to push the spatial disorientation claim as the cause. I don't disagree that it is a valid possibility, but I have gotten multiple theories from active PC12 pilots that the icing could have been a problem. Despite the claims of its FIKI capabilities, the PC12 struggles in icing if you're not on top of it. We need to wait for an official report and keep all of the possible theories at the forefront of the discussion. I do agree that the regs need to be changed to force these aircraft to have CVR's. FAR's are written in blood, and this will be yet another example of that.
I hate to say it but the general public acting as ear or eye witnesses are terrible because of a lack of understanding of what they are witnessing at the time it was witnessed. Even more problematic is the NTSB takes those reports at face value and influences the investigation negatively.
The sounds at the end were disturbing. At some point the people on board had have realized the end was near. 100% agree with your opinion on single pilot vs 2 pilot ops.
I would guess that passengers were experiencing weightlessness along with high G sensations.
But I don't understand how he couldn't correct attitude to straight and level, at least. Then trim it and get back to assigned altitude. Aviate, navigate then have a problem. He actually went to school, right?
Agreed, those sounds are horrible but I can honestly say It's still my preferred way to go, quick & no pain, fear yes but no pain.
@@cascade5682 spacial disorientation in a blizzard. He thought up was down. It happens. As Juan said, "If you don't think it can happen to you, you're wrong." That's why they need two pilots and to not take off in a blizzard.
I don't necessarily agree with 2 pilot operation but for sure specific training and experience requirements for FIKI operation. Reno is a no joke airport especially in bad weather. We call Reno and certain other airports "Special Qualification" airports at the airlines for a reason. The PC12 is a high performance airplane but very capable if you are well trained and proficient. I have over 3500 hrs PC12 time part 135, 91 with vast experience in all weather conditions single pilot and I trusted this airplane with my life and it never let me down. But I know what it can and cant do and many times Ive just got a hotel and flew the next day.
@@cascade5682 I would think that it also depends on when the plane lost the different parts. I would think that once those started failing it was beyond recovery. I'm sure he was also very task overloaded, which is why there should ALWAYS be 2 pilots!! And if you think abt what the centrifugal forces, g forces were putting on his body im guessing it would have been difficult to maneuver his body also. Think about trying to look at instruments and fly the plane while you're on the most violent g force producing part of a roller coaster ride. What can you do but be thrown around and just be 'along for the ride'.
I got disoriented on an advanced roller coaster ride.
There was no way out of it while the world was confusedly spinning.
Even after the ride ended it required about 5 minutes to feel "stable" on my feet.
Make me think of all of the times I hear aircraft above an overcast or at night with the usual doppler effect as the pass, That audio sounds like someone circling back, until it changes to the sound of a Pitts doing aerobatics, and then you realize it isn't normal. It is fortunate that the person found and gave this to the officials as it provides the clear evidence of what occurred. RIP to all who were lost. A real tragedy.
Great job Juan. Best wishes to you and your wonderful family.
Juan Browne should be getting a Pulitzer Prize every year for his reporting.
These dreadful things are very sad. I think I am lucky to have very little experience and a weak imagination.
The wreckage photos are also highly illuminating - previously people had wondered how there could be relatively intact wreckage and no crater if the plane nosedived in as appeared on the radar, and this confirms he was actually in a flat spin after the vertical stab broke off. That squashed-looking wreckage is entirely consistent with such an impact.
Not being a pilot and I guess he was flying IFR, why didn’t he trust his instruments to combat the spacial confusion?
It’s more difficult than you would think and can really get the best of you. It’s not a fun experience at all.
Spatial disorientation seizes the mind with unbelievable power. It takes lots of training and will power to overcome, even if you recognize the onset soon enough to save the flight. Being over-tasked and alone doesn't help. Also the deeper you fall into spatial disorientation the stronger its hold on your mind.
Unless your regularly flying IFR (hand flying) your going to cock up. Especially when flying thru moderate chop and the plane is getting bounced around.
@dboatrig This description right here is exactly what it feels like. Your brain is screaming wordlessly at you that X is happening. It takes a lot of willpower to look at your instruments and trust them. Add in general disorientation based on what else was happening ... and it's a tough situation to be in.
Exactly as I suspected. Except for the flat spin. But again and again why do private pilot's and some air operators conduct single-pilot IFR operations with single-engine aircraft in serious IMC. the pc-12 is one of the most advanced single-engine aircraft produced and even though it has flight management systems with its apex FMS still incumbent upon the pilot to ensure that they operate safely and do not become overwhelmed by the workload. I posted my thoughts on another video of yours regarding this accident and I had many people giving me different perspectives like well the aircraft a certified for a single pilot IFR ya maybe it is but the weak leak is the pilot doesn't matter how many hours you have pilots can still make mistakes doesn't matter if you have 500 or 5,000 hours. single pilot IFR in serious IMC is very dangerous doesn't matter who you are 2 pilot operations should be mandated for this unless the pilot has been recently recertified and is conducting recurrent training to maintain his sharpness. I would never recertify my IFR then jump into a light single and go punch holes in clouds. Insanity!
So sad and terrifying - thanks for the follow-up analysis, Juan. I'm not a pilot but just from a big picture situational aspect, I think it is *crazy* that out of any type of commercial aviation, air medical transport services are allowed to operate with a single pilot... It would be last on my list of outfits allowed to do so...These operations simply do not have the luxury of being "pick and choose" fair weather joy rides - their *baseline* is urgency & inherently stressful situations, and sub-optimal conditions are a matter of when not if... There simply has to be redundacy and someone to cross check operations (even at the basic level of just having another pilot as a second opinion asking "should we really be flying in this ?")
Almost Every EMS Operation can absolutely "Pick and Choose" which flights they can accept or decline due to weather. It is in the nature of EMS operations. Ask me how I know.
Did you check how much actual IFR time the pilot got in the last 6 months?
Probably only cert related.
Professional as always. I even heard the sad outtro tune in my ears. Commisserations to all involved.
I wonder how many loss of control accidents with an IFR pilot due to vertigo in IFR conditions have there been? This would be an interesting statistic especially if it was broken down by night and day.
The stats are out there somewhere.
Thank you Sir for your valiant efforts to keep us informed. Be safe.
Agree with your comment about two pilots, it should be the same across all EMS flights including helicopters.
I'm still amazed that some people are proposing that airlines go single pilot when the basis of safe flying is about redundancy.
Juan, can you comment on all the near collisions and what might be causing them all the sudden. On the ATC channels we've seen like 5 of them since the near miss you covered previously. Is it simply turnover of staff? It seems like they are occurring nearly daily now and I'm scared it's going to end in tragedy.
will do!
Better news coverage, smarter detection equipment, more crowded airspace, GOP and occasionally DEMs too, cutting FAA budgets year over year.
Sad hearing that 🙏🏾🙏🏾
I don't know how that flight service works, but our Air med serivces that work in my part of the country allows any crew member to call "No Joy" on any flight, for any reason. Most of the Fixed wing is done in King Air's and 2 pilot operations.
Hi Juan B! Thanks again for your selfless reporting on all matters aviation, ok and snow and dams and wildland aerial firefighting and... lol. I want to run the responses to this video through my "back to reality" filter. It is not "man-made" laws and regulations that will solve this issue, it is proper training and logical operations from the companies involved. When I was an active A&P I was always pressured to do more and to ignore proper procedure. I always felt this was "accountant-based" directives, persons looking only at dollars and not the reality of risk. I cannot relay the stories of maintenance misconduct here, but it was bad, in my opinion. The same thing applies to flying risky missions. Why did Kobe's pilot make that flight? Who knows; wanting to satisfy the customer, pressure from the employer, overconfidence? I do not know, but simply saying "no" was not an option, apparently. The same factors appear here and laws and regulations will not solve the issue. Cheers from Texas.
So very true. CVR/FDR only tell tales of what happened and never prevent accidents except in the very rare situations where they deter a pilot with impulse control issues from doing one of the three Ds and getting caught. This is pilot incapacitation, pure and simple. We will likely never have enough information to know why.
When you are right ,,,,,you are right. Would 2 pilots have made the difference? Very good chance of it. Health Insurance companies should insist on this. And the CVR…well that just makes too much sense. The audio was sickening. Beyond sad.
Thanks for enduring the conditions there and still getting this out. Wow
Juan - I would be interested in knowing how you are dealing with the extended power outage. I think it would be a good learning experience.
When I visit my brother's place back in the woods of Nevada County near The North Columbia School house on Tyler Foote which is a few miles from Mother Truckers it is completely normal for the power to be out for a few days. Can be summer or winter. Doesn't have to be weather related but more likely if there is weather like wind. Back in the woods is the last place repaired. Everybody has wood burning stoves for heat. I've been there and a-lot of snow comes down and then I can't leave for a few days since I don't have a 4 wheel drive. I have to wait for locals to drive on the road enough so I won't get stuck. I'm risk averse so want to be confident I won't get stuck. Wood burning stove is good for cooking and melting snow so you can drink all the tea and coffee and chocolate you want and take all the hot showers you want. Everybody has multiple propane and butane stoves so everybody can still cook normally if they don't want to use their wood burning stove/s. alumni.soe.ucsc.edu/~fkilner/KFJC/IMG_20170103_151115_shrunk.jpg
Hopefully the G forces blacked them out and they never knew what happened to them.
That was sad and scary JB. 🙏🏼😱
Appreciate you updating us.
Hope the FAA wakes up. UA-cam demonitization is another mystery.
Take care and fly safe. 🤟🏼🖖🏼
RIP. The irony of medical air ambulance services correlating to this sort of outcome is bitter.
Something just doesn't make much sense about this crash. But not going to speculate and will await the NTSB report.
The AP confirmed that there was no medical emergency with this flight. The patient was seeking treatment for an already existing condition. I can't figure out why they couldn't wait. You can see in the b-roll but there was rapid melting and blue sky breaking through by noon the next day. The same article also stated an aviation attorney is representing the deceased patient and his wife. This attorney has the same question.