@@olteddersThere's an old Daily Show clip where (I think) Stephen Colbert is interviewing a GOP state rep who wants the Ten Commandments posted in public buildings. Colbert asks him to recite them, and the stupid clown can't even name half of them.
That concept would have made no sense to them. Wives and children were treated as property. Personal relationships were understood much differently then.
You mean the anonymous authors. Moses didn't write the books. Interesting: Rabbis attributed the book of Job also to Moses. This Shows that they had no clue who wrote their books, they just attribute books to "authorities" to have authority over others.
@@cman04 What arguments are used I find Dan's summary pretty fair. Eg Incrementalism was a key element in this discussion ua-cam.com/video/NpnN2_c1Cq8/v-deo.html
There is a UA-cam guy named Abdu Murray who did that just the other day, made a completely wrong video about how the Bible was against slavery. All the comments were variations on :What on earth are you talking about?"
@@cman04 That's hilarious, how could you be so confused when Paul doesn't even want women to speak at meetings. Do you think there was originally a footnote at the bottom exempting churches from the neither male nor female thing? LOL
@@cman04 maybe Galatians 3 : 28 indirectly contradicts all the provisions and laws about slavery elsewhere in the Bible. It says that followers of Christ are all one in him, right? That doesn't directly say anything about ending or being against slavery. And if it did, it would be a formal contradiction.
@@wormwood822 the Bible also doesn't directly condemn drug addition or alcoholism, pornography, gluttony, racism, etc. Does that mean the Bible condones these things? No. Of course not. However, there are instructions on how we are to respect and treat our bodies and others. Through this we can infer that the items I mentioned would NOT be condoned. In other words, omission doesn't equate to endorsement. That would be an argument from silence fallacy, aka argumentum ex silentio. This is a fallacy that occurs when someone draws a definitive conclusion based off of the absence of information. Dan does this quite often, btw.
God told the Israelites that they were the first among the tribes that he had created to worship him and, for all intents and purposes, be his slaves and servants. It's no real surprise then that they felt entitled to do the same with the lesser people around them.
"Cognitive dissonance" is when you feel bad about conflicting ideas. Not when you find a way to accept those conflicting ideas. That's usually compartmentalization - this idea only applies in this circumstance, and the other only applies in this other circumstance. "Loce thy neighbor" only applies to white folk who love me back, see? Cognitive dissonance is one of the major reasons people question their faith, because it makes them (correctly) feel something isn't right.
Because these days, it seems to us that slavery is so obviously wrong. Yet the bible is supposed to put forth good moral precepts, so this causes cognitive dissonance and makes people uncomfortable. So they try to negotiate in order to ease that discomfort they're feeling. They want the best of both worlds, because they're even more uncomfortable admitting the bible isn't what they insist it is.
Good summary! Cognitive dissonance indeed. Sometimes it seems like what Dan calls "negotiating with the text" could just as easily be called "resolving cognitive dissonance." And I say this as someone who had to resolve cognitive dissonance by abandoning doctrines of biblical liberalism and divine inspiration!
Cherry picking. When you ask them why God orders the illing of children, they will say well God didn't want to leave children growing up without a father. 😂
@@cman04 Titus 2:9 S*aves are to submit to their own masters in everything Colossians 3:22 S*aves, obey your earthly masters Ephesians 5:22 Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord
This is funny Dan. I just wrote a paper the other day using a video you did about renegotiating the Bible to justify and condone slavery. We read Denmark Vessey in my Graduate class last week. Thanks for the good videos you do!
People are raised to think God = good. So, anything God does in the bible HAS to be good. Watch how they tie themselves in knots defending mass slaughter under Joshua. Once you start with the irrefutable premise that God MUST be good, you have no other options. You must defend everything He does or give up your belief. Sadly, people would rather make excuses for slavery and mass slaughter than give up belief in a supernatural deity.
OR you can believe God is good, and just not believe that the Bible is the literal word of God and instead believe that its authors were flawed and subject to their own flawed judgment and ideas
In the New Testament I always taken it to be more of an acceptance that slavery exists and in that context require that the owner treats their slave justly. It’s worth noting that in the Greco-Roman world women had no status in society except that of the relevant male in their life be he their father, grandfather, husband, adult brother, adult son. They were not slaves but they still were not free with rights. However Gods ideal society is laid out in Galatians 3v28 ‘There is no longer Jew or Greek, there is no longer slave or free man, there is no longer male or female. For all of you are one in Christ Jesus’
They aren't convinced. They know the Abrahamic deity not only endorses slavery - it loves and celebrates it. These people make such a fuss about because they WANT to be convinced of it. They hope that eventually they'll convince not others, but themselves.
Nowhere in the Bible is slavery ever endorsed or celebrated. And Galatians 3:28 states all all people, including slaves, are considered equal in the eyes of God.
@@cman04 you dont know your bible😂 Paul says 4 times to s...aves to obey their masters like they would obey Jesus😂 the Torah even allows to buy and to sell
Oh, how lovely to see the wonderful Dr. Hector Avalos' work mentioned. What a great man and scholar. QEPD. Edit: can we campaign somehow for an e-book of this volume?
*Slavery* Except for murder, slavery has got to be one of the most immoral things a person can do. Yet slavery is rampant throughout the Bible in both the Old and New Testaments. The Bible clearly approves of slavery in many passages, and it goes so far as to tell how to obtain slaves, how hard you can beat them, and when you can have sex with the female slaves. Many Jews and Christians will try to ignore the moral problems of slavery by saying that these slaves were actually servants or indentured servants. Many translations of the Bible use the word “servant”, “bondservant”, or “manservant” instead of “slave” to make the Bible seem less immoral than it really is. While many slaves may have worked as household servants, that doesn’t mean that they were not slaves who were bought, sold, and treated worse than livestock. *The following passage shows that slaves are clearly property to be bought and sold like livestock.* However, you may purchase male or female *slaves* from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your *slaves* like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT) *The following passage describes how the Hebrew slaves are to be treated.* If you buy a Hebrew *slave,* he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your *slave* and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a *slave,* then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a *slave,* and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the *slave* may plainly declare, ‘I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.’ If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the *slave* will belong to his master forever. (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT) Notice how they can get a male Hebrew *slave* to become a permanent slave by keeping his wife and children hostage until he says he wants to become a permanent *slave.* What kind of family values are these? *The following passage describes the sickening practice of sex slavery. How can anyone think it is moral to sell your own daughter as a sex slave?* When a man sells his daughter as a *slave,* she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the *slave* girl’s owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a *slave* girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT) So these are the Bible family values! A man can buy as many sex *slaves* as he wants as long as he feeds them, clothes them, and has sex with them! *What does the Bible say about beating slaves? It says you can beat both male and female slaves with a rod so hard that as long as they don’t die right away you are cleared of any wrongdoing.* When a man strikes his male or female *slave* with a rod so hard that the *slave* dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the *slave* survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the *slave* is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB) *You would think that Jesus and the New Testament would have a different view of slavery, but slavery is still approved of in the New Testament, as the following passages show.* *Slaves,* obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT) Christians who are *slaves* should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT) *In the following parable, Jesus clearly approves of beating slaves even if they didn’t know they were doing anything wrong.* The *servant* will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. “But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given.” (Luke 12:47-48 NLT)
All wrote by Man, edited by Man, powerful men trying to control and enslave the world, by chasing false words and promoting this sinful behavior you give evil flawed God power. It started with the back translation of the Old testament, going from Greek to the dead hebrew language.
there has not been a single instance since the first syllable was penned that people haven't been trying to knead it into something socially acceptable
A similar thing happened in the early 20th century when the status of women was undergoing a social revolution to approach that of men instead of being a permanent legal minor & always under the mastership of a man be he her father, husband, uncle, adult son.
To quote Dan, " we cannot but renegotiate with the text." Everyone has always had to renegotiate what has been written whether it's ancient or postmodern readers.
@@SethRGray This is my belief as well. ButI asked Dan specifically because I am interested in the data to prove (or possibly disprove) our shared preconception.
The idea that God could not just abolish slavery at that time shows a typical lack of imagination in modern believers of just what an all powerful God would be capable of: "Free all your slaves within 2 days", God thunders to the Israelites. 2 days past, some do it, many don't. Those who don't *instantly* immolate, painfully burning to death before everyone's eyes, even the ones who tried to cheat and secretly keep slaves. Now...do you *seriously* think that, after seeing that right before them, the survivors would remain so stiff-necked that they would keep the practice alive? Or is this somehow not within God's power to do?
It's amazing that so many people think we should use the Bible as our basis for moral code, but I truly wonder if they have actually read the thing. Just reading the first five books of the Old Testament will show many things which us modern human beings would find offensive and abhorrent. There's a debate on UA-cam between Alex Connor and Ben Shapiro that talks about the Bible and slavery in particular. I recommend watching it. Alex is a very shrewd and level-headed atheist. he reminds me of Christopher Hitchens but without the anger. (I miss Chris though!)
In addition to Dan's book recommendation there is a fantastic open access book on biblical slavery written by Thom Stark. It's called "Is God A Moral Compromiser?"
YHWH, was a war/slave monger. It's arguable that war and slavery are the two greatest sins imaginable. There's some serious cognitive dissonance when you realize that war and slavery were YHWH's jam.
Not sure why he left out the most common tactic of apologists, which he has addressed in other videos, namely that the slavery in the Bible was really just voluntary debt servitude that ended after seven years. He has another video that blasts this excuse to smithereens and shows that while fellow Hebrews got preferred treatment, the Bible was fine with chattel slavery against non-Hebrews.
A figure frequently referenced by evangelical ministers is John Wesley and his anti-slavery pamphlet. I read it. It's a remarkable document. But quite tellingly, his argument is entirely based on Enlightenment views of human rights, a secular argument....and not one reference to the Bible. NOT ONE. And he is held up as "proof" that slavery wouldn't have disappeared without Christianity.
Yes. The problem is probably that slavery was so entrenched that they might think, “I, as a slave owner, can’t be freed, so I wouldn’t have the slave free me - so I don’t have to free them.” There are several verses showing that the Christian authors saw slavery as virtually holy.
my example was very specific, but there are two general principles at play: 1) the is not univocal. 2) our interpretation from our modern perspective is often not how people of first C Hellenized Jewish culture would have understood it
More-so than the Golden Rule, the focus is often placed on the Pauline Epistle _Philemon._ This New Testament letter from Paul to Philemon discusses treatment of a converted runaway enslaved person Paul meets while imprisoned. Onesimus (the enslaved) is part of a local group of Christians who visit and care for Paul and the two men become quite close. Paul describes Onesimus as a son and views himself as a father in the faith. Onesimus confides his status to Paul and it is decided he must return to Philemon (his “master”) as a matter of conscience and so he might receive a change in status. Paul implores Philemon in the letter to receive Onesimus back “no longer as a slave but more than a slave, a beloved brother … both in the flesh* and in the Lord.” (*the legal status change) Paul goes on to say things like: • “Welcome him as you would me.” • “If he wronged/owes you, charge me.” Dan is right that modern believers don’t like to focus on the parts of scripture that accept slavery as a practice. Seminaries downplay it by focusing on debt-slavery and tend to pass over war-slavery. If one does bring up war-slavery, they point out that it was phased out as a practice by the first century CE and that “only” debt-slavery and voluntary servitude were practiced. They don’t discuss the fact that, as a vassal state under Rome, they no longer had the opportunity to go to war and, therefore, could not practice war-slavery due to that.
Paul seemed to believe that slaves were as much humans as anyone else. "There is neither slave nor free; there is neither male nor female; for we are all one in Christ". Even if you take this to imply that slaves should still fulfill their roles, I think it implies that slaves were equally important and equally eligible to be exalted before God and a part of Christ. To Paul, the ultimate goal was to be a "slave for Christ", so anyone, no matter what role they had in society, was to be equally committed to being a slave for Christ, or as I interpret it, being as good and righteous as they could be. To do unto others as you would do unto yourself would be to treat everyone as equals--equality being something we value hugely today. If you don't take the Bible as inerrant and univocal, you could put the record of Jesus's words in the gospels above anything else in the Bible.
@@inafridge8573 ““seems to,” Maybe for a few verses (Galatians 3:26-29), “no slaves no master, no male no female,” etc. But that is “in Christ,” and for *“Abraham’s heirs* according to the promise,” *not* in a “slavery should not exist on Earth” sense. Can slaves be Abraham’s heirs, according to Paul? Paul continues his nice-sounding verse from Galatians chapter 3 and in 4:22-31 tells us how great it was that God excluded slaves, born outside of the promise, from being part of His covenant. So when we get to the details, Paul thinks slavery is a very good thing that God uses to separate people
There is a 4th excuse I've seen handed out whereby slavery was like baseball players being property to a club! And they could be brought and sold like them.
Why am I convinced that people are slaves to corruption? ...in hope that creation itself would be set free from slavery to corruption (Rom 8:20-21 NABO)
So it couldn't be that "the Bible" is a human document written by human authors in response to their human ideas of the divine and therefore reflects their human imperfections and perceptions, could it?
Any time anyone tries to use the Bible as a cub to beat LGBTQI folk with, remember that, if they can decide the Bible doesn't support slavery, they can decide it doesn't condemn being LGBTQI. We've just got to keep piling on the pressure to make compassion and justice win out.
The despicable rationalization I used to encounter is the one that claims the 1st century Mediterranean "slavery" Paul was addressing wasn't anything like the "slavery" practiced in the pre-Civil War South. Basically attempting to paint 1st century slaves as the equivalent of domestic servants or simply "employees". One pastor extolled from the pulpit, "When Paul advises 'slaves obey your masters' what are we to make of it? Well, do you work for someone? Do you have an employer? Paul wants you to respect your boss and follow the policies of your workplace." 😆
Wow, it’s kinda crazy to admit that biblicaly, in a Christian country, the confederates was right about their right to slavery using the bible as a tool ! That means that the bible is an ancient book and should be treated like that in our modern era. We should not apply the bible (or at least some part of its principals) in our modern society. Or we should pick and choose wisely by putting everything in context. That’s the best way to do if you are a Christian.
The CURRENT Republican candidate for the governor of North Carolina is on tape saying, "Slavery wasn't a bad thing, I would own a few right now". Don't believe me, google "Mark Robinson on slavery" and see for yourself.
Another great analysis, Dan. This is the thing.....these people MUST believe that God was the actual author of scripture (though The Bible itself never suggests that....only that God "breathed life" into the scripture that was written...but then that itself was written by Human men). If they were to even entertain the thought that The Bible could be horribly wrong about slavery or genocide (and The Bible absolutely states QUITE clearly that it is God who not only approves of slavery, but is actually the one who sets down the rules of who can be slaves and who can't....and it is God who directs the Israelites to carry out genocides on various other peoples, even to "ripping open the bellies" of their pregnant women), then they would forced to admit that Human men could have also infused other scriptures with their opinions, prejudices, and societal "norms" of the times, even to things like homosexuality, and they are absolutely NOT under ANY circumstances going to give up their fanatical hatred of LGBTQ people. In fact the one thing that drives them into the greatest frenzy is the fact that, while Christ felt that certain issues, like adultery, were important enough to address, He never once even mentions homosexuality in four Gospels.....and things He DOES address, like rich people being likely to be denied Heaven, or those who ignore or mistreat the poor, the sick, and the marginalized (which would include the homeless and migrants) going to their "eternal punishment", they have no problem simply dismissing those teachings and rarely (if ever) mentioning them.
I think there is a difference between "endorse" and "condone". The culture in the bible definitely condoned slavery. But I don't see any verses that praises the wonders of slavery. Or even recommends it as something that is good. All we have are a bunch of rules and regulations in regards to legally handling slaves. Slavery for the most part is talked about with a level of indifference.
Splitting these hairs is an attempt to soften the immorality of the practice. Sure, it wasn’t outright ordered, but it certainly was allowed. This doesn’t make slavery moral somehow. We’re still talking about permitting the practice of owning another human being as a possession.
@@MrMattSax Its the job of historians to split hairs in order to get the most accurate portrait of history as possible. They don't do it to try to "soften" a practice. But to paint a more accurate picture. So to say slavery was "endorsed" in the biblical text would be inaccurate.
@@ScholarVisual I think at a point we’re arguing semantics. “Endorse” would imply some sort of public approval, but allowing something and not outright forbidding or condemning it could be interpreted as a tacit endorsement.
@@MrMattSax To condone is to ALLOW something. To endorse is to PROMOTE something. The US government ALLOWS cigarette smoking. The US government does not ENDORSE cigarette smoking. I'm not defending the US government when I say they dont endorse it. Im not an apologist. Im simply talking about what is more accurate. The Bible ALLOWS for slavery, but I have not seen one verse that ENDORESES it.
@@ScholarVisual I think that’s fair. It is true that the Yahweh character does not command slavery, but he certainly permits it and I don’t think that makes it any less immoral.
If you can put in rules about what you can’t eat and wear you can put in rules about not owning people. And if god can’t come down and smite those who didn’t follow the rules (like he often did) then maybe he wasn’t so mighty.
The Bible is a very long book that says a lot of different things, and most people ignore the context of any specific verse they like. As thus, if you decide a priori that the Bible needs to condemn slavery, there's plenty of verses to pick from to agree with that point of view.
Unfortunately you can only arrive at a condemnation of slavery in the Bible by pointing out that if X is true then Y must be necessary. There’s no direct statement of condemnation.
@@mrq6270 Yes. But it would have been nice for him to have said that. The abolitionists didn't ignore the text. It makes sense: look at all the Christian imagery that was adopted by the (former) slaves themselves. They embraced the whole idea of the Exodus, linking themselves with the Israelites. I can come up with an argument off the top of my head: If God freed the Israelites because they followed him, then he must hate slavery when it is used against his people. He has not even mentioned how much the African American embracing of the Bible fits in.
Also, it might have been good to point out that the Black slaves were themselves adopting Christian imagery and adopted a version of Christianity that linked the slaves to the Israelites when they were slaves of Egypt. It's a bit hard to say that the God they were celebrating did not say (in the Bible) that slavery was actually wrong.
Brigham Young was certain that God endorsed slavery when he decided to sign Utah legislation to make both Black & Native American slavery legal in Utah territory. Brigham Young said we are all good or bad (Servant/Slaves) of God. Learning to be a good (Servant/Slave) in this life, prepares a person to be a good servant of God in the next life. Learning to be a good master in this life, prepares a person for the duties & responsibilities of exaltation in the next life. How does one expect to learn how to be a good god without practice? Except he was a lot less benevolent in his speech regarding the descendants of (Cain & Ham) & the Lamanites. He felt that allowing the Lamanites to be slaves to Mormons would give them the opportunity to prove worthiness to be made White again. And that Mormons having Lamanite slaves, prevented them from being sold to someone who would treat them worse. This is one of the biggest evidences that if there is a god, it's a malevolent one!
I actually think you missed two common tactics that I hear regularly: 1. Asserting that ancient slavery was nothing like the slavery practiced in the past few centuries, claiming it was far more just and humane (usually by comparing ancient legislation with the reports from slaves about actual experiences in recent history, rather than comparing legislation to legislation). 2. Claiming that actually all slavery in the Bible is really talking about indentured servitude. This one falls apart fast, but the assertion keeps going strong.
Our current perception is very much shaped by the transatlantic trade. But historically, slavery did come in different flavors. And I only say that in order to be honest. Not to support any notion that slavery was somehow fine in ancient times. Two things that struck me were the notion that during the Arab expansion there were slave armies. It seems like they must’ve been okay with it in some way because when the fighting began they didn’t simply switch sides! Which seems like an obvious option to me. Then also the Arabs sent “slaves” to foreign countries as ambassadors. Which in my head is not a very slave like job. So I think that slave must’ve been a rather broad term. One of these days I should learn more about how these things worked.
The God of the Bible did NOT condone or endorse slavery, people of the Bible did, no question. God did not reveal or inspire everything in the Bible, in fact, on the contrary, he revealed very, very little. We should never confuse the bad actions of someone who believes in God, as actions God endorses or teaches. Personally, I support throwing away the vast majority of the Bible, and a good chunk of the Book of Mormon, that are meaningless or wrong, and focus on the true and correct teachings and principles.
@@marknieuweboer8099 Yes, I'm glad you acknowledge that. :) We can have a consensus and majority vote of what should stay and what should be tossed out.
@MrArtist7777 Yeah, slavery is totally against Yahweh's character. 🙄 --------------------------------------------------------- *This website is designed to spread the vicious truth about the Bible. For far too long priests and preachers have completely ignored the vicious criminal acts that the Bible promotes. The so called God of the Bible makes Osama Bin Laden look like a Boy Scout. This God, according to the Bible, is directly responsible for many mass-murders, rapes, pillage, plunder, slavery, child abuse and killing, not to mention the killing of unborn children.* I have included references to the Biblical passages, so grab your Bible and follow along. *It always amazes me how many times this God orders the killing of innocent people even after the Ten Commandments said Thou shall not kill.* For example, God kills 70,000 innocent people because David ordered a census of the people (1 Chronicles 21). God also orders the destruction of 60 cities so that the Israelites can live there. He orders the killing of all the men, women, and children of each city, and the looting of all of value (Deuteronomy 3). He orders another attack and the killing of all the living creatures of the city: men and women, young, and old, as well as oxen sheep, and asses (Joshua 6). In Judges 21 He orders the murder of all the people of Jabesh-gilead, except for the virgin girls who were taken to be forcibly raped and married. When they wanted more virgins, God told them to hide alongside the road and when they saw a girl they liked, kidnap her and forcibly rape her and make her your wife! *Just about every other page in the Old Testament has God killing somebody!* In 2 Kings 10:18-27, God orders the murder of all the worshipers of a different god in their very own church! In total God kills 371,186 people directly and orders another 1,862,265 people murdered The God of the Bible also allows slavery, including selling your own daughter as a sex slave (Exodus 21:1-11), child abuse (Judges 11:29-40 & Isaiah 13:16), and bashing babies against rocks (Hosea 13:16 & Psalms 137:9). *This type of criminal behavior should shock any moral person.* ***Murder, rape, pillage, plunder, slavery, and child abuse can not be justified by saying that some god says it’s OK.*** If more people would actually sit down and read the Bible there would be a lot more atheists like myself. Jesus also promoted the idea that all men should castrate themselves to go to heaven: For there are eunuchs, that were so born from their mother’s womb: and there are eunuchs, that were made eunuchs by men: and there are eunuchs, that made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven’s sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it (Matthew 19:12). *I don’t know why anyone would follow the teachings of someone who literally tells all men to cut off their privates.* The God of the Bible also was a big fan of ritual human sacrifice and animal sacrifice. *And just in case you are thinking that the evil and immoral laws of the Old Testament are no longer in effect, perhaps you should read where Jesus makes it perfectly clear:* It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid (Luke 16:17). There are many more quotes on this topic at my Do Not Ignore the Old Testament web page. If you follow the links on this site you will learn about all the nasty things in the Bible that are usually not talked about by priests and preachers. EvilBible.com Also watch *Context!!!!!!* by NonStampCollector. (A good video for believers who try and justify Biblical atrocities and immorality by saying "Out of context!)
@@leom6343 God never said it, God never wrote a single word of the Bible and the only quotes we have of God saying anything, is him saying; "this is my beloved son in whom I am well pleased." and: "This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him." Jesus had not yet been resurrected and perfected, so we have to take God the Father/Elohim's, words as pure revelation, and Jesus never said anything about slavery after his resurrection.
i don't think the revival of classical thought played any part in leading to abolitionism since the classics were every bit as pro-slavery as the bible
If god is all powerful and wanted to wean Christians off slavery, why didn't he create a slavery patch, or gum even, rather than just continuing slavery for 1,000s of years?
That's like saying someone who was bullied wouldn't bully or someone who was abused won't abuse. You can question if the Israelites were slaves in Egypt, but they were definitely conquered by Babylon. And at least some of the Hebrew Bible was written after that point. (Some would claim it all was.)
@@turkeypedal truthfully I don't believe the Exodus story is remotely true. Not do I believe that God personally gave them their laws. my point was that if it was true it would have been the time to outlaw slavery
Because those in the Christian cult pick and choose what they want to believe out of the Bible! That’s why there are over 40,000 Christian cultists denominations!
I think it is noncontentious to say that the term "slavery" is used to refer to the ownership of people. What *_EXACTLY_* constitutes ownership? It's more than _control_ of something. It's more than _possession._ It's more than _legal_ possession. By what objective metric can we determine genuine ownership?
Ownership is a human construct and subjective in nature. The only way to have meaningful ownership is the ability to keep someone from taking what you have.
@timothywilliams8530 That non-answer is not in any way helpful. What distinguishes slavery from clientelism, custody, guardianship, or wardship? A distinction that does not manifest in reality is indistinguishable from a distinction that does not exist. We acknowledge that these institutions are not the same thing as slavery, so _why_ not? What _makes_ them not slavery?
@diogeneslamp8004 "Define those four terms first." It's not my assertion. In the interest of the principle of charity, if I intend to dispute something that another interlocutor asserts as true, I am bound to use _that_ person's definitions. However, since you asked, the definitions *I* would use would be as follows: Control: power to influence or direct people's behavior or the course of events Possession: to have and control Legal possession: to have and control by right of law Ownership: exclusive rights and control; in the case of people, said people would have a complete loss of automy These can be distinguished from one another in the following crucial ways. Parents have legal possession of their children; however, custody is not ownership, as children retain their autonomy. Someone who borrows another person's item has legal possession of that item, but this does not constitute a transfer of ownership, either. A person who steals an item from someone else has possession of it, but does not have legal possession of it, nor does this imply a transfer of ownership, and so on. There may be (considerable) overlap in these states, but they demonstratrably aren't equivalent. If I own a book, I can lend it to someone else, keep it to myself, scribble in it, stick things in it, tear pages out, or burn it. It's mine. I have complete control over it. This is the metric *I* use for ownership. I am not the arbiter of meaning, though, which is why I posed the question. My feeling is, if the claim is that Bible condones and endorses the ownership of people, rather than arguing whether or not that is true we should first: 1) Determine a metric for what constitutes ownership 2) Apply the principle of reductio ad absurdum to that metric to ensure it doesn't result in absurdity 3) Compare that metric to what the text explicitly states
Slavery ends when we see one another as brothers and sisters. But that is not yet for most. (Nor was it true of Israel.) So yes, the Bible REGULATES SLAVERY until one is brought to Christ. Paul will say in Galatians that the law was intended to bring us to Christ. When we are brought to Christ, we belong to Christ, and we are neither male, female, nor bond nor free. We are all one in Christ Jesus (Gal. 3:29) So Paul says to Philemon to consider Onesimus -- who had become a Christian -- as a brother rather than his slave. God's way of ending slavery is to bring men and women to brotherhood in Christ.
God does not endorse slavery. He allows slavery. Somewhat similar to divorce, God detests divorce. But allows it. Jesus tells us that Moses allowed divorce because of the Israelites hardness of heart. It is God's desire that we all live peacefully together as brothers and sisters. In these evil times, Jesus tells us that we should love and pray even for our enemies. Micah tells us in chapter 6:8; He has shown you, O man, what is good; and what does the Lord require of you but to do justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God. [This verse has the pure essence of how we should be in this evil world. We have an Advocate who helps us live as we should. Certainly we fail most of the time. One day God will destroy this present heaven and earth and replace it with another heaven and earth in which believers in Jesus will live with Him. "But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, ... idolators, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, ..." It is best to believe that there is an all-powerful God. Rather than a purely random process.]
Dan says about the New Testament (1 Timothy 1:9-10); "kidnapping was not the only way slaves were provisioned". How were involuntary slaves procured if not by kidnapping? "the NT is talking about illegal slave trading". Where in 1 Timothy 1, or elsewhere in the NT, does it limit this to "illegal" as opposed to legal slave trading?
@@timothywilliams8530 How did the nations around them procure involuntary slaves if not by kidnapping? If you purchase an involuntary slave from kidnappers, you also are a kidnapper.
I agree with you, but the people back then didn't see it that way. Also, Leviticus talks about if your slave has children then those children are your property, too.
@@toddbarton1049 Yes for sure, there is slavery and even rules for slavery in the OT. It's the "condones & endorses" conclusion that, while understandable to an extent, is not reflective of God's true position. By the same token, you could also say, the God of the Bible condones and endorses warfare, but by the end of the book turns out, not so much. During the Millennium, under God's government, there will be neither war nor slavery allowed.
@@glenwillson5073 Still defending the fictional Yahweh, Glenny boy? --------------------------------------------------------- *This website is designed to spread the vicious truth about the Bible. For far too long priests and preachers have completely ignored the vicious criminal acts that the Bible promotes. The so called God of the Bible makes Osama Bin Laden look like a Boy Scout. This God, according to the Bible, is directly responsible for many mass-murders, rapes, pillage, plunder, slavery, child abuse and killing, not to mention the killing of unborn children.* I have included references to the Biblical passages, so grab your Bible and follow along. *It always amazes me how many times this God orders the killing of innocent people even after the Ten Commandments said Thou shall not kill.* For example, God kills 70,000 innocent people because David ordered a census of the people (1 Chronicles 21). God also orders the destruction of 60 cities so that the Israelites can live there. He orders the killing of all the men, women, and children of each city, and the looting of all of value (Deuteronomy 3). He orders another attack and the killing of all the living creatures of the city: men and women, young, and old, as well as oxen sheep, and asses (Joshua 6). In Judges 21 He orders the murder of all the people of Jabesh-gilead, except for the virgin girls who were taken to be forcibly raped and married. When they wanted more virgins, God told them to hide alongside the road and when they saw a girl they liked, kidnap her and forcibly rape her and make her your wife! *Just about every other page in the Old Testament has God killing somebody!* In 2 Kings 10:18-27, God orders the murder of all the worshipers of a different god in their very own church! In total God kills 371,186 people directly and orders another 1,862,265 people murdered The God of the Bible also allows slavery, including selling your own daughter as a sex slave (Exodus 21:1-11), child abuse (Judges 11:29-40 & Isaiah 13:16), and bashing babies against rocks (Hosea 13:16 & Psalms 137:9). *This type of criminal behavior should shock any moral person.* ***Murder, rape, pillage, plunder, slavery, and child abuse can not be justified by saying that some god says it’s OK.*** If more people would actually sit down and read the Bible there would be a lot more atheists like myself. Jesus also promoted the idea that all men should castrate themselves to go to heaven: For there are eunuchs, that were so born from their mother’s womb: and there are eunuchs, that were made eunuchs by men: and there are eunuchs, that made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven’s sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it (Matthew 19:12). *I don’t know why anyone would follow the teachings of someone who literally tells all men to cut off their privates.* The God of the Bible also was a big fan of ritual human sacrifice and animal sacrifice. *And just in case you are thinking that the evil and immoral laws of the Old Testament are no longer in effect, perhaps you should read where Jesus makes it perfectly clear:* It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid (Luke 16:17). There are many more quotes on this topic at my Do Not Ignore the Old Testament web page. If you follow the links on this site you will learn about all the nasty things in the Bible that are usually not talked about by priests and preachers. EvilBible.com Also watch *Context!!!!!!* by NonStampCollector. (A good video for believers who try and justify Biblical atrocities and immorality by saying "Out of context!)
"The God of the Bible" and "the authors of the Bible" are not identical. The authors grew up with the assumption that it was a normal part of society. God tells us to love our neighbour. It took a long long while for that to sink in, and we still have a long way to go to appreciate the implications of God's command.
Yes, the authors were real, the Abrahamic god not so much. ------------------------------‐-------------------------- *This website is designed to spread the vicious truth about the Bible. For far too long priests and preachers have completely ignored the vicious criminal acts that the Bible promotes. The so called God of the Bible makes Osama Bin Laden look like a Boy Scout. This God, according to the Bible, is directly responsible for many mass-murders, rapes, pillage, plunder, slavery, child abuse and killing, not to mention the killing of unborn children.* I have included references to the Biblical passages, so grab your Bible and follow along. *It always amazes me how many times this God orders the killing of innocent people even after the Ten Commandments said Thou shall not kill.* For example, God kills 70,000 innocent people because David ordered a census of the people (1 Chronicles 21). God also orders the destruction of 60 cities so that the Israelites can live there. He orders the killing of all the men, women, and children of each city, and the looting of all of value (Deuteronomy 3). He orders another attack and the killing of all the living creatures of the city: men and women, young, and old, as well as oxen sheep, and asses (Joshua 6). In Judges 21 He orders the murder of all the people of Jabesh-gilead, except for the virgin girls who were taken to be forcibly raped and married. When they wanted more virgins, God told them to hide alongside the road and when they saw a girl they liked, kidnap her and forcibly rape her and make her your wife! *Just about every other page in the Old Testament has God killing somebody!* In 2 Kings 10:18-27, God orders the murder of all the worshipers of a different god in their very own church! In total God kills 371,186 people directly and orders another 1,862,265 people murdered The God of the Bible also allows slavery, including selling your own daughter as a sex slave (Exodus 21:1-11), child abuse (Judges 11:29-40 & Isaiah 13:16), and bashing babies against rocks (Hosea 13:16 & Psalms 137:9). *This type of criminal behavior should shock any moral person.* ***Murder, rape, pillage, plunder, slavery, and child abuse can not be justified by saying that some god says it’s OK.*** If more people would actually sit down and read the Bible there would be a lot more atheists like myself. Jesus also promoted the idea that all men should castrate themselves to go to heaven: For there are eunuchs, that were so born from their mother’s womb: and there are eunuchs, that were made eunuchs by men: and there are eunuchs, that made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven’s sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it (Matthew 19:12). *I don’t know why anyone would follow the teachings of someone who literally tells all men to cut off their privates.* The God of the Bible also was a big fan of ritual human sacrifice and animal sacrifice. *And just in case you are thinking that the evil and immoral laws of the Old Testament are no longer in effect, perhaps you should read where Jesus makes it perfectly clear:* It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid (Luke 16:17). There are many more quotes on this topic at my Do Not Ignore the Old Testament web page. If you follow the links on this site you will learn about all the nasty things in the Bible that are usually not talked about by priests and preachers. EvilBible.com Also watch *Context!!!!!!* by NonStampCollector. (A good video for believers who try and justify Biblical atrocities and immorality by saying "Out of context!)
Because even you said in another video (Christians we have to do better at the 3:20 mark) that it is sinful. And the God of the Bible is against sin, so do the math.
Given your credentials, I know you're oversimplifying. But we didn't exactly just get together and decide slavery was bad. It was a huge argument, with both sides utilizing the Bible. The fact that the Bible never explicitly forbids it was irrelevant in these arguments. It was argued based on principle and the horrors of how slavery actually was practiced. When people say the God of the Bible condemns slavery, that is what they are talking about. It's akin to when we say the Constitution gives people a right to marry. No, the original source document doesn't, but an argument was made. Both sides tried to claim that they were correct, but the anti-slavery side won out. You can talk about what the original authors intended. I 100% agree they didn't see any inherent problem with slavery. But do you think the original authors of the US Constitution intended to allow same sex marriages?
That’s a terrible analogy because the Constitution doesn’t mention marriage at all. The bible deals with slaves and slavery in almost every single book.
This would be fine but for the fact that those who have a problem with the Bible because it contains instruction on slavery have very little appreciation for the root causes of slavery or for the passage of history. Which for a historian is a teensy bit embarrassing, Dan. Not good. Let me be clear, I am a combination of a type 2 or type 3 apologist. But from my perspective the Bible - and God's instruction to mitigate its worst effects - came in on slavery when it was endemic, and when the alternatives to slavery were worse. So I have to ask. Which is worse? Slavery, or slaughter and starvation? Because in the bronze age those were pretty much the options available to society.
My own Christian life has taught me that people tend to hear God speak to their preferences. And they tend to not hear God condemn their preferences, just everybody else's. When people realize this you learn quickly that the writers and prophets got a lot correct and a lot wrong. That's why we needed a Messiah to set the record straight on what the Father is really like. We keep what Jesus teaches and we trash anything in the Bible that seems to contradict Jesus principles. And I don't give a damn what any other writer/prophet, book Bible said. When Jesus says to love your enemy, pray for your persecutors, treat others like you want to be treated i just don't care what Moses, David, or Solomon wrote about what to do to an enemy. I don't care that they said God told them. If it doesn't align with Jesus they HEARD WRONG. Always amazes me the folks who believe in the Trinity, say Jesus is God but quote everybody else in the scripture but him. 😳 You'd think Paul, Calvin, Martin Luther was the triune god based on how people act.
"it was actually the effacement of the role of the Bible as an authority that facilitated the overturning of the consensus" "We changed our minds about what we thought was right ...... and ......the Bible begins to take a back seat to other concerns and particularly human rights and natural law natural theology" There, is really the gist of it.
Slavery is wrong. But don't ask about if you're convicted of a crime in the good ole US of A. What to ruin your day? Go ahead and look that up. Over 800 K prisoners in this country. Some work for $00.20/hr and some don't get paid anything. One of the cornerstones of the economy is slave labour, whether you like that or not. In this country or otherwise Enjoy your snooze
Stop justiying owning other humans. A criminal has to go to jail because of his actions. That's different than owning other humans, just because a book says so
When people realized we couldn't have slavery again, they realized they needed to spin the bible like a neutron star, so they've got new talking points. Yes, it's an alternative look at history.
Are you a Born Again believer in God? Did you become baptized in the Holy Spirit? Or do you just have a degree and think that is all you need to teach the Bible? Unless one is Born again they will not see the Kingdom of God John 3v3 One not being born again will get very little Spiritual meaning from the Bible and will only be able to understand the superficial aspects of the Bible.
Dan conveniently ignores a lot of other arguments and context: 1. The form of slavery depicted in the Bible differs significantly from modern-day chattel slavery. Much of the slavery described was voluntary indentured servitude, rather than the lifelong, race or class based bondage seen in more recent history. 2. Biblical regulations concerning slavery, particularly those mandating humane treatment, were distinctive in the ancient world. These guidelines demonstrated a compassion for all individuals, regardless of status, and were unique to the Judeo-Christian tradition. 3. In Deuteronomy 23, Israelites were explicitly instructed not to return runaway slaves to their masters, showing a concern for the well-being of slaves. 4. Galatians 3:28 expresses the idea that all people are equal, a principle that inspired many Christians to support the abolition of slavery. The verse reads: "There is no longer Jew or Greek, there is no longer slave or free, there is no longer male and female; for all of you are one in Christ Jesus." While I could expand further, Dan's response primarily addressed point #2, though he still seems to downplay its significance. The reality is that slavery was a common practice in the ancient world, and Judaism was the first religion to introduce any form of humane regulation around it. Later, Christian teachings, following the death of Christ, affirmed the belief that all individuals are equal in the eyes of God. Although there is no explicit biblical condemnation of slavery, this is also true for other practices like alcoholism, drug addiction, pornography, racism, and gluttony. However, we can infer from biblical teachings on how we are to treat our bodies and one another that such behaviors are not endorsed. Therefore, omission in scripture should not be interpreted as endorsement. To suggest otherwise would be misleading, which Dan often is.
Incorrect, 1, they could beat their slaves to near death, they had a price for killing slaves unequal for freed persons, they could keep captured women as sex slaves forever. 2, incorrect see above. It is irrelevant that slavery might have been “better”, which is an unsubstantiated claim, when Israel has the god of creation whom will do what they ask. He can will then to have food and water when needed in the exodus but still use slaves later? See how that doesn’t work?
Dan addresses those other arguments and context in his other videos. He's not being misleading, you're just ignorant of all the topics he has addressed. And the Bible certainly endorses chattel slavery. Even if "most" servitude was indentured rather than forced (which I doubt it was), the Bible still endorses forced generational slavery.
TL;DR The god of the Bible condoned slavery and promulgated rules about how to conduct it as part of the law codes documented in the Old Testament. Jesus and the Apostles had an opportunity to correct those laws but failed to do so, leading us to conclude that slavery is acceptable to the biblical god. OLD TESTAMENT In the OT a distinction is made between Israelite and non-Israelite slaves and between debt and chattel slavery. It is the Israelite debt slaves (“indentured servants”) that can go free after six or seven years and who are the ones apologists point to when defending the slavery of the Bible. But non-Israelite slavery also existed in ancient Israel, condoned and regulated by the various legal codes in the text. Both Israelite men and women held slaves (Genesis 16:1). Yahweh-El had the opportunity to help Hagar in her flight from Abram and Sarai, but instead commanded her to return into servitude. Whether these stories represent actual people is doubtful, but the fact remains that the biblical deity revokes her manumission. Where did the Israelites get their slaves? They were permitted to participate in the intertribal slave trade by Leviticus 25:44-46. This serves, incidentally, as a loophole to Exodus 21:16, which forbids kidnapping: the slaves being purchased were kidnapped by someone else. Slaves could also be taken in battle. In Deuteronomy 20:10-15 the Israelites are commanded by Moses on behalf of Yahweh-El to take as spoils of war the women and children of any city that actively opposed them. In Deuteronomy 21:10-14 sexual slavery and genocidal rape is condoned: women from opposing tribes, now captives of war, are taken advantage of with no means of recourse or self-defense. A woman could also be sold into sexual slavery by the (typically) impoverished head of her household with the understanding that she would eventually become one of the wives of the owner. Her role would be to breed more slaves. This taking of multiple wives is recorded throughout the OT. According to Exodus 21:1-4, part of the Covenant Code of laws given to Moses by Yahweh-El on Mount Sinai, a slave could be born into servitude. If a master gave a slave a wife and she bore him children, the slave could later go free, but the wife and children must remain with the master as his property. Exodus 21:6 gives instructions on how to make an Israelite’s enslavement permanent. Demonstrating the difference in status between free persons and slaves, someone who deliberately kills a free person is to be put to death (Exodus 21:12), but merely “punished” if they similarly beat their slave to immediate death; however, the slave owner may go unpunished if the beaten slave survives for a day or two “for he is his property” (Exodus 21:21). Bear in mind that this is the law code Yahweh-El is delivering to the Israelites-the previous chapter of Exodus contains the Ten Commandments. Male Israelite slaves would be freed after six years of service (Exodus 21:2), but Israelite daughters and non-Israelite slaves were excluded from this form of automatic manumission (Exodus 21:7). On the other hand, Deuteronomy 15:12 says that both male and female slaves are to be set free after six years so we have a contradiction in the biblical god’s instructions to its people. NEW TESTAMENT In the NT, slavery is glorified albeit in a metaphorical sense (Matthew 20:27). Paul exhorted slaves to remain obedient to their masters (Ephesians 6:5-8, Colossians 3:22-24, 1 Timothy 6:1-2, Titus 2:9-10). Peter wrote similarly in 1 Peter 2:18. In Colossians 4:1 Paul instructed slave owners to be kind to their slaves, instead of commanding them to be freed. The key takeaway is that Jesus, the purported son of The biblical god, didn’t see fit to explicitly disclaim or countermand these pro-slavery laws. SUMMARY Slavery-in both its debt and chattel forms-was a part of life in the ancient Middle East. The Israelite law codes said to come from their tribal god condoned this slavery and promulgated rules on its commission. If the god of the Bible were truly omnipotent, it could have forbidden slavery outright, but instead thought it more important to regulate what people ate and the fabrics they could wear. CURRENT STUDIES See Catherine Hezser’s _Jewish Slavery in Antiquity_ for information about the Jewish practice of slavery in Greek and Roman times.
I'm still waiting for a coherent metric that holds up under scrutiny of reductio ad absurdum for what constitutes ownership, so that this can be compared to what the text explicitly describes. This should go without saying, but that the fact that the _English_ copies of the text use the word "slave," for example, cannot be used as evidence because that the Bible condones/endorses slavery because 1) the text wasn't originally _written_ in English, and 2) the earliest translations _didn't_ tender the text that way (it isn't rendered that way in any major translation until the RSV in 1946. Similarly, we cannot use the original languages' _words_ as evidence, either, because language was as descriptive then as it is now; and the terms had multiple usages _then,_ just as they do now. The only thing to can appropriately be used to draw a valid conclusion is the usage, in context, within the explicitly stated text. Anything beyond that becomes fallacious. That is to say that the Hebrew _ebed_ *can* be rendered as "slave," and the Greek _doúlos_ *can* be rendered as "slave," this does not imply that this the "correct" or intended interpretation. The same is true of the Hebrew _achuzzah, qanah,_ etc.
Most scholars start the discussion related to slavery and the Bible by pointing out the treatment of slaves and servants was much kinder and gentler than what most of us in the US picture as the slavery of the 18th and 19th centuries in America/Africa. Also, under Jewish law every 7 years slaves were set free. There was no practice by the Jews of forever enslavement. Slavery was actually sought out by some as a source of steady resources support. Search Tim Keller’s Gospel in life podcast for a more complete discussion of slavery and the Bible. I regret that the Bible was used by pro slavery groups in the 17th and 18th century. That was wrong and had horrific consequences.
The children of their slaves were also their property. They were never commanded to set them free. The 7 year rule applied to male Israelites, not their wives or children. And, in fact, if the male Israelite was set free after 7 years his wife and kids could not go with him, but he could choose to become a slave for life to be with his family, if he wanted. Then his ear would be pierced with an awl to signify this.
*Slavery* Except for murder, slavery has got to be one of the most immoral things a person can do. Yet slavery is rampant throughout the Bible in both the Old and New Testaments. The Bible clearly approves of slavery in many passages, and it goes so far as to tell how to obtain slaves, how hard you can beat them, and when you can have sex with the female slaves. Many Jews and Christians will try to ignore the moral problems of slavery by saying that these slaves were actually servants or indentured servants. Many translations of the Bible use the word “servant”, “bondservant”, or “manservant” instead of “slave” to make the Bible seem less immoral than it really is. While many slaves may have worked as household servants, that doesn’t mean that they were not slaves who were bought, sold, and treated worse than livestock. *The following passage shows that slaves are clearly property to be bought and sold like livestock.* However, you may purchase male or female *slaves* from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your *slaves* like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT) *The following passage describes how the Hebrew slaves are to be treated.* If you buy a Hebrew *slave,* he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your *slave* and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a *slave,* then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a *slave,* and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the *slave* may plainly declare, ‘I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.’ If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the *slave* will belong to his master forever. (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT) Notice how they can get a male Hebrew *slave* to become a permanent slave by keeping his wife and children hostage until he says he wants to become a permanent *slave.* What kind of family values are these? *The following passage describes the sickening practice of sex slavery. How can anyone think it is moral to sell your own daughter as a sex slave?* When a man sells his daughter as a *slave,* she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the *slave* girl’s owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a *slave* girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT) So these are the Bible family values! A man can buy as many sex *slaves* as he wants as long as he feeds them, clothes them, and has sex with them! *What does the Bible say about beating slaves? It says you can beat both male and female slaves with a rod so hard that as long as they don’t die right away you are cleared of any wrongdoing.* When a man strikes his male or female *slave* with a rod so hard that the *slave* dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the *slave* survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the *slave* is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB) *You would think that Jesus and the New Testament would have a different view of slavery, but slavery is still approved of in the New Testament, as the following passages show.* *Slaves,* obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT) Christians who are *slaves* should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT) *In the following parable, Jesus clearly approves of beating slaves even if they didn’t know they were doing anything wrong.* The *servant* will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. “But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given.” (Luke 12:47-48 NLT)
This is just incorrect. The point of the Mosaic law is to institute a freeing ceremony, so that slaves are freed every seven years. The point of the Passover is to imagine yourself as enslaved, so as to appreciate the freeing law. The text of the Bible deals with slavery as an institution, and says barbaric things about it, but the intent of Exodus, even if it is only obvious in the distant future, is to transition to a non-slave society (or at least, only with temporary servitude). The New Testament, on the other hand, is just anti-slavery throughout.
@@annaclarafenyo8185 *Slavery* Except for murder, slavery has got to be one of the most immoral things a person can do. Yet slavery is rampant throughout the Bible in both the Old and New Testaments. The Bible clearly approves of slavery in many passages, and it goes so far as to tell how to obtain slaves, how hard you can beat them, and when you can have sex with the female slaves. Many Jews and Christians will try to ignore the moral problems of slavery by saying that these slaves were actually servants or indentured servants. Many translations of the Bible use the word “servant”, “bondservant”, or “manservant” instead of “slave” to make the Bible seem less immoral than it really is. While many slaves may have worked as household servants, that doesn’t mean that they were not slaves who were bought, sold, and treated worse than livestock. *The following passage shows that slaves are clearly property to be bought and sold like livestock.* However, you may purchase male or female *slaves* from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your *slaves* like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT) *The following passage describes how the Hebrew slaves are to be treated.* If you buy a Hebrew *slave,* he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your *slave* and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a *slave,* then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a *slave,* and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the *slave* may plainly declare, ‘I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.’ If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the *slave* will belong to his master forever. (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT) Notice how they can get a male Hebrew *slave* to become a permanent slave by keeping his wife and children hostage until he says he wants to become a permanent *slave.* What kind of family values are these? *The following passage describes the sickening practice of sex slavery. How can anyone think it is moral to sell your own daughter as a sex slave?* When a man sells his daughter as a *slave,* she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the *slave* girl’s owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a *slave* girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT) So these are the Bible family values! A man can buy as many sex *slaves* as he wants as long as he feeds them, clothes them, and has sex with them! *What does the Bible say about beating slaves? It says you can beat both male and female slaves with a rod so hard that as long as they don’t die right away you are cleared of any wrongdoing.* When a man strikes his male or female *slave* with a rod so hard that the *slave* dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the *slave* survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the *slave* is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB) *You would think that Jesus and the New Testament would have a different view of slavery, but slavery is still approved of in the New Testament, as the following passages show.* *Slaves,* obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT) Christians who are *slaves* should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT) *In the following parable, Jesus clearly approves of beating slaves even if they didn’t know they were doing anything wrong.* The *servant* will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. “But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given.” (Luke 12:47-48 NLT)
You understand that only a Levite High Priest can teach about God? No rabbi, no pope, no atheist, no bible. these are all instruments of man. You've missed the point.
You mean you are time wasters? But ok this is also helpfull somewhat to undersand my path... i now wander wether the world feels like a maze or defintively a prison. So little time left
Who is really free without God? Without Yeshua? Without obedience? Without submission? I am convinced Freedom comes when we dwell in God and abide in Yeshua and eventually when we get to heaven. As for slavery there is a limit to pay off debt. It was also for those who abandoned God. God does want us bound. If we all see Yeshua in each of us and loved each other as God loves us … the Devil would not be doing His bidding with Slavery. I don’t believe it for God to condone. It is for us to stop the evil. The devil has no power. We give it to him.
You misunderstand. There is Hebrew bondservantship, as is explained in Leviticus 25,38-43, which is voluntary and temporary to pay off debt, they cannot be treated as slaves and must be treated as hired workers Then there is real slavery for non hebrew as is explained in Leviticus 25 44 46, which states you can own slaves for life and pass them on as inherited property
Disgusting thought! We don’t need the make believe gods! Otherwise, look at all the terrible things and horror those in the Christian cult have caused over the centuries!
The slavery of men and the slavery of YAHUAH are different. Leviticus teaches that a brother of Yashar’El should be treated as a hired servant until the year of Jubilee, and a stranger was a servant either brought or inherited to the individual. The act of slavery performed by the colonizers was profoundly unfair and unjust and righteous judgment will come to them.
He never said that there is no god in the Bible. He pointed out that there isn’t ONE singular god in the Bible. Particularly in the Old Testament they clearly believed that there were multiple gods. They just believed that their own god was the best.
What is this guy even talking about? We study scripture to increase faith and learn the ways of God... not build some earthly Utopia. Sheesh Faith comes by hearing, hearing by the word of God.
He's talking about what the authors of the Bible and their readers thought, how that differs from what modern readers think and why. How did you manage to miss that?
@marknieuweboer8099 well, if you can't understand our dependence and need for Christ, his teaching is futile. He doesn't sound like a believer. And the prophetic messages could not be understood until the late 19th century.
I'm not getting rid of my faith. I'm not getting rid of my bible. And I am NOT becoming an atheist. If that makes me "ignorant" in your eyes... I... DON'T... CARE.
Lucky for you that NO ONE is trying to get you to "get rid of your faith or your bible", tho it would be nice if you had some godly respect for truth rather than gleefully spitting on it like a four-year-old. But as long as you don't try to force those who don't share your beliefs to live their lives according to your beliefs , I....DON'T....CARE.
Slavery in the bible was the "straw that broke the camel's back" in terms of me believing in god. And as the NT does not totally and simply condemn slavery as immoral, I find the Christian perspective on it to be ambiguous at best. Not all Christians of course, but an alarming number use apologetics to argue that slavery was not always that bad, that slaves were just employees or servants, or that slavery was a 'temporary" position.This was actually true in term of Jewish slaves being temporary, but does the time period matter? Not only could my own ethics accept a slavery-loving god, but I didn't find believers in such a god as suitable company. So the Abrahamic faiths: Judaism, Christianity and Islam all have traditions of slavery as an acceptable practice, I could dismiss them all. Likewise any other religion or culture that thought the practice of slavery acceptable. Of course many other things gave my ethical or intellectual indigestion. Misogyny, the apparent glee about war, and war crimes, and of course the false naturalistic claims in Genesis etc about origins, the very dubious supernatural claims, "miracles" and so on. The bible is neither a scientific text, nor some great tome about ethics. As a "moral compass"? Absolutely not.
My own Christian life has taught me that people tend to hear God speak to their preferences. And they tend to not hear God condemn their preferences, just everybody else's. When people realize this you learn quickly that the writers and prophets got a lot correct and a lot wrong. That's why we needed a Messiah to set the record straight on what the Father is really like. We keep what Jesus teaches and we trash anything in the Bible that seems to contradict Jesus principles. And I don't give a damn what any other writer/prophet, book Bible said. When Jesus says to love your enemy, pray for your persecutors, treat others like you want to be treated i just don't care what Moses, David, or Solomon wrote about what to do to an enemy. I don't care that they said God told them. If it doesn't align with Jesus they HEARD WRONG. Always amazes me the folks who believe in the Trinity, say Jesus is God but quote everybody else in the scripture but him. 😳 You'd think Paul, Calvin, Martin Luther was the triune god based on how people act.
My own Christian life has taught me that people tend to hear God speak to their preferences. And they tend to not hear God condemn their preferences, just everybody else's. When people realize this you learn quickly that the writers and prophets got a lot correct and a lot wrong. That's why we needed a Messiah to set the record straight on what the Father is really like. We keep what Jesus teaches and we trash anything in the Bible that seems to contradict Jesus principles. And I don't give a damn what any other writer/prophet, book Bible said. When Jesus says to love your enemy, pray for your persecutors, treat others like you want to be treated i just don't care what Moses, David, or Solomon wrote about what to do to an enemy. I don't care that they said God told them. If it doesn't align with Jesus they HEARD WRONG. Always amazes me the folks who believe in the Trinity, say Jesus is God but quote everybody else in the scripture but him. 😳 You'd think Paul, Calvin, Martin Luther was the triune god based on how people act.
When your Politicians start talking about Biblical Values,
they are envisioning you as Livestock
Yep. We're either breeding stock or sources of income. That's it.
They're talking out of their asses. These people are Biblically ignorant, depending on the same ignorance to hornswoggle their audience.
@@olteddersThere's an old Daily Show clip where (I think) Stephen Colbert is interviewing a GOP state rep who wants the Ten Commandments posted in public buildings. Colbert asks him to recite them, and the stupid clown can't even name half of them.
@@oltedders I don't care what orifice they are speaking from.
It is what they are saying that bothers me.
@@danjohnston9037
Talking out of his ass and nothing but shit coming out of his mouth.
if only moses included "thou shalt not own another human being" in the ten commandments..
Valuing slavery is far more entrenched in the Bible than that
That was on the tablet he dropped on the way down Mt. Sinai.
That concept would have made no sense to them. Wives and children were treated as property. Personal relationships were understood much differently then.
You mean the anonymous authors. Moses didn't write the books. Interesting: Rabbis attributed the book of Job also to Moses. This Shows that they had no clue who wrote their books, they just attribute books to "authorities" to have authority over others.
@@donaldwert7137 Inscribed just above 'Thou shalt not be a dick to others'
If you can quit bacon cold turkey, you can quit slavery cold turkey.
The only thing I was never able to quit cold turkey was warm turkey
@@scottneusen9601don’t give up man. Baby steps. Just take it one day at a time.
@@mrq6270by day two it should have cooled down quite a bit. So that would help
america actually did just that, funny how god couldn't...
Quitting cold turkey bacon
Because it has to, in order for all those White Evangelicals that believe in "Country Club" Jesus, to feel better about themselves.
Country club Jesus. Yes, I like that.
One day, I would love to see a compilation of the omissions from the 'Slave's Bible'. Probably the best bits.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Select_Parts_of_the_Holy_Bible_for_the_use_of_the_Negro_Slaves_in_the_British_West-India_Islands
Brilliant! I've never heard a better understanding of this subject rendered more precisely and concisely with so few words.
Really? Because he didn't raise the bar very high and used arguments that I rarely ever hear Christians use.
@@cman04 What arguments are used I find Dan's summary pretty fair. Eg Incrementalism was a key element in this discussion ua-cam.com/video/NpnN2_c1Cq8/v-deo.html
Motivated Reasoning.
There is a UA-cam guy named Abdu Murray who did that just the other day, made a completely wrong video about how the Bible was against slavery. All the comments were variations on :What on earth are you talking about?"
Galatians 3:28 - read it.
@@cman04 That's hilarious, how could you be so confused when Paul doesn't even want women to speak at meetings. Do you think there was originally a footnote at the bottom exempting churches from the neither male nor female thing? LOL
@@cman04lmaooo why would anyone read that bs?
@@cman04 maybe Galatians 3 : 28 indirectly contradicts all the provisions and laws about slavery elsewhere in the Bible. It says that followers of Christ are all one in him, right? That doesn't directly say anything about ending or being against slavery. And if it did, it would be a formal contradiction.
@@wormwood822 the Bible also doesn't directly condemn drug addition or alcoholism, pornography, gluttony, racism, etc. Does that mean the Bible condones these things? No. Of course not. However, there are instructions on how we are to respect and treat our bodies and others. Through this we can infer that the items I mentioned would NOT be condoned. In other words, omission doesn't equate to endorsement. That would be an argument from silence fallacy, aka argumentum ex silentio. This is a fallacy that occurs when someone draws a definitive conclusion based off of the absence of information. Dan does this quite often, btw.
❤❤❤❤❤❤ thanks Dan!!
God told the Israelites that they were the first among the tribes that he had created to worship him and, for all intents and purposes, be his slaves and servants. It's no real surprise then that they felt entitled to do the same with the lesser people around them.
Cognitive dissonance
Pica!
We are the best humans ever exist.
More like denying it to feel better and to continue to preach the "God is love" bs.
@@GeoffBosco It's all downhill from here, especially as the anti-vaxxers (some of the worst people to exist) get their way.
"Cognitive dissonance" is when you feel bad about conflicting ideas. Not when you find a way to accept those conflicting ideas. That's usually compartmentalization - this idea only applies in this circumstance, and the other only applies in this other circumstance. "Loce thy neighbor" only applies to white folk who love me back, see? Cognitive dissonance is one of the major reasons people question their faith, because it makes them (correctly) feel something isn't right.
Because these days, it seems to us that slavery is so obviously wrong. Yet the bible is supposed to put forth good moral precepts, so this causes cognitive dissonance and makes people uncomfortable. So they try to negotiate in order to ease that discomfort they're feeling. They want the best of both worlds, because they're even more uncomfortable admitting the bible isn't what they insist it is.
Good summary! Cognitive dissonance indeed. Sometimes it seems like what Dan calls "negotiating with the text" could just as easily be called "resolving cognitive dissonance."
And I say this as someone who had to resolve cognitive dissonance by abandoning doctrines of biblical liberalism and divine inspiration!
Cherry picking. When you ask them why God orders the illing of children, they will say well God didn't want to leave children growing up without a father. 😂
Read Galatians 3:28. Christians were taught that all people, including slaves, were to be considered equal in the eyes of God.
@@cman04 Ephesians 6 1
S*aves, obey your earthly masters* with respect and *fear,* and with sincerity of heart, *just as you would obey Christ*
@@cman04 Titus 2:9
S*aves are to submit to their own masters in everything
Colossians 3:22
S*aves, obey your earthly masters
Ephesians 5:22
Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord
What an uplifting, Spirit-filled teaching. You certainly encapsulated the teachings of Jesus with this video.
Slavery is a great example of the gap between what the Bible actually says versus the dogmatic filter that many apply.
This is funny Dan. I just wrote a paper the other day using a video you did about renegotiating the Bible to justify and condone slavery. We read Denmark Vessey in my Graduate class last week. Thanks for the good videos you do!
People are raised to think God = good. So, anything God does in the bible HAS to be good. Watch how they tie themselves in knots defending mass slaughter under Joshua. Once you start with the irrefutable premise that God MUST be good, you have no other options. You must defend everything He does or give up your belief. Sadly, people would rather make excuses for slavery and mass slaughter than give up belief in a supernatural deity.
Of course God=Good, but they are too focused on mythological "God" and Organizat Religion "God" not some beyond anything God
OR you can believe God is good, and just not believe that the Bible is the literal word of God and instead believe that its authors were flawed and subject to their own flawed judgment and ideas
In the New Testament I always taken it to be more of an acceptance that slavery exists and in that context require that the owner treats their slave justly. It’s worth noting that in the Greco-Roman world women had no status in society except that of the relevant male in their life be he their father, grandfather, husband, adult brother, adult son. They were not slaves but they still were not free with rights.
However Gods ideal society is laid out in Galatians 3v28
‘There is no longer Jew or Greek, there is no longer slave or free man, there is no longer male or female. For all of you are one in Christ Jesus’
They aren't convinced. They know the Abrahamic deity not only endorses slavery - it loves and celebrates it.
These people make such a fuss about because they WANT to be convinced of it. They hope that eventually they'll convince not others, but themselves.
Nowhere in the Bible is slavery ever endorsed or celebrated. And Galatians 3:28 states all all people, including slaves, are considered equal in the eyes of God.
@@cman04 you dont know your bible😂 Paul says 4 times to s...aves to obey their masters like they would obey Jesus😂 the Torah even allows to buy and to sell
@@cman04 and yeah they are considered equal to God but still must obey their masters
@@leom6343 I addressed your out of context cherry picking - your move ;)
"Out of context"😂 you can own people THE WHOLE LIFE as property and even HARM THEM.
Oh, how lovely to see the wonderful Dr. Hector Avalos' work mentioned. What a great man and scholar. QEPD. Edit: can we campaign somehow for an e-book of this volume?
Apparently, what the Jews learned in Egypt was that if you had enough slaves, no construction project was too big.🥴
*Slavery*
Except for murder, slavery has got to be one of the most immoral things a person can do. Yet slavery is rampant throughout the Bible in both the Old and New Testaments. The Bible clearly approves of slavery in many passages, and it goes so far as to tell how to obtain slaves, how hard you can beat them, and when you can have sex with the female slaves.
Many Jews and Christians will try to ignore the moral problems of slavery by saying that these slaves were actually servants or indentured servants. Many translations of the Bible use the word “servant”, “bondservant”, or “manservant” instead of “slave” to make the Bible seem less immoral than it really is. While many slaves may have worked as household servants, that doesn’t mean that they were not slaves who were bought, sold, and treated worse than livestock.
*The following passage shows that slaves are clearly property to be bought and sold like livestock.*
However, you may purchase male or female *slaves* from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your *slaves* like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)
*The following passage describes how the Hebrew slaves are to be treated.*
If you buy a Hebrew *slave,* he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your *slave* and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a *slave,* then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a *slave,* and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the *slave* may plainly declare, ‘I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.’ If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the *slave* will belong to his master forever. (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)
Notice how they can get a male Hebrew *slave* to become a permanent slave by keeping his wife and children hostage until he says he wants to become a permanent *slave.* What kind of family values are these?
*The following passage describes the sickening practice of sex slavery. How can anyone think it is moral to sell your own daughter as a sex slave?*
When a man sells his daughter as a *slave,* she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the *slave* girl’s owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a *slave* girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)
So these are the Bible family values! A man can buy as many sex *slaves* as he wants as long as he feeds them, clothes them, and has sex with them!
*What does the Bible say about beating slaves? It says you can beat both male and female slaves with a rod so hard that as long as they don’t die right away you are cleared of any wrongdoing.*
When a man strikes his male or female *slave* with a rod so hard that the *slave* dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the *slave* survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the *slave* is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)
*You would think that Jesus and the New Testament would have a different view of slavery, but slavery is still approved of in the New Testament, as the following passages show.*
*Slaves,* obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)
Christians who are *slaves* should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)
*In the following parable, Jesus clearly approves of beating slaves even if they didn’t know they were doing anything wrong.*
The *servant* will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. “But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given.” (Luke 12:47-48 NLT)
Yes you are correct, Jesus believed in slavery!
All wrote by Man, edited by Man, powerful men trying to control and enslave the world, by chasing false words and promoting this sinful behavior you give evil flawed God power. It started with the back translation of the Old testament, going from Greek to the dead hebrew language.
Dan, is this need to whitewash the Bible to meet current morés a recent development, or do we see this in previous eras as well?
Christianity was whitewashing Judaism.
there has not been a single instance since the first syllable was penned that people haven't been trying to knead it into something socially acceptable
A similar thing happened in the early 20th century when the status of women was undergoing a social revolution to approach that of men instead of being a permanent legal minor & always under the mastership of a man be he her father, husband, uncle, adult son.
To quote Dan, " we cannot but renegotiate with the text." Everyone has always had to renegotiate what has been written whether it's ancient or postmodern readers.
@@SethRGray This is my belief as well. ButI asked Dan specifically because I am interested in the data to prove (or possibly disprove) our shared preconception.
Premise 1: Whatever I believe is right.
Premise 2: The Bible cannot be wrong.
Conclusion: The Bible must agree with my beliefs.
The idea that God could not just abolish slavery at that time shows a typical lack of imagination in modern believers of just what an all powerful God would be capable of: "Free all your slaves within 2 days", God thunders to the Israelites. 2 days past, some do it, many don't. Those who don't *instantly* immolate, painfully burning to death before everyone's eyes, even the ones who tried to cheat and secretly keep slaves. Now...do you *seriously* think that, after seeing that right before them, the survivors would remain so stiff-necked that they would keep the practice alive? Or is this somehow not within God's power to do?
It's amazing that so many people think we should use the Bible as our basis for moral code, but I truly wonder if they have actually read the thing. Just reading the first five books of the Old Testament will show many things which us modern human beings would find offensive and abhorrent.
There's a debate on UA-cam between Alex Connor and Ben Shapiro that talks about the Bible and slavery in particular. I recommend watching it. Alex is a very shrewd and level-headed atheist. he reminds me of Christopher Hitchens but without the anger. (I miss Chris though!)
In addition to Dan's book recommendation there is a fantastic open access book on biblical slavery written by Thom Stark. It's called "Is God A Moral Compromiser?"
Wow I haven't heard of Hector Avalos since his book the End of Biblical Studies.
Important distinction - Dan says "God of the Bible", not "God".
YHWH, was a war/slave monger. It's arguable that war and slavery are the two greatest sins imaginable. There's some serious cognitive dissonance when you realize that war and slavery were YHWH's jam.
I agree. This is why conscription is among the most abhorrent forms of slavery.
Not sure why he left out the most common tactic of apologists, which he has addressed in other videos, namely that the slavery in the Bible was really just voluntary debt servitude that ended after seven years. He has another video that blasts this excuse to smithereens and shows that while fellow Hebrews got preferred treatment, the Bible was fine with chattel slavery against non-Hebrews.
A figure frequently referenced by evangelical ministers is John Wesley and his anti-slavery pamphlet. I read it. It's a remarkable document. But quite tellingly, his argument is entirely based on Enlightenment views of human rights, a secular argument....and not one reference to the Bible. NOT ONE. And he is held up as "proof" that slavery wouldn't have disappeared without Christianity.
Another problem is that Wesley lived in the 18th Century. So it took well educated christians more than 15 Centuries to arrive at his view.
Oh, they'll mention the entire "do unto others..." phrase. Then again, did the people who wrote the Bible believe slaves were humans, though?
Yes.
The problem is probably that slavery was so entrenched that they might think, “I, as a slave owner, can’t be freed, so I wouldn’t have the slave free me - so I don’t have to free them.”
There are several verses showing that the Christian authors saw slavery as virtually holy.
my example was very specific, but there are two general principles at play: 1) the is not univocal.
2) our interpretation from our modern perspective is often not how people of first C Hellenized Jewish culture would have understood it
More-so than the Golden Rule, the focus is often placed on the Pauline Epistle _Philemon._ This New Testament letter from Paul to Philemon discusses treatment of a converted runaway enslaved person Paul meets while imprisoned.
Onesimus (the enslaved) is part of a local group of Christians who visit and care for Paul and the two men become quite close. Paul describes Onesimus as a son and views himself as a father in the faith. Onesimus confides his status to Paul and it is decided he must return to Philemon (his “master”) as a matter of conscience and so he might receive a change in status.
Paul implores Philemon in the letter to receive Onesimus back “no longer as a slave but more than a slave, a beloved brother … both in the flesh* and in the Lord.” (*the legal status change)
Paul goes on to say things like:
• “Welcome him as you would me.”
• “If he wronged/owes you, charge me.”
Dan is right that modern believers don’t like to focus on the parts of scripture that accept slavery as a practice. Seminaries downplay it by focusing on debt-slavery and tend to pass over war-slavery.
If one does bring up war-slavery, they point out that it was phased out as a practice by the first century CE and that “only” debt-slavery and voluntary servitude were practiced. They don’t discuss the fact that, as a vassal state under Rome, they no longer had the opportunity to go to war and, therefore, could not practice war-slavery due to that.
Paul seemed to believe that slaves were as much humans as anyone else. "There is neither slave nor free; there is neither male nor female; for we are all one in Christ". Even if you take this to imply that slaves should still fulfill their roles, I think it implies that slaves were equally important and equally eligible to be exalted before God and a part of Christ. To Paul, the ultimate goal was to be a "slave for Christ", so anyone, no matter what role they had in society, was to be equally committed to being a slave for Christ, or as I interpret it, being as good and righteous as they could be.
To do unto others as you would do unto yourself would be to treat everyone as equals--equality being something we value hugely today. If you don't take the Bible as inerrant and univocal, you could put the record of Jesus's words in the gospels above anything else in the Bible.
@@inafridge8573 ““seems to,” Maybe for a few verses (Galatians 3:26-29), “no slaves no master, no male no female,” etc. But that is “in Christ,” and for *“Abraham’s heirs* according to the promise,” *not* in a “slavery should not exist on Earth” sense.
Can slaves be Abraham’s heirs, according to Paul? Paul continues his nice-sounding verse from Galatians chapter 3 and in 4:22-31 tells us how great it was that God excluded slaves, born outside of the promise, from being part of His covenant.
So when we get to the details, Paul thinks slavery is a very good thing that God uses to separate people
There is a 4th excuse I've seen handed out whereby slavery was like baseball players being property to a club! And they could be brought and sold like them.
Why am I convinced that people are slaves to corruption? ...in hope that creation itself would be set free from slavery to corruption (Rom 8:20-21 NABO)
So it couldn't be that "the Bible" is a human document written by human authors in response to their human ideas of the divine and therefore reflects their human imperfections and perceptions, could it?
Wouldn't the golden rule preclude slavery? Unless one wants to be a slave one shouldn't enslave others
Any time anyone tries to use the Bible as a cub to beat LGBTQI folk with, remember that, if they can decide the Bible doesn't support slavery, they can decide it doesn't condemn being LGBTQI. We've just got to keep piling on the pressure to make compassion and justice win out.
The despicable rationalization I used to encounter is the one that claims the 1st century Mediterranean "slavery" Paul was addressing wasn't anything like the "slavery" practiced in the pre-Civil War South. Basically attempting to paint 1st century slaves as the equivalent of domestic servants or simply "employees". One pastor extolled from the pulpit, "When Paul advises 'slaves obey your masters' what are we to make of it? Well, do you work for someone? Do you have an employer? Paul wants you to respect your boss and follow the policies of your workplace." 😆
In short, because they believe what they want to believe, not what the text says.
Wow, it’s kinda crazy to admit that biblicaly, in a Christian country, the confederates was right about their right to slavery using the bible as a tool !
That means that the bible is an ancient book and should be treated like that in our modern era. We should not apply the bible (or at least some part of its principals) in our modern society. Or we should pick and choose wisely by putting everything in context. That’s the best way to do if you are a Christian.
The CURRENT Republican candidate for the governor of North Carolina is on tape saying, "Slavery wasn't a bad thing, I would own a few right now". Don't believe me, google "Mark Robinson on slavery" and see for yourself.
Another great analysis, Dan. This is the thing.....these people MUST believe that God was the actual author of scripture (though The Bible itself never suggests that....only that God "breathed life" into the scripture that was written...but then that itself was written by Human men). If they were to even entertain the thought that The Bible could be horribly wrong about slavery or genocide (and The Bible absolutely states QUITE clearly that it is God who not only approves of slavery, but is actually the one who sets down the rules of who can be slaves and who can't....and it is God who directs the Israelites to carry out genocides on various other peoples, even to "ripping open the bellies" of their pregnant women), then they would forced to admit that Human men could have also infused other scriptures with their opinions, prejudices, and societal "norms" of the times, even to things like homosexuality, and they are absolutely NOT under ANY circumstances going to give up their fanatical hatred of LGBTQ people. In fact the one thing that drives them into the greatest frenzy is the fact that, while Christ felt that certain issues, like adultery, were important enough to address, He never once even mentions homosexuality in four Gospels.....and things He DOES address, like rich people being likely to be denied Heaven, or those who ignore or mistreat the poor, the sick, and the marginalized (which would include the homeless and migrants) going to their "eternal punishment", they have no problem simply dismissing those teachings and rarely (if ever) mentioning them.
Why ? because they have to follow the grift
I think there is a difference between "endorse" and "condone". The culture in the bible definitely condoned slavery. But I don't see any verses that praises the wonders of slavery. Or even recommends it as something that is good. All we have are a bunch of rules and regulations in regards to legally handling slaves. Slavery for the most part is talked about with a level of indifference.
Splitting these hairs is an attempt to soften the immorality of the practice. Sure, it wasn’t outright ordered, but it certainly was allowed. This doesn’t make slavery moral somehow. We’re still talking about permitting the practice of owning another human being as a possession.
@@MrMattSax
Its the job of historians to split hairs in order to get the most accurate portrait of history as possible. They don't do it to try to "soften" a practice. But to paint a more accurate picture. So to say slavery was "endorsed" in the biblical text would be inaccurate.
@@ScholarVisual I think at a point we’re arguing semantics. “Endorse” would imply some sort of public approval, but allowing something and not outright forbidding or condemning it could be interpreted as a tacit endorsement.
@@MrMattSax
To condone is to ALLOW something. To endorse is to PROMOTE something. The US government ALLOWS cigarette smoking. The US government does not ENDORSE cigarette smoking. I'm not defending the US government when I say they dont endorse it. Im not an apologist. Im simply talking about what is more accurate. The Bible ALLOWS for slavery, but I have not seen one verse that ENDORESES it.
@@ScholarVisual I think that’s fair. It is true that the Yahweh character does not command slavery, but he certainly permits it and I don’t think that makes it any less immoral.
If you can put in rules about what you can’t eat and wear you can put in rules about not owning people. And if god can’t come down and smite those who didn’t follow the rules (like he often did) then maybe he wasn’t so mighty.
@DrSatan. Numbers 1.
There isnt even a God of the bible. The God of the Hebrew scripture is different than the one(s) in the Greek books.
The God in the Greek books doesn't condemn slavery either.
Didn't the pro-slavery forces in the US South before the Civil War say slavery was the will of God?
The Bible is a very long book that says a lot of different things, and most people ignore the context of any specific verse they like. As thus, if you decide a priori that the Bible needs to condemn slavery, there's plenty of verses to pick from to agree with that point of view.
"Context". Its morally wrong. And the bible as a whole supports it
@@leom6343 Yes, I agree.
Unfortunately you can only arrive at a condemnation of slavery in the Bible by pointing out that if X is true then Y must be necessary. There’s no direct statement of condemnation.
@@mrq6270 Yes. But it would have been nice for him to have said that. The abolitionists didn't ignore the text.
It makes sense: look at all the Christian imagery that was adopted by the (former) slaves themselves. They embraced the whole idea of the Exodus, linking themselves with the Israelites.
I can come up with an argument off the top of my head: If God freed the Israelites because they followed him, then he must hate slavery when it is used against his people.
He has not even mentioned how much the African American embracing of the Bible fits in.
Also, it might have been good to point out that the Black slaves were themselves adopting Christian imagery and adopted a version of Christianity that linked the slaves to the Israelites when they were slaves of Egypt.
It's a bit hard to say that the God they were celebrating did not say (in the Bible) that slavery was actually wrong.
Brigham Young was certain that God endorsed slavery when he decided to sign Utah legislation to make both Black & Native American slavery legal in Utah territory. Brigham Young said we are all good or bad (Servant/Slaves) of God. Learning to be a good (Servant/Slave) in this life, prepares a person to be a good servant of God in the next life. Learning to be a good master in this life, prepares a person for the duties & responsibilities of exaltation in the next life. How does one expect to learn how to be a good god without practice? Except he was a lot less benevolent in his speech regarding the descendants of (Cain & Ham) & the Lamanites. He felt that allowing the Lamanites to be slaves to Mormons would give them the opportunity to prove worthiness to be made White again. And that Mormons having Lamanite slaves, prevented them from being sold to someone who would treat them worse. This is one of the biggest evidences that if there is a god, it's a malevolent one!
You could also say, the God of the Bible condones and endorses warfare, but by the end of the book turns out, not so much.
Because then the far rights theology totally falls apart.
I actually think you missed two common tactics that I hear regularly:
1. Asserting that ancient slavery was nothing like the slavery practiced in the past few centuries, claiming it was far more just and humane (usually by comparing ancient legislation with the reports from slaves about actual experiences in recent history, rather than comparing legislation to legislation).
2. Claiming that actually all slavery in the Bible is really talking about indentured servitude. This one falls apart fast, but the assertion keeps going strong.
Our current perception is very much shaped by the transatlantic trade. But historically, slavery did come in different flavors. And I only say that in order to be honest. Not to support any notion that slavery was somehow fine in ancient times.
Two things that struck me were the notion that during the Arab expansion there were slave armies. It seems like they must’ve been okay with it in some way because when the fighting began they didn’t simply switch sides! Which seems like an obvious option to me.
Then also the Arabs sent “slaves” to foreign countries as ambassadors. Which in my head is not a very slave like job.
So I think that slave must’ve been a rather broad term. One of these days I should learn more about how these things worked.
Love your content. Please address Christ before Jesus use of Stylometry
Dan make a video about jesus believing in slavery
Frank Turek and Mike Winger....
Bc 'god' must follow local traditions...
If a very primitive man who was afraid of comets and never met you decided to write a book about you, would it be accurate?
The God of the Bible did NOT condone or endorse slavery, people of the Bible did, no question. God did not reveal or inspire everything in the Bible, in fact, on the contrary, he revealed very, very little. We should never confuse the bad actions of someone who believes in God, as actions God endorses or teaches. Personally, I support throwing away the vast majority of the Bible, and a good chunk of the Book of Mormon, that are meaningless or wrong, and focus on the true and correct teachings and principles.
And you of course are the ultimate arbiter of which are the correct and true teachings.
@@marknieuweboer8099 Yes, I'm glad you acknowledge that. :) We can have a consensus and majority vote of what should stay and what should be tossed out.
Not true as God says you can buy AND sell them
@MrArtist7777 Yeah, slavery is totally against Yahweh's character. 🙄
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*This website is designed to spread the vicious truth about the Bible. For far too long priests and preachers have completely ignored the vicious criminal acts that the Bible promotes. The so called God of the Bible makes Osama Bin Laden look like a Boy Scout. This God, according to the Bible, is directly responsible for many mass-murders, rapes, pillage, plunder, slavery, child abuse and killing, not to mention the killing of unborn children.* I have included references to the Biblical passages, so grab your Bible and follow along.
*It always amazes me how many times this God orders the killing of innocent people even after the Ten Commandments said Thou shall not kill.* For example, God kills 70,000 innocent people because David ordered a census of the people (1 Chronicles 21).
God also orders the destruction of 60 cities so that the Israelites can live there. He orders the killing of all the men, women, and children of each city, and the looting of all of value (Deuteronomy 3). He orders another attack and the killing of all the living creatures of the city: men and women, young, and old, as well as oxen sheep, and asses (Joshua 6). In Judges 21 He orders the murder of all the people of Jabesh-gilead, except for the virgin girls who were taken to be forcibly raped and married. When they wanted more virgins, God told them to hide alongside the road and when they saw a girl they liked, kidnap her and forcibly rape her and make her your wife!
*Just about every other page in the Old Testament has God killing somebody!* In 2 Kings 10:18-27, God orders the murder of all the worshipers of a different god in their very own church! In total God kills 371,186 people directly and orders another 1,862,265 people murdered
The God of the Bible also allows slavery, including selling your own daughter as a sex slave (Exodus 21:1-11), child abuse (Judges 11:29-40 & Isaiah 13:16), and bashing babies against rocks (Hosea 13:16 & Psalms 137:9). *This type of criminal behavior should shock any moral person.*
***Murder, rape, pillage, plunder, slavery, and child abuse can not be justified by saying that some god says it’s OK.*** If more people would actually sit down and read the Bible there would be a lot more atheists like myself. Jesus also promoted the idea that all men should castrate themselves to go to heaven: For there are eunuchs, that were so born from their mother’s womb: and there are eunuchs, that were made eunuchs by men: and there are eunuchs, that made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven’s sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it (Matthew 19:12). *I don’t know why anyone would follow the teachings of someone who literally tells all men to cut off their privates.*
The God of the Bible also was a big fan of ritual human sacrifice and animal sacrifice.
*And just in case you are thinking that the evil and immoral laws of the Old Testament are no longer in effect, perhaps you should read where Jesus makes it perfectly clear:* It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid (Luke 16:17). There are many more quotes on this topic at my Do Not Ignore the Old Testament web page.
If you follow the links on this site you will learn about all the nasty things in the Bible that are usually not talked about by priests and preachers.
EvilBible.com
Also watch *Context!!!!!!* by NonStampCollector.
(A good video for believers who try and justify Biblical atrocities and immorality by saying "Out of context!)
@@leom6343 God never said it, God never wrote a single word of the Bible and the only quotes we have of God saying anything, is him saying; "this is my beloved son in whom I am well pleased." and: "This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him." Jesus had not yet been resurrected and perfected, so we have to take God the Father/Elohim's, words as pure revelation, and Jesus never said anything about slavery after his resurrection.
Examples of early minority voices that condemned slavery please?
i don't think the revival of classical thought played any part in leading to abolitionism since the classics were every bit as pro-slavery as the bible
If god is all powerful and wanted to wean Christians off slavery, why didn't he create a slavery patch, or gum even, rather than just continuing slavery for 1,000s of years?
Wouldn’t this be a conflicting sentiment to the teachings of god and how were are supposed to treat each other ?
If the Israelites had truly been slaves, they wouldn't have had slaves themselves. What a perfect moment to establish a no slaves policy.
That's like saying someone who was bullied wouldn't bully or someone who was abused won't abuse.
You can question if the Israelites were slaves in Egypt, but they were definitely conquered by Babylon. And at least some of the Hebrew Bible was written after that point. (Some would claim it all was.)
@@turkeypedal truthfully I don't believe the Exodus story is remotely true. Not do I believe that God personally gave them their laws. my point was that if it was true it would have been the time to outlaw slavery
Because those in the Christian cult pick and choose what they want to believe out of the Bible! That’s why there are over 40,000 Christian cultists denominations!
I think it is noncontentious to say that the term "slavery" is used to refer to the ownership of people.
What *_EXACTLY_* constitutes ownership?
It's more than _control_ of something.
It's more than _possession._
It's more than _legal_ possession.
By what objective metric can we determine genuine ownership?
Ownership is a human construct and subjective in nature.
The only way to have meaningful ownership is the ability to keep someone from taking what you have.
@timothywilliams8530
That non-answer is not in any way helpful. What distinguishes slavery from clientelism, custody, guardianship, or wardship? A distinction that does not manifest in reality is indistinguishable from a distinction that does not exist. We acknowledge that these institutions are not the same thing as slavery, so _why_ not? What _makes_ them not slavery?
@@JustifiedNonetheless
Define those four terms first.
@diogeneslamp8004
"Define those four terms first."
It's not my assertion. In the interest of the principle of charity, if I intend to dispute something that another interlocutor asserts as true, I am bound to use _that_ person's definitions.
However, since you asked, the definitions *I* would use would be as follows:
Control: power to influence or direct people's behavior or the course of events
Possession: to have and control
Legal possession: to have and control by right of law
Ownership: exclusive rights and control; in the case of people, said people would have a complete loss of automy
These can be distinguished from one another in the following crucial ways. Parents have legal possession of their children; however, custody is not ownership, as children retain their autonomy. Someone who borrows another person's item has legal possession of that item, but this does not constitute a transfer of ownership, either. A person who steals an item from someone else has possession of it, but does not have legal possession of it, nor does this imply a transfer of ownership, and so on. There may be (considerable) overlap in these states, but they demonstratrably aren't equivalent.
If I own a book, I can lend it to someone else, keep it to myself, scribble in it, stick things in it, tear pages out, or burn it. It's mine. I have complete control over it. This is the metric *I* use for ownership. I am not the arbiter of meaning, though, which is why I posed the question. My feeling is, if the claim is that Bible condones and endorses the ownership of people, rather than arguing whether or not that is true we should first:
1) Determine a metric for what constitutes ownership
2) Apply the principle of reductio ad absurdum to that metric to ensure it doesn't result in absurdity
3) Compare that metric to what the text explicitly states
Slavery ends when we see one another as brothers and sisters. But that is not yet for most. (Nor was it true of Israel.) So yes, the Bible REGULATES SLAVERY until one is brought to Christ.
Paul will say in Galatians that the law was intended to bring us to Christ. When we are brought to Christ, we belong to Christ, and we are neither male, female, nor bond nor free. We are all one in Christ Jesus (Gal. 3:29) So Paul says to Philemon to consider Onesimus -- who had become a Christian -- as a brother rather than his slave.
God's way of ending slavery is to bring men and women to brotherhood in Christ.
God does not endorse slavery. He allows slavery. Somewhat similar to divorce, God detests divorce. But allows it. Jesus tells us that Moses allowed divorce because of the Israelites hardness of heart. It is God's desire that we all live peacefully together as brothers and sisters. In these evil times, Jesus tells us that we should love and pray even for our enemies. Micah tells us in chapter 6:8; He has shown you, O man, what is good; and what does the Lord require of you but to do justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God. [This verse has the pure essence of how we should be in this evil world. We have an Advocate who helps us live as we should. Certainly we fail most of the time. One day God will destroy this present heaven and earth and replace it with another heaven and earth in which believers in Jesus will live with Him. "But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, ... idolators, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, ..."
It is best to believe that there is an all-powerful God. Rather than a purely random process.]
You seem to think you ARE god.
Dan says about the New Testament (1 Timothy 1:9-10);
"kidnapping was not the only way slaves were provisioned".
How were involuntary slaves procured if not by kidnapping?
"the NT is talking about illegal slave trading".
Where in 1 Timothy 1, or elsewhere in the NT, does it limit this to "illegal" as opposed to legal slave trading?
By…purchasing them from the nations around them
@@timothywilliams8530
How did the nations around them procure involuntary slaves if not by kidnapping?
If you purchase an involuntary slave from kidnappers, you also are a kidnapper.
I agree with you, but the people back then didn't see it that way. Also, Leviticus talks about if your slave has children then those children are your property, too.
@@toddbarton1049
Yes for sure, there is slavery and even rules for slavery in the OT.
It's the "condones & endorses" conclusion that, while understandable to an extent, is not reflective of God's true position.
By the same token, you could also say, the God of the Bible condones and endorses warfare, but by the end of the book turns out, not so much.
During the Millennium, under God's government, there will be neither war nor slavery allowed.
@@glenwillson5073 Still defending the fictional Yahweh, Glenny boy?
---------------------------------------------------------
*This website is designed to spread the vicious truth about the Bible. For far too long priests and preachers have completely ignored the vicious criminal acts that the Bible promotes. The so called God of the Bible makes Osama Bin Laden look like a Boy Scout. This God, according to the Bible, is directly responsible for many mass-murders, rapes, pillage, plunder, slavery, child abuse and killing, not to mention the killing of unborn children.* I have included references to the Biblical passages, so grab your Bible and follow along.
*It always amazes me how many times this God orders the killing of innocent people even after the Ten Commandments said Thou shall not kill.* For example, God kills 70,000 innocent people because David ordered a census of the people (1 Chronicles 21).
God also orders the destruction of 60 cities so that the Israelites can live there. He orders the killing of all the men, women, and children of each city, and the looting of all of value (Deuteronomy 3). He orders another attack and the killing of all the living creatures of the city: men and women, young, and old, as well as oxen sheep, and asses (Joshua 6). In Judges 21 He orders the murder of all the people of Jabesh-gilead, except for the virgin girls who were taken to be forcibly raped and married. When they wanted more virgins, God told them to hide alongside the road and when they saw a girl they liked, kidnap her and forcibly rape her and make her your wife!
*Just about every other page in the Old Testament has God killing somebody!* In 2 Kings 10:18-27, God orders the murder of all the worshipers of a different god in their very own church! In total God kills 371,186 people directly and orders another 1,862,265 people murdered
The God of the Bible also allows slavery, including selling your own daughter as a sex slave (Exodus 21:1-11), child abuse (Judges 11:29-40 & Isaiah 13:16), and bashing babies against rocks (Hosea 13:16 & Psalms 137:9). *This type of criminal behavior should shock any moral person.*
***Murder, rape, pillage, plunder, slavery, and child abuse can not be justified by saying that some god says it’s OK.*** If more people would actually sit down and read the Bible there would be a lot more atheists like myself. Jesus also promoted the idea that all men should castrate themselves to go to heaven: For there are eunuchs, that were so born from their mother’s womb: and there are eunuchs, that were made eunuchs by men: and there are eunuchs, that made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven’s sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it (Matthew 19:12). *I don’t know why anyone would follow the teachings of someone who literally tells all men to cut off their privates.*
The God of the Bible also was a big fan of ritual human sacrifice and animal sacrifice.
*And just in case you are thinking that the evil and immoral laws of the Old Testament are no longer in effect, perhaps you should read where Jesus makes it perfectly clear:* It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid (Luke 16:17). There are many more quotes on this topic at my Do Not Ignore the Old Testament web page.
If you follow the links on this site you will learn about all the nasty things in the Bible that are usually not talked about by priests and preachers.
EvilBible.com
Also watch *Context!!!!!!* by NonStampCollector.
(A good video for believers who try and justify Biblical atrocities and immorality by saying "Out of context!)
"The God of the Bible" and "the authors of the Bible" are not identical. The authors grew up with the assumption that it was a normal part of society. God tells us to love our neighbour. It took a long long while for that to sink in, and we still have a long way to go to appreciate the implications of God's command.
Yes, the authors were real, the Abrahamic god not so much.
------------------------------‐--------------------------
*This website is designed to spread the vicious truth about the Bible. For far too long priests and preachers have completely ignored the vicious criminal acts that the Bible promotes. The so called God of the Bible makes Osama Bin Laden look like a Boy Scout. This God, according to the Bible, is directly responsible for many mass-murders, rapes, pillage, plunder, slavery, child abuse and killing, not to mention the killing of unborn children.* I have included references to the Biblical passages, so grab your Bible and follow along.
*It always amazes me how many times this God orders the killing of innocent people even after the Ten Commandments said Thou shall not kill.* For example, God kills 70,000 innocent people because David ordered a census of the people (1 Chronicles 21).
God also orders the destruction of 60 cities so that the Israelites can live there. He orders the killing of all the men, women, and children of each city, and the looting of all of value (Deuteronomy 3). He orders another attack and the killing of all the living creatures of the city: men and women, young, and old, as well as oxen sheep, and asses (Joshua 6). In Judges 21 He orders the murder of all the people of Jabesh-gilead, except for the virgin girls who were taken to be forcibly raped and married. When they wanted more virgins, God told them to hide alongside the road and when they saw a girl they liked, kidnap her and forcibly rape her and make her your wife!
*Just about every other page in the Old Testament has God killing somebody!* In 2 Kings 10:18-27, God orders the murder of all the worshipers of a different god in their very own church! In total God kills 371,186 people directly and orders another 1,862,265 people murdered
The God of the Bible also allows slavery, including selling your own daughter as a sex slave (Exodus 21:1-11), child abuse (Judges 11:29-40 & Isaiah 13:16), and bashing babies against rocks (Hosea 13:16 & Psalms 137:9). *This type of criminal behavior should shock any moral person.*
***Murder, rape, pillage, plunder, slavery, and child abuse can not be justified by saying that some god says it’s OK.*** If more people would actually sit down and read the Bible there would be a lot more atheists like myself. Jesus also promoted the idea that all men should castrate themselves to go to heaven: For there are eunuchs, that were so born from their mother’s womb: and there are eunuchs, that were made eunuchs by men: and there are eunuchs, that made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven’s sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it (Matthew 19:12). *I don’t know why anyone would follow the teachings of someone who literally tells all men to cut off their privates.*
The God of the Bible also was a big fan of ritual human sacrifice and animal sacrifice.
*And just in case you are thinking that the evil and immoral laws of the Old Testament are no longer in effect, perhaps you should read where Jesus makes it perfectly clear:* It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid (Luke 16:17). There are many more quotes on this topic at my Do Not Ignore the Old Testament web page.
If you follow the links on this site you will learn about all the nasty things in the Bible that are usually not talked about by priests and preachers.
EvilBible.com
Also watch *Context!!!!!!* by NonStampCollector.
(A good video for believers who try and justify Biblical atrocities and immorality by saying "Out of context!)
A truly omnibenevolent, omnipotent, omniscient god could have created a world where slavery wasn’t necessary or even possible.
@@diogeneslamp8004 I agree. Evidently, if God exists, he isn't at least one of those.
@@MusicalRaichu
And thus it has a lot of ‘splainin’ to do.
@@diogeneslamp8004 We are in no position to make such a demand. If anything, we're the ones who have to explain ourselves.
Because even you said in another video (Christians we have to do better at the 3:20 mark) that it is sinful. And the God of the Bible is against sin, so do the math.
Given your credentials, I know you're oversimplifying.
But we didn't exactly just get together and decide slavery was bad. It was a huge argument, with both sides utilizing the Bible. The fact that the Bible never explicitly forbids it was irrelevant in these arguments. It was argued based on principle and the horrors of how slavery actually was practiced.
When people say the God of the Bible condemns slavery, that is what they are talking about. It's akin to when we say the Constitution gives people a right to marry. No, the original source document doesn't, but an argument was made. Both sides tried to claim that they were correct, but the anti-slavery side won out.
You can talk about what the original authors intended. I 100% agree they didn't see any inherent problem with slavery. But do you think the original authors of the US Constitution intended to allow same sex marriages?
That’s a terrible analogy because the Constitution doesn’t mention marriage at all. The bible deals with slaves and slavery in almost every single book.
The Bible; the most cherry picked book in history.
This would be fine but for the fact that those who have a problem with the Bible because it contains instruction on slavery have very little appreciation for the root causes of slavery or for the passage of history. Which for a historian is a teensy bit embarrassing, Dan. Not good.
Let me be clear, I am a combination of a type 2 or type 3 apologist. But from my perspective the Bible - and God's instruction to mitigate its worst effects - came in on slavery when it was endemic, and when the alternatives to slavery were worse. So I have to ask. Which is worse? Slavery, or slaughter and starvation? Because in the bronze age those were pretty much the options available to society.
The bible itself gives alternatives. You are a typical apologist.
My own Christian life has taught me that people tend to hear God speak to their preferences. And they tend to not hear God condemn their preferences, just everybody else's. When people realize this you learn quickly that the writers and prophets got a lot correct and a lot wrong. That's why we needed a Messiah to set the record straight on what the Father is really like. We keep what Jesus teaches and we trash anything in the Bible that seems to contradict Jesus principles. And I don't give a damn what any other writer/prophet, book Bible said. When Jesus says to love your enemy, pray for your persecutors, treat others like you want to be treated i just don't care what Moses, David, or Solomon wrote about what to do to an enemy. I don't care that they said God told them. If it doesn't align with Jesus they HEARD WRONG. Always amazes me the folks who believe in the Trinity, say Jesus is God but quote everybody else in the scripture but him. 😳 You'd think Paul, Calvin, Martin Luther was the triune god based on how people act.
"it was actually the effacement of the role of the Bible as an authority that facilitated the overturning of the consensus" "We changed our minds about what we thought was right ...... and ......the Bible begins to take a back seat to other concerns and particularly human rights and natural law natural theology" There, is really the gist of it.
Of course. This is why they want to "go back" to the Bible.
Slavery is wrong. But don't ask about if you're convicted of a crime in the good ole US of A.
What to ruin your day? Go ahead and look that up. Over 800 K prisoners in this country. Some work for $00.20/hr and some don't get paid anything. One of the cornerstones of the economy is slave labour, whether you like that or not. In this country or otherwise
Enjoy your snooze
Stop justiying owning other humans. A criminal has to go to jail because of his actions. That's different than owning other humans, just because a book says so
@@leom6343 wut?
Disingenuous bullshit.
@@byrondickens what part of the verifiable and true thing that I said hurt your feelings the most?
When people realized we couldn't have slavery again, they realized they needed to spin the bible like a neutron star, so they've got new talking points.
Yes, it's an alternative look at history.
Are you a Born Again believer in God? Did you become baptized in the Holy Spirit?
Or do you just have a degree and think that is all you need to teach the Bible?
Unless one is Born again they will not see the Kingdom of God John 3v3
One not being born again will get very little Spiritual meaning from the Bible and will only be able to understand the superficial aspects of the Bible.
Dan conveniently ignores a lot of other arguments and context:
1. The form of slavery depicted in the Bible differs significantly from modern-day chattel slavery. Much of the slavery described was voluntary indentured servitude, rather than the lifelong, race or class based bondage seen in more recent history.
2. Biblical regulations concerning slavery, particularly those mandating humane treatment, were distinctive in the ancient world. These guidelines demonstrated a compassion for all individuals, regardless of status, and were unique to the Judeo-Christian tradition.
3. In Deuteronomy 23, Israelites were explicitly instructed not to return runaway slaves to their masters, showing a concern for the well-being of slaves.
4. Galatians 3:28 expresses the idea that all people are equal, a principle that inspired many Christians to support the abolition of slavery. The verse reads: "There is no longer Jew or Greek, there is no longer slave or free, there is no longer male and female; for all of you are one in Christ Jesus."
While I could expand further, Dan's response primarily addressed point #2, though he still seems to downplay its significance. The reality is that slavery was a common practice in the ancient world, and Judaism was the first religion to introduce any form of humane regulation around it. Later, Christian teachings, following the death of Christ, affirmed the belief that all individuals are equal in the eyes of God.
Although there is no explicit biblical condemnation of slavery, this is also true for other practices like alcoholism, drug addiction, pornography, racism, and gluttony. However, we can infer from biblical teachings on how we are to treat our bodies and one another that such behaviors are not endorsed. Therefore, omission in scripture should not be interpreted as endorsement. To suggest otherwise would be misleading, which Dan often is.
Incorrect,
1, they could beat their slaves to near death, they had a price for killing slaves unequal for freed persons, they could keep captured women as sex slaves forever.
2, incorrect see above. It is irrelevant that slavery might have been “better”, which is an unsubstantiated claim, when Israel has the god of creation whom will do what they ask. He can will then to have food and water when needed in the exodus but still use slaves later? See how that doesn’t work?
Dan addresses those other arguments and context in his other videos. He's not being misleading, you're just ignorant of all the topics he has addressed.
And the Bible certainly endorses chattel slavery. Even if "most" servitude was indentured rather than forced (which I doubt it was), the Bible still endorses forced generational slavery.
@@toddbarton1049 Don't you get sick of these apologist trolls and their mental gymnastics?
TL;DR
The god of the Bible condoned slavery and promulgated rules about how to conduct it as part of the law codes documented in the Old Testament. Jesus and the Apostles had an opportunity to correct those laws but failed to do so, leading us to conclude that slavery is acceptable to the biblical god.
OLD TESTAMENT
In the OT a distinction is made between Israelite and non-Israelite slaves and between debt and chattel slavery. It is the Israelite debt slaves (“indentured servants”) that can go free after six or seven years and who are the ones apologists point to when defending the slavery of the Bible. But non-Israelite slavery also existed in ancient Israel, condoned and regulated by the various legal codes in the text.
Both Israelite men and women held slaves (Genesis 16:1). Yahweh-El had the opportunity to help Hagar in her flight from Abram and Sarai, but instead commanded her to return into servitude. Whether these stories represent actual people is doubtful, but the fact remains that the biblical deity revokes her manumission.
Where did the Israelites get their slaves? They were permitted to participate in the intertribal slave trade by Leviticus 25:44-46. This serves, incidentally, as a loophole to Exodus 21:16, which forbids kidnapping: the slaves being purchased were kidnapped by someone else.
Slaves could also be taken in battle. In Deuteronomy 20:10-15 the Israelites are commanded by Moses on behalf of Yahweh-El to take as spoils of war the women and children of any city that actively opposed them.
In Deuteronomy 21:10-14 sexual slavery and genocidal rape is condoned: women from opposing tribes, now captives of war, are taken advantage of with no means of recourse or self-defense. A woman could also be sold into sexual slavery by the (typically) impoverished head of her household with the understanding that she would eventually become one of the wives of the owner. Her role would be to breed more slaves. This taking of multiple wives is recorded throughout the OT.
According to Exodus 21:1-4, part of the Covenant Code of laws given to Moses by Yahweh-El on Mount Sinai, a slave could be born into servitude. If a master gave a slave a wife and she bore him children, the slave could later go free, but the wife and children must remain with the master as his property. Exodus 21:6 gives instructions on how to make an Israelite’s enslavement permanent.
Demonstrating the difference in status between free persons and slaves, someone who deliberately kills a free person is to be put to death (Exodus 21:12), but merely “punished” if they similarly beat their slave to immediate death; however, the slave owner may go unpunished if the beaten slave survives for a day or two “for he is his property” (Exodus 21:21). Bear in mind that this is the law code Yahweh-El is delivering to the Israelites-the previous chapter of Exodus contains the Ten Commandments.
Male Israelite slaves would be freed after six years of service (Exodus 21:2), but Israelite daughters and non-Israelite slaves were excluded from this form of automatic manumission (Exodus 21:7). On the other hand, Deuteronomy 15:12 says that both male and female slaves are to be set free after six years so we have a contradiction in the biblical god’s instructions to its people.
NEW TESTAMENT
In the NT, slavery is glorified albeit in a metaphorical sense (Matthew 20:27). Paul exhorted slaves to remain obedient to their masters (Ephesians 6:5-8, Colossians 3:22-24, 1 Timothy 6:1-2, Titus 2:9-10). Peter wrote similarly in 1 Peter 2:18. In Colossians 4:1 Paul instructed slave owners to be kind to their slaves, instead of commanding them to be freed.
The key takeaway is that Jesus, the purported son of The biblical god, didn’t see fit to explicitly disclaim or countermand these pro-slavery laws.
SUMMARY
Slavery-in both its debt and chattel forms-was a part of life in the ancient Middle East. The Israelite law codes said to come from their tribal god condoned this slavery and promulgated rules on its commission. If the god of the Bible were truly omnipotent, it could have forbidden slavery outright, but instead thought it more important to regulate what people ate and the fabrics they could wear.
CURRENT STUDIES
See Catherine Hezser’s _Jewish Slavery in Antiquity_ for information about the Jewish practice of slavery in Greek and Roman times.
I'm still waiting for a coherent metric that holds up under scrutiny of reductio ad absurdum for what constitutes ownership, so that this can be compared to what the text explicitly describes.
This should go without saying, but that the fact that the _English_ copies of the text use the word "slave," for example, cannot be used as evidence because that the Bible condones/endorses slavery because 1) the text wasn't originally _written_ in English, and 2) the earliest translations _didn't_ tender the text that way (it isn't rendered that way in any major translation until the RSV in 1946.
Similarly, we cannot use the original languages' _words_ as evidence, either, because language was as descriptive then as it is now; and the terms had multiple usages _then,_ just as they do now.
The only thing to can appropriately be used to draw a valid conclusion is the usage, in context, within the explicitly stated text. Anything beyond that becomes fallacious.
That is to say that the Hebrew _ebed_ *can* be rendered as "slave," and the Greek _doúlos_ *can* be rendered as "slave," this does not imply that this the "correct" or intended interpretation.
The same is true of the Hebrew _achuzzah, qanah,_ etc.
Most scholars start the discussion related to slavery and the Bible by pointing out the treatment of slaves and servants was much kinder and gentler than what most of us in the US picture as the slavery of the 18th and 19th centuries in America/Africa. Also, under Jewish law every 7 years slaves were set free. There was no practice by the Jews of forever enslavement. Slavery was actually sought out by some as a source of steady resources support. Search Tim Keller’s Gospel in life podcast for a more complete discussion of slavery and the Bible. I regret that the Bible was used by pro slavery groups in the 17th and 18th century. That was wrong and had horrific consequences.
The children of their slaves were also their property. They were never commanded to set them free. The 7 year rule applied to male Israelites, not their wives or children. And, in fact, if the male Israelite was set free after 7 years his wife and kids could not go with him, but he could choose to become a slave for life to be with his family, if he wanted. Then his ear would be pierced with an awl to signify this.
*Slavery*
Except for murder, slavery has got to be one of the most immoral things a person can do. Yet slavery is rampant throughout the Bible in both the Old and New Testaments. The Bible clearly approves of slavery in many passages, and it goes so far as to tell how to obtain slaves, how hard you can beat them, and when you can have sex with the female slaves.
Many Jews and Christians will try to ignore the moral problems of slavery by saying that these slaves were actually servants or indentured servants. Many translations of the Bible use the word “servant”, “bondservant”, or “manservant” instead of “slave” to make the Bible seem less immoral than it really is. While many slaves may have worked as household servants, that doesn’t mean that they were not slaves who were bought, sold, and treated worse than livestock.
*The following passage shows that slaves are clearly property to be bought and sold like livestock.*
However, you may purchase male or female *slaves* from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your *slaves* like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)
*The following passage describes how the Hebrew slaves are to be treated.*
If you buy a Hebrew *slave,* he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your *slave* and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a *slave,* then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a *slave,* and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the *slave* may plainly declare, ‘I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.’ If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the *slave* will belong to his master forever. (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)
Notice how they can get a male Hebrew *slave* to become a permanent slave by keeping his wife and children hostage until he says he wants to become a permanent *slave.* What kind of family values are these?
*The following passage describes the sickening practice of sex slavery. How can anyone think it is moral to sell your own daughter as a sex slave?*
When a man sells his daughter as a *slave,* she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the *slave* girl’s owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a *slave* girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)
So these are the Bible family values! A man can buy as many sex *slaves* as he wants as long as he feeds them, clothes them, and has sex with them!
*What does the Bible say about beating slaves? It says you can beat both male and female slaves with a rod so hard that as long as they don’t die right away you are cleared of any wrongdoing.*
When a man strikes his male or female *slave* with a rod so hard that the *slave* dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the *slave* survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the *slave* is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)
*You would think that Jesus and the New Testament would have a different view of slavery, but slavery is still approved of in the New Testament, as the following passages show.*
*Slaves,* obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)
Christians who are *slaves* should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)
*In the following parable, Jesus clearly approves of beating slaves even if they didn’t know they were doing anything wrong.*
The *servant* will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. “But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given.” (Luke 12:47-48 NLT)
@@toddbarton1049 It's gets tiresome trying to correct people on this topic.
Only male slaves were freed.
@@LM-jz9vh soooo tiring.
This is just incorrect. The point of the Mosaic law is to institute a freeing ceremony, so that slaves are freed every seven years. The point of the Passover is to imagine yourself as enslaved, so as to appreciate the freeing law. The text of the Bible deals with slavery as an institution, and says barbaric things about it, but the intent of Exodus, even if it is only obvious in the distant future, is to transition to a non-slave society (or at least, only with temporary servitude). The New Testament, on the other hand, is just anti-slavery throughout.
You have no clue. To free someone only referred to Hebrews not Gentiles and the law doesn't exist in Christianity, so they don't have to free anyone
You have no clue. To free someone only referred to Hebrews not Gentiles and the law doesn't exist in Christianity, so they don't have to free anyone
@@leom6343 What you miss is that the gentiles converted. Judaism was a conversion religion until Christianity took over that role.
@@annaclarafenyo8185
*Slavery*
Except for murder, slavery has got to be one of the most immoral things a person can do. Yet slavery is rampant throughout the Bible in both the Old and New Testaments. The Bible clearly approves of slavery in many passages, and it goes so far as to tell how to obtain slaves, how hard you can beat them, and when you can have sex with the female slaves.
Many Jews and Christians will try to ignore the moral problems of slavery by saying that these slaves were actually servants or indentured servants. Many translations of the Bible use the word “servant”, “bondservant”, or “manservant” instead of “slave” to make the Bible seem less immoral than it really is. While many slaves may have worked as household servants, that doesn’t mean that they were not slaves who were bought, sold, and treated worse than livestock.
*The following passage shows that slaves are clearly property to be bought and sold like livestock.*
However, you may purchase male or female *slaves* from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your *slaves* like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)
*The following passage describes how the Hebrew slaves are to be treated.*
If you buy a Hebrew *slave,* he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your *slave* and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a *slave,* then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a *slave,* and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the *slave* may plainly declare, ‘I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.’ If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the *slave* will belong to his master forever. (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)
Notice how they can get a male Hebrew *slave* to become a permanent slave by keeping his wife and children hostage until he says he wants to become a permanent *slave.* What kind of family values are these?
*The following passage describes the sickening practice of sex slavery. How can anyone think it is moral to sell your own daughter as a sex slave?*
When a man sells his daughter as a *slave,* she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the *slave* girl’s owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a *slave* girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)
So these are the Bible family values! A man can buy as many sex *slaves* as he wants as long as he feeds them, clothes them, and has sex with them!
*What does the Bible say about beating slaves? It says you can beat both male and female slaves with a rod so hard that as long as they don’t die right away you are cleared of any wrongdoing.*
When a man strikes his male or female *slave* with a rod so hard that the *slave* dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the *slave* survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the *slave* is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)
*You would think that Jesus and the New Testament would have a different view of slavery, but slavery is still approved of in the New Testament, as the following passages show.*
*Slaves,* obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)
Christians who are *slaves* should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)
*In the following parable, Jesus clearly approves of beating slaves even if they didn’t know they were doing anything wrong.*
The *servant* will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. “But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given.” (Luke 12:47-48 NLT)
@@LM-jz9vh I didn't say the Bible was upstanding, only that slavery was limited to 7 years for those who converted, which is everybody.
You understand that only a Levite High Priest can teach about God? No rabbi, no pope, no atheist, no bible. these are all instruments of man. You've missed the point.
Wheres that written lol
@@drsatan9617 Numbers 1.
@@drsatan9617 Numbers 1.
@@drsatan9617kjv Numbers 1.
Why do you believe lying helps your cause?
The OT has yet to be translated. Cart before the horse syndrome. Endless rambling and drivel: profound and pathetic ignorance.
I translate it every year. So do millions of others. Stop projecting your hate and ignorance.
You mean you are time wasters? But ok this is also helpfull somewhat to undersand my path... i now wander wether the world feels like a maze or defintively a prison. So little time left
Who is really free without God? Without Yeshua? Without obedience? Without submission? I am convinced Freedom comes when we dwell in God and abide in Yeshua and eventually when we get to heaven. As for slavery there is a limit to pay off debt. It was also for those who abandoned God. God does want us bound. If we all see Yeshua in each of us and loved each other as God loves us … the Devil would not be doing His bidding with Slavery. I don’t believe it for God to condone. It is for us to stop the evil. The devil has no power. We give it to him.
You misunderstand. There is Hebrew bondservantship, as is explained in Leviticus 25,38-43, which is voluntary and temporary to pay off debt, they cannot be treated as slaves and must be treated as hired workers
Then there is real slavery for non hebrew as is explained in Leviticus 25 44 46, which states you can own slaves for life and pass them on as inherited property
Disgusting thought! We don’t need the make believe gods!
Otherwise, look at all the terrible things and horror those in the Christian cult have caused over the centuries!
The slavery of men and the slavery of YAHUAH are different. Leviticus teaches that a brother of Yashar’El should be treated as a hired servant until the year of Jubilee, and a stranger was a servant either brought or inherited to the individual. The act of slavery performed by the colonizers was profoundly unfair and unjust and righteous judgment will come to them.
It refers to S*AVES. YOU CAN EVEN HARM THEM
You said there is no god of the bible?
Now you’re implying there is….
I think there needs to be a little more consistency
He never said that there is no god in the Bible. He pointed out that there isn’t ONE singular god in the Bible. Particularly in the Old Testament they clearly believed that there were multiple gods. They just believed that their own god was the best.
@@mrq6270 so why is his title and description in this video “god of the bible”…
Should be more specific and consistent
What is this guy even talking about?
We study scripture to increase faith and learn the ways of God... not build some earthly Utopia.
Sheesh
Faith comes by hearing, hearing by the word of God.
He's talking about what the authors of the Bible and their readers thought, how that differs from what modern readers think and why. How did you manage to miss that?
@marknieuweboer8099 well, if you can't understand our dependence and need for Christ, his teaching is futile.
He doesn't sound like a believer.
And the prophetic messages could not be understood until the late 19th century.
So you're fine with slavery. Got it.
@TheDanEdwards lie...
Slavery is a historical fact.
Slaves under Mosaic law are now called employees, tenants, and debtors.
Sheesh
@@cedward5718 The Abrahamic god isn't real. You are thick as a brick.
I'm not getting rid of my faith. I'm not getting rid of my bible. And I am NOT becoming an atheist. If that makes me "ignorant" in your eyes... I... DON'T... CARE.
Lucky for you that NO ONE is trying to get you to "get rid of your faith or your bible", tho it would be nice if you had some godly respect
for truth rather than gleefully spitting on it like a four-year-old.
But as long as you don't try to force those who don't share your beliefs to live their lives according to your beliefs , I....DON'T....CARE.
Slavery in the bible was the "straw that broke the camel's back" in terms of me believing in god. And as the NT does not totally and simply condemn slavery as immoral, I find the Christian perspective on it to be ambiguous at best. Not all Christians of course, but an alarming number use apologetics to argue that slavery was not always that bad, that slaves were just employees or servants, or that slavery was a 'temporary" position.This was actually true in term of Jewish slaves being temporary, but does the time period matter? Not only could my own ethics accept a slavery-loving god, but I didn't find believers in such a god as suitable company. So the Abrahamic faiths: Judaism, Christianity and Islam all have traditions of slavery as an acceptable practice, I could dismiss them all. Likewise any other religion or culture that thought the practice of slavery acceptable.
Of course many other things gave my ethical or intellectual indigestion. Misogyny, the apparent glee about war, and war crimes, and of course the false naturalistic claims in Genesis etc about origins, the very dubious supernatural claims, "miracles" and so on.
The bible is neither a scientific text, nor some great tome about ethics. As a "moral compass"? Absolutely not.
Jesus believed in slavery
They don't read their Bible is why 😢
My own Christian life has taught me that people tend to hear God speak to their preferences. And they tend to not hear God condemn their preferences, just everybody else's. When people realize this you learn quickly that the writers and prophets got a lot correct and a lot wrong. That's why we needed a Messiah to set the record straight on what the Father is really like. We keep what Jesus teaches and we trash anything in the Bible that seems to contradict Jesus principles. And I don't give a damn what any other writer/prophet, book Bible said. When Jesus says to love your enemy, pray for your persecutors, treat others like you want to be treated i just don't care what Moses, David, or Solomon wrote about what to do to an enemy. I don't care that they said God told them. If it doesn't align with Jesus they HEARD WRONG. Always amazes me the folks who believe in the Trinity, say Jesus is God but quote everybody else in the scripture but him. 😳 You'd think Paul, Calvin, Martin Luther was the triune god based on how people act.
Jesus believed in slavery
My own Christian life has taught me that people tend to hear God speak to their preferences. And they tend to not hear God condemn their preferences, just everybody else's. When people realize this you learn quickly that the writers and prophets got a lot correct and a lot wrong. That's why we needed a Messiah to set the record straight on what the Father is really like. We keep what Jesus teaches and we trash anything in the Bible that seems to contradict Jesus principles. And I don't give a damn what any other writer/prophet, book Bible said. When Jesus says to love your enemy, pray for your persecutors, treat others like you want to be treated i just don't care what Moses, David, or Solomon wrote about what to do to an enemy. I don't care that they said God told them. If it doesn't align with Jesus they HEARD WRONG. Always amazes me the folks who believe in the Trinity, say Jesus is God but quote everybody else in the scripture but him. 😳 You'd think Paul, Calvin, Martin Luther was the triune god based on how people act.
More like which make believe god do you think is talking to you and then pick and choose what you want…..