Great episode. I’ve had and used a 325WSM for years guiding in BC. It’s an awesome cartridge. I’ve killed everything Grizzly, Moose, Elk, Mountain Goats and Sheep, many Deer, Wolves and coyotes. Pretty much everything in BC. Was originally looking at a 338WM but it was too long for me. I’m a handloader and have lots of rounds and components. Should be set to shoot my 325 for as long as I need to. Peace dudes, keep up the good work.
Another northern bc guy here . I run a 35 Whelen with 225 accubonds up here and have killed elk , deer and bears so far , I just picked up a 325wsm in a pistol grip browning blr . I’m excited to try it on game
The problem with 8mm cartridges is that Americans don't understand ballistics. And for the longest time it was very hard to find good US 8mm bullets. The 8mm Mauser--one of the all time great cartridges--was underloaded by US ammo companies for years because Americans don't understand ballistics. So Americans never appreciated the 8mm bore diameter.
Thanks for the review. I've been waiting for this review for a long time. I have a .325 WSM and it's dead on. From Elk to mule deer to whitetails to black bears, it does it all. I hope this cartridge never dies. 200 grains always does the job. I have many Browning Rifles from .243, .308, 6.8 Western but the .325 WSM is my favorite.
This could be a great series but it would have been even better if you had the rounds on the table for a physical comparison, maybe for the next episode? Cheers
Love this cartridge. I took my first (and only) bull elk with this cartridge, and my first (and only) desert bighorn sheep with this cartridge. The sheep was taken at 510 yards. The Browning X-Bolt that I shoot this in, is one of my most accurate hunting rifles. Load it heavy and it's a .338 WM. Load it lighter, and it's a .30-06.
My uncle in law has a browning a-bolt in 325 wsm for when he goes elk hunting. He loves the thing and swears by the cartridge. Knowing him, its probably loaded with swift sciroccos. They tend to be his bullet of choice. Last I talked to him about building a rifle, he suggested I build a 6.5 prc so he can take me on an elk hunt with him. I think, He has come to the realization that critters of all sizes really don’t need the amount of power the old school bullets required.
I hope this series continues!! I'd love to hear you guys talk about the smallest of the big bores the 375 Winchester centerfire Magnum, could have been a very successful straight walled cartridge only to die out within a few years of its existence.
I bought a .325 WSM Browning X-Bolt at Gander Mountain in DeForest, WI when they went out of business. I can resize .300 WSM brass and there are plenty of 8mm options for bullet availability due to the unpopular diameter. It is as close to benchrest accurate I’ve found with Varget powder and Nosler AB’s. I took an elk with it and it performed like a 338 WM. I personally don’t care how popular a cartridge is. I care about terminal performance. Absolutely love this cartridge/ rifle combination. Never getting rid of it.
And me waiting for this episode to talk about .284 / 7mm cartridges. Definitely would have been the best episode. No problem thanks for everything Vortex.
If you don’t have a WSM already…. And you have the time and money to find the decent .323 components then it’s a good choice. Otherwise a person could be a one gun hunter with a 300WSM and a reloading press.
In the process of building a 375 WSM, necking up 325 WSM. Should run a 250 CX @ 2550, 3500 ft-lbs. 4" Max Trajectory Height, 236 Yd zero, 285 MPBR, 6" drop at 300 yds, 24" drop at 400 yds. Elk Thumper. Great job guys.
You should see better performance than that ... ive built a couple one on a browning lever gun. My favorite wsm variant is the 358 wsm or 35 sanbar. It pushes a 250 gr partition @ 2850 fps with 4500 fpe at the muzzle . It is the twin of the 358 norma mag in every aspect. Flatter than a 30-06 and still has 2500 fpe past 500 yrds.
160 Gr .375 RCM with a German 8mm extracted SMK 130gr tungsten core enveloped in brass would go through level 4 @ 300y with a 16 inch KAC SR25. Zero recoil.
300 Savage….does everything you talked about. 150-180 factory, 200 hand loads , still the best North American cartridge for medium ranges. 308 while the child of the 300 SAVAGE is still a beast on short actions…recoil on both, minimal
358win and 338fed should be an episode. I stilll don't understand why these 308 case family rounds didn't become more popular? 307 and 356 fall into that same family and should have been more appreciated. 7-30 Waters is a great but forgotten round, as a single shot or lever action round it is one of the best!
Just bought a Savage Bear Hunter in .325 WSM. Stainless, fluted barrel, integrated brake. Shooting 220gr at 2900fps. G1.521BC. I'm happy with it. Approx 2000ft/lbs at 500 yards.
I have a 325 WSM in Winchester M70 feather weight. It performs well, and I don’t think it’s recoil too bad. I haven’t fired it in years because of poor ammunition supply. I like it, but it’s gone the way of the dodo. Thanks for your show.
Lots of bullets out there . Barns and nosler being the best for hunting imo . if you owned a 325 vs the 300 you’d be singing it’s praises . Bigger frontal diameter matters and should be mentioned . I’ve owned both the 300wsm and the 325. The 325 just hits things different. Both are great cartridges but me being in g-bear country I’ll take the 325 anyway
450 Marlin would be a great one, by the time it was released, 45-70(thanks to higher case capacity) was being handloaded in leverguns to higher velocities/energies than it. 450 Marlin was basically solving a problem no one had, even at the time.
There are too many cartridges on each side of the 325 WSM . As an original 323fan. If your hand loading, the 325 really didn't do much more than 8mm Mauser . But it still all comes down to what you want and what you think is viable for your situation.😊
An excellent cartridge that just suffered in comparison to the 300 SAUM and 300 WSM cartridges by being slightly slower. Look at cartridge comparison articles... they always point this out. The 300 RSM used the a smaller diameter case (0.532" dia vs 0.550 and 0.555") and, since all three cartridges were designed to fit into Remington short actions (max 8.26" OAL) it had slightly less case capacity for propellant. I think that the main reason for the 300 WSM becoming dominant was that it had the highest velocity, if only by a little. Ironically, the standard SAAMI chamber for the WSM series has no section of tight freebore (leade) to help align the bullet, making it more difficult to get good accuracy. 300 WSM's custom designed for accuracy add in a section of freebore, BTW. All of these cartridges were limited to bullets with relatively short ogives and mediocre BC's, at least in traditional short actions and factory ammo. FWIW, after a number of years, when the next group of short-magnum cartridges came about , the 6.5 PRC and 6.8 Western changed the definition of "short action" to 2.955" to allow bullets with longer ogives and higher BC's. It was just marketing, since as mentioned in a couple of Hornady podcasts, there really were too long for most "short action rifles" available at the time.
@@jfess1911 Thanks for the WSM lead info. Explains why I had such trouble getting good groups out of mine. It only like 2 bullet and powder combos that I can find.
I like this series concept. There's so many cartridges that were released and died on the vine for one reason or other; 338 Fed (a favourite of mine) comes to mind
I have a browning x bolt in 325 wsm. Amazing killing machine elk and moose cartridge at 400-600 yards. It’s deadly I have taken many elk in Colorado shooting across mountains/ridges 1 shot kills that don’t run I have had my 300 wsm and 300 win mag. But the 8 mm bullet just kills quick. It dumps energy and turns Harry and lungs into soup and drops game quick. Wish it was more available. 338 win mag power and carries like a carbine rifle all day. LOVE mine
I am a big fan on the 300 wsm. Im also really liking the 35 whelen. How about a wsm case necked out to .358 and made readily available. Now thats something i think would take off
I like that idea. I might have to try and wildcat that one. i love the 358win but wish i could have a little more and in iowa we can deer hunt with necked cartridge over .35 and 35 whelen is a great but if its going to be hard to find i might as well try and make a short action option
@@timbjork2098 i believe it has been done . Would just be cool if it was readily available. I think it would be a hit with alot of north americans that elk hunt in grizzly country.
I have to say this cartridge was victim of timing. Another great example is the 30 AR Remington. If the 30 AR we’re reintroduced today it would be a runaway freight train. The Ruger short magnums today would be a hit because the were designed for 20” barrels. Some of them were threaded for muzzle brakes, can you say suppressor?
Ive been looking for a 325 WSM Since i first shot one way back when it came out. Love this cartridge. It and the 270 WSM are faves out of the series. My next fave? The 25 WSSM 😉
I can say from personal observation the 325 WSM is an absolute hammer on game. Despite its ballistics shortcomings, which I am very familiar with as a long distance shooter it is an awesome round to hunt with if you are shooting within reasonable shooting distances.
A guy in my elk camp loads his 325 wsm with 220 grain woodleighs at 2900fps. It flat crushes elk. He calls it his light 8mm. His heavy is a long throated 8mm rem mag.
I bought a Remington 700 BDL in 8mm mag when it came out never caught on same thing as the 325wsm the 8mm mags problem was when it came out there wasn't any good bullets that would stand up to that velocity. Today we have good bullets for it now. It's a great cartridge also just never caught on.
The WSM's were designed just before laser rangefinders became widespread. Short-mags were really considered flat-shooting 500-yard max cartridges. The 325 WSM more of a 300-yard cartridge. They generally used relatively light bullets to get high velocities. Before many hunters had good range finders, a flat trajectory was needed to minimize range-estimation errors. Long-range cartridges as we think of them today, mainly became popular after 2010. Most early 300 WSM loads, for example were around 150 grains. The 325 often shot 180grains.
@@kalen4246 I am saying how it was viewed at the time. Look up some of the articles from when it came out.. The main original loading was 180 grain. It was marketed as a "bigger game", cartridge that shot very flat out to 300 yards. That was when the whole goal was to point and shoot without worrying about bullet drop. The .323 bullets make good use of the case capacity and using today's bullets is capable of excellent performance. Luckily, the spec is 1:10" twist which permits fairly long bullets. Like the other WSM's, using a standard action and loading long really helps.
I think you’re probably correct. I have a 270wsm, and as a 350 yard and in type of hunter, it’s perfect. Also I use copper bullets, so maximizing velocity is important. The WSMs are great, and a 300 might just be in my future.
You guys read my mind. I stumbled upon this cartridge a week or so ago in my reloading manual and after checking it out, I was shocked I haven't heard more about it. Per Lyman's 51st Reloading Manual, the fastest 325 WSM 220 grain loading hits 2790, while the fastest 225 grain loading for the 338 win mag is 2769 (no 220 grain loadings listed). Nearly 338 win mag performance out of a short action rifle, with about 10% less recoil? Wow.
American ammo companies download the 8mm Mauser. So Hornady could load up the cartridge with a 200 grain Accubond at 2600 fps. They could call it the ".325 TRC". All the silly hipsters who like the 6.5 PRC and 7mm PRC would love the sound of the .325 TRC and it would take off. By the way .325 TRC stands for Third Reich Cartridge.
1939 8mm bullets were .579 b.c. 198gr @ 3100fps would be trans @ 1600y. .325 WSM is a Stacey round. .325 WSM mangles 6.5 Creedmoor and 6.5 PRC. Fight me.
I like the idea of a bigger diameter bullet on a WSM. Something like a 338 or 358. Talk about a 300 yard thumper ! Can you imagine a 225gr 0.358" Nosler partition or accubond 225gr @ 2750-2800. Chambered in something like a Tikka T3X or a Kimber. 7lbs loaded with scope. That's big bear capable... It's like what the 350 rem mag Should have been... It's the 350 rem mag or 35 Whelen plus 150fps-200fps.
When i was looking for a rifle for Canadian moose back in the 00's, i briefly flirted with the 325 wsm before settling on a 300 RUM. No regrets, but I've always had a bit of a fondness for the 325. Great podcast, I'll take all the lead balloons you got.
I feel like a .358 WSM would have made a heck of a lot more sense. Not so close to the .30 cal as to be redundant or overlapping, not a .338 that is handicapped by requiring short light bullets compared to the big 338s. A flat shooting hard hitting thumpy hunting cartridge for “real world hunting” out to 400 or so with 200-250 grain bullets that aren’t trying to compete with high bc 30 cals but hits stupid hard at ordinary hunting ranges. There are a decent selection to bullets of bullets in the 200-250 grain range that aren’t particularly long to worry about mag length. I had a .358 Norma for a season of life. I’m biased 🤣
I have a .325wsm. Found an unfired Xbolt Stainless Stalker about 5yrs ago. I have put only 20rounds through it, of the Win Exped 200gr CT ammo. The last shot it fired killed a young bull moose at 162yards. Moose walked 25yards and fell over. Bullet was recovered on the opposite side, stuck into the hide. I have 6 full boxes of ammo for it. They were $78/box (CAD)at the time, now they’re usually $110 if I can find them lol.
I like this round so much, I just re-barreled a Montana 1999, but have to admit that I've only used it in years past in Alaska for moose. It and the 338 RCM are both about perfect for a handy rifle, especially for float trips.
Only advantage I could see is the availability of certain types of bullets. Are there 325 bullets built for big dangerous game? (Solids or something?) Are they better for bear/moose? I doubt there is but that’s all I can think of.
You guys never mention the .338 RUM as a comparison. It is, in my opinion, the best of the RUM cartridges. It produces the same ballistics as the 338 Lapua with less powder, in a normal magnum length action. The genius engineer Jim Borden was a proponent of the cartridge instead of the 338 Lapua. With handloads, I am pushing a 250gr bullet right at 3100 fps. Frontal diameter makes a huge difference on game! It and the 325 wsm were released just a few years apart from each other. My 338 RUM rifle with a good muzzle break on it recoils comparably or less than a 300 win mag. I own(ed) 2 wsm cartidges. I still own a 270 wsm, in my opinion the best of them, and in my opinion better than the 6.8 Western.......yes I've studied the numbers. I traded my 325 wsm back to the original owner, because I couldn't find ammo/components for it. It was a lovely shooting/performing rifle. I just recently (about 3 weeks ago) bought 270 wsm ammunition at my local sporting goods store. I think it stays around a while.
Actually Briefly the 325 did do go good.A certain lawsuit on patent infriengement n along with the New Haven Winchester Closeing.Didnt help it or the others either. As for bullets due to the 325 AB Etip SST GMX TTSX It was n is my Favortie of the WSMs
I have the 325 WSM in. Browning Xbolt. I absolutely love this cartridge. Very very efficient, it likes two bullets more than any other, the Nosler Accubond and the Barnes TSX, both 200gr and both over RL17. I can’t quite reach the book numbers for the Accubond without a compressed load which I prefer to avoid. The TSX reaches the book MV easily. That issue points out the isdue with the chamber/cartridge design that handicaps it. The throat of factory rifles/standard chamber design prevented bullets in the 200 gr and 225 grn weights from being seated out far enough to not intrude into the case capacity. Issues that later cartridge designs from Creedmore and PRC which allow heavy for caliber bullets to be used without sacrificing case capacity. The reporting at the time was that they couldn’t keep it in a short action and give it the design the throat length it needed - which was supposedly also a reason why the 338 test cartridge was dropped. Despite what some writers have written, the recoil is mild IMO. I literally could discern very little difference between the 325 in the Xbolt SS Stalker from my Remington 270 BDL. That mild recoil easily makes the 325 a true all rounder for every animal in North America and African plains game. The only real drawback currently is Norma is the only brass still readily available.
I can't help but think that the reason why 8mm calibers have never taken off in the US is because your Grandfather and Great Grandfather were getting shot by the 8mm Mouser in World War I and II.
I would agrue that the .325 WSM would have solved a bunch of issues that existed in the 80s and 90s. There's nothing that a .325 wsm can't do that you can't do with a .300 wsm with a bonded bullet. Go back to where where cup and core bullets were what's available and suddenly it really starts to pull ahead.
Great video, great series! Would love to see more! So naturally, I’d love to add a few things about 325 WSM. 2001. They introduced the 300 WSM as the newest greatest cartridge. Then four years later, they introduced the 325 as the newest greatest… you can’t stack the newest greatest cartridges so close, especially when ballistically the difference is… Minimal. Certainly availability is a big thing, I reload for the 8×57 and at this point the only bullets I can find are PPU. Fine for shooting at the range but not something I would take on a once in a lifetime coastal brown bear hunt. (of which Alaska fishing game on their website even says the two biggest reason people fail in their hunts here are lack of physical conditioning, and they brought a brand new fancy magnum rifle they are not familiar with, for big bear hunts. They recommend a 30-06 with 200 bullets.) The 300 cartridges are more than enough gun for anything in North America, and unfortunately, the 325 isn’t bringing enough difference to make all of the work it takes to become familiar enough with the cartridge to hunt confidently at distance. When I brought home my first 300 WSM, the only loading component I did not have s was the brass. I already had a very wide range of weights, brands, and bullet construction for the 30 caliber from my previous calibers I reloaded. The 325 also doesn’t legally meet the requirement for most African hunts so anyone with the resources to enjoy those won’t even consider the 325 WSM. I feel that it suffers the same fate from a non-Hunting perspective. It doesn’t bring enough difference to the table. If someone is shooting long range be it for competition, or just for fun there are a plethora of medium bore cartridges that absolutely smokes the 325 WSM. And if you’re shooting from a bench, what is the advantage of having a short action versus a magnum action? I wish I could lament the failure of the 325 WSM, but unfortunately, I used up all of my lamenting at the failure of the 8mm Rem Mag.
You guys are looking at this strictly from an American perspective. In Scandinavia, other parts of Europe and Africa, the 8X57 IS & 8X68 S are widely used and the 8mm calibers are hugely popular. They've also proven highly effective.
I remember articles saying 338 bullets wouldn’t feed with that case length in a SA rifle. They would have had to make a REM 338 SAUM case to make it work. Not good marketing to admit REM had the better case. Future talk, I think the SAUM cartridges were better than WSM’s to be able to shoot/feed larger bullets in a SA rifle?
Vasilent arsenal has a full line of wsm based cartridges. The biggest problem with the wsm cartridges is that factory loads had to be loaded to 2.800 inches to fit in most magazines and the winchester rifles had a magazine box length of 3.100 inches.
I still think the 325 wsm is a top 5 Oregon Cascade and Oregon Coast range cartridge. Easily take elk and black bear to 400. Yet it’s an easy moose and grizzly round. Definitely kill a coastal brown, but maybe not a bear stopper. It mirrors the 8x68 which is huge plains game success in Africa.
Thanks for this. Its intriguing cartridge. Im glad you mentioned the 338 RCM. I have a 338 RCM and use it in Alaska. Handy rifle to go in the airplane or as one of your other commenters mentioned in the boat. Nice discussion also abt the 338-06 which is also intriguing. I have a 338 win mag tho and am not sure i need 3 338s (but maybe i do!). I have taken the 338 RCM bear hunting. Thanks for the program.
Love my 325wsm and all the wsms for that matter have matching model 70 stainless in 270 , 300 and 325 all shoot barnes ttxx or lrx.sub moa . They are Very efficient cartridges Great case life for reloading . My 325 shoots 160 gr ttxs at 3380 fps avrage absolutely awesome preformance on elk
I think from what I’ve heard it did about as well as any other 8mm. We use the imperial systems and hence .30 caliber!!! If you have a .30 caliber and you have magnum .30 cal then .338” is the next logical step not .323”. It’s not enough difference to make a difference and .308” bullets are way cheaper abd more available. The only way 8mm would be popular in the states is if .30 caliber was literally banned
I still think the .300 rcm and .338 rcm were the better designed cartridges of the short magnums for hunting. I have the .300 rcm in the guide gun platform and i love it. I won't buy into the .338 rcm because ammunition cost and availability is nill. If I ever come into a used rifle/ammunition combination in .338 rcm I may put it in my stable.
I guess the great WSM’s are have more readily available in the mid west but in this area of the south they are almost un available. I can’t even find reloading components. Don’t understand. WB
Merriam/Webster dictionary Irregardless was popularized in dialectal American speech in the early 20th century. Its increasingly widespread spoken use called it to the attention of usage commentators as early as 1927. The most frequently repeated remark about it is that "there is no such word." There is such a word, however. It is still used primarily in speech, although it can be found from time to time in edited prose. Its reputation has not risen over the years, and it is still a long way from general acceptance. Use regardless instead.
how about the 338 Federal it is awesome and an absolute hammer on deer. BTW Ryan when you’re ready to sell your Weatherby 338-06 let me know…… how could you never shoot that!!!
I need this lead balloon series to continue. Please do more love the channel.
YES
🙌
👍👍
Definitely stay tuned!
Great episode. I’ve had and used a 325WSM for years guiding in BC. It’s an awesome cartridge. I’ve killed everything Grizzly, Moose, Elk, Mountain Goats and Sheep, many Deer, Wolves and coyotes. Pretty much everything in BC. Was originally looking at a 338WM but it was too long for me. I’m a handloader and have lots of rounds and components. Should be set to shoot my 325 for as long as I need to. Peace dudes, keep up the good work.
Another northern bc guy here . I run a 35 Whelen with 225 accubonds up here and have killed elk , deer and bears so far , I just picked up a 325wsm in a pistol grip browning blr . I’m excited to try it on game
The problem with 8mm cartridges is that Americans don't understand ballistics. And for the longest time it was very hard to find good US 8mm bullets. The 8mm Mauser--one of the all time great cartridges--was underloaded by US ammo companies for years because Americans don't understand ballistics. So Americans never appreciated the 8mm bore diameter.
Love the Lead Balloon idea. Great concept for a podcast. Nobody can get too much cartridge talk
Ope. Looks like you hit your 10-like threshold... looking forward to the next lead balloon segment. 7 STW would be a weird cartridge to talk about.
😂 we tried. Thanks for tuning in!
If I were to sell my STW, it would be for the 7 Rem Mag or PRC
Thanks for the review. I've been waiting for this review for a long time. I have a .325 WSM and it's dead on. From Elk to mule deer to whitetails to black bears, it does it all. I hope this cartridge never dies. 200 grains always does the job. I have many Browning Rifles from .243, .308, 6.8 Western but the .325 WSM is my favorite.
Same here. I love my 325 and 200 grain hits like a lead balloon !
I smoked my bull elk at 780 yards with my 325..
How does the 325 compare to the 300 with 200 gr bullets
.325 WSM 200 gr. Accubond @ 2950. It's very efficient!
I wonder the same. I bet a 200 grain 300wsm makes more sense ballistically
This could be a great series but it would have been even better if you had the rounds on the table for a physical comparison, maybe for the next episode? Cheers
Stay tuned 😏
Finally thanks mark and Ryan much love for the 325 here in Australia🇦🇺🇦🇺 it’s hard hitting and it’s not some boring 30cal
I had 300wsm first and sold it and brought the 325wsm cause it’s unique different not everyone has one and it’s not a tikka haha
We're so happy you enjoyed it, Luke! Thank YOU so much for tuning in all the way from Australia! 👊
Like they say, the “cool factor” trumps everything. Same reason I like the 16ga over the 12ga.
Love this cartridge. I took my first (and only) bull elk with this cartridge, and my first (and only) desert bighorn sheep with this cartridge. The sheep was taken at 510 yards. The Browning X-Bolt that I shoot this in, is one of my most accurate hunting rifles. Load it heavy and it's a .338 WM. Load it lighter, and it's a .30-06.
At 500 yards the 6.5 PRC has the same energy as the 325 WSM.
My uncle in law has a browning a-bolt in 325 wsm for when he goes elk hunting. He loves the thing and swears by the cartridge. Knowing him, its probably loaded with swift sciroccos. They tend to be his bullet of choice. Last I talked to him about building a rifle, he suggested I build a 6.5 prc so he can take me on an elk hunt with him. I think, He has come to the realization that critters of all sizes really don’t need the amount of power the old school bullets required.
I hope this series continues!! I'd love to hear you guys talk about the smallest of the big bores the 375 Winchester centerfire Magnum, could have been a very successful straight walled cartridge only to die out within a few years of its existence.
Can absolutely look into that! Definitely stay tuned - more to come and appreciate the suggestion!
338 06 AI seems like it would be an awesome rifle
It is!
They do great. My 35 Whelen is really similar . Just a bit higher velocity but a lower bc bullet . At hunting ranges bc means nothing tho
I bought a .325 WSM Browning X-Bolt at Gander Mountain in DeForest, WI when they went out of business. I can resize .300 WSM brass and there are plenty of 8mm options for bullet availability due to the unpopular diameter. It is as close to benchrest accurate I’ve found with Varget powder and Nosler AB’s.
I took an elk with it and it performed like a 338 WM. I personally don’t care how popular a cartridge is. I care about terminal performance. Absolutely love this cartridge/ rifle combination. Never getting rid of it.
The 7 wsm was amazing it’s a shame it didn’t take off
Agree. Same with the 270wsm, though it’s more popular than the 7. I like the wsm line in general.
My 7wsm still putting in work with the 168 and 175gr bergers
Now that y'all have introduced the lead balloon concept there's no reason that my beloved .41 rem mag should continue to get the snub
A decent cartridge plagued by the firearms it was chambered in. Its a shame, really.
And me waiting for this episode to talk about .284 / 7mm cartridges. Definitely would have been the best episode. No problem thanks for everything Vortex.
We appreciate the feedback and will definitely see what we can do for you on that in the future! Thanks so much for tuning in!
325 wsm suffers from no supply of affordable rifles, no reduced recoil ammo options. I love mine as a hunting cartridge.
300 rcm 358 winchester 338 federal 35 remington and should the 38-55 winchester make a straightwall comeback
The 325 is the best of the wsm series , absolute hammer
Numbers say the 300 but I have all but the 325 I'm looking for one but I'd say the 7mm is my fav
@@jmgates09the 7wsm is a hugely under appreciated cartridge
If you don’t have a WSM already…. And you have the time and money to find the decent .323 components then it’s a good choice. Otherwise a person could be a one gun hunter with a 300WSM and a reloading press.
Makes zero sense that .270 wsm did better than 7mm. Competition from 7mm R.M. caused that?
In the process of building a 375 WSM, necking up 325 WSM. Should run a 250 CX @ 2550, 3500 ft-lbs. 4" Max Trajectory Height, 236 Yd zero, 285 MPBR, 6" drop at 300 yds, 24" drop at 400 yds. Elk Thumper. Great job guys.
Wow that sound intriguing
8X57JSM :)
Glad to enjoyed the episode, thanks for tuning in! Keep us posted on the new build!
You should see better performance than that ... ive built a couple one on a browning lever gun. My favorite wsm variant is the 358 wsm or 35 sanbar. It pushes a 250 gr partition @ 2850 fps with 4500 fpe at the muzzle . It is the twin of the 358 norma mag in every aspect. Flatter than a 30-06 and still has 2500 fpe past 500 yrds.
160 Gr .375 RCM with a German 8mm extracted SMK 130gr tungsten core enveloped in brass would go through level 4 @ 300y with a 16 inch KAC SR25.
Zero recoil.
300 Savage….does everything you talked about. 150-180 factory, 200 hand loads , still the best North American cartridge for medium ranges. 308 while the child of the 300 SAVAGE is still a beast on short actions…recoil on both, minimal
Lead Balloon Idea: 25 WSSM
Do the 9.3x72R Sauer as a 10 minute Obscure Cartridge Talk
Absolutely love these cartridge talks!! Keep ‘em coming!!!
More to come for sure! Stay tuned!
358win and 338fed should be an episode. I stilll don't understand why these 308 case family rounds didn't become more popular?
307 and 356 fall into that same family and should have been more appreciated.
7-30 Waters is a great but forgotten round, as a single shot or lever action round it is one of the best!
8mm rocks .
Just bought a Savage Bear Hunter in .325 WSM. Stainless, fluted barrel, integrated brake. Shooting 220gr at 2900fps. G1.521BC. I'm happy with it. Approx 2000ft/lbs at 500 yards.
Where did you find that at I need one in my life
I have a 325 WSM in Winchester M70 feather weight. It performs well, and I don’t think it’s recoil too bad. I haven’t fired it in years because of poor ammunition supply. I like it, but it’s gone the way of the dodo. Thanks for your show.
Definitely understandable! Thanks so much for tuning in, my friend!
Lots of bullets out there . Barns and nosler being the best for hunting imo . if you owned a 325 vs the 300 you’d be singing it’s praises . Bigger frontal diameter matters and should be mentioned . I’ve owned both the 300wsm and the 325. The 325 just hits things different. Both are great cartridges but me being in g-bear country I’ll take the 325 anyway
450 Marlin would be a great one, by the time it was released, 45-70(thanks to higher case capacity) was being handloaded in leverguns to higher velocities/energies than it.
450 Marlin was basically solving a problem no one had, even at the time.
Up next on 10 minute talk 340 weatherby
There are too many cartridges on each side of the 325 WSM . As an original 323fan. If your hand loading, the 325 really didn't do much more than 8mm Mauser . But it still all comes down to what you want and what you think is viable for your situation.😊
300 RCM
An excellent cartridge that just suffered in comparison to the 300 SAUM and 300 WSM cartridges by being slightly slower. Look at cartridge comparison articles... they always point this out.
The 300 RSM used the a smaller diameter case (0.532" dia vs 0.550 and 0.555") and, since all three cartridges were designed to fit into Remington short actions (max 8.26" OAL) it had slightly less case capacity for propellant. I think that the main reason for the 300 WSM becoming dominant was that it had the highest velocity, if only by a little. Ironically, the standard SAAMI chamber for the WSM series has no section of tight freebore (leade) to help align the bullet, making it more difficult to get good accuracy. 300 WSM's custom designed for accuracy add in a section of freebore, BTW. All of these cartridges were limited to bullets with relatively short ogives and mediocre BC's, at least in traditional short actions and factory ammo.
FWIW, after a number of years, when the next group of short-magnum cartridges came about , the 6.5 PRC and 6.8 Western changed the definition of "short action" to 2.955" to allow bullets with longer ogives and higher BC's. It was just marketing, since as mentioned in a couple of Hornady podcasts, there really were too long for most "short action rifles" available at the time.
@@jfess1911 Thanks for the WSM lead info. Explains why I had such trouble getting good groups out of mine. It only like 2 bullet and powder combos that I can find.
I like this series concept. There's so many cartridges that were released and died on the vine for one reason or other; 338 Fed (a favourite of mine) comes to mind
Right on! Glad to hear you enjoy it! Stay tuned because there's more to come!
Do 308 marlin express and or 338 marlin express next
Good vid thank you. I think 6.8 Western is the next lead balloon.
with a bunch of companies going back and making faster twisted 270s and 270wsm instead of 6.8 western you are probably right
I have a browning x bolt in 325 wsm. Amazing killing machine elk and moose cartridge at 400-600 yards. It’s deadly I have taken many elk in Colorado shooting across mountains/ridges 1 shot kills that don’t run I have had my 300 wsm and 300 win mag. But the 8 mm bullet just kills quick. It dumps energy and turns Harry and lungs into soup and drops game quick. Wish it was more available. 338 win mag power and carries like a carbine rifle all day. LOVE mine
I’m surprised that for episode 284 you didn’t do something on the 7 mm/280/284s
I am a big fan on the 300 wsm. Im also really liking the 35 whelen. How about a wsm case necked out to .358 and made readily available. Now thats something i think would take off
I like that idea. I might have to try and wildcat that one. i love the 358win but wish i could have a little more and in iowa we can deer hunt with necked cartridge over .35 and 35 whelen is a great but if its going to be hard to find i might as well try and make a short action option
@@timbjork2098 i believe it has been done . Would just be cool if it was readily available. I think it would be a hit with alot of north americans that elk hunt in grizzly country.
@@Wapitiresources your right it has been done, I found reamers for it and dies. I found a thread claming RL17, 73gr with 200gr barns getting 2950fps
Jump up a notch in bullet size and drop the powder down and bring the .35 Rem 10 min talk to life!
I have to say this cartridge was victim of timing. Another great example is the 30 AR Remington. If the 30 AR we’re reintroduced today it would be a runaway freight train. The Ruger short magnums today would be a hit because the were designed for 20” barrels. Some of them were threaded for muzzle brakes, can you say suppressor?
For closer range shots meaning 300 an in a guide in alaska said the 325 wsm is his fav go to for short barrel and kicls less than a 375 hh
Ive been looking for a 325 WSM Since i first shot one way back when it came out. Love this cartridge. It and the 270 WSM are faves out of the series. My next fave? The 25 WSSM 😉
Mark talked me into a 300wsm liked it so much got the 270 n 7mm wsm now I just need the 325
I can say from personal observation the 325 WSM is an absolute hammer on game. Despite its ballistics shortcomings, which I am very familiar with as a long distance shooter it is an awesome round to hunt with if you are shooting within reasonable shooting distances.
A guy in my elk camp loads his 325 wsm with 220 grain woodleighs at 2900fps. It flat crushes elk. He calls it his light 8mm. His heavy is a long throated 8mm rem mag.
Lead balloon idea. The 35rem. JM Browning designed to pair with the Rem model 8 rifle
I have an 8mm rem mag, i love it. But... its a little obscure like the 325wsm
I bought a Remington 700 BDL in 8mm mag when it came out never caught on same thing as the 325wsm the 8mm mags problem was when it came out there wasn't any good bullets that would stand up to that velocity. Today we have good bullets for it now. It's a great cartridge also just never caught on.
I vote for 338/06
I have one
Not for everyone,I hand load
Couldn't afford to shoot it if I didn't
But I like to roll my own
The WSM's were designed just before laser rangefinders became widespread. Short-mags were really considered flat-shooting 500-yard max cartridges. The 325 WSM more of a 300-yard cartridge. They generally used relatively light bullets to get high velocities. Before many hunters had good range finders, a flat trajectory was needed to minimize range-estimation errors. Long-range cartridges as we think of them today, mainly became popular after 2010. Most early 300 WSM loads, for example were around 150 grains. The 325 often shot 180grains.
Lol I’ve dropped moose, caribou, grizzlies over 500yards with that round but sure yeh 300 yard round lol
@@kalen4246 I am saying how it was viewed at the time. Look up some of the articles from when it came out.. The main original loading was 180 grain. It was marketed as a "bigger game", cartridge that shot very flat out to 300 yards. That was when the whole goal was to point and shoot without worrying about bullet drop.
The .323 bullets make good use of the case capacity and using today's bullets is capable of excellent performance. Luckily, the spec is 1:10" twist which permits fairly long bullets. Like the other WSM's, using a standard action and loading long really helps.
I think you’re probably correct. I have a 270wsm, and as a 350 yard and in type of hunter, it’s perfect. Also I use copper bullets, so maximizing velocity is important. The WSMs are great, and a 300 might just be in my future.
You guys read my mind. I stumbled upon this cartridge a week or so ago in my reloading manual and after checking it out, I was shocked I haven't heard more about it. Per Lyman's 51st Reloading Manual, the fastest 325 WSM 220 grain loading hits 2790, while the fastest 225 grain loading for the 338 win mag is 2769 (no 220 grain loadings listed). Nearly 338 win mag performance out of a short action rifle, with about 10% less recoil? Wow.
We've never claimed to be mind readers but....... 👀
Need more Lead Balloon episodes for sure .
We're glad you enjoyed it! Stay tuned!
American ammo companies download the 8mm Mauser. So Hornady could load up the cartridge with a 200 grain Accubond at 2600 fps. They could call it the ".325 TRC". All the silly hipsters who like the 6.5 PRC and 7mm PRC would love the sound of the .325 TRC and it would take off. By the way .325 TRC stands for Third Reich Cartridge.
...the .325 WSM, loaded with the 220gr. Sierra BT (o.530BC) @ 2800fps is a whole different animal, the lighter, low BC loads aren't even comparable...
How about the WSSM variants for a future talk? Pretty sure they're lead balloons.
I just had my reamer delivered for 375 WSM. I necked up 325WSM brass. Pretty straight forward, but I am really excited to try it out.
Tell me more how is it working out??
An apples to apples comparison would be the .325 WSM to the 8mm Remington magnum. IMHO.
1939 8mm bullets were .579 b.c.
198gr @ 3100fps would be trans @ 1600y.
.325 WSM is a Stacey round.
.325 WSM mangles 6.5 Creedmoor and 6.5 PRC.
Fight me.
I like the idea of a bigger diameter bullet on a WSM. Something like a 338 or 358. Talk about a 300 yard thumper ! Can you imagine a 225gr 0.358" Nosler partition or accubond 225gr @ 2750-2800. Chambered in something like a Tikka T3X or a Kimber.
7lbs loaded with scope. That's big bear capable... It's like what the 350 rem mag Should have been... It's the 350 rem mag or 35 Whelen plus 150fps-200fps.
Please do this series. I’m actually building a 338 RCM currently for a Tikka Switch Barrel rifle 😅 so I wanna see the RCM lead balloon series 😊
When i was looking for a rifle for Canadian moose back in the 00's, i briefly flirted with the 325 wsm before settling on a 300 RUM. No regrets, but I've always had a bit of a fondness for the 325. Great podcast, I'll take all the lead balloons you got.
I feel like a .358 WSM would have made a heck of a lot more sense. Not so close to the .30 cal as to be redundant or overlapping, not a .338 that is handicapped by requiring short light bullets compared to the big 338s. A flat shooting hard hitting thumpy hunting cartridge for “real world hunting” out to 400 or so with 200-250 grain bullets that aren’t trying to compete with high bc 30 cals but hits stupid hard at ordinary hunting ranges. There are a decent selection to bullets of bullets in the 200-250 grain range that aren’t particularly long to worry about mag length.
I had a .358 Norma for a season of life. I’m biased 🤣
I have a .325wsm. Found an unfired Xbolt Stainless Stalker about 5yrs ago. I have put only 20rounds through it, of the Win Exped 200gr CT ammo. The last shot it fired killed a young bull moose at 162yards. Moose walked 25yards and fell over. Bullet was recovered on the opposite side, stuck into the hide. I have 6 full boxes of ammo for it. They were $78/box (CAD)at the time, now they’re usually $110 if I can find them lol.
Love this idea. Should do one on the 264 win mag please!!!!!!
Sure can! Appreciate the suggestion!
I like this round so much, I just re-barreled a Montana 1999, but have to admit that I've only used it in years past in Alaska for moose. It and the 338 RCM are both about perfect for a handy rifle, especially for float trips.
Only advantage I could see is the availability of certain types of bullets. Are there 325 bullets built for big dangerous game? (Solids or something?) Are they better for bear/moose?
I doubt there is but that’s all I can think of.
Gotta see more of these lead balloons! How about the .358 win and in one form or another I still need to see Ryan's knowledge on the .458 SOCOM
You guys never mention the .338 RUM as a comparison. It is, in my opinion, the best of the RUM cartridges. It produces the same ballistics as the 338 Lapua with less powder, in a normal magnum length action. The genius engineer Jim Borden was a proponent of the cartridge instead of the 338 Lapua. With handloads, I am pushing a 250gr bullet right at 3100 fps. Frontal diameter makes a huge difference on game! It and the 325 wsm were released just a few years apart from each other. My 338 RUM rifle with a good muzzle break on it recoils comparably or less than a 300 win mag. I own(ed) 2 wsm cartidges. I still own a 270 wsm, in my opinion the best of them, and in my opinion better than the 6.8 Western.......yes I've studied the numbers. I traded my 325 wsm back to the original owner, because I couldn't find ammo/components for it. It was a lovely shooting/performing rifle. I just recently (about 3 weeks ago) bought 270 wsm ammunition at my local sporting goods store. I think it stays around a while.
When will we see the 8mm PRC?
Actually Briefly the 325 did do go good.A certain lawsuit on patent infriengement n along with the New Haven Winchester Closeing.Didnt help it or the others either.
As for bullets due to the 325 AB Etip SST GMX TTSX
It was n is my Favortie of the WSMs
were they considering euro hunters as 8mm is alot more common
I have the 325 WSM in. Browning Xbolt. I absolutely love this cartridge. Very very efficient, it likes two bullets more than any other, the Nosler Accubond and the Barnes TSX, both 200gr and both over RL17. I can’t quite reach the book numbers for the Accubond without a compressed load which I prefer to avoid. The TSX reaches the book MV easily. That issue points out the isdue with the chamber/cartridge design that handicaps it. The throat of factory rifles/standard chamber design prevented bullets in the 200 gr and 225 grn weights from being seated out far enough to not intrude into the case capacity. Issues that later cartridge designs from Creedmore and PRC which allow heavy for caliber bullets to be used without sacrificing case capacity. The reporting at the time was that they couldn’t keep it in a short action and give it the design the throat length it needed - which was supposedly also a reason why the 338 test cartridge was dropped.
Despite what some writers have written, the recoil is mild IMO. I literally could discern very little difference between the 325 in the Xbolt SS Stalker from my Remington 270 BDL. That mild recoil easily makes the 325 a true all rounder for every animal in North America and African plains game. The only real drawback currently is Norma is the only brass still readily available.
I can't help but think that the reason why 8mm calibers have never taken off in the US is because your Grandfather and Great Grandfather were getting shot by the 8mm Mouser in World War I and II.
I would agrue that the .325 WSM would have solved a bunch of issues that existed in the 80s and 90s. There's nothing that a .325 wsm can't do that you can't do with a .300 wsm with a bonded bullet. Go back to where where cup and core bullets were what's available and suddenly it really starts to pull ahead.
Great video, great series! Would love to see more!
So naturally, I’d love to add a few things about 325 WSM.
2001. They introduced the 300 WSM as the newest greatest cartridge.
Then four years later, they introduced the 325 as the newest greatest… you can’t stack the newest greatest cartridges so close, especially when ballistically the difference is… Minimal.
Certainly availability is a big thing, I reload for the 8×57 and at this point the only bullets I can find are PPU. Fine for shooting at the range but not something I would take on a once in a lifetime coastal brown bear hunt. (of which Alaska fishing game on their website even says the two biggest reason people fail in their hunts here are lack of physical conditioning, and they brought a brand new fancy magnum rifle they are not familiar with, for big bear hunts. They recommend a 30-06 with 200 bullets.)
The 300 cartridges are more than enough gun for anything in North America, and unfortunately, the 325 isn’t bringing enough difference to make all of the work it takes to become familiar enough with the cartridge to hunt confidently at distance. When I brought home my first 300 WSM, the only loading component I did not have s was the brass. I already had a very wide range of weights, brands, and bullet construction for the 30 caliber from my previous calibers I reloaded.
The 325 also doesn’t legally meet the requirement for most African hunts so anyone with the resources to enjoy those won’t even consider the 325 WSM.
I feel that it suffers the same fate from a non-Hunting perspective.
It doesn’t bring enough difference to the table.
If someone is shooting long range be it for competition, or just for fun there are a plethora of medium bore cartridges that absolutely smokes the 325 WSM. And if you’re shooting from a bench, what is the advantage of having a short action versus a magnum action?
I wish I could lament the failure of the 325 WSM, but unfortunately, I used up all of my lamenting at the failure of the 8mm Rem Mag.
More lead balloons! Do the 30 TC.
You guys are looking at this strictly from an American perspective. In Scandinavia, other parts of Europe and Africa, the 8X57 IS & 8X68 S are widely used and the 8mm calibers are hugely popular. They've also proven highly effective.
I remember articles saying 338 bullets wouldn’t feed with that case length in a SA rifle.
They would have had to make a REM 338 SAUM case to make it work.
Not good marketing to admit REM had the better case.
Future talk, I think the SAUM cartridges were better than WSM’s to be able to shoot/feed larger bullets in a SA rifle?
Vasilent arsenal has a full line of wsm based cartridges. The biggest problem with the wsm cartridges is that factory loads had to be loaded to 2.800 inches to fit in most magazines and the winchester rifles had a magazine box length of 3.100 inches.
I still think the 325 wsm is a top 5 Oregon Cascade and Oregon Coast range cartridge. Easily take elk and black bear to 400. Yet it’s an easy moose and grizzly round. Definitely kill a coastal brown, but maybe not a bear stopper. It mirrors the 8x68 which is huge plains game success in Africa.
Thanks for this. Its intriguing cartridge. Im glad you mentioned the 338 RCM. I have a 338 RCM and use it in Alaska. Handy rifle to go in the airplane or as one of your other commenters mentioned in the boat. Nice discussion also abt the 338-06 which is also intriguing. I have a 338 win mag tho and am not sure i need 3 338s (but maybe i do!). I have taken the 338 RCM bear hunting. Thanks for the program.
Thanks for tuning in - glad you enjoyed! And thank you for being a part of Vortex Nation!
Love my 325wsm and all the wsms for that matter have matching model 70 stainless in 270 , 300 and 325 all shoot barnes ttxx or lrx.sub moa . They are Very efficient cartridges Great case life for reloading . My 325 shoots 160 gr ttxs at 3380 fps avrage absolutely awesome preformance on elk
Have the 338f balloon ,,remember when the wsm was hot and nearly pursued the 325, the fealing left quickly with no regrets….
I think from what I’ve heard it did about as well as any other 8mm. We use the imperial systems and hence .30 caliber!!! If you have a .30 caliber and you have magnum .30 cal then .338” is the next logical step not .323”. It’s not enough difference to make a difference and .308” bullets are way cheaper abd more available.
The only way 8mm would be popular in the states is if .30 caliber was literally banned
Thanks Mark i just purchased a Browning abolt in 325wsm to complete my wsm collection and it all started with hearing u brag about the 300wsm.....
All my friends told me,”Sell your 300 Win Mag. Buy a 338 Win mag. You will feel less pain.” I did it, and they were right. Both 9 lb guns with scope
There are folks still rocken the 8mm Remington Magnum which also faded, so the 325 WSM will still be around for a long time.
It's the best wsm fight me 😃
Waiting for your next Lead balloon. 300 RCM, all 8MM cartridges in America and 7MM STW.
I have long wondered why all 8mm's failed in the US despite US collectors being completely obsessed with everything German.
They like German weapons that use 8mm, they dont like German weapons _because_ they use 8mm.
Would a .358 WSM be more popular/ powerful? Wouldn’t it be similar or more powerful than a 35 Whellen?
Unpopular opinion: 8mm is better than 30 cal. If I want the better BC I'll go with a 7mm.
Is there a .270 Winchester Magnum? Possibly a wild cat?
I still think the .300 rcm and .338 rcm were the better designed cartridges of the short magnums for hunting. I have the .300 rcm in the guide gun platform and i love it. I won't buy into the .338 rcm because ammunition cost and availability is nill. If I ever come into a used rifle/ammunition combination in .338 rcm I may put it in my stable.
It's mostly about the bullet design. The .325 WSM does it with less powder and can beyond 200 gr.'s bullets
Y'all need to talk about the biggest lead balloon of the 21'st century.....the .338 Federal
Winchester had a 220gr PowerPoint loading for the .325 WSM.
I guess the great WSM’s are have more readily available in the mid west but in this area of the south they are almost un available. I can’t even find reloading components. Don’t understand. WB
338 Federal- sadly, a lead balloon
Technically "irregardless" is correct, people now-a-days bastardize speech and change things.
Merriam/Webster dictionary
Irregardless was popularized in dialectal American speech in the early 20th century. Its increasingly widespread spoken use called it to the attention of usage commentators as early as 1927. The most frequently repeated remark about it is that "there is no such word." There is such a word, however. It is still used primarily in speech, although it can be found from time to time in edited prose. Its reputation has not risen over the years, and it is still a long way from general acceptance. Use regardless instead.
how about the 338 Federal it is awesome and an absolute hammer on deer. BTW Ryan when you’re ready to sell your Weatherby 338-06 let me know…… how could you never shoot that!!!
325 WSM.has nothing a 340 weatherby wont do much better.