Man, kinda wish you had used more examples out of Bastion for this, that would've been a phenomenal example of how game-changing good dialog can be. I love these videos so much.
Zedrin It's funny that they mention that, because after replaying Bastion last year, I considered how incredibly much care must have gone into the word choice following whichever setting you apply to the bastion at the end.
FaliusAren It looks like you're sincere, so I'll try to give one. The first thing the narrator says when you gain control of the Kid: "He gets up. Sets off for the Bastion, where everyone agreed to go in case of trouble." From what is basically the very first sentence in the story, you can already figure the following: one, the titular Bastion is a place; two, because the Kid is going there, something bad must have happened; three, because people had agreed to go there, there must have been some concern among "everyone" of something bad happening. Note that it was "agreed to go" in stead of something like "knew to go" meaning a threat was more active. With one sentence, (in addition to the broken land you see around you) this suggests that something possibly apocalyptic might have happened that affected many, many people.
+Julio Francisco Gómez Stoppello Well here interesting revelations are normal, so your comment isn't interesting. That is actually a really neat way of thinking about things.
But maybe cooperative multiplayer is the solution, provided that everyone remains in character by being rewarded for consistent role play. You could have a lot of fun taking on some of the roles in Star Trek (probably not Spock though as he would be needed to tell you what you were seeing, and for similar reasons not Uhura) and leave everyone in the party to improvise.
That and also the sentence "But nobody came." It's pretty creepy all on its own, but gains new meaning and becomes even creepier as you learn WHY the sentence is as significant (and is therefore repeated) as much as it is.
replaying earthbound and mother 3 i kinda can't stop reading "but nobody came!" as it was intended for those games anymore because of undertale's creepy use of it...
I'mma practice this with some video-gamey type dialog... Default : "Use Fire on Wood" My Examples: "It's friggin' cold in here. Mind lighting a fire or something? There's some timber over there." "HUECK HUECK HUECK... LIGHT IT UP! FIRE! BURN IT! BURN ALL OF IT! DEATH TO ALL WOOD!" "Fire is good for roasting steak, burning wood, and disposing of the bodies of those who cross me. Try it out." Those are just some of mine. They aren't very good, but anyone is welcome to try.
I dunno if context is needed, I can kinda visualize what characters would be saying the lines way better than the default. First one, I kinda feel like it'd be some young soldier or companion. Second one, kinda picture more of an orc. Third one, I think of a psychopath or a bounty hunter.
I agree. Just reading out loud can help with so much, from just simple things like noticing grammar errors, to figuring out how the rhythm of the words being used feel.
I’m attempting to make a visual novel right now, and my script is probably about to undergo a massive rewrite, as some of the characters just aren’t striking the right chords with me. I’m currently planning more concretely because I need that framework, and these tips will absolutely come in handy. (Although part of the problem might be that I’ve never written a work of this scale before. I’m making a small practice project to nail the process.)
Best game changing dialogue in the history of the medium... The Elder Scrolls Oblivion, Adoring Fan "By Azura, by Azura, by Azura, it's the grand champion!!!!" See, with only this line of dialogue alone, I want to gouge my eyes out, and to throw this wood elf into the wood chipper! It evokes a deep and powerful passion inside of each and every one of us, and allows us a glimpse at Where the Red Ferns Grow sim would look like, by letting us experience taking a sick animal into the woods and putting it down. Great times!
A great tool in exposition is words that convey more meaning than they say. It's one thing to come out and state a fact, like "Our father was an alcoholic." It's another to give statements that imply a great deal more, like "Our father gave more time and money to the saloon keeper than he ever did to us." The one is very dry, very clinical; serviceable, but saying only the facts. The other provides not only the same factual information (so long as the reader is willing to give it the most cursory of thought), but also puts it in context of the Subject's relationship (or lack thereof) with his children.
Even though I don't play much or even pursue a career in the game industry, I still watch this series because a lot of the ideas addressed here aren't solely about games and have applications in other spheres. I find that some ideas are better explained through the workings of a game.
Don't Starve is a good example, I think, of how similar phrases can be said differently by different characters to convey some meaning about their personalities, beyond just whatever situation is going on. For example, Wilson (normal guy) says about his backpack that "It's for me to put my stuff in". Willow (the pyromaniac) says "I could put like a million lighters in there!" And WX-78 (the robot) says "UPGRADED STORAGE MODULE".
This whole channel may be about games and game design (Which I love to no end) But it's helped me think deeper about what I've been doing with the novel I've been writing... It helps a lot. Thank you.
This is actually very similar to the difference between Navi and Tatl in Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask. Besides the difference in their sound effects (which probably helped), Tatl just had so much more personality given to her.
Tatl was the Faery that was stuck with you, right? I prefered Navi. She maybe had less character, but her attitude wasn't as annoying. I like Wikipedia to not mock me.
An example of “bookending” I personally find moving : opening cutscene and the cutscene after you beat Cynder in Concurrent Skies (her lair) before you go to Convexity in The Legend of Spyro : A New Beginning… look it up, I’m not going to spoil anything, but keep an ear out for the phrase “May the Assessors look after you, may they look after us all…” if you hear that phrase, you’ll see exactly what I’m talking about 😉
5:31 dissonant juxtaposition = 22 not drawing out all those letters = 26 + "drawing lady" drawing = equivalent of 56 letters or so well played drawing lady, well played...
When I write my characters I usually roleplay them, get into character, get into their skin, and am them for a moment and react from their perspective. One time this worked out greatly when I had to write a conversation between two poweful spiritual entities that were thousands of years old and both represented concepts that are beyond me as a mortal, and where I am human and know little they were both supposed to be near all knowing that means that a disagreement between them (which I was trying to write) could not come from lack of knowledge nor, given their immortal, eternal and indestructible nature could opposing personal interests. Their disagreement had to be about some fundamental truth in the world. And as I went into character it was as if I got possessed by these forces and words started coming from my mouth as I kept jumping from one character to the other, I was amazed myself because to me it didn't feel like I was writing anything at all....it felt like I was there, blessed as a mere mortal to perceive this conversation between them, I felt like I had no influence in the matter at all. And their reason for argument turned out to be something I would have never come up with otherwise. The argument between keeping the status quo and universal balance for the sake of eternity or the risking of it all in order to broaden horizons and expand further. But on a multiversal scale......yeah.....I find the best way to write believable characters is this...roleplaying the characters. Good video....I disagree with some of the things you guys say in some of your videos but 70 maybe even 75% roughly estimated we seem to be on the same page. But then I guess that's just cause we all love Games and some of us also work on them. :D
Actually, the phrase "to be or not to be" does not mean that Hamlet wants to kill himself. In the beginning of the play, he says something like "I do not seem" (I don't know the exact words since I only read Hamlet in German). He speaks about being truthful, being honest. He has to play a certain role to kill his father's murderer, but that does go against him wanting to be honest. He does not seem, he IS. That's the core of "to be or not to be".
CrazedVampireGirl I wonder if tupac was referencing hamlet on purpose in 'changes': I wake up in the morning and I ask myself/is life worth living? Should I blast myself?
Thank you very much for this video! As an aspiring game designer, I was kind of stuck on just how to deliver dialogue to flesh out the story and explain certain aspects of my characters. This really helped, thank you once again!
Heck, my mother's an english/literature teacher and she's loved the stuff about characterization and narrative. A lot of EC topics have a broader applicability than just games, and to me that's a sign that this is an excellently-done little show.
Please, please make more of these writing techniques. Loved it, and really made me think. Considering I really love to write, I'd love to get more tips on this, but I happen to have very limited time to do research on it myself..
Another great example of bookending is Halo 2. A cutscene will often end with the main character arriving at or looking out over the next battlefield. Then, after the level is over, the character is often extracted or narrowly escapes. The camera, however, lingers over the battle's aftermath, or the Covenant regrouping for pursuit, or even just the burning carnage left in the Chief's wake. It brings a sense of closure to the events of that particular level and gives the player time to think about what just happened.
Every time I hear that line it just makes me cry a little. I mean, you've got Johnn DeLancie here for fuck's sake! He's Q, the voice of Discord, that really snarky flight inspector that was the only good point about that annoying plane movie I don't even remember the name of! His voice is basically worth gold when he's allowed to be snarky and humoristic about things. And you have him read lines from a plaque on the wall. WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY?
1:24 Schadenfreude (Sha-Den-Frd-Oi-D-Eh), from the German words "Schade" and "Freude", meaning "damage" and "happiness". It's basically where a person gets happiness from another's damage. Just in case anybody was wondering.
And I think this is the first Extra Credit where I haven't gone "yes, finally, someone put what I've been saying for the last 3/4ths of a decade into a catchy, fun video with a silly voice". Thank you, so very much. I actually learned something.
As someone who's been writing dialogue since last year, you should trust me when I say that this video is well-informed. Although I have no proof of said work, so you'll have to go on the honor system for this one. Even when you think the line is written correctly, simply speaking it aloud in multiple tones of voice will make you re-write it. I've even had friends speak out some lines, simply because I felt their personalities were closer to the character's own personality than my own.
I love this series. I have learned so much. I did laugh, however, when, in an episode on "word choice", in the first minute, no less, they used the phrase "pretty unique". :-) Unique means one of a kind. You can't modify it with "very" or "pretty". Common mistake. Rock on, people.
Good point. They may have been trying to tweak the pedants, like me. ;-) Ironically, I just finished The Sense of Style by Steven Pinker where he explicitly states that "very unique" and "pretty unique" are just fine and that people, like me, who complain about it are off base. His argument is pretty much like yours. So...good call! :-)
I would love it if you guys could go even more indepth with this concept, as it is something that I am trying to do myself in my D&D Campaign, and am also personally interested in. I have been watching a bunch of your videos about all sorts of gaming systems and techniques, and it has been helping me a lot with choosing what I need and what I don't need in my campaign and even the gameplay of my D&D group that I will be working with. Thank you so much!!! Love this so much!
There's great advice here for every kind of writer, not just game writers. I'm a huge advocate of efficiency and succinctness, and a number of wonderful points toward that end were covered here.
But what about in-game codexes, books and encyclopedias? I love them, and can spend most of gameplay time just bathing in their exposition, while most players seem to ignore them altogether. ME does a great job, actually, by delivering a big world through them, while not making it necessary to read them to get what's going on.
The reason (or at least I think it is) that you and other players bother to read codexes and encyclopaedia of in game lore is because the world captures your imagination and makes you curious, it makes you want to learn more about the in game world and the characters within it. If a game had a bland world and uninteresting characters would you, still be so inclined to spend time reading all the in game lore you would in a game with interesting surface level characters and an interesting world?
Ollie Taylor I do read books in Skyrim, while characters and plot are not that interesting. Actually, lore is the only strength and the most interesting thing in Skyrim. But well, you can't call the world of Skyrim bland, with its Medieval Northern nature imagery. Level design and graphics do compliment the lore of the game. But I'm also that type of person, who just love lore, world-building and stuff like that.
Actually, if you listen to enough lines in video games and other voice acted media, you start noticing a lot of places where the line was clearly meant to be read with emphasis on a certain word to make it fit, and noone seemingly told the voice actor/actress that, which makes them say the line in a completely flat manner, or even emphasize the wrong word, in some cases they even sound confused XD
The Fallout thing. "War. War never changes." This is one of the lines in video games that's had the most impact in my mind. Fallout 2 in particular. Right after witnessing the slaughter of Vault-dwellers FINALLY exiting the vault. Great opener to the second part of an amazing intro sequence.
I was particularly impressed by volume 4 of the Demonata series by Darren Shawn. They started with "Screams in the dark." and ended with that same line. It might not have much impact at the beginning, but by the end if you realize it's repeated, it really has the impact.
lol, this was some help for RP ing, i always think of what a character backstory is, the character i liked most up to this point was a character who needed to be a mage, so i made her realy enjoy using magic, and that lead to her getting the personality trade of going head fisrt into life, not looking back or forward, this became a realy fun character, while a character with a great backstory became boring after one hour, now i know why. and i can now use this to start liking a oblivion character :)
Someone needs to take an amazing Larp and turn it into a video game. The character depth is already defined over and over through the years of playing. You can easily just go on in a video game with what the actors and players were doing by themselves.
I really like the videoss where they discuss topics that don't necessarily relate entirely to video games. And this video is certainly very interesting in it's own right. You never really think of stuff like this, how different ways of saying things can affect the meaning gained from them, until somene else mentions it.
the to be or not to be speech in Hamlet is remembered because of the often forgotten grave digger. the line "yo dog I was think'n about whether I should off myself" could be a memorable line if it was delivered at just the right time and in the right context and among lines that get forgotten to make it stick.
To juxtapose is to simply place two things beside each other. Dissonance is normally a musical term to describe when it's an inharmonious sound or a combination of tones that don't make up a proper chord and sound unresolved, but can apply to other things that cause similar discomfort and unease. In this case, the pairing (juxtaposition) causes the player to pause because seeing the two together is discordant or strange (dissonant).
1:22 Do you even say "schadenfreude" in english or is it just a reference to Portal? (Havn't played it yet) It's funny to hear german words pronounced with an american dialect. xD
***** It's not really a word English has an equivalent of (I mean sadistic is kind of there but.... not really), so we've kinda just made it the word for itself. Not really a common word, but yeah xD it is just the word we use.
Written To Insanity Yeah, a bit like "awkward" doesn't have an equivalent in french. We have "gênant", but it's just not the same, it does not convey as much impracticality as awkward.
English speakers do this a lot, if we lack the appropriate word to describe something and another language contains such a word, we will just incorporate that as is, and since english has roots in almost every language due to our history the words easily fit into our dialect without sounding out of place.
To be or not to be, that is the question vs. Ah oh dawg I was thinking about whether i should axe myself. I'm leaning towards the lather as the more artistic phrase.
I love all the work you do.This theme on exposition and writing is exceptionally important. The techniques of writing and theater should be applied to game development. Anyway, awesome work, again! Given the title of the episode, and in-keeping with xkcd-386 ("Duty Calls"), I was about to criticize your use of "verbiage" in the script, but I felt prompted to look up a proper definition, and I found that it is rarely synonymous with diction, not just meaning a superfluity of words. Cool!
Man, I am such a fan of dissonant juxtaposition. I feel like what I find appealing about it is forcing people to confront that two things that you don't normally see together are part of the same world, and that that world is actually more complex than you typically think of it or act like it is. A mundane example would be the way I used to put the boxed sets of Aeon Flux and Red Green right next to each other on the shelf. Both good in very different ways. Using it as a way to take something out of its typical place and consider it in a larger context or in relationships you don't usually. Also seeing people deal with it is great fun.
ANYTHING written to sound impressive, or smart becomes pretentious. I mean, you can add all the smartly written stuff you want if it serves to educate on the character, world, story, etc. of it only serves to make your writing seem more impressive, then you have an issue
ultimateninjaboi Yes but that is why it isn't written sound impressive but instead to convey more meaning than if you would just use the most barebone statement you could find.
HPGmaphax I'm a big fan of only saying what is needed, and not flowering up narrative. That's what I meant. When you throw big words, or massive amounts of words so that it sounds smarter, you do the work a disservice. If you use the words to better convey meaning, you serve the narrative well. Character dialogue is a little different, because you're writing what the character would say. Some people speak plainly and simply, some are very good with words, and some sprinkle pretentious bull crap into their words all the time. If the character dialogue us pretentious because the speaker is, themself, pretentious, it works
im already working with my teacher to get kids in my design class to watch it. best tip, either watch it in front of the teacher or ask him/her to watch just one episode with you, the teacher will be hooked.
*applause for you* Just reading my dialog aloud to myself, I realized there was so much I should change, and it has all been worth it. I haven't even tried reading it aloud to others yet. I'd already blindly made an Alpha release with that junk, and I could never totally understand how to get my dialog to flow right.(always been more of a plot/setting/action writer... pretty much, everything else xD) VERY helpful, keep up the great work!
It's not just about paying attention to the story, it's about taking the player through the journey. Because gaming has new methods of engulfing the player in the story (not like those of books or film which have already explored and mastered), the developers have to find ways of taking advantage of that. That statement was from a developers viewpoint and though it may seem offensive, it's basically telling them to think outside of the box because games can be just as moving as film and books.
I never played Quantum Conundrum, but from the clip that was played here, I KNEW Professor Fitz's voice sounded familiar: John De Lancie. Q from Star Trek.
Axel's...not the best example. >.> His use of repetition is more of a personal quirk than anything else...though I'd argue it helps sell the artificiality of his personality, in keeping with the "Nobodies only pretend to be people" idea. For the record, I don't necessarily agree with KH in that regard, but playing a role or going 'real people act like this, right?' is something people do when they suffer from any number of mental disorders that dissociate them from "normal" behavior.
I hew to the old adage of 'if you want to write, then read.' In other words, if you want to be a good writer then you need to read - and not just good stuff either. Reading bad stuff helps you nail down bad execution and clumsy storytelling. I imagine that the same can apply to games.
Hamlet's suicide contemplation is so much better with the whole quote: "To be, or not to be. That is the question. Whether tis nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, or to take arms against a sea of troubles, and by opposing, end them. To sleep, to dream no more."
I know I felt that backstory thing when playing Saints Row Four, I hadn't played the previous games and hearing them talk to each other about all the good times they had back in those games gave them a sense of being real people, who really knew each other.
and this is why Ezio is my favourite assassin. He's not just better written but he convays his dialogue in a much more meaningful way then Altair or *shudder* Conner.
I really liked Quantum Conundrum, mostly because of John de Lancie's voice actually. The character does get some fantastic expository lines, they're just not integrated into the level instructions to the extent that Portal's are.
In reference to repetition, one of the best examples of this is Winston Churchill's "We Will Fight Them" speech. Game writers could learn a lot from great speeches, if only for better villains :D
Oddly enough, as a writer, I can't actually "write," per se. I have entire stories written in full technicolor, as it were, in my head and my head alone. I developed all my characters by acting them out and talking to myself as my characters. I'm glad I'm at least doing something productive, but I haven't actually written anything down yet. :P Also, PERSONA 3 PICTURE!!! ERMAHGERR GEEK-OUT MODE ACTIVATED! GREATEST STORY EVER TOLD BLAAAAAARRRGH!!! Thank you.
I believe EC are saying it's not whether someone is paying attention, but how _closely_ they are doing so. The Bioshock example is part of the plot twist where certain lines in the game suddenly come together. It works because a player will suddenly "get" what's happening and has to question whether Jack has had free will in the story.
I normally also do this while writing: I normally let the characters themselves take me to where they want me to write about them. It is strange to describe, but once I know for sure how a character acts, feels and speaks, including their quirks, I just let them write their own stories. And then the akward solo acting of these characters start. XD
Hey extra creditz: In my opinion you missed out on an important point: The fine line of having meaningful characterisation or stereotypical over-the-top schmalz. The dialogue in the intro of redfaction armageddon or all the lines of ssgt. Knox in Red River are prime examples. :P
It's a bit like final fantasy numbering in the U.S. and japan. It's a bit confusing and one gets them sooner. PATV gets episodes first, which are technically on youtube but do not have anything linking to them. They put it in their videos list after it's in PATV. If you want to watch the newest one in youtube, go to PATV and click the watch in youtube button.
Man, kinda wish you had used more examples out of Bastion for this, that would've been a phenomenal example of how game-changing good dialog can be.
I love these videos so much.
Zedrin It's funny that they mention that, because after replaying Bastion last year, I considered how incredibly much care must have gone into the word choice following whichever setting you apply to the bastion at the end.
So... Any examples you might want to give?
FaliusAren Examples wouldn't have much meaning. It's highly contextual. A combination of good timing, word choice, and voice acting.
Austin Bullock Well I'd still love to see some, because I didn't really see word choice as making that big of a difference in Bastion.
FaliusAren It looks like you're sincere, so I'll try to give one.
The first thing the narrator says when you gain control of the Kid: "He gets up. Sets off for the Bastion, where everyone agreed to go in case of trouble." From what is basically the very first sentence in the story, you can already figure the following: one, the titular Bastion is a place; two, because the Kid is going there, something bad must have happened; three, because people had agreed to go there, there must have been some concern among "everyone" of something bad happening. Note that it was "agreed to go" in stead of something like "knew to go" meaning a threat was more active.
With one sentence, (in addition to the broken land you see around you) this suggests that something possibly apocalyptic might have happened that affected many, many people.
Its funny that Glados is a more interesting character than most human characters.
+TeamGBplaysminecraft interesting is, sadly, not a general human trait.
+Julio Francisco Gómez Stoppello Well here interesting revelations are normal, so your comment isn't interesting. That is actually a really neat way of thinking about things.
Julio Francisco Gómez Stoppello ,Hooray for obvious things that most people don't realize.
+TeamGBDoesStuff have you played portal 1 AND 2 ?
+TeamGBDoesStuff One of the best characters ever, and not only in games. Come to think, HAL is also one of the best. A.I.s done right just rule.
"You should add multiplayer"
I LOLED HARD
But maybe cooperative multiplayer is the solution, provided that everyone remains in character by being rewarded for consistent role play. You could have a lot of fun taking on some of the roles in Star Trek (probably not Spock though as he would be needed to tell you what you were seeing, and for similar reasons not Uhura) and leave everyone in the party to improvise.
Yeah but multiplayer is not easy to add. Unless you're game starts as multiplayer it can be very costly and can take a lot of time to add multiplayer.
"Repetition"
undertale does this so well with "determination" before making it the plot twist in the endgame
That and also the sentence "But nobody came." It's pretty creepy all on its own, but gains new meaning and becomes even creepier as you learn WHY the sentence is as significant (and is therefore repeated) as much as it is.
replaying earthbound and mother 3 i kinda can't stop reading "but nobody came!" as it was intended for those games anymore because of undertale's creepy use of it...
+Marie Alexander But nobody came is from EARTHBOUND.
I'mma practice this with some video-gamey type dialog...
Default :
"Use Fire on Wood"
My Examples:
"It's friggin' cold in here. Mind lighting a fire or something? There's some timber over there."
"HUECK HUECK HUECK... LIGHT IT UP! FIRE! BURN IT! BURN ALL OF IT! DEATH TO ALL WOOD!"
"Fire is good for roasting steak, burning wood, and disposing of the bodies of those who cross me. Try it out."
Those are just some of mine. They aren't very good, but anyone is welcome to try.
We need some context to understand how to relate to the lines you wrote
Ilay Yoeli Yeah, good point.
You have burnt the shrimp.
I dunno if context is needed, I can kinda visualize what characters would be saying the lines way better than the default. First one, I kinda feel like it'd be some young soldier or companion. Second one, kinda picture more of an orc. Third one, I think of a psychopath or a bounty hunter.
Zedrin
I saw the second one as an arsonist or pyro-maniac or something along the lines of 'i enjoy setting stuff on fire'.
There are a lot of amateur visual novel writers that need to hear this...
...actually, there are a lot of *novel* writers that need to hear this.
I agree. Just reading out loud can help with so much, from just simple things like noticing grammar errors, to figuring out how the rhythm of the words being used feel.
I’m attempting to make a visual novel right now, and my script is probably about to undergo a massive rewrite, as some of the characters just aren’t striking the right chords with me. I’m currently planning more concretely because I need that framework, and these tips will absolutely come in handy. (Although part of the problem might be that I’ve never written a work of this scale before. I’m making a small practice project to nail the process.)
Best game changing dialogue in the history of the medium...
The Elder Scrolls Oblivion, Adoring Fan
"By Azura, by Azura, by Azura, it's the grand champion!!!!"
See, with only this line of dialogue alone, I want to gouge my eyes out, and to throw this wood elf into the wood chipper! It evokes a deep and powerful passion inside of each and every one of us, and allows us a glimpse at Where the Red Ferns Grow sim would look like, by letting us experience taking a sick animal into the woods and putting it down. Great times!
Skyrim tops this feeling with the whiterun preacher. only npc I use console commands to just get rid of.
Miles Beler
i quess someone stole your sweetrol
A great tool in exposition is words that convey more meaning than they say. It's one thing to come out and state a fact, like "Our father was an alcoholic." It's another to give statements that imply a great deal more, like "Our father gave more time and money to the saloon keeper than he ever did to us." The one is very dry, very clinical; serviceable, but saying only the facts. The other provides not only the same factual information (so long as the reader is willing to give it the most cursory of thought), but also puts it in context of the Subject's relationship (or lack thereof) with his children.
Even though I don't play much or even pursue a career in the game industry, I still watch this series because a lot of the ideas addressed here aren't solely about games and have applications in other spheres. I find that some ideas are better explained through the workings of a game.
Don't Starve is a good example, I think, of how similar phrases can be said differently by different characters to convey some meaning about their personalities, beyond just whatever situation is going on. For example, Wilson (normal guy) says about his backpack that "It's for me to put my stuff in". Willow (the pyromaniac) says "I could put like a million lighters in there!" And WX-78 (the robot) says "UPGRADED STORAGE MODULE".
Yep thats the perfect example
It confuses me that this comment has a "read more" prompt yet still, I can't read more.
hearing cole trains woo always brightens my day. even just once.
Prime example:
"Forgive me Father, for I have sinned."
"Sorry Daddy, I've been naughty."
I love this example so much lol
This whole channel may be about games and game design (Which I love to no end) But it's helped me think deeper about what I've been doing with the novel I've been writing... It helps a lot. Thank you.
Would you kindly.
Don't make me drag you, Mr. Bubbles!
S4R1N This little fishy looks like he just had his cherry popped.
This is actually very similar to the difference between Navi and Tatl in Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask. Besides the difference in their sound effects (which probably helped), Tatl just had so much more personality given to her.
Tatl was the Faery that was stuck with you, right?
I prefered Navi. She maybe had less character, but her attitude wasn't as annoying.
I like Wikipedia to not mock me.
An example of “bookending” I personally find moving : opening cutscene and the cutscene after you beat Cynder in Concurrent Skies (her lair) before you go to Convexity in The Legend of Spyro : A New Beginning… look it up, I’m not going to spoil anything, but keep an ear out for the phrase “May the Assessors look after you, may they look after us all…” if you hear that phrase, you’ll see exactly what I’m talking about 😉
5:31
dissonant juxtaposition = 22
not drawing out all those letters = 26
+ "drawing lady" drawing = equivalent of 56 letters or so
well played drawing lady, well played...
1:42 *_WOO!_*
The "WOO!" that freed the world
When I write my characters I usually roleplay them, get into character, get into their skin, and am them for a moment and react from their perspective. One time this worked out greatly when I had to write a conversation between two poweful spiritual entities that were thousands of years old and both represented concepts that are beyond me as a mortal, and where I am human and know little they were both supposed to be near all knowing that means that a disagreement between them (which I was trying to write) could not come from lack of knowledge nor, given their immortal, eternal and indestructible nature could opposing personal interests. Their disagreement had to be about some fundamental truth in the world. And as I went into character it was as if I got possessed by these forces and words started coming from my mouth as I kept jumping from one character to the other, I was amazed myself because to me it didn't feel like I was writing anything at all....it felt like I was there, blessed as a mere mortal to perceive this conversation between them, I felt like I had no influence in the matter at all. And their reason for argument turned out to be something I would have never come up with otherwise. The argument between keeping the status quo and universal balance for the sake of eternity or the risking of it all in order to broaden horizons and expand further. But on a multiversal scale......yeah.....I find the best way to write believable characters is this...roleplaying the characters.
Good video....I disagree with some of the things you guys say in some of your videos but 70 maybe even 75% roughly estimated we seem to be on the same page. But then I guess that's just cause we all love Games and some of us also work on them. :D
Actually, the phrase "to be or not to be" does not mean that Hamlet wants to kill himself. In the beginning of the play, he says something like "I do not seem" (I don't know the exact words since I only read Hamlet in German). He speaks about being truthful, being honest. He has to play a certain role to kill his father's murderer, but that does go against him wanting to be honest. He does not seem, he IS. That's the core of "to be or not to be".
3:04 Hey, yo, dawg! I was think'n about whether I should off myself.
lol I just lost it there. If some one said that to me just l would be like "What!? ... Yo dude you almost had me there. You funny man, you funny."
CrazedVampireGirl I wonder if tupac was referencing hamlet on purpose in 'changes': I wake up in the morning and I ask myself/is life worth living? Should I blast myself?
man, Coltrane yelling "WOO!" will always get me. "Ay yo dawg I was thinking about whether I should off myself"
Thank you very much for this video! As an aspiring game designer, I was kind of stuck on just how to deliver dialogue to flesh out the story and explain certain aspects of my characters. This really helped, thank you once again!
Heck, my mother's an english/literature teacher and she's loved the stuff about characterization and narrative. A lot of EC topics have a broader applicability than just games, and to me that's a sign that this is an excellently-done little show.
Please, please make more of these writing techniques. Loved it, and really made me think. Considering I really love to write, I'd love to get more tips on this, but I happen to have very limited time to do research on it myself..
Another great example of bookending is Halo 2. A cutscene will often end with the main character arriving at or looking out over the next battlefield. Then, after the level is over, the character is often extracted or narrowly escapes. The camera, however, lingers over the battle's aftermath, or the Covenant regrouping for pursuit, or even just the burning carnage left in the Chief's wake. It brings a sense of closure to the events of that particular level and gives the player time to think about what just happened.
Yo, dawg, I was think'n about whether I should off myself.
Every time I hear that line it just makes me cry a little.
I mean, you've got Johnn DeLancie here for fuck's sake! He's Q, the voice of Discord, that really snarky flight inspector that was the only good point about that annoying plane movie I don't even remember the name of! His voice is basically worth gold when he's allowed to be snarky and humoristic about things.
And you have him read lines from a plaque on the wall.
WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY?
Don't over use the key phrase? Use it carefully? But how are people supposed to know about how Samus feels about the Baby?
XanderTuron But samus needs authorization from adam to feel about the baby.
Actually, I think that might have been the one thing she did not need authorization for.
That represents the common gamer nowadays lol
1:24 Schadenfreude (Sha-Den-Frd-Oi-D-Eh), from the German words "Schade" and "Freude", meaning "damage" and "happiness". It's basically where a person gets happiness from another's damage. Just in case anybody was wondering.
And I think this is the first Extra Credit where I haven't gone "yes, finally, someone put what I've been saying for the last 3/4ths of a decade into a catchy, fun video with a silly voice". Thank you, so very much. I actually learned something.
Awesome episode. One of my favorites.
As someone who's been writing dialogue since last year, you should trust me when I say that this video is well-informed.
Although I have no proof of said work, so you'll have to go on the honor system for this one.
Even when you think the line is written correctly, simply speaking it aloud in multiple tones of voice will make you re-write it. I've even had friends speak out some lines, simply because I felt their personalities were closer to the character's own personality than my own.
I love this series. I have learned so much. I did laugh, however, when, in an episode on "word choice", in the first minute, no less, they used the phrase "pretty unique". :-) Unique means one of a kind. You can't modify it with "very" or "pretty". Common mistake. Rock on, people.
Good point. They may have been trying to tweak the pedants, like me. ;-) Ironically, I just finished The Sense of Style by Steven Pinker where he explicitly states that "very unique" and "pretty unique" are just fine and that people, like me, who complain about it are off base. His argument is pretty much like yours. So...good call! :-)
Lol, comment made me think about a gbay video.
6:31 i fell of my chair laughing. i love the art style and humor you guys deliver :)
I would love it if you guys could go even more indepth with this concept, as it is something that I am trying to do myself in my D&D Campaign, and am also personally interested in. I have been watching a bunch of your videos about all sorts of gaming systems and techniques, and it has been helping me a lot with choosing what I need and what I don't need in my campaign and even the gameplay of my D&D group that I will be working with. Thank you so much!!! Love this so much!
There's great advice here for every kind of writer, not just game writers. I'm a huge advocate of efficiency and succinctness, and a number of wonderful points toward that end were covered here.
But what about in-game codexes, books and encyclopedias? I love them, and can spend most of gameplay time just bathing in their exposition, while most players seem to ignore them altogether. ME does a great job, actually, by delivering a big world through them, while not making it necessary to read them to get what's going on.
The reason (or at least I think it is) that you and other players bother to read codexes and encyclopaedia of in game lore is because the world captures your imagination and makes you curious, it makes you want to learn more about the in game world and the characters within it. If a game had a bland world and uninteresting characters would you, still be so inclined to spend time reading all the in game lore you would in a game with interesting surface level characters and an interesting world?
Ollie Taylor I do read books in Skyrim, while characters and plot are not that interesting. Actually, lore is the only strength and the most interesting thing in Skyrim. But well, you can't call the world of Skyrim bland, with its Medieval Northern nature imagery. Level design and graphics do compliment the lore of the game.
But I'm also that type of person, who just love lore, world-building and stuff like that.
Actually, if you listen to enough lines in video games and other voice acted media, you start noticing a lot of places where the line was clearly meant to be read with emphasis on a certain word to make it fit, and noone seemingly told the voice actor/actress that, which makes them say the line in a completely flat manner, or even emphasize the wrong word, in some cases they even sound confused XD
Repetition huh?
"Courage is the magic that turns dreams into reality"
Ah yeah, the good old centence from Richter.^^ Recognized it even years after i completed the game.^^
1:43 Best part
Fantastic episode guys,really very well done.
4:07
I love how they animated the ball hitting the ground there.
The Fallout thing. "War. War never changes."
This is one of the lines in video games that's had the most impact in my mind. Fallout 2 in particular. Right after witnessing the slaughter of Vault-dwellers FINALLY exiting the vault.
Great opener to the second part of an amazing intro sequence.
I was particularly impressed by volume 4 of the Demonata series by Darren Shawn. They started with "Screams in the dark." and ended with that same line. It might not have much impact at the beginning, but by the end if you realize it's repeated, it really has the impact.
lol, this was some help for RP ing, i always think of what a character backstory is, the character i liked most up to this point was a character who needed to be a mage, so i made her realy enjoy using magic, and that lead to her getting the personality trade of going head fisrt into life, not looking back or forward, this became a realy fun character, while a character with a great backstory became boring after one hour, now i know why. and i can now use this to start liking a oblivion character :)
Someone needs to take an amazing Larp and turn it into a video game.
The character depth is already defined over and over through the years of playing. You can easily just go on in a video game with what the actors and players were doing by themselves.
I really like the videoss where they discuss topics that don't necessarily relate entirely to video games.
And this video is certainly very interesting in it's own right. You never really think of stuff like this, how different ways of saying things can affect the meaning gained from them, until somene else mentions it.
the to be or not to be speech in Hamlet is remembered because of the often forgotten grave digger. the line "yo dog I was think'n about whether I should off myself" could be a memorable line if it was delivered at just the right time and in the right context and among lines that get forgotten to make it stick.
To juxtapose is to simply place two things beside each other. Dissonance is normally a musical term to describe when it's an inharmonious sound or a combination of tones that don't make up a proper chord and sound unresolved, but can apply to other things that cause similar discomfort and unease. In this case, the pairing (juxtaposition) causes the player to pause because seeing the two together is discordant or strange (dissonant).
1:22
Do you even say "schadenfreude" in english or is it just a reference to Portal? (Havn't played it yet)
It's funny to hear german words pronounced with an american dialect. xD
Schadenfreude is often used when speaking English, since we have no words as concise as it (Here in England, anyway.)
***** It's not really a word English has an equivalent of (I mean sadistic is kind of there but.... not really), so we've kinda just made it the word for itself.
Not really a common word, but yeah xD it is just the word we use.
Written To Insanity Yeah, a bit like "awkward" doesn't have an equivalent in french. We have "gênant", but it's just not the same, it does not convey as much impracticality as awkward.
English speakers do this a lot, if we lack the appropriate word to describe something and another language contains such a word, we will just incorporate that as is, and since english has roots in almost every language due to our history the words easily fit into our dialect without sounding out of place.
***** And yet you still completely butcher words like "smörgåsbord" =p
Lol! Close up at MIranda's butt and dialogue highlighted as Investigate. =)
Oh, dirty you.
I really wanted to add a extra S.
To be or not to be, that is the question vs. Ah oh dawg I was thinking about whether i should axe myself.
I'm leaning towards the lather as the more artistic phrase.
Yeah but it doesn't have to be the case, if done well even the stereotypical bullshit can work...
Not sure what you mean by that... and the first is the most artistic in virtually every case. Shakespeare was genius.
Which soap are you using for that lather?
😆lol😆
I love all the work you do.This theme on exposition and writing is exceptionally important. The techniques of writing and theater should be applied to game development. Anyway, awesome work, again!
Given the title of the episode, and in-keeping with xkcd-386 ("Duty Calls"), I was about to criticize your use of "verbiage" in the script, but I felt prompted to look up a proper definition, and I found that it is rarely synonymous with diction, not just meaning a superfluity of words. Cool!
Man, I am such a fan of dissonant juxtaposition. I feel like what I find appealing about it is forcing people to confront that two things that you don't normally see together are part of the same world, and that that world is actually more complex than you typically think of it or act like it is. A mundane example would be the way I used to put the boxed sets of Aeon Flux and Red Green right next to each other on the shelf. Both good in very different ways.
Using it as a way to take something out of its typical place and consider it in a larger context or in relationships you don't usually.
Also seeing people deal with it is great fun.
5:30 - 5:55, if taken too far, your writing may come across as pretentious gibberish.
Dr Shaym Never if there is meaning behind it.
ANYTHING written to sound impressive, or smart becomes pretentious. I mean, you can add all the smartly written stuff you want if it serves to educate on the character, world, story, etc. of it only serves to make your writing seem more impressive, then you have an issue
ultimateninjaboi
Yes but that is why it isn't written sound impressive but instead to convey more meaning than if you would just use the most barebone statement you could find.
HPGmaphax I'm a big fan of only saying what is needed, and not flowering up narrative. That's what I meant. When you throw big words, or massive amounts of words so that it sounds smarter, you do the work a disservice. If you use the words to better convey meaning, you serve the narrative well.
Character dialogue is a little different, because you're writing what the character would say. Some people speak plainly and simply, some are very good with words, and some sprinkle pretentious bull crap into their words all the time. If the character dialogue us pretentious because the speaker is, themself, pretentious, it works
ultimateninjaboi
Thats true :)
"The cake is a lie!" That line was in the game a shit ton and is still in my head to this day.
I like the not-so-subtle jab at EA at 6:45.
im already working with my teacher to get kids in my design class to watch it. best tip, either watch it in front of the teacher or ask him/her to watch just one episode with you, the teacher will be hooked.
*applause for you* Just reading my dialog aloud to myself, I realized there was so much I should change, and it has all been worth it. I haven't even tried reading it aloud to others yet. I'd already blindly made an Alpha release with that junk, and I could never totally understand how to get my dialog to flow right.(always been more of a plot/setting/action writer... pretty much, everything else xD) VERY helpful, keep up the great work!
It's not just about paying attention to the story, it's about taking the player through the journey. Because gaming has new methods of engulfing the player in the story (not like those of books or film which have already explored and mastered), the developers have to find ways of taking advantage of that. That statement was from a developers viewpoint and though it may seem offensive, it's basically telling them to think outside of the box because games can be just as moving as film and books.
I never played Quantum Conundrum, but from the clip that was played here, I KNEW Professor Fitz's voice sounded familiar: John De Lancie. Q from Star Trek.
"Hey yo dawg, I was think'n about whether I should off myself" is the best thing.
"Got it memorized?"
Yes. Yes, I do. Thank you for asking literally every time we meet.
Axel's...not the best example. >.> His use of repetition is more of a personal quirk than anything else...though I'd argue it helps sell the artificiality of his personality, in keeping with the "Nobodies only pretend to be people" idea.
For the record, I don't necessarily agree with KH in that regard, but playing a role or going 'real people act like this, right?' is something people do when they suffer from any number of mental disorders that dissociate them from "normal" behavior.
What hilariously dumbed-down Shakespeare, X! Had me rollin :)
love the art work here 6:18
Love one line from bastion (an example of the juxtaposition)
"The crossroads of bad and wrong"
>hears fitz's voice
>looks it up
Oh man! this makes me want to see a physics puzzle game with Fitz, Q, and Discord now
I hew to the old adage of 'if you want to write, then read.' In other words, if you want to be a good writer then you need to read - and not just good stuff either. Reading bad stuff helps you nail down bad execution and clumsy storytelling.
I imagine that the same can apply to games.
@ 3:20 I spit my coffee all over my keyboard
when you lean on a display and ride a load , please very stop it because it is danger.
Hamlet's suicide contemplation is so much better with the whole quote:
"To be, or not to be. That is the question. Whether tis nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, or to take arms against a sea of troubles, and by opposing, end them. To sleep, to dream no more."
I know I felt that backstory thing when playing Saints Row Four, I hadn't played the previous games and hearing them talk to each other about all the good times they had back in those games gave them a sense of being real people, who really knew each other.
"No need for bombs, when hate will do. It's been said that war, war never changes, men do through the roads they walk" -Ulysses
Very intelligent advice. I am impressed. Well done.
Two things.
"Did I ever tell you the definition of insanity?"
And Also, I liked how at the end of the video, there's a special note about Sim City :)
I think "Hey yo dawg! I was think'n about whether I should off myself" is the best thing I've ever heard Daniel say.
and this is why Ezio is my favourite assassin. He's not just better written but he convays his dialogue in a much more meaningful way then Altair or *shudder* Conner.
I really liked Quantum Conundrum, mostly because of John de Lancie's voice actually. The character does get some fantastic expository lines, they're just not integrated into the level instructions to the extent that Portal's are.
I'm so glade I watched this. This is really going to help me create and develop some of my characters. Thank you so much for making this video.
1:42 That is the funniest image I've seen all day!
+Dragonstar Cole = best character of Gears of war
Mercure250 I wouldn't know. I haven't played Gears of War.
Dragonstar From my experience...You don't really miss something...but maybe I say that only because I'm not a fan of FPS :')
Wooooo!
In reference to repetition, one of the best examples of this is Winston Churchill's "We Will Fight Them" speech. Game writers could learn a lot from great speeches, if only for better villains :D
"bring us the girl wipe away the dept!"
i think that phrase is going to stay with me for quite a while
3:48 OBJECTION!
"War...has changed."
Oddly enough, as a writer, I can't actually "write," per se. I have entire stories written in full technicolor, as it were, in my head and my head alone. I developed all my characters by acting them out and talking to myself as my characters. I'm glad I'm at least doing something productive, but I haven't actually written anything down yet. :P
Also, PERSONA 3 PICTURE!!! ERMAHGERR GEEK-OUT MODE ACTIVATED! GREATEST STORY EVER TOLD BLAAAAAARRRGH!!!
Thank you.
As some one going into graphic design this is helpful food for thought when designing things even if I might not use it.
I like that little Csikszentmihalyi reference. More people involved with games should be aware of flow theory.
I love that "Not drawing all those letters" has more letters than "dissonant juxtaposition."
I believe EC are saying it's not whether someone is paying attention, but how _closely_ they are doing so. The Bioshock example is part of the plot twist where certain lines in the game suddenly come together. It works because a player will suddenly "get" what's happening and has to question whether Jack has had free will in the story.
This is incredibly useful to someone who wants to write dialogue in games.
Not a filter, they speed up the recording by about 10%. I find it plays well with the animated nature of the information.
Thanks this has been helpful. I would like to maybe write for games. But still thanks so much for all this knowledge on video games.
The Cole Train part cracked me up!! WHOO!!
LOL, like the part when James holds the guy's head and say "this is important" XD
I normally also do this while writing: I normally let the characters themselves take me to where they want me to write about them. It is strange to describe, but once I know for sure how a character acts, feels and speaks, including their quirks, I just let them write their own stories. And then the akward solo acting of these characters start. XD
Hey extra creditz: In my opinion you missed out on an important point: The fine line of having meaningful characterisation or stereotypical over-the-top schmalz. The dialogue in the intro of redfaction armageddon or all the lines of ssgt. Knox in Red River are prime examples. :P
Honestly, this one is super useful outside of game development, even for me as a writer of webnovels its super useful, and I use a lot of it
It's a bit like final fantasy numbering in the U.S. and japan. It's a bit confusing and one gets them sooner. PATV gets episodes first, which are technically on youtube but do not have anything linking to them. They put it in their videos list after it's in PATV. If you want to watch the newest one in youtube, go to PATV and click the watch in youtube button.
Well.. this episode solves a issue I was having
Thank you :D
6:21 Love it! (of Montreal -- Heimdalsgate Like A Promethean Curse)
By the way, they, the band, made a board game, Songun, and it is awesome!