Retro-fitted all of my ARs with POF's roller cam kits using the MOACKS pocket tool and newer "Optimum Red 750'F" by Permatex. As a minor point I question using the Permatex gasket material at just one spot on the flat mating surfaces of the carrier. Always used an even coat all over entire surfaces when making seals. Point here is a possible slight tilt as the gas tube inserts into the carrier receiving tube. A lot of heat and vibration will be in play.
I am using a very small amount of gasket maker with the idea it gets squeezed flat and the minimal excess is forced out. I don’t go too overboard with it, as many lesser brands do not use a sealant at all and “work just fine”. I am of the opinion that, even in absence of the gasket maker, the surfaces will self-seal with carbon over time anyway so a large amount of sealant is unnecessary and could potentially obstruct the orifices if it’s really extreme. Beyond that, it is always good to check for gas tube rub and make minor adjustments as necessary.
I definitely want a MOACKS. Rn I’m using the Brownells gas key staking jig it works really good with ocks screws. Displaced metal is moved precisely into the grooves.
Thanks for documenting and taking the time to upload. I find this type of maintenance and Repair to be quite Cathartic. Rad🤙🏻 Keeping our most important tools exercised and in proper shape is crucial.. Exercise strengthens, Neglect weakens…
Glad you enjoyed it. I have always found gas key swaps to be kind of fun. Both technical in the use of a torque driver to get the proper fastener tension, but some hand work of applying sealing and getting the staking right. Simple but enjoyable task.
Appreciate the video.I would like to add that if you have any sealant squeeze out the sides,make sore the gas port inside the carrier is cleared of any sealant aswell.
An excellent point to be made. It’s definitely worth a quick glance if someone has a bore scope handy. Generally, though, most people don’t, and I’ll be of the opinion that unsupported sealant is almost certainly going to get blown out during initial test firing. Someone would have to be going really overboard with the sealant to actually obstruct function, and small amounts will probably just burn off slowly and be exhausted through the carrier vents or cleaned out during routine cleaning practices. So, yes, check if you’re able and are uncertain of quantities to use, but I normally probably wouldn’t bother with it.
Just found your channel and its looks like you have a lot of good vids. I have a feeling your going to have a big channel in the near future, I'm glad I will be a early subscriber.
I appreciate it. It all started with not being able to find a video on disassembly of the new Python… so figured someone ought to do it. It’s more or less evolved into just whatever I happen to be tinkering with at the time. The theme is somewhat undefined, but I try to keep it interesting or at least informative.
Thanks. Just the information I was looking for. I am changing out gas keys and decided to buy new stripped bolt carriers, but in the future I want to know how to remove a gas key and you showed that very well. I am putting adjustable keys on over gassed uppers in 7.62x39. Reducing the amount of gas and recoil will likely result in longer life on the extractors.
Taking them off can definitely be a bit tricky depending on how severe the staking is. I understand why companies like it aggressive, because it satisfies the consumers’ desire for seeing a staked carrier… but they really do way more than is actually necessary. Fortunately they usually don’t need to ever be disassembled again so it’s normally not a problem.
0:05 - Yes human. I'm ALWAYS helping. Thank you for the information. I'm putting this POF roller kit on my M16/A4 clone and really wanted verification as to what I was doing.
It’s overall a pretty easy task. The main thing is proper and consistent torque. That’s the key to it being durable. The sealant, the staking… they’re more of a bonus. They don’t matter if the torque is incorrect.
Great video. I have used the "field expedient" method of staking with great success -- there really is no need for more expensive tools unless you like the look of the staking job, or you do a lot of them. I'm curious, how well does that Permatex Optimum hold up to solvents? I was considering using it, but I also don't want it to break down over time from cleaning.
I have had no issues with it breaking down. In reality, that helps initially for immediate reliability, but that gap will fill with carbon over time anyway. The gasket maker is really just a stop gap to make sure that carbon seals develops quickly and that reliability is good while it does.
Fasteners should, generally, not be lubricated unless it is called for. The TM does not call for lubrication. Lubricating fasteners when it isn’t called for increases the effective torque. It causes more stretching of the fastener than what the recommended torque value actually intends. In the effort to be more accurate, you might actually cause strain to the fastener by lubricating it excessively. (Although in this application I doubt it really matters that much, but that’s just my individual opinion and not supported by the documentation.)
The carrier key seen in the video is paired with the POF roller cam pin. The finish appears to be hard chrome, but it could be something else. The purpose of it is that it has a cutout to allow the roller cam pin to fit. The finish difference isn’t the reason for changing it.
@@ColterBrog Ok 👌🏻.But, would it make any sense to change the phosphated Carrier Key for a Nickel boron key? What do you think? I have my key broken by a blow and I like the Carrie Key Nickel boron along with my phosphated carrier… But I have some doubts to ask… thanks
@@Custompro36610I don’t think it matters one way or the other. Carrier keys, even phosphated, normally have a chromed interior. Installing one that is nickel boron is fine if you like the look or perceive it to be better, but I can’t think of any practical benefit. In short, do what makes you happy because it’s not going to make a difference for better or worse.
Im considering buying new carrier keys, a carrier key staking tool and some extra higher grade fasteners just to detect if there were any deficiencies at the factory. Does this sound prudent or a waste of resources?
Probably a waste, unless you’re purposefully upgrading to something like the POF roller cam pin that requires replacing the carrier key. Most of the time the carrier keys themselves last forever. Unless it is dropped on a hard surface during cleaning, there isn’t really much to go wrong. Unless something has failed, you also aren’t likely to detect any deficiency in manufacturing. Visually you can’t verify the quality of the fasteners, and fasteners normally fail by being over-torqued, or they come loose by being under-torqued. All that can really be done would be to visually see that the fasteners are staked- which if they are staked at all is usually good enough. “Proper” staking doesn’t have to be extremely aggressive. People I think tend to worry excessively about the gas key. Most manufacturers now know how to do it right, and failures of the gas key, fasteners, or deficiencies in assembly are rare.
@ColterBrog Thank you for responding. I asked because I noticed that when Caleb from Brownells and Chad at SOTAR each replaced a gas key, they first sanded the bottom to make it flat for a better seal. In both instances, the new key wasn't flat, and so I figured mine probably aren't flat either if two out of two of their's weren't. And, so, what's to be gained by flatening a key for a better seal on a carrier that isn't having any problems, yet? It feels like nitpicking, but if I can make the key flatter for a better seal, then I almost feel obligated to do it. This type of thinking is my approach to many things and it drives me nuts. So, I appreciate your answer that it probably is a waste of time.
@@5jjtI’ve never seen anyone do that in real life. Apparently people do, but that has never occurred to me to even consider it. The flat bottom is flat enough… and making it flatter is fighting a losing battle because you have no way to effectively flatten the adjoining carrier surface. A key that is installed with appropriate fasteners and torque values and is staked isn’t much of an “issues yet” kind of thing. It’s usually a permanent assembly that lasts for the life of the components except in rare flukes. In almost any instance that isn’t damage to a disassembled component or a manufacturing defect, at least as far as I can even imagine, the combined carrier and key assembly will outlast multiple bolts and barrels. I don’t even know what the service life is of a carrier and key assembly of good quality because I’ve never seen one actually wear out, including on rental machineguns that had worn out multiple barrels and bolts. You’re probably talking about rifles that had 100,000 rounds on them, and had been rebuilt multiple times, but still had the original carrier and gas key. In short, don’t sweat it. Your rifle is fine. If it works today, it will probably work tomorrow, and unless you start spending a few tens of thousands per year on ammo you’re unlikely to wear out a carrier in the next few decades. Rest easy.
I had to abrade the sides of two of the POF-USA roller upgrade kit carriers keys. They measured widths of 0.4025" and 0.4015" respectfully. The channel atop the bolts measured 0.3995". Bolts are from KAK Industry, dual ejector bolts. I've had no luck finding the measurement data for the width of that channel the carriers set into. Any data about that would be most helpful. I only took a minute with a 600 grit diamond wheel to bring them both down to 0.3995" to fit.
Interesting. I didn’t have any fitment issues with mine. I don’t have those measurements but might have to do some digging around to see if I can find more information.
Found an "engineering change order and diagram" that calls for Permatex Aviation form-a-gasket #80019, 400'F, Publ. date uncertain. I'll be deferring to the higher temp. Permatex Optimum Red 750'F # 27038 . Avoid Loctite 638, new thread locker that sets up far too quickly and is EXTREMELY hard. Works on threads under stress not flat surfaces, even when clamped.??
@@ColterBrog Nice. Thank you. I have 3 Toolcraft chrome bolts I'd like to install the roller cam in to. Should I get the POF gas key or reuse the existing?
@@Ashley-wm7ixI would definitely get the POF gas keys, that way you can actually disassemble the bolt carrier group without having to remove the gas key again.
New to AR:s so I found your video while searching for solutions to an issue I’m having. The first BCG you showed had wear front right and rear left of the gas key. I have the same on my brand new AR after just 14 rounds of sighting-in shots (plus whatever the factory fired). The misalignment seems to push the BCG out of alignment enough to not go in to battery smoothly, it creates a little hickup. Is this something that will wear away, or is the BCG (maybe only gas key) junk?
Let’s clarify this a bit. What is causing the bolt to not go into battery? Are the locking lugs impacting the locking lug abutments because the bolt is partially into the locked position on the forward travel, or is it happening sooner than that? It is probably not the gas key, assuming the fasteners are snug. You might have a canted gas block causing the gas tube to not be centered and that causes the gas key to impact it. Not an uncommon issue and easy to correct. You could have an out of spec cam pin or upper receiver which starts trying to lock too early when it encounters resistance from the cartridge. I’ve seen this once. It’s definitely solvable, but just need some more detail… does it do this when it is not loaded? Empty rifle hangs up or only loaded?
@@ColterBrog Edited this comment after a more careful examination in better lighting. Yes, it is most definitely the gas block that is a bit tilted. I’ll let the gun store handle that. Thanks a lot! /A
@Anders57292 Is the rifle oiled? I wouldn’t be too concerned about the wear patterns, especially this early on. If you aren’t experiencing any malfunctions, I would just attribute what you’ve described to being a new rifle. Modern manufacturing allows sufficient precision for these rifles to operate right out of the box, but there is still a period of wearing in as the surfaces mate up and everything smooths out. Obviously this is without seeing the rifle, but it doesn’t sound out of the ordinary.
@@ColterBrog Yes, I cleaned it and oiled it plenty prior to sighting it in. I’ve understood that they want to be run wet, maybe even greased slightly around the areas we’re discussing here. Thank you, then I won’t refrain from using it if the repair is delayed. /A
Don’t think I’m familiar with retaining compound. If I’m honest it probably doesn’t matter very much if you even use anything, if you have the ability to test. I think a large part of the gasket compound is just making sure it works from the start. The reality is probably that with even mediocre parts they’ll run a bit inefficiently at first until they develop their of carbon seal, which is probably all the gasket seal does anyway.
You could potentially stretch the fasteners which would cause a weakness in them. That could result in snapping off a fastener in that instant, or it failing at a later time unexpectedly. Small fasteners like these are somewhat particular about torque value. Too little and obviously they can come loose, but they’re so small it’s not that difficult to apply too much torque and cause a weakening of the fastener. I’m usually not too much of a stickler on exact torque values but these fasteners in this application are definitely one of those instances where following the spec is a good idea.
Ultimately, while it is called for per spec, plenty of keys have been installed with no sealant whatsoever and they work just fine as the small gap will carbon up and seal itself fairly quickly. The sealant just helps ensure that process happens quickly.
Yes, there are many different sealants being used and recommended..They all have their reasons..There are also a lot of carriers that fail because of certain ways or inappropriate ways of attaching the gas key..One thing I would recommend for you is to put some type of oil on your gas key screws to get proper torque. Most torque specs are measured with lubed screws and bolts..I have never used your high heat gasket sealant before, but it does look promising..Many ways to skin a cat..@@ColterBrog
Also, you don't have to incrementally increase the torque like that , just set it to 58 and go for it . Use OCKS screws , way better than the normal grade 8 stuff. Get a MOACKS pocket staking jig while you are at it.
I have used a MOACKS before, and it is a nice tool, but since most people don’t have one (myself included) it’s more practical for instruction purposes to demonstrate the approved field staking technique. A lot of home workshops have a hammer and punch, but not specialized tools like MOACKS. The incremental torquing is probably not necessary, you’re right, but it is what I am familiar with and gives me peace of mind that everything is sucking in flush and even. I will have to look into the OCKS screws. I’m always happy to try better parts. Thanks for the feedback, I appreciate your input.
I went through some quality center punches before breaking down and forking over the funds for the MOACKS, the carrier steel was a HARD mil spec. Finished them all with very professional and sufficient stakes. Thanks to Ned Christenson with his MOACKS. . @@ColterBrog
Very good video. Your camera work could be better due to the delicate work and exact detail necessary. I'm not a gun smith but l like to know how things should be done just in case so thank you. Better close up camera work would make this video perfect. Thanks again.
Yeah, camera work is definitely something I need to work on- really my skills with technology in general regarding filming and editing. I’m still filming everything on an iPhone 12, but am getting better at positioning and some basic editing. It’s a pretty slow learning curve for a Luddite wrench turner. Lol.
Retro-fitted all of my ARs with POF's roller cam kits using the MOACKS pocket tool and newer "Optimum Red 750'F" by Permatex. As a minor point I question using the Permatex gasket material at just one spot on the flat mating surfaces of the carrier. Always used an even coat all over entire surfaces when making seals.
Point here is a possible slight tilt as the gas tube inserts into the carrier receiving tube. A lot of heat and vibration will be in play.
I am using a very small amount of gasket maker with the idea it gets squeezed flat and the minimal excess is forced out.
I don’t go too overboard with it, as many lesser brands do not use a sealant at all and “work just fine”.
I am of the opinion that, even in absence of the gasket maker, the surfaces will self-seal with carbon over time anyway so a large amount of sealant is unnecessary and could potentially obstruct the orifices if it’s really extreme.
Beyond that, it is always good to check for gas tube rub and make minor adjustments as necessary.
I definitely want a MOACKS. Rn I’m using the Brownells gas key staking jig it works really good with ocks screws. Displaced metal is moved precisely into the grooves.
Thanks for documenting and taking the time to upload. I find this type of maintenance and Repair to be quite Cathartic.
Rad🤙🏻
Keeping our most important tools exercised and in proper shape is crucial..
Exercise strengthens, Neglect weakens…
Glad you enjoyed it. I have always found gas key swaps to be kind of fun. Both technical in the use of a torque driver to get the proper fastener tension, but some hand work of applying sealing and getting the staking right.
Simple but enjoyable task.
Appreciate the video.I would like to add that if you have any sealant squeeze out the sides,make sore the gas port inside the carrier is cleared of any sealant aswell.
An excellent point to be made. It’s definitely worth a quick glance if someone has a bore scope handy.
Generally, though, most people don’t, and I’ll be of the opinion that unsupported sealant is almost certainly going to get blown out during initial test firing. Someone would have to be going really overboard with the sealant to actually obstruct function, and small amounts will probably just burn off slowly and be exhausted through the carrier vents or cleaned out during routine cleaning practices.
So, yes, check if you’re able and are uncertain of quantities to use, but I normally probably wouldn’t bother with it.
Just found your channel and its looks like you have a lot of good vids. I have a feeling your going to have a big channel in the near future, I'm glad I will be a early subscriber.
I appreciate it. It all started with not being able to find a video on disassembly of the new Python… so figured someone ought to do it. It’s more or less evolved into just whatever I happen to be tinkering with at the time. The theme is somewhat undefined, but I try to keep it interesting or at least informative.
Thanks. Just the information I was looking for. I am changing out gas keys and decided to buy new stripped bolt carriers, but in the future I want to know how to remove a gas key and you showed that very well. I am putting adjustable keys on over gassed uppers in 7.62x39. Reducing the amount of gas and recoil will likely result in longer life on the extractors.
Taking them off can definitely be a bit tricky depending on how severe the staking is. I understand why companies like it aggressive, because it satisfies the consumers’ desire for seeing a staked carrier… but they really do way more than is actually necessary. Fortunately they usually don’t need to ever be disassembled again so it’s normally not a problem.
0:05 - Yes human. I'm ALWAYS helping.
Thank you for the information.
I'm putting this POF roller kit on my M16/A4 clone and really wanted verification as to what I was doing.
It’s overall a pretty easy task. The main thing is proper and consistent torque. That’s the key to it being durable. The sealant, the staking… they’re more of a bonus. They don’t matter if the torque is incorrect.
This looks like A LOT of fun.
It is a fairly enjoyable task. Slightly technical, but overall very simple and straightforward.
Excellent information! Thanks
Thanks!
Great video! 👍🏼 Thank you!
My pleasure. Thanks for commenting.
Very nice, DETAILED, music free vid. One suggestion , you can pick up a 20ish something dollar Wheeler bench block to hold the BCG.
Thanks, and good idea. The bench block would probably keep me from shaking like I am having withdrawals trying to hold everything in alignment. Lol
Thank you for this video!
Thank you for the comment. I hope you found the video helpful.
Great video. I have used the "field expedient" method of staking with great success -- there really is no need for more expensive tools unless you like the look of the staking job, or you do a lot of them. I'm curious, how well does that Permatex Optimum hold up to solvents? I was considering using it, but I also don't want it to break down over time from cleaning.
I have had no issues with it breaking down.
In reality, that helps initially for immediate reliability, but that gap will fill with carbon over time anyway. The gasket maker is really just a stop gap to make sure that carbon seals develops quickly and that reliability is good while it does.
Hey thanks for your video!
Glad you found it helpful, thanks for commenting!
Do you lube the gas key screws for an accurate torque value?
Fasteners should, generally, not be lubricated unless it is called for. The TM does not call for lubrication.
Lubricating fasteners when it isn’t called for increases the effective torque. It causes more stretching of the fastener than what the recommended torque value actually intends. In the effort to be more accurate, you might actually cause strain to the fastener by lubricating it excessively. (Although in this application I doubt it really matters that much, but that’s just my individual opinion and not supported by the documentation.)
Why put Carrier Key Nickel Boron in BCG phosphated ???? does it have any benefit?🙋🏻♂️🙋🏻♂️🙋🏻♂️🙋🏻♂️🙋🏻♂️
The carrier key seen in the video is paired with the POF roller cam pin. The finish appears to be hard chrome, but it could be something else.
The purpose of it is that it has a cutout to allow the roller cam pin to fit. The finish difference isn’t the reason for changing it.
@@ColterBrog Ok 👌🏻.But, would it make any sense to change the phosphated Carrier Key for a Nickel boron key? What do you think? I have my key broken by a blow and I like the Carrie Key Nickel boron along with my phosphated carrier… But I have some doubts to ask… thanks
@@Custompro36610I don’t think it matters one way or the other. Carrier keys, even phosphated, normally have a chromed interior. Installing one that is nickel boron is fine if you like the look or perceive it to be better, but I can’t think of any practical benefit.
In short, do what makes you happy because it’s not going to make a difference for better or worse.
Im considering buying new carrier keys, a carrier key staking tool and some extra higher grade fasteners just to detect if there were any deficiencies at the factory. Does this sound prudent or a waste of resources?
Probably a waste, unless you’re purposefully upgrading to something like the POF roller cam pin that requires replacing the carrier key.
Most of the time the carrier keys themselves last forever. Unless it is dropped on a hard surface during cleaning, there isn’t really much to go wrong.
Unless something has failed, you also aren’t likely to detect any deficiency in manufacturing. Visually you can’t verify the quality of the fasteners, and fasteners normally fail by being over-torqued, or they come loose by being under-torqued.
All that can really be done would be to visually see that the fasteners are staked- which if they are staked at all is usually good enough. “Proper” staking doesn’t have to be extremely aggressive.
People I think tend to worry excessively about the gas key. Most manufacturers now know how to do it right, and failures of the gas key, fasteners, or deficiencies in assembly are rare.
@ColterBrog Thank you for responding. I asked because I noticed that when Caleb from Brownells and Chad at SOTAR each replaced a gas key, they first sanded the bottom to make it flat for a better seal. In both instances, the new key wasn't flat, and so I figured mine probably aren't flat either if two out of two of their's weren't. And, so, what's to be gained by flatening a key for a better seal on a carrier that isn't having any problems, yet?
It feels like nitpicking, but if I can make the key flatter for a better seal, then I almost feel obligated to do it.
This type of thinking is my approach to many things and it drives me nuts. So, I appreciate your answer that it probably is a waste of time.
@@5jjtI’ve never seen anyone do that in real life. Apparently people do, but that has never occurred to me to even consider it. The flat bottom is flat enough… and making it flatter is fighting a losing battle because you have no way to effectively flatten the adjoining carrier surface.
A key that is installed with appropriate fasteners and torque values and is staked isn’t much of an “issues yet” kind of thing. It’s usually a permanent assembly that lasts for the life of the components except in rare flukes.
In almost any instance that isn’t damage to a disassembled component or a manufacturing defect, at least as far as I can even imagine, the combined carrier and key assembly will outlast multiple bolts and barrels. I don’t even know what the service life is of a carrier and key assembly of good quality because I’ve never seen one actually wear out, including on rental machineguns that had worn out multiple barrels and bolts. You’re probably talking about rifles that had 100,000 rounds on them, and had been rebuilt multiple times, but still had the original carrier and gas key.
In short, don’t sweat it. Your rifle is fine. If it works today, it will probably work tomorrow, and unless you start spending a few tens of thousands per year on ammo you’re unlikely to wear out a carrier in the next few decades.
Rest easy.
Very interesting. Thank u
Thanks for the comment.
I had to abrade the sides of two of the POF-USA roller upgrade kit carriers keys. They measured widths of 0.4025" and 0.4015" respectfully. The channel atop the bolts measured 0.3995". Bolts are from KAK Industry, dual ejector bolts. I've had no luck finding the measurement data for the width of that channel the carriers set into. Any data about that would be most helpful. I only took a minute with a 600 grit diamond wheel to bring them both down to 0.3995" to fit.
Interesting. I didn’t have any fitment issues with mine. I don’t have those measurements but might have to do some digging around to see if I can find more information.
Found an "engineering change order and diagram" that calls for Permatex Aviation form-a-gasket #80019, 400'F, Publ. date uncertain. I'll be deferring to the higher temp. Permatex Optimum Red 750'F # 27038 . Avoid Loctite 638, new thread locker that sets up far too quickly and is EXTREMELY hard. Works on threads under stress not flat surfaces, even when clamped.??
much appreciated. Those edges help control alignment of the carrier key and gas tube so they are critical (my 2 cents).@@ColterBrog
Now that the gas key is staked, how did you get the roller cam in?
This gas key from POF has a circular cutout on the side that allows clearance for the roller cam pin to be installed and removed.
@@ColterBrog Nice. Thank you. I have 3 Toolcraft chrome bolts I'd like to install the roller cam in to. Should I get the POF gas key or reuse the existing?
@@Ashley-wm7ixI would definitely get the POF gas keys, that way you can actually disassemble the bolt carrier group without having to remove the gas key again.
@@ColterBrog Thank you very much!
New to AR:s so I found your video while searching for solutions to an issue I’m having.
The first BCG you showed had wear front right and rear left of the gas key. I have the same on my brand new AR after just 14 rounds of sighting-in shots (plus whatever the factory fired). The misalignment seems to push the BCG out of alignment enough to not go in to battery smoothly, it creates a little hickup.
Is this something that will wear away, or is the BCG (maybe only gas key) junk?
Let’s clarify this a bit. What is causing the bolt to not go into battery? Are the locking lugs impacting the locking lug abutments because the bolt is partially into the locked position on the forward travel, or is it happening sooner than that?
It is probably not the gas key, assuming the fasteners are snug.
You might have a canted gas block causing the gas tube to not be centered and that causes the gas key to impact it. Not an uncommon issue and easy to correct.
You could have an out of spec cam pin or upper receiver which starts trying to lock too early when it encounters resistance from the cartridge. I’ve seen this once.
It’s definitely solvable, but just need some more detail… does it do this when it is not loaded? Empty rifle hangs up or only loaded?
@@ColterBrog
Edited this comment after a more careful examination in better lighting.
Yes, it is most definitely the gas block that is a bit tilted.
I’ll let the gun store handle that.
Thanks a lot!
/A
@Anders57292
Is the rifle oiled?
I wouldn’t be too concerned about the wear patterns, especially this early on.
If you aren’t experiencing any malfunctions, I would just attribute what you’ve described to being a new rifle. Modern manufacturing allows sufficient precision for these rifles to operate right out of the box, but there is still a period of wearing in as the surfaces mate up and everything smooths out.
Obviously this is without seeing the rifle, but it doesn’t sound out of the ordinary.
@@ColterBrog Yes, I cleaned it and oiled it plenty prior to sighting it in. I’ve understood that they want to be run wet, maybe even greased slightly around the areas we’re discussing here.
Thank you, then I won’t refrain from using it if the repair is delayed.
/A
gasket seal vs retaining compound?
Don’t think I’m familiar with retaining compound.
If I’m honest it probably doesn’t matter very much if you even use anything, if you have the ability to test.
I think a large part of the gasket compound is just making sure it works from the start. The reality is probably that with even mediocre parts they’ll run a bit inefficiently at first until they develop their of carbon seal, which is probably all the gasket seal does anyway.
How important is the torque? I understand 56in/lb but if its over torqued a little is it going to make any difference ?
You could potentially stretch the fasteners which would cause a weakness in them. That could result in snapping off a fastener in that instant, or it failing at a later time unexpectedly.
Small fasteners like these are somewhat particular about torque value. Too little and obviously they can come loose, but they’re so small it’s not that difficult to apply too much torque and cause a weakening of the fastener.
I’m usually not too much of a stickler on exact torque values but these fasteners in this application are definitely one of those instances where following the spec is
a good idea.
Colt uses Permatex Aviation Form-A-Gasket to seal their carrier keys..
Ultimately, while it is called for per spec, plenty of keys have been installed with no sealant whatsoever and they work just fine as the small gap will carbon up and seal itself fairly quickly. The sealant just helps ensure that process happens quickly.
Yes, there are many different sealants being used and recommended..They all have their reasons..There are also a lot of carriers that fail because of certain ways or inappropriate ways of attaching the gas key..One thing I would recommend for you is to put some type of oil on your gas key screws to get proper torque. Most torque specs are measured with lubed screws and bolts..I have never used your high heat gasket sealant before, but it does look promising..Many ways to skin a cat..@@ColterBrog
What do you think of the Brownell’s staking tool that uses pointed screws?
I think it’s fine as long as it is tightened evenly on both sides.
Also, you don't have to incrementally increase the torque like that , just set it to 58 and go for it . Use OCKS screws , way better than the normal grade 8 stuff. Get a MOACKS pocket staking jig while you are at it.
I have used a MOACKS before, and it is a nice tool, but since most people don’t have one (myself included) it’s more practical for instruction purposes to demonstrate the approved field staking technique. A lot of home workshops have a hammer and punch, but not specialized tools like MOACKS.
The incremental torquing is probably not necessary, you’re right, but it is what I am familiar with and gives me peace of mind that everything is sucking in flush and even.
I will have to look into the OCKS screws. I’m always happy to try better parts. Thanks for the feedback, I appreciate your input.
I went through some quality center punches before breaking down and forking over the funds for the MOACKS, the carrier steel was a HARD mil spec. Finished them all with very professional and sufficient stakes. Thanks to Ned Christenson with his MOACKS. . @@ColterBrog
Very good video. Your camera work could be better due to the delicate work and exact detail necessary. I'm not a gun smith but l like to know how things should be done just in case so thank you. Better close up camera work would make this video perfect. Thanks again.
Yeah, camera work is definitely something I need to work on- really my skills with technology in general regarding filming and editing.
I’m still filming everything on an iPhone 12, but am getting better at positioning and some basic editing. It’s a pretty slow learning curve for a Luddite wrench turner. Lol.
Will this pof gas key work with a regular cam pin?
Yes. The only difference is that little scallop so the POF cam pin has clearance. Doesn’t interfere with use of a standard cam pin at all.
@@ColterBrog Thanks.
Can you share a link to this POF roller cam pin upgrade kit? Thanks