I like the Introduction of the Video - A LOT. You literally talking with my words - as a Piano Player, and now learning Classical guitar (last 2 years) - i can tell you - audience have changed. 20 years ago, when i was making concerts on the Piano -i could literally hear when someone was breathing in the Hall (we have an Organ Hall in my town which is one of the biggest in Europe). I had a small concert with the Guitar last week (havent been on state for more then 15 years) - and people were just .... talking to each other lol ..... It was weird, its like musicians are there for decoration, such disrespect for other people's work. Thank you for sharing this with the people - i know its a small thing, but for Musicians - it is not.
Having acquired an Alvarez classical acoustic with both saddle piezo & internal mic placed under the sound board, allowing for a blend of both, finally running through preamp eq and frequency filter works marvelously. It allows for the bass & percussive sounds to come through nice & boomy instead of the "tinny" sounds occurring with use of simple piezo under the saddle.
cool....i just bought a piezo and mic combination onboard preamp with eq, it has a piezo under bridge, and a mic inside, these can be mixed by fader for just piezo or just mic or both .the type you see on acoustics, not classicals, however, i have an old classical that i will butcher and fit it into to test....i cant use mics where i am as its far too noisey outside with trafffic etc, but i need to do direst recording...so this is why i am going this route....cheers.
Hey dude, thanks for the awesome and informative video. Sorry if I missed it somewhere but one thing I'm confused about is what happens in the rig AFTER the microphone. So guitar -> SM57 -> ?? Do you recommend going directly into the venue's PA system if they have one? Or using a pre-amp and then into the venue's PA? Do you recommend using an acoustic amplifier? And would you also mic the amp up? Or run a lineout from the amp into the PA system?
FYI: magnetic pickups work with steel strings, but not with plain nylon strings. The string has to contain some type of metal in order to "disturb" the magnetic field of the magnetic pickup.
Great point Robert. I think Dave just forgot to clarify that. You are right though...some poor soul could go out and buy a Dean Markley or some such sound hole acoustic guitar pickup made for a steel string and first of all it probably would not fit in the classical soundhole and if it did ....it would be slilent 😉...This was a good discussion but really (I think) leaves one more confused about what is the best solution. In Smaller venues and for folks using acoustic amps as their PA, the feedback issue with piezos is very managable.Good sound engineers in larger concert hall situations seem to manage feed back pretty well too as so many people use them even on nylon strings.
Hi, good video. I agree with you about under saddle piezos- in the end I had to let 3 guitars go as the fishman systems just sounded, well tinny and clacky just like piezos do. Plus the cutaways killed the tone acoustically on those guitars - the came from the builders with the fishman system installed. I hVe used condenser mics in live situation but it has it challenges, but at least the guitars sound good. I'd be interested in your opinion of iRig stage (for performing live and recording) - I am a convert. I think it makes piezo systems obsolete- only the best condenser mics outshine it in my opinion. It just clips to your sound home, you plug into it's external preamp and plug your lead into the preamp. The preamp has steel or nylon string settings, 3 EQ presets, an aux in to plug in a piezo etc. but best of all it has feedback cancellation button. If you do a search for iRig vs cherub you can find my demo
Right now I use two different live amplified setups - One is a godin Multiac, by far the best piezo-sounding guitar I've ever used. It would sound exactly like my condenser mics for recording with one flaw - string noise on the left hand - but I've worked 20 years on eliminating most string noise anyway. The other setup is a specialty piezo made by 123sound.jp called the MSP pickup, that hooks up magnetically to your soundboard and delivers really good tone, much better than an under saddle piezo and eliminates string noise. This still has the same problem of all systems attached to acoustic guitars with sound holes - feedback, but it is no worse than any other setup and can be eq'd to eliminate feedback just like anything else. Generally, I just go for the godin these days since it is so hassle-free and never, ever feeds back. I can try out the irig.
Nice Bulerias at the start ! Here's a demo I made of a budget soundhole condenser mic and stacked humbucker for acoustic guitar. The humbucker sounds like a cheap humbucker and does not sense the bronze wound strings but you'd expect that. But for the price the condenser mic does a good job
Fantastic video! A real class! It's so sad you have so few views. I'm thinking about start using soundboard transducer pickups on my guitars. But here in Brazil it's hard to find them. I have a cheap one that I can equalize and take a interesting sound, but it's not what I want yet... Do you know the Fishman SBT? I'm searching some samples but could only find one video here on UA-cam... Cheers from Brazil!
Thank you, very clear explanation. I'd never considered some of that stuff-- re. sound hole, why piezoelectric sound so tinny. That's a fantastic guitar!! Who is the maker?
Bruce Wood from Santa Barbara made the guitar. You can actually see this very guitar on his website as the "example" guitar for his classical model, but it is definitely a flamenco guitar.
Well... I got here because I was looking for trials of TC Helicon Body Rez pedal on nylon guitars with piezos. The device does a fairly good job on steel acoustic guitars but I wanted to add a bit of life to the sound of my cheap classical when captured via the piezo pickup. It's basically an EQ, but carefully designed. So, it may be an answer to your final question. However, a guy on sweetwater commented that Body Rez is awful on nylon guitars, it was the only negative comment there so I wanted to investigate a bit more. On a final note, nice vid, thumbs up! :)
+surfwithaliens I also have a review of a Japanese made pickup called MSP that sound pretty decent on a classical guitar. It's also not permanent, which is great for my guitars that I shutter to drill holes in. And thanks for watching!
Hello David, my name is Carlos I’m a guitarist in San Antonio Texas and I came across your video as I was looking for something else. I completely understand your dilemma in trying to find that ideal option for how to amplify a flamenco guitar. I have tried many different pick ups and I also agree with you and the fact that the best option is to use a microphone so, I wanted to share with you a pick up that I found a couple years ago and so far in my opinion, is the best pick for a Flamenco or Classical guitar. It is made by a company in California called MiniFlex. I know you most likely already know about this but I just thought I’d mention it just in case. I have their Model 1 2-mic pick up in my flamenco guitar and though feedback is always a risk, I have to tell you that this thing is extremely high feedback resistant and I have used it to play in very large venues with big sound system set up’s… And, every time I get compliments on the sound of the instrument (most times by musicians). Here’s the link and I you’ve not heard if it, I would highly recommend you try it. www.miniflexmic.com/products/model_1.htm Blessings, Carlos
Not sure, if I understood everything, because I am either too tired, or I my english lacks off.(might as well watch the video again) As an example: I have a classic guitar, and I might wanna play in a loud enviorment, so build in Pre-Amp, a micro inside the guitar and a Pickup. So I am able to pick almost all of it, but the trade-off is the feedback, is that right? Is there another trade-off, if I drill and cut in some holes in my guitar? I mean, it scares me, if the sound of the guitar changes, due to all that, if I play on it my room without an amp connected, just for myself. I apologise, if something's unclear and would thank you for an answer. Love from germany!
Great informative video David. How's the search for the 'Holy Grail' of guitar amplification? Any closer to that authentic yet amplified sound? Best! Don
@@DVSPress Gotcha, thanks for the reply David! I'm a casual player myself, and I'm doing some digging and tinkering (back into my hobby of building speakers) to try to solve this age-old problem! ;)
Is it some kind of solid travellers classic guitar you have here @21.41 can you give a reference? ua-cam.com/video/5fDo_SSFy4A/v-deo.html What do you think about LR Bags combined system? Thanks
What about the Córdoba 55FCE? It has a piezo plus a microphone inside the guitar, and you can mix these to signals or chose one of them. I am playing a classical guitar now. It is made of rosewood and spruce. I am currently practicing Asturias. My guitar feels a little lose and sloppy for Asturias. I don't know if it will help to lower the strings? Or if I need to buy a Flamenco guitar? I definitely want to develop some flamenco techniques and learn some flamenco songs. Hope you can help. Normally I only play fingerstyle Country music.
David Stewart I changed the strings not long ago. I remember choosing high tension instead of soft tension. I don't know if I can other guitar strings brands have even higher tension. The local guitar luthier is closed for the summer. I will go to speak with him about string height when he opens again.
Thank you. As a flamenco guitarist I already know the diffrerences: I´m running Germanys biggest Community on classical & flamenco guitar. Bruce Wood is quite unknown in Germany. Saludos, con mucha harmonía y compás ;-) Bernd
Nice video! Would a shure sm57 microphone, a small acoustic guitar amplifier and a flamenco guitar give a lot of feedback when used in small rooms. Just for personal practice. Thanks!
Nor would I - I also have a video on a magnetic pickup that is an option as well - the MSP pickup (full disclosure - they gave it to me for free). There are other non-permanent, non-damaging options as well if you are looking for amplification.
Can you make a video on how to have stings last longer? I got a new guitar and the 4th 5th and 6th strings seem to be damaged on the frets I play a lot on, and now the have a awful buzz.
+1997RJK Yeah I can. Keep in mind there are no "secrets." Different people approach string wear with different mentalities. I can probably do that in the next few days.
Run it on a clean channel and add a touch of reverb and/or put the amp behind you facing a back wall. This will make it sound more like it is mic'd in a hall than like a piezo. Cheers!
I like the Introduction of the Video - A LOT.
You literally talking with my words - as a Piano Player, and now learning Classical guitar (last 2 years) - i can tell you - audience have changed. 20 years ago, when i was making concerts on the Piano -i could literally hear when someone was breathing in the Hall (we have an Organ Hall in my town which is one of the biggest in Europe).
I had a small concert with the Guitar last week (havent been on state for more then 15 years) - and people were just .... talking to each other lol .....
It was weird, its like musicians are there for decoration, such disrespect for other people's work.
Thank you for sharing this with the people - i know its a small thing, but for Musicians - it is not.
I wonder what happened. When I was a kid, we went to the orchestra and had basic ettiquette even when young.
David, thank you for a great commentary relevant for making nice sounds on acoustic! Very informative video. I learned a lot.
Having acquired an Alvarez classical acoustic with both saddle piezo & internal mic placed under the sound board, allowing for a blend of both, finally running through preamp eq and frequency filter works marvelously. It allows for the bass & percussive sounds to come through nice & boomy instead of the "tinny" sounds occurring with use of simple piezo under the saddle.
Yeah for sure Julio and in 2021 progress seems to have been further made.
cool....i just bought a piezo and mic combination onboard preamp with eq, it has a piezo under bridge, and a mic inside, these can be mixed by fader for just piezo or just mic or both .the type you see on acoustics, not classicals, however, i have an old classical that i will butcher and fit it into to test....i cant use mics where i am as its far too noisey outside with trafffic etc, but i need to do direst recording...so this is why i am going this route....cheers.
Hey dude, thanks for the awesome and informative video. Sorry if I missed it somewhere but one thing I'm confused about is what happens in the rig AFTER the microphone. So guitar -> SM57 -> ?? Do you recommend going directly into the venue's PA system if they have one? Or using a pre-amp and then into the venue's PA? Do you recommend using an acoustic amplifier? And would you also mic the amp up? Or run a lineout from the amp into the PA system?
FYI: magnetic pickups work with steel strings, but not with plain nylon strings. The string has to contain some type of metal in order to "disturb" the magnetic field of the magnetic pickup.
Great point Robert. I think Dave just forgot to clarify that. You are right though...some poor soul could go out and buy a Dean Markley or some such sound hole acoustic guitar pickup made for a steel string and first of all it probably would not fit in the classical soundhole and if it did ....it would be slilent 😉...This was a good discussion but really (I think) leaves one more confused about what is the best solution. In Smaller venues and for folks using acoustic amps as their PA, the feedback issue with piezos is very managable.Good sound engineers in larger concert hall situations seem to manage feed back pretty well too as so many people use them even on nylon strings.
Thank you, very informative. Not a rant at all.
Excellent explanation! Thank you!!!
thank you from dubai and philippines
Hi, good video.
I agree with you about under saddle piezos- in the end I had to let 3 guitars go as the fishman systems just sounded, well tinny and clacky just like piezos do. Plus the cutaways killed the tone acoustically on those guitars - the came from the builders with the fishman system installed.
I hVe used condenser mics in live situation but it has it challenges, but at least the guitars sound good.
I'd be interested in your opinion of iRig stage (for performing live and recording) - I am a convert. I think it makes piezo systems obsolete- only the best condenser mics outshine it in my opinion. It just clips to your sound home, you plug into it's external preamp and plug your lead into the preamp. The preamp has steel or nylon string settings, 3 EQ presets, an aux in to plug in a piezo etc. but best of all it has feedback cancellation button.
If you do a search for iRig vs cherub you can find my demo
Right now I use two different live amplified setups - One is a godin Multiac, by far the best piezo-sounding guitar I've ever used. It would sound exactly like my condenser mics for recording with one flaw - string noise on the left hand - but I've worked 20 years on eliminating most string noise anyway. The other setup is a specialty piezo made by 123sound.jp called the MSP pickup, that hooks up magnetically to your soundboard and delivers really good tone, much better than an under saddle piezo and eliminates string noise. This still has the same problem of all systems attached to acoustic guitars with sound holes - feedback, but it is no worse than any other setup and can be eq'd to eliminate feedback just like anything else.
Generally, I just go for the godin these days since it is so hassle-free and never, ever feeds back. I can try out the irig.
Thanks for the tip, I will look those up - the iRig is great, but I am concerned about the longevity of the thin cable...
David Stewart Hello! I cannot find a link for the godin multiac. Could you please provide a link to where I can buy one per your recommendation?
Nice Bulerias at the start !
Here's a demo I made of a budget soundhole condenser mic and stacked humbucker for acoustic guitar. The humbucker sounds like a cheap humbucker and does not sense the bronze wound strings but you'd expect that. But for the price the condenser mic does a good job
Fantastic video! A real class! It's so sad you have so few views. I'm thinking about start using soundboard transducer pickups on my guitars. But here in Brazil it's hard to find them. I have a cheap one that I can equalize and take a interesting sound, but it's not what I want yet... Do you know the Fishman SBT? I'm searching some samples but could only find one video here on UA-cam... Cheers from Brazil!
Thank you, very clear explanation. I'd never considered some of that stuff-- re. sound hole, why piezoelectric sound so tinny.
That's a fantastic guitar!! Who is the maker?
Bruce Wood from Santa Barbara made the guitar. You can actually see this very guitar on his website as the "example" guitar for his classical model, but it is definitely a flamenco guitar.
Awesome video!
+Elliott Mills Thanks so much for watching!
Well... I got here because I was looking for trials of TC Helicon Body Rez pedal on nylon guitars with piezos. The device does a fairly good job on steel acoustic guitars but I wanted to add a bit of life to the sound of my cheap classical when captured via the piezo pickup. It's basically an EQ, but carefully designed. So, it may be an answer to your final question. However, a guy on sweetwater commented that Body Rez is awful on nylon guitars, it was the only negative comment there so I wanted to investigate a bit more. On a final note, nice vid, thumbs up! :)
+surfwithaliens I also have a review of a Japanese made pickup called MSP that sound pretty decent on a classical guitar. It's also not permanent, which is great for my guitars that I shutter to drill holes in. And thanks for watching!
Hello David, my name is Carlos I’m a guitarist in San Antonio Texas and I came across your video as I was looking for something else. I completely understand your dilemma in trying to find that ideal option for how to amplify a flamenco guitar. I have tried many different pick ups and I also agree with you and the fact that the best option is to use a microphone so, I wanted to share with you a pick up that I found a couple years ago and so far in my opinion, is the best pick for a Flamenco or Classical guitar. It is made by a company in California called MiniFlex. I know you most likely already know about this but I just thought I’d mention it just in case. I have their Model 1 2-mic pick up in my flamenco guitar and though feedback is always a risk, I have to tell you that this thing is extremely high feedback resistant and I have used it to play in very large venues with big sound system set up’s… And, every time I get compliments on the sound of the instrument (most times by musicians).
Here’s the link and I you’ve not heard if it, I would highly recommend you try it.
www.miniflexmic.com/products/model_1.htm
Blessings,
Carlos
This is interesting .
Not sure, if I understood everything, because I am either too tired, or I my english lacks off.(might as well watch the video again)
As an example: I have a classic guitar, and I might wanna play in a loud enviorment, so build in Pre-Amp, a micro inside the guitar and a Pickup. So I am able to pick almost all of it, but the trade-off is the feedback, is that right?
Is there another trade-off, if I drill and cut in some holes in my guitar? I mean, it scares me, if the sound of the guitar changes, due to all that, if I play on it my room without an amp connected, just for myself. I apologise, if something's unclear and would thank you for an answer. Love from germany!
Great informative video David. How's the search for the 'Holy Grail' of guitar amplification? Any closer to that authentic yet amplified sound?
Best!
Don
No luck just yet, but I don't play live as often, just record, and it's not an issue for that :)
@@DVSPress Gotcha, thanks for the reply David! I'm a casual player myself, and I'm doing some digging and tinkering (back into my hobby of building speakers) to try to solve this age-old problem! ;)
Is it some kind of solid travellers classic guitar you have here @21.41 can you give a reference? ua-cam.com/video/5fDo_SSFy4A/v-deo.html What do you think about LR Bags combined system? Thanks
What kind of Amp would you recommend for Classical guitar?
The Roland acoustic ac 30 or ac 60 is really nice. Also has an anti feedback switch on it and a really nice sounding reverb as well
What about the Córdoba 55FCE? It has a piezo plus a microphone inside the guitar, and you can mix these to signals or chose one of them.
I am playing a classical guitar now. It is made of rosewood and spruce. I am currently practicing Asturias. My guitar feels a little lose and sloppy for Asturias. I don't know if it will help to lower the strings? Or if I need to buy a Flamenco guitar? I definitely want to develop some flamenco techniques and learn some flamenco songs. Hope you can help. Normally I only play fingerstyle Country music.
+Morten Nielsen try harder tension strings first. And if your guitar works for you it works for you.
David Stewart I changed the strings not long ago. I remember choosing high tension instead of soft tension. I don't know if I can other guitar strings brands have even higher tension.
The local guitar luthier is closed for the summer. I will go to speak with him about string height when he opens again.
whats the piece name at the beginning? if it has one
hello i need replace my old preamp inside my classic guitar, what model can i choose? have you read about Shadow SH 4020-C Preamp w/Nanoflex?
Sorry, haven't tried it.
Thank you for this video. Your flamenca negra sounds very punchy and crispy. Which guitar is it?
Bruce Wood #90. I have another video somewhere I compare it to my classical so you can hear the tonal differences
Thank you. As a flamenco guitarist I already know the diffrerences: I´m running Germanys biggest Community on classical & flamenco guitar. Bruce Wood is quite unknown in Germany.
Saludos, con mucha harmonía y compás ;-)
Bernd
Nice video! Would a shure sm57 microphone, a small acoustic guitar amplifier and a flamenco guitar give a lot of feedback when used in small rooms. Just for personal practice. Thanks!
Probably not, but it depends on the positioning of all three and how much natural reverb there is in the room.
thank you very much, i will give that a try as i do not want to drill a hole in my Valeriano Bernal guitar!
Nor would I - I also have a video on a magnetic pickup that is an option as well - the MSP pickup (full disclosure - they gave it to me for free). There are other non-permanent, non-damaging options as well if you are looking for amplification.
Can you make a video on how to have stings last longer? I got a new guitar and the 4th 5th and 6th strings seem to be damaged on the frets I play a lot on, and now the have a awful buzz.
+1997RJK Yeah I can. Keep in mind there are no "secrets." Different people approach string wear with different mentalities. I can probably do that in the next few days.
+1997RJK ua-cam.com/video/IOa0zcYfenI/v-deo.html
Ant my tips for amplifying a nylon string with a piezo and an electric guitar amp? I just want lug 2 guitars and 2 amps
Run it on a clean channel and add a touch of reverb and/or put the amp behind you facing a back wall. This will make it sound more like it is mic'd in a hall than like a piezo. Cheers!
I don't think so, Tim.
Sorry couldn't help it