Those parts aren’t exposed and therefore don’t get corroded, you need two things for corrosion to happen, air and moisture, of which screw threads would experience neither. I’m not saying this ain’t fake I’m just saying that screw threads wouldn’t be rusted if it was real
That true thats just a one skin of rust but the truth is the real rust eats the iron from the inside which u cant restore these just fake vids i think they make path of rust water and they drop the guns in
он нагель на прикладе не поставил , и вставка под ремень задом на перед стоит ,кстати магазин он не взвел а тупо собрал ,и че ж он возвратную пружину с демпфером не показал ,ну мог бы хоть ствол выбить и заворонить его нормально .
@@БернардоКристиан-ч3ф я как то нашёл в поле диск от ппш, пополам разбитый плугом от трактора, получилось даже разобрать его пружинный механизм, так вот внутри он сохранился хорошо) и это спустя 80 лет в земле
@@БернардоКристиан-ч3ф I've seen some examples of the insides of guns being in good condition even if the outside looks awful, as they weren't really exposed to the air as much. But if it was submerged underwater, then that would be an exception as it would corrode the inside too.
Amazon how such an old and rare gun was so rusted yet had no pitting. That stock is in really good condition considering how much moisture was around that gun
Состояние обычного влажного склада и к слову ппш-41 а конкретно этот ппш-41 образца 1942 года не редкий их очень много вот ппш-41 образца 1941 года и выпуска март-февраль 1942 года вот они редкие их мало)
@@Oliver_11_the_little_western Did you know that guns rust differently? Surely you'd know that GERMAN STEEL WAS SUPERIOR TO SOVIET STEEL. Also, the PPSh was practically stamped out because the 7.62x25 Tokerav recoiled so little. The Maschinenpistole (MP) 40 needed thicker steel because of higher pressures of the 9mm Luger. Not all guns are created equal.
The PPSh-41 was a brutally effective submachine gun made for mere pennies in comparison to Western made weapons like the Thompson and Owen. Besides the big arsenals like Tula and Izhevsk, the PPSh was made in small workshops that had tools for stamping metal parts. Sometimes, barrels from Mosin-Nagant rifles were cut down and used to make these burp guns. There's not a lot to hold that bolt back from making the gun run wild at a blistering rate of 1200+ rounds per min. Tokarev ammo is hot for a submachine gun.
I have a friend who's grandfather served in the Red Army from 1943-45 and was issued a PPSh and he HATED it. In his words it sprayed bullets all over the place and the magazines were questionable in terms of reliability. He actually ditched his for an MP-40 and preferred it by far.
@@tiberiusvindex804 Yes, anything that fires at the tremendous rate a PPSh did can get away from you. Soviet workmanship was shoddy for most of the war, so I can see poor fitment between magazine and gun being an issue. That all goes back to Soviet doctrine in realizing the expendability of its soldiers. You can judge what value a country puts in its fighting men by the quality of gear they send them into combat with.
@@JG-fi9ub I do get it. Hint: almost all the guns look like they been exposed to the same of environment. My guess is, they have been and it's an artificial one too.
As soon as I saw the pins come out and the inside of the drum mag I knew it was rusted by you. I’m sure it has a little on it but, lack of pitting for the amount of rust doesn’t compute.
Приветствую. Видеоряд конечно хороший. Но можно ли это назвать реставрацией? Это скорее поточный ремонт. Причем сам ППШ не дает покоя. Характер коррозии - не складской. Тем более не чердачный. Как писали ниже, создается впечатление, что его относительно недолго подержали в воде, а потом перенесли на съемочный стол, где провели сеанс полной разборки и сборки. Для новичка, мало что понимающего в реставрации - видео будет интересным, Для реконструктора и реставратора - видео малоинтересное и скучное. Честно говоря первое видео на этом канале. которое я просто перемотал. Диз безусловно ставить не за что, но на вподобайку нужно выбирать другую натуру и другую работу.
Пардон, смотря какие складские хранения, там тоже один другому рознь, и на складе может проржаветь, да и на чердаке тоже ! То что это явно НЕ КОПАНЫЙ экземпляр имеющий метку ММГ никто не спорит ! В чем суть вашего текста ?
Congratulations. This Is an awesome work. From the deep of the corrotion, this is a PPSH-41 reborn, with an excellent techniques. "Máster Gunsmith, I Salute You". Greetings for you, from Guatemala, The Land of Quetzal Bird, Símbol of Freedom.
He knows this weapon well--I enjoy the clip--saw my first pps --in salzburg in the castle/burg museum ( a soldier of the ww2 captured it and used it --and gave it to the museum) --thx rollf
Сначала старичка намеренно изгадили, весьма неправдоподобно, а потом довольно неумело (местами) восстановили. Чисто для нового видоса старичок пострадал..
No desensambla el cañón, a pesar de que solo basta sacar un pasador. Excelente, muestra que el PPSh solo tiene un perno, todo lo demás se sujeta con pasadores o encajes.
Этот ППШ специально выдерживали в солевом растворе чтобы он немного заржавел. Когда он его от ржавчины отмыл он был как новый, а барабан вообще внутри выглядел как новый. Моё мнение этот ППШ купили новым сняли приклад и поместили в солевой раствор чтобы он заржавел. Я видел много рестовраций металлических предметов которые реально лежали в земле много лет и у них после промывки ржавчины были совершенно другие последствия и в жизни тоже много видел много металлических предметов которых время не щадило.
I like how a whole bunch of people got hung up by if it's real or not, even if he faked it. I'm pretty sure this is the exact way that you would restore it so nothing changes except the intent. The skill is very evident in this video
wohl gemerkt muss das ding gerostet haben nachdem die schulterstütze abgebaut worden ist plus war nur der Bolt und keine Feder im Gehäuse was irgendwie sinnlos is
Then these guns wouldnt be in that condition. They look like old warehouse guns from eastern europe. If they were dig up or magnet fishing findes then the rust wouldnt be that perfect on it and it would be way harder to disassemble it
Actually to me it looks like artificial aging. If they were legit old and coroded he wouldnt be able to disassemble it like that without serriousli damaging the components also the wood would be in very vad condition if it would even be there at all. Nevertheless its satisfying to watch him work
@@ivanivanov4563 is possible to disassemble without serious damages. but its a lot harder to do. but i would say to that this one might be artificial aged.
@@finn4004 fine you can use ultras sound and a wide variety of chemicals to loosen some of those pins and joints but the screws are quite unlikeley also if it was truly old an coroded all the time certain parts would be severely damaged and coroded through for instance theleaf spring in the drum. Even if it wouldnt be coroded thgough and through it would be in a very bad condition and even after all that work on it you would be still able to se the cavities left there by corosion, which isnt the case here. The second thing by which you can determine if the object was exposed to the elements for a long time is its organic parts, a wooden furniture for instance. No matter how well you preotect the wood, if it was exposed to moisture sooner or later it would get to the wood itself and that would at least leave cause some serrious damage, mainly rot, to the stock, which looks quite healthy in that video. When people bring me such coroded pieces for restoration I ussualy just advise them to clean them up and protect them from further decomposition and leave them be as they are, because if you start to disassemble such old and already damaged pieces you are very likely to do them more harm than good.
@R Wow, who knew? (obviously, you knew lol). Like I said, "novice" question. You don't know until you ask, and someone takes the time to educate you. Thank u. I appreciate the education.
@@chronichigh Sorry that you've been lured into this trap. These videos are almost all faked by rusting them himself. He either lets them sit out for a couple weeks or hits them with an oxidizer like hydrogen peroxide after scuffing them up with sandpaper or steel wool. I recommend Backyard Ballistics as a legit gun restoration channel.
I agree with the test fire post restoration. But nonetheless I love the way you edit your videos and the closeup shops of different process that are seemingly boring but way more intricate with a proper lense to convey your point. You could literally restore a rocking chair and have a leg up above the rest. Solid vids bro
I'm always mesmerized by these videos. The Weirmacht hated these guns. When they invaded russia there were so many with such s high rate of fire they could hardly lift their heads from cover without being peppered by one.
On the contrary. The Germans loved them because of their rate of fire and their simplicity. In fact they considered them better than the MP-40's they were issued with and many captured PPSh-41's were even converted to fire 9mm Luger.
Just a piece of advice...if you keep your guns in a gun safe instead of a barrel of salt water, they will stay in much better condition.
Nice😂😂
😂 true.
UA-cam gives for Russia premium! Ahaha. This difficult to understand
just excellent! :D there is nothing to add :D lol
Well this might be an original PPSH 41 from the war, who knows what it’s been through
i like how the gunn looks rusty but the screws and nuts and perfect without losing the threading
True dat😂
it's faked
Faked.
Those parts aren’t exposed and therefore don’t get corroded, you need two things for corrosion to happen, air and moisture, of which screw threads would experience neither. I’m not saying this ain’t fake I’m just saying that screw threads wouldn’t be rusted if it was real
Would be interesting to see how you make the guns look old and rusty. That video would get millions of views for sure
yea cuz most of rust restoration videos are fake
That true thats just a one skin of rust but the truth is the real rust eats the iron from the inside which u cant restore these just fake vids i think they make path of rust water and they drop the guns in
Probably by using electrolysis with rusted metal and DC current.
Fresh rust!
A lot of the internals with no rust is a give-away that the rust is new.
Этот ППШ выглядиь как со складского хранения, для ржавчины нарочно помещённый в воду
он нагель на прикладе не поставил , и вставка под ремень задом на перед стоит ,кстати магазин он не взвел а тупо собрал ,и че ж он возвратную пружину с демпфером не показал ,ну мог бы хоть ствол выбить и заворонить его нормально .
Так и есть ,, следов коррозии нет только поверхностная ржавчина , нас держат за дураков 😂
На этом сайте это - обычное дело...Но...ведь интересно же...😂😅😮
И клеймо "ммг" тоже много о чем говорит😅😅
@@nikr1995 ну,с него же стрелять не будут.Поэтому,как там пружина стоит,без разницы..
For an old Rusty mp that drum mag was surprisingly clean on the inside so were the springf coils. 😅
Правильно Подмечено 🤝 ! Это Шоу
@@БернардоКристиан-ч3ф я как то нашёл в поле диск от ппш, пополам разбитый плугом от трактора, получилось даже разобрать его пружинный механизм, так вот внутри он сохранился хорошо) и это спустя 80 лет в земле
@@БернардоКристиан-ч3ф I've seen some examples of the insides of guns being in good condition even if the outside looks awful, as they weren't really exposed to the air as much. But if it was submerged underwater, then that would be an exception as it would corrode the inside too.
BECAUSE ITS FAKE
@@xy_ironisnt it for entertainment yall are screwing peoples careers not even knowing whats happening on the inside
Now i wanna see him restore an actual old gun, with real rust and aging
What do ya mean
@@nancyc1691 its faked
@jamarafar9259 yeah I know I made the comment when I thought it was real
@@nancyc1691 oh lol
Amazon how such an old and rare gun was so rusted yet had no pitting. That stock is in really good condition considering how much moisture was around that gun
Clearly faked the rust.
@Andrew Hayes I watched a ww2 battlefield metal detecting video and a mp40 was found in the same condition as this ppsh41
Состояние обычного влажного склада и к слову ппш-41 а конкретно этот ппш-41 образца 1942 года не редкий их очень много вот ппш-41 образца 1941 года и выпуска март-февраль 1942 года вот они редкие их мало)
@@Oliver_11_the_little_western Did you know that guns rust differently? Surely you'd know that GERMAN STEEL WAS SUPERIOR TO SOVIET STEEL. Also, the PPSh was practically stamped out because the 7.62x25 Tokerav recoiled so little. The Maschinenpistole (MP) 40 needed thicker steel because of higher pressures of the 9mm Luger. Not all guns are created equal.
@@andrewhayes9373 Yup
The PPSh-41 was a brutally effective submachine gun made for mere pennies in comparison to Western made weapons like the Thompson and Owen. Besides the big arsenals like Tula and Izhevsk, the PPSh was made in small workshops that had tools for stamping metal parts. Sometimes, barrels from Mosin-Nagant rifles were cut down and used to make these burp guns. There's not a lot to hold that bolt back from making the gun run wild at a blistering rate of 1200+ rounds per min. Tokarev ammo is hot for a submachine gun.
I have a friend who's grandfather served in the Red Army from 1943-45 and was issued a PPSh and he HATED it. In his words it sprayed bullets all over the place and the magazines were questionable in terms of reliability. He actually ditched his for an MP-40 and preferred it by far.
@@tiberiusvindex804 Yes, anything that fires at the tremendous rate a PPSh did can get away from you. Soviet workmanship was shoddy for most of the war, so I can see poor fitment between magazine and gun being an issue. That all goes back to Soviet doctrine in realizing the expendability of its soldiers. You can judge what value a country puts in its fighting men by the quality of gear they send them into combat with.
No it wasn't
Might add well buy a TEC 9. These things were for shit
@@ar-sithf.austin3744 No what wasn’t??
Show us how well it shoots.
It goes like this ......bbb bbrrrrrrrrrt and sprays bullets in a 3x3 ft circle.
@@robsorgdrager8477 Is that you Michael Bloomberg?
@@robsorgdrager8477:)😅
I'd rather him show us how he rusted it up...
Have you seen the price of Tokarev rounds lately?
The camera work is just amazing !!!
a nice perfectly even rust patina you got there 😂
🤣
Funny more people just don't get it
Do you know how hard it is to get the acids and salts to make such a nice even coat of corrosion like that ? Give the guy some respect 😊
Have you ever restored a firearm??????
@@JG-fi9ub I do get it. Hint: almost all the guns look like they been exposed to the same of environment. My guess is, they have been and it's an artificial one too.
As soon as I saw the pins come out and the inside of the drum mag I knew it was rusted by you. I’m sure it has a little on it but, lack of pitting for the amount of rust doesn’t compute.
зачёт !прям приятно смотреть как разбирается и собирается !И удаление ржавчины прикольно !
Это постановка. Деревянная часть заранее снята, ППШ обильно смачивался до состояния ржавого. Барабан внутри чистый смазанный.
Приветствую. Видеоряд конечно хороший. Но можно ли это назвать реставрацией? Это скорее поточный ремонт. Причем сам ППШ не дает покоя. Характер коррозии - не складской. Тем более не чердачный. Как писали ниже, создается впечатление, что его относительно недолго подержали в воде, а потом перенесли на съемочный стол, где провели сеанс полной разборки и сборки. Для новичка, мало что понимающего в реставрации - видео будет интересным, Для реконструктора и реставратора - видео малоинтересное и скучное. Честно говоря первое видео на этом канале. которое я просто перемотал. Диз безусловно ставить не за что, но на вподобайку нужно выбирать другую натуру и другую работу.
Exactly !
ты не видишь,что там достойный экземпляр просто в соли дней 5 полежал,он его просто помыл и пошоркал?)
Видос-наебалово
Пардон, смотря какие складские хранения, там тоже один другому рознь, и на складе может проржаветь, да и на чердаке тоже !
То что это явно НЕ КОПАНЫЙ экземпляр имеющий метку ММГ никто не спорит !
В чем суть вашего текста ?
@@РАшенСлавянов а что значит ММГ?
@@Maloy666_GYM макет массо габаритный (ММГ)...Изготовлен как правило из настоящего оружия но приведеного в не рабочее состояние.
*_I have watched many of this kind videos but honestly this one was more perfect and in detail_*
This is the most aesthetic restoration video I’ve ever seen
Качество съёмки перекрывает даже саму работу. Волшебно. Вот это мастер!😂❤
Это да
Congratulations. This Is an awesome work. From the deep of the corrotion, this is a PPSH-41 reborn, with an excellent techniques. "Máster Gunsmith, I Salute You". Greetings for you, from Guatemala, The Land of Quetzal Bird, Símbol of Freedom.
Amazing, this piece of history shreds
I'm not a gun person, but I can help, but be impressed by your craftsmanship. Very nice job.
dude, you know what you are doing. great work.
Ppsh is a legend of a gun.
BRAVO TRES BELLE REALISATION.....ET RESTAURATION...CHAPEAU.A VOUS.
просто красиво и работы тут столько, что можно на работу не ходить )
You're just running history now
idc that the rust is fake its still cool to watch
Сначала приклад сняли, и бросили на несколько дней в кислоту. Потом типа отреставрировали. Для контента. Фуфлогоны.
WOW is very Nice job , Capon .🇨🇦👍
Bro it's fake
Saludo desde la República Dominicana excelente vídeo
Beautiful work!
Hola My friend , eres maestro en la restauración felicidades 👍🏻
What camera/cameras are you using? Great production.
Parabéns pelo seu trabalho!!
restoration of a gun that you already had in good condition and just rusted it a bit. NICE
I really like how you said what you're doing on the screen
Отлично поработал над дедом!!!😂👍🍻
I don’t care if it’s fake or not I love seeing things getting restored
Прикольно,и Шпагина PPS и Судаева PPS.
He knows this weapon well--I enjoy the clip--saw my first pps --in salzburg in the castle/burg museum ( a soldier of the ww2 captured it and used it --and gave it to the museum) --thx rollf
Maybe it's because it's been faked and artificially rusted.
Wow, the end result is breathtaking! You have such a talent for restoration[9:50].
Maybe better than Kinzler Bros.- Outstanding job!
Kinzler bros are amateurs and this guy fakes like mad. Go watch Mark Novak, a real master gunsmith.
Outstanding fake rust job.
Good to see that this Shpagin gets a second chance at life.
It’s amazing how little he must think of his audience.
At last it's good to see someone that knows how to use WD40 properly.
ימניק
The true boy asmr 😂🎉 great job 👏
Love the camera work 🎉
Superb expertise & filming.
Nice paint job you paint it yourself?
Nice job fun to watch.
Lavoro splendido, hai fatto un capolavoro. Grazie per il video, fatto molto bene e di ottima qualità.
Thanks. Классно помыли старичка. Very good job. 😊
Сначала старичка намеренно изгадили, весьма неправдоподобно, а потом довольно неумело (местами) восстановили. Чисто для нового видоса старичок пострадал..
Ficou toop meu sonho e ter uma dessa
Very smart heating the oil before use it to hard the steel is a very good idea what means a good job restoring those weapons..good job and good luck👍
Now thats a true piece of History to kool.
Camera is very clear ❤
Well done Sir yet again, but does she Fire .?
Wow amazing old gun
When someone starts banging a metal hammer on antique metal you know right away somethings off
Wait a minute I never thought of that 😂😂😮
@@Rock_rules1324 It's clearly fake.
And the clamping of the barrel
super netjes gedaan mooi om te zien
Waw❤ nice apresate you ❤
Cool close ups.
So do you apply artist's rust compounds for the fake ageing or do you just scrub the oils off and leave it outside for a week?
Nice one!. Hope to see it fire. Nuff said!.
The weapon restored is a classic and of historic importance. Therefore it was well worth the effort involved
Really! He first had to put it in this condition to “restore it “
It’s fake asf lol
restore and SHOOOOOT ITTTTT !!!! good video either way
This type of rusting is from a few weeks outside… nonetheless excellent results. What a find.
What a fine my ass, he rusted this himself and you know it
@@YeahADabilldo THANK YOU SOMEONE WHO ACTUALLY REALIZED.
Lol, what did you spray on this thing to make it look rusty?
Особенно впечатлил бубен, даже краска вся родная. Что то тут не так.....
Да что не так то ? Ну был в плохих условиях хранения образец. ММГ , взяли и отреставрировали . Копаный был бы более ржавый и в раковинах ...
No desensambla el cañón, a pesar de que solo basta sacar un pasador. Excelente, muestra que el PPSh solo tiene un perno, todo lo demás se sujeta con pasadores o encajes.
Una máquina de escribir de Chicago....
i agree it looks great but does it work or is it a mantle piece
Not only was this a good redue but the up close photo work was great... just sayn'
Dick Tracys weapons of choice....ratatatatatat....hell break loose😅
Этот ППШ специально выдерживали в солевом растворе чтобы он немного заржавел. Когда он его от ржавчины отмыл он был как новый, а барабан вообще внутри выглядел как новый. Моё мнение этот ППШ купили новым сняли приклад и поместили в солевой раствор чтобы он заржавел.
Я видел много рестовраций металлических предметов которые реально лежали в земле много лет и у них после промывки ржавчины были совершенно другие последствия и в жизни тоже много видел много металлических предметов которых время не щадило.
I would like to have seen the inside of the barrel.
Bro about to join the money
Fantastic: the idea, the way you do and show it to us... excellent quality! thank you!
It's amazing new rifle good job buddy 💪👏😊
It's fake you know?
I like how a whole bunch of people got hung up by if it's real or not, even if he faked it. I'm pretty sure this is the exact way that you would restore it so nothing changes except the intent. The skill is very evident in this video
man that when gun start spinning at the end with that music its time to get up and just clap yo hands and dance
The process is very well detailed, neat and well edited
Fake comment in a fake video
Ppsh41 the best machine Gun of the ww2 !
Stupenda bellissimo ❤
Das gute daran ist sie haben ein Edelstahl innen Lauf der nicht rosten kann und somit auch sehr robust sind.einfach aber genial. 😊
wohl gemerkt muss das ding gerostet haben nachdem die schulterstütze abgebaut worden ist plus war nur der Bolt und keine Feder im Gehäuse was irgendwie sinnlos is
Great quality video and restoration. Where do you find your guns? Magnet fishing?
Then these guns wouldnt be in that condition. They look like old warehouse guns from eastern europe. If they were dig up or magnet fishing findes then the rust wouldnt be that perfect on it and it would be way harder to disassemble it
Actually to me it looks like artificial aging. If they were legit old and coroded he wouldnt be able to disassemble it like that without serriousli damaging the components also the wood would be in very vad condition if it would even be there at all. Nevertheless its satisfying to watch him work
@@ivanivanov4563 is possible to disassemble without serious damages. but its a lot harder to do. but i would say to that this one might be artificial aged.
@@finn4004 fine you can use ultras sound and a wide variety of chemicals to loosen some of those pins and joints but the screws are quite unlikeley also if it was truly old an coroded all the time certain parts would be severely damaged and coroded through for instance theleaf spring in the drum. Even if it wouldnt be coroded thgough and through it would be in a very bad condition and even after all that work on it you would be still able to se the cavities left there by corosion, which isnt the case here. The second thing by which you can determine if the object was exposed to the elements for a long time is its organic parts, a wooden furniture for instance. No matter how well you preotect the wood, if it was exposed to moisture sooner or later it would get to the wood itself and that would at least leave cause some serrious damage, mainly rot, to the stock, which looks quite healthy in that video. When people bring me such coroded pieces for restoration I ussualy just advise them to clean them up and protect them from further decomposition and leave them be as they are, because if you start to disassemble such old and already damaged pieces you are very likely to do them more harm than good.
@@ivanivanov4563 From this video i understand that the gun have'nt the stock. The stock vaxed and oiled by author is a spare part for sure.
Reminds me of when I used to play cod world at war
для того чтобы реставрировать не обязательно умышленно портить оружие
У них видимо такого добра сотнями, чего не сделаешь ради видео 😂...
These videos are amazing. Novice question: Will any of these restored weapons fire?
@R Wow, who knew? (obviously, you knew lol). Like I said, "novice" question. You don't know until you ask, and someone takes the time to educate you. Thank u. I appreciate the education.
@@chronichigh Sorry that you've been lured into this trap. These videos are almost all faked by rusting them himself. He either lets them sit out for a couple weeks or hits them with an oxidizer like hydrogen peroxide after scuffing them up with sandpaper or steel wool. I recommend Backyard Ballistics as a legit gun restoration channel.
@@willchrisman3220 OK, I'll check it out!👍
MAN THAT WAS BEAUTIFUL!!!!!!!
A short notation: PPS translates, as "Pistolyet-Pulyemyot Sudayeva". PPSh then - "Pistolyet-Pulyemyot Shpagina"
*Russian Anon delivers*
У них нету буквы Ш в алфавите, поэтому они от Sh берут только первую букву
one of my favorite weapons
Vous faites du bon travail !
Pure video skills hats off
I agree with the test fire post restoration. But nonetheless I love the way you edit your videos and the closeup shops of different process that are seemingly boring but way more intricate with a proper lense to convey your point. You could literally restore a rocking chair and have a leg up above the rest. Solid vids bro
Super cool. 😊😊😊
Did three this crap in the River for a month. That’s some surface level rust if I have ever seen one.
Конечно же без алкоголя не обошлось😂
А что ж без него обходится то ?)
Looks like a PPSH, not a PPS which was it's cheaper to produce cousin. I could be wrong though.
I'm always mesmerized by these videos. The Weirmacht hated these guns. When they invaded russia there were so many with such s high rate of fire they could hardly lift their heads from cover without being peppered by one.
On the contrary. The Germans loved them because of their rate of fire and their simplicity. In fact they considered them better than the MP-40's they were issued with and many captured PPSh-41's were even converted to fire 9mm Luger.
The weapon is a large piece and cannot be thrown away like this and rusted without someone finding it!!