Every time i watch larger caliber videos... "Psh, that round drops off at 800 yards" - Me, who only has access to 200 yard ranges within reasonable driving distance
I have a pretty obvious theory that all these industry guys obsess over over ultra long range because there is a small but spendy amount of shooters who are willing to constantly upgrade their gear to the latest and greatest. They straight up aren’t interested in the average shooter for who thinks 200-400y is the longest they will ever go. Primarily because they don’t represent dollar signs.
@@Alan.livingstonI disagree. I think these guys are true ballistic nerds (and we all probably are too since we listen to them), and it’s inevitable to push things farther and faster. It’s just like the space race - who can get there first? I’m fascinated by all of these, and I’m a standard caliber non reloader guy. I’d love to do some long range shooting - if I can get the time and money. But I could be completely wrong too. 🤣
Definitely . I stumbled across one built by Iver Henricksen. One of Elmer Keith’s favorite gunsmiths. Look him up. He was from the era of P.O. Ackley and the other great pioneers of gun building.
I absolutely love the 338 federal. I loved it so much that I actually bought a second one. Both after it was a dead cartridge. Both are Tikka T3X. Ryan: take a long look at the Barnes 160 grain ttsx and the performance you get from it. I believe you’ll love your new rifle.
I am so glad you finally did .338 Federal. I have a TIkka T3 in .338 Federal. I shoot a 185 grain Hornady GMX , and it is my primary hunting rifle. It anchors every animal it hits as long as I do my part. I love this cartridge.
That’s be fun. I think it was originally intended as a silhouette match round. There are Dan Wesson DA revolvers floating out there in the .357 Max, plus some Rugers (though I hear they had flame cutting problems), and a lot of people with a .357 Mag single shot rifle have thought about rechambering to the Max.
I have a Ruger M77 in 338 federal and it's an absolute hammer on all game may very well be the best practical North America hunting round no one knows about 😅
I always thought, a Remington 7600/760 Carbine in .338 Federal, would be a perfect central/northern Wisconsin deer and bear rifle. I have carried a 760 in 30-06 carbine for 40 years. I have thought of getting a 7600 and having it re-chambered or re-barreled in .338. federal.
The 284 is certainly very underrated. I met a guy at a Mule Deer Foundation banquet that hunts with a 284 Winchester. He is getting near 280 Remington performance using 140 Partitions. He has used it to kill a handful of 170” plus mulie bucks and a several pronghorn bucks over 75” at distances over 350 yards. Again, underrated.
I’ve been working with the .284 for alittle over a year now. The new 150 Hornady Cx I’m pushing an average of 2875 fps. It’s definitely impressive. Next I’m gonna do a 25-284 so I can use the heavy 135 bergers and seat long for a long action. Should be darn near close to a 25-06 with better performance.
I’ve had a 338 Fed since it was standardized and love it. It’s killed more White Tails than I can count and I think 9 Elk with Federal Premium 210 gr. Nosler Partions, all one shot kills and no tracking.
My led balloon is the 7 wsm. It is a good cartridge that just didn’t win the popularity contest but post good numbers on paper and works great on whitetail. The 35 wheelen in my reloading book shows to produce more energy than the 300 win mag or the 338 win mag at the muzzle and that’s impressive. As a short range large game cartridge it should be a more popular choice. IMHO
I had one 7 WSM in a Winchester Model 70…it was excellent but difficult and expensive to find ammo for (I’m not a hand loader) so I sold it. I got a good price for it though because the guy that bought it had family that also shot that cartridge so he didn’t have as many of the negatives that I had to contend with.
Same. Had Remington not imploded (and that was around the time they started going way down hill) maybe they would have had a chance. Love the concept and am still eyeing BLR's and Henry Long Ranger's, but as a Marlin lover I keep holding off, hoping that maybe Ruger will do something similar with Marlin. Though the last I checked they still weren't even making the 1894, so any helical/box mag design is probably a decade off (if ever)
I love the 338 Federal. I can see a good 3 rifle combo of 6.5 Creedmoor, 280 Ackley Improved , and 338 Federal…..if I were smart. That said I own 223, 28 Sherman Magnum, 300 Sherman and 350 Legend…mostly in guns heavier than ideal. I think the issue is we all want something new, unique and sexy! 338 Federal is none of that, but I’d rather carry a 7.5lb 338 Federal than an 8lb 338 win mag. Also, we see ourselves as 800 yd deer slayers, but 338 Fed is a quite veristas 300yd rifle…..which most of my hunting shots are 300yds and under.
@@tombearclaw hmmmmm I guess we'll have to see. That's been a wildcat for a long time, so it might just gain traction once the military actually starts using them. Idk why they didn't just go with a 6.5 or 7mm tbh, but whatever... guess that's just them being weird lol. Imo 6 ARC was probably the best candidate for a lower-recoil option and 6.5 Creedmoor makes way more sense to me for their rifle, but hey - .27 cal is cool so I won't complain if it actually gains traction.
@@marcmoore4115yeah 7mm-08 could be awesome if given the hybrid case treatment. Imagine .280AI ballistics in an AR10 with a 160gr class of bullet traveling 2900fps from a 16-18" barrel. A "DMR" size rifle truly capable of reaching 1000yds with excellent terminal performance. I constantly have to talk myself out of selling a kidney so I can buy a sig spear just to tinker with it.
The .338 federal is my favorite, I'm saving to put a custom barrel on mine, with a 1 in 8 twist, because I love the 210gr Barnes, and want some extra rotational energy. Worth noting, the 160gr .338 bullets are usually barnes too, so being copper, that speed will work with them to penetrate well.
Pulling data from the internet doesn't speak for each and every person. Reloading keeps me in quality accurate ammunition. The 338 Federal and 338-06 A-Square cartridges are excellent. People that use these cartridges along with myself are in the know. Just because factory rifles and ammunition aren't being made doesn't mean the cartridges are dead. I reload, so expensive or hard to find proper headstamp brass isn't a concern. I easily use 308 Winchester and 30-06 Springfield brass with bullets from 180, 200, 210 and 225 grains. My Savage 16FCSS Weather Warrior in 338 Federal cartridge and Weatherby Mark V Ultra Lightweight in 338-06 A-Square cartridge are both outstanding performers. I also have an original stamped Rochester, New Hampshire Thompson Center Encore 15 inch pistol barrel in 338 Federal. Thor's Hammer Handgun! True big game hunters do not need to shoot 500 yards which in itself isn't hunting. Yeah, I also own a Savage 110 Hunter in 280 Ackley Improved. Once again easily reloaded with 280 Remington or 270 Winchester brass. Fireforming or hydroforming processes. Never will I own a 6.5 Creedmoor firearm. If I did get into a 6.5mm cartridge it would be the 260 Remington.
I feel like we need to see this in one of your cartridge wars videos. 308 vs 338 vs 30-06 vs 35 Whelen. I can't believe the 35 Whelen isn't in this conversation of necked-up awesomeness.
35 Whelen and .358win are both fantastic. Both used to get a lot of love, both are largely forgotten these days... Everybody thinks they need a 1000yd cartridge to hunt whitetail/mule deer these days, even though 95% of people never take a shot past 300, lol. The gun world is so far up it's own ass it doesn't know the meaning of practical... All about the hype, nothing more.
@@mfallen6894 right, I think if I was going to upsize a 308 i would skip the 338 and go right to 358. same for 30-06 kinda how its a crap shoot deciding between .270 and .284 if i was starting with 7mm and wanted to go smaller i'll skip the 270 and go 6.5 or 257
I picked up a Browning A Bolt in 280 Remington for a song in the late 80'. That was my only bolt gun until COVID. The largest game taken was a huge Red Stag. Everything I shot died. During COVID, hand loading supplies were gone. The only factory ammo on the shelf in my area was 30-06. So I bought a Savage in 30-06. Everything still died. Since reloading supplies are back, I'm back to my 280 Remington.
338 Fed in a Sako grey wolf I mean it’s basically the hammer of Thor 😂😂 but honestly I do love the cartridge and the rifle. Re loading to shoots amazingly well with the hornady leverevolution powder!!!
Woodleigh made specific projectiles for .338 Federal Sadly a fire destroyed the facility In Australia. But they are coming back. I have a Kimber Montana in .338 Fed and a Sako Grizzly also love them.
Federal did a great job, did what everyone was asking for then , few came out and bought it..??? I know a lot of everyday hunters, it is their only rifle, the 358 Win. is a good mention as well. 35 Whelen and 30-06 same issue, a great way to have a larger heavier bullet, in the same action and barrel length, with less powder than a mag. and still get great performance. Great Show.
I was gonna say that the 30-06 is a cartridge where it makes sense to neck up. The 338-06 and 35 Whelen are fabulous power house cartridges l. The 338-06 is very effecient and nips at the heels of the 338 Win Mag. As far as why someone needs a more terminally effective cartridge than a 308 or 30-06. It depends on what you primarily hunt. The 308 and 30-06 are good choices for people who primarily hunt deer with an occasional Elk or Moose thrown in. If you live in an area where you are constantly hunting Elk, Moose, or big bears a 33, 35, or 37 caliber makes a lot of sense
I adore the .338fed. Was a fairly early adopter & bought into the .480 Ruger around the same time. Both are criminally underrated cartridges that exemplify just how important marketing really is. It doesn't matter how good a cartridge is if the marketing team doesn't flood the shooting world with outlandish claims of it being the best cartridge for every application, ever. At least I still see .480 factory ammo every blue moon for about $90 a box (that I don't buy; now that Ruger owns Marlin they NEED to chamber the 1894 in .480 so that it has a shot of coming back) But I haven't seen a box of factory .338fed in 5+ years. Even Buffalo Bore gives it no support, and you can generally find really niche cartridges from them (though that's usually handgun, but still...) and it should be a round that's in their wheelhouse. I keep hoping 8.6blackout is going to take-off, but it still has zero support from major players from what I can tell. Sucks having to handload if you want a .338 rifle bullet (unless you want to pay $4+ a round for a magnum)
@@rockstar49858 I just checked ammoseek myself thinking you were surely mixing up 338fed with 338 Lapua or Normal Mag, but no: $5.75 & $6 for 338 fed! That's just criminal for a .308 necked-up to .338in...
@@boatratliterally the last "lead balloon" talk was about .444 marlin, they talk about all kinds of cartridges. Bolt guns are kind of their wheelhouse (Ryan especially) but they talk about many different firearms types.
There was plenty of 327 Federal ammo before the pandemic. I have some stockpiled for my Charter Arms Patriot 2.5” carry gun. For those who don’t know six shots hotter than any 38 special or 9mm. Only about 10% less than 357 Magnum.
@@davewinter2688the problem is ammo availability now…I was looking at it as an excellent carry option for my wife but there’s such a small amount of ammo available and what is available isn’t very appealing…like low recoil options, which neuters performance.
Love the content… I picked a 358win, an older leaden balloon, over the 338fed about when the 338 came out. With hand loads (of course) I get 100fps greater velocity with a 200gr pill in the 358 than with a 180gr in 308!! 358 has devastating performance on moose and large black bears (so does the 308 / 180 combo). But I just love the unloved cartridge.
An enjoyable conversation. A conundrum regarding the 338 Federal was that hunters, shooters, and writers alike have spent decades debating the merits of the 30-06 Springfield vs. the 308 Winchester, then comes along a cartridge that effectively resolves the debate (producing 30-06 velocity and trajectory to 300-yards out of a short action with all other variables equal) and yet the response was crickets. I suppose we all enjoy discussing such attributes as much, if not more, than using such well-engineered tools. Given that it performs well out of a shorter barrel length, the ~9% larger frontal diameter compared to 0.308" projectiles, and the moderate recoil I've homed in the 338 Federal as my preferred all-around eastern US cartridge. At least, that's my position on the debate : )
I've had a 338 Federal Sako 85 since about 2009 and it's my go to hunting rifle for anything inside 300 yards. It bests the 7mm Rem Mag for short to medium range but in a shorter action and barrel. As Ryan said in the video, you just simply take 308 brass and run it through the die and that's it, it's now 338 Federal. If you don't reload it's not easy to find ammo but there are some companies that still manufacture it. I can't speak for any 338 rifles other than my Sako, but with handloads I'm easily getting under 1/2 inch groups with 210 gr TTSX and IMR 8208 XBR powder loaded to the specs in the reloading manual. I can't say enough good things about the cartridge for reasonable hunting distances. I think the trend of everyone wanting to take shots on game past 600 yards is unethical and irresponsible for all but the best and most practiced shooters.
I'm a french hunter and i've been shooting more than 50 game from roe deer size (around 20- 30 Kg game) up to red deer size (200kg). Most of them only ran 20meters max considering that bullet placement is not always perfect on driven hunt. Shooting distances were in average between 50 to 150 meters. I'm so happy with that cartridge that i have now 4 rifles. The last one is a new straightpull rifle made by Stainsteel (german new mfg). With that one, out of a 20 inch barrel , i'm getting 870m/s speed with 165 grains copper bullet. I've been shooting multiple calibers (7x64mauser, 7rm, 308, 300wsm), none of them were that efficient compared to 338fed in driven hunt .
Not a lead balloon. A 227 grainer .338 Federal @ 650 b.c. is not an anchor. Basically 8mm Mauser....but better...and shorter. 2425 fps. Transonic at 1400 yards. Lead balloon? Sure. But so is 6.5 Creedmoor in 130gr Federal Terminal Ascent loading then.. The 130gr is trans at 1300 yards and has FAR less tissue displacement. Don't judge me.
Forgot to mention the BLR was factory-chambered in 338 Fed. If you get the takedown version, you can send it back to Browning and their custom shop will make/headspace additional barrels for your action and you can handload 243 Win, 260 Rem, 7mm-08, 308 Win & 338 Fed all using the same brass and shooting them from the same rifle with different scoped barrels.
I'm glad you guys mentioned the 8.6 Blackout. For those just looking for suppressed 338s, take a look at the 338 Razorback, 10mm brass and fits in the AR15 platform! 🎉
🤔 As a Timber/Deep Woods Elk Rifle Cartridge (Moose, Bear, and Bison at Close Range Too) in a light weight and handy rifle package (20" barrel), I could think of Nothing Better! 🥇 I Still Want One! 😂
.338 fed didn't make it but....358 win did. moderately did. Both amazing calibers but Ron Spomer shows that the .338 is actually balistically better in all aspects than the .308 and .358 Anyone have any ideas?
I have this idea in my head that a cartridge with a trajectory similar to .30-06 or 7m-08 (aka 7mm Mauser) are right in the middle of the range of large game cartridges. Narrower bullet respective to powder capacity leans toward long range shooter. Larger bullet leads to more of a thumper. .308 already leans toward thumper, and it’s cheap and readily available. Why go bigger? .308 is already a bit of a thumper.
I don't think 338 Federal will ever come into the mainstream because cartridges like 350 legend and 360 buckhammer are filling the "big bullet, close range" niche pretty well. It's a tinkerer's round, for someone who doesn't want to shoot something as pedestrian as 308 Winchester.
I feel like the majority of us shooters/hunters, myself included, get lost in the woods of what different cartridges CAN do, rather than focusing on what we really need from a cartridge in our personal applications.
Easy now, we can't be using logic and common sense in the gun world! If you're not on the hype train and claiming you take elk at 1600yd with your [insert brand new cartridge here] are you even really a hunter/shooter? Xd
If we don’t talk about the .284 Winchester as the ultimate led balloon I’ll be devastated! Also 25 wssm might be cool when considering the new high bc bullets
There's a .25 Sherman Short Tactical. Very similar to a .25 PRC. Can run 135gr bullets at 3200fps. Certainly one of the flattest shooting cartridges. Where I am at ~1600m elevation, it's only 5.3MIL to 914m (1000yds), 6.1 MIL to 1000m (1093yds). Also only 1.1 MIL windage in a 10mph crosswind. For reference, the 6mm Creed with a 115gr Nosler at 2900fps is 6.9 MIL to 1000yds, 7.9 MIL to 1000m and 1.5 MIL at 10mph wind... insane ballistics from that .25. Just a shame there are no .25 cal 135gr hunting bullets.
@@LRRPFco52 what type of velocity you looking at with that? I guess feeding would be worse with a 40° shoulder? Especially on such a short, stubby case. I think bringing the shoulder forward and making them more aggressive could be pretty cool though. Siunds like a fun little cartridge. I really want to build a .25 GT one day. Seems like such an awesome cartridge, both for target shooting, especially PRS, but also for hunting smaller game like Springbok/Pronghorn.
@@marcmoore4115 25 GT is probably the most practical, efficient, and capable manifestation of the Quarterbore. I've been looking at that too. There's a guy cleaning clocks with it now in PRS/NRL. I always have felt 130gr is where it's at for the 6.5-08 cartridges, but just wish the BCs were in the 142-147gr 6.5mm realm. Bam, 131gr Blackjack and then 135gr Berger in .257".
@@LRRPFco52 now also the 134gr Hornady ELD-M. Very cool to see them jump on board! BC isn't quite as good as the Berger 135gr and as far as I know, I think Blackjack closed down. 135gr Berger has a .33 G7 BC, 6mm tops out at .312 with the Nosler RDF, the first .264 bullet that beats the 135gr Berger is the 140gr Nosler RDF, 144gr Berger and 147gr ELD-M... absolutely awesome performance from them. I'll probably start off with a 6mm Creed though, as I only have a .308 lol. It'll probably be my next rifle.
I bought 2 Sako rifles in .338 Federal for my 2 young sons. I did so mainly because I love Sako rifles, and these 2 sat in the gun store for years without being sold. Got a good deal to take them off their hands, and we have been very pleased with how they shoot and perform! Manageable recoil for a young hunter with plenty of knockdown power. I'm glad to hear people trying to keep it alive.
I was really interested in building a 338 Federal upper for my AR but I didn't for one important reason you forgot to mention: terminal performance of .338 caliber bullets. Most. 338 caliber bullets are created for much higher velocity cartridges, and have much higher fps requirements for terminal performance than the 338 Federal can maintain for long. Once I realized that the realistic range of the round is about 400 yards to get desired terminal performance, I decided it wasn't worth it. Hopefully someday the round can be resurrected and someone will make 338 Federal specific bullets.
I have always wanted a .338 Federal, from the beginning of that cartridge. I just completely geeked out on the interwebs over the past couple of days reading about it, and asking questions in the webs. The 200 grain Speer hot cor might be the bullet that makes this cartridge what it was meant to be. There is a reason the 200 grain Federal Fusion is the only load for this that survived the test of time. Pretty much any 200 grain .338 spitzer is going make more power and keep that energy and velocity better than almost anything else out to 400 yards, that you could build off a .308 winchester cartridge. Plus you still get about a .250 sectional density. You could argue sectional density is not that important with this much mass and power, and an expanding bullet. But how many times have you heard, you want at least .250 sectional density for hunting big game? The 35’s can make more power but you are still dealing with the .308 cartridge case and powder capacity, and now you are also dealing with about a .2 ballistic coefficient. That makes the 358 Winchester about a 200 yard rifle before you really lose everything you gained with the bigger bore. The .338 Federal with the 200 grain slug could be a legit 300-400 yard gun. For sure inside 300 you can have good bullet performance and work with a 200 yard zero on big game. What got me interested in the .338 Federal again was comparing ballistics of 16-18” carbines. In a 16.5” barrel, the 338 Federal might could hang within 100-150 fps of a true magnum .338 cartridge at the same barrel length, with far less recoil and muzzle blast. Also the .338 Federal is very efficient. Look at Speer load data. reloadingdata.speer.com/downloads/speer/reloading-pdfs/rifle/338_Federal_200.pdf reloadingdata.speer.com/downloads/speer/reloading-pdfs/rifle/338_Ruger_Compact_Magnum_200.pdf With a 200 grain bullet in each, max loads with the .338 Federal are faster than starting loads with the .338 RCM using about 2 grains less powder. If they timed it right, they could have necked up the 6.5 Creedmore and AI it and called it the .338 creedmore. Or just stick to the .308 Win parent case, because it is the .338 bullet/bore that makes it so efficient. Or maybe they could have started with the .284 Win case. They would have sold the crap out of it. It is a truly efficient cartridge. But now we have the 8.6 blackout instead, based on a necked up and strangled down, over-spun 6.5 creedmore. Which is still awesome in the way the centrifugal force improves terminal ballistics of subsonic .338 slugs. The way I see it, for a hunting rifle the best way to go is either a 7mm or a .338. The 30 splits the difference for an all around gun. But i like the .338 better. I have to give credit to most of what I learned about this to the guys on the THF. They will steer you straight, and put you on the right path.
This will likely never be seen, but I would love to see a lead balloon episode on 375 winchester. With the straight wall hunting states, the advent of 350 legend and now 360 buckhammer, why has 375 winchester been relegated to the past?
The 338 Federal always seemed very similar to the 277 Wolverine in the thought process and application. Neck up the parent case to produce better terminal results. Just instead of the 308 case the 277 used a 5.56 case like 300 blackout.
6.8spc was the better “neck up” for the ar15 platform. Still an excellent round. 5.56 case capacity limits it to the 6mm(243) bullets for all around good velocity.
If you like 338 federal and 8.6blk check out the 375 raptor. Also, another lead balloon would be the 30TC which became the parent of the 6.5 creed and 6mm creed
In your cartridge comparisons, I would love to see the 30-06 vs .35 whelen. I hunt with both and have a soft spot for each but the .35 doesn't get nearly the attention it deserves.
Great segment. Please float more lead balloons. My son has/had an 85 Kimber Montana in 338Fed where he was young (age 10 or so). If memory serves, it had an 18" bbl, but it might have been 16". Great light rifle, recoil was not bad. He used 185gr Trophy Copper ammo and took elk, black bear, whitetail, mule deer, pronghorn, and a host of African plains game as well as stag, tahr, and chamois in New Zealand. Longest shot was an aoudad at 535. I can't remember anything requiring two shots, except a gemsbok in Namibia. Great cartridge. Really punched above its weight.
I was looking at the 338 Federal in 2020.. and noticed that Ruger made a special run of the 358 Winchesters in their American Predator rifles.. so I jumped on that instead 😊 The 358 Winchester is more than " THE BRUSH BUSTING 358 "! If you hunt deer and black bear from zero to 300 yards.. there's a lot of great cartridges to choose from! Basically anything from the 243 Winchester on up! That being said.. I love the entire 308 Winchester family of cartridges! But my favorite caliber is the 35! I've used the 350 Remington Magnum the 350 Legend and the 358 Winchester with similar results.. inside of 100 yards! The deer didn't know the difference between the three.. ALL the blood trails were similar! They looked like you walked with a bucket pouring blood out along the way! All shots were broadside heart and lung shots.. and the deer didn't get to far either 😊 Love my 358 Winchester ❤
I wanted one of these quite bad, but it's so hard to find one already. I ended up doing a .375 Ruger instead, which is a lot more recoil, but when reloading, I can load it down to 2800 and have a reasonable load with a 250 gr. You can buy AR-10 barrels and that's one I may still try.
Great Podcast guys, I genuinely believe that that short action .338's have place in light Carbine type on foot hunting applications. It would have been great to draw more of a comparison with the .338 RCM and also the .338 Marlin Express and why they went the direction they did. I have to agree that a Lever gun chambered in .356 Win is as cool as it gets, I know that Marlin and Winchester offered one for only a few years and then stopped production due to i think, "lack of popularity" really sad. Hey maybe with Ruger's acquisition of Marlin they may offer something interesting.
Every time i watch larger caliber videos...
"Psh, that round drops off at 800 yards" - Me, who only has access to 200 yard ranges within reasonable driving distance
I have a pretty obvious theory that all these industry guys obsess over over ultra long range because there is a small but spendy amount of shooters who are willing to constantly upgrade their gear to the latest and greatest. They straight up aren’t interested in the average shooter for who thinks 200-400y is the longest they will ever go. Primarily because they don’t represent dollar signs.
@@Alan.livingstonI disagree. I think these guys are true ballistic nerds (and we all probably are too since we listen to them), and it’s inevitable to push things farther and faster. It’s just like the space race - who can get there first? I’m fascinated by all of these, and I’m a standard caliber non reloader guy. I’d love to do some long range shooting - if I can get the time and money.
But I could be completely wrong too. 🤣
Kind of a no-brainer 338 verses 3:58 with the same case
Nice shout out to the poor .338-06; that always seemed like a fantastic round
Absolutely agree!
It really is
It is!
Definitely . I stumbled across one built by Iver Henricksen. One of Elmer Keith’s favorite gunsmiths. Look him
up. He was from the era of P.O. Ackley and the other great pioneers of gun building.
338/06 always seemed like the perfect bullet diameter for that case to me. Just almost had one built, but went with the 9.3x62 instead.
I absolutely love these lead balloon talks. Thanks for including them.
I absolutely love the 338 federal. I loved it so much that I actually bought a second one. Both after it was a dead cartridge. Both are Tikka T3X. Ryan: take a long look at the Barnes 160 grain ttsx and the performance you get from it. I believe you’ll love your new rifle.
I am so glad you finally did .338 Federal. I have a TIkka T3 in .338 Federal. I shoot a 185 grain Hornady GMX , and it is my primary hunting rifle. It anchors every animal it hits as long as I do my part. I love this cartridge.
The real question is .338 Federal vs .358 Winchester
Both kinda scarce but my vote is the Winchester round
338 - the bullet selection is far better
I have a 358 win. Factory ammo is scarce and expensive.
Both seem like excellent cartridges to reload!
.358 with in 300 yards east of Mississippi take over 308 and 338.
10-Minute Talk... 40 minutes later. Good episode, gents.
One of the Best and Most Sensible Cartridges Ever Made! 🥳
Agree. I really like my .338Fed. Hits *hard* and the recoil isn't bad.
Agreed.
Drops everything.
Great Podcast! I would love to see a podcast on the 358 Win.
Howbout .357 MAXimum for a lead balloon. One of my favorite sleeper cartridges when loaded single shot. Thanks for making such a great podcast!
That’s be fun. I think it was originally intended as a silhouette match round. There are Dan Wesson DA revolvers floating out there in the .357 Max, plus some Rugers (though I hear they had flame cutting problems), and a lot of people with a .357 Mag single shot rifle have thought about rechambering to the Max.
The .350 legend basically is the .357 maximum ballistically.
Smith is chambering a revolver in .350 legend now.
@@aaronjohnson8575but without the backwards compatibility with the 357mag and .38 special
That would be awesome if Smith did the 7 shot X frame in the 357 Max or 360 Buckhammer. I would definitely buy one!
@@mikelevandoski843 they should since the have the 350 legend.
I have a Ruger M77 in 338 federal and it's an absolute hammer on all game may very well be the best practical North America hunting round no one knows about 😅
40min worth of 10min talk haha. Boy, I love this show. would love to see an ep on 284win. cheers guys.
It is an absolutely excellent round. Very mild. Great bullet selection.
I always thought, a Remington 7600/760 Carbine in .338 Federal, would be a perfect central/northern Wisconsin deer and bear rifle. I have carried a 760 in 30-06 carbine for 40 years. I have thought of getting a 7600 and having it re-chambered or re-barreled in .338. federal.
A variation on that idea that excites me is a Winchester model 100 in .338 Fed. Maybe a Winchester model 88..
The ultimate resurrected lead balloon, the 284 Win!!! (And all of its variants used by F class shooter)
The current F class world champion shoots a 284 Winchester.
The 284 is certainly very underrated. I met a guy at a Mule Deer Foundation banquet that hunts with a 284 Winchester. He is getting near 280 Remington performance using 140 Partitions. He has used it to kill a handful of 170” plus mulie bucks and a several pronghorn bucks over 75” at distances over 350 yards. Again, underrated.
I’ve been working with the .284 for alittle over a year now. The new 150 Hornady Cx I’m pushing an average of 2875 fps. It’s definitely impressive. Next I’m gonna do a 25-284 so I can use the heavy 135 bergers and seat long for a long action. Should be darn near close to a 25-06 with better performance.
Just shocked it hasn’t resurrected in the hunting world with more factory options
I'm more of a fan of Ryan today. Very much appreciated that he validated and added to my views on the 338 Federal. 😊
I’ve had a 338 Fed since it was standardized and love it. It’s killed more White Tails than I can count and I think 9 Elk with Federal Premium 210 gr. Nosler Partions, all one shot kills and no tracking.
My led balloon is the 7 wsm. It is a good cartridge that just didn’t win the popularity contest but post good numbers on paper and works great on whitetail. The 35 wheelen in my reloading book shows to produce more energy than the 300 win mag or the 338 win mag at the muzzle and that’s impressive. As a short range large game cartridge it should be a more popular choice. IMHO
I used 7mmWSM on yukon Moose, bear, and elk in northern BC... great cartridge. It should be very popular.
@@Desertwolf426 moose hunting sounds like a hard hunt but totally worth it 👍
The Whelan is a great cartridge
The 7wsm is a wicked round, been dropping pigs ,camel, buff and scrub bulls with no drama at all, it should be way more popular, cheers Yogi 👍
I had one 7 WSM in a Winchester Model 70…it was excellent but difficult and expensive to find ammo for (I’m not a hand loader) so I sold it. I got a good price for it though because the guy that bought it had family that also shot that cartridge so he didn’t have as many of the negatives that I had to contend with.
I have a 338 federal and it is a great round that died because of the ammo shortage.
338 Federal also fits in an AR-10 platform.
Heavy hitter.
Great round for the ar10 platform.
Great show guys! Its been mentioned before, but I shoot and handload a .350 rem mag, and i would love to see a 6.5 rem mag/.350 rem mag show!
I second that! I have the 6.5 rem mag
As a levergun fan the 338 Marlin Express and 308 Marlin Express always intrigued me but they never took off either.
Same. Had Remington not imploded (and that was around the time they started going way down hill) maybe they would have had a chance. Love the concept and am still eyeing BLR's and Henry Long Ranger's, but as a Marlin lover I keep holding off, hoping that maybe Ruger will do something similar with Marlin. Though the last I checked they still weren't even making the 1894, so any helical/box mag design is probably a decade off (if ever)
I love the 338 Federal. I can see a good 3 rifle combo of 6.5 Creedmoor, 280 Ackley Improved
, and 338 Federal…..if I were smart. That said I own 223, 28 Sherman Magnum, 300 Sherman and 350 Legend…mostly in guns heavier than ideal.
I think the issue is we all want something new, unique and sexy! 338 Federal is none of that, but I’d rather carry a 7.5lb 338 Federal than an 8lb 338 win mag.
Also, we see ourselves as 800 yd deer slayers, but 338 Fed is a quite veristas 300yd rifle…..which most of my hunting shots are 300yds and under.
.338 Marlin Express was another lead balloon that deserved t better than it got. You should explore that cartridge, too.
Great series, made me want a .338 fed
It's recent but 224 Valkyrie is a definite Lead Balloon contender. More Lead Balloons!
6.8 Western looks to be going the same way :(
@@marcmoore4115 and probably the 6.8x51 for the military
@@tombearclaw hmmmmm I guess we'll have to see. That's been a wildcat for a long time, so it might just gain traction once the military actually starts using them.
Idk why they didn't just go with a 6.5 or 7mm tbh, but whatever... guess that's just them being weird lol. Imo 6 ARC was probably the best candidate for a lower-recoil option and 6.5 Creedmoor makes way more sense to me for their rifle, but hey - .27 cal is cool so I won't complain if it actually gains traction.
@@marcmoore4115yeah 7mm-08 could be awesome if given the hybrid case treatment. Imagine .280AI ballistics in an AR10 with a 160gr class of bullet traveling 2900fps from a 16-18" barrel.
A "DMR" size rifle truly capable of reaching 1000yds with excellent terminal performance. I constantly have to talk myself out of selling a kidney so I can buy a sig spear just to tinker with it.
@@Kross8761 im more of a bolt action guy, but damn that DOES sound good!
The .338 federal is my favorite, I'm saving to put a custom barrel on mine, with a 1 in 8 twist, because I love the 210gr Barnes, and want some extra rotational energy.
Worth noting, the 160gr .338 bullets are usually barnes too, so being copper, that speed will work with them to penetrate well.
Pulling data from the internet doesn't speak for each and every person. Reloading keeps me in quality accurate ammunition.
The 338 Federal and 338-06 A-Square cartridges are excellent. People that use these cartridges along with myself are in the know. Just because factory rifles and ammunition aren't being made doesn't mean the cartridges are dead.
I reload, so expensive or hard to find proper headstamp brass isn't a concern. I easily use 308 Winchester and 30-06 Springfield brass with bullets from 180, 200, 210 and 225 grains.
My Savage 16FCSS Weather Warrior in 338 Federal cartridge and Weatherby Mark V Ultra Lightweight in 338-06 A-Square cartridge are both outstanding performers.
I also have an original stamped Rochester, New Hampshire Thompson Center Encore 15 inch pistol barrel in 338 Federal. Thor's Hammer Handgun!
True big game hunters do not need to shoot 500 yards which in itself isn't hunting.
Yeah, I also own a Savage 110 Hunter in 280 Ackley Improved. Once again easily reloaded with 280 Remington or 270 Winchester brass. Fireforming or hydroforming processes.
Never will I own a 6.5 Creedmoor firearm. If I did get into a 6.5mm cartridge it would be the 260 Remington.
I feel like we need to see this in one of your cartridge wars videos. 308 vs 338 vs 30-06 vs 35 Whelen. I can't believe the 35 Whelen isn't in this conversation of necked-up awesomeness.
35 Whelen and .358win are both fantastic. Both used to get a lot of love, both are largely forgotten these days... Everybody thinks they need a 1000yd cartridge to hunt whitetail/mule deer these days, even though 95% of people never take a shot past 300, lol. The gun world is so far up it's own ass it doesn't know the meaning of practical... All about the hype, nothing more.
@@mfallen6894 right, I think if I was going to upsize a 308 i would skip the 338 and go right to 358. same for 30-06 kinda how its a crap shoot deciding between .270 and .284 if i was starting with 7mm and wanted to go smaller i'll skip the 270 and go 6.5 or 257
I think they just got a little stuck on the 338 diameter…they did do a whole talk on the 35 Whelen so it’s not that they forgot about it
These lead balloons are my favorite. Every time I walk away learning something new.
I have a lead balloon for you guys, the .308 Marlin.
I picked up a Browning A Bolt in 280 Remington for a song in the late 80'. That was my only bolt gun until COVID. The largest game taken was a huge Red Stag. Everything I shot died. During COVID, hand loading supplies were gone. The only factory ammo on the shelf in my area was 30-06. So I bought a Savage in 30-06. Everything still died. Since reloading supplies are back, I'm back to my 280 Remington.
Love the 280!
Love my 338-06. Great cartridge out to 300 yds
The main problem with the 338 federal is that is does nothing that the 8x57 mauser hasn’t done for 100 years
That's why I passed on the 338 Federal.
338 Fed in a Sako grey wolf I mean it’s basically the hammer of Thor 😂😂 but honestly I do love the cartridge and the rifle. Re loading to shoots amazingly well with the hornady leverevolution powder!!!
Woodleigh made specific projectiles for .338 Federal
Sadly a fire destroyed the facility In Australia.
But they are coming back. I have a Kimber Montana in .338 Fed and a Sako Grizzly also love them.
I appreciate the shout out for 35 Whelen! Solid performer for me.
I really enjoy my 338 Federal custom build I done many years ago! It’s my go to for big bears on bait and spot and stock in Southeast Alaska!!
Federal did a great job, did what everyone was asking for then , few came out and bought it..??? I know a lot of everyday hunters, it is their only rifle, the 358 Win. is a good mention as well. 35 Whelen and 30-06 same issue, a great way to have a larger heavier bullet, in the same action and barrel length, with less powder than a mag. and still get great performance. Great Show.
I was gonna say that the 30-06 is a cartridge where it makes sense to neck up. The 338-06 and 35 Whelen are fabulous power house cartridges l. The 338-06 is very effecient and nips at the heels of the 338 Win Mag.
As far as why someone needs a more terminally effective cartridge than a 308 or 30-06. It depends on what you primarily hunt. The 308 and 30-06 are good choices for people who primarily hunt deer with an occasional Elk or Moose thrown in. If you live in an area where you are constantly hunting Elk, Moose, or big bears a 33, 35, or 37 caliber makes a lot of sense
I adore the .338fed. Was a fairly early adopter & bought into the .480 Ruger around the same time. Both are criminally underrated cartridges that exemplify just how important marketing really is. It doesn't matter how good a cartridge is if the marketing team doesn't flood the shooting world with outlandish claims of it being the best cartridge for every application, ever.
At least I still see .480 factory ammo every blue moon for about $90 a box (that I don't buy; now that Ruger owns Marlin they NEED to chamber the 1894 in .480 so that it has a shot of coming back) But I haven't seen a box of factory .338fed in 5+ years. Even Buffalo Bore gives it no support, and you can generally find really niche cartridges from them (though that's usually handgun, but still...) and it should be a round that's in their wheelhouse. I keep hoping 8.6blackout is going to take-off, but it still has zero support from major players from what I can tell. Sucks having to handload if you want a .338 rifle bullet (unless you want to pay $4+ a round for a magnum)
I just checked ammo seek and they have two listed at $6 a shot. As much as I love the 338 Fed, no way.
@@rockstar49858 I just checked ammoseek myself thinking you were surely mixing up 338fed with 338 Lapua or Normal Mag, but no: $5.75 & $6 for 338 fed! That's just criminal for a .308 necked-up to .338in...
327 Federal Magnum. Good on paper, but just odd enough that it never really took off.
Such a great cartridge that is basically nonexistant. Guns like the LCR in .327 fedmag are super appealing but theres just no ammo out there for it.
There's the one. Except, too bad this show is only about bolt-guns.
@@boatratliterally the last "lead balloon" talk was about .444 marlin, they talk about all kinds of cartridges. Bolt guns are kind of their wheelhouse (Ryan especially) but they talk about many different firearms types.
There was plenty of 327 Federal ammo before the pandemic. I have some stockpiled for my Charter Arms Patriot 2.5” carry gun. For those who don’t know six shots hotter than any 38 special or 9mm. Only about 10% less than 357 Magnum.
@@davewinter2688the problem is ammo availability now…I was looking at it as an excellent carry option for my wife but there’s such a small amount of ammo available and what is available isn’t very appealing…like low recoil options, which neuters performance.
Love the .338 Federal especially out of the AR10 platform
I was waiting for them to mention it in the AR-10. DPMS offered factory rifles in it.
What is yours and how is it set up?
Savage MSR 18" barrel with a Leupold VX-3HD 3.5-10X50@@LRRPFco52
Listen up people.
Adult male speaking!
MB doesn't want to admit that his lightweight 300 WSM is what actually injured his shoulder 😂
Or worse yet... the 6.5 Manbun brought this strapping young man to his knees.
@@atomicwedgie8176 don't be hating on the prom king of rifle cartridges!
LOL!...I will never admit you are right! I will also not say you are wrong. :)
Mark B.
LOL! The ultimate insult! Love it!
Mark B. @@atomicwedgie8176
.260 Rem
Love the content… I picked a 358win, an older leaden balloon, over the 338fed about when the 338 came out. With hand loads (of course) I get 100fps greater velocity with a 200gr pill in the 358 than with a 180gr in 308!! 358 has devastating performance on moose and large black bears (so does the 308 / 180 combo). But I just love the unloved cartridge.
The 358 winis a great moose gun and better with heaver bullets than the 338 fed
I shot a Tikka .338 Federal for years as my primary deer gun, always great performance on game. Regret selling it. I still don't know why i did.
Yes keep the lead balloon podcasts coming
An enjoyable conversation. A conundrum regarding the 338 Federal was that hunters, shooters, and writers alike have spent decades debating the merits of the 30-06 Springfield vs. the 308 Winchester, then comes along a cartridge that effectively resolves the debate (producing 30-06 velocity and trajectory to 300-yards out of a short action with all other variables equal) and yet the response was crickets. I suppose we all enjoy discussing such attributes as much, if not more, than using such well-engineered tools.
Given that it performs well out of a shorter barrel length, the ~9% larger frontal diameter compared to 0.308" projectiles, and the moderate recoil I've homed in the 338 Federal as my preferred all-around eastern US cartridge. At least, that's my position on the debate : )
I've had a 338 Federal Sako 85 since about 2009 and it's my go to hunting rifle for anything inside 300 yards. It bests the 7mm Rem Mag for short to medium range but in a shorter action and barrel. As Ryan said in the video, you just simply take 308 brass and run it through the die and that's it, it's now 338 Federal. If you don't reload it's not easy to find ammo but there are some companies that still manufacture it. I can't speak for any 338 rifles other than my Sako, but with handloads I'm easily getting under 1/2 inch groups with 210 gr TTSX and IMR 8208 XBR powder loaded to the specs in the reloading manual. I can't say enough good things about the cartridge for reasonable hunting distances. I think the trend of everyone wanting to take shots on game past 600 yards is unethical and irresponsible for all but the best and most practiced shooters.
I'm a french hunter and i've been shooting more than 50 game from roe deer size (around 20- 30 Kg game) up to red deer size (200kg). Most of them only ran 20meters max considering that bullet placement is not always perfect on driven hunt. Shooting distances were in average between 50 to 150 meters. I'm so happy with that cartridge that i have now 4 rifles. The last one is a new straightpull rifle made by Stainsteel (german new mfg). With that one, out of a 20 inch barrel , i'm getting 870m/s speed with 165 grains copper bullet. I've been shooting multiple calibers (7x64mauser, 7rm, 308, 300wsm), none of them were that efficient compared to 338fed in driven hunt .
Not a lead balloon.
A 227 grainer .338 Federal @ 650 b.c. is not an anchor.
Basically 8mm Mauser....but better...and shorter.
2425 fps. Transonic at 1400 yards.
Lead balloon? Sure. But so is 6.5 Creedmoor in 130gr Federal Terminal Ascent loading then..
The 130gr is trans at 1300 yards and has FAR less tissue displacement.
Don't judge me.
Forgot to mention the BLR was factory-chambered in 338 Fed. If you get the takedown version, you can send it back to Browning and their custom shop will make/headspace additional barrels for your action and you can handload 243 Win, 260 Rem, 7mm-08, 308 Win & 338 Fed all using the same brass and shooting them from the same rifle with different scoped barrels.
I'd like to hear Ryan's opinion on the 375 Winchester and the 307 Winchester for the lead balloon talks
I have the Marlin in 375 win ,it drops deer quick.
I'm glad you guys mentioned the 8.6 Blackout. For those just looking for suppressed 338s, take a look at the 338 Razorback, 10mm brass and fits in the AR15 platform! 🎉
375 Winchester, 280 Remington, & as someone mentioned, 358 Winchester. My candidates.
🤔 As a Timber/Deep Woods Elk Rifle Cartridge (Moose, Bear, and Bison at Close Range Too) in a light weight and handy rifle package (20" barrel), I could think of Nothing Better! 🥇 I Still Want One! 😂
More lead balloons!!! Seriously, I’ve been interested in the .338 Federal for a while, loved you guys covering this
.338 fed didn't make it but....358 win did. moderately did. Both amazing calibers but Ron Spomer shows that the .338 is actually balistically better in all aspects than the .308 and .358 Anyone have any ideas?
I have this idea in my head that a cartridge with a trajectory similar to .30-06 or 7m-08 (aka 7mm Mauser) are right in the middle of the range of large game cartridges. Narrower bullet respective to powder capacity leans toward long range shooter. Larger bullet leads to more of a thumper.
.308 already leans toward thumper, and it’s cheap and readily available. Why go bigger?
.308 is already a bit of a thumper.
Lead balloon suggestions: 8mm Rem Mag, 325 WSM, 222 Rem Mag, 6.5 Rem Mag.
I don't think 338 Federal will ever come into the mainstream because cartridges like 350 legend and 360 buckhammer are filling the "big bullet, close range" niche pretty well. It's a tinkerer's round, for someone who doesn't want to shoot something as pedestrian as 308 Winchester.
Do more lead balloons. 6.8 western May make that list. I enjoy the 338 Federal and may also go custom.
35 Whelen is kinda a led balloon bounce back, certainly has it's following, but with new hunting regs it has a good comeback story
I feel like the majority of us shooters/hunters, myself included, get lost in the woods of what different cartridges CAN do, rather than focusing on what we really need from a cartridge in our personal applications.
Easy now, we can't be using logic and common sense in the gun world! If you're not on the hype train and claiming you take elk at 1600yd with your [insert brand new cartridge here] are you even really a hunter/shooter? Xd
Just ruduce the 338 fed velocoty by 500fps, and call it 8.6 blackout and pretend thats somehow better
If we don’t talk about the .284 Winchester as the ultimate led balloon I’ll be devastated! Also 25 wssm might be cool when considering the new high bc bullets
There's a .25 Sherman Short Tactical. Very similar to a .25 PRC. Can run 135gr bullets at 3200fps. Certainly one of the flattest shooting cartridges. Where I am at ~1600m elevation, it's only 5.3MIL to 914m (1000yds), 6.1 MIL to 1000m (1093yds). Also only 1.1 MIL windage in a 10mph crosswind. For reference, the 6mm Creed with a 115gr Nosler at 2900fps is 6.9 MIL to 1000yds, 7.9 MIL to 1000m and 1.5 MIL at 10mph wind... insane ballistics from that .25. Just a shame there are no .25 cal 135gr hunting bullets.
I have 2 bags of .25 WSSM brass, no rifle. Just trying to decide about whether to go 40° shoulder or not.
@@LRRPFco52 what type of velocity you looking at with that?
I guess feeding would be worse with a 40° shoulder? Especially on such a short, stubby case. I think bringing the shoulder forward and making them more aggressive could be pretty cool though. Siunds like a fun little cartridge. I really want to build a .25 GT one day. Seems like such an awesome cartridge, both for target shooting, especially PRS, but also for hunting smaller game like Springbok/Pronghorn.
@@marcmoore4115 25 GT is probably the most practical, efficient, and capable manifestation of the Quarterbore. I've been looking at that too. There's a guy cleaning clocks with it now in PRS/NRL.
I always have felt 130gr is where it's at for the 6.5-08 cartridges, but just wish the BCs were in the 142-147gr 6.5mm realm. Bam, 131gr Blackjack and then 135gr Berger in .257".
@@LRRPFco52 now also the 134gr Hornady ELD-M. Very cool to see them jump on board! BC isn't quite as good as the Berger 135gr and as far as I know, I think Blackjack closed down.
135gr Berger has a .33 G7 BC, 6mm tops out at .312 with the Nosler RDF, the first .264 bullet that beats the 135gr Berger is the 140gr Nosler RDF, 144gr Berger and 147gr ELD-M... absolutely awesome performance from them.
I'll probably start off with a 6mm Creed though, as I only have a .308 lol. It'll probably be my next rifle.
A few years ago I was looking at the 338 federal
I found a 338/06 Barrel on Brownells
Never looked back
I bought 2 Sako rifles in .338 Federal for my 2 young sons. I did so mainly because I love Sako rifles, and these 2 sat in the gun store for years without being sold. Got a good deal to take them off their hands, and we have been very pleased with how they shoot and perform! Manageable recoil for a young hunter with plenty of knockdown power. I'm glad to hear people trying to keep it alive.
I would love to have a compact 338 federal with open sights. A lot of my hunting is inside 100 yards and occasionally dealing with angry critters.
I just got the Savage Hog Hunter, its a great lil rifle for not a lot of money. Recoil is mild with the heavy barrel and muzzle break.
This episode reminds me of another lead balloon, the 338 RCM 😢 I never understood what happened there.
Speaking of European cartriges...9.3x62
350 Remington Magnum
8mm Remington Magnum
And all of the Remington Ultra Magnums. Great show and keep the lead balloon episodes coming.
I have a .356 Winchester in a Marlin lever gun. I love the chambering and the rifle.
Lead Balloon suggestion- Sharps 25X45
Ahh, the cartridge to replace the .223 Rem/5.56. It'll totally take off..... 😂
I love my 338federal it hammers elk out to 500 yards for me it's a sweetheart of a round.
I don't mean to be annoying... but can you please do a 10 minute talk on the 257 Weatherby? Thanks!
How about a fast twist .338 federal with a heavy bullet if the damage is so great in the 8.6 fast twist.
Great one. Bring on .35 Rem talk!
I do love my old .35 Rem
Have a browning BLR lightweight takedown in 338 Fed
I was really interested in building a 338 Federal upper for my AR but I didn't for one important reason you forgot to mention: terminal performance of .338 caliber bullets. Most. 338 caliber bullets are created for much higher velocity cartridges, and have much higher fps requirements for terminal performance than the 338 Federal can maintain for long. Once I realized that the realistic range of the round is about 400 yards to get desired terminal performance, I decided it wasn't worth it. Hopefully someday the round can be resurrected and someone will make 338 Federal specific bullets.
I haven’t tried them, but there is an Australian bullet maker that makes them specifically for the 338 Fed.
Next lead balloon has to be 357 maximum.
My personal lead Baloon is my model 94 timber in 450 marlin.
I have always wanted a .338 Federal, from the beginning of that cartridge. I just completely geeked out on the interwebs over the past couple of days reading about it, and asking questions in the webs. The 200 grain Speer hot cor might be the bullet that makes this cartridge what it was meant to be. There is a reason the 200 grain Federal Fusion is the only load for this that survived the test of time.
Pretty much any 200 grain .338 spitzer is going make more power and keep that energy and velocity better than almost anything else out to 400 yards, that you could build off a .308 winchester cartridge. Plus you still get about a .250 sectional density. You could argue sectional density is not that important with this much mass and power, and an expanding bullet. But how many times have you heard, you want at least .250 sectional density for hunting big game?
The 35’s can make more power but you are still dealing with the .308 cartridge case and powder capacity, and now you are also dealing with about a .2 ballistic coefficient. That makes the 358 Winchester about a 200 yard rifle before you really lose everything you gained with the bigger bore.
The .338 Federal with the 200 grain slug could be a legit 300-400 yard gun. For sure inside 300 you can have good bullet performance and work with a 200 yard zero on big game.
What got me interested in the .338 Federal again was comparing ballistics of 16-18” carbines. In a 16.5” barrel, the 338 Federal might could hang within 100-150 fps of a true magnum .338 cartridge at the same barrel length, with far less recoil and muzzle blast.
Also the .338 Federal is very efficient. Look at Speer load data.
reloadingdata.speer.com/downloads/speer/reloading-pdfs/rifle/338_Federal_200.pdf
reloadingdata.speer.com/downloads/speer/reloading-pdfs/rifle/338_Ruger_Compact_Magnum_200.pdf
With a 200 grain bullet in each, max loads with the .338 Federal are faster than starting loads with the .338 RCM using about 2 grains less powder.
If they timed it right, they could have necked up the 6.5 Creedmore and AI it and called it the .338 creedmore. Or just stick to the .308 Win parent case, because it is the .338 bullet/bore that makes it so efficient. Or maybe they could have started with the .284 Win case. They would have sold the crap out of it. It is a truly efficient cartridge. But now we have the 8.6 blackout instead, based on a necked up and strangled down, over-spun 6.5 creedmore. Which is still awesome in the way the centrifugal force improves terminal ballistics of subsonic .338 slugs.
The way I see it, for a hunting rifle the best way to go is either a 7mm or a .338. The 30 splits the difference for an all around gun. But i like the .338 better.
I have to give credit to most of what I learned about this to the guys on the THF. They will steer you straight, and put you on the right path.
the .338 marlin coming out right after it added confusion to both chamberings and didn't help either as well.
Great episode guys, enjoyed this one! Another lead balloon to look at 307 winchester...
Please do a podcast on the 376 steyr. Especially great in the Steyr scout rifle.
This will likely never be seen, but I would love to see a lead balloon episode on 375 winchester. With the straight wall hunting states, the advent of 350 legend and now 360 buckhammer, why has 375 winchester been relegated to the past?
.338 fed is actually my current build. Interesting to see this while im in the midst of it.
How did you go?
Please do an episode on the Ruger no.1 action!
Amazing content as always!
The 338 Federal always seemed very similar to the 277 Wolverine in the thought process and application. Neck up the parent case to produce better terminal results. Just instead of the 308 case the 277 used a 5.56 case like 300 blackout.
6.8spc was the better “neck up” for the ar15 platform. Still an excellent round. 5.56 case capacity limits it to the 6mm(243) bullets for all around good velocity.
If you like 338 federal and 8.6blk check out the 375 raptor. Also, another lead balloon would be the 30TC which became the parent of the 6.5 creed and 6mm creed
In your cartridge comparisons, I would love to see the 30-06 vs .35 whelen. I hunt with both and have a soft spot for each but the .35 doesn't get nearly the attention it deserves.
338 rpm basically killed the potential return of 338 fed
You are correct, I got tired of trying to find a 338 federal, and finally gave up and got a 338 rpm this summer.
One lead balloon that came back is .17 Mach 2
And... Iowa legislature dropped the straight wall requirement for deer rifles in 2001. Anything .35-.50 cal. is good to go.
Great segment. Please float more lead balloons. My son has/had an 85 Kimber Montana in 338Fed where he was young (age 10 or so). If memory serves, it had an 18" bbl, but it might have been 16". Great light rifle, recoil was not bad. He used 185gr Trophy Copper ammo and took elk, black bear, whitetail, mule deer, pronghorn, and a host of African plains game as well as stag, tahr, and chamois in New Zealand. Longest shot was an aoudad at 535. I can't remember anything requiring two shots, except a gemsbok in Namibia. Great cartridge. Really punched above its weight.
7-30 Waters potential lead balloon.
I was looking at the 338 Federal in 2020.. and noticed that Ruger made a special run of the 358 Winchesters in their American Predator rifles.. so I jumped on that instead 😊
The 358 Winchester is more than " THE BRUSH BUSTING 358 "!
If you hunt deer and black bear from zero to 300 yards.. there's a lot of great cartridges to choose from! Basically anything from the 243 Winchester on up!
That being said.. I love the entire 308 Winchester family of cartridges! But my favorite caliber is the 35!
I've used the 350 Remington Magnum the 350 Legend and the 358 Winchester with similar results.. inside of 100 yards!
The deer didn't know the difference between the three.. ALL the blood trails were similar! They looked like you walked with a bucket pouring blood out along the way! All shots were broadside heart and lung shots.. and the deer didn't get to far either 😊
Love my 358 Winchester ❤
I wanted one of these quite bad, but it's so hard to find one already. I ended up doing a .375 Ruger instead, which is a lot more recoil, but when reloading, I can load it down to 2800 and have a reasonable load with a 250 gr. You can buy AR-10 barrels and that's one I may still try.
Great Podcast guys, I genuinely believe that that short action .338's have place in light Carbine type on foot hunting applications. It would have been great to draw more of a comparison with the .338 RCM and also the .338 Marlin Express and why they went the direction they did. I have to agree that a Lever gun chambered in .356 Win is as cool as it gets, I know that Marlin and Winchester offered one for only a few years and then stopped production due to i think, "lack of popularity" really sad. Hey maybe with Ruger's acquisition of Marlin they may offer something interesting.