If Walhart wasn't bogged down by piss poor battles and actually given the power to be a conqueror(Maybe having Basilio survive be a player option rather than forced) Walhart would be an EASY 9/10 villain to join the crimson ranks of Edie and Arvis
I like gangrel too. Most people don’t realize he doesn’t get redeemed. His evil led to his eventual shaming and abandonment until he’s pathetic trash that only joins Chrom to find a place to die because he’s too cowardly for suicide.
I am here for Griss appreciation. I think his VA did a great job in selling his personality and I really liked how he isn't just a one dimensional crazy villain as he has times where he acts more serious and shows that he is perfectly aware of what he's doing. That aside he's also just a really fun villain to fight
Walhart seems to be just another villain in Awakening, but I think his parallels to Echoes' characters make him a much better character. He wants to unite the continent of Valm (much like Alm and Celica) but uses ruthless force because that's what he believes in (much like Duma). He wishes to destroy the Grimleal to prevent Grima's awakening and believes he is greater than the gods (a central theme to Echoes' plot). It's also said he's similar to Alm and I believe implied to be related to him.
adding to this walhart reminds me the most of rudolf! between the red-white color scheme and their weirdly convoluted plans to fight back against a corrupt(ed) god through brute forcing their way into other nations. walhart being related to alm would also make him related to rudolf too which makes it come full circle :)
I do love Edelgard but it's so weird when people try to find excuses for her actions. Like, you can like a character who's kind of a villain, no need to try to make them look better than they are... if you think about it, trying to find comparisons for Edelgard in actual history would bring up some more than questionable people
Edelgard is definitely in the wrong by teaming with those who slither in the dark. I will not deny that her and Hubert do some DARK things. But yeah, at the end of the day, everyone is in the wrong. Yet it's up to us to choose who receives the light and our loyalty. Black Eagle Strike Force Forever!!
Best comparison I can think of is Napoleon (Tried to modernise Europe out of backward feudalism, but still was imperialist, and also very short) but as far as historical figures go Napoleon isn't really that bad, like compare him and Hitler who's worse
no its fine a germanic villain trying to wipe out a religious people who were "chosen by the goddess" is fine and not reminiscent of anything in history. Not at aaaaaall
the skit with berkut in his section had me laughing. that’s really how it feels!!!! i can only really tolerate that scene if i assume he’s hallucinating and there is no ghost. that does remind me the fanmade romhack sacred echoes does address what you bring up in that scene and have the cousins talk it out a little more in berkut’s final moments :)
Out of the spin-offs, one I really like is the Gharnef Mirage from Tokyo Mirage Sessions. Probably my biggest complaint for TMS is that the heroic Mirages are pretty paper thin due to casting their memories aside. This is not the case for Gharnef, who straight up is the one Marth would've fought had TMS not been a distant sequel to FE12's bad ending. His plan was simple: he convinced a deluded producer to follow his plans to summon Medeus without needing brainwashing and took advantage of Itsuki clearing the trials to capture Marth's soul and use it as one of the components of the ritual. His past as a failed pupil also resonates with the party, who for the most part are aspiring performers, yet they refuse to accept what Gharnef does to lash out. Gharnef also has my favourite battle theme in the game and the hardest boss up to this point. What really seals the deal is that once he loses he uses his own soul to awaken a Medeus at full power out of spite.
That’s my problem with edelgard. We’re supposed to see her as sympathetic and tortured, but never once does she self actualize on her actions. Not even when you’re on her good route. Dimitri isn’t much better, but that’s because he actually does self actualize and realize he’s a murdering monster and chooses not to hide it. Edelgard just expects everyone to fawn over her even though she has dove literally nothing to improve life for herself or her people. If anything, she makes it all worse. Heck, even rhea, who is the second most selfish character in the series, realizes the wrong she’s done by the end, but has gone too far to stop on her own. This is why I ultimately quit three houses. The blue lions and golden deer ultimate redeem themselves in one facet or another, though they hardly come up smelling like roses. The eagles? Nothing. They get nothing for their sacrifices.
@@CountShaman Your thoughts are incredibly inaccurate. Edelgard is entirely aware of her sins and is entirely prepared to suffer for them. She's literally see's herself as a sacrifice for Fodlan. She doesn't expect anyone to fawn over her. She hides the fact she visits the graves of the fallen soldiers. It's absolute COPE or ignorance to think otherwise.
@@Trikzilla I never said she doesn't care about the people who fought with her. But the story did a poor job drawing attention to it. I know they want to emphasize how Edelgard doesn't care about glitz and glamour and just wanted to do what she can to complete her mission, including stepping down from her throne. But relegating her fight with the Agarathans as exposition gives the impression that they're not "important" to her story. All the stuff they did to her, including being the ones who stain her path with innocent blood, and they're not important enough to show being beaten to establish closure to all the sacrifices Edelgard made up to that point. The fact that no one takes issue with it DOES make it come across as her being made just to be fawned over. This is the only counterargument I will make. Not feeding into another cycle of Edelgard debate myself.
@Trikzilla Edelgard cares but she's also very, very, very ignorant and not really self aware. You do see some of it in CF itself with how the route has her do the same thing that she accuses Rhea of, but never gets called out on it. Blatantly making up shit that you can find out in other routes is actively not true, but again never getting called out on it in her own route. What that leaves is a chatacter who THINKS that her actions will help others but ultimately they don't and only serve the purpose of feeding her own ego. What makes it worse is if you up the lore of the Empire and realize that it has a lot of problems that are unique to itself that Edelgard tends to project onto other countries. I think this is a fine quality for a villain to have, but not a hero.
Glad to see someone else point out that both Rhea and Edelgard are in the wrong. IMO, Rhea is a momma’s girl who never got over her death thus neglecting her responsibilities while Edelgard is using her background as an excuse to do the horrible things she does, which is never justifiable in my eyes, Casper said it best ‘It’s all about you, isn’t it!?’. Of Engage’s villains Mauvier and Veyle are standouts for me that I really enjoyed especially Veyle. Berkut’s mental breakdown still gives me chills, amazing performance by Ian Sinclair. Ironic that the best villain is still tied to an older Fire Emblem game who IMO have a better rogue’s gallery than all of modern Fire Emblem put together.
@@hilgigas09 To guide the people of Fodlan like her mother did, of which she did a rather poor job to say the least, because under her Fodlan has stagnated.
@@HilversumbornOops, forgot to reply. I'm of the mind that as the leader of a church, specifically, her place is to provide moral support and charity. Whether or not Fodlan progresses is not her responsibility nor her right to change. Sothis' didn't rein in Agartha and nearly ended all life on the continent, the rule of her children was too involved and caused them to be remembered as evil gods, Rhea's involvement paints her as a secret mastermind.
@@hilgigas09 Yeah but 1000 years of doing nothing but trying to bring her mother back to life, while at the same time TWSITD are scheming, sorry but that's only more proof to me that she's not up for the job.
Yeah at least as an antagonist she doubles down and stick to her "necessary evil" schtick. I hate CF for trying to redeem her. They shouldn't even try. Let her be the villain. Let US be the villain. Let Byleth commit war crimes and have your entire army be appalled by their own actions but find themselves unable to stop due to some internalised sunk cost fallacy (oh god we did a horrible thing, but it's for a good cause so I have to keep at it a bit more to make this worthwhile)
@@straypaper It's definitely a cool idea that I'd be down with, but due to FE's current mainstream nature and the need to make the main character "morally appealing", it will pretty much never happen by IntSys' hands, unless they really feel like jumping the gun and surprising us.
Since you brought up Three Hopes, I'll say that Scarlet Blaze is honestly where Edelgard is at her best. That said, it's also difficult to call her a villain in that game, so yeah...
Ooooh, this is a fun video. Most of the time when it comes to FE lists I just have to nod and smile because I've only played the modern FE games, but this was great. Spoilers for the Video Won't comment on all of the entries, but I do have some things to add. Iago was kind of a bland piece of bread for me and honestly I prefer Garon's almost clownish levels of evil to Iago, but he was at least intimidating in certain parts of Conquest. I kind of wish they'd kept with Gregoire being a more menacing figure in the background. Revealing him to be a sniveling coward could've been great if they emphasized his more sinister side by putting him in a position where he was actually in control. Hyacinth was kind of a nothing burger for me, but I do think he works well in small doses. Especially his goodbyes to Ivy and Hortensia. Veyle felt like yet another overplayed mind-control story that just stuck around longer than I liked. Ohoho, the controversial Edelgard. I honestly do see Edelgard as both a villain and a hero depending on circumstances, but she is dragged down by the Three House writers clearly not caring about fleshing out the Crimson Flower route. Honestly, despite all of Three Hopes' problems, it really was a great addition just for how it evens the playing field for the three house leaders. Dimitri gets to have actual ideals, we see how Edelgard would act *without* the Agarthans breathing down her neck, and we get to see Claude be the scheming Machiavellian he was always meant to be. I'd actually argue that all three could be considered villains under certain circumstances. Though, it is no understatement to say that Rhea is at least 50% the reason for all the problems in Fodlan. I'm always floored by how so many people who are for or against Rhea and/or Edelgard don't realize how similar the two are. Suffered unjustly and horrifically at the hands of malignant forces? Check. Lost their entire families forever leaving them emotionally scarred? Check. Created a new system of governance to establish order and promote their own ideals of what is "right"? Check. Comes to the conclusion that their way is the best way and is willing to use force to do so? I think that one is self-evident. I could go for pages on pages on the complexity of both Rhea and Edelgard but I'm not here to write a TEDtalk. Finally, and most deservingly, Berkut. Blessed by the voice of Ian Sinclair and containing some of the best written parallels with Alm. Berkut's fall is equally satisfying and heartbreaking. You can see it Berkut's character that he's *so* close to being a hero, so close to joining the right side, but he trips at every chance he gets. So obsessed with his supposed birthright and sense of pride that he devolves into madness. Which perfectly reflects the state of Duma, who is the ultimate threat of the game. SS tier writing and such a great villain.
Me too. Most people don’t get that he was never redeemed. He was a pathetic rat looking for a place to die and Chrom just convinced him he’d have a better chance dying with his lot.
Should Edelgard and Rhea *really* count as villains? Sure, they serve as the other's antagonist, but they aren't straight up villains. They're both main characters in their respective routes and they're more of an opposing faction leader rather than a straight up villain.
Hyacinth? I don't know about him. But the Four Hounds were such a great group of villains in Engage. I really love seeing them like a family of equally despicable fellas. They started off as a memorable, menacing crew... to a sort of sympathetic gang that kind of crumbled near the end of the game.
@CountShaman I may have worded it wrong, I don't really feel bad for any of them, but I was kinda sad to see them go. I thought it was funny and enjoyable whenever they popped up as the bosses, but I kinda didn't want them to dissappear from the story and game in general. Thankfully, we get Mauvier and the Four Winds from the DLC
I personally am happy that Berkut is at the top on this list. From his backstory, screen time, tragic death scene & a really good voice actor, Berkut is better all other villains in SoV and that includes Jedah.
Were it not for the fact that Fire Emblem Heroes is an ongoing series as of writing, for me, Loki would have made the cut for me (so long as her final story doesn't jump the gun, that is). That said, I'm really glad that both of Engage's entries are given their spotlights. I've always had a soft spot for Saturday Morning cartoons, but those can only get so good if the villains are entertaining, and Engage delivers in spades. While it is certainly a far cry from Fire Emblem's usual standings (call it Super Robot Wars E), it's always good to see that a long-running franchise is willing to experiment with established formula, and I can't wait to see what the next game has to offer, cliche as it may be to say. For the Worst Villains, I wonder where you'll put entries from FEH? While I've only got as far as Book III's beginning, I do know that Books V and VI have a bit of a slump when it comes to their writing. Either way, the next countdown will be as enjoyable as usual, no doubt!
Unfortunately, I'm not too well-versed with Heroes lore. I only followed the game to see what characters I can get HQ art from lol. I do like a lot of the villain designs though, and maybe once there's enough stuff to cover for that game, I will get more into it. Also what you say about experimenting things happens to be a similar thing I already said and recorded for the next list, coincidentally lol.
Personally I found books V and VI to have much more engaging stories than most of the prior books (III is similarly good), V especially I'd say is my favorite of the lot
Honestly the reason I love crimson flower so much is because we get to be the villain which is such a cool concept, I guess we got that in Conquest, but it’s Conquest so who gives a shit😂
Honestly I think Walhart is a genuinely well-conceived character, I really like his thematic parallels with Emmeryn and the fact that he also planned to stop the reincarnation of Grima. He is basically a mirror version of Chrom with the same goals but different ideals. Also he's Alm's descendant, which isn't really an impressive piece of narrative writing but is cool lore and I am a sucker for returning characters (or their descendants) between Fire Emblem games. Also, I don't know if the Falchion that Alm used is canonically the same Falchion that Marth/Chrom used or if there are multiple divine swords of the same name floating around, but if Walhart had pulled out Alm's Falchion to fight Chrom in the climax of arc it would have literally been the coolest fucking battle in all of Fire Emblem and you can't change my mind.
I gotta say I don’t like Lady Rhea when you really think about it she’s like a child and thinks if her mother the Goddess can come back then everything will be alright to the point where she ignores everything else and yes she’s immortal that doesn’t mean she should let the mortals kill each other
She’s literally insane through grief. I think she’s a near perfect tragic villain though her covering up the past two the same empire that saved her was stupid
I feel like rhea and edelgard mirror eachother. Edelgard is just a more naive rhea with less information available and they were both manipulated into hated each other
I'd put Edelgard the same tier as Rhea because she's such an overreaching part of Three Houses' conflict. It's just a shame people don't see her as the villain she actually is and people simp for strange fantasy she's 100% a hero. Rhea is a fantastic villain though because there are actually so many layers to her character that are allowed to be peeled back across the four different routes in Three Houses.
I think the best way to describe Mauvier is he's the "Lorenz" of Engage! You remember the Old Man from Shadow Dragon with the Eyepatch right? The General who started the trend of enemy generals with personalities SIMILAR to Camus, but instead they can actually be convinced to defect to your side as their not COMPLETELY blinded by "honor" to know the side their on are the bad guys (Bonus points that Camus and Lorenz came from the same Kingdom! Lorenz is suppose to be a older more wizen Camus who doesn't blind himself with his knightly Honor! Hell Tauroneo from Path of Radiance is an EXCELLENT example as similar to Ike's father Greil, his old rival! They were the OLD generation of Four Riders of Daein! Tauroneo was the opposite of Gawain (Greil original ID) that while Greil still had his family till death seperated them (Elena his wife dying by his hand accidentally, and him dying to Zelgius/BK) Tauroneo was so focused on his work that his family LEFT HIM! Similar to Greil and Byrce (also same generation as them, Byrce is the ONLY one of the Four Riders in Path of Radiance story who is a past generation and still active! Tauroneo kind of sat out the war till Ike came crashing through Daein) he DOES acknowledge Ashnard for the POS psycho that he is that never should have become Daein's King! Unlike Byrce though (who is Path of Radiance's "Camus") Tauroneo realizes that he has to take matters into his own hands. Even if he can't harm Ashnard in the final battle! He makes it clear that he is WILLING to bear the title KINGSLAYER if it meant ENDING Ashnard's madness! Unlike Byrce who only fought for Ashnard in the end for the protection of the bloodline (if only he knew about Soren being Ashnard's Heir....Pity) Funny enough Ashnard is HAPPY with this response being his usual self as unlike Byrce who you can tell he dislikes for "just following orders" Tauroneo like Gawain chose to openly defy him (As we remember, Ashnard cares only about Battle! He can care less if he FALLS in battle as he is INSANELY attached to his philosophy of survival of the fittest) Mauvier, similar to Lorenz DOES focus on what is RIGHT then any loyality he felt for the Hounds! Which is Veyle's safety akin to how Lorenz priorities the safety of the Twin Prince and Princess heirs to his Kingdom, sadly dying to Marth defending them but not before revealing to him "the REAL reason why Lang and Hardin have Marth hunting him in the first place" in Mystery/New Mystery. Mauvier also acknowledges his past sins and works to do what is right REGARDLESS of other's opinions of him along with looking out for Veyle and Marni! Even his FELL Xenologue self while still mostly him unaltered, feels alot like the him you see AFTER he defects to your side! Telling as in his universe, Veyle dying pointlessly caused him to defect from Sombron SOONER and being the one to form the Winds as a force of good! Frankly unlike Mauvier who wasn't able to make a big impact in the group sans Marni and only AFTER Zephia threw her away In a way each of the Hounds fit many of the Antagonist Archetypes well known in the series! Looked at Tv Tropes and noted Marni was under Michalis and found it funny and almost dismissed it till I remembered that in a way she DID fit, her ambitions are to be praised and will do anything for it, but she does have the "Noble Demon" part of the Michalis as she DOES reflect on Veyle's situation once she knows about the "Truth of the Fell Princess" and similar to ORIGINAL Michalis in Mystery of the Fire Emblem! She dies pretty much doing the right thing that helps the heroes in beating the bad guys! In Marni's case, damaging Sombron's Helmet on Veyle which allowed Alear and later Veyle herself to fight off the "Fell Princess" Personalities control over Veyle's body (Alear via BEATING her up, and Veyle by taking advantage of the CHINK Marni made) Plus it is funny seeing how Mauvier and Marni are almost ALWAYS fought together! Seeing how Mauvier is Camus till his defection where he becomes Lorenz! Camus and Michalis were always meant to be two sides of the coin! The Good Guy fighting for the Bad Guys & The Bad Guy who does have pretty noble reasons for their actions (As Michalis was, he only cared about his kingdom's prosperity! You got fucked over and your not one of his people "Too bad for you) Griss was an interesting Kempf! Honestly I think he was kind of the ONLY Kempf other then Caellach who you could somewhat SYMPATHIZE with....but not to much to seperate him from a Villain (The Kempf's after all were never meant to be liked! Basically take what makes MICHALIS interesting, but REMOVE the Noble Demon part, and you have a IRREDEMABLE villain MEANT to be a threat to be DEFEATED and feel satisfied beating, right there next to the "Jiol" seriously I want to see a good Jiol archetype again, it's been a long time since LEKAIN from Radiant Dawn that we had a relevant Jiol! Maybe I'll give Kotaro some credit as he IS an ambitious NOBLE being the ruler of his own country ready and willing to betray allies for power! Similar yet different from Kempf's) His actor played him good. I did like how there was some justification for him being a "Sage" (You expect Sage's to be "Smart", then you look at this Punk dude and almost think him a brute till he DOES show he's smarter then he looks! Even loses Celica to you on PURPOSE just to confirm you're identity as he and Zephia figure it out pretty quickly with what info they have and of course the hanging question of "when did Lumera have a child?" Hell when you think on it, losing Celica wasn't that bad for them because no matter what "you have to come to THEM and Sombron to get Marth back" which means "you'll be bringing the other 11 rings with you" so they as in SOMBRON gets what he wants either way! And your right! Zephia and Griss DID get what they wanted almost everytime! Even when Alear came back to life and killed them! Zephia still gets what she wanted! Alear's chance to sabotage Sombron was DOOMED because of one of the Pillers being inaccessible without Time Travel! If Alear and Veyle died fighting them, that's that! If they won! Zephia used the last of her life force to give them the ability to get to the Piller if only to get back at Sombron because as said in the Video! Zephia did pretty much EVERYTHING and even Mauvier made it clear in a support that if Sombron wasn't around, she'd have been the Big Bad (Thankfully not! You know how RARE "Medeus" get to have much screen time LOL! Only one I can think of is Fomortiis and Loptous! The times Lyon and Juilius were at their craziest, the story made it CLEAR especially with Lyon that it was "Fomortiis/Loptous" in control! Hell Fomortiis through Lyon was both the GHARNEF AND MEDEUS of Sacred Stones (Riev was pretty much his "Veld") as he conspired to free HIMSELF using Lyon body to do so! Lyon DID fight back, but it was a losing battle and his weak will to his insecurities made things even HARDER for Lyon to resist Fomortiis tempting offers) So I can see why she would be PEEVED as she knew Sombron wasn't going to keep his promise to her even HAD she won (We know he was going to leave Elyos! So she got PLAYED HARD) it's only too late from Griss that she HAD the family she wanted and RUINED IT! I think even SHE acknowledged Sombron was a BAD influence as her calling Veyle a "Defect" felt more like Sombron was talking through her! As she said though, watching him murder his own children and such low care of them must have been VERY soul crushing, even if she wasn't close to them! (Her remembering Alear fondly even if she didn't DIRECTLY remember them till AFTER discovering the truth of them did show she DID have some form of care, just not enough) I mean you saw PAST Alear who was BROKEN by being forced to watch. Will agree! I do like Fun villains like the Hounds! I get those whining about these's types! But lets be serious! This is like John Wick where if he had shown up in the point where Male Lead Action Movies were at their height, I do not believe it would have garnered the large amount of success and fame that it has compared to when it came out when "Too many Girl Boss Female Lead Action Movies" were outstaying their welcome that it was successful do to FEELING like something not seen in a LONG while. It's why I actually LIKE Sombron as a villain
What, no Heroes representatives? I mean, I know it's a mobile game, but it has a surprisingly decent roster of villains: Veronica, who's gone from villain, to reluctant antihero, to a protagonist; Surtr, A pyromaniacal conqueror who's a genuinely threatening presence; Líf, who is basically N from Xenoblade Chronicles 3, but came first; Eitri, who technically succeeded in her goals and even posthumously sent you, the summoner, a video saying that she pretty much won anyway and questions your morals with all the Heroes you control; Letizia, A political mastermind; and Embla, an antisocial introvert who happens to be a god.
I don't follow the main story of Heroes that much. I only learn about it from reading the wiki. If I'm gonna tackle it, I will most likely need a collaborator with more experience on it than I do.
Very good list, Count Shaman! I pretty much agree with you on most things, even if I haven't played some of the modern games. While I'm one of those fans who loves Edelgard, I can understand why a lot of people can't get behind her as a Hero or just straight-up don't like her. As a villain, she does stand out pretty well. And Rhea does too; both of these ladies work so well against each other, that it frustrates me to the point of why the developers had to add the Agarthans at all just for the sake of copying Kaga's homework or fear that that they needed villains to drive the plot forward; if it wasn't for them, the game would've been SO much better. Either fully commit to the "everyone is morally gray" part, or don't make anyone morally at all. Also, Count Gregoire von Varley is such a slimeball that I can't help but love him for being so unapologetically terrible. And getting to use best girl Bernadetta against her (and seeing him slowly turn out like his daughter) is so satisfying to hear and watch. To quote Apu from The Simpsons: "Ha! Now you know how it feels!". If I had to add someone to the list from Heroes (even though you don't play the story in Heroes), I would say so far my favorite villains would be Freyja, her father Njörðr, and of course, Gullveig. Honestly, I think the Book VII villains are so well-written along with Freyja that they're pretty underappreciated. Sure, the mobile game Heroes has a lot of flaws with its writing and storytelling (mostly that it's just too short), but I think they handled the villains of Book VII (Njörðr and Gullveig) pretty well, at least so far.
"Hey. That's hell you're walking into" "No, this is what you forgot. I'll admit, it started out as just revenge But at the core of it all... was a whis A wish for this hell to be undone... A wish to save everyone from the crest system Something so simple, so beautiful..." "Even iif that life... is that of a tyrant? A war moniker? A murderer?" "Yeah... even if is a path drowning in blood... I will become the ruler of Fodlan, the Flame Emperor" "It was entrusted to you. The Crest. The Empire." "I see... the Crest of Flames! Then, that's why..." "My very being..." "Damn you..." "...is an axe."
I genuinely do not get the hate for Edelgard, since you can find her to be a compelling villain even if you don’t support her actions at all! Her motivations are believable but they do not excuse her actions or make them right, simple as that!
Yeah, they don't like that he's not a completely deplorable hate sink, because they can't comprehend that a character can be a terrible person and still have depth.
What are you thoughts on *SPOILERS FOR ENGAGE’S DLC* Nil/Rafal if you played that yet? As well as the alternate Four Hounds (aka the Four Wolves) found in that route?
Haven't touched Fell Xenologue yet. I'll get to it soon since I do need to know enough of it for a later video. I did spoil myself of Rafal though so whatever.
15:35 There's a whole lot more to Arvis than that. His mother left out of guilt after his father committed suicide after learning of her affair with another man, despite him himself having multiple affairs, leaving Arvis as the head of the house at age seven with only Azelle as his sole family, add onto the fact that if his heritage to Loptus that gave birth to Julius got out, he would’ve been burnt at the stake. Yes, he didn’t suffer as much as Edelgard, but Arvis is far more than your giving him credit for.
Oh I'm fully aware of everything Arvis is. That includes the part where he doesn't act like he cares about being blackmailed and still brags how he's gonna "save the world". The results make Luigi 's efforts to win Mario Party look like Cinderella in comparison.
Honestly, I think Rhea is the true main villain of Fire Emblem Three Houses instead of being a secondary villain, because if you think about it, all of the things that happened in Three Houses happened because of Rhea. Like she was the reason for Edelgard’s descent into villainy, and Edelgard’s motives are understandable and justified. Like when I saw Rhea for the first time, I made a promise to do the Church of Seiros storyline LAST because I didn’t feel like siding with her. Like there should be a rule that if a video game character looks very nice and seems to be on your side, then said video game character could definitely be the main villain, and I have a few examples of that trope like Volo from Pokémon Legends Arceus being the true main villain or Rhea from Fire Emblem Three Houses.
A funny thing is Zephia STILL won in the end, since her final plan amounted to fucking Sombron over once she FULLY realized he never planned on fulfilling his promise to give her a child and yeah, by Endgame, Sombron was ready to LEAVE Elyos (and fuck it over ROYALLY one last time, not out of spite, but simply cause he just didn't care what the aftermath would cause) so yeah, Zephia RIGHTFULLY suspected that she got PLAYED! But her final plan was helping Alear kill Sombron! Without her, Alear wouldn't have been able to reach the Fell Dragon Shard in Past Recollections and in the end they KILL Sombron. So her final plan worked out, only reason she didn't die without regrets is because she only realized to late before Griss dies that she DID have her family, she was just SO attached to her TUNNEL VISION that she failed to at least ACCEPT it till it was GONE with Griss dying before her and REGRETING Marni's death (meaning she DID acknowledge Mauvier was right about her in the end) What makes it funny is Zelestia's ending pretty much means there WERE surviving Mage Dragons and she found a family of "Similar race like herself" which she ended up being Matriarch to, And she's WEAK compared to the Average Fell Dragon as she says herself. So yeah Power really did Zephia no good in the end Now Griss I agree with you on! I realized he was a UNHOLY (in a good way) combination of the Kempf AND Michalis archetype! He is a Kempf in being a POS, but the Michalis part is he lasted as long as one, was dangerous as ONE AND he fit what that type entail! An Asshole who is a DICK to everyone BUT has a redeeming quality in that they CARE about those close to them! In his case Zephia which I loved how SIMILAR and more HEALTHY it's shown with their counterparts Zelestia and Gregory (Gregory made me laugh since I was like, Wow, Salem from Thracia 776 it's been a long time! Tell me he's not Salem with his background of having RAN from the Cult that would have KILLED HIM for NOT BEING CRAZY AS THEY ARE!) Griss looks at Zephia. I also liked his rare SERIOUS moments, like him rightfully SCOLDING Marni and Mauvier for losing Roy and Micaiah since unlike HIS example with Celica, he was AIMING to lose her just to get the info he needed AND knew one way Alear would HAVE to come to them, bringing ALL the rings to them as Alear DID need to get Marth back! And that feels like Griss did it BECAUSE of Marni's fuck up meaning he might as WELL since they're left with ONLY Celica at that point with Fell Princess Veyle holding onto Marth! So might as WELL give it to Alear, they'd be taking them ALL off them soon enough! As much as he ACTS like he was AVOIDING Alear following him too soon back to Lythos. He likely still remembered Marni and Mauvier would still be around and MAYBE they'd lead Alear to them, so in essence he didn't give AWAY where they were and can push the blame on those two! Only time he loses his cool is when Alear DARES to pity him and insinuate that Zephia is controlling him and he isn't doing what she wants of his own free will. His end was ALOT more Michalis in that he at least GETS a decent bittersweet death by Zephia side in the end Compared to a Kempf who always meet a pretty gruesome pathetic fate fitting how much of a HATE Sink they are. Compared to Sombron who dies alone as he lived his life as he acknowledges! He pushed everyone away, so he got what he wanted! Honestly when you think on it, ALL the major villains of Engage BUT Sombron and Fell Princess Veyle got dignified bittersweet deaths. They have those who MOURN them! Like Hyacinth with his daughters and even his kingdom, Marni from Mauvier, even Zephia starts to regret her death, and Zephia and Griss mourn the other's death! But Fell Princess was ALWAYS Vile with everyone, and ultimently was what Alear FEARED turning into themselves as she ENJOYED causing suffering and death for the EVULZ, something Sombron didn't indulge in, oh he can ENJOY killing someone, but they have to be WITHIN the confines of his plans or simply PISSED him off. Alear received SPECIAL attention ONLY because they were his bio child and DARED bared their fangs (Sword) against him and so as a Defect must DIE by his hand! And even at the end, surviving and still being a PEST caused him to PAUSE just to let them catch up so he could kill them HIMSELF before he leaves Elyos for good! And that's ONLY out of respect because of his TWISTED World view and NOT because he's proud of them as his child (Veyle was the only one to get that respect from him in his twisted way) But otherwise he doesn't waste time with sadism. Fell Princess on the other hand made it her MISSION to kick every DOG she came across for the EVULZ and when you think about it, she was more a FIGUREHEAD then a leader seeing how Zephia called ALOT of the shots and ONLY gave her lip service BECAUSE she is Sombron's daughter and so representative as you can see she GREATLY respected Alear with how she remembered them ALOT MORE then she did Sombron's other kids, meaning she DID enjoy being under their leadership and we ALL know how Alear was like back then when they were FULL Fell Dragon! I mean Fell Princess Plans to steal the rings ONLY worked twice because the first time, Lumera was ALREADY on death's DOOR, and note she had the DRACONIC Crystal with her, got to wonder how many times did LUMERA beat her before Alear factored victory for her as she had to rewind! And the second was Alear underestimating the situation and not HEEDING Marth's warning, hence the loss! She then proceed to UNDERESTIMATE Alear GREATLY and by the time they fought again in Firene, she got her ASS whooped and lost LEIF n the process and later SIGURD. Hell at best she was BAIT to get Alear to come back to Lythos and it was SOMBRON who took the rings, she pitifully lost and Marth was ALMOST retrieved back! Not to mention Sombron never CARED that she would die from the ambush
@@autisonm It really isn't. It's just character-assassination for every character not named Edelgard, and even then she isn't free of it in Dimitri's route.
One problem with the Edelgard section. she isn't being tricked by the Argathans she knows they are Evil and wants to stand against them, the problem is they have complete control of the Adrestian Empire meaning if she went against them before getting taking control of the Empire the Agarthans would have gotten rid of her and she wouldn't have been in a position to do anything about either the Agarthans or the church you can also see that she is working against the Agathans post time skip as well including, 1. keeping Rhea alive to use as a check against the Agarthans 2. Hubert giving the location of the Agarthan base to Claude/Byleth in VW/SS to finish them off after Edelgard's defeat also for the Arianrhod situation, there is an arguable reason for Edelgard to lie. at that point they are headed towards Fhirdiad to confront Dimitri and Rhea so suddenly revealing to everyone that the ones they are working with are also doing awful things would have made some of them question what they are doing and hurt morale which would have made the current mission for them harder
The issue isn't that she lied, it's that she doesn't make up for it. It's just vaguely left to exposition. I can't take her seriously if they don't actually show her fight the Agarathans and avenge Arianrhod. It's like playing a Mario game that ends at World 7 and it just tells you that you beat World 8.
@@CountShaman It's outright confirmed that Edelgard goes and eradicates TWSITD afterward. So she already makes up for it. Just because you don't get to see it doesn't mean it didn't happen.
@@CountShaman Just like how in AM, you also don't learn about TWSITD at all. Or how in VW, you don't even have Claude tell you the truth about himself but leave it vague. Not even learning his name. And in SS, neither Dimitri nor Claude mattered at all, and for some reason, Nemesis doesn't show up. It's not a CF-exclusive thing. That's why 3Hopes tried to do things differently. Overall, your argument is rather weak, and rather biased.
@@0axis771 Not really, it just shows how rushed 3 Houses is as a whole because they don't focus on what they should. I only draw attention to Crimson Flower, but it really is an issue that permeates the entire game. Dimitri, Claude and the church's paths just has more things resolved compared to Edelgard's, because you actually fight the real enemies there.
I actually don't want Griss to be recruitable. Just because a villain is cool, doesn't mean the main characters should be allowed to befriend them, nor should they come back to life for it. I really hate that they do that with Awakening, and I was worried the do it with the Hounds too, especially since the Hounds are actually appealing. The Winds make the Hounds recruitable while being their own separate thing. I thought it was funny, so I'm not terribly mad, especially since people can ignore them from the canon if they want to.
Sombron and Veyle though, or should I say "The Fell Princess" which is what I call the Personality that is the Antagonistic Veyle you face in the story! Were interesting in their own unique way! Veyle because I really didn't see her being the one who killed Lumera coming, I beat myself over the head in Chapter 10 when it was revealed it was her! All the hints were there, and I'm use to seeing the obvious. But I take it more to the Actress ability to switch between the two personalities and change voice tone and intentions well that I didn't suspect her of being the one who attacked Lythos back in Chapter 3 and killed Lumera! Almost assumed the GOOD Veyle was fake till I noticed her not being able to FULLY remember some of her meetings with Alear. I also liked how intially she was dismissal to Alear, especially back in Lythos! To full on wanting to kill them sadistically! Even Sombron at his worst was a "do it quickly" type and not waste time! And it was interesting seeing how her view of Alear changes as she finds out more about them and they constantly get in her way! Especially when she discovered their relation! Now Alear's relation to them I loved because it was something I HATED Fates for not doing with Anankos and Lilith in which they were Corrin's ONLY biological relatives (Father and younger Half Sister! Notice what I.S. did there with Sombron and Veyle LOL) Frankly Sombron is WEAK because he does suffer "Medeus" syndrome BADLY compared to Ashera (who had two games of decent enough setup) as an example! But I do like how similar to Alear we know little to NOTHING about Sombron, only he is the bad guy and we have to stop him, but as Alear learns more and More about Sombron personally, Alear kind of stops seeing them as a Generic bad guy and just someone too dangerous to let continue to move about as he wished! Even after discovering their relations! Alear only gets ABIT invested beyond the usual in stopping him! It's only AFTER they get their full memories back and MEET their past self before the lost of memories that it TRULY because Personal to Alear to stop him! I did like their vs. Banter, especially when Last Engage got to the good part of the song that fit well with Alear pretty much THROWING Sombron's attempt to declare them irrelevent by pointing out his major flaw! That he NEVER learns from his mistakes! He just keeps repeating them and repeating them! People keep saying Alear should have let Sombron leave! But after everything he's done and their many dead siblings by his hands and what he did to Lumera, their TRUE Parent, Corrupting her! No way was Alear just LETTING him walk away! Sombron was generic with some uniqueness! But I felt he worked well in how he existed for the character development of Alear and Veyle! The Final Battle was essentially Alear and Veyle finally severing their connection to Sombron for good by ending him! Easy or No! I do feel the final battle was fitting Story wise like Idunn! It symbolized just how powerful the Siblings have become that he is no longer this SCARE entity! Sombron is different from Grima, he isn't a GOD. Just a POWERFUL Dragon like Lumera was! As Naga said back in Awakening! She doesn't count herself a God because she doesn't have the power of creation......something Anankos and Sothis have as First Dragons (Sothis might as well be one! Anankos created Lilith in the same manner Sothis created the first generation Nabateans and Seiros/Rhea/Immaculate One! From their body/blood) Sombron at best can raise the dead, but so can Veyle and possibly Alear (who likely FORGOT about that power with all the TRAUMA they suffered due to the Corrupted) but he's not a god and neither were Lumera! They simply only allowed worship because the humans revered them and Lumera rewarded this by helping and aiding them! While Sombron only EXPLOITED his followers And yeah I agree, I loved Saturday morning Cartoons! Yeah some stuff WAS cringe in Engage! But not enough compared to "FATES" and I would rate the story "Average-Above Average" It was a good story, not the greatest (That would be Genealogy, and Path of Radiance in my opinion!) but still workable and I'll take one COMPLETED if Average story over "Four Routes that I have to complete to get the whole story, but each route is different levels of Below Average to BAD" (This is mostly FATES, Rating the story of that games routes! Birthright is top because Average, Conquest DOES suffer, so it's the weakest and Revelations switches between GOOD stuff and BAD stuff! Something Birthright didn't suffer! And I love Conquest by the way, including it's story as TRYING! But facts are facts. Three Houses though DID annoy me at times, but I did like the characters, and the story was working for me....mostly Dimitri and Claude's routes! Edelgard I loved because it was a BETTER Conquest storyline that we were DENIED! Even if short) But yeah, If they bring back "Routes" I like them to be ROUTES like it was in "Thracia 776 and Binding Blade" where you get a FEW chapters different then another set before returning to the "middle of the road" from the split!
Nobody talk about Three Hopes Dimitri ? While Byleth was hyped up as the game's main villain, it's effectively Dimitri who's the main villain for most of the game and is the main focus of the story, even outside of his own route.
Some personal comments I have on a couple of entires, primarily Houses since I haven't played the other games. 4. Hoo boy, Edelgard. While personally, I consider her more of an anti-villainess at her worst and anti-heroine at her best (neither a heroine nor a villainess in any case), plus I'm a mostly Edelgard supporter, it's no surprise she'd make the list. Although, one correction: she got her info on the supposedly true history from her family, not the Agarthans. Her dialogue makes that clear. But yeah, that Arianrhod lie is one of the few things I disagree with El on. I feel she should have keep the truth from the common army but reveal it to those who were told of the Arianrhod secret attack in advance. Or the game should have made it clear the lie is a temporary one. But yeah, personal biases aside, I was surprised to see her at number 4 and not the top 3. 2. Even more of a hoo boy, Rhea. Seeing how El made the list, it makes sense to include Rhea. And boy do I severely, severely, severely disagree with Rhea and want to punch her in the face. The apparent fact that Three Houses and most of Three Hopes say Rhea must be removed from power says a lot. That being said, I don't necessarily hate her. It's more so I have complicated, complicated feelings on her like with Akechi from Persona 5 Royal and Shigure and Akito from the Fruits Basket reboot. Still, I can say like those complicated characters, Rhea has an excellent English VA, Cherami Leigh (aka Best P5R Girl Makoto). But yeah, don't expect me to root for Rhea anytime soon. And when it comes to having to kill other students or Rhea, I definitely don't feel bad killing Rhea even if I can agree with keeping her alive but ousted out of power permanently. 1. Berkut - yeah I haven't played Echoes, but I've seen enough footage to convince me he's an excellent villain and one of the best things of Echoes.
As for the true history, I wouldn’t be surprised if it was the Agarthians that gave her family that history to begin with. Or it could be that Rhea never told the first emperor everything and he had to fill in the blanks himself, or it could be a bit of both. That’s always been my speculation.
@@joegreen3802 It's likely the First Emperor was involved in the creation of the false History with Rhea, but only knew the truth about the parts he was involved in and the story he past on was the truth based on what he did know also possible some of it was from the Agarthians assuming she believed what they told her because it matched up with the Emperors story, but also filled in some of the gaps with their own lies about Rhea and the church
@@ShadowMasterLuigi That sounds very likely. Kind of like a game of telephone. XD I would imagine though that the whole "Sothis betrayed Nemesis" part wasn't made by Rhea.
sorta sad that Yatsufusa Hatanaka, and by extension Mirage Gharnef, from the spin off Tokyo mirage sessions FE#, . a genuinely smart villain, not one of the "im being manipulated secretly" set plays the fool till the time is right. Admittedly from what i recall, he doesn't have a deep motivation. but he is a dark mirror to itsuki, where itsuki has a good relationship with his mirage, Hatanaka doesn't, that's not to say it dosn't work, they aren't friends but Hatanaka and Gharnef Mirage don't double cross each other because they legitimately want the same thing, and it's not power otherwise this alliance would have fallen through. in the end Hatanaka gives all his power to Gharnef to try and thwart the heroes reconizing them a s a threat. heck even when done with the boss fight( a good one in my opinion), and the heroes seem to win it turns out, they loose. becasue Gharnef takes away the last page of the script that could stop the final boss. Legitimately leaving the heroes with "that was our only hope, what do we do now?" (bonus points to the final boss who actually sees the heroes as a threat, and pulls what is arguably one of the smartest moves in the entire franchise no i won't spoil it, but damn, talk about not ignoring the danged threat)
I mean edelgard has a few years left to live and three hipes proves that Claude would have started the war if edelgard hadn’t. Rhea’s poor leadership was crumbling all of fodlan which had separated 3 times and had a terrible divide that only led to more hate and division. Edelgard is the definition of ends justify the means. She will do anything to get the outcome that she believes will save fodlan because she literally has nothing to lose.
I approve of this ranking, but I feel like making a quick correction. Hyacinth didn't pick a fight with Brodia, Brodia had been invading Elusia for years. The only reason Alear opposes Hyacinth is because they raided the Emblem vault.
Edelgard is also the relative of rhea because rhea beared the first emperors child and I wish the church route had the three house leaders fight twsitd instead the leaders also have a true ending where everyone gets what they want and rhea actually tells them all her secrets.
@@Hilversumborn Yeah, I believe it was something like she didn't care about titles as long as she was able to be with him, and unfortunately he cares so much about titles that's what happened.
Gotta admit. I clicked on this video just to see where you would put Edelgard, cuz I agree with you fully that she’s great as a villain but horrible as a hero. I just rushed through Crimson Flower just to get it done and over with. But I didn’t expect Rhea to be on this list. Like damn, I knew that she was evil, but to be higher up than Edelgard? Damn. . .
I don't rate these antagonists based on how evil they are, but how much I like them as such. Rhea is higher than Edelgard because I find that she has less issues with her character than Edelgard. Both of them are not what I would call traditional villains, but Rhea at least got across her unique concept as an antagonist well.
I understand your reasoning for Edelgard to see her as a villain but there's a issue with your reasoning. A lot of people tend to overlook that some of her actions come from Hubert. She didn't want to side with the Agarthans but it was his idea and she didn't have a choice. People often seem to forget to include this. Hopes also shows Edelgard in a better light to show most of her events happened because of circumstances. She actually betrays them being fully aware of what they do. Though she loses most of her military power she is also more open and also does come to a agreement with Claude in hopes forming a pact. Edelgard does know what she's doing but several of her acts end up happening due to circumstances working against her. Hopes shows what Edelgard wanted to do but Houses held her back due to Rhea making Byleth a professor. There's a lot more I can cover for Edelgard that you can just make a entire video on her.
Some of them do but most don't. For instance, the entire reasoning for starting the war was just stupid as lorewise she's actively blaming the bystander for Fodlan's problems (the lore reveals that the Crest system came into existence before the Central Church was founded, and that the three countries are ruled by humans). Edelgard's own route has her do the exact things that she accused Rhea of, but the game doesn't allow her to be called out on it or confronted on it. Her route should honestly have been the most sober, but it was strangely the happiest one of the three. Hopes does better because it just did away with her hypocrisy.
Gonna *REALLY* disagree with Veyle & Hyacinth. Engage *really* struggles with its characters, but its villains even moreso, and just because they're not as bad as the Hounds, doesn't mean they're even close to good, let alone better than Mustafa & Fernand.
Didn’t play the black eagles route, but I did watch someone play it, and tldr, the end feels like you just helped the villian win and you just got the bad ending (a feeling reinforced when you see that the fan wiki calls the crest of flames the game’s Fire Emblem)
Oh no not the Edelgard apologists in the comment section, Engage was already released, move on people- If there is anything to take from deeply flawed experience of three houses, it's that trauma doesn't excuse terrible actions. As for me, I really dislike 3H and it's villains. Agarthans are engage villains put in setting too serious for their own good, Edelgard is laughable on 2 paths as you have no connection to her but game acts like you do despite only making her act smug throughout academy and Rhea... Barely gets time to be the villain whatsoever with usually disappearing from the game untill the very end, exception being Crimson Flower - the shortest path in the game where we destroy everything she ever cared about which makes me feel more sad for her than 90% of Black Eagles. Including Edelgard. Engage Villains are saturday cartoon villains - they can be great fun, you just shouldn't take it too seriously, liike many people appeareed to do. But approaching every game in series as tonally, scale and gameplay wise diverse is silly. Shadows of Valentia getting recognition always makes me smile - Imo it's the game with best voice acting in the series and Berkut is the shining example of that, his screams and derangement as the darkest foil of Alm always gives me chills. Definitely one of the best additions in fire emblem remake, ever.
15:23 Ok, I think the Arvis slender is a bit too unjustified & unbiased at this point I get not liking him, but calling him a spoiled, self-righteous manchild who thinks he knows better than everyone, only to then make a joke about his mom leaving is kinda disingenuous... Especially considering what *actually* to him & what he had to deal with. (With the Mitsuki Ōsawa Manga doing an excellent job adapting said events) As for the Edelgard joining the Agarthans controversy, i think it's important to keep in mind that in 3 Houses, she did not have enough time to prepare for her 5-year-long war campaign, which in turn meant she didn't have the man power to do what she needed to do. Because of that, she HAD to get help from the Agarthans. (something she initially refused to do, by the way. & We know we can trust Hubert's word on that since he has no reason to lie to Byleth, & by extension, the player, about Edelgard's true colors in Crimson Flower) But in 3 Hopes, she IS able to fight the war without the Agarthan's help. Why? Because she was able to get the time needed to *prepare* for said war, 2 whole years to be exact & as we saw in 3 Hopes, The Adrestian Army became *really* powerful on its own, something that couldn't happen in 3 Houses due to the limited free time Edelgard had in comparison. But even then, it's clear that in 3 Houses that this isn't the same case as Arvis (IE: The Dark Cult manipulates & *blackmails* the Emperor, then screws them over once the Emperor thinks he's safe.) The Agarthans may *think* it's like that, but in reality, it's not. This is clearly a *"Once I'm done with the BIG problem, you guys are next!"* kind of relationship. Ok, with all of *THAT* aside, i can't lie. I really enjoyed both this & the other 2 FE Villains videos. Despite disagreeing on some points, i definitely admire how honest & upfront you can be. Keep up the good work
@CountShaman Oh yeah, despite my defenses, Crimson Flower is still not very good. Being rushed as hell aside, i still can't get behind why Edelgard decided to hide the truth of Arianrhod from her classmates. I understand hiding that fact from the army since most of them are foot soldiers... But her new personal generals? To her *friends?!...* I personally felt that it kinda went against what Pre-Timeskip CF was trying to do with Edelgard, if I'm being honest.
I don't think I'm being diseingenuous about Arvis. He gets painted as some super tragic guy when literally everyone else in Jugdral went through so much worse than him, yet we're supposed to just be okay with him killing them all for his own goals. He acts like he's gonna save the world, but chickens out at being blackmailed by Manfroy, so he ends up spending 10 years not actually doing anything fruitful until his son gets brainwashed and cries over how he "didn't see it coming", even though Manfroy straight up told him what his plan is. So yes, I do think he's self-righteous and stupid as hell, and I have yet to see any argument solid enough to convince me otherwise. I also take the Oosawa manga with a grain of salt, since a lot of stuff in it gets very questionable. I'm not justifying Edelgard's story either. Crimson Flower is terribly put together and relies too much on tell-don't-show narrative. People can elaborate on the intricacies of why her actions are justified all they want, but if all it is is exposition, then I'm not convinced it's a mark of good writing or storytelling. Thanks for enjoying the lists regardless, but I stand by everything I said, even if I do think some parts in this video could've been worded better.
@@BardockSkywalkerYeah. Like I said, I'm all for a war driven protagonist, and I'd even be okay with Edelgard lying if she actually faces consequences for it. But alas, The people who made 3 Houses thought it's a good Idea to have the first route they develop not be one of the 3 houses, leaving little time for Crimson Flower to actually cook.
Edelgard is well aware that she cannot trust the Agarthans. She is just using them and waiting for the opportunity to take them out. And Edelgard is in no way blinded by her emotions. Generally really bad take but I would be here all day dissecting it all(especially the double standards).
I should have said ego instead of emotions. That reflects her behavior a lot more, but I didn't think about the fact that I mixed up the two words together. That was my bad.
Ah, yes. Trying to push the false notion that Edelgard's a villain. No, she's not. She's one of the heroes, given the fact that she has her own route and ultimately proves that she's right. Hell, even in the routes she loses, she still proves herself right because you end up doing exactly what she did and conquer Fodlan entirely and unify it.
She’s just as much a villain as Dimitri is and three hopes proves that Claude would have warred with the church over the terrible crest system if edelgard hadn’t. In 3 houses he just had no reason to since Byleth became head of the church and allied with him.
Putting Edelgard below the four casuals makes me a bit angry ngl, but besides that, great video. I also think Dimitri should’ve been included considering he is arguably even worse than Edelgard post timeskip
Edelgard’s biggest problem was that her route was rushed. Dimitri is just as much a villain as her he just had better development on why he went villainous
What villainy does Dimitri commit? What? He kills people okay and what people is it hes killing? Foreign invaders trying to rule his kingdom? Yeah what a monster
@@andrewan1225 he went on a civilian killing spree and gets his entire army killed ignoring their needs in a mad bid for revenge killing all imperials including children
I pretty much disagree with your assessment of Edelgard as morally gray character, to me she is just another Vanilla Goro Akechi for a couple of reasons. 1. The game tries to present itself as moral gray but the problem is that Rhea actions were flat justified. Rhea’s choices were to ethier stay neutral and risk thier people to be killed for thier bones and blood, go to war and kill countless people and win or risk losing or she could lie and end the war quickly. By comparison, A major criticism of the game is the game never explains why she couldn’t just ask Rhea, Dimitri or Claude to help her. The only logical conclusion is that she didn’t what thier help. 2. The people she sided (willingly mind you) are objectively cartoonish evil and are not only the caused the problem in Fodlan and indirectly created the crest system but also killed and experimented on Edelgard and her siblings. By comparison, the church did nothing wrong. 3. Edelgard new system is based on a meritocracy which is generally awful for lower classes since A. Meritocracy massively favor those with time and resources which are usually the rich who were born into wealth and it’s pretty clear that Edelgard has no plan to cripple the rich nor boost the poor. B. Merit is subjective which makes it really fragile. C. Crest themselves are a form of Merit meaning the criticism that Edelgard tosses at Rhea will show up in her system and since in some endings Edelgard dies, there will be no corrections to it and may revert back to the crest system. Basically Edelgard is a fake populist and is actually doing this to conquer fodlan. 4. Edelgard is written incredibly cold hearted to just about everyone, Black Eagle since she easily lies to them The Blue lions cast, Claude, Manuela, Flaynn, Rhea, Dimitri and especially to Byleth since she almost gets them killed several times and also indirectly got Jeralt killed and when Byleth was vulnerable, Edelgard straight up tells him to get over it and that she will not sympathize with them and because Edelgard doesn't care about commoners or friends, its hard to imagine her face any repercussions for her actions that she would actually be bothered by. Another writting problem is that she basically agree with all of the Agarthans plans to the point where she cannot avoid direct damage to her morally. Ultimately, her character to me just showcases the hypocrisy of the Fire Emblem community and how they treated Corrin, Xander and Garon and Fates in general since that game was actually more morally gray.
I actually don't completely disagree with that. The fact that I have to continuously draw attention to why it's imperative that Edelgard fight the Agarathans on-screen highlights the obvious black and white dilemma going on in 3 Houses. Every path just says if you don't take down the Agarathans, then you don't win. The same big critique Fates gets, and it applies here too, yet people don't draw attention to it because they like the game and characters too much to acknowledge it. That's why I always believe that choosing the houses is never about right and wrong, it's just about who you like more, since in the end, everyone's treated as the hero. Not even of their own story, but in general. Maybe if 3H just stop trying to copy FE4 so much (which also mishandles gray morale super hard) and let Rhea, Nemesis and Edelgard carry their own tale, the dilemma would've actually worked. Despite this, I still defend Edelgard's sympathetic qualities because I respect what the writers want to accomplish with her character. It's wonky, but still in many ways got me to care for what she goes through, which is an improvement from whatever Arvis is. That said, Arvis actually faces consequences for his gross negligence. CF Edelgard didn't, which is the one thing 3H SHOULD've taken from FE4. Also, when I say "morally grey warmonger", it was in a semi-cynical tone. I value the novelty of it, but not the full picture.
Dimitri should have been # 1 not just as best villain but best protagonist in fire emblem. But he’s totally a villain in many routes and is a soldier forced into the position of a king.
Top 15 Classic Villains : ua-cam.com/video/q9IOWw98yI4/v-deo.html
Top 10 Worst Villains : ua-cam.com/video/dU505jiH_zI/v-deo.html
Walhart casually carrying Awakening villains on his mountain sized shoulders.
Mustafa helping out too
If Walhart wasn't bogged down by piss poor battles and actually given the power to be a conqueror(Maybe having Basilio survive be a player option rather than forced) Walhart would be an EASY 9/10 villain to join the crimson ranks of Edie and Arvis
I like gangrel too. Most people don’t realize he doesn’t get redeemed. His evil led to his eventual shaming and abandonment until he’s pathetic trash that only joins Chrom to find a place to die because he’s too cowardly for suicide.
I am here for Griss appreciation. I think his VA did a great job in selling his personality and I really liked how he isn't just a one dimensional crazy villain as he has times where he acts more serious and shows that he is perfectly aware of what he's doing. That aside he's also just a really fun villain to fight
Walhart seems to be just another villain in Awakening, but I think his parallels to Echoes' characters make him a much better character. He wants to unite the continent of Valm (much like Alm and Celica) but uses ruthless force because that's what he believes in (much like Duma). He wishes to destroy the Grimleal to prevent Grima's awakening and believes he is greater than the gods (a central theme to Echoes' plot). It's also said he's similar to Alm and I believe implied to be related to him.
adding to this walhart reminds me the most of rudolf! between the red-white color scheme and their weirdly convoluted plans to fight back against a corrupt(ed) god through brute forcing their way into other nations. walhart being related to alm would also make him related to rudolf too which makes it come full circle :)
I do love Edelgard but it's so weird when people try to find excuses for her actions. Like, you can like a character who's kind of a villain, no need to try to make them look better than they are... if you think about it, trying to find comparisons for Edelgard in actual history would bring up some more than questionable people
Edelgard is definitely in the wrong by teaming with those who slither in the dark. I will not deny that her and Hubert do some DARK things. But yeah, at the end of the day, everyone is in the wrong. Yet it's up to us to choose who receives the light and our loyalty. Black Eagle Strike Force Forever!!
Best comparison I can think of is Napoleon (Tried to modernise Europe out of backward feudalism, but still was imperialist, and also very short) but as far as historical figures go Napoleon isn't really that bad, like compare him and Hitler who's worse
@@xuanathan If Napoleon had won, my country would’ve been wiped off the map and turned into a France province.
So I’m very grateful he lost.
@@xuanathan Also slavery, Napoleon brought back chattel slavery.
no its fine a germanic villain trying to wipe out a religious people who were "chosen by the goddess" is fine and not reminiscent of anything in history. Not at aaaaaall
I expect to see Intelligence Systems somewhere in this list💀
This list is for Fire Emblem villains, not Paper Mario villains.
@@CountShaman we don’t know if Guts stomps, we need to see for ourselves.
Valid@@CountShaman
the skit with berkut in his section had me laughing. that’s really how it feels!!!! i can only really tolerate that scene if i assume he’s hallucinating and there is no ghost. that does remind me the fanmade romhack sacred echoes does address what you bring up in that scene and have the cousins talk it out a little more in berkut’s final moments :)
Out of the spin-offs, one I really like is the Gharnef Mirage from Tokyo Mirage Sessions.
Probably my biggest complaint for TMS is that the heroic Mirages are pretty paper thin due to casting their memories aside. This is not the case for Gharnef, who straight up is the one Marth would've fought had TMS not been a distant sequel to FE12's bad ending.
His plan was simple: he convinced a deluded producer to follow his plans to summon Medeus without needing brainwashing and took advantage of Itsuki clearing the trials to capture Marth's soul and use it as one of the components of the ritual. His past as a failed pupil also resonates with the party, who for the most part are aspiring performers, yet they refuse to accept what Gharnef does to lash out.
Gharnef also has my favourite battle theme in the game and the hardest boss up to this point. What really seals the deal is that once he loses he uses his own soul to awaken a Medeus at full power out of spite.
My man put both Edelgard and Rhea in the villain list, fucking based 💪
YO AND HE PREFFERES RHEA, MAN YOU'RE A LEGEND
with the quality of this video i was surprised to see how small your channel following was. keep it up this was awesome!
That’s my problem with edelgard. We’re supposed to see her as sympathetic and tortured, but never once does she self actualize on her actions. Not even when you’re on her good route. Dimitri isn’t much better, but that’s because he actually does self actualize and realize he’s a murdering monster and chooses not to hide it. Edelgard just expects everyone to fawn over her even though she has dove literally nothing to improve life for herself or her people. If anything, she makes it all worse. Heck, even rhea, who is the second most selfish character in the series, realizes the wrong she’s done by the end, but has gone too far to stop on her own. This is why I ultimately quit three houses. The blue lions and golden deer ultimate redeem themselves in one facet or another, though they hardly come up smelling like roses. The eagles? Nothing. They get nothing for their sacrifices.
My thoughts exactly.
@@CountShaman Your thoughts are incredibly inaccurate. Edelgard is entirely aware of her sins and is entirely prepared to suffer for them. She's literally see's herself as a sacrifice for Fodlan. She doesn't expect anyone to fawn over her. She hides the fact she visits the graves of the fallen soldiers. It's absolute COPE or ignorance to think otherwise.
@@Trikzilla I never said she doesn't care about the people who fought with her. But the story did a poor job drawing attention to it. I know they want to emphasize how Edelgard doesn't care about glitz and glamour and just wanted to do what she can to complete her mission, including stepping down from her throne. But relegating her fight with the Agarathans as exposition gives the impression that they're not "important" to her story. All the stuff they did to her, including being the ones who stain her path with innocent blood, and they're not important enough to show being beaten to establish closure to all the sacrifices Edelgard made up to that point. The fact that no one takes issue with it DOES make it come across as her being made just to be fawned over.
This is the only counterargument I will make. Not feeding into another cycle of Edelgard debate myself.
You're really pulling a 1+1=3 argument and dipping but it's not worth the debate as you said. @@CountShaman
@Trikzilla Edelgard cares but she's also very, very, very ignorant and not really self aware. You do see some of it in CF itself with how the route has her do the same thing that she accuses Rhea of, but never gets called out on it. Blatantly making up shit that you can find out in other routes is actively not true, but again never getting called out on it in her own route. What that leaves is a chatacter who THINKS that her actions will help others but ultimately they don't and only serve the purpose of feeding her own ego. What makes it worse is if you up the lore of the Empire and realize that it has a lot of problems that are unique to itself that Edelgard tends to project onto other countries. I think this is a fine quality for a villain to have, but not a hero.
Glad to see someone else point out that both Rhea and Edelgard are in the wrong.
IMO, Rhea is a momma’s girl who never got over her death thus neglecting her responsibilities while Edelgard is using her background as an excuse to do the horrible things she does, which is never justifiable in my eyes, Casper said it best ‘It’s all about you, isn’t it!?’.
Of Engage’s villains Mauvier and Veyle are standouts for me that I really enjoyed especially Veyle.
Berkut’s mental breakdown still gives me chills, amazing performance by Ian Sinclair.
Ironic that the best villain is still tied to an older Fire Emblem game who IMO have a better rogue’s gallery than all of modern Fire Emblem put together.
I would like to pose a question. What, exactly, are Rhea's responsibilities?
@@hilgigas09 To guide the people of Fodlan like her mother did, of which she did a rather poor job to say the least, because under her Fodlan has stagnated.
Her mother put the bar too high for anyone XD@@Hilversumborn
@@HilversumbornOops, forgot to reply. I'm of the mind that as the leader of a church, specifically, her place is to provide moral support and charity. Whether or not Fodlan progresses is not her responsibility nor her right to change.
Sothis' didn't rein in Agartha and nearly ended all life on the continent, the rule of her children was too involved and caused them to be remembered as evil gods, Rhea's involvement paints her as a secret mastermind.
@@hilgigas09 Yeah but 1000 years of doing nothing but trying to bring her mother back to life, while at the same time TWSITD are scheming, sorry but that's only more proof to me that she's not up for the job.
I've always said Edelgard works better as an antagonist than she does as a protagonist
Yeah at least as an antagonist she doubles down and stick to her "necessary evil" schtick. I hate CF for trying to redeem her. They shouldn't even try. Let her be the villain. Let US be the villain. Let Byleth commit war crimes and have your entire army be appalled by their own actions but find themselves unable to stop due to some internalised sunk cost fallacy (oh god we did a horrible thing, but it's for a good cause so I have to keep at it a bit more to make this worthwhile)
@@straypaper It's definitely a cool idea that I'd be down with, but due to FE's current mainstream nature and the need to make the main character "morally appealing", it will pretty much never happen by IntSys' hands, unless they really feel like jumping the gun and surprising us.
Damn, was not expecting the Arvis slander of all things
Since you brought up Three Hopes, I'll say that Scarlet Blaze is honestly where Edelgard is at her best. That said, it's also difficult to call her a villain in that game, so yeah...
But sombron is a villain done right like thanos but didn't had enough screen time
Ooooh, this is a fun video. Most of the time when it comes to FE lists I just have to nod and smile because I've only played the modern FE games, but this was great. Spoilers for the Video
Won't comment on all of the entries, but I do have some things to add.
Iago was kind of a bland piece of bread for me and honestly I prefer Garon's almost clownish levels of evil to Iago, but he was at least intimidating in certain parts of Conquest.
I kind of wish they'd kept with Gregoire being a more menacing figure in the background. Revealing him to be a sniveling coward could've been great if they emphasized his more sinister side by putting him in a position where he was actually in control.
Hyacinth was kind of a nothing burger for me, but I do think he works well in small doses. Especially his goodbyes to Ivy and Hortensia. Veyle felt like yet another overplayed mind-control story that just stuck around longer than I liked.
Ohoho, the controversial Edelgard. I honestly do see Edelgard as both a villain and a hero depending on circumstances, but she is dragged down by the Three House writers clearly not caring about fleshing out the Crimson Flower route. Honestly, despite all of Three Hopes' problems, it really was a great addition just for how it evens the playing field for the three house leaders. Dimitri gets to have actual ideals, we see how Edelgard would act *without* the Agarthans breathing down her neck, and we get to see Claude be the scheming Machiavellian he was always meant to be. I'd actually argue that all three could be considered villains under certain circumstances.
Though, it is no understatement to say that Rhea is at least 50% the reason for all the problems in Fodlan. I'm always floored by how so many people who are for or against Rhea and/or Edelgard don't realize how similar the two are. Suffered unjustly and horrifically at the hands of malignant forces? Check. Lost their entire families forever leaving them emotionally scarred? Check. Created a new system of governance to establish order and promote their own ideals of what is "right"? Check. Comes to the conclusion that their way is the best way and is willing to use force to do so? I think that one is self-evident.
I could go for pages on pages on the complexity of both Rhea and Edelgard but I'm not here to write a TEDtalk.
Finally, and most deservingly, Berkut. Blessed by the voice of Ian Sinclair and containing some of the best written parallels with Alm. Berkut's fall is equally satisfying and heartbreaking. You can see it Berkut's character that he's *so* close to being a hero, so close to joining the right side, but he trips at every chance he gets. So obsessed with his supposed birthright and sense of pride that he devolves into madness. Which perfectly reflects the state of Duma, who is the ultimate threat of the game. SS tier writing and such a great villain.
I've always found Gangrel to be the best villain in Awakening.
Me too. Most people don’t get that he was never redeemed. He was a pathetic rat looking for a place to die and Chrom just convinced him he’d have a better chance dying with his lot.
I’d rather you saved Mustafa and convinced him to take the kingdom from Gangrel by ether instigating a coup possibly with Chrom’s help
Yeah. But then they fucked up his motivations by telling us that he did what he did because he was actually scared of Wallhart's conquest
Should Edelgard and Rhea *really* count as villains? Sure, they serve as the other's antagonist, but they aren't straight up villains. They're both main characters in their respective routes and they're more of an opposing faction leader rather than a straight up villain.
To be honest if that manipulative dark cult wasn’t in the game then everyone would’ve both protagonist and antagonist
Hyacinth? I don't know about him. But the Four Hounds were such a great group of villains in Engage.
I really love seeing them like a family of equally despicable fellas. They started off as a memorable, menacing crew... to a sort of sympathetic gang that kind of crumbled near the end of the game.
I wouldn't call them sympathetic. I do enjoy their dramatic moments in their own tragically twisted sense, but they're nothing to cry about.
@CountShaman I may have worded it wrong, I don't really feel bad for any of them, but I was kinda sad to see them go. I thought it was funny and enjoyable whenever they popped up as the bosses, but I kinda didn't want them to dissappear from the story and game in general. Thankfully, we get Mauvier and the Four Winds from the DLC
@@guydude439 Yeah, I strongly agree with that.
Zephia is literally the worst kinda like the high evolutionary from marvel
I personally am happy that Berkut is at the top on this list. From his backstory, screen time, tragic death scene & a really good voice actor, Berkut is better all other villains in SoV and that includes Jedah.
Were it not for the fact that Fire Emblem Heroes is an ongoing series as of writing, for me, Loki would have made the cut for me (so long as her final story doesn't jump the gun, that is). That said, I'm really glad that both of Engage's entries are given their spotlights. I've always had a soft spot for Saturday Morning cartoons, but those can only get so good if the villains are entertaining, and Engage delivers in spades. While it is certainly a far cry from Fire Emblem's usual standings (call it Super Robot Wars E), it's always good to see that a long-running franchise is willing to experiment with established formula, and I can't wait to see what the next game has to offer, cliche as it may be to say.
For the Worst Villains, I wonder where you'll put entries from FEH? While I've only got as far as Book III's beginning, I do know that Books V and VI have a bit of a slump when it comes to their writing. Either way, the next countdown will be as enjoyable as usual, no doubt!
Unfortunately, I'm not too well-versed with Heroes lore. I only followed the game to see what characters I can get HQ art from lol. I do like a lot of the villain designs though, and maybe once there's enough stuff to cover for that game, I will get more into it.
Also what you say about experimenting things happens to be a similar thing I already said and recorded for the next list, coincidentally lol.
Personally I found books V and VI to have much more engaging stories than most of the prior books (III is similarly good), V especially I'd say is my favorite of the lot
To be honest Veronica, Lif and Thrasir were the only three antagonists I paid attention to in Heroes. Haven't played it since Book 4.
Honestly the reason I love crimson flower so much is because we get to be the villain which is such a cool concept, I guess we got that in Conquest, but it’s Conquest so who gives a shit😂
Honestly I think Walhart is a genuinely well-conceived character, I really like his thematic parallels with Emmeryn and the fact that he also planned to stop the reincarnation of Grima. He is basically a mirror version of Chrom with the same goals but different ideals. Also he's Alm's descendant, which isn't really an impressive piece of narrative writing but is cool lore and I am a sucker for returning characters (or their descendants) between Fire Emblem games.
Also, I don't know if the Falchion that Alm used is canonically the same Falchion that Marth/Chrom used or if there are multiple divine swords of the same name floating around, but if Walhart had pulled out Alm's Falchion to fight Chrom in the climax of arc it would have literally been the coolest fucking battle in all of Fire Emblem and you can't change my mind.
I'm pretty sure that the Falchion Alm uses it's a different one from the one Marth's uses
I gotta say I don’t like Lady Rhea when you really think about it she’s like a child and thinks if her mother the Goddess can come back then everything will be alright to the point where she ignores everything else and yes she’s immortal that doesn’t mean she should let the mortals kill each other
She’s literally insane through grief.
I think she’s a near perfect tragic villain though her covering up the past two the same empire that saved her was stupid
I feel like rhea and edelgard mirror eachother. Edelgard is just a more naive rhea with less information available and they were both manipulated into hated each other
I'd put Edelgard the same tier as Rhea because she's such an overreaching part of Three Houses' conflict. It's just a shame people don't see her as the villain she actually is and people simp for strange fantasy she's 100% a hero. Rhea is a fantastic villain though because there are actually so many layers to her character that are allowed to be peeled back across the four different routes in Three Houses.
I think the best way to describe Mauvier is he's the "Lorenz" of Engage! You remember the Old Man from Shadow Dragon with the Eyepatch right? The General who started the trend of enemy generals with personalities SIMILAR to Camus, but instead they can actually be convinced to defect to your side as their not COMPLETELY blinded by "honor" to know the side their on are the bad guys (Bonus points that Camus and Lorenz came from the same Kingdom! Lorenz is suppose to be a older more wizen Camus who doesn't blind himself with his knightly Honor! Hell Tauroneo from Path of Radiance is an EXCELLENT example as similar to Ike's father Greil, his old rival! They were the OLD generation of Four Riders of Daein! Tauroneo was the opposite of Gawain (Greil original ID) that while Greil still had his family till death seperated them (Elena his wife dying by his hand accidentally, and him dying to Zelgius/BK) Tauroneo was so focused on his work that his family LEFT HIM! Similar to Greil and Byrce (also same generation as them, Byrce is the ONLY one of the Four Riders in Path of Radiance story who is a past generation and still active! Tauroneo kind of sat out the war till Ike came crashing through Daein) he DOES acknowledge Ashnard for the POS psycho that he is that never should have become Daein's King! Unlike Byrce though (who is Path of Radiance's "Camus") Tauroneo realizes that he has to take matters into his own hands. Even if he can't harm Ashnard in the final battle! He makes it clear that he is WILLING to bear the title KINGSLAYER if it meant ENDING Ashnard's madness! Unlike Byrce who only fought for Ashnard in the end for the protection of the bloodline (if only he knew about Soren being Ashnard's Heir....Pity) Funny enough Ashnard is HAPPY with this response being his usual self as unlike Byrce who you can tell he dislikes for "just following orders" Tauroneo like Gawain chose to openly defy him (As we remember, Ashnard cares only about Battle! He can care less if he FALLS in battle as he is INSANELY attached to his philosophy of survival of the fittest)
Mauvier, similar to Lorenz DOES focus on what is RIGHT then any loyality he felt for the Hounds! Which is Veyle's safety akin to how Lorenz priorities the safety of the Twin Prince and Princess heirs to his Kingdom, sadly dying to Marth defending them but not before revealing to him "the REAL reason why Lang and Hardin have Marth hunting him in the first place" in Mystery/New Mystery. Mauvier also acknowledges his past sins and works to do what is right REGARDLESS of other's opinions of him along with looking out for Veyle and Marni! Even his FELL Xenologue self while still mostly him unaltered, feels alot like the him you see AFTER he defects to your side! Telling as in his universe, Veyle dying pointlessly caused him to defect from Sombron SOONER and being the one to form the Winds as a force of good! Frankly unlike Mauvier who wasn't able to make a big impact in the group sans Marni and only AFTER Zephia threw her away
In a way each of the Hounds fit many of the Antagonist Archetypes well known in the series! Looked at Tv Tropes and noted Marni was under Michalis and found it funny and almost dismissed it till I remembered that in a way she DID fit, her ambitions are to be praised and will do anything for it, but she does have the "Noble Demon" part of the Michalis as she DOES reflect on Veyle's situation once she knows about the "Truth of the Fell Princess" and similar to ORIGINAL Michalis in Mystery of the Fire Emblem! She dies pretty much doing the right thing that helps the heroes in beating the bad guys! In Marni's case, damaging Sombron's Helmet on Veyle which allowed Alear and later Veyle herself to fight off the "Fell Princess" Personalities control over Veyle's body (Alear via BEATING her up, and Veyle by taking advantage of the CHINK Marni made) Plus it is funny seeing how Mauvier and Marni are almost ALWAYS fought together! Seeing how Mauvier is Camus till his defection where he becomes Lorenz! Camus and Michalis were always meant to be two sides of the coin! The Good Guy fighting for the Bad Guys & The Bad Guy who does have pretty noble reasons for their actions (As Michalis was, he only cared about his kingdom's prosperity! You got fucked over and your not one of his people "Too bad for you)
Griss was an interesting Kempf! Honestly I think he was kind of the ONLY Kempf other then Caellach who you could somewhat SYMPATHIZE with....but not to much to seperate him from a Villain (The Kempf's after all were never meant to be liked! Basically take what makes MICHALIS interesting, but REMOVE the Noble Demon part, and you have a IRREDEMABLE villain MEANT to be a threat to be DEFEATED and feel satisfied beating, right there next to the "Jiol" seriously I want to see a good Jiol archetype again, it's been a long time since LEKAIN from Radiant Dawn that we had a relevant Jiol! Maybe I'll give Kotaro some credit as he IS an ambitious NOBLE being the ruler of his own country ready and willing to betray allies for power! Similar yet different from Kempf's) His actor played him good. I did like how there was some justification for him being a "Sage" (You expect Sage's to be "Smart", then you look at this Punk dude and almost think him a brute till he DOES show he's smarter then he looks! Even loses Celica to you on PURPOSE just to confirm you're identity as he and Zephia figure it out pretty quickly with what info they have and of course the hanging question of "when did Lumera have a child?" Hell when you think on it, losing Celica wasn't that bad for them because no matter what "you have to come to THEM and Sombron to get Marth back" which means "you'll be bringing the other 11 rings with you" so they as in SOMBRON gets what he wants either way!
And your right! Zephia and Griss DID get what they wanted almost everytime! Even when Alear came back to life and killed them! Zephia still gets what she wanted! Alear's chance to sabotage Sombron was DOOMED because of one of the Pillers being inaccessible without Time Travel! If Alear and Veyle died fighting them, that's that! If they won! Zephia used the last of her life force to give them the ability to get to the Piller if only to get back at Sombron because as said in the Video! Zephia did pretty much EVERYTHING and even Mauvier made it clear in a support that if Sombron wasn't around, she'd have been the Big Bad (Thankfully not! You know how RARE "Medeus" get to have much screen time LOL! Only one I can think of is Fomortiis and Loptous! The times Lyon and Juilius were at their craziest, the story made it CLEAR especially with Lyon that it was "Fomortiis/Loptous" in control! Hell Fomortiis through Lyon was both the GHARNEF AND MEDEUS of Sacred Stones (Riev was pretty much his "Veld") as he conspired to free HIMSELF using Lyon body to do so! Lyon DID fight back, but it was a losing battle and his weak will to his insecurities made things even HARDER for Lyon to resist Fomortiis tempting offers) So I can see why she would be PEEVED as she knew Sombron wasn't going to keep his promise to her even HAD she won (We know he was going to leave Elyos! So she got PLAYED HARD) it's only too late from Griss that she HAD the family she wanted and RUINED IT! I think even SHE acknowledged Sombron was a BAD influence as her calling Veyle a "Defect" felt more like Sombron was talking through her! As she said though, watching him murder his own children and such low care of them must have been VERY soul crushing, even if she wasn't close to them! (Her remembering Alear fondly even if she didn't DIRECTLY remember them till AFTER discovering the truth of them did show she DID have some form of care, just not enough) I mean you saw PAST Alear who was BROKEN by being forced to watch.
Will agree! I do like Fun villains like the Hounds! I get those whining about these's types! But lets be serious! This is like John Wick where if he had shown up in the point where Male Lead Action Movies were at their height, I do not believe it would have garnered the large amount of success and fame that it has compared to when it came out when "Too many Girl Boss Female Lead Action Movies" were outstaying their welcome that it was successful do to FEELING like something not seen in a LONG while. It's why I actually LIKE Sombron as a villain
Ok I originaly expected the 4 or the 2 to be first place but yeah I agree on who is the first place
What, no Heroes representatives? I mean, I know it's a mobile game, but it has a surprisingly decent roster of villains: Veronica, who's gone from villain, to reluctant antihero, to a protagonist; Surtr, A pyromaniacal conqueror who's a genuinely threatening presence; Líf, who is basically N from Xenoblade Chronicles 3, but came first; Eitri, who technically succeeded in her goals and even posthumously sent you, the summoner, a video saying that she pretty much won anyway and questions your morals with all the Heroes you control; Letizia, A political mastermind; and Embla, an antisocial introvert who happens to be a god.
I don't follow the main story of Heroes that much. I only learn about it from reading the wiki. If I'm gonna tackle it, I will most likely need a collaborator with more experience on it than I do.
Lif was definitely better than some of these no doubt about it.
Very good list, Count Shaman! I pretty much agree with you on most things, even if I haven't played some of the modern games.
While I'm one of those fans who loves Edelgard, I can understand why a lot of people can't get behind her as a Hero or just straight-up don't like her. As a villain, she does stand out pretty well. And Rhea does too; both of these ladies work so well against each other, that it frustrates me to the point of why the developers had to add the Agarthans at all just for the sake of copying Kaga's homework or fear that that they needed villains to drive the plot forward; if it wasn't for them, the game would've been SO much better. Either fully commit to the "everyone is morally gray" part, or don't make anyone morally at all.
Also, Count Gregoire von Varley is such a slimeball that I can't help but love him for being so unapologetically terrible. And getting to use best girl Bernadetta against her (and seeing him slowly turn out like his daughter) is so satisfying to hear and watch. To quote Apu from The Simpsons: "Ha! Now you know how it feels!".
If I had to add someone to the list from Heroes (even though you don't play the story in Heroes), I would say so far my favorite villains would be Freyja, her father Njörðr, and of course, Gullveig. Honestly, I think the Book VII villains are so well-written along with Freyja that they're pretty underappreciated. Sure, the mobile game Heroes has a lot of flaws with its writing and storytelling (mostly that it's just too short), but I think they handled the villains of Book VII (Njörðr and Gullveig) pretty well, at least so far.
"Hey. That's hell you're walking into"
"No, this is what you forgot.
I'll admit, it started out as just revenge
But at the core of it all... was a whis
A wish for this hell to be undone...
A wish to save everyone from the crest system
Something so simple, so beautiful..."
"Even iif that life... is that of a tyrant? A war moniker? A murderer?"
"Yeah... even if is a path drowning in blood...
I will become the ruler of Fodlan, the Flame Emperor"
"It was entrusted to you.
The Crest. The Empire."
"I see... the Crest of Flames!
Then, that's why..."
"My very being..."
"Damn you..."
"...is an axe."
Based Fate reference
I genuinely do not get the hate for Edelgard, since you can find her to be a compelling villain even if you don’t support her actions at all! Her motivations are believable but they do not excuse her actions or make them right, simple as that!
Yep there's gonna be a Flair War when it comes to bringing up Edelgard. So better have a Flame Shield 🔥🛡 ready
Sadly you are one of the few people who kinda likes count Varley, everyone else on the fandom has a hate boner for him
Yeah, they don't like that he's not a completely deplorable hate sink, because they can't comprehend that a character can be a terrible person and still have depth.
Iago’s a professional hater, and I find that funny and entertaining especially in the context of the rest of Fates. He’s also a great unit in Heroes!
What are you thoughts on
*SPOILERS FOR ENGAGE’S DLC*
Nil/Rafal if you played that yet? As well as the alternate Four Hounds (aka the Four Wolves) found in that route?
Haven't touched Fell Xenologue yet. I'll get to it soon since I do need to know enough of it for a later video. I did spoil myself of Rafal though so whatever.
15:35 There's a whole lot more to Arvis than that.
His mother left out of guilt after his father committed suicide after learning of her affair with another man, despite him himself having multiple affairs, leaving Arvis as the head of the house at age seven with only Azelle as his sole family, add onto the fact that if his heritage to Loptus that gave birth to Julius got out, he would’ve been burnt at the stake.
Yes, he didn’t suffer as much as Edelgard, but Arvis is far more than your giving him credit for.
Oh I'm fully aware of everything Arvis is. That includes the part where he doesn't act like he cares about being blackmailed and still brags how he's gonna "save the world". The results make Luigi 's efforts to win Mario Party look like Cinderella in comparison.
Honestly, I think Rhea is the true main villain of Fire Emblem Three Houses instead of being a secondary villain, because if you think about it, all of the things that happened in Three Houses happened because of Rhea. Like she was the reason for Edelgard’s descent into villainy, and Edelgard’s motives are understandable and justified. Like when I saw Rhea for the first time, I made a promise to do the Church of Seiros storyline LAST because I didn’t feel like siding with her. Like there should be a rule that if a video game character looks very nice and seems to be on your side, then said video game character could definitely be the main villain, and I have a few examples of that trope like Volo from Pokémon Legends Arceus being the true main villain or Rhea from Fire Emblem Three Houses.
A funny thing is Zephia STILL won in the end, since her final plan amounted to fucking Sombron over once she FULLY realized he never planned on fulfilling his promise to give her a child and yeah, by Endgame, Sombron was ready to LEAVE Elyos (and fuck it over ROYALLY one last time, not out of spite, but simply cause he just didn't care what the aftermath would cause) so yeah, Zephia RIGHTFULLY suspected that she got PLAYED! But her final plan was helping Alear kill Sombron! Without her, Alear wouldn't have been able to reach the Fell Dragon Shard in Past Recollections and in the end they KILL Sombron. So her final plan worked out, only reason she didn't die without regrets is because she only realized to late before Griss dies that she DID have her family, she was just SO attached to her TUNNEL VISION that she failed to at least ACCEPT it till it was GONE with Griss dying before her and REGRETING Marni's death (meaning she DID acknowledge Mauvier was right about her in the end) What makes it funny is Zelestia's ending pretty much means there WERE surviving Mage Dragons and she found a family of "Similar race like herself" which she ended up being Matriarch to, And she's WEAK compared to the Average Fell Dragon as she says herself. So yeah Power really did Zephia no good in the end
Now Griss I agree with you on! I realized he was a UNHOLY (in a good way) combination of the Kempf AND Michalis archetype! He is a Kempf in being a POS, but the Michalis part is he lasted as long as one, was dangerous as ONE AND he fit what that type entail! An Asshole who is a DICK to everyone BUT has a redeeming quality in that they CARE about those close to them! In his case Zephia which I loved how SIMILAR and more HEALTHY it's shown with their counterparts Zelestia and Gregory (Gregory made me laugh since I was like, Wow, Salem from Thracia 776 it's been a long time! Tell me he's not Salem with his background of having RAN from the Cult that would have KILLED HIM for NOT BEING CRAZY AS THEY ARE!) Griss looks at Zephia. I also liked his rare SERIOUS moments, like him rightfully SCOLDING Marni and Mauvier for losing Roy and Micaiah since unlike HIS example with Celica, he was AIMING to lose her just to get the info he needed AND knew one way Alear would HAVE to come to them, bringing ALL the rings to them as Alear DID need to get Marth back! And that feels like Griss did it BECAUSE of Marni's fuck up meaning he might as WELL since they're left with ONLY Celica at that point with Fell Princess Veyle holding onto Marth! So might as WELL give it to Alear, they'd be taking them ALL off them soon enough! As much as he ACTS like he was AVOIDING Alear following him too soon back to Lythos. He likely still remembered Marni and Mauvier would still be around and MAYBE they'd lead Alear to them, so in essence he didn't give AWAY where they were and can push the blame on those two! Only time he loses his cool is when Alear DARES to pity him and insinuate that Zephia is controlling him and he isn't doing what she wants of his own free will. His end was ALOT more Michalis in that he at least GETS a decent bittersweet death by Zephia side in the end Compared to a Kempf who always meet a pretty gruesome pathetic fate fitting how much of a HATE Sink they are. Compared to Sombron who dies alone as he lived his life as he acknowledges! He pushed everyone away, so he got what he wanted! Honestly when you think on it, ALL the major villains of Engage BUT Sombron and Fell Princess Veyle got dignified bittersweet deaths. They have those who MOURN them! Like Hyacinth with his daughters and even his kingdom, Marni from Mauvier, even Zephia starts to regret her death, and Zephia and Griss mourn the other's death! But Fell Princess was ALWAYS Vile with everyone, and ultimently was what Alear FEARED turning into themselves as she ENJOYED causing suffering and death for the EVULZ, something Sombron didn't indulge in, oh he can ENJOY killing someone, but they have to be WITHIN the confines of his plans or simply PISSED him off. Alear received SPECIAL attention ONLY because they were his bio child and DARED bared their fangs (Sword) against him and so as a Defect must DIE by his hand! And even at the end, surviving and still being a PEST caused him to PAUSE just to let them catch up so he could kill them HIMSELF before he leaves Elyos for good! And that's ONLY out of respect because of his TWISTED World view and NOT because he's proud of them as his child (Veyle was the only one to get that respect from him in his twisted way) But otherwise he doesn't waste time with sadism. Fell Princess on the other hand made it her MISSION to kick every DOG she came across for the EVULZ and when you think about it, she was more a FIGUREHEAD then a leader seeing how Zephia called ALOT of the shots and ONLY gave her lip service BECAUSE she is Sombron's daughter and so representative as you can see she GREATLY respected Alear with how she remembered them ALOT MORE then she did Sombron's other kids, meaning she DID enjoy being under their leadership and we ALL know how Alear was like back then when they were FULL Fell Dragon! I mean Fell Princess Plans to steal the rings ONLY worked twice because the first time, Lumera was ALREADY on death's DOOR, and note she had the DRACONIC Crystal with her, got to wonder how many times did LUMERA beat her before Alear factored victory for her as she had to rewind! And the second was Alear underestimating the situation and not HEEDING Marth's warning, hence the loss! She then proceed to UNDERESTIMATE Alear GREATLY and by the time they fought again in Firene, she got her ASS whooped and lost LEIF n the process and later SIGURD. Hell at best she was BAIT to get Alear to come back to Lythos and it was SOMBRON who took the rings, she pitifully lost and Marth was ALMOST retrieved back! Not to mention Sombron never CARED that she would die from the ambush
Putting edelgard on the thumbnail for villains is very brave my friend
What can I say, it gets me the views lmao
Because of Joshscorcher’s Top 10 characters we are suppose to hate and redeemed characters, I might try Fire Emblem 3 Houses and 3 Hopes.
They're definitely worth it, especially for having arguably the best cast in all of Fire Emblem and one of the best casts in gaming.
Avoid Three Hopes like the plague, but Three Houses is a great game.
@@Hawkatana Why avoid Three Hopes? It's a great game.
@@autisonm It really isn't. It's just character-assassination for every character not named Edelgard, and even then she isn't free of it in Dimitri's route.
@@Hawkatana I'm not sure what you mean by character-assassination. Also, it's probably one of the better Warriors games gameplay wise.
You got a remember Musso FE3 houses is a side story to the main story of FE3 houses
One problem with the Edelgard section. she isn't being tricked by the Argathans she knows they are Evil and wants to stand against them, the problem is they have complete control of the Adrestian Empire meaning if she went against them before getting taking control of the Empire the Agarthans would have gotten rid of her and she wouldn't have been in a position to do anything about either the Agarthans or the church
you can also see that she is working against the Agathans post time skip as well including, 1. keeping Rhea alive to use as a check against the Agarthans 2. Hubert giving the location of the Agarthan base to Claude/Byleth in VW/SS to finish them off after Edelgard's defeat
also for the Arianrhod situation, there is an arguable reason for Edelgard to lie. at that point they are headed towards Fhirdiad to confront Dimitri and Rhea so suddenly revealing to everyone that the ones they are working with are also doing awful things would have made some of them question what they are doing and hurt morale which would have made the current mission for them harder
The issue isn't that she lied, it's that she doesn't make up for it. It's just vaguely left to exposition. I can't take her seriously if they don't actually show her fight the Agarathans and avenge Arianrhod. It's like playing a Mario game that ends at World 7 and it just tells you that you beat World 8.
@@CountShaman It's outright confirmed that Edelgard goes and eradicates TWSITD afterward. So she already makes up for it. Just because you don't get to see it doesn't mean it didn't happen.
@@0axis771 Then I don't need to play the game, I'll just read a wiki. Same difference.
@@CountShaman Just like how in AM, you also don't learn about TWSITD at all. Or how in VW, you don't even have Claude tell you the truth about himself but leave it vague. Not even learning his name. And in SS, neither Dimitri nor Claude mattered at all, and for some reason, Nemesis doesn't show up.
It's not a CF-exclusive thing.
That's why 3Hopes tried to do things differently.
Overall, your argument is rather weak, and rather biased.
@@0axis771 Not really, it just shows how rushed 3 Houses is as a whole because they don't focus on what they should. I only draw attention to Crimson Flower, but it really is an issue that permeates the entire game. Dimitri, Claude and the church's paths just has more things resolved compared to Edelgard's, because you actually fight the real enemies there.
i hope one day they remaster awakening and fates for the switch or switch 2
imagine a convention. 10 Girl on a table. all talking how cool griss is and how we got robbed with whatever tf gregory is
I actually don't want Griss to be recruitable. Just because a villain is cool, doesn't mean the main characters should be allowed to befriend them, nor should they come back to life for it. I really hate that they do that with Awakening, and I was worried the do it with the Hounds too, especially since the Hounds are actually appealing. The Winds make the Hounds recruitable while being their own separate thing. I thought it was funny, so I'm not terribly mad, especially since people can ignore them from the canon if they want to.
@@CountShamanSimple example:
If Mustafa was recruitable, he wouldn’t have left the memorable impact that he has.
Well at least number 4 was improved in Three Hopes, right?
to me, the relationship between Arvis and Edelgard is the reverse, Arvis was the one in the right and Edelgrad was the one who did it wrong
Sombron and Veyle though, or should I say "The Fell Princess" which is what I call the Personality that is the Antagonistic Veyle you face in the story! Were interesting in their own unique way! Veyle because I really didn't see her being the one who killed Lumera coming, I beat myself over the head in Chapter 10 when it was revealed it was her! All the hints were there, and I'm use to seeing the obvious. But I take it more to the Actress ability to switch between the two personalities and change voice tone and intentions well that I didn't suspect her of being the one who attacked Lythos back in Chapter 3 and killed Lumera! Almost assumed the GOOD Veyle was fake till I noticed her not being able to FULLY remember some of her meetings with Alear. I also liked how intially she was dismissal to Alear, especially back in Lythos! To full on wanting to kill them sadistically! Even Sombron at his worst was a "do it quickly" type and not waste time! And it was interesting seeing how her view of Alear changes as she finds out more about them and they constantly get in her way! Especially when she discovered their relation!
Now Alear's relation to them I loved because it was something I HATED Fates for not doing with Anankos and Lilith in which they were Corrin's ONLY biological relatives (Father and younger Half Sister! Notice what I.S. did there with Sombron and Veyle LOL) Frankly Sombron is WEAK because he does suffer "Medeus" syndrome BADLY compared to Ashera (who had two games of decent enough setup) as an example! But I do like how similar to Alear we know little to NOTHING about Sombron, only he is the bad guy and we have to stop him, but as Alear learns more and More about Sombron personally, Alear kind of stops seeing them as a Generic bad guy and just someone too dangerous to let continue to move about as he wished! Even after discovering their relations! Alear only gets ABIT invested beyond the usual in stopping him! It's only AFTER they get their full memories back and MEET their past self before the lost of memories that it TRULY because Personal to Alear to stop him! I did like their vs. Banter, especially when Last Engage got to the good part of the song that fit well with Alear pretty much THROWING Sombron's attempt to declare them irrelevent by pointing out his major flaw! That he NEVER learns from his mistakes! He just keeps repeating them and repeating them! People keep saying Alear should have let Sombron leave! But after everything he's done and their many dead siblings by his hands and what he did to Lumera, their TRUE Parent, Corrupting her! No way was Alear just LETTING him walk away! Sombron was generic with some uniqueness! But I felt he worked well in how he existed for the character development of Alear and Veyle! The Final Battle was essentially Alear and Veyle finally severing their connection to Sombron for good by ending him! Easy or No! I do feel the final battle was fitting Story wise like Idunn! It symbolized just how powerful the Siblings have become that he is no longer this SCARE entity! Sombron is different from Grima, he isn't a GOD. Just a POWERFUL Dragon like Lumera was! As Naga said back in Awakening! She doesn't count herself a God because she doesn't have the power of creation......something Anankos and Sothis have as First Dragons (Sothis might as well be one! Anankos created Lilith in the same manner Sothis created the first generation Nabateans and Seiros/Rhea/Immaculate One! From their body/blood) Sombron at best can raise the dead, but so can Veyle and possibly Alear (who likely FORGOT about that power with all the TRAUMA they suffered due to the Corrupted) but he's not a god and neither were Lumera! They simply only allowed worship because the humans revered them and Lumera rewarded this by helping and aiding them! While Sombron only EXPLOITED his followers
And yeah I agree, I loved Saturday morning Cartoons! Yeah some stuff WAS cringe in Engage! But not enough compared to "FATES" and I would rate the story "Average-Above Average" It was a good story, not the greatest (That would be Genealogy, and Path of Radiance in my opinion!) but still workable and I'll take one COMPLETED if Average story over "Four Routes that I have to complete to get the whole story, but each route is different levels of Below Average to BAD" (This is mostly FATES, Rating the story of that games routes! Birthright is top because Average, Conquest DOES suffer, so it's the weakest and Revelations switches between GOOD stuff and BAD stuff! Something Birthright didn't suffer! And I love Conquest by the way, including it's story as TRYING! But facts are facts. Three Houses though DID annoy me at times, but I did like the characters, and the story was working for me....mostly Dimitri and Claude's routes! Edelgard I loved because it was a BETTER Conquest storyline that we were DENIED! Even if short) But yeah, If they bring back "Routes" I like them to be ROUTES like it was in "Thracia 776 and Binding Blade" where you get a FEW chapters different then another set before returning to the "middle of the road" from the split!
Nobody talk about Three Hopes Dimitri ? While Byleth was hyped up as the game's main villain, it's effectively Dimitri who's the main villain for most of the game and is the main focus of the story, even outside of his own route.
Three Hopes Dimitri is scary AF and a cool ass villain.
Edelgards 3 Hopes route fixes a lot of problems.
At the start of the game I was crushing on Berkut.... oh silly former me 😂😂😭
Some personal comments I have on a couple of entires, primarily Houses since I haven't played the other games.
4. Hoo boy, Edelgard. While personally, I consider her more of an anti-villainess at her worst and anti-heroine at her best (neither a heroine nor a villainess in any case), plus I'm a mostly Edelgard supporter, it's no surprise she'd make the list. Although, one correction: she got her info on the supposedly true history from her family, not the Agarthans. Her dialogue makes that clear. But yeah, that Arianrhod lie is one of the few things I disagree with El on. I feel she should have keep the truth from the common army but reveal it to those who were told of the Arianrhod secret attack in advance. Or the game should have made it clear the lie is a temporary one. But yeah, personal biases aside, I was surprised to see her at number 4 and not the top 3.
2. Even more of a hoo boy, Rhea. Seeing how El made the list, it makes sense to include Rhea. And boy do I severely, severely, severely disagree with Rhea and want to punch her in the face. The apparent fact that Three Houses and most of Three Hopes say Rhea must be removed from power says a lot. That being said, I don't necessarily hate her. It's more so I have complicated, complicated feelings on her like with Akechi from Persona 5 Royal and Shigure and Akito from the Fruits Basket reboot. Still, I can say like those complicated characters, Rhea has an excellent English VA, Cherami Leigh (aka Best P5R Girl Makoto). But yeah, don't expect me to root for Rhea anytime soon. And when it comes to having to kill other students or Rhea, I definitely don't feel bad killing Rhea even if I can agree with keeping her alive but ousted out of power permanently.
1. Berkut - yeah I haven't played Echoes, but I've seen enough footage to convince me he's an excellent villain and one of the best things of Echoes.
As for the true history, I wouldn’t be surprised if it was the Agarthians that gave her family that history to begin with. Or it could be that Rhea never told the first emperor everything and he had to fill in the blanks himself, or it could be a bit of both. That’s always been my speculation.
@@joegreen3802 It's possible Rhea didn't tell her ally the truth of her personal grudge.
@@joegreen3802 It's likely the First Emperor was involved in the creation of the false History with Rhea, but only knew the truth about the parts he was involved in and the story he past on was the truth based on what he did know
also possible some of it was from the Agarthians assuming she believed what they told her because it matched up with the Emperors story, but also filled in some of the gaps with their own lies about Rhea and the church
@@ShadowMasterLuigi That sounds very likely. Kind of like a game of telephone. XD
I would imagine though that the whole "Sothis betrayed Nemesis" part wasn't made by Rhea.
Definitely agree with the whole Rhea thing. If I had to choose who to kill of between Edelgard and Rhea, than Rhea every time.
I think that Fernand is kinda a demo for Ferdinand
sorta sad that Yatsufusa Hatanaka, and by extension Mirage Gharnef, from the spin off Tokyo mirage sessions FE#, . a genuinely smart villain, not one of the "im being manipulated secretly" set plays the fool till the time is right.
Admittedly from what i recall, he doesn't have a deep motivation. but he is a dark mirror to itsuki, where itsuki has a good relationship with his mirage, Hatanaka doesn't, that's not to say it dosn't work, they aren't friends but Hatanaka and Gharnef Mirage don't double cross each other because they legitimately want the same thing, and it's not power otherwise this alliance would have fallen through.
in the end Hatanaka gives all his power to Gharnef to try and thwart the heroes reconizing them a s a threat. heck even when done with the boss fight( a good one in my opinion), and the heroes seem to win it turns out, they loose. becasue Gharnef takes away the last page of the script that could stop the final boss. Legitimately leaving the heroes with "that was our only hope, what do we do now?"
(bonus points to the final boss who actually sees the heroes as a threat, and pulls what is arguably one of the smartest moves in the entire franchise no i won't spoil it, but damn, talk about not ignoring the danged threat)
I mean edelgard has a few years left to live and three hipes proves that Claude would have started the war if edelgard hadn’t. Rhea’s poor leadership was crumbling all of fodlan which had separated 3 times and had a terrible divide that only led to more hate and division. Edelgard is the definition of ends justify the means. She will do anything to get the outcome that she believes will save fodlan because she literally has nothing to lose.
I agree that Edelgard's a villain... and I also agree that what she does is unapologetically evil.
I approve of this ranking, but I feel like making a quick correction. Hyacinth didn't pick a fight with Brodia, Brodia had been invading Elusia for years. The only reason Alear opposes Hyacinth is because they raided the Emblem vault.
Hyacinth still wanted sovereign blood to sacrifice to Sombron, so he would've wanted to pick a fight with Morion anyway.
@@CountShaman True. It's more of the why being explained though.
Thanks for respecting the opinions of Edelgard’s fans. That definitely makes your entry of her a FAR better entry than Greenscorpion’s entry on her.
Edelgard is also the relative of rhea because rhea beared the first emperors child and I wish the church route had the three house leaders fight twsitd instead the leaders also have a true ending where everyone gets what they want and rhea actually tells them all her secrets.
I hate Edelgard. She’s a better villain than MC
At least Three Hopes was much better for Edelgard as protagonist.
Poor Rinea
She tried to make Berkut feel better, instead she unintentionally became the straw that broke the camel’s back.
@@Hilversumborn Yeah, I believe it was something like she didn't care about titles as long as she was able to be with him, and unfortunately he cares so much about titles that's what happened.
Gotta admit. I clicked on this video just to see where you would put Edelgard, cuz I agree with you fully that she’s great as a villain but horrible as a hero. I just rushed through Crimson Flower just to get it done and over with. But I didn’t expect Rhea to be on this list. Like damn, I knew that she was evil, but to be higher up than Edelgard? Damn. . .
I don't rate these antagonists based on how evil they are, but how much I like them as such. Rhea is higher than Edelgard because I find that she has less issues with her character than Edelgard. Both of them are not what I would call traditional villains, but Rhea at least got across her unique concept as an antagonist well.
I understand your reasoning for Edelgard to see her as a villain but there's a issue with your reasoning.
A lot of people tend to overlook that some of her actions come from Hubert. She didn't want to side with the Agarthans but it was his idea and she didn't have a choice. People often seem to forget to include this. Hopes also shows Edelgard in a better light to show most of her events happened because of circumstances. She actually betrays them being fully aware of what they do. Though she loses most of her military power she is also more open and also does come to a agreement with Claude in hopes forming a pact. Edelgard does know what she's doing but several of her acts end up happening due to circumstances working against her. Hopes shows what Edelgard wanted to do but Houses held her back due to Rhea making Byleth a professor. There's a lot more I can cover for Edelgard that you can just make a entire video on her.
That sounds like an invitation to hell, and I'd rather not take it.
Some of them do but most don't. For instance, the entire reasoning for starting the war was just stupid as lorewise she's actively blaming the bystander for Fodlan's problems (the lore reveals that the Crest system came into existence before the Central Church was founded, and that the three countries are ruled by humans). Edelgard's own route has her do the exact things that she accused Rhea of, but the game doesn't allow her to be called out on it or confronted on it. Her route should honestly have been the most sober, but it was strangely the happiest one of the three.
Hopes does better because it just did away with her hypocrisy.
Gonna *REALLY* disagree with Veyle & Hyacinth. Engage *really* struggles with its characters, but its villains even moreso, and just because they're not as bad as the Hounds, doesn't mean they're even close to good, let alone better than Mustafa & Fernand.
veyle was really bad as a villain, and honestly the hounds are just as bad imo. Idk how he finds the hounds entertaining tbh.
Didn’t play the black eagles route, but I did watch someone play it, and tldr, the end feels like you just helped the villian win and you just got the bad ending (a feeling reinforced when you see that the fan wiki calls the crest of flames the game’s Fire Emblem)
EVIL VEYLE BEST WAIFU!
Oh no not the Edelgard apologists in the comment section, Engage was already released, move on people-
If there is anything to take from deeply flawed experience of three houses, it's that trauma doesn't excuse terrible actions.
As for me, I really dislike 3H and it's villains. Agarthans are engage villains put in setting too serious for their own good, Edelgard is laughable on 2 paths as you have no connection to her but game acts like you do despite only making her act smug throughout academy and Rhea... Barely gets time to be the villain whatsoever with usually disappearing from the game untill the very end, exception being Crimson Flower - the shortest path in the game where we destroy everything she ever cared about which makes me feel more sad for her than 90% of Black Eagles. Including Edelgard.
Engage Villains are saturday cartoon villains - they can be great fun, you just shouldn't take it too seriously, liike many people appeareed to do. But approaching every game in series as tonally, scale and gameplay wise diverse is silly.
Shadows of Valentia getting recognition always makes me smile - Imo it's the game with best voice acting in the series and Berkut is the shining example of that, his screams and derangement as the darkest foil of Alm always gives me chills. Definitely one of the best additions in fire emblem remake, ever.
15:23 Ok, I think the Arvis slender is a bit too unjustified & unbiased at this point
I get not liking him, but calling him a spoiled, self-righteous manchild who thinks he knows better than everyone, only to then make a joke about his mom leaving is kinda disingenuous... Especially considering what *actually* to him & what he had to deal with. (With the Mitsuki Ōsawa Manga doing an excellent job adapting said events)
As for the Edelgard joining the Agarthans controversy, i think it's important to keep in mind that in 3 Houses, she did not have enough time to prepare for her 5-year-long war campaign, which in turn meant she didn't have the man power to do what she needed to do. Because of that, she HAD to get help from the Agarthans. (something she initially refused to do, by the way. & We know we can trust Hubert's word on that since he has no reason to lie to Byleth, & by extension, the player, about Edelgard's true colors in Crimson Flower)
But in 3 Hopes, she IS able to fight the war without the Agarthan's help. Why? Because she was able to get the time needed to *prepare* for said war, 2 whole years to be exact & as we saw in 3 Hopes, The Adrestian Army became *really* powerful on its own, something that couldn't happen in 3 Houses due to the limited free time Edelgard had in comparison. But even then, it's clear that in 3 Houses that this isn't the same case as Arvis (IE: The Dark Cult manipulates & *blackmails* the Emperor, then screws them over once the Emperor thinks he's safe.) The Agarthans may *think* it's like that, but in reality, it's not. This is clearly a *"Once I'm done with the BIG problem, you guys are next!"* kind of relationship.
Ok, with all of *THAT* aside, i can't lie. I really enjoyed both this & the other 2 FE Villains videos. Despite disagreeing on some points, i definitely admire how honest & upfront you can be. Keep up the good work
@CountShaman Oh yeah, despite my defenses, Crimson Flower is still not very good. Being rushed as hell aside, i still can't get behind why Edelgard decided to hide the truth of Arianrhod from her classmates. I understand hiding that fact from the army since most of them are foot soldiers... But her new personal generals? To her *friends?!...* I personally felt that it kinda went against what Pre-Timeskip CF was trying to do with Edelgard, if I'm being honest.
I don't think I'm being diseingenuous about Arvis. He gets painted as some super tragic guy when literally everyone else in Jugdral went through so much worse than him, yet we're supposed to just be okay with him killing them all for his own goals. He acts like he's gonna save the world, but chickens out at being blackmailed by Manfroy, so he ends up spending 10 years not actually doing anything fruitful until his son gets brainwashed and cries over how he "didn't see it coming", even though Manfroy straight up told him what his plan is. So yes, I do think he's self-righteous and stupid as hell, and I have yet to see any argument solid enough to convince me otherwise. I also take the Oosawa manga with a grain of salt, since a lot of stuff in it gets very questionable.
I'm not justifying Edelgard's story either. Crimson Flower is terribly put together and relies too much on tell-don't-show narrative. People can elaborate on the intricacies of why her actions are justified all they want, but if all it is is exposition, then I'm not convinced it's a mark of good writing or storytelling.
Thanks for enjoying the lists regardless, but I stand by everything I said, even if I do think some parts in this video could've been worded better.
@@BardockSkywalkerYeah. Like I said, I'm all for a war driven protagonist, and I'd even be okay with Edelgard lying if she actually faces consequences for it. But alas, The people who made 3 Houses thought it's a good Idea to have the first route they develop not be one of the 3 houses, leaving little time for Crimson Flower to actually cook.
@@CountShaman Unfortunately... Also, why did you post the first reply twice? Was that a glitch or something?
@@BardockSkywalker It's a glitch, I think
Edelgard is well aware that she cannot trust the Agarthans. She is just using them and waiting for the opportunity to take them out. And Edelgard is in no way blinded by her emotions.
Generally really bad take but I would be here all day dissecting it all(especially the double standards).
I should have said ego instead of emotions. That reflects her behavior a lot more, but I didn't think about the fact that I mixed up the two words together. That was my bad.
Ah, yes. Trying to push the false notion that Edelgard's a villain. No, she's not. She's one of the heroes, given the fact that she has her own route and ultimately proves that she's right. Hell, even in the routes she loses, she still proves herself right because you end up doing exactly what she did and conquer Fodlan entirely and unify it.
She’s just as much a villain as Dimitri is and three hopes proves that Claude would have warred with the church over the terrible crest system if edelgard hadn’t. In 3 houses he just had no reason to since Byleth became head of the church and allied with him.
@@firenze6478 The term you're looking for is antagonist.
@@0axis771 yeah, sorry. My lunch break had just ended so I was in a hurry
the 4 hounds are honestly neither fun nor entertaining, they are just boring. Not to mention how they all have just 1 personality trait.
Putting Edelgard below the four casuals makes me a bit angry ngl, but besides that, great video. I also think Dimitri should’ve been included considering he is arguably even worse than Edelgard post timeskip
Edelgard’s biggest problem was that her route was rushed. Dimitri is just as much a villain as her he just had better development on why he went villainous
What villainy does Dimitri commit? What? He kills people okay and what people is it hes killing? Foreign invaders trying to rule his kingdom? Yeah what a monster
@@andrewan1225 he went on a civilian killing spree and gets his entire army killed ignoring their needs in a mad bid for revenge killing all imperials including children
@@andrewan1225I think they means Dimitri not just kills his enemies but torture them with a smile on his face
@@marinusboon104 and we stan!
I pretty much disagree with your assessment of Edelgard as morally gray character, to me she is just another Vanilla Goro Akechi for a couple of reasons.
1. The game tries to present itself as moral gray but the problem is that Rhea actions were flat justified. Rhea’s choices were to ethier stay neutral and risk thier people to be killed for thier bones and blood, go to war and kill countless people and win or risk losing or she could lie and end the war quickly. By comparison, A major criticism of the game is the game never explains why she couldn’t just ask Rhea, Dimitri or Claude to help her. The only logical conclusion is that she didn’t what thier help.
2. The people she sided (willingly mind you) are objectively cartoonish evil and are not only the caused the problem in Fodlan and indirectly created the crest system but also killed and experimented on Edelgard and her siblings. By comparison, the church did nothing wrong.
3. Edelgard new system is based on a meritocracy which is generally awful for lower classes since A. Meritocracy massively favor those with time and resources which are usually the rich who were born into wealth and it’s pretty clear that Edelgard has no plan to cripple the rich nor boost the poor. B. Merit is subjective which makes it really fragile. C. Crest themselves are a form of Merit meaning the criticism that Edelgard tosses at Rhea will show up in her system and since in some endings Edelgard dies, there will be no corrections to it and may revert back to the crest system. Basically Edelgard is a fake populist and is actually doing this to conquer fodlan.
4. Edelgard is written incredibly cold hearted to just about everyone, Black Eagle since she easily lies to them The Blue lions cast, Claude, Manuela, Flaynn, Rhea, Dimitri and especially to Byleth since she almost gets them killed several times and also indirectly got Jeralt killed and when Byleth was vulnerable, Edelgard straight up tells him to get over it and that she will not sympathize with them and because Edelgard doesn't care about commoners or friends, its hard to imagine her face any repercussions for her actions that she would actually be bothered by. Another writting problem is that she basically agree with all of the Agarthans plans to the point where she cannot avoid direct damage to her morally.
Ultimately, her character to me just showcases the hypocrisy of the Fire Emblem community and how they treated Corrin, Xander and Garon and Fates in general since that game was actually more morally gray.
I actually don't completely disagree with that. The fact that I have to continuously draw attention to why it's imperative that Edelgard fight the Agarathans on-screen highlights the obvious black and white dilemma going on in 3 Houses. Every path just says if you don't take down the Agarathans, then you don't win. The same big critique Fates gets, and it applies here too, yet people don't draw attention to it because they like the game and characters too much to acknowledge it.
That's why I always believe that choosing the houses is never about right and wrong, it's just about who you like more, since in the end, everyone's treated as the hero. Not even of their own story, but in general. Maybe if 3H just stop trying to copy FE4 so much (which also mishandles gray morale super hard) and let Rhea, Nemesis and Edelgard carry their own tale, the dilemma would've actually worked.
Despite this, I still defend Edelgard's sympathetic qualities because I respect what the writers want to accomplish with her character. It's wonky, but still in many ways got me to care for what she goes through, which is an improvement from whatever Arvis is. That said, Arvis actually faces consequences for his gross negligence. CF Edelgard didn't, which is the one thing 3H SHOULD've taken from FE4.
Also, when I say "morally grey warmonger", it was in a semi-cynical tone. I value the novelty of it, but not the full picture.
@@CountShaman I can respect that
Dimitri should have been # 1 not just as best villain but best protagonist in fire emblem. But he’s totally a villain in many routes and is a soldier forced into the position of a king.