WILL THIS MAKE EVERY PLUGIN SOUND BETTER?!
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- Опубліковано 23 жов 2020
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In The future will we be using plugins that put back the non over sampling sound for that authentic 2020 vibe 😅
Exactly. This is why I don't like when people think old technology is superior. It's all a matter of perceptions
lmao
I’ve done some (admittedly not super polished or high-art) experimental projects where I’ve exported low bitrate MP3’s to get that authentic limewire sound lmao
@@downhill2k013 do you know how to get MiniDisc long player vibe?
Dangg this comment just blew my mind a lil
Me: oh, I think I hear it 😯
Him: ok now I'm going to switch it on
Me: 😐
😂
If i had this when i was maybe 20, i'd probably be a billionaire right now ! 🤭🤣
This is the best comment I have seen this year 🤣😂
HAHAHAH Nice reference!
@@Ram-Music word
😄😄😂
😂😂😂 Says the man sitting in front of a 1 million desk
But didn't early 90's hip-hop groups get sued for over-sampling?
😐 sorry
😂🤣
bah-dum-dum-tshhhh 🥁
🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@MEMFISAKA iz a joke dude....
Got eeeeeem
So it is possible to force oversampling for any plugin. Very useful.
5:18
This is why I love this channel. No Crap and a HUGE amount of coffee :-)
I downloaded the demo... did a few tests and you are absolutely right! Thanks man!!!
In REAPER you can oversample the *whole project*:
- open project settings by hitting Alt+Enter and set Project sample rate to a multiple of the desired final sample rate (e.g. 192khz for 4x oversampling of a 48khz project)
- open the Render dialog; set the correct output sample rate and tick "Use project sample rate for mixing and FX/synth processing"; hit Apply to save these options for future renders
Also in the global preferences under Audio / Device there's the "Allow projects to override device sample rate" option - I think that you can turn it off for mixing if your CPU can't manage and the render options will still get applied (because an offline render doesn't actually run on the device clock).
Of course internal oversampling of an individual plugin means that _outside_ of the plugin the harmonics above the Nyquist frequency are simply *gone*, and can't be processed by other plugins after it - which might be beneficial, or not, I'm not sure.. might be a fun thing to test out someday.
Huge difference! The non-oversampled one sounds flappy but the oversampled one sounds smoother and rounder.
This is actually the first time I've heard a truly big difference that made sense. Digital distortion to me always had this "crackly", "broken" character, but I didn't know that this wasn't supposed to be there. Now it just sounds like nice tube saturation.
Excellent video. I made one a few weeks ago about retaining some analogue warmth, I guess I have to redo it and employ this plugin as well.
What's missing here @White Sea Studio is mentioning IMD (Inter Modulation Distortion), which is when any ultrasonics of the source material interferes to create nasty biproduct frequencies in the audible spectrum. To get rid of that you need to filter out any supersonic frequencies (only some tracks will have that). I use AirWindows Ultrasonic which was built for that specific purpose.
i run here Adams A7x and I CAN hear the difference. Thank you for this test. It opens up the highend and the distortion on the drums is much less dirty and not so "agressive".
Actually it removes some reflected harmonics that should not be there resulting in less high frequencies in this case, thus less aggressive perception.
I always learn something interesting from your videos. Keep up the great work! 👍👍👍
wow it feels a lot warmer
This looks awesome! Didn't think about that
Really good plugin i must say!
And really good channel, keep up man!
Great Video as always. I´m on Yamaha HS7s and there clearly was a difference audible. Very helpful, Thank you
Coolest plugin thing I've seen in 2020, thanks!
I can hear the difference even on my basic laptop speakers, very nice!
Just what I had been looking for. Bought the plugin. Thank you!
price?
@@boimesa8190 € 53,24
I could definitely hear a difference on that drum track, especially when you focus on the ride cymbal. at the native sample rate you can hear that digital high end being added back in from the aliasing and the oversampled version smooths that out substantially. If only I had the CPU power to run all my plugins oversampled...
I think this is supposed to work like the Splitter feature in Studio One or FL Studio Patcher. Since Reaper deal with advanced routing quite differently, its nice to have this little thing. I did not notice that it literally oversample a plugin, thats a massive bonus there.
Greetings from Brazil, mr. Snake Oil-dutch-guy
Greetings from The Netherlands, mr. RC-brazilian-guy :D
popr3b3l gday from Aus, mr pop rebel man
@@reisakakibara Greetings to you too, Aussie!! Are you gonna be rooting for Danny Ric during tomorrow's F1 race?
@@reisakakibara Oops, that is already "today" for you hahaha
Opaa, eae meu man, que bom que n sou o único brasileiro. 🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷
Thank you for the video. My life will never be the same.
Like I've been warned about oversampling, but now I can see it with my own eyes. (and hear as well)
The sad thing is that I'll have to worry about this from now on. But that's a valuable info for me.
Love your videos man. Peace.
wow!!! you´re the man! thank you!
Dayum! Huge effect!
In addition to those highs coming from the bass drum, all the high frequencies are extended, or rather they are no longer being rolled off.
You can really hear it on the reverb from the snare drum. It’s very much extend and more open and airy with Oversampling applied.
This all signifies that without Oversampling, certain signals will have a lot of their highest frequencies rolled off.
Great demonstration. Yeah, weird plugin… but useful if your system doesn’t get bogged down.
happy you discovered it after many years that plugin is out
Guci muci thats looks great! Thank you very much.
Very cool. I do believe you because you are sincere keep that up
I love the Metaplugin, use it all the time
I have no Idea why but i want this now 🤣great content as always
I agree oversampling in fore than enough to make a difference, specially when we use dozen on devices on our projects, too many thing add harmonics, so eventually the aliasing build up giving a weird unnatural sound
I heard the difference even on my iPhone XS speakers. With over sampling there’s less high end crackle in the distortion. Which makes sense since there actually are fewer harmonics and therefore less high end.
So, how do you use this in a DAW? Do you just load this into your channel strip as a VST and create your signal path inside the plugin?
Btw, another term for foldback distortion as mentioned at 2:11 is "Nyquist reflections".
This comes from the frequencies that are being folded back being sort of "reflected" in terms of its frequency at the Nyquist frequency.
The Nyquist frequency is the highest mathematically possible frequency you can perfectly encode into a signal of any given sample rate.
This is roughly half, so a sample rate of 48Khz, for example, has a Nyquist frequency of 24Khz, which is still above the range of human hearing, however, if the sampling algorithm doesn't properly filter these frequencies above the domain in question or no oversampling is used, these frequencies above this will just be represented as Nyquist reflections or as mentioned here "foldback distortion".
Nothing wrong here just wanted to add that term for anyone curious :)
Nice that you bring this up. I tried out metaplugin a while back but got a lot of buggy/crashy behaviour, unfortunately :( This was the AU version running in Logic.
Oh and btw, have you tried Shattered Audio SGA1566? Very good freeware tube emulation with oversampling options which make the difference very obvious to hear (even going from 1x to 2x in low cpu mode)
I also had a rough time of it.
thanks fabfilter for the 32x oversampling
GooOOooD... Reallyyy GooOoooD. Sure aliasing is audible and I don't even talk + + + + Aliasing on many tracks. Even on UA-cam I get the difference from your files and do use also FF Q3/Saturn etc so really know what it does and Yes again I can hear but in my Humble Home studio (RME UCXII&Kali IN8-2nd) ;-) Thanks 🙂
What's the CPU cost per instance? How would you recommend using this in actual production workflow?
It's very negligible. I've had sessions loaded with instances of it and had no problems.
Shouldn't it the oversampling plugin be in last chain "Post" afterwards the EQ plugin? Not "Pre" before..?
That means example insert the oversampling plugin after the Waves plugins to utilize oversampling.
@@facelessproduction If I understand correctly, the plugin applies oversampling to the plugins it hosts. (I guess it creates an environment where the sampling frequency is higher and gives them more samples to work with). So just placing it after an effects chain would be useless.
I found that if I put plugins inside the metaplugin and dial up the oversampling, I get far fewer reflected inharmonic artefacts.
"Span" is a good tool to use to look for the reflected frequencies. www.voxengo.com/product/span/
@@chonkypixel1006 Thank you! 👍😊
Wow. Not only does it support 32-bit VSTs (Hello again Vanguard!) it also fixes aliasing on synths. So not only do I have Vanguard again, but I have super-futuristic alias-free analogue-sounding Vanguard!
That's... more than I was expecting.
_"...i'm buying my own time to spend on these videos"_
Best, most real and satisfying answer to "why support". Never heard anyone put it into words like this.
Around 3:10, How are you updating the spectrum everytime you increase the over sampling? I’m trying to do the same so I see the oversampling actually increase the quality while in Ableton. I’m using split screen on Windows to see both screens while the audio plays through. Instead of hardware input on spectrum analyzer, I set it to the laptop **** name because that’s what shows the audio playing.
Great tip, didn't know. Thanks. I would use it with care as sometimes digital artifacts can add a lot character and it may be a good idea to leave it without OS on but use very smooth shelving EQ to tame harshness. I think as always there isn't a wrong or right. Cheers
"as always there isnt a wrong or rigth" ? - so you defend the 3rd Reich now ? Pollution ? ahh its about tastes in music. Stuff being folded back randomly at Nyquist hardly makes up for desirable distortion as its too random and in no harmonic relationship, but YMMV.
@@woodsiee you may try to clean up your mind, enter emptiness and make it wide again.
@@nichttuntun3364 [edited]
@@woodsiee :)
@@nichttuntun3364 :) edited my remark, cuz its all good, and i didnt expected a nice reaction. ^^
A great tip. I need a wrapper that can handle 32 bit plugins, and this does this too!
Jbrige
Very noticeable on my Genelecs. DEFINITION.
Wyte’s I have an important question which I hope you can answer.
Is it possible to work in the project sample rate of 44khz but have specific desired channels to be a higher sample rate? Like 96khz
Because pitch correction works better at a higher sample rate. So instead turning the whole project to 96khz I want to be able to just record one track at 96khz. And I don’t want to convert it from a lower sample rate to a higher one I want to record it on the way in at the highest possible rate to affect it.
Question.. should we be running all our Fab Filter Pro Q EQ’s oversampled as well? Does it matter? Or only with distortion plugs?
Checked it in the studio today and this might have more positive impact on tonal content ;) BUT it's a very interesting plugin
Great tip.
so funny when he gets REALLY exited about something like this :)
but yeah! cool and interesting!
Would be a great feature for a daw
the plugin I wish had oversampling is Sound Toys Decapitator! but maybe this helps?
that's why I subscribed.
Problem with oversamplig is the Lowpass Filter. Before you down sample you have to cut the high frequencies ( above 20kh, depends on the oversampling factor).
It´s better to use a higher sample rate.... but for a lot of things I like to have oversampling
The low-pass filter is the *solution* with oversampling. High project sample rates just kicks the can down the line a couple of effects.
This is UA-cam but you can hear a lot more presence like it cleans up the distortion so it not so the frequencies aren't so crunched together
Do I put it on every individual track? Do I put it on the busses? Or both for the oversampling?
I definitely wanted to stop buying plugins. But this is really great. Just checked, works wonders on some old plugins.
I just run my session at 96khz and use hypersonic filters via airwindows console system. Can’t tell it’s not analog.
Please correct me if I’m wrong.
The only thing oversampling is good for is a limiter so that your limiter can react to peaks easier and get your mix louder without having intersample peaking. But oversampling for distortion makes no sense because no matter what, your mix is going to be bounced down or rendered at 48 kHz anyway and it won’t have enough samples to sample the information on its way down to your desktop. It’s futile because no matter what you’ll still wind up with the same aliasing artifacts unless you low pass somewhere toward the end of your mixing chain. If oversampling in the mix makes you less apprehensive about low passing while you’re mixing and you get a better mix because of it, great, but you’ll still need to low pass a little bit to help minimize the aliasing effect.
Oversampling includes a low pass filtering step. It is not futile because you can greatly reduce aliasing. The artifacts start up high, but creep further into the audible range with every non-linear effect down the line that doesn't oversample👍
@@betamale.3349 but the low pass filtering step is still pointless because it defeats the purpose of oversampling in the first place right? If you're going to be bouncing down to 48 or 44.1kHz it wouldn't make any difference. Because the whole point of oversampling is so you can have all those harmonics outside the audible range and not have them creating artifacts but if that audible range is going to either remain the same or end up being downsampled during the bouncing process it makes no difference if the distortion is oversampled. You may as well just add the filter without the oversampling. It literally makes no difference. It seems like a self defeating feature. At least with clippers and limiters the oversampling can help the plugin detect and capture intersample peaks so that you can get away with turning your mix up a little closer to digital zero without it analog clipping.
Although I am an oversampling snob and aliasing hits my OCd very hard this is an extreme case and yous till need to put your ears to 11 to hear it. Usually oversampling is not an issue, but there is really no reason why all plugin designers should not put oversampling in their plugins (khm, khm, Waves).
Any idea if it’ll actually go above the bitrate that plug-ins support? Like every Waves one (afaik) maxes out at 96. I’m guessing not.
Limit those to 2x oversampling. It won't work correctly at higher than supported rates.
You can also upsample everything and mix in 96k :) then you can get a ridiculous "512x" oversampling in plugins like StandardCLIP. Probably a good way to melt your computer though!
I heard it. Without oversampling the audio sounds "crowded" or "muddy in the highs". With over sampling it has more "depth" and sounds more "3D"
This is excellent! THANK YOU! At the beginning of recording digitally(I came from the 90's where it was all ANALOG!)I was very, very confused! As I learned to record ANALOG! So NOTHING I did turned out sounding good in digital, and I couldn't figure it out! I recorded as HOT as possible(loud)into digital, and didn't understand about ALIASING AT ALL(ALTHOUGH THIS DOESN'T NECESSARILY APPLY BUT...). Then I found out about proper gain staging in Digital vs. Analog(don't record so HOT). But it still sounded like shit using plugins! WHY? Well, all those old plugins had a shit ton of Aliasing which made them sound worse than without the plugins! Well it was because of Aliasing! It was so bad 15yrs ago that it was like having all you tracks be out of phase! SERIOUSLY! Turn off the plugins and bounce your track and BOOM! It sounded better! STILL TO THIS DAY 99% OF PLUGIN COMPANIES HAVE A SHIT TON OF ALIASING IN THEIR PLUGINS! WTF?
I just want a list of all the plugins, in each category(like EQ, COMPRESSION, DELAY, REVERB, SATURATION, ETC.)that don't have ALIASING in them fucking up your sound!
Or a minimal amount! Like a scale or something of 1-10 of all the plugins out there, and the amount of Aliasing or artifacting that negatively impacts the sound of your material!
It was actually REALLY obvious through my iLoud MTM's. Couldn't hear the difference through my M-Audio BX8's, but thankfully TODAY is the last day the M-Audio's will be my main monitors. Come on Fedex!!
You are my first teacher on UA-cam to teach me how to mix music and I thank you
@@PharaohLawLess1 Search the Internet for mixing tutorials/ mixing tutorial series, there are a couple. If you’re really serious you can probably do a better job paying for a comprehensive mixing course.
I have MTM's and could totally hear it!! The oversampled version sounded a lot more open and shiny.
nice drum groove btw! whats it called again? sand...something right?
very interesting...is there a way to oversample all the plugins in a session apart from loading an instance of this host in every track?
It is less effective to just run the project at a high sampling rate, which is equivalent to what you suggest. Dan Worrell (sp?) has a good video on it. Basically, if you don't filter the ultrasonic harmonics, they'll generate higher harmonics at the next saturator/compressor/etc. Eventually, harmonics will still bounce off the nyquist frequency into the audible range.
Also, I think that well programmed anti-aliasing can be not too bad CPU-wise compared to running a high sample rate and manually filtering ultrasonic frequencies at every stage👍
would this be effective in mastering or does it need to happen before that point? thanx, good find!
And even more; meta plug can oversample even more when bouncing (x16 as I recall , checking the 'offline' checkbox). But prepare for really loooong processing time
Would like to see your Reaper setup! What plugins would you recommend for those of us that cannot afford Fabfilter?
Tokyo Dawn Labs www.tokyodawn.net/tokyo-dawn-labs/
so this plugin is only good for distortion or with all your plugins?
My unpopular opinion: If you're over here struggeling to get a mix/song to sound better, aliasing won't do A N Y T H I N G to help or sabotage for you. Therefore: It doesn't matter. Just my opinion hehe
thall
Th0ll
True.
Also THALL
So true...
Yeap!
I have wondered for a long time why DAWs don't have this option to oversample any plugin.
It shouldn't be difficult to do and it would make things like that a lot more streamlined than using yet another plugin for this. Many great plugins don't oversample at all so they'll sound a bit nasty when pushing the saturation there, and I don't want to just have my whole project at high sample rates (it's just overkill in most cases imho).
I could hear the difference on laptop speakers and it did sound fatter. I've been using Metaplugin for years to wrap VST's in Pro Tools, but I honestly never messed with the over-sampling feature much. And recently, I've been trying to use Metaplugin less because it gets hard to keep track of what plugins are actually on a channel when you have so many instances of it in a session.
In ableton at least you can edit the info text for each instance so you can see what is saved inside
@@urasoul Yeah, I wish this were a thing in Pro Tools. with AVID's track record, I'm no holding my breath.
Shouldn't it the oversampling plugin be in last chain "Post" afterwards the EQ plugin? Not "Pre" before..?
Oversampling requires upsampling before the effect and downsampling after. If nothing happens between the two steps, oversampling is completely pointless✌️
I could hear the difference on my iPhone laying in bed - my favourite anechoic space
I wish they would just make an oversample option and include it in the effect freeze feature in Reaper..... Being that is reversible, it would be an amazing feature for eliminating aliasing and saving CPU usage. It's he kind of feature I would expect in Reaper... That would be so powerful and helpful.
What happens when you oversample this before plugin and have oversampling engaged in the distortion plugin at the same time? Some plugins already have it and maybe it will tank the computer...?
I think it would cause a worldwide pandemic.... waaaait a minute
@@MixChecks Sounds about right..
Brother it even came through the cell phone speakers!!! Thanks for this one. Cheers
I wonder if bluecats patch work has oversampling.
I bought this plugin couple days ago but I find 2 problems with this. First it’s crashing with UAD tape plugins and second was weird thin sound with Arturia preamp plugin (more oversampling = morę thin sound)
Can't you do the same by switching the project samplerate in reaper to 4x the samplerate of the files you are processing, so that reaper resamples the files 4x before going to plugins? Ofc that requires rendering at 4x higher samplerate and then resampling to what suits the client so it's another step to do, but isnt it the same?
It is, but that option is only an option when you have loads of cpu
No it isn't. fabfilter has done a great video on this topic.
@@ezrabrownstein3237 yes it is the same. metaplugin upsamples to a higher rate, then the hosted plugin processes at that rate - just as it does when your DAW is just running at a higher rate without that oversampling. and you don't get artifacts from the resampling process for _every_ single plugin, but only once globally.
@@desperateBeauty It isn't the same. Oversampling is better because of the filtering in the downsampling step. Watch the FabFilter video. Also, oversampling can be CPU efficient in the upsampling step because any ultrasonic artifacts get filtered out after downsampling
@@betamale.3349 I disagree, as you are down sampling at the end if you want to deliver at a lower rate, so ultrasonic filtering happens there too (it's the same process). but only once, rather than for every oversampled plugin (and AA filters aren't perfect, the fewer the better). if you mean because you filter out ultrasonics at every oversampled plugin, I don't want to filter them as I want them present in the final HD version. some people disagree I know.
In my experience, aliasing is only really an issue when applying non-linear processing to pitched high frequency sounds like glockenspiel or triangle. That sounds really ugly.
Unpitched high frequency sounds like cymbals will sound “different” if distorted (duh) but those added harmonics will sound like part of the distortion and not explicitly offensive.
In a track, combined aliasing sounds like shaped noise and is generally masked.
I have stopped worrying about it bit don’t use Exciter plugins on the master buss any more though.
all non-linear processing will do it to some degree (aliasing + aliasing IMD). The degree to which it makes a difference is your call, but it's in there and it builds up.
HOLY SHIT IT DID
By the way, one of the best sounding analog emulation Plugins is ddmf MagicDeathEye .
Could you just up-sample your mix down then from there get it back down to a standard bit & sample rate for commercial consumtion?
Yes.
Not necessarily. FabFilter has made a great video about this. It's called something like "Sample Rate: The Higher the Better, right?" I highly recommend it.
@@ezrabrownstein3237 But I thought if you have the sample rate at mix down at 96k or higher it would eliminate the aliasing and the plugins could operate at a frequency that they then won't have to over-sample themselves for this? Then you could just do a dither down after that if you are not using any plugins at that process(?). I heard that many plugins just sound better for instance run at 96k(?).
@@DalleyMusicyes exactly, that's the second reason why I run my DAW sessions at 96k. whether the final file benefits from that sample rate or not, all your plugins are then oversampled and there's only one sample rate conversion going on (when/if you eventually downsample the final mix), not one up and downsample for every plugin. more efficient, less artifacts, simpler.
@@desperateBeauty Oversampling *is* 2 sample rate conversions, one up and one down
You crack me up
What do you think about new Superplugin from ddmf??
Im a bit disappointed that you didnt explain anything about this plugin aside of the oversampling, was hoping for a full review
I want a vertex stompbox Dumble plig in
also you can check out Element by Kushview, it does the same but is actively being developed and has potential beyond MetaPlugin
are you sure it does oversampling? I don't see that mentioned on their website
@@urasoul yea it does, just right-click the VST, under options there is oversample, 1x to 8x selectable (though I don't know what VST would support 8x >= 192kHz, probably Melda does but they have their own internal oversampling)
@@krass76 great ok, thanks for the tip :)
@@krass76 hmm, I just downloaded element and looked everywhere but I don't see the control you are talking about in ableton. there's a cog symbol in the box that represents an inserted plugin, but there's no sample rate option. there also isn't in the main plugin settings. can you confirm which version of the plugin you are using? thanks
@@urasoul in element load a plugin, right-click on its node, you'll see it. though I suspect you have to save the project and restart your daw for the oversampling to take effect. And I'd save-as-new as some plugins may crash when loading with too high a sample rate. At least for me, Decapitator did.
Life saver! Ik zocht al lang zoiets omdat ik (ondanks dat ik een monster pc heb) het niet voor mekaar krijg lekker op 96khertz of hoger te produceren. Dit kan nu wel voor een stuk cleanere mix zorgen :) Thanks voor de tip!
Ja, productie op 96k is echt heftig!
I loaded my mastering chain into this thing copying the exact settings that I had on the last track that I worked on and at 4x oversampling it has immensely more low-end compared to the same plugs at the same settings on the same song. Why is that?
psychoacoustics! you think it - you hear it.
confirmation bias. *But* it might sound smoother, more detailed, less edgy in the mids with oversampling and you may be hearing that plus any effect of filtering on the highs.
Actually, if you demoed this with a synth the difference would be VERY obvious on the high notes.
what if u put saturn on max oversampling at the same time as the ddmf plugin?
would that be super analogue arnold style?
Then u get 4k ultra sampling! 🤣
You'd get more unnecessary up and downsampling steps.
@@michaelanderwald4179 so u dont upsample?
You can hear the difference a tiny bit here on UA-cam...a bit. Not sure if my phone's DAC is helping though.
huge difference in the transients obviously
incredible now my songs are gonna sound more analog