I still think there should be an ending where Lae'zel volunteers. She's the loudest when it comes to freeing her people but when Orpheus is freed and says someone must do it...she is deathly quiet.
Lae'zel is lowkey selfish and hypocritical. She doesn't truly care about her people. Her biggest sincere dream was to see herself ascended, to see herself wielding a silver sword, to ride the dragon, and to receive recognition from githyanki. She's arrogant, and she never stopped being so throughout the entire adventure. Additionally, her second biggest fear besides "being forgotten" (if you talk to her corpse) was "become a mindflayer". Therefore, I really don't think that her volunteering herself would be a logical step from the plot point of view. Of course, it would be a nice character development, but observing how her character went through the story, I think we should perceive things realistically. Lae'zel ain't that kind of person who would sacrifice herself to defend a friend, especially if that sacrifice is becoming ghaik.
Why exactly should she? Stopping the Grand Design is what every single gith fights for, 'yanki, 'zerai or otherwise. Becoming part of it is the worst fate possible to them.
@@senittoaoflightning4404 Because stopping the Grand Design is the entire point of becoming a squid in this particular situation. It's why Orpheus willingly sacrifices himself. Say what you will about the absurdity of needing a squid to use the Netherstones against the brain, but that is the narrative, and the fact that Lae'zel never even considers the possibility of doing what Orpheus does in many playthroughs is very telling.
@@artificerprime4154 That has got nothing to do with her though. It's part of the writing. The player is supposed to sacrifice themselves in favour of saving Orpheus and Karlach.
When I made a Gith character I thought I’d get a cool story parallel and maybe even relevant to Laezel’s but it’s nothing like that, you don’t matter to the Gith story in the slightest and nothing Laezel faces has any impact on your personal Gith character, you’re barely acknowledged as Gith and best they could come up with is adding a [Githyanki] tag in front of a general dialogue that a drow or halfling would get, it even has irrelevant questions like what a crèche is! They’ve really neglected this race (for non-origin character) plot wise
Yes, mainly because it should always be possible to be your first playthrough. If the options don't fit your character, don't select them. Furthermore you can always play a Lae'zel origin run if you want to have her story. As for why is is that way in universe? I would say Urlon is to blame, considering he is not a big fan of Vlaakith, while still being the ruler of Stardock, he probably told Voss of how good Lae'zel is.
There is a much, much better option. Gale is also in the party, you can accept to become a mindflayer to take the supreme tadpole but tell the emperor that you will transform later. You can then choose to free Orpheus anyway, and then tell Orpheus that you trust in Gale. Nobody becomes a mindflayer (until the final battle with the netherbrain), and you save Orpheus! If you're playing as origin Gale, you can also have Wyll in party, if you like. If origin Gale is romancing companion Karlach and becomes a mindflayer himself, then you can tell Karlach (and Wyll, if you failed to end the contract with Mizora) to go to Avernus. You go to see Mystra who restores your soul and body back to a human. Nobody is a mindflayer!
Nope. She does not even volunteer or offer an alternative solution in this conversation to deal with the Netherbrain. Gale, Karlach, and even the Emperor all offer something to help deal with the brain, but Lae'zel just cares about freeing Orpheus and doesn't really think beyond that. And when Orpheus volunteers to be a flayer, she doesn't even demonstrate any willingness to take his place. I can't tell if it's an oversight on the writers' part, or if Lae'zel is just that unwilling to become a squid.
@@artificerprime4154 Probably a mix of both. The entire "Orpheus or the Emperor" decision is very lacking in general. But most gith would never willingly become ghaik, the fact that Orpheus is willing to go through that shows that he truly cares for others.
The only non-origin characters who can become a mindflayer are Karlach or Orpheus. Origin Gale can become a mindflayer, and when he sees Mystra, she can restore his body and soul to be a human, so nobody is a mindflayer! If you are romancing Karlach, you can tell her (and Wyll, if you failed to end the contract with Mizora) to return to Avernus.
@@Taric25 incorrect, you need to break his contract with mizora and afterwards succeed in saving his father from mizora for him to be willing to go to avernus
Yeah this is why I don't entirely 'like' Lae'zel even after all her development. I don't dislike her but she's being extremely selfish here on multiple counts. First as littlehorror points out, the fact she does not volunteer to become a mind flayer to save Orpheus the agony of it is ridiculous and extremely hypocritical. Orpheus is central to the entire rebel Githyanki cause, if he is a mind flayer it is doomed to fail and she should know this. Lae'zel is willing to throw anyone and anything under the bus except herself. Second she doesn't even CONSIDER that this is the best option Karlach has in terms of her life outside of Gale turning her into a Goddess which isn't available here. If she said something like 'I understand that this might be your chance to save your life, but would you assure the continued slavery of all my people in exchange for a 'chance' of saving your life or a 'chance' for you to be that hero?' that would make her position more defensible. I'm not sure how it could be worded in a way Lae'zel would actually say though, but I don't think it would be beyond her to think that way. Third, despite all the time she has spent with people not native to Githyanki teachings and beliefs she still clings to dumb mottos and repeated slogans and refuses to think for herself. First Vlakkith controlled her now Orpheus, without even saying a word. The Githyanki whether ruled by Vlakkith or Orpheus makes little different to the people of Baldur's Gate and beyond. Both will consider other species with the same level of disdain and indifference at best, contempt and outright hostility at worst. By now Lae'zel should understand this and why the Githyanki are so disliked. She may not agree with it or care about it, but she should understand it, she does not.
" Second she doesn't even CONSIDER that this is the best option Karlach has in terms of her life" Cause it isn't. If Karlach is overtaken by the parasite Karlach is truly dead. "Both will consider other species with the same level of disdain and indifference at best, contempt and outright hostility at worst" Do you KNOW that? It seems a lot like you just assume that to be the case. From all we see it seems more likely that Orpheus would be a relatively more peaceful leader, though that is mainly due to visual hints, which many people just don't consider. He is very intentionally designed to closely resemble the other gith, the githzerai. 1. his tri'su tattoos are inverted, which is closer to 'zerai tir'su than 'yanki tir'su. 2. his outfit closely resembles 'zerai monks 3. he is a monk (like his honour guard), a class extremely common among the 'zerai and practically unheard of among the 'yanki 4. the same goes for other parts of his design like his beard and bald head. "Third, despite all the time she has spent with people not native to Githyanki teachings and beliefs she still clings to dumb mottos and repeated slogans and refuses to think for herself." That's what cult do to you. If you spend your whole life blindly (and especially as extremely as her) following a leader it will be nigh impossible not to cling to a new cause once you're free, especially when it opposes your former leader.
Is this a headcanon? If anything mindflayers may be sexless creature but i'm pretty sure Emperor is of the male gender since they were a male human before illithidfication and choose to address themselves as "Emperor" instead of "Empress" or something genderless like "Regent" "Sovereign" or "Monarch"
Dang this is cool to see two companions engaging in the conversation with the PC at the same time!
I still think there should be an ending where Lae'zel volunteers. She's the loudest when it comes to freeing her people but when Orpheus is freed and says someone must do it...she is deathly quiet.
Lae'zel is lowkey selfish and hypocritical. She doesn't truly care about her people. Her biggest sincere dream was to see herself ascended, to see herself wielding a silver sword, to ride the dragon, and to receive recognition from githyanki. She's arrogant, and she never stopped being so throughout the entire adventure. Additionally, her second biggest fear besides "being forgotten" (if you talk to her corpse) was "become a mindflayer". Therefore, I really don't think that her volunteering herself would be a logical step from the plot point of view. Of course, it would be a nice character development, but observing how her character went through the story, I think we should perceive things realistically. Lae'zel ain't that kind of person who would sacrifice herself to defend a friend, especially if that sacrifice is becoming ghaik.
Why exactly should she?
Stopping the Grand Design is what every single gith fights for, 'yanki, 'zerai or otherwise. Becoming part of it is the worst fate possible to them.
@@senittoaoflightning4404 Because stopping the Grand Design is the entire point of becoming a squid in this particular situation. It's why Orpheus willingly sacrifices himself. Say what you will about the absurdity of needing a squid to use the Netherstones against the brain, but that is the narrative, and the fact that Lae'zel never even considers the possibility of doing what Orpheus does in many playthroughs is very telling.
@@artificerprime4154 That has got nothing to do with her though.
It's part of the writing.
The player is supposed to sacrifice themselves in favour of saving Orpheus and Karlach.
@@artificerprime4154 Play her Origin run if you think she should sacrifice herself.
When I made a Gith character I thought I’d get a cool story parallel and maybe even relevant to Laezel’s but it’s nothing like that, you don’t matter to the Gith story in the slightest and nothing Laezel faces has any impact on your personal Gith character, you’re barely acknowledged as Gith and best they could come up with is adding a [Githyanki] tag in front of a general dialogue that a drow or halfling would get, it even has irrelevant questions like what a crèche is! They’ve really neglected this race (for non-origin character) plot wise
Yes, mainly because it should always be possible to be your first playthrough. If the options don't fit your character, don't select them.
Furthermore you can always play a Lae'zel origin run if you want to have her story.
As for why is is that way in universe? I would say Urlon is to blame, considering he is not a big fan of Vlaakith, while still being the ruler of Stardock, he probably told Voss of how good Lae'zel is.
There is a much, much better option. Gale is also in the party, you can accept to become a mindflayer to take the supreme tadpole but tell the emperor that you will transform later. You can then choose to free Orpheus anyway, and then tell Orpheus that you trust in Gale. Nobody becomes a mindflayer (until the final battle with the netherbrain), and you save Orpheus!
If you're playing as origin Gale, you can also have Wyll in party, if you like. If origin Gale is romancing companion Karlach and becomes a mindflayer himself, then you can tell Karlach (and Wyll, if you failed to end the contract with Mizora) to go to Avernus. You go to see Mystra who restores your soul and body back to a human. Nobody is a mindflayer!
Wyll can also go to Avernus if you ended the contract with Mizora. As long as he chose to become the Blade of Avernus and not a politician.
can non origin lazel be turned into a mindflayer?
Nope. She does not even volunteer or offer an alternative solution in this conversation to deal with the Netherbrain. Gale, Karlach, and even the Emperor all offer something to help deal with the brain, but Lae'zel just cares about freeing Orpheus and doesn't really think beyond that. And when Orpheus volunteers to be a flayer, she doesn't even demonstrate any willingness to take his place. I can't tell if it's an oversight on the writers' part, or if Lae'zel is just that unwilling to become a squid.
@@artificerprime4154 Probably a mix of both. The entire "Orpheus or the Emperor" decision is very lacking in general.
But most gith would never willingly become ghaik, the fact that Orpheus is willing to go through that shows that he truly cares for others.
@@artificerprime4154 gotcha ill keep letting her talk her self to death by her fellow gith each playthro then
The only non-origin characters who can become a mindflayer are Karlach or Orpheus. Origin Gale can become a mindflayer, and when he sees Mystra, she can restore his body and soul to be a human, so nobody is a mindflayer! If you are romancing Karlach, you can tell her (and Wyll, if you failed to end the contract with Mizora) to return to Avernus.
@@Taric25 incorrect, you need to break his contract with mizora and afterwards succeed in saving his father from mizora for him to be willing to go to avernus
Yeah this is why I don't entirely 'like' Lae'zel even after all her development. I don't dislike her but she's being extremely selfish here on multiple counts.
First as littlehorror points out, the fact she does not volunteer to become a mind flayer to save Orpheus the agony of it is ridiculous and extremely hypocritical. Orpheus is central to the entire rebel Githyanki cause, if he is a mind flayer it is doomed to fail and she should know this. Lae'zel is willing to throw anyone and anything under the bus except herself. Second she doesn't even CONSIDER that this is the best option Karlach has in terms of her life outside of Gale turning her into a Goddess which isn't available here. If she said something like 'I understand that this might be your chance to save your life, but would you assure the continued slavery of all my people in exchange for a 'chance' of saving your life or a 'chance' for you to be that hero?' that would make her position more defensible. I'm not sure how it could be worded in a way Lae'zel would actually say though, but I don't think it would be beyond her to think that way.
Third, despite all the time she has spent with people not native to Githyanki teachings and beliefs she still clings to dumb mottos and repeated slogans and refuses to think for herself. First Vlakkith controlled her now Orpheus, without even saying a word. The Githyanki whether ruled by Vlakkith or Orpheus makes little different to the people of Baldur's Gate and beyond. Both will consider other species with the same level of disdain and indifference at best, contempt and outright hostility at worst. By now Lae'zel should understand this and why the Githyanki are so disliked. She may not agree with it or care about it, but she should understand it, she does not.
" Second she doesn't even CONSIDER that this is the best option Karlach has in terms of her life"
Cause it isn't. If Karlach is overtaken by the parasite Karlach is truly dead.
"Both will consider other species with the same level of disdain and indifference at best, contempt and outright hostility at worst"
Do you KNOW that? It seems a lot like you just assume that to be the case. From all we see it seems more likely that Orpheus would be a relatively more peaceful leader, though that is mainly due to visual hints, which many people just don't consider. He is very intentionally designed to closely resemble the other gith, the githzerai.
1. his tri'su tattoos are inverted, which is closer to 'zerai tir'su than 'yanki tir'su.
2. his outfit closely resembles 'zerai monks
3. he is a monk (like his honour guard), a class extremely common among the 'zerai and practically unheard of among the 'yanki
4. the same goes for other parts of his design like his beard and bald head.
"Third, despite all the time she has spent with people not native to Githyanki teachings and beliefs she still clings to dumb mottos and repeated slogans and refuses to think for herself."
That's what cult do to you. If you spend your whole life blindly (and especially as extremely as her) following a leader it will be nigh impossible not to cling to a new cause once you're free, especially when it opposes your former leader.
So you did not have the orphic hammer?
Yes, the player has the orphic hammer in this version of the scene. Otherwise there would be no point in arguing about freeing Orpheus.
Bah, another character misgendering the Emperor as "he".
But otherwise really cool scene.
well, he has a male voice and also used to be balduran. 'Emperor' is also masculine...
I'll call him whatever I want.
Bruh its a video game character get over yourself stop being such a softie
Its an IT because its an ABOMINATION!!!
Is this a headcanon? If anything mindflayers may be sexless creature but i'm pretty sure Emperor is of the male gender since they were a male human before illithidfication and choose to address themselves as "Emperor" instead of "Empress" or something genderless like "Regent" "Sovereign" or "Monarch"