Is Modern Horizons BAD For Magic: the Gathering? (MTG)
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- Опубліковано 3 жов 2024
- Modern Horizons and MH2 have both produced some fantastic and beloved cards and some utterly broken nuisances. These sheer warping of the eternal formats from these two sets dominating the meta has led to a lot of hate towards MH1 and MH2. Overall, have these sets been bad for the game of Magic: the Gathering, or are a few rotten eggs not indicative of their quality? Let me know what you think below!
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Yes absolutely. They turned modern into an unofficially rotating format
I’m lucky that Burn was unaffected, but I totally understand the frustration
They just need to not print cards like ragavan and evoke elementals. I play pauper and there are at tone of MH cards that have positively impacted the format.
That’s a great point, I’ve never considered the impact on other formats outside of Modern/Commander since that’s all I play. Giving formats like Pauper more fun and powerful cards seems good on paper, just not at Modern’s expense.
I do not like bridges. Fuck bridges. Playing 3 colors in pauper should be hard, not an advantage
Ragavan is ridiculous and entirely too pushed
The irony that in order to sell product. They want to make very OP/powercrept cards in order to attract and make people buy sealed and crack open packs
I think the blending of mechanics is wonderful. They just need to carefully consider the cost of any given card or mechanic on said card. The evoke elementals were made with too cheap of an evoke cost, and ragavan was 1 mana too cheap. I play commander, so they haven't hurt me too badly, but I still think they could have been altered to be less game breaking.
Yes its terrible for the format. Itd be alot better if it was focused on bringing teir 2 and rouge decks to the limelight and making a couple new ones. NOT adding a ton of free casting that every deck has to play to be competitively viable. MH2 single handedly pushed me out of modern. I really wish the sets were used as a way to balance the format in a way that bans did instead of power creeping every deck by a turn. It feels like now every modern deck plays the same 45 cards and youre creativity slots are limited to like 15 cards
That’s way more palatable imo, I’d like to see less new format staples and more tools to help low tier/home brew decks.
I do kinda miss the old labelling on packages about the complexity of each set. Expert was a label could feel like a swcond thougjt on jumping in casually without foreknowledge and familiarity.
The Horizons sets were the best thing to happen to the format honestly. It printed much needed staples in order to balance out the format so certain cards/decks couldn’t swoop in and chokehold the format and the powerful cards in the sets (mainly MH2) check each other. It was a huge success, imo. So many viable brews that can made now, the format is very unexplored.
There's a concept in economics/engineering that applies here: when the metric is the target, it stops being a reliable metric. GDP is a good example, as China has been artificially inflating GDP for decades; VW and their emissions cheating is another one.
What does this have to do with MH sets? Well, the great thing about modern was always that the sets were designed for standard, so cards were able to get a new lease on life in the different format: Death's Shadow, Lantern control, 8-Rack and Splinter Twin are all examples of cards/decks that were near unplayable in standard but top tier in modern.
Around 2015 was when we started seeing cards designed FOR Modern that appeared in standard sets (Swiftspear, Allied Fetches, Mentor), and by the first Horizons set the fun format was already almost all "designed for modern" cards (Fatal Push, Walking Ballista, Soul-Scar Mage, Hollow One, The Teferis, allll the Tron hate, etc etc).
So would modern without the Horizons sets be better? Unequivocally yes, but it would still be rife with Designed for Modern mistakes.
I really miss that older era of Magic. I don’t hate that they design cards with other formats in mind, but when it becomes as saturated with MH cards as it has been, it doesn’t feel the same. I also can’t afford $1k every year to keep up with the pushed set that rotates entire formats.
If these sets printed cards for more niche strategies in an attempt to help little guys run amok with the established archetypes, these sets would be great! But unfortunately, as shown with MH2, they will just cram the card pool with ubiquitously powerful, game warping staples, where the barrier to entry is playing "X Color"
These sets have the potential to do good things. In MH2, they made enchantress a viable strategy for modern, which I think is exactly what these sets should be doing.
But I've gotten out of modern ever since MH2, it caused my decks to rotate, and I didn't want to conform to playing different flavors of MH2 piles. The format is a hollow shell of its former self.
Personally, as a commander player, I find the evoke elementals really annoying. A few cards with an alt cost of 0 mana, like Force of Will, is kind of a fun gotcha, but another hyper efficient cycle of them is kind of annoying
I want a Horizonless modern format to get big. That would include the lotrs set too
Additionally, it feels like Hasbro is pushing profits farther by not banning cards like the One Ring, which is in over 40% of decks because it is that generically good. That further stifles creativity if you ask me.
As a EDH player, I'm more or less looking for Commanders that can support some new deck ideas, not too fond of cards that cost 0 though (an evoked Solitude with a flicker/blink effect is pretty nasty)
I like the idea of them and some of the implementation like how I can play Naya Enchantress in Modern
But the power crept designs are so busted: Ragavan, the best dragon friends Murktide and DRC, the reanimation targets. If they make a Pioneer Horizons or MH3, I really hope they tone down the power
Same here, I’d rather not have new cards that the format revolves around
These are a great way to get "parasitic" mechanics more cards in the game
And yet not one more card printed for energy.
The need for constant power creep coupled with an insane release schedule are the real issues
I don't love the warping of the format around the new cards. Modern used to have the unofficial tagline of "build the deck once and play it forever", but all my decks from the mid-2010s are completely unviable today.
Jailer got banned? I mean, I suppose I understand... can someone give me more context tho?
As a commander player I love the legendaries it adds something cool and random
I think adding new and interesting things to a format is usually a good thing...
But modern horizons was a mistake for modern. Murktide and the evoke cards have taken over what was once a very diverse pool of decks immediately.
Hell the izzet Murktide deck is almost entirely cards from Modern Horizons. That should not happen. How is one set so powerful that an entire non-standard deck can be built from it?
One set should not completely redesign a format (outside of standard) and, to those saying it made modern into a rotating format, if you want a rotating format go play standard.
The callbacks and nods to previous cards are great, as are the valuable reprints. The overly pushed BS is not. If Hasbro let wizards focus on quality instead of quantity so these cards could be properly playtested then yes, otherwise no. The damage and homogenization of multiple metagames is pretty lame.
Completely agree, the whole “Modern Horizons block constructed” joke is completely valid at this point. There are maybe 10 spells that originated in Standard legal sets that see play anymore, plus the entire format’s mana bases.
it's hard because these new modern horizons modern staples feel so souless compared to the old staples because the old staples were from actual sets with ACTUAL history. MH cards just kinda showed up one day
Most of those problematic cards are mythic rare so they're supposed to splashy bombs but they just splash so much
Are they bad? you tell me. But for me, I quit mtg entirely apart from commander because of the obnoxious amount of broken free spells and Ragavan, which is my most hated card of all time
Modern horizons basically just makes eternal formats obsolete. You got your old staples for the 10 people who can afford them then all the other decks are just built around whatever bs wotc decided their "experimental set" needed to try out. This is why un sets are necessary to the game, it allows for experimentation without drastic damage to constructed formats
Less $ less power creep like instead of taking five steps let's do 1 or just yeah dial the power creep back a bit
Both MH sets were really just commander sets in disguise
Just curious, why is hogaak banned?
Hogaak was a major reason that the Dredge deck around 2019 was as powerful as it was. Golgari Grave-Troll, Bridge from Below and Faithless Looting all got the ban hammer in the leadup, but Hogaak was always the main problem. There’s a great video by Rhystic Studies about Hogaak Summer.
Thoughts and prayers for the modern format 😢
Gotta love spending hundreds of dollars to keep competitive
@@JayoticMTG that's always been that way
They just should print more....if all could play this
They're healthy for every legal format. A stale format is a stale game. If you stay the same forever, it just becomes a monotone and repetitive game that ends up just causing people to not want to play anymore.
The only fix I see that R&D needs to do their actual job and not just allow the printing of whatever.
I think it’s fine to shake formats up a little, but there has to be a happy medium. The MH3 pro tour was an entirely new Modern format, the previous problem decks barely showed up and now you’re telling players that you need a new $1K+ deck every year or two to keep up?
@@JayoticMTG I agree that the price entry for modern is absurd. Wizard's needs to address this by bringing back MSRP and making sure costs are as low as they can be. They don't lose anything hy having an MSRP.
I don't know anyone who actually plays Modern. I don't know anyone who plays standard or Legacy or pauper....
I’ve never owned a paper Standard deck, and all my Modern decks got soft rotated after Modern Horizons. Now, I stick to Commander in paper and Arena for everything else.
Horizons is a mistake in my eyes. By printing cards into a format with an already high power, you are creating an insane amount of artificial power creep that you wouldn't see in standard for years. I understand wanting to change things up, but if horizons is what it takes, I'm willing to step back to 2018
They warp modern every time they release. Just as they were designed to because a billion dollars of profit isn't enough for daddy WotC. So, yes, they're bad for players.
DRC is breaking legacy, not EI. Prove me wrong
Well, no, but actually yes
I'm glad these cards exist but they seem format warping
That’s mostly my opinion too. I like some designs that came out of the Horizons trilogy, but they came at the cost of my favourite eternal format.
Of course they are some of my favorite sets. Others of mine include Double Masters, Time Spiral block, Mirrodin block, Kamigawa, Onslaught block, there might be a common thread amongst these sets.
Great video
Considering Modern Horizon's 3. I'm inclined to agree
I think MH3 has mostly done a better job of powering up specific archetypes rather than forcing the entire rest of the format to become irrelevant. But we’ve barely scratched the surface of what these cards can do.
More referring to the joke of people calling it "commander horizons" but yeah I see your point
That’s a valid point. Obviously not every card can be a format warping all star, but a lot of these cards lean heavily toward commander.
Yes. Modern is now a rotating format.
Modern is better than it has been in a while. Answers can finally keep up with threats.
We do not need more supplimental products to rotate cards in eternal formats. If it wasnt in standard, then dont let it be in modern.
So what if Modern Horizons was Core set? It’d be okay then?
@Will Jackson correct. But thats just it. Most of these cards would have never been printed into standard.
@@solcloudchaser4988 So what you actually mean is that new Modern cards should be Standard power-level. Just sticking Ragavan, Hogaak, etc into a Standard-legal Core Set would be the same problem as Modern Horizons.
No, i mean that supplemental product is a bad idea regardless. If a card did not exist in a standard legal set, then it shouldn't be allowed in any competitive format. That helps keep power creep incredibly low, keeps several thousand dollar decks from artificially rotating, and doesn't bleed the consumer dry in order to just keep up with meta.
Supplemental products have also helped to kill standard since the giant push to play EDH by wizards has forced them to make changes to card design on standard cards just to be able to sell packs to the people who are used to non MH supplements. Thats why we get EDH cards printed directly into standard now rather than it just being a place to have fun with out old bulk rares.
@@solcloudchaser4988 But simply being printed into Standard doesn't prevent power creep, just look at cards like Uro or Oko. Even if Ragavan or Fury were printed in a Core Set, they'd still dominate Modern...
Like I said before it seems like purely a matter of power level and design, does it really matter if it passes through Standard or straight from a supplemental?
So basically Modern became YuGiOh
Yes. 😂 Shit is so dull. Just do commander sets so commander shit doesn’t have to be in base sets. They just want as much money as possible so they parted up set creation. Give it 5 years there will be weird pioneer sets.
Now that commander is so big, of course they have to pump out interesting, busted new legends to sell packs. That being said, not all legendary creatures are just meant for commander. But the choice to makes commander decks for a modern centric set is bizarre to me
They are bad for every format they are avaliable in including legacy so yes
Don't get me wrong I like the MH sets. However it be nice if they just funnel everything through standard
If they want to reprint various format staples that are not in standard they can bring back the core sets and do a non standard mystical archive style mini set within the core set. I think we'd all be fine with that
Yeah I like magic deep not complex
Yes
No
Basically just screw mh2
Haha. Emphasis on MODERN.
Commander Horizons was a wild set.
Yes. But on that note, they really need to stop banning the wrong cards. Some of the cards they should ban they make staples and the cards that have a harder time finding those other combo pieces they want to kick to the side. They have a problem with trying to make everything way too pushed and honestly it’s annoying. I don’t want to play a 2 hour match but I also don’t want to play a game that only lasts 2 turns either. They really need to find that happy medium and stop focusing on price points. Honestly, they should really make certain sets for certain formats that I avoid that cross over that affects other formats. I mean you can’t play commander specific cards printed in a commander set for modern or standard so why not make modern horizons specific to the modern format. That would even it out…. Just a smidge.
I think MH3 is so far looking like it’ll power up existing low tier decks and create new archetypes (like with Energy). I’d rather future sets look more focused like MH3 rather than printing format warping all stars like MH2.
yes
While I like the Time Spiral-esque keyword mixing, I don’t love it when eternal formats look unrecognizable every couple of years. I’d mostly agree with this now.