“I didn’t betray my Jedi...” That’s actually true because Ahsoka was NOT a Jedi at the time, ANAKIN was his Jedi general. He never betrayed Anakin. So what he said is true... from a certain point of view.
@@de4thstroke32 and I'm still convinced in that first instance when he said he'd do it to get the other two clones to stand down, I think he shot at the clones.
I was so annoyed when they cut this insult from the Ahsoka book. Maul mocks Ahsoka, saying that she isn’t a real Jedi. Ahsoka responds by saying, “‘It’ll be a fair fight then,’ she retorted, looking him up and down. ‘You’re only half a Sith.”’
Siths can change their eye color. You see this in revenge of the sith with Palpatine and Anakin. Anakin's eyes are yellow after he killed the separatists but later are back to blue when he talks to padme and then back to yellow again when he screams I hate you to obiwan. Same thing with Palpatine. They were blue before but become yellow after killing windu.
I believe the eye color is really dependent on how much they are channeling the darkside at the moment. Palpatine went full yellow eyes when he started the lightning in full darkside power. Same with Anakin with the separatists
Read Dark Disciple. It tells you all about Sith eyes and how they work. The eyes come and go periodically- Quinlan Vos' eyes change colors multiple times in the book even while he is still aligned with the Dark Side.
Yup, came here to point this out too. He does specifically say to scuttle all means of transport. Really that should have meant the shop Mail took off with should have been destroyed too so one hole closes and another opens it seems.
@@JamesKellyWickerman123 I mean not really... Consider the fact that Ahsoka set Maul free to wreak havoc as well as the fact that she 'captured' their commander. Pretty sure that would alter their priorities a touch. It's still convenient that there was a shuttle left, yes, but Star Wars has ALWAYS been a story of conveniences so it's not much of a stretch.
Well it was sent by sideous he knew maul got captured and thought the clones would kill him during order 66 he didn’t think anyone would let maul out so the shuttles probably weren’t sent which Ik is a big if but it’s a possibility
Actually the Rex one isn’t a plot hole. He says he didn’t betray his Jedi, yes he shot at her, but he had no control over it. BUT he gave Ashoka a clue what to do by telling her “Fives”. He had faith in her living and finding that message.
I don't know, he does say "Wolffe, Gregor and I removed our chips rather than betray our Jedi. We all had a choice," while the tragedy of The Clone Wars is that the clones really didn't have a choice. Ahsoka had to knock Rex unconscious in order to remove his chip. Just my opinion, I find that plot hole a little annoying
@@conorb7094 In the end, they did have a choice. They were given that choice after Order 66 was issued. Rex especially made the choice to fight the programming and not just stand by his brothers.
I feel like Rex means it when he says that he didn't betray his Jedi. Out of anyone who received the order, he fought it as hard as he could, even telling Ahsoka what to look for before succumbing to his programming. ("Fives") Some people seem to think that just because Ahsoka left the order she was not HIS Jedi, but I find that untrue. She was just as much a part of the 501st to them then as before she left. It's why they still refer to her as commander despite having no true authoritative rank. She spent years fighting by their side, being just as much a brother in their ranks as any member. Granted it's subject to interpretation, but that's how I perceived it.
If the Venator was sent from Coruscant to transport Maul and Ahsoka, along with the Shock Troopers, it'd make sense if Palpatine would've wanted to minimize Ahsoka's chances of survival by sending an under equipped cruiser...
That's what I was thinking, that does leave a problem with the shuttle being there. I could only see it as Palpatine either was giving maul an out or he wanted to see the escapees fight over it. Not even an escape for the troops was necessary, we either the ship gets back to coruscant or everyone dies.
I was thinking and I agree with that, simply because of the presence of the shock troopers, Palpatine’s personal clone troopers were there, Palpatine had to be involved with the cruiser and knowing order 66 was coming make sure the cruiser force wielders were dead, as Jesse said they were under special orders to execute Ashoka and Maul by Palpatine
Rex also referred to himself as Captain after the Clone Wars because he didn’t like being the rank of commander. He felt that spot was reserved for Ashoka. As mentioned when Ashoka is shown the soldiers with the orange painted helmets. He calls her commander, she says he doesn’t have to call her commander, and then responds, “Ok...Commander”
Rex probably believes that he didn’t betray his Jedi/Asoka because he didn’t kill her. Or Asoka isn’t a Jedi, and when he said that line, he was talking about Anakin as his Jedi. Since he was no where near Anakin at the time, he couldn’t have betrayed his Jedi.
I actually like the idea that Vader's eyes turned back blue, but only very briefly. Since in my mind he's only relatively recently become Darth Vader seeing the lightsaber of his former Padawan and friend with the crystal he put in it himself amongst the makeshift graves of his own legion was able to make the Anakin side of him come to the surface but only for a moment before the anger and hatred of Vader fought back and took right back over. Then by the time Rebels comes around the Vader side of him has pushed Anakin so far down in his minf, that anger and pain has built up inside him for so long that then the only thing that could bring him back and bring him back for more than just a few fleeting moments was his son. I honestly prefer that and think that doesn't discredit what Dave said at all as he was talking about that during the Rebels timeline. Just my head canon though.
@Morgan Bragg That's the thing, like Dave said Ahsoka couldn't turn him back at all. And I know his eyes stayed yellow. But the way he retracted his lightsaber when he seen her which he never does, the way he tried to barter instead of just slaughtering her like he had to so many Jedi already, the way he looked at her and his voice when he said "Ahsoka..." It's almost like Vader was fighting to keep Anakin Skywalker locked away. I don't think she turned him back there, but I feel like she did cause an internal struggle within him briefly in Rebels before he snapped back into Sith Lord mode.
@@KevynKing I've heard theories that Vader may have wanted to turn Ahsoka into an inquisitor considering she was no longer a Jedi and had a right to resent them and also the vision of older Ahsoka telling Ahsoka Anakin sowed some darkness into Ahsoka, etc
@@yrsruby5396 I've heard that theory as well. And I like it. I think it adds to what I think which is that subconsciously he was trying to do everything he could so he wouldn't have to kill Ahsoka. He bargained, tried to have her join him, etc.
In my headcanon, he didn't fully become Vader until that moment we see in the finale. He lost almost everything and had only one thing left... he probably held onto hope that Ahsoka and Rex were alive and it kept a small peice of Anakin alive too. When he found that wreckage and "learned" that his best friend, little sister, companion in war and life, and someone who always had his back and believed in him no matter what... someone who, in his mind, might still be able to save him from this living nightmare, who came to his aid dozens of times and kept him grounded in a way Obi Wan never could; when he realized she was gone forever.... That is when Anakin died. He felt then (in his mind) that the Jedi order betrayed him and weren't what he believed in and dedicated his life to, his brother and mentor betrayed him and turned his love against him and caused her death by his own hands! His body and mind have been broken and twisted and he knows it, and he is looking for something... anything to hold onto. Some bit of solid ground, something to ground him to who he is. His *identity* was Anakin Skywalker, Chosen One, *JEDI Knight* and Lover of Padme. Those things where who he was, he had no real personality of his own. Except one small part. The part he loved about himself, the part that he respected most about himself and showed him what kind of man he was truly capable of being. He wasn't good at being a Jedi, too many rules and bureaucracy. He wasn't good at being a lover or husband, he was creepy and aggressive and never learned a healthy way of expressing love. He was a bad student because he had a chosen one complex and wasn't one for following orders.. so what was that part? Being a teacher. Being a role model. Being a big brother. He was good at that, great! He had to be the best version of himself to share it with someone he grew to love and care about so she could be her best self too! Ahsoka made him better, she challenged him and showed him the error of his ways many times. Often she would copy his reckless behavior and get in trouble and he would learn from her mistakes as well, because they were his mistakes too. Ahsoka was the healthiest and most important of Anakins relationships and he knew it. She taught him a healthy way to love and be loved, a healthy way to take criticism and deal it out, she taught him the importance of questioning things and looking for a way to do the right thing. (arguably this backfired.) Ahsoka gave him perspective whenever he started to lose it and always kept him planted on the right side. Where he felt judgment and criticism from Obi and the council, he felt concern and respect from Ahsoka. He felt used and manipulated by the Jedi, by the Senate, By Palpatine, and even Padme.. Ahsoka never made him feel that way. He could honestly be himself around her, and it taught him who he was, he was starting to learn who Anakin Skywalker really was, and he immediately started losing it without her. (Trench..) Basically Ahsoka was very much his last and most important lifeline and when she "died" so did Anakin. Skyguy was no more. That was a lot, but I just wanted to get it out of my head and put it somewhere lol sorry to dump my brain on your shoes. My bad. Also, I really like Ahsoka. Shes my favorite SW character.
for the one where Rex says he didn’t betray his jedi, it probably wasn’t the right time and place to explain the full story of “well i did betray my jedi at first, but then she knocked me out and removed my inhibitor chip so i would stop trying to kill her and help her escape.” being that Kanan was very suspicious of them already for good reason
I've always had the thought that, while Ahsoka could never fully bring Anakin back, she could for just a split second, and I think that's shown both in her confrontation with Vader and in the last CW scene.
The entire Ahsoka novel is definitely not decanonized - there are a few pages of flashbacks that talk about the siege of Mandalore and how both Ahsoka and Rex escaped order 66, however the rest of the novel focuses more on Ahsoka a year later and is definitely still worth a read after the finale of Clone Wars!
I just recently read the novel and I really liked it, it was kinda a boomer for me when watching Ahsoka duel with Maul and realizing it was different from the one in the book.
I actually listened to the audible version during my commute. Listening to Ashley Eckstein narrate really added to the experience. One of my favorite post Legends novels.
I don’t, I want them to Finnish the other like 20 episodes they were working on. I’d also like to see the Maul Son of Dathomir comics animated, as they were supposed to be episodes. If we were to follow Vader it wouldn’t be the “Clone Wars”.
12:47 The only thing I can think of that explains the lack of ships on board the Venator is that the ship was loaded mainly with LAAT's and they left them behind to safeguard Mandalore since they didn't need to worry about any starfighter based interceptions on the gunships or the Venator itself that could safely approach it. It still doesn't explain why there wasn't at least an ETA Actis ii though
i think it has two possible answers, sidious send the ship with and empty hangar prediciting that order 66 was very near and did not want to give maul nor ahsoka a possibility to escape the clones. nor it may have been a contious desision from the jedi that they wanted to give maul next to no chance to escape the venator and psossibly hoped to set the hangar trap for maul in case he tried to leave with the only vessel on board of the venator. or try escape pods but then he was an eeasy target for the venator or the shuttle. but probably indeed the idea was to set it up for the finaly
I find this to be logical. The Mandalore occupying force lost many ships during the invasion, so wherever this particular ship came from, it would make sense that they would offload as many ships as they safely could prior to their return to Curuscant, while also taking on extra damaged ships to take back for repair. They still would have likely kept some for their own defense and safety, but it also makes sense that the clones would have destroyed them along with the escape pods. So I believe there would have been fewer ships on board that would have needed destroyed. Why they would have destroyed all ships except 1 shuttle? Not sure. Maybe as bait, but that still seems risky and irresponsible, so that seems the bigger plot hole.
Rex being promoted to Commander isn’t technically a plot hole - because he wasn’t made Commander of the whole 501st legion. He was only temporarily put in charge of the 332nd subdivision, and in order to fill the void that it left in the chain of command, Vaughn substituted for Rex as Captain. Similarily, Appo was then also elevated to the rank of Commander, despite the fact that he only held the title of Sergeant, so that he could lead the remainder of the 501st’s forces in the meantime. Hence why Rex never saw himself as a Commander, because his promotion was never permanent.
Actually there were multiple commanders of the 501st such as Bow and Vill however Vill came after order 66 to replace Appo when he gets his head cut off in the comics but Bow was in the order 66 comics.
I can only imagine if they had Rex serving under Anakin when they executed Order 66. That would of been a cool live action scene right there. A Clone Captain with duel pistols and a special armor design just walking side by side with Vader as they march into the temple, the 501st behind them.
He did everything he could to give Ahsoka a fighting chance while he was being taken control of by telling her to look for Fives in his last moments of control. So, yes: he didn't betray her.
Actually, the lack of ships on the Venator makes sense. It’s coming from Coruscant. This episode takes place a little while after the Battle on Coruscant, meaning this ship was probably used during said battle. With most of its recourses being used, they might not have had time (or felt the need) to resupply.
Came here to post just this. The space battle over Coruscant was a shitshow; Obi Wan and Anakin's whole fighter escort got slaughtered and they, two of the best Jedi in the Order (including one of the best Star Pilots in the Galaxy) BARELY made it to Grievous' command ship. I bet that was the most small craft they could spare. Also, it's essentially a milkrun: Enter hyperspace, where you can't be tracked, from Coruscant, surrounded by dozens of friendly ships. Exist hyperspace over an allied world with a Venator already in orbit. Pick up passengers. Return via hyperspace, untraceable again. Arrive back to dozens of friendly ships. They didn't need the fighter complement they usually did, and probably couldn't have gathered a normal complement if they had felt the need.
Volksc well in that case the presence of the red armoured Coruscant Defence Force clones is odd, but also easy enough to answer the lack of ships- wartime attrition plus losses & damaged craft in the battle of Mandalore
Everyone is talking about how Rex said I didn't betray my jedi and arguing about whether Ashoka counted as a jedi or more, was ever his true jedi, Anakin not being there etc. Has anyone considered he said that just to make Kanan trust him. What was he supposed to say, I kinda resisted but still fired at her. Sure that brings trust. The real story could come out once Rex, Kanan and Ashoka are together.
It’s not really a argument in rebels she said she was no jedi so she probably wasn’t a Jedi since she left the order so Rex didn’t attack his Jedi General
@@Adam-jn7nc It still matters as Clones were imprinted and schooled in militarised, basically enclosed, society. The ranks, the honor, the drill was basically their way of life. See, being demoted isnt a big deal if you are a civilian enlisted in a military and only THEN schooled to be obedient soldier. Clones were raised in a warrior culture, a bit ancient one even. In such cultures being demoted, or humiliated in such way as revoking your warrior status is a big deal. Look at history. Not so long ago (relatively speaking) entire wars were waged due to the fact that some knights or aristocrats were humiliated. In such predicament, demoting Rex was actually a good way to show how, well, "alien" clone culture is.
For the Venator lacking shuttles and ships, I’d say it’s simple: they have MAUL. Ship came from Courascant. Ship was most likely sent/influenced by Sideous. He had fighters and shuttles removed before the ship was sent since he doesn’t want Maul loose. Then, when everything goes down, they have a single shuttle to deliver Maul’s holding device and that’s it. Hopefully that helps :)
This makes the most sense to me. Another reason could be that all those ships were simply needed elsewhere and they kept a bare minimum on the Venator just in case, plus one shuttle because prisoner delivery.
And also I guess there's only one shuttle that can go to Hyperspace to escape. There's no interest to steal a LAAT to stay stuck on a random planet. That's also why they choose a Y-Wing which is capable to go to Hyperspace.
The way I viewed it was that Sidious knew Order 66 was gonna happen soon and that he wanted Ahsoka and Maul on board with no chance of escape when it happened
@@PureEvil616 Very good point. This was not a fully-equipped venator, but one designed for transporting a dangerous criminal and leftover forces from the battle.
12:55 I can answer that with one name. Palpatine. He made it this way so that when the order was done and Ahsoka was alone on a ship with thousands of clones even if she somehow survived the sneak attack of order 66 the clones would go ALL OUT. Sabotaging any escape plans. Leaving only one ship for the top clones who where the most loyal and the most deadly.
Another HUGE plot hole: Padme tells Anakin she is pregnant after the battle of courscant, meanwhile she is shown to be pregnant while talking with anakin during the first episode of season 7
I believe that sidious intentionally didn't supply the venator with gunships as they would be a easy escape for Ashoka, the one person that could have brought him back to the light.
I think it's really unfair to claim that the Ahsoka novel no longer counts, since the book isn't even about the Siege of Mandalore and more about what happens after all of that. Some details change here or there, but the ultimate point and story of the book isn't affected to any notable degree.
Kross Rex did say that everything was to be locked down. Maybe the clones moved everything from immediate access so that there was less opportunity for escape. Doesn’t explain why the shuttle wouldn’t be moved as the order had been given to kill Maul so the need to transport him would have been irrelevant. Idk, I just like the republic shuttle design. I do like how you can see V-Wings in the maintenance hanger, I feel like they should have been used more instead of the Z-95’s for this season
@@-Flea I think Palpatine wanted to make sure that Maul had no way of escaping so that he couldn’t tell the Jedi about his plan and about Anakin. Thats why there were no ships
Same thing I noticed I also liked how you could see the subtle hints on Anakin and Obi in Ahsoka a stance here or an attack there that looked like the duel of fates they did well with everyones fighting style I feel.
With the Venator lacking its vehicle complement I believe this is explainable. They did just return from the Siege of Mandalore. It's possible that the Venator deployed all of its vehicles and now after a mission, they're undergoing regular maintenance before being put back in service. Just because Rex says "They're all under maintenance" doesn't necessarily mean that they're all not flyable. I'm sure it was just a matter of not wanting to take a risk and accidentally take a ship that was, for example, leaking fuel.
By the way don’t know if you know, but people have said in the comments that Rex put out an order for all escape pods to be destroyed and hanger to be monitored
gunships probably aren't hyperdrive capable, meaning they'd want a specific shuttle. But I'd have to do some research to be sure. I think the whole thing makes sense.
Also, why would they send a spaceship with many military ships to mandalore. Like why would they send gunships to transfer some clones and maul back to coruscant. That is not a Plothole at all.
Yep, also, there were probably more ships but those ships were not still in the hanger...... They probably went down on those moving floors and were stored in an not easily accessible part of the ship.
Stanley Lueg I’m talking LAAT/i’s or LAAT/c’s. I did a little research, according to wookieepedia’s page on them their max capable speed is 620 kph. That figure is from the Ultimate Star Wars reference book written by Ryder Windham. The wiki page does mention modified LAAT’s that can handle the vacuum of space and have artificial gravity, but I couldn’t find anything about them having a hyperdrive. It’s possible, but I think unlikely.
You're very well-spoken and entertaining to listen to. I enjoy the amount of detail you put into each point and, of course, the KotOR music behind them.
It might be that Ahsoka has a faint memory. It didn't actually have to be what happened, but what she remembered of it. Maybe the tragedy of what happened, clouded her memory of how it happened.
The closed plothole about the Madalorians acknowledging their past was amazing in my opinion. In the opening scene of "Shattered," Bo Katan and Asoka talk about how Mandalore needs a different kind of leader, while they look at the "Peace Park" that was bombed in "The Duchess of Mandalore" episode in the Clone Wars This bombing was the first event we see on Mandalore in Star Wars Canon and is seen as the start of the militant era of Death Watch. Now the monument is a smoldering reminder of Duchess Satine and the collapse of the New Mandalorian peace, showing what they were trying to avoid.
I think the reason there wasn’t many gun ships in the hanger is that it could have been a precaution in case maul escaped the prison case and so there would be less points of escape to cover for the clones
I’m confused though, at the end of clone wars Rex and Ahsoka leave pretending to be dead so why did Rex say he didn’t bother to report some bases to the empire. If Rex and Ahsoka left after the Venator crashed and ‘betraying’ the republic why did he need to report to the empire And how did they even know he was alive. Surely he would’ve been killed for helping Ahsoka escape
Me 1. Reason might be that he reported them to the republic that later on became the empire or 2. He went back to the empire inorder to try to convert more of his brothers (Gregor and wolf) so to look not so suspicious he retired from the military and gave any info he knew to an officer
How would the empire know he helped Ahsoka escape? Everyone who could have reported that information to the Empire died in that crash. Rex and Ahsoka were the only two who survived it. We do not currently know where Rex went or what he told to whom after escaping the crash.
I think the empire are probably aware that he is a clone but don't know which one...... The clone 'Rex' 'died' but he probably assumed another ct number.
kieron halliday the problem with that though is that in rebels, when Rex is captured and taken to the bridge on a star destroyer, the admiral/officer in charge identified him by his number and name.
For the final plot point, it could be that Sidious directly sent the shuttle and by having knowledge that it would soon be the time to commence order 66, he made sure Ahsoka and Maul couldn't escape. It also could have been a precaution to make sure Maul can't escape the ship.
I always saw Rex's "I didn't betray my Jedi" line as referencing Anakin, since he's the Jedi Rex served and Ahsoka wasn't even a Jedi anymore by the time of Order 66, so either way considering her to be Rex's Jedi doesn't fit
People seem to forget that the shot of Vader is after he learned the existence of Luke. What you see in that shot is the beginning of the conflict in Vader.
How? Rebels, with the exception of the epilogue in the finale, takes place entirely before the Battle of Yavin. At this point, Vader thinks the children of Anakin Skywalker died with Padmé.
For the one ship problem: You could say that maybe since the REALLY didn't want mall to escape they only had one transport ship, so if he were to escape they could all just protect the ship and he would have no way out. Idk I just think it might make sense of that was the case
I wondered why the shuttle was literally the ONLY craft in that massive hangar. As far as any differentiation between The Ahsoka book and this arc, I definitely prefer this version. The book was good and did not need improvement, but the way I interpret is that Filoni had the story thought through prior and has earned the right to flesh it out as he sees fit regardless of prior stories. To me, Disney made the Legends framework to be one that can be interpretive. We could take this as one clone's or mandalorian's telling of the events (maybe even Saxon's). Rex does have some explaining to do considering his friendliness with the Empire. It could be that it was the only way to reach his fellow clones who were aware of Order 66. I wish it would have explained their situation but there have been theories that we may get stray episodes or answers from comics.
I had the impression that the shuttle with the Guard came from Courscant itself rather than the Venator. It has been mentioned in the arc that the Republic was leaving a clone garrison on Mandalor for the transitionary period. It wouldn’t be too far fetched to believe that most LAATs and operational fighters from the one Venator would be left to support what at that point was a planet wide operation realistically. It also wouldn’t be unreasonable to believe that said shuttle would hitch a ride back on the Venator back with Maul for added security. We never see any large group of Courscant Guard. Only those few troopers to facilitate the transfer. There’s no reason to believe there was a large contingent of CG. Also, that Venator was sent from Anakin’s fleet with his troopers onboard, that we see in the episodes. We also know that it was not a full attack force as Anakin split is own forces while leaving to a large scale and, realistically, far more important battle. There’s little reason to believe that each Venator under Skywaker and Kenobi’s fleet would be fully stocked with both troops and various vehicles to begin with as from what we see in TCW and have gotten from ROTS the Outer Rim Sieges have been ongoing and we saw that they had just came from at least one large battle that did not seem to be going well and would be unreasonable to assume they sustained no losses. With those two thoughts in mind it’s not at all far fetched to believe that most of the fighters and support ships would have been moved to the vessels headed to a larger, more important battle and that most likely the single Venator going to Mandalore, which was not even an approved mission, did not have anything close to a full compliment. I see no plot hole here at all.
I think that Vader showing remorse when picking up Ahsoka's Lightsaber can be linked up to when he got his first sith Lightsaber. When Vader acquired his first lightsaber, he acquired it from a jedi. When he picked it up he gained a vision of what could've been if he had listened to Obi-wan's pleas on Mustafar. When he picked up Ahsoka's lighsaber he gained a vision of what could've been with Ahsoka if he had never fallen to the dark side.
For the start destroyer one. Palatine knew Ashoka and maul would be on board when he ordered 66. He could've sent a stripped cruiser to try and ensure they didn't escape. Maul was a threat or became some kind of pawn for palp. And he wanted all Jedi and potential opponents destroyed and Ashoka fits that.
Personally I always saw the scene with Vader at the end of the last episode to be the last moments of Anakin. In episode 3 he loses everything and because of that becomes Vader but because of clone wars we know Ashoka and Rex are still out there so he didn't lose everything. However in this moment he understands he has also lost them and completely destroys what was left of Anakin Skywalker fully becoming Vader.
A lore explanation of why Rex addresses himself as Captain is that all those under his command as Commander are now deceased. Meaning everyone else (Gregor and Wolfe) would not have been aware of his promotion shortly before Order 66
the lack of gunships and fighters in the hangar bay could be explained, if they were left together with a bunch of clones as an occupation force on Mandalore
I thought the lack of gunship and fighters were destroyed during the start siege of mandalor, also most of the fighters and gunship went to battle of coruscant with Kenobi and Skywalker. For no reason I'll just put this one out there, that's why Ahsoka asked for reinforcement during the siege of mandalore.
Yeah, it's just him trying to find everything he can grab his hands on to proclaim there are serious plot holes. In a time of war, right after a major battle... how dare the hangars be empty! As he said: "it's incredibly stupid" after all... These kind of videos of "fans" nitpicking every inconsequential tidbits...
The lack of gunships in the venator from courasant shows just how cautious and careful the Republic was against Maul in the event that he breaks out the clones could jettison the escape pods and blow up or send away the ship that would take maul to his original destination
@@Mr12Relic some of the gunships would be tacticaly better and remember during the end when the venetor from corasaunt arrived they would've had gunships
The few seconds Rex gave to Ahsoka and him mentioning fives is enough for me that he didn’t betray her. All of the other clones were ready to instantly gun any force user down but Rex fought it just long enough to save her and that’s what matters in the end. The siege of mandalore arc my goodness, best Star Wars ever written???
I think that last plot hole is intentional. Think about it, palpatine would have known that the 501 was split cause he contacted Rex directly. He also knew that there was maul and Ashoka on that ship, so having that new carrier come with nothing would ensure that neither would escape. I think there was one ship in because of the shuttle they used to carry maul to the carrier.
For "I've never betrayed my Jedi," you could take it as it wasn't Rex's fault for trying to kill Ahsoka. It was a chip forcing him to. He had no control. Then right when he was free from that control he never really betrayed her, but eh that's how I'm gonna accept it so it's not a plot hole.
Rex ordered all forms of escape to be destroyed or disabled, which explains the abundance of ships including gunships in the maintenance area beneath the main hangar.
#4 at 5:49 I wouldn't say is a plot hole, more likely a minor twist on the truth to either gain kanan's trust or because Rex had been kicking himself for dot doing what he said for so long he believed it.he also really didn't betray ashoka, due to the chip.
I mean, the Rex one could be interpreted differently too. When Rex says "I didn't betray my Jedi" maybe he only considers betrayal if you carry it out to completion? Ahsoka forgives Rex right then and there when he wakes up in the Medbay and Rex learns it wasn't him but the chip.
I know one big flaw with the Order 66 episodes Ahsoka ain't a Jedi, she’s a civilian advisor that happened to be a former Jedi... Also I thought the reason the Canon and Legends label and the creation of the Storygroup was to prevent retcons in their new materials... I'll edit this once I'm done with this video... Probably...
Did you miss the entire part of the episode where Rex tried this very argument (that Ahsoka was not a Jedi) with the other clones? They weren't having it, saying she was a Jedi and/or listed specifically in the order.
Dar-Nak Kallig in the comic series of DARTH Vader it is stated that clones had a doctrine similar to “once a Jedi always a Jedi” this is when they use the clones against the inquisitors so there is an explanation
Perhaps they retcon the novel because not everyone reads. Ahsoka wasn't Rex's Jedi, nor was she even a Jedi, and Kanan doesn't need to know about his participation in order 66 I noticed Vader had eyebrows in Rebels. They burn off in Revenge of the Sith, grow back before Rebels and they are gone again in Return of the Jedi (canonically speaking of course, since in the original 1983 release he had eyebrows).
I think they retconned it so that they didn't write themselves into a corner. They were working with 12 episodes, and having 8 of them already being told before wouldn't really be that great. Plus almost nothing existed for the original episodes. They were intended to be the final 4 episodes of Season 8, and they had barely begun work on Season 7, so all that existed for it were a few notes and drawings, whereas something like Dark Discple had a completed script.
Plot hole 1: So the novel is not Canon. 2 He resisted the chip and told Ashoka about 5s; What Rex said is true from a certain point of view. 3 any gunships would be under repair after the siege and in the garage not the bay hence they were shooting straight for Corrosant because of their already split Legion and dimished mechanised warfare ability
Quickly, for your 2nd last point, on that there are few ships in the Venatar class, they may have not equipped that ship with ships as many other jedi who were not just using hyper space may have needed extra support and they decided to take risk.
When you think about it, Rex _didn't_ betray his Jedi--from a certain point of view. In the last seconds of him struggling to resist the chip, he tells Ahsoka vital information that allows her to find out what is going on. He tells her to find Fives. And then he loses control. He really _didn't_ betray his Jedi. He did all he could.
Actually, I think the venator was purposely being held empty (perhaps by palpatine) cuz they knew what was about to happen so ashoka and maul wouldnt have had an easy chance to escape giving the clones an easier chance to kill them
How can it decanonize the whole Ahsoka book when it only retcons the introduction and a middle interlude. These are just small details that don't really effect the overall story. This is just a stupid suggestion
The last plot hole makes sense. They’ve just come back from fighting on mandalore so I’m guessing a lot of the gunships and stuff got destroyed. Also they’re hauling back maul. Maybe they have one shuttle for as many of the clones as possible if an event such as maul escaping and bringing the ship out of lightspeed occurs.
Plot hole 1. Johnston's thoughts on the flashbacks being decanonized: ekjohnston.tumblr.com/post/616936802470772736/so-uh-you-dont-to-have-to-answer-but-are It's 1/70th of the book, and the rest of it is canon. She actually finds it very frustrating that people say the entire novel has been decanonized. Also that the soul of the story has remained the same, in her words. Lucas did a lot of things like this when he ran TCW (like with the Zygerria arc), and it's unlikely to happen in the future, since two people aren't going to be adapting the same concept. Canon isn't falling apart. It's similar to the small contradictions between the movies, novelizations, junior novelizations, and comic adaptations. And frankly, other than Ahsoka saying "you're only half a Sith" the story presented in the arc is better. Although I think that the lightsaber color change is not just stupid, but also contradictory to more than just the Ahsoka novel. And they should have both been left on Ahsoka's "grave", but the armor being left behind honestly goes either way for both story quality and continuity. The Ahsoka novel gives no indication about why she told Bail that her code name should be Fulcrum. The chapter is from Ahsoka's POV, but an absence of thoughts being revealed to us isn't a sign that they're not there. POV characters in books think about their secret plans without telling the reader and not going full unreliable narrator. So she totally could have decided to use Fulcrum as a code name because is was Saw's frequency for talking with the Republic. It would now be free, but give her a connection with Saw's partisans. Plot hole 2: A lot of other commenters have pointed out Rex is saying that he never betrayed his Jedi through a combination of lying and technicalities. This just makes me more interested in the situation where Kix was kidnapped by the Separatists Because before it was kind of implied that Kix was the one who preformed the procedure, and Palpatine wanted Dooku to question him to find out who else he had told. On the eye color thing: It doesn't matter if Ahsoka had the full potentional to bring Anakin back. We already know that it switched during his early days as Darth Vader. In Darth Vader #7 (2017), Vader tries to bleed his lightsaber crystal. He has a vision that's basically "it isn't too late, you can change your path" and the last panel before the vision begins features him with blue eyes. Like they make a point to throw him across the cave so the lense can brake. When he rejects this future, the eyes turn red again. So if Vader's eyes were blue at Ahsoka's "grave", it was because seeing it caused him to question the path he was on, but only for a moment. And by the time of Twilight of the Apprentice, he was much more confident in his role as Darth Vader that such a thing couldn't happen. Heck, the epilogue could take place before the "vader gets his lightsaber arc". Plot hole 3: It came from Coruscant, that's your explanation. It isn't fully equipped because the war has been raging on and isn't high on the resupply list because it isn't heading to the front lines. Perhaps it even lost ships in the Battle of Coruscant
In Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader, it's said that Vader had to be cleansed of necrotic skin and that synthetic skin was given to him afterwards. This novel is considered "Legends" now, but it's still a valid explanation.
I think the one of the venator not having any ships in the hangar makes sense because it wasn't sent for a mission, it wasn't supposed to go into any battles, it was just to pick them up and bring them right back, so it wouldn't need any extra ships, and the one of Rex saying he didn't betray his Jedi could have easily been him withholding parts of the story, as everyone tells a story slightly differently and maybe he either didn't remember that part because of the trance it puts clones in, or he decided not to tell them because he wanted them to trust him
If Boba managed to trick mandalorians into thinking he is a accepted mandalorian ( I can't say it right but George Lucas said that Jango and boba are fake mandos)
With how aggressive Gar Saxon seems to be at pleasing his superiors for power, I feel like it wouldve been easy for him to convince the empire of his loyalty to the empire and promise to keep mandalore under control
Man while i do like your style of narration and the whole format of the video I do not agree at all with your plotholes. These episodes do not "completely" override the Ahsoka novel. I do not want to assume things but it seems you didn't read it as the whole Mandalore bit in the book was tiny in comparison to the rest. I usually like your work but I gotta have to dislike this one based on this. But other than that, good video, mate. Cheers!
One think I enjoy about this video is the understanding of what a plot hole is. I've seen a video from talking about "plot holes" in Captain America: Civil War. Which are actually self explanatory if people paid attention to the details.
I enjoyed your reaction to this episode. Here is something to think about. In Ep5 of the Ahsoka series, during Ahsoka's World Between Worlds vision at the Siege of Mandalore, Anakin tells Ahsoka "Within you will be all the knowledge I possess". Taking this into account, Ahsoka knew the force power of psychometry, an ability taught to her by Anakin. Now, when Vader finds Ahsoka's saber at the crash site of the Tribunal, he would no doubt have been able to see everything that happened there in vivid detail. He knew that she survived, and that she had left the saber for him to find as a symbol of her turning the page and leaving the past behind. Such a gut wrenching and emotional episode. I miss Clone Wars; the finale was epic.
“I didn’t betray my Jedi...”
That’s actually true because Ahsoka was NOT a Jedi at the time, ANAKIN was his Jedi general. He never betrayed Anakin. So what he said is true... from a certain point of view.
He also fought as hard as he could to not execute Ashoka
Jon Johnson Exactly, even to the point of crying.
@@de4thstroke32 and I'm still convinced in that first instance when he said he'd do it to get the other two clones to stand down, I think he shot at the clones.
Jon Johnson I think that was his initial intent but he shot at her by accident because his chip took full effect.
exactly
I was so annoyed when they cut this insult from the Ahsoka book. Maul mocks Ahsoka, saying that she isn’t a real Jedi. Ahsoka responds by saying, “‘It’ll be a fair fight then,’ she retorted, looking him up and down. ‘You’re only half a Sith.”’
I could swear she totally said that in the show
Damnn
@@DrPinkieDie she did and its awesome
@@mcrhombas3743 I came in just to say this.
@@DrPinkieDie Ventress said that in the show
I love how everyone makes a big deal about Vader's eyes in the finale, but I can't even see them lol
True
I thought that was just a stylistic choice to make the glass of the mask’s eyeholes an opaque red, but now I can see the eyes.
I could see them but no way to tell what color they are
@@aurorathekitty7854 I can see that they r blue. Wierd
Same
The question season 7 doesn’t answer is what about the droid attack on the Wookiees
He’s right, it’s a system we cannot afford to lose. (A year late, but still.)
@@xenokat0443 Holy shit those Wookiees waited a year for an answer
@@Robotnikers they’re patient they live for over 200 years or so
@@TMK411 Not when there's a droid attack on them.
@@moscanaveia Speaking of droids, how are those Wookies going?
Siths can change their eye color. You see this in revenge of the sith with Palpatine and Anakin. Anakin's eyes are yellow after he killed the separatists but later are back to blue when he talks to padme and then back to yellow again when he screams I hate you to obiwan. Same thing with Palpatine. They were blue before but become yellow after killing windu.
That's true, although it'd make sense if Vader's eyes are always yellow after he got his armour. I think a canon comic may contradict this, but idk
I believe the eye color is really dependent on how much they are channeling the darkside at the moment. Palpatine went full yellow eyes when he started the lightning in full darkside power. Same with Anakin with the separatists
Read Dark Disciple. It tells you all about Sith eyes and how they work. The eyes come and go periodically- Quinlan Vos' eyes change colors multiple times in the book even while he is still aligned with the Dark Side.
It can also be Because of the power “face mask” that sidious uses whilst still in fromt of windu.
So if you join the Sith you get some sweet cosmetic abilities.
For the star destroyer one, rex ordered all escape pods and means of escape destroyed to stop Ahsoka from leaving,
YES! This was literally said in the episode and I don't get how people can be so dense about it. So much for the "plothole"
Yup, came here to point this out too. He does specifically say to scuttle all means of transport. Really that should have meant the shop Mail took off with should have been destroyed too so one hole closes and another opens it seems.
@@JamesKellyWickerman123 I mean not really... Consider the fact that Ahsoka set Maul free to wreak havoc as well as the fact that she 'captured' their commander. Pretty sure that would alter their priorities a touch. It's still convenient that there was a shuttle left, yes, but Star Wars has ALWAYS been a story of conveniences so it's not much of a stretch.
Well it was sent by sideous he knew maul got captured and thought the clones would kill him during order 66 he didn’t think anyone would let maul out so the shuttles probably weren’t sent which Ik is a big if but it’s a possibility
Also that shuttle that was there was most likely the shuttle that brought maul, ahsoka and Rex aboard
Actually the Rex one isn’t a plot hole. He says he didn’t betray his Jedi, yes he shot at her, but he had no control over it. BUT he gave Ashoka a clue what to do by telling her “Fives”. He had faith in her living and finding that message.
I don't know, he does say "Wolffe, Gregor and I removed our chips rather than betray our Jedi. We all had a choice," while the tragedy of The Clone Wars is that the clones really didn't have a choice. Ahsoka had to knock Rex unconscious in order to remove his chip. Just my opinion, I find that plot hole a little annoying
@@conorb7094 In the end, they did have a choice. They were given that choice after Order 66 was issued.
Rex especially made the choice to fight the programming and not just stand by his brothers.
Ahsoka isn't a Jedi, Anakin is so technically he didn't lie. Also Anakin was his Jedi general not Ahsoka
@@lqll7965 From a certain point of view, this is very true.
Nah I think it’s cuz originally before the clone wars got canceled Rex was gonna remove his chip before order 66
People be making out Vader’s eye colours and heck even his pupils while all I see is... red😐
Ikr 😂😂😂
Smash3r645 I can’t even see them 😂😂
But you can see his eyes. This is something that hasn't happened with his helmet before. I can barely see the eyes but no color lol
Aidan although not intentional in a new hope you can see his eyes in one scene, an accident for sure but we’ve seen his eyes before
@@trayphillips2034 which scene? Do you have a time stamp?
I feel like Dave Filoni is the only one who's doing Canon stuff, that's what I want to see
The Mandalorian is pretty good too.
Sorow Fame which is written by Dave Filoni :’j
@@youri7229 a few episodes are but not all of them.
@@SorowFame Jon favreau is also goated 🙏
Unfortunately for the comic and novel writers he’s not.
Vader is in season 3 of the clone wars when the brother showed him his future
He was also in Rebels, so there was a blueprint. Just sayin.
How is that a plot hole?
It not he just said that season 7 is the first time he appeared
You're talking about when they visited the planet Mortis? Only Vaders face was shown but they could still play with the rest of vadars design
@@o.gplays7849 yeah it was just the face
I feel like Rex means it when he says that he didn't betray his Jedi. Out of anyone who received the order, he fought it as hard as he could, even telling Ahsoka what to look for before succumbing to his programming. ("Fives")
Some people seem to think that just because Ahsoka left the order she was not HIS Jedi, but I find that untrue. She was just as much a part of the 501st to them then as before she left. It's why they still refer to her as commander despite having no true authoritative rank. She spent years fighting by their side, being just as much a brother in their ranks as any member.
Granted it's subject to interpretation, but that's how I perceived it.
Scott Brown “...from my point of view the Jedi are evil.”
Same, he even gives Ahsoka some precious time by stopping the clones behind her. Without Rex they would have shot her in the back immediately
@@E1Gringo This guy gets it ")>
soooo "from a certain point of view"
It could have meant that he didn't betray his Jedi "his Jedi being skywalker"
If the Venator was sent from Coruscant to transport Maul and Ahsoka, along with the Shock Troopers, it'd make sense if Palpatine would've wanted to minimize Ahsoka's chances of survival by sending an under equipped cruiser...
That's what I was thinking, that does leave a problem with the shuttle being there. I could only see it as Palpatine either was giving maul an out or he wanted to see the escapees fight over it. Not even an escape for the troops was necessary, we either the ship gets back to coruscant or everyone dies.
501st resources we're split up. Maybe Ahsoka was only able to get a limited amount of vehicles from Anakin.
@@genesisrhap6719 not really, I mean, they had to reach the ship somehow, right? So perhaps a single shuttle was plausible...
@@undisclosed_branding9714 That's also very likely, I mean, the Battle of Coruscant was massive, they'd have needed all the ships they could muster.
I was thinking and I agree with that, simply because of the presence of the shock troopers, Palpatine’s personal clone troopers were there, Palpatine had to be involved with the cruiser and knowing order 66 was coming make sure the cruiser force wielders were dead, as Jesse said they were under special orders to execute Ashoka and Maul by Palpatine
Want to know how Wolff and Gregor removed
their chips
Suchagug and how gregor survived
Phantomkillerx5 facts
im pretty sure gregor got his chip removed by the guy who employed him in clone wars
maybe we'll get a small comic series or something
Pit Droid no he still had his chip that we do know
Rex also referred to himself as Captain after the Clone Wars because he didn’t like being the rank of commander. He felt that spot was reserved for Ashoka. As mentioned when Ashoka is shown the soldiers with the orange painted helmets. He calls her commander, she says he doesn’t have to call her commander, and then responds, “Ok...Commander”
“I believe we can trust Rex”
Yoda: “NO!”
Me: dying and rewatching that part 5 times
Rex probably believes that he didn’t betray his Jedi/Asoka because he didn’t kill her. Or Asoka isn’t a Jedi, and when he said that line, he was talking about Anakin as his Jedi. Since he was no where near Anakin at the time, he couldn’t have betrayed his Jedi.
Josh Castic Show not to mention he told her to find Fives. He gave her a fighting chance.
Ahsoka isn’t his Jedi though it’s Anakin
Stubbzy, I was going edit and add that part, but I decided not, too.
Colin Miyamoto, I know. I was going to edit my comment for that purpose, but I decided not to. However, I proposed do that now.
Or that’s how he coups with what he did. He just simply denies that he tried to kill Ahsoka.
I actually like the idea that Vader's eyes turned back blue, but only very briefly. Since in my mind he's only relatively recently become Darth Vader seeing the lightsaber of his former Padawan and friend with the crystal he put in it himself amongst the makeshift graves of his own legion was able to make the Anakin side of him come to the surface but only for a moment before the anger and hatred of Vader fought back and took right back over. Then by the time Rebels comes around the Vader side of him has pushed Anakin so far down in his minf, that anger and pain has built up inside him for so long that then the only thing that could bring him back and bring him back for more than just a few fleeting moments was his son. I honestly prefer that and think that doesn't discredit what Dave said at all as he was talking about that during the Rebels timeline. Just my head canon though.
@Morgan Bragg That's the thing, like Dave said Ahsoka couldn't turn him back at all. And I know his eyes stayed yellow. But the way he retracted his lightsaber when he seen her which he never does, the way he tried to barter instead of just slaughtering her like he had to so many Jedi already, the way he looked at her and his voice when he said "Ahsoka..." It's almost like Vader was fighting to keep Anakin Skywalker locked away. I don't think she turned him back there, but I feel like she did cause an internal struggle within him briefly in Rebels before he snapped back into Sith Lord mode.
@@KevynKing I've heard theories that Vader may have wanted to turn Ahsoka into an inquisitor considering she was no longer a Jedi and had a right to resent them and also the vision of older Ahsoka telling Ahsoka Anakin sowed some darkness into Ahsoka, etc
@@yrsruby5396 I've heard that theory as well. And I like it. I think it adds to what I think which is that subconsciously he was trying to do everything he could so he wouldn't have to kill Ahsoka. He bargained, tried to have her join him, etc.
In my headcanon, he didn't fully become Vader until that moment we see in the finale.
He lost almost everything and had only one thing left... he probably held onto hope that Ahsoka and Rex were alive and it kept a small peice of Anakin alive too.
When he found that wreckage and "learned" that his best friend, little sister, companion in war and life, and someone who always had his back and believed in him no matter what... someone who, in his mind, might still be able to save him from this living nightmare, who came to his aid dozens of times and kept him grounded in a way Obi Wan never could; when he realized she was gone forever....
That is when Anakin died. He felt then (in his mind) that the Jedi order betrayed him and weren't what he believed in and dedicated his life to, his brother and mentor betrayed him and turned his love against him and caused her death by his own hands! His body and mind have been broken and twisted and he knows it, and he is looking for something... anything to hold onto. Some bit of solid ground, something to ground him to who he is. His *identity* was Anakin Skywalker, Chosen One, *JEDI Knight* and Lover of Padme. Those things where who he was, he had no real personality of his own.
Except one small part. The part he loved about himself, the part that he respected most about himself and showed him what kind of man he was truly capable of being. He wasn't good at being a Jedi, too many rules and bureaucracy. He wasn't good at being a lover or husband, he was creepy and aggressive and never learned a healthy way of expressing love. He was a bad student because he had a chosen one complex and wasn't one for following orders.. so what was that part?
Being a teacher. Being a role model. Being a big brother. He was good at that, great! He had to be the best version of himself to share it with someone he grew to love and care about so she could be her best self too! Ahsoka made him better, she challenged him and showed him the error of his ways many times. Often she would copy his reckless behavior and get in trouble and he would learn from her mistakes as well, because they were his mistakes too.
Ahsoka was the healthiest and most important of Anakins relationships and he knew it. She taught him a healthy way to love and be loved, a healthy way to take criticism and deal it out, she taught him the importance of questioning things and looking for a way to do the right thing. (arguably this backfired.) Ahsoka gave him perspective whenever he started to lose it and always kept him planted on the right side. Where he felt judgment and criticism from Obi and the council, he felt concern and respect from Ahsoka. He felt used and manipulated by the Jedi, by the Senate, By Palpatine, and even Padme.. Ahsoka never made him feel that way. He could honestly be himself around her, and it taught him who he was, he was starting to learn who Anakin Skywalker really was, and he immediately started losing it without her. (Trench..)
Basically Ahsoka was very much his last and most important lifeline and when she "died" so did Anakin. Skyguy was no more.
That was a lot, but I just wanted to get it out of my head and put it somewhere lol sorry to dump my brain on your shoes. My bad.
Also, I really like Ahsoka. Shes my favorite SW character.
@@DanteYewToob That's a very interesting way to look at it, and was very well written. I like it.
“I didn’t betray my Jedi” could be interpreted as him saying it wasn’t him willfully attempting to kill Ahsoka, but rather him being forced to
Makes sense
Or Rex’s Jedi General was always Anakin. Like Obi-Wan’s was Commander Cody’s, etc.
Ahsoka wasn't even a jedi, nevermind his jedi.
@@commander8625 are Padawans not Jedi?
@@b3nzayizkoolyo did I say that? No. I said ahsoka wasn't a jedi during order 66. Rex even says that in the clone wars.
Am I the only one who can’t see Anakin’s eyes through the mask?
No, I can’t see a thing lol
Unoriginal 156 nope I see them too.
lol no I just pretend to see them
Rafael Enriquez you can also see his ruined flesh right beneath his eye
When you look really close you can see them and you can tell they are sith eyes
10:00: They explain the eyes theory.
Me: ...I can’t see sheet.
It's hard to see but it is there
Aight, guess I'm blind
I can't see sheev
once you see it, it’s hard to unsee
@@dadtaro9202 ...I saw them... wow
for the one where Rex says he didn’t betray his jedi, it probably wasn’t the right time and place to explain the full story of “well i did betray my jedi at first, but then she knocked me out and removed my inhibitor chip so i would stop trying to kill her and help her escape.” being that Kanan was very suspicious of them already for good reason
She wasn't his Jedi, she was a civilian and also his Jedi was millions of miles away on corasaunt
@Aklato master Windu would agree with you
I've always had the thought that, while Ahsoka could never fully bring Anakin back, she could for just a split second, and I think that's shown both in her confrontation with Vader and in the last CW scene.
The entire Ahsoka novel is definitely not decanonized - there are a few pages of flashbacks that talk about the siege of Mandalore and how both Ahsoka and Rex escaped order 66, however the rest of the novel focuses more on Ahsoka a year later and is definitely still worth a read after the finale of Clone Wars!
I just recently read the novel and I really liked it, it was kinda a boomer for me when watching Ahsoka duel with Maul and realizing it was different from the one in the book.
I actually listened to the audible version during my commute. Listening to Ashley Eckstein narrate really added to the experience. One of my favorite post Legends novels.
@@BeatDrama in my opinion I think the duel in the show was better than the book, but I loved the book on the whole
@@CWxHD the duel in the show is much more cinematic
@@erin_3569 I absolutely agree
I want another "season" of the clone wars.... where it follows Vader and his struggle to appeal to Sidious.
I want a remake of the revenge of the sith in a clone wars style with more believable Anakin's final steps to the dark side...
Well the Bad Batch show seems like it'll be the Clone Wars season 8, so maybe we will
I don’t, I want them to Finnish the other like 20 episodes they were working on. I’d also like to see the Maul Son of Dathomir comics animated, as they were supposed to be episodes. If we were to follow Vader it wouldn’t be the “Clone Wars”.
The Marvel Darth Vader comics by Charles Soule follow Vader immediately after Revenge of the Sith so you can look at those for this
Darth vader dark lord of the sith comic run is pretty cool in that aspect
12:47 The only thing I can think of that explains the lack of ships on board the Venator is that the ship was loaded mainly with LAAT's and they left them behind to safeguard Mandalore since they didn't need to worry about any starfighter based interceptions on the gunships or the Venator itself that could safely approach it. It still doesn't explain why there wasn't at least an ETA Actis ii though
i think it has two possible answers, sidious send the ship with and empty hangar prediciting that order 66 was very near and did not want to give maul nor ahsoka a possibility to escape the clones. nor it may have been a contious desision from the jedi that they wanted to give maul next to no chance to escape the venator and psossibly hoped to set the hangar trap for maul in case he tried to leave with the only vessel on board of the venator. or try escape pods but then he was an eeasy target for the venator or the shuttle. but probably indeed the idea was to set it up for the finaly
@@dwaynecollignon2297 no the clones destroyed the ships
I find this to be logical. The Mandalore occupying force lost many ships during the invasion, so wherever this particular ship came from, it would make sense that they would offload as many ships as they safely could prior to their return to Curuscant, while also taking on extra damaged ships to take back for repair. They still would have likely kept some for their own defense and safety, but it also makes sense that the clones would have destroyed them along with the escape pods. So I believe there would have been fewer ships on board that would have needed destroyed. Why they would have destroyed all ships except 1 shuttle? Not sure. Maybe as bait, but that still seems risky and irresponsible, so that seems the bigger plot hole.
Rex being promoted to Commander isn’t technically a plot hole - because he wasn’t made Commander of the whole 501st legion. He was only temporarily put in charge of the 332nd subdivision, and in order to fill the void that it left in the chain of command, Vaughn substituted for Rex as Captain. Similarily, Appo was then also elevated to the rank of Commander, despite the fact that he only held the title of Sergeant, so that he could lead the remainder of the 501st’s forces in the meantime. Hence why Rex never saw himself as a Commander, because his promotion was never permanent.
He was promoted to commander, then stripped of it for treason they said
Actually there were multiple commanders of the 501st such as Bow and Vill however Vill came after order 66 to replace Appo when he gets his head cut off in the comics but Bow was in the order 66 comics.
@@cyberman05 wasnt saying commander of 501st, just saying that he was a commander
@@cyberman05 Vill was so cool, I miss him.
I can only imagine if they had Rex serving under Anakin when they executed Order 66. That would of been a cool live action scene right there. A Clone Captain with duel pistols and a special armor design just walking side by side with Vader as they march into the temple, the 501st behind them.
Rex technically didn't betray HIS jedi since that was Anakin and technically Ashoka isn't a jedi but that getting VERY technically.
TheDarkLord he sorta gave her a chance. Most clones just shot the Jedi no warning.
Plus he didn't willingly betray the jedi
What he said was true. From a certain point of view
He did everything he could to give Ahsoka a fighting chance while he was being taken control of by telling her to look for Fives in his last moments of control. So, yes: he didn't betray her.
TheDarkLord He betrayed anakin BY REFUSING ORDER 66
Actually, the lack of ships on the Venator makes sense. It’s coming from Coruscant. This episode takes place a little while after the Battle on Coruscant, meaning this ship was probably used during said battle. With most of its recourses being used, they might not have had time (or felt the need) to resupply.
Ultrastrike17 thank you, that’s a reasonable explanation
Came here to post just this. The space battle over Coruscant was a shitshow; Obi Wan and Anakin's whole fighter escort got slaughtered and they, two of the best Jedi in the Order (including one of the best Star Pilots in the Galaxy) BARELY made it to Grievous' command ship. I bet that was the most small craft they could spare. Also, it's essentially a milkrun: Enter hyperspace, where you can't be tracked, from Coruscant, surrounded by dozens of friendly ships. Exist hyperspace over an allied world with a Venator already in orbit. Pick up passengers. Return via hyperspace, untraceable again. Arrive back to dozens of friendly ships.
They didn't need the fighter complement they usually did, and probably couldn't have gathered a normal complement if they had felt the need.
Ultrastrike17 the venator was not coming from coruscant, it was on mandalore from the beginning.
Volksc well in that case the presence of the red armoured Coruscant Defence Force clones is odd, but also easy enough to answer the lack of ships- wartime attrition plus losses & damaged craft in the battle of Mandalore
Volksc It had Coruscant guards on it. It either came from Coruscant, or they decided to bring the Coruscant guards with them for no reason
5 closed, 3 opened .
I see this as an absolute win.
For the venator plot hole, Rex ordered for all escape pods and most ships to be destroyed or locked down to keep Ahsoka from escaping
Everyone is talking about how Rex said I didn't betray my jedi and arguing about whether Ashoka counted as a jedi or more, was ever his true jedi, Anakin not being there etc. Has anyone considered he said that just to make Kanan trust him. What was he supposed to say, I kinda resisted but still fired at her. Sure that brings trust. The real story could come out once Rex, Kanan and Ashoka are together.
i think this is right, and also the fact that without the chip he has PTSD and probably wants to forget it.
@@lordaaron5198 Yes. So much happened on that day, it would be so hard to talk about in a 30 second window.
@@TheKat12364 right
It’s not really a argument in rebels she said she was no jedi so she probably wasn’t a Jedi since she left the order so Rex didn’t attack his Jedi General
Very good point🤣people act like lies aren’t a thing in the Star Wars universe
jesse demoting rex just before attempting to execute them actually made me laugh out loud
Max Perez
I think it’s because they will be killed in a lower rank they were
In humiliation
It would matter if Rex had family better pension form them etc.
@@Adam-jn7nc he's a fucking clone, not the family type
@@aklato7258 cough *Cut Lequane* cough
@@Adam-jn7nc It still matters as Clones were imprinted and schooled in militarised, basically enclosed, society. The ranks, the honor, the drill was basically their way of life. See, being demoted isnt a big deal if you are a civilian enlisted in a military and only THEN schooled to be obedient soldier. Clones were raised in a warrior culture, a bit ancient one even. In such cultures being demoted, or humiliated in such way as revoking your warrior status is a big deal. Look at history. Not so long ago (relatively speaking) entire wars were waged due to the fact that some knights or aristocrats were humiliated.
In such predicament, demoting Rex was actually a good way to show how, well, "alien" clone culture is.
For the Venator lacking shuttles and ships, I’d say it’s simple: they have MAUL.
Ship came from Courascant. Ship was most likely sent/influenced by Sideous. He had fighters and shuttles removed before the ship was sent since he doesn’t want Maul loose.
Then, when everything goes down, they have a single shuttle to deliver Maul’s holding device and that’s it.
Hopefully that helps :)
This is what I thought when I saw the episode. No way Palpatine wanted Maul to escape.
This makes the most sense to me. Another reason could be that all those ships were simply needed elsewhere and they kept a bare minimum on the Venator just in case, plus one shuttle because prisoner delivery.
And also I guess there's only one shuttle that can go to Hyperspace to escape. There's no interest to steal a LAAT to stay stuck on a random planet. That's also why they choose a Y-Wing which is capable to go to Hyperspace.
The way I viewed it was that Sidious knew Order 66 was gonna happen soon and that he wanted Ahsoka and Maul on board with no chance of escape when it happened
@@PureEvil616
Very good point. This was not a fully-equipped venator, but one designed for transporting a dangerous criminal and leftover forces from the battle.
12:55 I can answer that with one name.
Palpatine. He made it this way so that when the order was done and Ahsoka was alone on a ship with thousands of clones even if she somehow survived the sneak attack of order 66 the clones would go ALL OUT. Sabotaging any escape plans. Leaving only one ship for the top clones who where the most loyal and the most deadly.
Another HUGE plot hole: Padme tells Anakin she is pregnant after the battle of courscant, meanwhile she is shown to be pregnant while talking with anakin during the first episode of season 7
Maybe Anakin thought she had gotten fat lol
Maybe Anakin just didn’t notice for some reason?
anakin didn’t notice
The reason that the ship doesn't only has 1 shuttle is that the others were probably being used in the battle of Coruscant to transport troops.
They all probably got destroyed in the siege
@@dustinregister3490 They weren't in the Seige of Mandalore
Dave Harrenburg the dropships?
@@dustinregister3490 The Venator was at Coruscant while the Siege of Mandalore took place, the dropships were probably used there
I believe that sidious intentionally didn't supply the venator with gunships as they would be a easy escape for Ashoka, the one person that could have brought him back to the light.
I think it's really unfair to claim that the Ahsoka novel no longer counts, since the book isn't even about the Siege of Mandalore and more about what happens after all of that. Some details change here or there, but the ultimate point and story of the book isn't affected to any notable degree.
Maybe they knew Order 66 was coming and just purposefully left no escape for Ashoka, aside from the ship they came on. :shrug: I dunno.
Kross Rex did say that everything was to be locked down. Maybe the clones moved everything from immediate access so that there was less opportunity for escape. Doesn’t explain why the shuttle wouldn’t be moved as the order had been given to kill Maul so the need to transport him would have been irrelevant. Idk, I just like the republic shuttle design. I do like how you can see V-Wings in the maintenance hanger, I feel like they should have been used more instead of the Z-95’s for this season
@@-Flea I think Palpatine wanted to make sure that Maul had no way of escaping so that he couldn’t tell the Jedi about his plan and about Anakin. Thats why there were no ships
okay but props the animators and directors for making Mauls fighting stytle so similar to when he was in The Phantom Menace.
Same thing I noticed I also liked how you could see the subtle hints on Anakin and Obi in Ahsoka a stance here or an attack there that looked like the duel of fates they did well with everyones fighting style I feel.
I think the eyes were blue, but this could’ve been from his regret and the fact that he saw the Morai bird.
Am I the only person who can’t even see Vader’s eyes in that shot?
The left eye is very clear to me.
In the 3rd try i see it
With the Venator lacking its vehicle complement I believe this is explainable. They did just return from the Siege of Mandalore. It's possible that the Venator deployed all of its vehicles and now after a mission, they're undergoing regular maintenance before being put back in service. Just because Rex says "They're all under maintenance" doesn't necessarily mean that they're all not flyable. I'm sure it was just a matter of not wanting to take a risk and accidentally take a ship that was, for example, leaking fuel.
By the way don’t know if you know, but people have said in the comments that Rex put out an order for all escape pods to be destroyed and hanger to be monitored
gunships probably aren't hyperdrive capable, meaning they'd want a specific shuttle. But I'd have to do some research to be sure. I think the whole thing makes sense.
Also, why would they send a spaceship with many military ships to mandalore. Like why would they send gunships to transfer some clones and maul back to coruscant. That is not a Plothole at all.
Lord Caelum agreed they’re not gonna waste gunships and tanks when especially at this time of the clone wars the GAR was spread across the outer rim.
Yep, also, there were probably more ships but those ships were not still in the hanger...... They probably went down on those moving floors and were stored in an not easily accessible part of the ship.
Sure they are, how else could they get through half of the Galaxy some times
Stanley Lueg I’m talking LAAT/i’s or LAAT/c’s. I did a little research, according to
wookieepedia’s page on them their max capable speed is 620 kph. That figure is from the Ultimate Star Wars reference book written by Ryder Windham. The wiki page does mention modified LAAT’s that can handle the vacuum of space and have artificial gravity, but I couldn’t find anything about them having a hyperdrive. It’s possible, but I think unlikely.
You're very well-spoken and entertaining to listen to. I enjoy the amount of detail you put into each point and, of course, the KotOR music behind them.
It might be that Ahsoka has a faint memory. It didn't actually have to be what happened, but what she remembered of it. Maybe the tragedy of what happened, clouded her memory of how it happened.
Ptsd memories are often different, and can be clouded by nightmares too
The closed plothole about the Madalorians acknowledging their past was amazing in my opinion. In the opening scene of "Shattered," Bo Katan and Asoka talk about how Mandalore needs a different kind of leader, while they look at the "Peace Park" that was bombed in "The Duchess of Mandalore" episode in the Clone Wars
This bombing was the first event we see on Mandalore in Star Wars Canon and is seen as the start of the militant era of Death Watch. Now the monument is a smoldering reminder of Duchess Satine and the collapse of the New Mandalorian peace, showing what they were trying to avoid.
9:11 it was probably the reflection of the blue lightsaber he was holding but whatever,
This is what am thinking about the whole time people talk about his eyes. He's holding a glowing blue lightsaber.
Honestly I would say Rex didn’t betray his Jedi since he both fought the chip and did his best to help her remove it.
Honestly, I can barely make out his left eye. Much less the color of it or the shape of his pupils.
I think the reason there wasn’t many gun ships in the hanger is that it could have been a precaution in case maul escaped the prison case and so there would be less points of escape to cover for the clones
I’m confused though, at the end of clone wars Rex and Ahsoka leave pretending to be dead so why did Rex say he didn’t bother to report some bases to the empire. If Rex and Ahsoka left after the Venator crashed and ‘betraying’ the republic why did he need to report to the empire
And how did they even know he was alive. Surely he would’ve been killed for helping Ahsoka escape
Me 1. Reason might be that he reported them to the republic that later on became the empire or 2. He went back to the empire inorder to try to convert more of his brothers (Gregor and wolf) so to look not so suspicious he retired from the military and gave any info he knew to an officer
He might have returned to serve the Empire without his chip to see if the Order was worth serving.
How would the empire know he helped Ahsoka escape? Everyone who could have reported that information to the Empire died in that crash. Rex and Ahsoka were the only two who survived it. We do not currently know where Rex went or what he told to whom after escaping the crash.
I think the empire are probably aware that he is a clone but don't know which one...... The clone 'Rex' 'died' but he probably assumed another ct number.
kieron halliday the problem with that though is that in rebels, when Rex is captured and taken to the bridge on a star destroyer, the admiral/officer in charge identified him by his number and name.
For the final plot point, it could be that Sidious directly sent the shuttle and by having knowledge that it would soon be the time to commence order 66, he made sure Ahsoka and Maul couldn't escape. It also could have been a precaution to make sure Maul can't escape the ship.
I always saw Rex's "I didn't betray my Jedi" line as referencing Anakin, since he's the Jedi Rex served and Ahsoka wasn't even a Jedi anymore by the time of Order 66, so either way considering her to be Rex's Jedi doesn't fit
Well said. I also take it as, by resisting his programming and ultimately helping Ahsoka escape, it's fair to say he didn't betray her either.
People seem to forget that the shot of Vader is after he learned the existence of Luke. What you see in that shot is the beginning of the conflict in Vader.
How? Rebels, with the exception of the epilogue in the finale, takes place entirely before the Battle of Yavin. At this point, Vader thinks the children of Anakin Skywalker died with Padmé.
For the one ship problem: You could say that maybe since the REALLY didn't want mall to escape they only had one transport ship, so if he were to escape they could all just protect the ship and he would have no way out. Idk I just think it might make sense of that was the case
Rex’s Jedi was Anakin. Ahsoka was no longer a Jedi. So he didn’t betray his Jedi.
He betrayed his citizen
I wondered why the shuttle was literally the ONLY craft in that massive hangar. As far as any differentiation between The Ahsoka book and this arc, I definitely prefer this version. The book was good and did not need improvement, but the way I interpret is that Filoni had the story thought through prior and has earned the right to flesh it out as he sees fit regardless of prior stories. To me, Disney made the Legends framework to be one that can be interpretive. We could take this as one clone's or mandalorian's telling of the events (maybe even Saxon's). Rex does have some explaining to do considering his friendliness with the Empire. It could be that it was the only way to reach his fellow clones who were aware of Order 66. I wish it would have explained their situation but there have been theories that we may get stray episodes or answers from comics.
I had the impression that the shuttle with the Guard came from Courscant itself rather than the Venator. It has been mentioned in the arc that the Republic was leaving a clone garrison on Mandalor for the transitionary period. It wouldn’t be too far fetched to believe that most LAATs and operational fighters from the one Venator would be left to support what at that point was a planet wide operation realistically. It also wouldn’t be unreasonable to believe that said shuttle would hitch a ride back on the Venator back with Maul for added security. We never see any large group of Courscant Guard. Only those few troopers to facilitate the transfer. There’s no reason to believe there was a large contingent of CG.
Also, that Venator was sent from Anakin’s fleet with his troopers onboard, that we see in the episodes. We also know that it was not a full attack force as Anakin split is own forces while leaving to a large scale and, realistically, far more important battle.
There’s little reason to believe that each Venator under Skywaker and Kenobi’s fleet would be fully stocked with both troops and various vehicles to begin with as from what we see in TCW and have gotten from ROTS the Outer Rim Sieges have been ongoing and we saw that they had just came from at least one large battle that did not seem to be going well and would be unreasonable to assume they sustained no losses.
With those two thoughts in mind it’s not at all far fetched to believe that most of the fighters and support ships would have been moved to the vessels headed to a larger, more important battle and that most likely the single Venator going to Mandalore, which was not even an approved mission, did not have anything close to a full compliment. I see no plot hole here at all.
I think that Vader showing remorse when picking up Ahsoka's Lightsaber can be linked up to when he got his first sith Lightsaber. When Vader acquired his first lightsaber, he acquired it from a jedi. When he picked it up he gained a vision of what could've been if he had listened to Obi-wan's pleas on Mustafar. When he picked up Ahsoka's lighsaber he gained a vision of what could've been with Ahsoka if he had never fallen to the dark side.
For the start destroyer one. Palatine knew Ashoka and maul would be on board when he ordered 66. He could've sent a stripped cruiser to try and ensure they didn't escape. Maul was a threat or became some kind of pawn for palp. And he wanted all Jedi and potential opponents destroyed and Ashoka fits that.
Personally I always saw the scene with Vader at the end of the last episode to be the last moments of Anakin. In episode 3 he loses everything and because of that becomes Vader but because of clone wars we know Ashoka and Rex are still out there so he didn't lose everything. However in this moment he understands he has also lost them and completely destroys what was left of Anakin Skywalker fully becoming Vader.
A lore explanation of why Rex addresses himself as Captain is that all those under his command as Commander are now deceased. Meaning everyone else (Gregor and Wolfe) would not have been aware of his promotion shortly before Order 66
the lack of gunships and fighters in the hangar bay could be explained, if they were left together with a bunch of clones as an occupation force on Mandalore
I thought the lack of gunship and fighters were destroyed during the start siege of mandalor, also most of the fighters and gunship went to battle of coruscant with Kenobi and Skywalker. For no reason I'll just put this one out there, that's why Ahsoka asked for reinforcement during the siege of mandalore.
Yeah, it's just him trying to find everything he can grab his hands on to proclaim there are serious plot holes.
In a time of war, right after a major battle... how dare the hangars be empty!
As he said: "it's incredibly stupid" after all...
These kind of videos of "fans" nitpicking every inconsequential tidbits...
5 answered - 3 new holes = 2 less plot holes opened
I see this as an absolute win
The lack of gunships in the venator from courasant shows just how cautious and careful the Republic was against Maul in the event that he breaks out the clones could jettison the escape pods and blow up or send away the ship that would take maul to his original destination
They also would've left the gunships on Mandalore as part of their security occupation.
@@Mr12Relic some of the gunships would be tacticaly better and remember during the end when the venetor from corasaunt arrived they would've had gunships
I never betrayed my Jedi- Ahsoka wasn’t a Jedi she was a citizen
Rex: "I didn't betray my Jedi." You think he's referring to Anakin? Since he's the General of the 501st?
Yep I'm pretty sure he did. Rex was under General Skywalker for the entire war, until Anakin met Ahsoka
The few seconds Rex gave to Ahsoka and him mentioning fives is enough for me that he didn’t betray her. All of the other clones were ready to instantly gun any force user down but Rex fought it just long enough to save her and that’s what matters in the end. The siege of mandalore arc my goodness, best Star Wars ever written???
“For what it’s worth, I believe we can trust Rex.”
*_”N O”_*
In Rebels, Maul had a dark lightsaber as a trophy from Mandalore, and in the Clone Wars he fled without him
Dark Disciple tells us that the Darksaber was given back to him. But he doesn't use it in the fight in Season 7, telling us that he hid it offworld
I think that last plot hole is intentional. Think about it, palpatine would have known that the 501 was split cause he contacted Rex directly. He also knew that there was maul and Ashoka on that ship, so having that new carrier come with nothing would ensure that neither would escape. I think there was one ship in because of the shuttle they used to carry maul to the carrier.
For "I've never betrayed my Jedi," you could take it as it wasn't Rex's fault for trying to kill Ahsoka. It was a chip forcing him to. He had no control. Then right when he was free from that control he never really betrayed her, but eh that's how I'm gonna accept it so it's not a plot hole.
Rex says "I didn't betray my fellow Jedi" because he didn't intentionally do so.
Rex ordered all forms of escape to be destroyed or disabled, which explains the abundance of ships including gunships in the maintenance area beneath the main hangar.
#4 at 5:49 I wouldn't say is a plot hole, more likely a minor twist on the truth to either gain kanan's trust or because Rex had been kicking himself for dot doing what he said for so long he believed it.he also really didn't betray ashoka, due to the chip.
I mean, the Rex one could be interpreted differently too. When Rex says "I didn't betray my Jedi" maybe he only considers betrayal if you carry it out to completion? Ahsoka forgives Rex right then and there when he wakes up in the Medbay and Rex learns it wasn't him but the chip.
I know one big flaw with the Order 66 episodes Ahsoka ain't a Jedi, she’s a civilian advisor that happened to be a former Jedi...
Also I thought the reason the Canon and Legends label and the creation of the Storygroup was to prevent retcons in their new materials...
I'll edit this once I'm done with this video... Probably...
yeah but studious would've directly ordered them to kill her cause she might've been able to turn anikan back
rex said she had been specifically targeted in order 66
Did you miss the entire part of the episode where Rex tried this very argument (that Ahsoka was not a Jedi) with the other clones? They weren't having it, saying she was a Jedi and/or listed specifically in the order.
In the clones eyes, once a Jedi always a Jedi,
Dar-Nak Kallig in the comic series of DARTH Vader it is stated that clones had a doctrine similar to “once a Jedi always a Jedi” this is when they use the clones against the inquisitors so there is an explanation
I will hold a place for the clone wars deep in my heart, and another for every clone that lost their life during the clone wars
11:20 now i'm just imagining vader having different helmets he puts on to express him mood that day
Im glad vader's eyes didn't turn back to blue when fighting ashoka.
Perhaps they retcon the novel because not everyone reads. Ahsoka wasn't Rex's Jedi, nor was she even a Jedi, and Kanan doesn't need to know about his participation in order 66
I noticed Vader had eyebrows in Rebels. They burn off in Revenge of the Sith, grow back before Rebels and they are gone again in Return of the Jedi (canonically speaking of course, since in the original 1983 release he had eyebrows).
Filoni said Anakin only had his eyebrows back just to show his emotions in the moment to the audience. Canonically, I’m sure they’re off.
I think they retconned it so that they didn't write themselves into a corner. They were working with 12 episodes, and having 8 of them already being told before wouldn't really be that great.
Plus almost nothing existed for the original episodes. They were intended to be the final 4 episodes of Season 8, and they had barely begun work on Season 7, so all that existed for it were a few notes and drawings, whereas something like Dark Discple had a completed script.
Plot hole 1: So the novel is not Canon. 2 He resisted the chip and told Ashoka about 5s; What Rex said is true from a certain point of view. 3 any gunships would be under repair after the siege and in the garage not the bay hence they were shooting straight for Corrosant because of their already split Legion and dimished mechanised warfare ability
Quickly, for your 2nd last point, on that there are few ships in the Venatar class, they may have not equipped that ship with ships as many other jedi who were not just using hyper space may have needed extra support and they decided to take risk.
No one gonna mention that in Rebels, Vader’s face looks WAY too much like Anakin’s despite his entire body being lit on fire on Mustafar?
When you think about it, Rex _didn't_ betray his Jedi--from a certain point of view.
In the last seconds of him struggling to resist the chip, he tells Ahsoka vital information that allows her to find out what is going on. He tells her to find Fives. And then he loses control.
He really _didn't_ betray his Jedi. He did all he could.
Actually, I think the venator was purposely being held empty (perhaps by palpatine) cuz they knew what was about to happen so ashoka and maul wouldnt have had an easy chance to escape giving the clones an easier chance to kill them
How can it decanonize the whole Ahsoka book when it only retcons the introduction and a middle interlude. These are just small details that don't really effect the overall story. This is just a stupid suggestion
The last plot hole makes sense. They’ve just come back from fighting on mandalore so I’m guessing a lot of the gunships and stuff got destroyed. Also they’re hauling back maul. Maybe they have one shuttle for as many of the clones as possible if an event such as maul escaping and bringing the ship out of lightspeed occurs.
I just noticed the KOTOR music towards the end!! Love it!
My question is, why did he kill me!
We’ll never no youngling
Plot hole 1. Johnston's thoughts on the flashbacks being decanonized: ekjohnston.tumblr.com/post/616936802470772736/so-uh-you-dont-to-have-to-answer-but-are It's 1/70th of the book, and the rest of it is canon. She actually finds it very frustrating that people say the entire novel has been decanonized. Also that the soul of the story has remained the same, in her words. Lucas did a lot of things like this when he ran TCW (like with the Zygerria arc), and it's unlikely to happen in the future, since two people aren't going to be adapting the same concept. Canon isn't falling apart. It's similar to the small contradictions between the movies, novelizations, junior novelizations, and comic adaptations. And frankly, other than Ahsoka saying "you're only half a Sith" the story presented in the arc is better. Although I think that the lightsaber color change is not just stupid, but also contradictory to more than just the Ahsoka novel. And they should have both been left on Ahsoka's "grave", but the armor being left behind honestly goes either way for both story quality and continuity. The Ahsoka novel gives no indication about why she told Bail that her code name should be Fulcrum. The chapter is from Ahsoka's POV, but an absence of thoughts being revealed to us isn't a sign that they're not there. POV characters in books think about their secret plans without telling the reader and not going full unreliable narrator. So she totally could have decided to use Fulcrum as a code name because is was Saw's frequency for talking with the Republic. It would now be free, but give her a connection with Saw's partisans.
Plot hole 2: A lot of other commenters have pointed out Rex is saying that he never betrayed his Jedi through a combination of lying and technicalities. This just makes me more interested in the situation where Kix was kidnapped by the Separatists Because before it was kind of implied that Kix was the one who preformed the procedure, and Palpatine wanted Dooku to question him to find out who else he had told.
On the eye color thing: It doesn't matter if Ahsoka had the full potentional to bring Anakin back. We already know that it switched during his early days as Darth Vader. In Darth Vader #7 (2017), Vader tries to bleed his lightsaber crystal. He has a vision that's basically "it isn't too late, you can change your path" and the last panel before the vision begins features him with blue eyes. Like they make a point to throw him across the cave so the lense can brake. When he rejects this future, the eyes turn red again. So if Vader's eyes were blue at Ahsoka's "grave", it was because seeing it caused him to question the path he was on, but only for a moment. And by the time of Twilight of the Apprentice, he was much more confident in his role as Darth Vader that such a thing couldn't happen. Heck, the epilogue could take place before the "vader gets his lightsaber arc".
Plot hole 3: It came from Coruscant, that's your explanation. It isn't fully equipped because the war has been raging on and isn't high on the resupply list because it isn't heading to the front lines. Perhaps it even lost ships in the Battle of Coruscant
Yeah the "plot holes" are kinda weak especially because I don't really care about what happened in rebels 🤣
Plot hole 3 - Always thought that that area was more of the 'flight deck' and would be void of aircraft except when missions are being readied.
I would like to know where Anakin scar on his eyes went?? Did it just disappear when he became Vader?
In Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader, it's said that Vader had to be cleansed of necrotic skin and that synthetic skin was given to him afterwards. This novel is considered "Legends" now, but it's still a valid explanation.
I think he lost it when he was so badly burned on Mustfar
i mean he was pretty badly burned back on mustafar, so his scar prolly isn't visible because 100% of his skin is completely scarred
I think the one of the venator not having any ships in the hangar makes sense because it wasn't sent for a mission, it wasn't supposed to go into any battles, it was just to pick them up and bring them right back, so it wouldn't need any extra ships, and the one of Rex saying he didn't betray his Jedi could have easily been him withholding parts of the story, as everyone tells a story slightly differently and maybe he either didn't remember that part because of the trance it puts clones in, or he decided not to tell them because he wanted them to trust him
I love how all the Star Wars UA-camrs say “go check out this guy for more info on the topic” this community is great.
Pacifism died with Satine. Now we just need Boba to claim the title of Mandalore.
Or Din Djarin or Baby Yoda
If Boba managed to trick mandalorians into thinking he is a accepted mandalorian ( I can't say it right but George Lucas said that Jango and boba are fake mandos)
@@hansenyan6217 As Maul shows with Mandos, might makes right. In the EU Boba does become Mandalore, so it would be cool to see.
Was it ever explained how Gar Saxon turned from a Republic/Mandalorian prisoner into the governor?
You said it yourself. He was a Republic/Mandalorian prisoner. The Republic became the Empire and release him. He eventually became the governor.
With how aggressive Gar Saxon seems to be at pleasing his superiors for power, I feel like it wouldve been easy for him to convince the empire of his loyalty to the empire and promise to keep mandalore under control
Which answered question was the most satisfying? And which plothole was the most frustrating?
Pothole you mean plothole
*plothole
Man while i do like your style of narration and the whole format of the video I do not agree at all with your plotholes. These episodes do not "completely" override the Ahsoka novel. I do not want to assume things but it seems you didn't read it as the whole Mandalore bit in the book was tiny in comparison to the rest. I usually like your work but I gotta have to dislike this one based on this. But other than that, good video, mate. Cheers!
One think I enjoy about this video is the understanding of what a plot hole is. I've seen a video from talking about
"plot holes" in Captain America: Civil War. Which are actually self explanatory if people paid attention to the details.
I enjoyed your reaction to this episode. Here is something to think about. In Ep5 of the Ahsoka series, during Ahsoka's World Between Worlds vision at the Siege of Mandalore, Anakin tells Ahsoka "Within you will be all the knowledge I possess". Taking this into account, Ahsoka knew the force power of psychometry, an ability taught to her by Anakin. Now, when Vader finds Ahsoka's saber at the crash site of the Tribunal, he would no doubt have been able to see everything that happened there in vivid detail. He knew that she survived, and that she had left the saber for him to find as a symbol of her turning the page and leaving the past behind. Such a gut wrenching and emotional episode. I miss Clone Wars; the finale was epic.
A trick so she can fake her death,? I thaught it's just a sign for a part of ahsoka died with the killed clones on the venator cruiser...