Not a constructive comment but I just wanted to say that the INTJ girl has a really really charming smile and way of speaking - a random INFJ on the internet
I think the intuitives (INTP, INFP, ENTJ, ENFJ) are the best typers bc of their intuition. these 4. types basically like grouping/classifying things a lot.
Great video! ENFJ married for 12 years to an ISFP and I agree about the great attention to details that ISFP's retain in work that they are passionate about. My husband also retains strong emotions associated with sensory stimuli (like the bad ones with the dentist or good ones with family traditions) and he is often frustrated by my complete disregard for Si conventions or my lack of attention to details in certain things (like cooking lol). For myself, I did really well with literary analysis and similar subjects like you mentioned. I also find that Ne pops out in a fun way - like I'm pretty good at thinking of alternate lyrics for songs or replacing words in poems on a whim.
I reckon people use their dominant function so easily, that they don't need to think about it. But the auxiliary, needs more conscious effort. So when it comes to the shadow functions, that aspect is paralleled so that the 6th function would manifest more so than the 5th because it requires more unconscious effort to use
I’m an INTJ and I am great at Ti. I point out Ti fallacies in people’s arguments all the time. It’s how I judge a lot of things. But it’s not anywhere close to the main tool with which I view my world.
My coworker is an INTJ through and through. He's always searching for more efficient ways to do things, but he is also really quick to understand when one part of the puzzle doesn't fit in. He, too, is great at recognizing the fallacies in an argument -- when it directly affects him or his plan. It's a tool he can pull out rather than his general way of being.
I dunno what that 4-d means, but "equally strong" ? I don't see it. You get better at a function through practice, it is not innate. If they don't value it, they don't practice it, and thus they aren't really good at it. Simple as that. Some skills of Te may carry over, it's still T after all, but that's it. That's nowhere near a Ti dom that lives in it. I also think that "reside in the unconscious' is BS when we're talking about typology. Never seen someone explain it well, it's always handwaved vague terms, a mean to obtain leeway, really.
Not sure about the 'best', but certainly the most versatile of each. I am very glad to see a video describing the fluid interplay between the Creative and Demonstrative functions. It's not very appreciated by MBTI/JCF people and in Socionics few people understand the function dichotomies enough to describe it.
Could you talk about why I never feel sure about my type as an INFP? I'll think that I'm an INFP and then one contradictory thought will make me uncertain again- it's so annoying 😢
People are too overly confident in their first function so they become irresponsible with it. People are more humble in their second function so so they are more careful with it and can focus on making it better.
Well, I can see it somewhat, but wouldn't it be because of the difference between the first and last function, ie, the disparity in the use of your own axis ? Like all functions go together 2 by 2, so if you neglect one half, you're in a bad spot. The functions in the middle are somewhat balanced. Using my own type, INTP, focusing too much on Ti would mean that I fail to learn from the group's opinion (Fe).There, say, an ENTP, would take it into account easier and thus gain time. But well, it's more about being awful at your 4th than people being good at their 2nd...
Omg yessss, infp is a mainly intuitive type/basis. Yes! And then people either pin on us or learn from us all these terrible ideas about "feeling" and "feelers". And its like because you are missing the entirety of our wisdom. Now i know that can largely be from both not explaining ourselves well and from our needs to hide our inner workings😄😒👏. -(well and from just not understanding the mbti system and taking the initials at face value). But you guys are so on the money!! Ty so much for this content and i enjoyed it a lot!☺☺🙏 (U guys are both so pretty)but Alex you are glowing in this one 🎉 ☺ u Go girl ✊😊
As an ENFP, I can definitely see what you guys are saying. I've always wondered if I was an INFJ, and I think a lot of that stems from my ability to tell what others are feeling in reaction to what I'm doing. I've always felt confident knowing what a person is feeling based off what I'm saying, but their motives (Ni) are a lot more difficult for me to understand. I definitely do not trust my Ni because I think that diminishes my ability to keep an open mind. I am always seeking to be really well liked, so I consciously put in effort to understand how people feel about me. I want them to like me so I can get their support in going after my Ne goal. I've never even thought about how that difference could be. For example, my little sister is an INFP, and like Calypso, she always seems to know what other people's intentions are. However, I don't know if this is true of Calyspo, but my sister can use her Fe exclusively to feed her Ni idea about someones intention and can be a bit blind to when there are changes or incongruities. Like once she decides that someone is mad at her, for instance, it would take the person moving the world for her to see anything else. Everything they do would be proof that they are mad. Whereas me, I'm always looking for a reason to be wrong about my Ni idea of someone's intention, using their any movement or change in facial expression to prove they have changed. I always want to have that benefit of a doubt.
@@にちはHYPERSPACE Yes, I would say that I'm thinking about other people's motives a lot, and that will determine how much I respect them. I'm just saying that how willing we are to see a change in their motives can potentially stem from this Shadow function behavior.
ISFJ Here I feel like Fi is my most valued shadow function. I do try and understand people’s perspective and understand how they can have individual desires and passions (prob some basic Fi).
Lakshmi Tejasvi Yeah I def feel like IXFJs have better Fi than ExFJs. This could be one reason why we enjoy one on one conversations with people and getting to know them. Whereas the ExFJs tend to be more about the group.
I’m an aspiring INFP writer and I definitely see my Ni come out when it comes to the plot of a situation, after my Ne has set up the ‘stage’ perse. The setting/location/scenario of the story could be completely unrealistic but once I throw characters into the situation they act as realistically as possible in that scenario.
Agreed -- (ENFP) I always seem to lose INTJs if I don't keep the subject relatively focused, whereas with my ENTJ friends, I can bounce around a lot less intentionally and they will keep up and adapt more easily.
In hindsight though. Whilst i do come to ENTP for well fleshed out thoughts. I find i dont respect their Te unlike the INTJ. Or rather they dont seem to understand/appreciate the whole efficiency side of things... i suppose though this could be due to Ni driving an outcome as opposed to Te specifically. Mmmm. Nice vid :)
Interesting content, but confusing title... How are we defining "Best?" 🤔 Perhaps socionics is right about some things. If the pattern is that the 5th function is used somewhat well but not valued and the 6th function is also used somewhat well and valued, then that seems to hold true for me... sort of. I definitely value Ni more than Te... at least in _others_ ... Te really drives me crazy but I think that's also the worry and pessimism of the "nemesis" function shining through. Ni? Eh. I'm really not a long-term plans kind of gal. I really prefer to fly by the seat of my pants. The thing is, what you guys said about INTPs seeing patterns and INFPs recognizing others' intentions is true (and I'd like to think I'm good at intuiting others' intentions as well). But I've always been taught that's Ne! Seeing the intentions of _others_ in the external world, and seeing the (albeit short-term) futures of others. So wouldn't the phenomenon you describe be due to both INTPs and INFPs having Ne parent? I thought Ni was more about seeing far ahead into one's own future? Are we just using different definitions here? That being said, it still may be possible that INxPs use Ni fairly well; I just think the examples you used might not best describe Ni. Since shadow functions tend to be more pessimistic - and the 6th function especially is a more pessimistic version of an already somewhat pessimistic ego function (hence, "the critical parent") - I think an INxP's use of Ni would tend to be more about protection and responsibility. Classic example, we see others being irresponsible with what they want (with our Ne) so we harness the power of our Si to keep ourselves from wanting the "wrong" thing (Ni... and also Fi for Calypso). This tendency can be self-sabotaging when we sort of will ourselves into being so ascetic, minimalist, and anti-materialism or whatever that we don't let ourselves want anything, including things that might be good for us. But I think when used maturely, especially when coupled with Si, we can use that Ni critic to will ourselves into staying loyal for the right reasons and not coveting the blessings of others, effectively avoiding envy and "grass is greener on the other side"-syndrome. That would be an example of good Ni-use, I think. Okay, watching to the end of the video, I think I have a better idea of what you mean by "best" (though it was so not clear from the title and still a little unclear after the introduction). This is part of why I like the "hero/parent/child/etc" terminology; such trends make more sense with those metaphors. The hero basically has free reign to do whatever it wants so it can be a bit unwieldy and reckless, "saving the world," but causing collateral damage. Whereas the parent function is not as active or skilled as the hero, but more responsible. And the shadow follows the same pattern. So the "critical parent" (6th function) is super responsible and hypervigilant in its activity (hence "best" ... It seems more restrained and thoughtful and helpful) than the nemesis & hero functions. Anyway, this is the way I learned cognitive functions that really clicked with me, but it might come down to a differing perspective. 🤷♀️
This was fascinating!!!!!! And it makes sense... Im an INFP and my daughter is an ENFP and she is always pointing out FE values and Im listening to her and I can see what she means but its like those FE values dont stick or just keep going because they feel like ghosts going thru a door? Thanks for sharing!!!
I feel like both INxPs and ENxPs have lots of ideas about what to do with their lives or how to accomplish certain tasks, but INxPs would eventually pick a vague goal while ENxPs won’t know where they’re going until they get there lol
So I guess this balance comes from having creative and demonstrative functions in tandem. Because the parent can be switched off more easily than the dominant function and the function in the opposite direction is not suppressed as much.
I actually posted this theory on the MBTI Reddit sub. Did not get much attention since memes get the most clicks. I made a point that INTJ, ESTP, ENTP, & ISTJ are the most well-rounded thinkers. They are strong in both Te and Ti, while Ti/Te doms are very strong in one aspect of thinking but not in the other. INTPs for example don’t appreciate Te at all and it’s a nemesis function for them.
*They are strong in both Te and Ti, while Ti/Te doms are very strong in one aspect of thinking but not in the other.* You know, it doesn't qualify as a theory if you just say this. Like, you have to explain it, that's the principle of a theory... Why would T-dom be bad at the shadow version of their T ? And why doesn't it apply to the 5th function ? Tbh, it's more that you don't see it that them being bad at it. I'm an INTP, and discussing with ENTJ, I see they are pretty good at it/being one the rare type really calling me out on my BS, even on Ti terms. I also totally appreciate Te, what the fuck are you talking about ? Aren't you confusing the rejection of Fe consensus with refusing Te ? Because tons of INTPs argue using Te basis, like all the time, on all the scientific topics, etc. Why ? Because you have to, because it's that or you're just stuck in your own head forever. .
@@Baamthe25th lots of people think they are good at something because they have invested significant time and energy to improve that area. This can lead to appreciation but ultimately does not mean they are great at it, nor does it mean they can rely/trust that ability when under duress. I believe this is the point in question. The Ti/Te dom will default back to that when under the pump. Whereas the "best" thinkers are more balanced whether free or pressured.... ENTJ calling out ya BS :)
You tried to call me out, but I really don't think you suceeded First off, you didn't really explain their+ his theory, nor answered my questions. Secondly, defaulting back to that function under pressure isn't an argument. The exact same thing goes for the others types, since it's also a shadow function for them... And all shadows function are untrusted. (How did you even miss that glaring hole ? This is ironically a better argument than yours against myself, but I will give you that freebie.) Thirdly, You immediatly extrapolate that to "more balanced whether free or pressured" when you didn't even argue properly for the under-pressure half. Fourth, what kind of pressure anyway ? If I'm under pressure, it really means other people are pressuring me somehow. Then, I can't just use Ti like I want, I kinda have to argue in a language they understand, ie, Te or Fe. That's just an example among many, so you will have to do better than that/define what you're talking about... I also disagree with your claim that spending time on something doesn't mean they are good at it, gee, the only reason why I'm good at TI is because I spent most of my life using it. The only case where you have a point is when the amount of invested time ISN'T significant. And I guarantee you that I spend more time using Te that I spend Ni... Try again.
@@Baamthe25th there is no further to try. If the gravity of what i said didnt click then you have a longer journey ahead than me. Im not here to be your guidance counsellor. Edit. I dont care about theory. Im talking practical manifestations from my experience and others i know well.
(INTJ) When I was new to MBTI I thought I had to be an INXP. I write fantasy. I have way too many ideas on which direction the story and characters can go, and what kind of details to add to the setting. Rudimentary understanding of MBTI made me think Ne was responsible for that kind of creative process. I also consider myself to have a ton of interests (admitted, all related and likely someone with more mainstream interests might think I'm way too specialized). It wasn't until I studied how things work on an axis that I realized that Ne-Si was bizarre and Ni-Se made me think, "Duh...so many people don't actually think like that? Whoa." I suppose a creative use of Ni-Se superficially can look like Ne but, like in your writing video, still has a distinct style from Ne writing. So maybe other aspects that I've related to Ne have actually been the N glazing over my Se. I've always related to Ti descriptions as much as Te ones (but there are a bunch of bad ones out there. Probably half of Ti ones use the same wording as Ni and many Te ones just sound like conniving businessmen). I'm going to steal an idea I read in other comment and say perhaps it's because I have a lower Te compared to the INTJ stereotype that I have more window room to go down the stack to Fi and to the unconscious realm of Ti. I'm also wondering if a strong unconscious Ti is a pseudo-Ni "aha!" deal where I "get it". I have a logic system to explain things, but often I can't describe it. It works for me, the sense of understanding gives me confidence to take a step forward on things (action or just moving on to thinking about something else), but I'll usually not be able to prove I get it.
What can you guys tell me about im an infp (for sure!) who frequently finds myself having the same ultimate conclusions as a few entj's. Now it doesnt mean everything they say obviously. But its striking to me that i normally have very clear lines where either my conclusions are different or the details i chose to get there are different. So,when that isn't the case with anyone i notice! ... If this happens a lot ...always entj What can,you guys tell me about that ?😊 ty
Ni PANGS!! I've been getting a lot of those lately, like I'm usually very aware of my reasons, but I'm recently really aware of how "intuitivy" some of my explanations are. #INTP
I know it's socionics, but why would the 6th function be stronger than the 5th ? You didn't explain this and went straight to examples. It's like you forgot the one important thing. As an INTP, I'm better at Te than I'm at Ni, simply because I use it more often. I don't just build models in my head on my own, I research the reasoning of others/consensus as far as fact are concerned. I just build up on top of it. It's not just Ne, if anything, it's Ne/Te working together. Meanwhile, typical Ni things like planning stuff, trying to stay organized, I basically do not do it at all. It's not even organizing my ideas eitheir, ideas are linked through Ti, or it's just the Te model I absorbed. And when some sort of Ni idea pop up in my head, I reject it/consider it untrustworthy (So why would that be different for other types ?)
I don't know socionics well, but my understanding is the second and sixth functions have the best "synergy" out of all the conscious-unconscious function pairings. they're strong without having to be in conflict. while first and fifth are strong they don't work well with each other due to one's bias towards their first function (you would obvs have more of a preference for first function over second otherwise they'd be switched).
Then, why would the bias for the first function overshadow the 5th, but the bias for the 2nd would overshadow the 6th ? It's fine and all to talk about "you understanding", but you can't explain it, you understand nothing. When my Ti is stuck, I rely on Ne/Te to get unstuck. Not Ni. In fact, the synergy between Ne/Te is more noticeable than the one between Ne/Ni (I think NTSupport did a vid on this) For the second post, I think an INFJ could be better at Ti, since it's actually part of their stack, so if they developed it a bit, they are okay. There's also DaveSuperpower's theory he is testing/building currently. He says that there are more than 16 types (he increases it gradually up to 512). The first thig he argues is that there are 2 types of each type, so for INFJ, there are INFJ NiFe (the classic), but also the INFJ Ni/Ti, and it's a 50/50 distribution. If true, then the Ni/Ti subtype would be better at Ti than INTJ for sure.
I think the socionics theory is too simplistic. Reality is aprehensible with all the funtions, is just that the starting point is different (like starting from the A or the Z in the alphabeth) and the axis funtions Fe/ti, Fi/Te, Ni/Se and Ne/Si really DO need each other to funtion correclty. A developed ISFP and a developed ENFJ both could come to the same "feeling" conclusion: one, the ISFP starts from Fi individual understanding to then relate to others/nurturing relationships (integrating Te) and ENFJs starts with Fe, nurturing relationships to then understand itself (integrating Ti). I thing the problem happens when the inferior and auxiliary are not well integrated, if an ENFJ doesn't develop Ni and Ti (most people do not push themselfs to do this) her or his feeling funtion is not going to be at its best because it needs Ti to understand itself, without understanding of the self the relationships it fosters are poor (Too pushy/ too harsh / etc) The same with INTJs (my type), without correct Se development (throught Te action), there is simply not enough Se information to form high quality intuitions (for taking an intuitive leap you need to know reality or else is just useless fantasy), Se information that ENTJs and ENFJ do have because they are extroverts with Se, so for them, the moment they go inside, they are going to have a lot of unconsious Ni to use, it appears that they use Ne but that is not true at all, they just have a better balance of Se and Ni and can access more opportunities because they have their eyes more open. .That balance makes their Ni appear (and in certain way compared to an underdeveloped Ni-dom, be) stronger, the same with the Fi in ExFPs. Same with INxPs, an INTP spending time alone analizing Ne possibilities and Si past experiences to reach an insighful conclusion is not the same as Ni, even when we reach the same conclusion ("reality" ) and you can see they lack Ni bacause for us Ni doms, the aligment with the future is always a need (along other Ni characteristics). Basically the BIG problem with socionics is that doesnt really account for development and relies too much on stereotypes, every type is the lazy caricature instead of an evolving complex human being, wich makes its prescriptions quite sad (If I never develop my extraverted funtions then I must need an ESFP ("dual") as a romantic partner to survive the world, similar theory to the one that says is the ENFP the needed to be less sad) The truth is the Ni and Ne dominants can be the best intuitives if they develop their auxiliary to have enough Se and Si info to work with., same with other types. I would love to hear your thoughts :)
I stopped caring bit by bit about people whenever I watched someone trying to make the world a better place not even coming close to succeeding, that being because the vast majority of people are in essence stupid, selfish, easily influenced and too lazy to think about anything meaningful or do anything to change, or at least that's how I see it being. Nowadays I just help the few folks that at least live a honest life and need help the most. - Quick and maybe unusual insight from an INFJ
The reasoning behind this is the deep approval and connection people have with the positioning of the dominant function. Even though their 6th function is the opposite to their creative function it manifests itself the same way as their most valued dominant, giving the person the illusion that it is a ‘skill’ that they could potentially master. They approve of it and feel slightly lacking when they see strong effective use of it, almost resenting their creative function. However this is a fallacy and should be avoided. Admiring your unconscious 6th fiction too much renders your creative auxiliary useless, it causes way too much cognitive pressure and should be used extremely sparingly.
i feel like if the infp girl takes an overdose of acid and starts foaming at the mouth.the intj girl will not notice anything is wrong and would still continue to speak to her?
Hate people who think strong Ni/Ti as a freaking gift. That accounts for most cases where people favor/unfavor a mbti-related theory.You think Ne-si can't do things Ni-se can do? You think Ti is cool because it's so darn deep and sophiscated so that Te is shit to it? Your self-esteem has been reduced to just one philosophy.Why not just cultivate your competence and live on your life ?
I feel quite uncomfortable with the long haired girl on the left. It's something about her mannerisms and they way she speaks also the body language, like the hair tossing. It's a little bit unnerving and I'm anxious a little looking at the way she acts. Am I the only one here? 😕. I don't mean to be rude 🙏
Not a constructive comment but I just wanted to say that the INTJ girl has a really really charming smile and way of speaking - a random INFJ on the internet
I think the intuitives (INTP, INFP, ENTJ, ENFJ) are the best typers bc of their intuition.
these 4. types basically like grouping/classifying things a lot.
Great video! ENFJ married for 12 years to an ISFP and I agree about the great attention to details that ISFP's retain in work that they are passionate about. My husband also retains strong emotions associated with sensory stimuli (like the bad ones with the dentist or good ones with family traditions) and he is often frustrated by my complete disregard for Si conventions or my lack of attention to details in certain things (like cooking lol). For myself, I did really well with literary analysis and similar subjects like you mentioned. I also find that Ne pops out in a fun way - like I'm pretty good at thinking of alternate lyrics for songs or replacing words in poems on a whim.
I reckon people use their dominant function so easily, that they don't need to think about it. But the auxiliary, needs more conscious effort. So when it comes to the shadow functions, that aspect is paralleled so that the 6th function would manifest more so than the 5th because it requires more unconscious effort to use
I’m an INTJ and I am great at Ti. I point out Ti fallacies in people’s arguments all the time. It’s how I judge a lot of things. But it’s not anywhere close to the main tool with which I view my world.
My coworker is an INTJ through and through. He's always searching for more efficient ways to do things, but he is also really quick to understand when one part of the puzzle doesn't fit in. He, too, is great at recognizing the fallacies in an argument -- when it directly affects him or his plan. It's a tool he can pull out rather than his general way of being.
From a Ti-dom's POV, you guys are just okay at it.
SpyMonkey3D idk about that, they both have 4d ti, which means they are both equally strong at it
it’s just that intjs don’t value it, as was already said. thus it resides in the unconscious
I dunno what that 4-d means, but "equally strong" ? I don't see it.
You get better at a function through practice, it is not innate. If they don't value it, they don't practice it, and thus they aren't really good at it. Simple as that.
Some skills of Te may carry over, it's still T after all, but that's it. That's nowhere near a Ti dom that lives in it.
I also think that "reside in the unconscious' is BS when we're talking about typology. Never seen someone explain it well, it's always handwaved vague terms, a mean to obtain leeway, really.
Guys it’s been a year since I’ve seen been watching your videos,and I must admit you’re slayin’ the internet!!!
Much love ❤️
Infp here. Cool video. Thanks for making it. Have a great day. Peace.
Not sure about the 'best', but certainly the most versatile of each. I am very glad to see a video describing the fluid interplay between the Creative and Demonstrative functions. It's not very appreciated by MBTI/JCF people and in Socionics few people understand the function dichotomies enough to describe it.
Could you talk about why I never feel sure about my type as an INFP? I'll think that I'm an INFP and then one contradictory thought will make me uncertain again- it's so annoying 😢
sruti chandra maybe your Ne function thinks anything is possible m
INFP: We cover that in this video: ua-cam.com/video/FAsae4OuvWA/v-deo.html
People are too overly confident in their first function so they become irresponsible with it. People are more humble in their second function so so they are more careful with it and can focus on making it better.
Well, I can see it somewhat, but wouldn't it be because of the difference between the first and last function, ie, the disparity in the use of your own axis ?
Like all functions go together 2 by 2, so if you neglect one half, you're in a bad spot.
The functions in the middle are somewhat balanced. Using my own type, INTP, focusing too much on Ti would mean that I fail to learn from the group's opinion (Fe).There, say, an ENTP, would take it into account easier and thus gain time.
But well, it's more about being awful at your 4th than people being good at their 2nd...
Yeah cuz your first function is more tied to your ego while you’re second function isn’t this is why the first function is the hero.
Omg yessss, infp is a mainly intuitive type/basis. Yes!
And then people either pin on us or learn from us all these terrible ideas about "feeling" and "feelers". And its like because you are missing the entirety of our wisdom.
Now i know that can largely be from both not explaining ourselves well and from our needs to hide our inner workings😄😒👏. -(well and from just not understanding the mbti system and taking the initials at face value).
But you guys are so on the money!! Ty so much for this content and i enjoyed it a lot!☺☺🙏
(U guys are both so pretty)but Alex you are glowing in this one 🎉 ☺ u Go girl ✊😊
As an ENFP, I can definitely see what you guys are saying. I've always wondered if I was an INFJ, and I think a lot of that stems from my ability to tell what others are feeling in reaction to what I'm doing. I've always felt confident knowing what a person is feeling based off what I'm saying, but their motives (Ni) are a lot more difficult for me to understand. I definitely do not trust my Ni because I think that diminishes my ability to keep an open mind. I am always seeking to be really well liked, so I consciously put in effort to understand how people feel about me. I want them to like me so I can get their support in going after my Ne goal. I've never even thought about how that difference could be.
For example, my little sister is an INFP, and like Calypso, she always seems to know what other people's intentions are. However, I don't know if this is true of Calyspo, but my sister can use her Fe exclusively to feed her Ni idea about someones intention and can be a bit blind to when there are changes or incongruities. Like once she decides that someone is mad at her, for instance, it would take the person moving the world for her to see anything else. Everything they do would be proof that they are mad. Whereas me, I'm always looking for a reason to be wrong about my Ni idea of someone's intention, using their any movement or change in facial expression to prove they have changed. I always want to have that benefit of a doubt.
i think understanding others’ motives is more in line with Fi
@@にちはHYPERSPACE Yes, I would say that I'm thinking about other people's motives a lot, and that will determine how much I respect them. I'm just saying that how willing we are to see a change in their motives can potentially stem from this Shadow function behavior.
Like that you guys talk socioncs. Really know your stuff.
just because they keep mentioning it in their videos does not guarantee they know the theory correctly.
I'm going to get back to this video sometime. I still don't quite understand functions. You both get so deep into this. ❤️
ISFJ Here I feel like Fi is my most valued shadow function. I do try and understand people’s perspective and understand how they can have individual desires and passions (prob some basic Fi).
yeah u r sith function is strongest function and seventh the weakest. ur fi channels thru ur fe.
Lakshmi Tejasvi Yeah I def feel like IXFJs have better Fi than ExFJs. This could be one reason why we enjoy one on one conversations with people and getting to know them. Whereas the ExFJs tend to be more about the group.
I’m an aspiring INFP writer and I definitely see my Ni come out when it comes to the plot of a situation, after my Ne has set up the ‘stage’ perse. The setting/location/scenario of the story could be completely unrealistic but once I throw characters into the situation they act as realistically as possible in that scenario.
ENTJ.. def agree with INTJ having solid Ti and ENTJ being able to keep up with Ne doms.. fascinating insight. I never looked at it from this angle
Agreed -- (ENFP) I always seem to lose INTJs if I don't keep the subject relatively focused, whereas with my ENTJ friends, I can bounce around a lot less intentionally and they will keep up and adapt more easily.
In hindsight though. Whilst i do come to ENTP for well fleshed out thoughts. I find i dont respect their Te unlike the INTJ. Or rather they dont seem to understand/appreciate the whole efficiency side of things... i suppose though this could be due to Ni driving an outcome as opposed to Te specifically. Mmmm. Nice vid :)
Interesting content, but confusing title... How are we defining "Best?" 🤔
Perhaps socionics is right about some things. If the pattern is that the 5th function is used somewhat well but not valued and the 6th function is also used somewhat well and valued, then that seems to hold true for me... sort of. I definitely value Ni more than Te... at least in _others_ ... Te really drives me crazy but I think that's also the worry and pessimism of the "nemesis" function shining through. Ni? Eh. I'm really not a long-term plans kind of gal. I really prefer to fly by the seat of my pants.
The thing is, what you guys said about INTPs seeing patterns and INFPs recognizing others' intentions is true (and I'd like to think I'm good at intuiting others' intentions as well). But I've always been taught that's Ne! Seeing the intentions of _others_ in the external world, and seeing the (albeit short-term) futures of others. So wouldn't the phenomenon you describe be due to both INTPs and INFPs having Ne parent? I thought Ni was more about seeing far ahead into one's own future? Are we just using different definitions here?
That being said, it still may be possible that INxPs use Ni fairly well; I just think the examples you used might not best describe Ni. Since shadow functions tend to be more pessimistic - and the 6th function especially is a more pessimistic version of an already somewhat pessimistic ego function (hence, "the critical parent") - I think an INxP's use of Ni would tend to be more about protection and responsibility. Classic example, we see others being irresponsible with what they want (with our Ne) so we harness the power of our Si to keep ourselves from wanting the "wrong" thing (Ni... and also Fi for Calypso). This tendency can be self-sabotaging when we sort of will ourselves into being so ascetic, minimalist, and anti-materialism or whatever that we don't let ourselves want anything, including things that might be good for us. But I think when used maturely, especially when coupled with Si, we can use that Ni critic to will ourselves into staying loyal for the right reasons and not coveting the blessings of others, effectively avoiding envy and "grass is greener on the other side"-syndrome. That would be an example of good Ni-use, I think.
Okay, watching to the end of the video, I think I have a better idea of what you mean by "best" (though it was so not clear from the title and still a little unclear after the introduction). This is part of why I like the "hero/parent/child/etc" terminology; such trends make more sense with those metaphors. The hero basically has free reign to do whatever it wants so it can be a bit unwieldy and reckless, "saving the world," but causing collateral damage. Whereas the parent function is not as active or skilled as the hero, but more responsible. And the shadow follows the same pattern. So the "critical parent" (6th function) is super responsible and hypervigilant in its activity (hence "best" ... It seems more restrained and thoughtful and helpful) than the nemesis & hero functions.
Anyway, this is the way I learned cognitive functions that really clicked with me, but it might come down to a differing perspective. 🤷♀️
I agree except the 5th function can be pretty important to an individual.
This was fascinating!!!!!! And it makes sense... Im an INFP and my daughter is an ENFP and she is always pointing out FE values and Im listening to her and I can see what she means but its like those FE values dont stick or just keep going because they feel like ghosts going thru a door? Thanks for sharing!!!
This is a really great and thorough reference video ✌. As far as im concerned you guys nailed it and this is a classic👌.
Yes, I am the best thinker
I feel like both INxPs and ENxPs have lots of ideas about what to do with their lives or how to accomplish certain tasks, but INxPs would eventually pick a vague goal while ENxPs won’t know where they’re going until they get there lol
So I guess this balance comes from having creative and demonstrative functions in tandem. Because the parent can be switched off more easily than the dominant function and the function in the opposite direction is not suppressed as much.
I actually posted this theory on the MBTI Reddit sub. Did not get much attention since memes get the most clicks. I made a point that INTJ, ESTP, ENTP, & ISTJ are the most well-rounded thinkers. They are strong in both Te and Ti, while Ti/Te doms are very strong in one aspect of thinking but not in the other. INTPs for example don’t appreciate Te at all and it’s a nemesis function for them.
Timothy O the fifth function can be quite appreciated, probably depends on maturity.
*They are strong in both Te and Ti, while Ti/Te doms are very strong in one aspect of thinking but not in the other.*
You know, it doesn't qualify as a theory if you just say this. Like, you have to explain it, that's the principle of a theory... Why would T-dom be bad at the shadow version of their T ? And why doesn't it apply to the 5th function ?
Tbh, it's more that you don't see it that them being bad at it. I'm an INTP, and discussing with ENTJ, I see they are pretty good at it/being one the rare type really calling me out on my BS, even on Ti terms.
I also totally appreciate Te, what the fuck are you talking about ? Aren't you confusing the rejection of Fe consensus with refusing Te ? Because tons of INTPs argue using Te basis, like all the time, on all the scientific topics, etc. Why ? Because you have to, because it's that or you're just stuck in your own head forever.
.
@@Baamthe25th lots of people think they are good at something because they have invested significant time and energy to improve that area. This can lead to appreciation but ultimately does not mean they are great at it, nor does it mean they can rely/trust that ability when under duress. I believe this is the point in question. The Ti/Te dom will default back to that when under the pump. Whereas the "best" thinkers are more balanced whether free or pressured.... ENTJ calling out ya BS :)
You tried to call me out, but I really don't think you suceeded
First off, you didn't really explain their+ his theory, nor answered my questions.
Secondly, defaulting back to that function under pressure isn't an argument. The exact same thing goes for the others types, since it's also a shadow function for them... And all shadows function are untrusted. (How did you even miss that glaring hole ? This is ironically a better argument than yours against myself, but I will give you that freebie.)
Thirdly, You immediatly extrapolate that to "more balanced whether free or pressured" when you didn't even argue properly for the under-pressure half.
Fourth, what kind of pressure anyway ? If I'm under pressure, it really means other people are pressuring me somehow. Then, I can't just use Ti like I want, I kinda have to argue in a language they understand, ie, Te or Fe. That's just an example among many, so you will have to do better than that/define what you're talking about...
I also disagree with your claim that spending time on something doesn't mean they are good at it, gee, the only reason why I'm good at TI is because I spent most of my life using it. The only case where you have a point is when the amount of invested time ISN'T significant. And I guarantee you that I spend more time using Te that I spend Ni...
Try again.
@@Baamthe25th there is no further to try.
If the gravity of what i said didnt click then you have a longer journey ahead than me. Im not here to be your guidance counsellor.
Edit. I dont care about theory. Im talking practical manifestations from my experience and others i know well.
Those functions are the 5th and 6th in MBTI, but aren't they the 7th and 8th in socionics?
I understand nothing.
(INTJ) When I was new to MBTI I thought I had to be an INXP. I write fantasy. I have way too many ideas on which direction the story and characters can go, and what kind of details to add to the setting. Rudimentary understanding of MBTI made me think Ne was responsible for that kind of creative process. I also consider myself to have a ton of interests (admitted, all related and likely someone with more mainstream interests might think I'm way too specialized). It wasn't until I studied how things work on an axis that I realized that Ne-Si was bizarre and Ni-Se made me think, "Duh...so many people don't actually think like that? Whoa." I suppose a creative use of Ni-Se superficially can look like Ne but, like in your writing video, still has a distinct style from Ne writing. So maybe other aspects that I've related to Ne have actually been the N glazing over my Se.
I've always related to Ti descriptions as much as Te ones (but there are a bunch of bad ones out there. Probably half of Ti ones use the same wording as Ni and many Te ones just sound like conniving businessmen). I'm going to steal an idea I read in other comment and say perhaps it's because I have a lower Te compared to the INTJ stereotype that I have more window room to go down the stack to Fi and to the unconscious realm of Ti. I'm also wondering if a strong unconscious Ti is a pseudo-Ni "aha!" deal where I "get it". I have a logic system to explain things, but often I can't describe it. It works for me, the sense of understanding gives me confidence to take a step forward on things (action or just moving on to thinking about something else), but I'll usually not be able to prove I get it.
What can you guys tell me about im an infp (for sure!) who frequently finds myself having the same ultimate conclusions as a few entj's. Now it doesnt mean everything they say obviously. But its striking to me that i normally have very clear lines where either my conclusions are different or the details i chose to get there are different. So,when that isn't the case with anyone i notice! ... If this happens a lot ...always entj
What can,you guys tell me about that ?😊 ty
Ni PANGS!! I've been getting a lot of those lately, like I'm usually very aware of my reasons, but I'm recently really aware of how "intuitivy" some of my explanations are. #INTP
6th function is critic
ENFP with good Fe: ummm how could I not tell when someone wants something from me? It's so obvious in their body language! Haha
I know it's socionics, but why would the 6th function be stronger than the 5th ?
You didn't explain this and went straight to examples. It's like you forgot the one important thing.
As an INTP, I'm better at Te than I'm at Ni, simply because I use it more often. I don't just build models in my head on my own, I research the reasoning of others/consensus as far as fact are concerned. I just build up on top of it. It's not just Ne, if anything, it's Ne/Te working together.
Meanwhile, typical Ni things like planning stuff, trying to stay organized, I basically do not do it at all. It's not even organizing my ideas eitheir, ideas are linked through Ti, or it's just the Te model I absorbed. And when some sort of Ni idea pop up in my head, I reject it/consider it untrustworthy (So why would that be different for other types ?)
maybe you're an entp lol
I don't know socionics well, but my understanding is the second and sixth functions have the best "synergy" out of all the conscious-unconscious function pairings. they're strong without having to be in conflict. while first and fifth are strong they don't work well with each other due to one's bias towards their first function (you would obvs have more of a preference for first function over second otherwise they'd be switched).
would an intj really have better use of ti than an infj? and would enfj have better ne than estj?
Then, why would the bias for the first function overshadow the 5th, but the bias for the 2nd would overshadow the 6th ?
It's fine and all to talk about "you understanding", but you can't explain it, you understand nothing.
When my Ti is stuck, I rely on Ne/Te to get unstuck. Not Ni. In fact, the synergy between Ne/Te is more noticeable than the one between Ne/Ni (I think NTSupport did a vid on this)
For the second post, I think an INFJ could be better at Ti, since it's actually part of their stack, so if they developed it a bit, they are okay. There's also DaveSuperpower's theory he is testing/building currently. He says that there are more than 16 types (he increases it gradually up to 512). The first thig he argues is that there are 2 types of each type, so for INFJ, there are INFJ NiFe (the classic), but also the INFJ Ni/Ti, and it's a 50/50 distribution.
If true, then the Ni/Ti subtype would be better at Ti than INTJ for sure.
SpyMonkey3D I'm not sure, but I believe it has something to do with the sixth function being more positive than the fifth; meaning you like it more.
ENFJ: I'm not so sure if I can say that my Ne is _stronger_ than Fi. But I definitely do value it a lot more, that is true! Interesting theory! =)
I think the socionics theory is too simplistic. Reality is aprehensible with all the funtions, is just that the starting point is different (like starting from the A or the Z in the alphabeth) and the axis funtions Fe/ti, Fi/Te, Ni/Se and Ne/Si really DO need each other to funtion correclty. A developed ISFP and a developed ENFJ both could come to the same "feeling" conclusion: one, the ISFP starts from Fi individual understanding to then relate to others/nurturing relationships (integrating Te) and ENFJs starts with Fe, nurturing relationships to then understand itself (integrating Ti). I thing the problem happens when the inferior and auxiliary are not well integrated, if an ENFJ doesn't develop Ni and Ti (most people do not push themselfs to do this) her or his feeling funtion is not going to be at its best because it needs Ti to understand itself, without understanding of the self the relationships it fosters are poor (Too pushy/ too harsh / etc) The same with INTJs (my type), without correct Se development (throught Te action), there is simply not enough Se information to form high quality intuitions (for taking an intuitive leap you need to know reality or else is just useless fantasy), Se information that ENTJs and ENFJ do have because they are extroverts with Se, so for them, the moment they go inside, they are going to have a lot of unconsious Ni to use, it appears that they use Ne but that is not true at all, they just have a better balance of Se and Ni and can access more opportunities because they have their eyes more open. .That balance makes their Ni appear (and in certain way compared to an underdeveloped Ni-dom, be) stronger, the same with the Fi in ExFPs. Same with INxPs, an INTP spending time alone analizing Ne possibilities and Si past experiences to reach an insighful conclusion is not the same as Ni, even when we reach the same conclusion ("reality" ) and you can see they lack Ni bacause for us Ni doms, the aligment with the future is always a need (along other Ni characteristics). Basically the BIG problem with socionics is that doesnt really account for development and relies too much on stereotypes, every type is the lazy caricature instead of an evolving complex human being, wich makes its prescriptions quite sad (If I never develop my extraverted funtions then I must need an ESFP ("dual") as a romantic partner to survive the world, similar theory to the one that says is the ENFP the needed to be less sad) The truth is the Ni and Ne dominants can be the best intuitives if they develop their auxiliary to have enough Se and Si info to work with., same with other types. I would love to hear your thoughts :)
Are you guys available for hire? You guys would make excellent talent relationship coordinators.
INFP: I mean we offer consultations on our website cognitive8.com.
I stopped caring bit by bit about people whenever I watched someone trying to make the world a better place not even coming close to succeeding, that being because the vast majority of people are in essence stupid, selfish, easily influenced and too lazy to think about anything meaningful or do anything to change, or at least that's how I see it being. Nowadays I just help the few folks that at least live a honest life and need help the most.
- Quick and maybe unusual insight from an INFJ
The reasoning behind this is the deep approval and connection people have with the positioning of the dominant function.
Even though their 6th function is the opposite to their creative function it manifests itself the same way as their most valued dominant, giving the person the illusion that it is a ‘skill’ that they could potentially master.
They approve of it and feel slightly lacking when they see strong effective use of it, almost resenting their creative function.
However this is a fallacy and should be avoided. Admiring your unconscious 6th fiction too much renders your creative auxiliary useless, it causes way too much cognitive pressure and should be used extremely sparingly.
i feel like if the infp girl takes an overdose of acid and starts foaming at the mouth.the intj girl will not notice anything is wrong and would still continue to speak to her?
I think she will notice the physical signs with her Se
If you don't mind my asking (I'm really not trying to be nosy), is your boyfriend an ESTJ?
Nosey /Curious same thing. I don't have any bad intentions, you just want to know. Nothing wrong with that.
P.s hope she answers
🤔
We'll have to do a showcasing to find out! -A
can you pls tell us first then laugh or smile.
"Best"? Probably not.⚰️
Edgiest? _🅱️🅾️🅾️ℹ️ you already know_ 👌💀
☝️ *(3 months later)* Lmao, get a load of this guy! 😂🤦
Hate people who think strong Ni/Ti as a freaking gift. That accounts for most cases where people favor/unfavor a mbti-related theory.You think Ne-si can't do things Ni-se can do? You think Ti is cool because it's so darn deep and sophiscated so that Te is shit to it? Your self-esteem has been reduced to just one philosophy.Why not just cultivate your competence and live on your life ?
INTJ is best overall
INFPs are the best feelers.
I feel quite uncomfortable with the long haired girl on the left. It's something about her mannerisms and they way she speaks also the body language, like the hair tossing. It's a little bit unnerving and I'm anxious a little looking at the way she acts. Am I the only one here? 😕. I don't mean to be rude 🙏
ENFP
INTP not the best thinkers**
Nerd rage***
Hi miss Asian enfp, you are so stunning and bubbly. Please have my babies. Have fantasized about you a bit. No creepy though 😂😎. So gorgeous
OWO