A lot of people were mad that a show called game of thrones focused to much on the fight over the throne rather than the fight against the magic ice zombies. Is that so weird?
Woolie house of the dragon is meant to cover the Targaryan civil war and is like a history book to explain why the Targaryans went from dragon riding demi gods to inbred madmen who would sit the throne until they fused to it. Its a massive civil war and we just hit the effective succession moment, we got the entire rest of the war to go through. The entire storyline jumps forward so much in the beginning because it's covering the prehistory and explaining why the sides go their directions, now we get to actually see it play out. Thats how much is left.
That’s just how it is for European nobility it was seen as respecting a ancestors name so ofc in Westeros with the targaryens they have like a dozen ageons for the conquerer and the first high king of Westeros
@Disco inferno They have a dozen aegons because of the dream. Each king was told the story from the past one and to make sure there was an Aegon in succession to fill the prophecy.
@@zigmus00A I've been here since 2014, i just care to ask what makes OP say that in this conversation. AFAIK he's just less willing to engage with anything HBO/GoT after the fuckup, and seems to just have a lens of mild cynicism over the whole thing.
@@just_matt214 Woolie questions why a show called house of the dragon is focusing so much on the targaryens and calls it fan service for the historical dynasties to show up in a prequel show.
@@TheBKdynasty yeah, because it looks like there's still a layer of "yeah ok HBO doesn't care about anything" over his perception of the show. Hard to fault him from his decade-long burn with the first show, even if it makes him view this new one through slightly biased lenses. (also i don't think he's read the books)
Why on Earth would you not see the families we follow in Game of Thrones in this prequel when they were introduced as ancient dynasties of their respective lands dating back to the founding of the nation?
We see a bit of them with the Baratheon’s and Lannister’s, and we’ll see more in season 2. But the show is called “House of the Dragon,” not Game of Thrones 0. The book this is based on is basically just a Targaryen Civil war, the other families don’t have much focus because they’re off minding their own business in their respective lands. If we were to get a Robert’s rebellion show or something, that would involve all of the families you know from the show with more prominence than just 10 minute scenes.
Because this is house of the dragon the Targaryens are the focus but reading the lore book for the next season I think we will be seeing more houses the starks do play a huge role in the civil war
@@cookiescure7160 They're the second highest authority in the land and are in a constant struggle for power adjacent to the Targaryens. In a show about the Presidency, it's like asking why the fuck these Congressmen keep showing up.
Because they're not really involved in the story yet? It's only been one season do you think all the lords paramount are going to stay out of the war that has only now started?
@hillbillypowow I have a feeling op was responding to Pat & Woolie's comment about mentioning those houses as being a nod to GOT. Those houses already existed long before GOT so why would they expect them not to be mentioned when they exist? At least that's what I think.
Not even families, these are dynasties like the von Habsburgs, the Plantagenets, the Capets, the von Wittlesbachs, etc etc. When lineage is an integral part of government, Houses rarely change to the point where the name of a ruler is more important for the continuance of legitimacy and societal stability than the actual ruler. And because it's fantasy, its turned up to 11 as GRRM would say.
I dunno if Woolie reads these comments, but I do know the books so I can shed a bit of light on the show situation like he asked chat to do: - House of the Dragon is based on the chapters of Fire & Blood called The Dying of the Dragons, which makes up about a quarter of the book (~200 pages of a ~730 page book). The show is currently about 50 pages into that chunk. The story is complete in broad strokes from beginning to end, and Ryan Condal actually cares about the source material and understands what makes it good, so it's way less likely to shit the bed than the other dragon show did. - The showrunners and GRRM have confirmed that HotD will run 3 to 4 seasons, which about tracks when you map the pacing of the first season onto the book. - Targaryens being fireproof is entirely a late-season show invention. Targaryens are not fireproof. This will be made abundantly clear in the coming seasons. - The Starks and Baratheons being relevant isn't a fanservice thing, they've ruled their respective regions for thousands (in the case of the Starks) and hundreds (in the case of the Baratheons) of years at this point. Of course they're going to be the first people the Blacks and the Greens reach out to for alliances. - House Velaryon do in fact still exist during the time of GoT (in A Feast for Crows, Cersei has a Velaryon bastard named Aurane Waters on her small council). The show just cut them out because they're not really important in the grand scheme of things - their influence diminishes quite a lot after the Dance of the Dragons. Obviously, the show also cut a lot of very important content, but that's a discussion that's already been done to death. Hope this helps.
I guess Woolie missed the part where Laenor names his son after his dead lover Joffrey and not because of the fanservice for GoT fans. Like dude, it’s in the source material.
You can't "try again idiot" if the mother is dead. The choice is between either saving the baby or both of them die. In no situation in HOTD is saving the mother an opinion.
Viserys didn't get a choice for his wife's pregnancy ending the way it did. Doing a Caesarian meant a baby might survive while not doing it was going to for sure kill them both.
Yeah, it was a horrible situation and a horrible choice to make, but given he was told "Either your wife dies and the baby has a chance or they both die" and iirc she wasn't even conscious at that point (and only woke up right before they start cutting) I think his choice makes sense.
But she was only pregnant again after like four failed ones because of Viserys' ambition to have a male heir. Just like the Caesarian, it was never her decision despite it being her health at risk.
I think the episode veiled through that she would go through the pregnancy as it is her "duty", but had a feeling it won't be successful. He decided ultimately that producing an heir will be of more importance, her life was forfeited the moment he made that decision. I think the first episode shows he loved the probability of an heir more than her.
People keep talking about how terrible Viserys is choosing the Medieval C-Section to try to save the baby at the cost of his wife's life. HOW WERE YOU GOING TO SAVE THE WIFE?! Literally how? If Viserys or any other husband said save my wife instead of the baby, how would they do that with their terrible Medieval medical ability? The situation in each case on the show was the baby is stuck and can't be pushed out, with the mother losing blood the whole time. If the baby can can't come out, the mom is going to eventually pass anyway from blood loss or other complications, which is the end of the baby as well. So the choice is not "Do you want to save your wife or baby?" It's "Hey, do you want to definitely lose both in the next hour? Or try to at least save the baby?"
Viserys is terrible in that moment because he didn't give her wife any information, time, or agency. He doesn't set it straight for her and let her make her peace with the situation, he makes a decision involving her life without her consent and just maintains a bedside manner as she gets held down and cut open like an animal while she panics.
It's funnny, I always thought Woolie ate "I know what that is!" -isms up the way he has to constantly reference stuff he likes when he's playing a game.
I still remember Woolie being the one person who said it might be good and being overall optimistic about it. I thought it was going to be absolute shit but thankfully I was soo wrong about this one. It was easily the best show of 2022 for me.
Comparing this convo to the multi-stream, multi-hour long discussions of how bad each of the last two episodes of Game of Thrones these two had just shows how much better the first season of House of the Dragon is compared to Season 8 of GoT.
The problem is that HOTD has already changed a bunch of events told in the books and added completely original scenes just to trend and look cook, such as the dragon bursting out of the ground during the kings naming. If people were afraid of it going off track like S8 did, it already did in S1.
So I'm not going to defend incest the evidence of why it doesn't work for anyone in real life speaks for it self. but I am going to say that series does say that the targaryons are abnormal for having little to no defects. It's not just "incest is A-ok in this world" it's more like "what is up with cousin fuckers? Why don't they have misshapen, and why don't they burn when you set them on fire?!"
Also, the Targaryen incest is not A-Okay. There are so many instances of Targaryen babies being born deformed and fucked up, they're just so extremely deformed that they die quickly after being born.
The incest thing with Targs is somewhat complicated and accidental... somewhat. The first Targs that did blood magic to tame dragons knew that they HAD to keep their blood pure so that whatever was inside them to tame dragons didn't dilute over generations, hence the incest. The thing is, the many generations of Targs later don't even know about blood magic and just think of marrying their siblings as something to remain pure in terms of their status and tradition. It's similar to the Targ's naming conventions. The reason why Aegon is passed down in nearly every generation is because Aegon the Conqueror, the first Aegon to conquer Westeros had a dream that Aegon (an Aegon) would prevent some large calamity. In fact, the sole reason for him leaving to conquer the Seven Kingdoms is due to him believing in the dream so much that he wanted to ensure that he ("Aegon") could force all the kingdoms together under one rule to combat the great evil that was to come. When he realized he was getting old and that it wouldn't be him, he made sure to name his heir "Aegon" to ensure that he would do it, passing down his dream to him as well. Each King made sure to name one of their sons "Aegon" to make sure there was one around for when shit hit the fan, but they never told anyone but the son named "Aegon" about the dream. Like the Targs being unaware of WHY incest was really tradition, this left them to fill in the blanks by assuming naming their kids after past Targs was just tradition as well. This is why there's so many Viserys targs and such throughout history. All the Targ traditions are built around very important and dire reasons that all the other targs not in the know unintentionally assumed was just standards the Targ name lived by.
I went into House of the Dragon with absolutely nonexistent expectations, fully expecting to just dunk on it for being shit, and it turned out to be as good or better than most of the early Game of Thrones seasons, in my opinion. I was really pleasantly surprised by how good it was.
The cowards at HBO need to adapt one of GRRM's many sci-fi novels. It's so weird that only his fantasy work gets attention, despite being the minority of his work.
Woolie’s joke of GRRM saying “hey call me Winter!” killed me xd. I agree with Woolie on 3 seasons for HOTD. If GRRM were to magically finish the books, would be cool for HBO to go back and do the book ending of SOIAF after adapting some of his other stories
Woolie, they're planning to go in deep with the story that's why the timeskips are done. They've already set up baby Aegon III and Viserys II for The Blackfyre Rebellion PART 1 lmao I imagine the whole HOTD ends with the story of Brynden Rivers/The Three Eyed Raven a.k.a. The Most Interesting Man In Westeros because that albino is also a half-Targaryen. Then a teaser subplot for Robert's Rebellion.
I'm kinda sad about Fire and Blood and other supplementary material for Song. I much preferred when we only saw the Targs through the lens of legends and stories and I had always kinda suspected, when I first read the books, these stories about dragons and Valyrian magic were embellished through the passage of time in-universe and that maybe the Targs were just like regular people flaws and all. It would absolutely been in tone and would have also been more historically based like how we contrast what we know of say Richard the Lionheart/Ragnar Lodbrok/Charlemagne/etc etc now vs the legends that built up around them that the medieval people would have believed. But nope. The targs actually totally were super awesome and perfect and beautiful and fair and had violet eyes and had fire magic and dragons and alchemy and yada yada yada. Oh well.
@@silverwolfe3636 GRRM said he would have preferred if they started from the very beginning when the Targs first flew over to Westeros for conquest to give an FULL story of their family's downfall, but the showrunners didn't want to go with that. The first season is already comprised of a bunch of original ideas just spitballed last minute (they're own showrunners confirmed this), so I don't have high hops of it in the long run. They don't actually seem to care what GRRM's input is.
@@ndt7379 I agree quite a bit. Yet still a part of me, some foolish part of me, is hopefully optimistic towards HotD as a show despite some GLARING issues in the first season. So I will watch it and if it does turn to shit, I'll probably still watch it. I watched all of GoT and even enjoyed the last two seasons more than seasons 5 and 6 tbh, although it was akin to enjoying watch The Room. And of course I will continue to pray for Winds to come out..... soon TM.
She's immune in the show but that's because the showrunners did their own thing. Yeah, Targs aren't immune or even resistant to fire, but GOT left that impression on most watchers... Sadly, I think HOTD is going with the same idea, since we saw Daemon fly through a bunch of flames unharmed in S1...
@@adrianneagoe3652 and even then, in the books all her hair got burned off, but yeah good luck getting Emilia Clarke to go bald for two whole seasons...
Yeah Woolie why would this show dare to mention any of the great houses that have incredible power and influence and are the most important pieces on the gameboard for keeping the iron throne, nah that just fanservice jesus christ. read the books.
In this episode, Pat does not realize how difficult and horrible child birth is especially in an era without fancy hospitals. And even still, women can die.
A little piece of me watching this live was waiting for the "actually, this show sucked" take to drop for some reason. Legitimately, despite some issues, has made solid improvements to the book and history with characters. Opening on showing the relationship between Rhaenyra and Alicent makes it so much easier to get invested in them personally, including the people around them by association. Maybe there is hope for the franchise as a whole to actively be fantastic again.
The only problem is that they've already steered far away from the books. That whole dragon popping out of the ground during the new king's correnation was never recorded in any books by the maesters, so even the 'unreliable narrator' excuse doesn't work. There's a whole clip (I can link it if asked) of one of the showrunners saying they were all spitballing ideas in the writing room for how to end the season with a bang and someone just said "wouldn't it be cool if a dragon burst out of the ground!?" as the reason why it happens. That's why it feels so out of place and nonsensical for her to not toast them right then and there, because it's a completely show original moment that didn't happen in the actual book lore. Rhaenyra and Alicent were never described to be friends, but even if we assume that's because the maesters filled in the blanks or embellished what they didn't know about their personal relationship, the two straight up weren't close in age. The reason why they're so close in age for the show is because one of the showrunners (the show has like 4+) wanted them to have love interests with each other, but the other showrunners didn't agree with him, so he left due to 'creative differences' after finishing the first 2-3 episodes. This is why Rhaenyra and Alicent appear to be more than just friends in the early episodes and then that's immediately dropped. There's a whole bunch of stuff I can list, but the point I'm trying to make is that they've already gone to S8 levels of making shit up within the first season... after promising everyone they wouldn't do that for this show.
@@galesturms What's absurd about it? The showrunners literally admitted to making up season finale ideas by spitballing ideas that thought would be cool. Rhaenys bursting out of the ground with her dragon is never recorded to have happened. The reason why she doesn't just end the war right then and there by torching the new king isn't because she saw Alicent protecting her family, it's because the writers mindlessly thought they would add a scene that would trend on twitter. Rhaenys wasn't even in the city when the new king was being named.
@@ndt7379 Brother, calling it out to be akin to season 8 is absurd given how utterly dogshit that is in comparison to the overall strong presentation and delivery of HotD. Like I said with the dragon bursting out as some sorta spectacle thing, that shit is dumb, and there's some other mildly annoying changes but comparing the two is wild. Also, as someone who also read the book, although it's goofy as hell it is not in total defiance or shaking the foundation that the story stands on.
@@galesturms I meant it was akin to S8 in terms of the direction they were going with the changes, not in terms of quality. They've already completely changed a bunch of events to the point where they're going to have a hard time making them work with what's supposed to happen later on. If they're already willing to just go "lol, wouldn't it be cool for views if X happened?" and write that in without thinking, it spells horrific results for the future of the show.
So Woolie it’s probably not going to be just 3 seasons, however the guys behind house of the dragon is looking at future seasons being about other time periods in the Targaryen’s history
You know, you gotta wonder what the Asari were doing before space travel to diversify their genes. Were they just banging the local animal population or what?
Will make a mild defense as there are what I consider three different groups, you have feeling for your cousin, for your sibling, or your parents. All messed up, but I bet everyone ranks them a little differently
OKAY I KNEW THERE WAS A REASON WHY WOOLIE WAS MY FAVORITE CAST MEMBER! Zack & Merry was a great movie, hilarious even. Woolie shows the he is indeed a cultured individual 😎
So just FYI, the show about incest, uncles wanting to have sex with their niece, brother and sisters having sex with each other, a 10 year old being betrothed off is not a good show. And it's not just because of the incest. It's because the whole show every conversation is about either incest or "who should be the heir". Long boring incest conversations in a show in which literally every character is unlikeable. The two characters you MIGHT root for, one is a decrepit dying man who turns more and more into a ghoul every episode and the protagonist who wants to fuck her uncle and killed an innocent man to cover up the fact that her husband is gay, and then wants to make her bastard child who she and EVERYONE knows is a bastard as the king. Not a good show, don't watch. Music and dragons are amazing though.
i have a sneaking feeling it's about a *little* bit more than that. either way, sounds like you already watched it and you're never getting that time back. sucks for you :)
@@miguelnewmexico8641 I minimized it a bit but it's really not about much more than that at all. It's betrothals and succession. There isn't much of an external threat that warrants their time at all. No country to go to war with, no mystical ice walkers threatening to cover the world in winter, no evil necromancers. Just succession and incest betrothal.
HOTd > GOT imo. It cuts all the fat of the OG series, and the characters seem less revolting than the original. I liked this series more than The Last of Us
This might be the most Pat that Woolie has ever been.
That tells me everything I need to know about this clip in one sentence.
Bravo.
"Are we just going to focus on this family?" Woolie asked about the show called House of the Dragon.
I'm still waiting on House of the Rising Sun.
Lol
Woolie is such a weird dude, how is he gonna watch a show called House of Dragons and then complain about watching the Targaryans daily life
A lot of people were mad that a show called game of thrones focused to much on the fight over the throne rather than the fight against the magic ice zombies. Is that so weird?
@@andersvaldemarcornelius1224 AINTNOWAY They told me WINTER WAS COMING for like 10 years and then it was half an episode.
@@UnlimitedBick The Long Night didn’t even last a whole normal night smdh.
Woolie house of the dragon is meant to cover the Targaryan civil war and is like a history book to explain why the Targaryans went from dragon riding demi gods to inbred madmen who would sit the throne until they fused to it. Its a massive civil war and we just hit the effective succession moment, we got the entire rest of the war to go through. The entire storyline jumps forward so much in the beginning because it's covering the prehistory and explaining why the sides go their directions, now we get to actually see it play out. Thats how much is left.
Not gonna lie. I'm only in it for the incest
I've never been so bored half a sentence into a "here's why the thing is actually good" reply.
@@Rawyr then you are just plain stupid
@@Rawyr cool
@@Rawyr we're so impressed.
2:48 I love that what Woolie thinks is fanservise is just history from westeros and George's insane mind, fucking Aegon being the name of 12 Targs.
It's like John for us. It's hilarious.
That’s just how it is for European nobility it was seen as respecting a ancestors name so ofc in Westeros with the targaryens they have like a dozen ageons for the conquerer and the first high king of Westeros
@Disco inferno They have a dozen aegons because of the dream. Each king was told the story from the past one and to make sure there was an Aegon in succession to fill the prophecy.
@@discoinferno701 Fucking nobility, it's a giant incestuous dodecahedron.
Woolie's media literacy is really breathtakingly poor considering his line of work.
Why so?
You must be new 😂
@@zigmus00A I've been here since 2014, i just care to ask what makes OP say that in this conversation. AFAIK he's just less willing to engage with anything HBO/GoT after the fuckup, and seems to just have a lens of mild cynicism over the whole thing.
@@just_matt214 Woolie questions why a show called house of the dragon is focusing so much on the targaryens and calls it fan service for the historical dynasties to show up in a prequel show.
@@TheBKdynasty yeah, because it looks like there's still a layer of "yeah ok HBO doesn't care about anything" over his perception of the show. Hard to fault him from his decade-long burn with the first show, even if it makes him view this new one through slightly biased lenses.
(also i don't think he's read the books)
"I want real dragons."
"They don't have any real dragons, they never had them!"
"Who didn't have them?"
"The world!"
The world HAS dragons...just not the cool kind
"Get this guy out of here! Finds me a dragon!"
Why on Earth would you not see the families we follow in Game of Thrones in this prequel when they were introduced as ancient dynasties of their respective lands dating back to the founding of the nation?
We see a bit of them with the Baratheon’s and Lannister’s, and we’ll see more in season 2. But the show is called “House of the Dragon,” not Game of Thrones 0. The book this is based on is basically just a Targaryen Civil war, the other families don’t have much focus because they’re off minding their own business in their respective lands. If we were to get a Robert’s rebellion show or something, that would involve all of the families you know from the show with more prominence than just 10 minute scenes.
Because this is house of the dragon the Targaryens are the focus but reading the lore book for the next season I think we will be seeing more houses the starks do play a huge role in the civil war
@@cookiescure7160 They're the second highest authority in the land and are in a constant struggle for power adjacent to the Targaryens. In a show about the Presidency, it's like asking why the fuck these Congressmen keep showing up.
Because they're not really involved in the story yet? It's only been one season do you think all the lords paramount are going to stay out of the war that has only now started?
@hillbillypowow I have a feeling op was responding to Pat & Woolie's comment about mentioning those houses as being a nod to GOT. Those houses already existed long before GOT so why would they expect them not to be mentioned when they exist? At least that's what I think.
It's not Memberberries, Woolie. They are bringing up the families of Westeros.
Cant believe my parents would Nostagiabait me by using names of my ancestors.
Not even families, these are dynasties like the von Habsburgs, the Plantagenets, the Capets, the von Wittlesbachs, etc etc. When lineage is an integral part of government, Houses rarely change to the point where the name of a ruler is more important for the continuance of legitimacy and societal stability than the actual ruler. And because it's fantasy, its turned up to 11 as GRRM would say.
I dunno if Woolie reads these comments, but I do know the books so I can shed a bit of light on the show situation like he asked chat to do:
- House of the Dragon is based on the chapters of Fire & Blood called The Dying of the Dragons, which makes up about a quarter of the book (~200 pages of a ~730 page book). The show is currently about 50 pages into that chunk. The story is complete in broad strokes from beginning to end, and Ryan Condal actually cares about the source material and understands what makes it good, so it's way less likely to shit the bed than the other dragon show did.
- The showrunners and GRRM have confirmed that HotD will run 3 to 4 seasons, which about tracks when you map the pacing of the first season onto the book.
- Targaryens being fireproof is entirely a late-season show invention. Targaryens are not fireproof. This will be made abundantly clear in the coming seasons.
- The Starks and Baratheons being relevant isn't a fanservice thing, they've ruled their respective regions for thousands (in the case of the Starks) and hundreds (in the case of the Baratheons) of years at this point. Of course they're going to be the first people the Blacks and the Greens reach out to for alliances.
- House Velaryon do in fact still exist during the time of GoT (in A Feast for Crows, Cersei has a Velaryon bastard named Aurane Waters on her small council). The show just cut them out because they're not really important in the grand scheme of things - their influence diminishes quite a lot after the Dance of the Dragons. Obviously, the show also cut a lot of very important content, but that's a discussion that's already been done to death.
Hope this helps.
Thanks for the info dump!
This was the hardest Woolie has ever Pated
Bro thinks theyre doing fan service by mentioning the starks and the baratheons as if they dont play major roles later on😭
I guess Woolie missed the part where Laenor names his son after his dead lover Joffrey and not because of the fanservice for GoT fans. Like dude, it’s in the source material.
You can't "try again idiot" if the mother is dead. The choice is between either saving the baby or both of them die. In no situation in HOTD is saving the mother an opinion.
O man, highschool of the dead went crazy
"Dash that child upon the rocks." -Pat "The Molehill" Clegane
Viserys didn't get a choice for his wife's pregnancy ending the way it did. Doing a Caesarian meant a baby might survive while not doing it was going to for sure kill them both.
Yeah, it was a horrible situation and a horrible choice to make, but given he was told "Either your wife dies and the baby has a chance or they both die" and iirc she wasn't even conscious at that point (and only woke up right before they start cutting) I think his choice makes sense.
I mean they both died anyway
But she was only pregnant again after like four failed ones because of Viserys' ambition to have a male heir. Just like the Caesarian, it was never her decision despite it being her health at risk.
I think the episode veiled through that she would go through the pregnancy as it is her "duty", but had a feeling it won't be successful. He decided ultimately that producing an heir will be of more importance, her life was forfeited the moment he made that decision. I think the first episode shows he loved the probability of an heir more than her.
Did a DNA test and I have multiple Madden ancestors that I never knew about. Genuinely wondering if I'm related to Woolie somehow now.
...are you trying to Targaryan Woolie?
nah, you're related to John Madden. Boom!
People keep talking about how terrible Viserys is choosing the Medieval C-Section to try to save the baby at the cost of his wife's life. HOW WERE YOU GOING TO SAVE THE WIFE?! Literally how? If Viserys or any other husband said save my wife instead of the baby, how would they do that with their terrible Medieval medical ability? The situation in each case on the show was the baby is stuck and can't be pushed out, with the mother losing blood the whole time. If the baby can can't come out, the mom is going to eventually pass anyway from blood loss or other complications, which is the end of the baby as well. So the choice is not "Do you want to save your wife or baby?" It's "Hey, do you want to definitely lose both in the next hour? Or try to at least save the baby?"
Viserys is terrible in that moment because he didn't give her wife any information, time, or agency. He doesn't set it straight for her and let her make her peace with the situation, he makes a decision involving her life without her consent and just maintains a bedside manner as she gets held down and cut open like an animal while she panics.
3:08 bro the title of the video is "house of incest", i don't think kirby's gonna be able to rescue the ad revenue on this one
It's funnny, I always thought Woolie ate "I know what that is!" -isms up the way he has to constantly reference stuff he likes when he's playing a game.
I still remember Woolie being the one person who said it might be good and being overall optimistic about it. I thought it was going to be absolute shit but thankfully I was soo wrong about this one. It was easily the best show of 2022 for me.
I hate how the show has convinced people that Targaryens are fireproof and not a one off thing caused by blood magic
Comparing this convo to the multi-stream, multi-hour long discussions of how bad each of the last two episodes of Game of Thrones these two had just shows how much better the first season of House of the Dragon is compared to Season 8 of GoT.
The problem is that HOTD has already changed a bunch of events told in the books and added completely original scenes just to trend and look cook, such as the dragon bursting out of the ground during the kings naming.
If people were afraid of it going off track like S8 did, it already did in S1.
So I'm not going to defend incest the evidence of why it doesn't work for anyone in real life speaks for it self. but I am going to say that series does say that the targaryons are abnormal for having little to no defects. It's not just "incest is A-ok in this world" it's more like "what is up with cousin fuckers? Why don't they have misshapen, and why don't they burn when you set them on fire?!"
Also, the Targaryen incest is not A-Okay. There are so many instances of Targaryen babies being born deformed and fucked up, they're just so extremely deformed that they die quickly after being born.
The incest thing with Targs is somewhat complicated and accidental... somewhat. The first Targs that did blood magic to tame dragons knew that they HAD to keep their blood pure so that whatever was inside them to tame dragons didn't dilute over generations, hence the incest. The thing is, the many generations of Targs later don't even know about blood magic and just think of marrying their siblings as something to remain pure in terms of their status and tradition.
It's similar to the Targ's naming conventions. The reason why Aegon is passed down in nearly every generation is because Aegon the Conqueror, the first Aegon to conquer Westeros had a dream that Aegon (an Aegon) would prevent some large calamity. In fact, the sole reason for him leaving to conquer the Seven Kingdoms is due to him believing in the dream so much that he wanted to ensure that he ("Aegon") could force all the kingdoms together under one rule to combat the great evil that was to come. When he realized he was getting old and that it wouldn't be him, he made sure to name his heir "Aegon" to ensure that he would do it, passing down his dream to him as well. Each King made sure to name one of their sons "Aegon" to make sure there was one around for when shit hit the fan, but they never told anyone but the son named "Aegon" about the dream. Like the Targs being unaware of WHY incest was really tradition, this left them to fill in the blanks by assuming naming their kids after past Targs was just tradition as well. This is why there's so many Viserys targs and such throughout history. All the Targ traditions are built around very important and dire reasons that all the other targs not in the know unintentionally assumed was just standards the Targ name lived by.
@@ndt7379 but what if the Targ not named Aegon became king, does he tell the Aegon of the current king about Conquerorgon's little secret?
I went into House of the Dragon with absolutely nonexistent expectations, fully expecting to just dunk on it for being shit, and it turned out to be as good or better than most of the early Game of Thrones seasons, in my opinion. I was really pleasantly surprised by how good it was.
Me too
Woolie just needs to try it at least once, it already runs in his family.
Wait what!?
Theres incest in his family tree?
I think they’re talking about “madden town.” Where one of his ancestors in the 1800s married a woman and her daughter, who went on to poison him.
@@squidyy2k because he was a Templar
@@squidyy2k what is Madden Town? I hear it mentioned every so often
that's not incest you weirdo, he married _her_ daughter
How did three child births get turned into 6 or 7 lol
each one pained me to watch. I definitely felt like there's more childbirths than that, but I guess there's only 3.
pat doesnt care about spoilers i appreciate that lol
Because he doesn't care about anything GoT related anymore lol
The cowards at HBO need to adapt one of GRRM's many sci-fi novels. It's so weird that only his fantasy work gets attention, despite being the minority of his work.
I know it's weird but it's too late to get this weirded out, Woolie
They started Halfway through the book, and there is only one book for this series. Not 7 '1000' page plus books
Woolie’s joke of GRRM saying “hey call me Winter!” killed me xd. I agree with Woolie on 3 seasons for HOTD. If GRRM were to magically finish the books, would be cool for HBO to go back and do the book ending of SOIAF after adapting some of his other stories
Let sleeping dogs lie. The Rise of Skywalker was attempting a do-over. Just let it lie and do an animated adaptation of the books in 10 years.
Woolie, they're planning to go in deep with the story that's why the timeskips are done. They've already set up baby Aegon III and Viserys II for The Blackfyre Rebellion PART 1 lmao
I imagine the whole HOTD ends with the story of Brynden Rivers/The Three Eyed Raven a.k.a. The Most Interesting Man In Westeros because that albino is also a half-Targaryen. Then a teaser subplot for Robert's Rebellion.
I'm kinda sad about Fire and Blood and other supplementary material for Song. I much preferred when we only saw the Targs through the lens of legends and stories and I had always kinda suspected, when I first read the books, these stories about dragons and Valyrian magic were embellished through the passage of time in-universe and that maybe the Targs were just like regular people flaws and all. It would absolutely been in tone and would have also been more historically based like how we contrast what we know of say Richard the Lionheart/Ragnar Lodbrok/Charlemagne/etc etc now vs the legends that built up around them that the medieval people would have believed. But nope. The targs actually totally were super awesome and perfect and beautiful and fair and had violet eyes and had fire magic and dragons and alchemy and yada yada yada. Oh well.
@@silverwolfe3636 GRRM said he would have preferred if they started from the very beginning when the Targs first flew over to Westeros for conquest to give an FULL story of their family's downfall, but the showrunners didn't want to go with that. The first season is already comprised of a bunch of original ideas just spitballed last minute (they're own showrunners confirmed this), so I don't have high hops of it in the long run. They don't actually seem to care what GRRM's input is.
@@ndt7379 I agree quite a bit. Yet still a part of me, some foolish part of me, is hopefully optimistic towards HotD as a show despite some GLARING issues in the first season. So I will watch it and if it does turn to shit, I'll probably still watch it. I watched all of GoT and even enjoyed the last two seasons more than seasons 5 and 6 tbh, although it was akin to enjoying watch The Room. And of course I will continue to pray for Winds to come out..... soon TM.
Targaryens arent fire proof that was just danaerys and even then she isnt as immune as in the show.
She's immune in the show but that's because the showrunners did their own thing. Yeah, Targs aren't immune or even resistant to fire, but GOT left that impression on most watchers... Sadly, I think HOTD is going with the same idea, since we saw Daemon fly through a bunch of flames unharmed in S1...
Shes not immune at all in the books. It waa just for Khals funeral when magic was involved
@@ndt7379 People really got that impression? If the Targaryens were universally heat resistant Viserys shouldn't have died the way he did.
@@adrianneagoe3652 and even then, in the books all her hair got burned off, but yeah good luck getting Emilia Clarke to go bald for two whole seasons...
Yeah Woolie why would this show dare to mention any of the great houses that have incredible power and influence and are the most important pieces on the gameboard for keeping the iron throne, nah that just fanservice jesus christ. read the books.
Incest: The game the whole family can play!
Another episode where the awful expletive noise is 4 times louder than the conversation.
Did Woolie just reference Dragonlane! 4:08 You rule man. I'm fanboying.
In this episode, Pat does not realize how difficult and horrible child birth is especially in an era without fancy hospitals. And even still, women can die.
No mention of the king whatsoever in this review 😢
Got a sensible chuckle outta pat's response to the orphan gladiators. Man stays true to his ideals
Woolie out here leaving out the conflict is not having incest
Some children in the show are even mocked for not being born of incest
Yes, the show House of Dragon is about Royal Houses and Dragons.
A little piece of me watching this live was waiting for the "actually, this show sucked" take to drop for some reason. Legitimately, despite some issues, has made solid improvements to the book and history with characters. Opening on showing the relationship between Rhaenyra and Alicent makes it so much easier to get invested in them personally, including the people around them by association. Maybe there is hope for the franchise as a whole to actively be fantastic again.
The only problem is that they've already steered far away from the books. That whole dragon popping out of the ground during the new king's correnation was never recorded in any books by the maesters, so even the 'unreliable narrator' excuse doesn't work. There's a whole clip (I can link it if asked) of one of the showrunners saying they were all spitballing ideas in the writing room for how to end the season with a bang and someone just said "wouldn't it be cool if a dragon burst out of the ground!?" as the reason why it happens. That's why it feels so out of place and nonsensical for her to not toast them right then and there, because it's a completely show original moment that didn't happen in the actual book lore. Rhaenyra and Alicent were never described to be friends, but even if we assume that's because the maesters filled in the blanks or embellished what they didn't know about their personal relationship, the two straight up weren't close in age. The reason why they're so close in age for the show is because one of the showrunners (the show has like 4+) wanted them to have love interests with each other, but the other showrunners didn't agree with him, so he left due to 'creative differences' after finishing the first 2-3 episodes. This is why Rhaenyra and Alicent appear to be more than just friends in the early episodes and then that's immediately dropped.
There's a whole bunch of stuff I can list, but the point I'm trying to make is that they've already gone to S8 levels of making shit up within the first season... after promising everyone they wouldn't do that for this show.
@@ndt7379 Agreed on the dragon bit, not the rest. Especially the Season 8 claim, that's an absurd reach dude.
@@galesturms What's absurd about it? The showrunners literally admitted to making up season finale ideas by spitballing ideas that thought would be cool. Rhaenys bursting out of the ground with her dragon is never recorded to have happened. The reason why she doesn't just end the war right then and there by torching the new king isn't because she saw Alicent protecting her family, it's because the writers mindlessly thought they would add a scene that would trend on twitter. Rhaenys wasn't even in the city when the new king was being named.
@@ndt7379 Brother, calling it out to be akin to season 8 is absurd given how utterly dogshit that is in comparison to the overall strong presentation and delivery of HotD. Like I said with the dragon bursting out as some sorta spectacle thing, that shit is dumb, and there's some other mildly annoying changes but comparing the two is wild. Also, as someone who also read the book, although it's goofy as hell it is not in total defiance or shaking the foundation that the story stands on.
@@galesturms I meant it was akin to S8 in terms of the direction they were going with the changes, not in terms of quality. They've already completely changed a bunch of events to the point where they're going to have a hard time making them work with what's supposed to happen later on. If they're already willing to just go "lol, wouldn't it be cool for views if X happened?" and write that in without thinking, it spells horrific results for the future of the show.
Hapsburg jaw shall reign again!
So Woolie it’s probably not going to be just 3 seasons, however the guys behind house of the dragon is looking at future seasons being about other time periods in the Targaryen’s history
You know, you gotta wonder what the Asari were doing before space travel to diversify their genes. Were they just banging the local animal population or what?
The number of Woolie's opinions of the show predicated on incorrect information...
MAAAAAANNNNN the fucking confusion and freak out I had when the notification for this popped up
Good thing I wasm't in public, fucking christ
Woolie... There aren't tiers, when it comes to incest. You either have feelings for a sibling, and you act on em, or you're normal.
Exactly.
There's no "... ... ...Listen." when it comes to incest.
Will make a mild defense as there are what I consider three different groups, you have feeling for your cousin, for your sibling, or your parents. All messed up, but I bet everyone ranks them a little differently
brother/sister incest is normie tier. At least in Japanese media 草
There's definitely tiers, parent incest isn't the same as cousin incest
@@NeoBoneGirl Incest is incest bro. It doesn't matter who it's with.
Y'all should watch Better Call Saul
OKAY I KNEW THERE WAS A REASON WHY WOOLIE WAS MY FAVORITE CAST MEMBER! Zack & Merry was a great movie, hilarious even.
Woolie shows the he is indeed a cultured individual 😎
Show Woolie that X-Files episode.
i think its funny how house of the dragon clearly follows the Book's lore not the show's
You're in, like, the first few pages of the book. Viserys is about 2 sentences in the book, seasons 1 was ALL him.
how the fuck did woolie get ads on this lmao
Love the Gungrave reference lol
House of incest? Is that one of those visual novels that Liam plays?
I wonder how quickly this got demonetized 😅
i only watched this to see if woolie liked the black clan
you cant spell win without the in , in incest .
so wincest
15:45 Pat's face is a golden emote opportunity. 15:56 laugh as well. Those came from deep.
a regular fire emblem game
Judging by the comments, GoT fans still dying on that smoking crater of a hill.
milly alcock and matt smith carried that show
Why can't they censor like normal humans and not have an obnoxious jumpscare every minute
Agreed. I'll continue to dislike anytime I hear that obnoxious sound.
you're scared of it? wow.
@@miguelnewmexico8641 yes very scary
Pat knows the struggle
A lot of what you're seeing in this regard is thanks to wine moms thinking it was the sexiest thing since sequent pants.
sequined*
@@miguelnewmexico8641 Damn, thank you
😊 well incest was created by gods and demons well I guess it's nature taking its course
Please...stop with the poyos
It's annoying. And the fact, these fuckers, bent the knee to censorship, the hype train is slowing down
Poyo!
I will happily take a repetitive, chunky fart noise sample rather than this
Maybe a Reggie sound clip. I never tire of him.
@@slightlyautistic789 They're canadian. It's in their blood.
grim?
wincest
I love the peeved fans in the comments here lmao. Like, relax, nerds.
Dragon show bad because dragon not real🤓
Like.
So just FYI, the show about incest, uncles wanting to have sex with their niece, brother and sisters having sex with each other, a 10 year old being betrothed off is not a good show. And it's not just because of the incest. It's because the whole show every conversation is about either incest or "who should be the heir". Long boring incest conversations in a show in which literally every character is unlikeable. The two characters you MIGHT root for, one is a decrepit dying man who turns more and more into a ghoul every episode and the protagonist who wants to fuck her uncle and killed an innocent man to cover up the fact that her husband is gay, and then wants to make her bastard child who she and EVERYONE knows is a bastard as the king.
Not a good show, don't watch. Music and dragons are amazing though.
i have a sneaking feeling it's about a *little* bit more than that. either way, sounds like you already watched it and you're never getting that time back. sucks for you :)
@@miguelnewmexico8641
I minimized it a bit but it's really not about much more than that at all. It's betrothals and succession. There isn't much of an external threat that warrants their time at all. No country to go to war with, no mystical ice walkers threatening to cover the world in winter, no evil necromancers.
Just succession and incest betrothal.
First?
all these bloody ACTCHUOLEE comments lmao
god forbid people know things.
HOTd > GOT imo. It cuts all the fat of the OG series, and the characters seem less revolting than the original. I liked this series more than The Last of Us
8 seconds. New record XD