It makes sense on the model Bs because space is precious and it allowed space for dedicated uart and rtc battery ports though on the model B I would rather have 1 full sized than 2 micro. On the 500 I just don't understand.
Normal hdmi is much bigger? They probably prefer it because they have more hdmi cables lying around and it's hard to find usb c display cables unless you buy one and label it
Interesting to see the M.2 slot still be exposed when you open it up despite not having any of the parts installed. Really wish we will get something like “Pi 550” with all the missing features in the future!
@@HyenaEmpyema Oh that is a good point for why they didn't have M.2 cause of FCC. Hopefully they have this feature dealt with soon, so we have SSD. Also be nice if we had ram slots so we could expand to 32 GB ram.
@@tomgidden I can agree with you. I use my Kingston NV1 NVMe SSD as an external hard drive, and I can easily feel how hot it is, even with the thermal pads attached on it.
When was the last time you saw a store selling micro HDMI to micro HDMI cables without having to dig and search for it online? I just checked and it looks like monoprice doesn't even have one and cables are their main deal. I finally found a 6 foot one on amazon but it was several dollars more than a cable that was regular HDMI to micro. It is actually pretty uncommon to see anything using micro for input. Usually it is devices with space constraints using it for outputs so I don't think many company are building micro to micro cables. The real question is with the form factor of the 500 why is it using micro? I wonder if there is some RF reason or if it was just that they could get the connectors cheaper or something.
I just picked up the Raspberry Pi Zero 2W with the Argon pod case and HDMI Hub. I love it as a Playstation. I have a Nacon Playstation controller for it but I need a second one.
Yeah, being able to netboot one of these and power it all with one cable would be super cool! Hopefully they can make that work next time or release a different PoE version
Still mini HDMI + still no USB-C + unpopulated M.2 slot + tiny Wifi PC antenna + no active cooling while increasing the price ? WTF Raspberry Pi ? If you want to charge more then do it properly.
If you insist on looking at the Pi as a typical computer, then that's your problem... the Pi isn't meant to be one. If you want all those things you mention, then just buy a mainstream PC or laptop, be happy and go on your merry way. If you want to do what the Pi is designed for, then it's a good machine, which also happens to be able to run a full Linux desktop and do many typical computer tasks reasonably well. I'm surprised that, with you clearly being an expert in business practice, you haven't noticed the increase in performance of the product, nor grasped the ideas of inflation and rising costs and how they relate to selling products, breaking even or even making a profit.
@@another3997 Things like the N100 are getting far too dangerously close to the price of the Pi for them to sit on their laurels. There are companies selling mini pcs with them for around what a complete Pi kit would cost, and then you have an x86 PC with a far better GPU, software support, and ports.
same here, looks head less laptop, and if screens where a little portablem basic portable laptop size PC, that power useage set low, you bigger power battery brick,
Bro, no cheap displays use microHDMI either. You need a special cable or adapter. And if You need a custom cable or adapter anyway, why would microHDMI->HDMI be better (or at least not a magnitude worse) than Display port->HDMI? DisplayPort is compatible with HDMI and the cables are even cheaper and more accessible than microHDMI.
@@mattbland2380 Adoption of microHDMI is also low, you can't connect RPi directly to most screens without adapter or special cable. So if you need adapter or special cable anyway then why not get DisplayPort to HDMI adapter instead?
@ because HDMI connections is the identical at any size. Displayport to HDMI is more complicated. Most DisplayPort to HDMI cables provide a one way conversion and can’t be reversed.
Beyond being a good "first pc" for young people, I struggle to see a use case for the machine. The monitor looks like a great value for the price, though the VESA mount blocking access to the ports makes me hesitate.
The keyboard on the pi 400 is so bad I wouldn't call it a good "first pc" for anyone. And, seriously, how can they make a computer that can't even play youtube well? The oldest phone can do it... Sigh.
£95 for the 15 inch Pi monitor (no cables), or £70 for a 21 inch LG (from Scan and with the cables), or even £35 for a 10 inch (with cables) from AliExpress. Why would I buy the Pi offering?
Nope, it's a terrible first PC, first PC doesn't mean bad PC, quite the opposite. The only target audience for this are fans of Pi, otherwise it's not competitive with anything. For 200$ you can buy new Windows laptop, which would be much more powerful and hassle free (and makes for good first PC), or you can get used one even cheaper.
I bought a Pi 400 because it reminded me of a Commodore 64, like the modern equivalent of a retro-computer. That being said, I played with it about as often as my actual Commodore 64 that I have on my desk, which is, rarely.
Hey Jeff! Thanks for always keeping up. I hope the UC is going well with you. I got into an area of computers I've only dreamed of because of creators like you. Keep it up!
Am I correct in believing that the m.2 runs through the mini pcie on the pi5? Does the pi500 also NOT have pcie capabilty which is necessary for m.2 ? If that is the case its woefully under featured...
Well spotted. Your prize is in the post. It's not a Sinclair ZX81, ZX Spectrum, Atari 800, Apple Lisa, MSX or IBM PC AT either. As far as I can tell it isn't a dishwasher either. How disappointing.
Well what do you expect them to say? It is really the only answer they can give having shipped a product that clearly has the footprint for features they didn't include in the end. Which isn't uncommon at all, lots of stuff ends up with unpopulated headers and it is always because the company thinks populating that header would hurt the sales as the price must go up, or hurt their margins too much.
@@autohmae Yeah but often when hardware manufacturers do this they are trying to hit a hard price target and not really looking at the trade offs. In this case it's pretty hard to believe that the cost of adding the slot would have added that much to the final product, especially given how much the end product would have been improved. Sigh.
Yeah, they can feel whatever they want, but I feel they are full of it & are planning a more expensive version that has all those options populated. I also feel like I am not paying $90 something that cut down.
This one feels like they really phoned it in. The missing NVMe is the most obvious dropped ball, and I've never understoon why they insist in micro HDMI when they have the space for full sized ports. Really, one HDMI and a full-featured USB-C (with video and 20v PD charging) port would be far more useful - just connect it to a 60W+ USB-C monitor and you've got everything you need over a single cable. I also agree with other folks that the power button placement is likely to lead to accidents.
People seem to want is a Raspberry Pi that has all the features and performance of a mainstream desktop or laptop, yet costs less then them. That isn't going to happen. Add in the price and availability of powerful computers in the used market, and the Pi can't compete as a typical primary desktop machine. It's designed to be a relatively cheap tinkering and hobbyist computer, which is where the Pi shines. It has GPIO, HATs, OS support and all the project ideas you could need.
Once again the Pi Foundation shoots and lands short... You can see there is the physical space to fit full size HDMI, but no we'll give you this crap micro option. We have space to add a M.2 and we'll even include all the wiring, but we won't actually add it to the board. And we have just released a new Compute Module that comes in multiple versions and would probably make the Pi500 even more versatile, but we won't use them. And then they release a 15 inch monitor that if you mount it in a stand you need to bolt in the cables before mounting the monitor, which costs £95. I can buy an LG 21 inch for £60, and I just bought a 10 inch full HD from AliExpress for £35. The Pi Monitor doesn't even include the damn HDMI or power cables! I really love the idea of the Pi, but with every evolution they just seem to be unsure where they are really going and what they want to be.
I'm usually hopelessly good at justifying my impulse, poorly-thought out tech purchases, to the point of getting broke in the process. That said, even I struggled with talking myself into getting a previous model, Pi 400. - Want a low-power desktop without a clutter? Get yourself a second-hand Small Form Factor PC that mounts neatly behind your monitor. With Pi 500 you get one less cable (from keyboard to the main unit) but instead keep dragging all your computer's cables around your your desk, stuck into said "keyboard". - Want mobility? It's a solved problem and it's been for decades. It's called a laptop. Plus, it has a built-in screen and a battery. "But... but... but... GPIO!" I have yet to see anyone actually developing an electronics project using that thing. Why would you want to keep your prototype stuck to your keyboard and then be afraid to move it without the risk of messing it up? So, you're at the stage that you want to teach your kid electronics but said kid just somehow happens to not have access to any kind of computer in your household? Like: "Look daughter, this is a computer. Now we'll make an LED blink", I mean come on, seriously? 😛 Jeff rightly pointed out that we've moved from Commodore 64 form factor decades ago, just stopped short of admitting we've done so for a good reason. It's for made-up, fantasy scenarios. And the unpopulated NVMe slot is just the ultimate middle finger to the potential customer.
As usual, narrow minded people are missing the primary goal of the Pi. It is not, never has been and never will be designed to compete directly with traditional PCs and laptops. If all you want is a reasonably powerful, reasonably efficient primary computer, the Pi probably isn't for you. We all know that there are a great many better, more powerful hardware options available, both new and used. Buy the Pi you want a cheapish computer with access to GPIO, lots of third party hobbyist hardware and software projects, has great, long term OS support and a huge hobbyist community around it.
@@another3997 Too busy insulting people who don't share your exact worldview to notice I wasn't dunking on Pis in general, just the "let's all pretend to get excited by a computer in a keyboard" form factor? You do realise you can SSH into your RPI from a real computer you DO have anyway and don't need a separate keyboard for that, you enlightened, wide-minded person? I know, shocking...
God damn. I laughed so hard for minutes at the father talking to the daughter line…. You made my day. Seriously I am like you and i am suprised it even got 8 gigs of ram. With the SSD i would have bought it even though it still would have been a toy mostly because i built myself the smallest possible pi 5 with a pimoroni nvme base with a 3d printed case. I use it as my primary pc despite all its limitations because it is so small, light and efficient and since the wayland update it can play 1080p60 yt smoothly in Chromium or 1440p30. Local Video files in 4K play fine. It handles everyday browsing, loading ebooks to kindle, mail and even music production (pi music and lightwave) reasonably well. And even though n100 machines are the same price in Europe they are often low quality, not very durable and in some cases even infested with chinese spyware and for me personally way to big and heavy and I am well aware of the performance difference. I would buy the new M4 mac mini if i would consider something bigger. I even think about building a nano pc using the cm5 and the waveshare nano b board. The dream would be an all in one device. Either a real OS on a Smartphone with no limitations when plugged into a docking station (similar to Samsung Dex) or I will build a Pi Phone/ Cyberdeck that works reasonably well as a phone. Modern phones have more than enough power IMHO.
"We feel the feature set we've picked for the Pi 500 is the right one" sounds like "We could've done it, and decided that you don't need this." Love it when a corporation, which Raspberry now is, uses condescension to excuse cheapskating. I had hoped to get this device as my first Pi, but I can't support that attitude. They'd have been better off saying nothing.
It would be pretty easy to make a run of like, 2000 of them with the POE and/or NVME slot and sell it as the Pi505 for $100 or $110. If people want it, they can pay for it and buy it. If they sell well, make another 2000 of them. Or even make it a Tindie or Kickstarter kind of deal where 'If people preorder 5000 of them, we'll make a run and ship them out.'
I love it when people with no idea of what they're talking about make silly statements like yours. I'm sure you have huge experience in making commercial electronics projects for a global audience, so when can we can expect YOUR product to compete with the Raspberry Pi? Will it have everything built in, be faster, more expandable and cost half the price of the Pi, whilst still offering great, long term OS support? No doubt you will also set up an educational charity to run alongside it. Can't wait to see it. 😂🙄
@@another3997 It would have been very easy to add an externally accessible M.2 and full size HDMI ports. Around US$5 worth of parts when ordering at scale, and another few seconds on the production line. Raspberry Pi's decision is inexplicable. It'll be interesting to see if they use that same board with a populated M.2 slot and power circuitry in another device.
I find it amusing that the 'the keyboard is the computer' describes the computers I grew up with, it wasn't until I got to college that I encountered a computer with a separate keyboard.
I'd love if Raspberry Pi made a special edition in black with the little rainbow stripe in honor of the ZX Spectrum. The first computer I remember using was a Mac Plus, and then the first I owned was a 386... I just missed out on that magical time when there were like 10 different radically-different approaches!
Thanks Jeff. I hope that the Pi Foundation add that slot, so that we can get away from being dependent upon a flash card. And I'm waiting for them to ditch that fragile micro HDMI connector which always needs an adapter..
I just watched a video of the ancient Atari 800 computer. So ancient most people won't even know what that is. But it had a panel you could pop open to add in more memory. Just slot the cards in, no need to spudge open a case or anything crazy. I mention this because I feel like in the pursuit of making everything as thin as possible. We've pushed all the functional stuff we really want out of reach. If that keyboard was twice as thick, would you be upset? Would it put you off? It could have easy access to all kinds of things like fully size ports, easy slot in memory/SSD or even usb drives held inside. Maybe I'm out of touch and people do demand thin before features. Also that power button is where my pinky goes to delete, so that's going to have it turned off way too often. The power should be on the back surely?
The Atari 800 came with 8k of RAM (expandable to 48k at significant cost) and ran a 6502C at 1.79 MHz. It sold for approaching $1000 in the US at release. Expansion or not, you can do a lot more with the Pi 500 (which has a MicroSD card slot rather than another expensive add-on in the form of a floppy drive) for a tenth of the price. And let's not forget, the graphics functionality nowadays is in a completely different class. I love expandable but it seems likely that NVMe etc. are coming even if they couldn't achieve it in this model, and who's to say that when it does come, the cover won't have an expansion door? My personal pet hate, which others have called out, is the micro HDMI ports.
@@taliesynd6116 haha I wasn't suggesting the Atari800 was anything anyone would want to use today. I just happened to have watched a video about it and I loved how you could upgrade it without even removing a screw. Given it was so primitive and early on in computing it surprised me. And its something I've always appreciated about my PC. Being able to add to it over many years as parts come along. Also the reason I've never owned a laptop. I don't believe upgradability without tools has to add any expense. In fact I'd argue it makes it cheaper to design. Compare the desktop PC to the laptop. The laptop has to be portable, light as possible. The screen can't be a whopping 30 or 40" beast that desktop users enjoy. And for the same performance you will always pay more for the laptop. Because of the design choices. So designing for the thinnest, lightest isn't cheaper. And with a keyboard that is also a PC I question the choice to make it so thin even the motherboard is a thin strip rather than something that could take up the whole surface area of the keys. Anyway I'm not hitting on the device, I think its pretty great apart from that power button lol Just lamenting everything becoming more device like and aesthetically you'll end up with wires and adaptors hanging out of it to plug in more storage or other peripherals. Where as much of that could have fit inside and looked more pleasing despite being thicker. Just some thoughts but you made me laugh describing the performance of an Atari800. They were pretty awful machines that never sold well but still very cleverly designed I think.
@@ClayMann Yeah I think back to those days (I didn't have an Atari 800, but did have a BBC Microcomputer - which was expandable without taking the lid off, and later issues than mine had a ZIF socket accessible at the left hand side of the keyboard, probably a decent analogy to the currently-missing NVMe socket in the Pi500) and we were so excited to have them, warts and all. When I think about what we complain about in a machine today, we "don't know we are born", as my father would say!
@@taliesynd6116 ah you were a beeb owner! They were built like tanks. I always wanted one after seeing Vince Clark using a BBC to control synths over MIDI. That seemed like something near magical to me at the time. I went down the commodore tree from vic20 to Amiga (and I eventually got my MIDI interface for the Amiga heh). It always disturbs me seeing the math on current speeds of computers are a billion times faster than what I used 30 years ago.
"We feel that the feature set we picked for the Pi 500 is the right one" I feel they are out of touch with their main customer base. Also, while I appreciate the power button - putting it on the normal keyboard layout is a design flaw. Especially for dyspraxic people.
@@thelegendaryklobb2879 It just brings up the shutdown request window. You have to then hit enter to confirm shutdown. You can override a crashed computer by holding down for 10 seconds.
Sadly, it more that many customers want and expect the Pi to be something it isn't meant to be. If you just want a high performance computer with high speed storage and such like, buy a mainstream laptop or desktop PC. It will cost you more, unless you buy used, but it will offer things a Pi doesn't. But the Pi isn't designed to compete with those, it's designed around the flexibility of the GPIO, to be a cheap tinkering and hobbyist machine with 1000s of hardware projects... not as a primary desktop.
@@another3997 Sure, but for £35 you can drastically improve the interactive user performance of the Pi 5 with the official Pi HAT+ with official 256GB SSD. Back when Pi 1 launched many of us saw it as a possible replacement for expensive network terminals, eg. X terminals, thin clients. It was too slow. Pi 500 is a very credible replacement for a ChromeOS-style desktop thin client. The very cheap addition of an SSD would have made it substantially more capable for that role. It'd be great to see a Pi-approved or led server distribution with pre-configured PXE Boot Server, etc., for managing a classroom, a lab, an office, a hotel business centre, etc. A room of Pi 500s with SSDs (so applications could be locally stored), and single power/data/video cable from keyboard to monitor, and single power cable to monitor would be a great and cheap solution, and _they are so close to delivering exactly that._
UA-cam has enabled auto translation of titles and descriptions for your channel, can you turn it off somewhere in the channel settings? It's pretty obnoxious
@@JeffGeerlingSign in to UA-cam Studio on your computer. Click Settings   Upload defaults  Advanced settings. Uncheck the Allow automatic dubbing box. Click Save.
I can't believe Raspberry Pi foundation developed their own company-branded NVME SSDs, yet, no slot to add one to the Pi 500. That seems like such a huge missed opportunity, a lot of people buying the 500 would probably just add an SSD to their order if they could slot one in easily. EDIT: WOW, you really asked them "What was your thought process?", which is a nice way of saying what we're all thinking about that choice, and they stood by their decision to not include less than $.50 in parts that would have added a lot of functionality. Wild.
Where do you get your cost figures from? Which parts and in what quantities? Have you taken into account development of the relevant firmware too? Have you costed the extra to actually produce the fully populated boards? Have you checked minimum order requirements and costed them out? Have you checked component availability and lead times? I'm sure the Raspberry Pi team will benefits from your expert knowledge... they've only been in the business for over a decade, so they obviously have no idea what they're doing. 😂
I wish there were a keyboard dock you could stick a compute module in, like a cartridge. No need to throw away the keyboard, when it gets old. Just slap in a new module and you're up to date.
Was just thinking of the access door for nvme when you mentioned it. Yeah, seems like something they could've done easily if they decided to fully include nvme. Little bit disappointing that we don't get to have nvme, would've made this a lot more appealing. Maybe someone can figure out what needs to be populated and make a kit, it won't be an easy kit, definitely some micro soldering experience required.
@@JeffGeerling I suspect if Raspberry doesn't do it themselves, someone will offer it as a service to install the M.2 slot. Buying the necessary boards and cables to do this on the Pi5 wasn't cheap either so it might be about the same depending on how much people charge for the soldering job. I'm not sure, just guessing.
The M.2 slot would've made this an instant buy for me. Pi Foundation if you are reading the comments then please make this a thing. Also, I am worried about that power button location. I can see that button easily being pressed when pressing backspace. Moving it to the side or the back with the other outputs would've probably been a better choice.
And if they do, people will complain that the price is too high, along with all the other things they don't like... all whilst blissfully ignoring the basic fact that the primary goal of the Pi isn't being a typical desktop PC. It's designed to encourage and enable people to use and experiment with a huge variety of external projects, and get people into programming for them etc.
For home use, nah. I just bought a couple of 1440 monitors for 109 on sale and they are under 150 without being on sale. Now for use in/on a vehicle with the ability to be powered via USB they are worth considering. Of course there may be a LOT of people out there that live in areas with far more limited options for buying things like monitors or they may have tight power constraints. I could see them being attractive to somebody living off grid or for somebody building kits to take into areas for disaster relief to set up stations for people to communicate with the outside world with a whole table of gear running off a generator or a few small foldable solar panels. Have a whole computer lab in a hard case complete with power and something like a starlink dish. They are big enough to be readable but low power use and compact enough for something like that.
The display is over priced, comes with no cables, and a damn stupid implementation of VESA. The only thing going for it is that it looks like a Pi monitor.
@@gordon861 - We might also eventually see CAD files for using it as a laptop screen, but there's no point buying a Pi monitor for something that might, possibly, in the future happen.
@@gordon861 I find a lot of the large Pi-branded accessories fall into a similar category. Over-priced for what they offer. Notably USB Keyboard and Mouse is 35$ (20+15). Basic versions are half that. Decent enough Wireless keyboards with trackpads start at 25$. 16 & 32gb SD cards are like 10-15$ when you can get trusted brand 64 and 128s for the same price. I do give them a bit more of a pass on the SD cards though, if you are ordering one with Raspbian installed though - even though that's free to download, but it streamlines things if you're getting a fresh machine..
commenting mainly because I appreciate your content and want to feed the algorithm. this is SO DARN CLOSE to being the perfect computer. I genuinely hope they release a "plus" version of this thing!
This is a perfect little thing for an electronics workbench. All you need is to read docs and occasionally run either youtube or other software to look at stuff. I use a Pi 4 and an external monitor for that, but replacing it with a Pi 500 and a monitor for 200 USD? Yes, please
I would rather have a computer integrated in the monitor and wireless keyboard and mouse. That way I can always move the keyboard when I need to clear the workbench. I also get the benefit of using a keyboard and mouse of my choice. A Raspberry 500 is always going to have at least two (usb for power and hdmi) cables attached to which will make it harder to move away.
@@henrikkarlsson8522 a Pi5 (or equivalent) with PoE and NVM hats in a semi decent active cooled case velcroed to the back of a monitor would be better than the Pi 500, you even get the bonus of a couple of camera ports so you can keep an eye on your workspace remotely, if set up securely.
@@JeffGeerlingI’ve got a 400 in my basement workshop, mostly for web browsing, playing music while working down there, and as a terminal next to my (currently unused) 3D printer. And just for fun. Similar set-up in my garage workshop but with a pi 4 and pi keyboard
@@henrikkarlsson8522 Two words: PoE PiMac. A monitor like this one with an inbuilt CM5, PoE power (so it's single-cable like a Silicon iMac) and m.2 for performance. I'd love to test it with a PoE hat and a Pi Monitor... See if 30W is enough. Think you'd need 802.3bt though.
At 9:58, JEFF: just flood that connector with flux, paint over it a couple of times with the soldering iron and some fresh solder, clean it up and it will be AMAZING! Thanks for the video!
I tried that a couple times, but I think the PCB was soaking up all the heat... I should order a PCB heater so I can keep it a bit warmer for a connector like this. I also ordered some solder paste, using hot air would probably be easier!
Right now the best solution for roughly the same price would be a Pi Keyboard, a Pi Monitor and a Pi 5 with an NVMe base taped to the back of the monitor. The only thing that'd be missing (over the Pi 500) would be a power button and LED on the keyboard. And, unlike the Pi 500 it'd have PoE, more USB ports, two display/camera connectors, and ample cooling. A dream product right now would be a Pi 5 case with NVMe base that'd hang from passthroughs for the VESA mounts (allowing a VESA stand), plug into HDMI and power on the monitor with captive connectors or short, neat, routed cables, plus a beefy compliant PSU to power both the monitor and the Pi 5. Better yet, the same thing but with the 16GB CM5. It wouldn't be hard to design a carrier board for the CM5 with an M.2 slot to add to the back of the monitor.
Commodore 64: I think this is an interesting form factor that might be a good fit. Sun Microsystems: the network is the computer Raspberry Pi: how about we go with keyboard again instead. 🙂
It feels like such a clean device should be able to work with less cables attached. Not sure the price hike it would need to have a single USB-C port for power and displayport. Also, too little memory. The pi forums seem to be very against a 16GB option, but for a mini-desktop, it would have been good.
Every time i buy a rpi, it's almost always either overpowered for the simple things i wanted to do, or don't have enough features or power to do the complex stuff.. that's why esp32 blowing up...
@@vaisakh_km Exactly.. I own two RPi's, two secondhand RPI 4's. They are either way too strong, and overpowered there's no point to using them, or I can't run anything due to the limited ram. I own like.. 20 esp8266's and a couple esp32's, and they are so much more targeted for their usecases and perfect in my projects. I sometimes also use those RPI RP chips. Pretty useful things for keyboards. Have two in my own split keyboard.
Yup I've pretty much given up on them at this point. Usually you can either use a cheaper esp32 if you dont need the power, or a cheap N100 if you do need the power, either way both work out to be vastly better products than the stuff being shipped by Raspberry Pi these days. They've completely given up even attempting to act like they care or listen to their customers. Then again, we're no longer their customers, if you don't have a production line or massive B2B business you're second class to them these days.
Outstanding video, Jeff! Very informative. And I deeply appreciate that we can always trust you to be honest with your reviews, even about the parts that are disappointing.
When any company uses the words at 3:23, especially when talking to (none other than) Jeff Geerling, it gives me second thoughts about their intentions.
Weird choice not to make this a Compute-Module based product, so ya could upgrade the CPU later. Also one would expect a lil' door on the bottom to access the M.2. slot from the underside without opening the whole case.
In one Pi forum I was told Raspberry Pi is a SBC. That's an important difference to remember. It is 'NOT' a computer that everyone wants, but the one who needs it.
???? 🤔 If you really want a legacy interface like SATA on a new product, you should use a USB adapter. The bandwidth of a 4 lane M.2 slot is 20 Gb/S versus 6 for SATA. You also need to add a PCIe to SATA controller chip, the power supply for that chip, and a serial e2prom for the controller's firmware which cost more and teke extra PCB space. It's a lose-lose.
I'm glad to see this finally came out. I figure this will be great to help teach my daughter computer land stuff. Too bad on the nvme port. I would happily pay a little extra if they added that in officially.
well, covid is to blame, dont forget about pi4 release date right now broadcom is not having any production problems or the rest of component pi suppliers so it came to be faster but tbh i expect a new pit for next year, more cpu power and more cores
@@JeffGeerling You have a lot of influence, maybe it's possible to get an upgrade board for the Raspberry Pi 400, with a CM module, and add a full hdmi port 😁
Costs and thickness probably - the CM connectors are for a single component rather expensive and if memory serves are about 1mm thick between the carrier board and the computer module, so add in the thickness of the PCB for the CM as well that is a pretty solid around 2mm of extra bulge...
I really love the idea of the Pi X00 form factor as super-clean terminal/casual use PCs, but I can't help but think that this is only like 90% of the way there. Seeing that unpopulated POE section on the board is heartbreaking, since that was possibly my most-missed feature from the Pi 400 (I bought one with the intention of trying out NFS booting, and POE power would make the whole thing basically single-cable aside from video out). HDMI that's not full-size is also a major bummer. If somebody made a mini PC with POE and like an N100/N150 built into a proper mechanical keyboard for
After all these years of buying Raspberry Pis I really don't see a reason in purchasing the 500. The pi 400 was an excellent value proposition but at $120 for the full kit I can get one of those $100 mini PCs, an Amazon keyboard and mouse combo and have significantly better experience in day to day use. I really expected it to be at the same price as the 400 😅 silly me
RPi 400 is just over 4 years old. Using the inflation calculator websites, from Nov 2020 to October 2024, $70 becomes $85. So really, it's about 10% more expensive, at most, for A LOT of improvements. Seems pretty fair to me. Though I do hate the micro HDMI ports, I wish they wouldn't exist. Also, this isn't solely focused in being a generic PC. Does your $100 mini PC come with 40 pins of GPIO ? With a custom led on the keyboard ? These are rather small things, but they add up. For some, they matter. Also is your mini PC + Amazon keyboard and mouse just as compact as RPi 400/500 ? There's tradeoffs.
There could be 2 reasons why the M2 slot is missing: 1. It is an option for a later more expensive model 2. They made something wrong and the M2 option will not work.
Oh man. Someone gave me a rpi400, and I love that thing. I put batocera on it and it's fantastic for playing old games. I don't use the built-in keyboard though... just a wireless joystick. It sits under the living room TV and it's the best game console I've ever had. Totally silent, barely uses any power at all, and it plays pretty much any console or arcade game up to 2000 and any handheld up to 2005, complete with shaders and rewind and fast-forward and stuff. If I ever upgrade though, I wouldn't want a rpi500... I'd rather just use a cheap Linux mini PC like a N100 or similar.
@@kirishima638 Well, yeah. I'm using it because someone gave it to me. The benefit is that it was free, has all the parts included, and can be turned on/off with a button press instead of having to ssh in or plug a cable. The keyboard works well enough for OS install, but for actual daily use I'd plug in one of my QMK keyboards. I'd be better off with a rpi5 with a power button, case, and power supply... but for the price, a cheap N100 would work even better. Raspberry Pi has been a fantastic platform, from the beginning up to rpi4... but it's hard to justify a rpi5 since a cheap mini PC runs a lot faster for the same price, at about the same size, and uses only a little bit more power.
@@kirishima638 Well, yeah. I wouldn't have _bought_ it because other items would work better for me. But as a gift, it has been fun. Basically everything up to psx and gba runs perfectly, so it lets me play 10,000+ games.
Yeah, this was an instabuy for me. It's a very welcome upgrade on my Pi400, which I still love. The Pi400 will continue to live on as an arm64 build machine for my projects when the Pi500 replaces it as my new desktop.
Had a pair of 400's for all of 2 weeks a few years back. They were great, however, I lost them in a house fire and have never gotten around to replacing them with more important things to replace. I really liked them and was great for on the go with other portable pieces. Edit: Even at that price, in Canada, when I saw this video, it was an automatic instant buy for me. I loved those 400s for the short time I had them and seeing the 500 being a, relative, heavy weight compared to the previous version is more than enough to convince me to get the 500 by itself. If not one or two full kits.
Jeff: "The world has moved on from the C64" Me: "Hold the phone!" - Actually, you got me there. My SX-64 has a separate keyboard. doh! -> Jokes aside, an RPi tablet in similar form factor to Galaxy Tab / M$ Surface with same type of keyboard setup (and user accessible M.2 trapdoor slot) _and_ access to GPIO pins would be awesome.
@@ClunkyCreations I have this on my macos keyboard with lock, i tend to lock my machine every time i wanna backspace... tempted to mod it to remove the button its so annoying
@@disasterincarnate No but the CM4 was like hens teeth to find due to everything else that was going on. The CM5 should be easier to find. But the other option is a Pi5 and 'Argon NEO 5 M.2 NVME PCIE Case for Raspberry Pi 5' for $40. Which takes full size M.2 rather than the cut down versions from the official Pi source.
@@disasterincarnate they even smashed it into a PSP shell, you can easily find the PCB with a bunch of USB ports, proper HDMI and m2 port, it's what everybody wanted and it sold best
0:48 In my book, the power key doesn’t belong close to a frequently used key, such as the backspace one. From a usability POV, it should be offset from regular keys, maybe placed at the back or the side if space is an issue.
Thanks for sharing! The PI500 seems ideal for schools. Its security cable and 'bring your own SD card' setup make it easy to manage in a shared school lab environment. It's truly plug-and-play. Best Regards
The lack of NVMe doesn't bother me, but the fact that it's CPU is weaker than a budget smartphone and it doesn't have USB-C video output (instead uses micro HDMI) is a huge turnoff. Really hoping they make a revision of this, or for some competitor to start making in-keyboard PCs.
Considering N100 mini PCs are going for around $150 with performance, flexibility, and connectivity that blow this thing out of the water, the 500 is a swing and a miss from Raspberry Pi. And I was waiting for a 500 to drop to buy one too!
oh my god, youtube started again with the automatic translated audio, very cool feature but i'd rather watch it with the original one. translated to spanish with that ai voice sounds so weird(i'm from argentina), i wish youtube didn't automatically put the audio and instead put a callout or a text indicating that you can change the audio language changing the subject, i've been waiting for raspberry to release the pi 500 for a very long time, so much so, that i watched that explaining computers pi500 maker video like 5 times!! excellent video as always, Jeff
@@JeffGeerling not only appl iMac all other all in one pc are monitor with built in computer. And I think some UA-camr allready built computer in a mouse two times.
Seriously, why hasn't raspberry pi made their own laptop yet? I adore the old-school wedge computer form factor but a laptop with the same internals would be much more practical.
Is there a compelling reason to get this over a minipc that has better specs for around the same price, or within 20-30 dollars? GPIO and KB is the only thing I can think of
Would have been an instant buy, the lack of m.2 sucks. May look into it if I can find hi-res pictures of the pcb space for the missing component pads. Can probably zoink parts from work.
This feels like a poorly thought out release, I know that sounds harsh but the unpopulated m.2, STILL using micro hdmi knowing full well nobody wants it (theres plenty of space for full fat hdmi there, why...just...why?!). Add to that the price increase and this just feels like a moneygrab more than a thought out product. It's like they didn't even listen to customer feedback at all. Also seriously how much are we talking to slap a door on the bottom of the plastic casing and add the components for the m.2. Even if they launched with it disabled and a promise of future support it would've made the price increase understandable.
considering the inspiration for the pi400 and pi500 is the old 16bit Amiga computers which had a trapdoor slot underneath for quickly adding accelerators or ram expansions so you didnt have to fully open the computers up, then i am simply amazed they didnt do the same thing for an M.2 feature on both the pi400 or this new pi500.
Why would I buy this over a mini-pc? You do have to spend more for a N100 but it’s more performant in all regards. The Pi Foundation is off course. The existing user base is what’s keeping them afloat. It’s going to be slow death be attrition as users slowly migrate to better SBC options.
I have a PI5 attached to the back of a monitor, with an integral Pineberry HatDrive running a 500GB M.2 drive. Also added a USB hub which I stuck to the base of the monitor. Works great, and I can use my favorite keyboard.
They've release a dozen products this last month, maybe in the rush before Christmas, and m 2 slot wasn't possible. Also the resulting price bump would make it less appealing to casual buyers. This isn't for power users
Looks so good. If additionally they added a trackpad and had a switch to make it expose itself as a usb_gadget keyboard/mouse/hub combo, it could be the ultimate remote/embedded diagnostic tool.
Sending an anticipated apology to Eben Upton and his team, but that statement at 3:30 is *so patronising it irks me* . The whole gist of the Raspberry ecosystem is to make even the most Average of users want to tinker, mod and develop. Getting your grubby hands inside the Pi500 is a given, besides, one used to open and work on older Microcomputers as well, why not this one? I would have passed on the lack of M.2 as a minor gripe, but after that statement, and with the price bump, I think it has become a dealbreaker. That and no full size HDMI which is just asinine.
"We feel the feature set we've picked for the Pi 500 is the right one." Boo. And that's why I won't be buying one. A Pi 5 AIO needs faster, integrated storage that's more than just an SD card. Full stop. Otherwise, just having a keyboard isn't compelling enough when I could just get an equally cheap keyboard and a Pi5 which _can_ easily have NVME storage added. What they've made is just a faster 400 for people already satisfied with the 400 form factor. With a power button.
Unfortunately, refurbished 24" monitors for less than $100 CAD make the Pi Monitor look like a poor value. It feels a bit like Raspberry Pi has lost their original value proposition of an economical, entry-level, hacker-friendly, education-friendly devices.
Refurbished is a different value proposition, especially since those monitors aren't portable with a kickstand. I have a few, and they're great, and some of the panels are even nicer (plus it's neat to have DisplayPort, a better stand, etc.), but that's like comparing apples and oranges. If you're a school district speccing out a maker lab or something, this seems like it would fit that well. Or a display you could slide in and out of a rack for a homebrew KVM.
about the poe, it is not a function a person starting with pcs will ever use, a normal pi or a pi cm5 would use such option, but a desktop pc inside a keyboard is not likely to ever use it, and add the components to never be used is a waste of time and money in design and components, a person on a normal home will have access to a usb charger and that is what you connect here now i ask, what are you smoking to imagine poe will be everywhere, have you seen the price of a poe switch? the person buying a pi500 cant pay that
Sorry, that is **NOT** the right location for a power button. If the power button is placed anywhere near my formatting keys linearly with the board, it's a fail. One errant backspace and you're shutting down right in the middle of your document. Companies need to stop this.
There are ways to change a power button's behavior in the OS settings (set to suspend or make it do nothing), but yea, that is a fail (especially as a cat owner).
Really sorry for them that the Orangepi 5 plus exist. Can be had with up to 32GB of RAM, has M.2 on board as well as a second m.2 for WiFi of your choice. There are a pair of full sized HDMI ports and an HDMI input as well as a USBC port, two USBA 2.0, two USBA 3.0 ports, and a 1Gb ethernet port. It is a screamer. Only down side is the lack of developer support. It is a good deal more costly than a pi, but having both, the orangepi 5 plus runs circles around the Raspberry.
Please, Pi Foundation, no more micro HDMI, all my homies hate micro HDMI
It makes sense on the model Bs because space is precious and it allowed space for dedicated uart and rtc battery ports though on the model B I would rather have 1 full sized than 2 micro. On the 500 I just don't understand.
Why not thunderbolt?
If the size is your concern, then use USB C.
Normal hdmi is much bigger? They probably prefer it because they have more hdmi cables lying around and it's hard to find usb c display cables unless you buy one and label it
Could be worse, it could be mini hdmi...
Interesting to see the M.2 slot still be exposed when you open it up despite not having any of the parts installed. Really wish we will get something like “Pi 550” with all the missing features in the future!
Agreed. PoE and access doors for NVMe and battery capability (18650s?)
They probably had it working but couldn't get it past FCC certification. Maybe the traces started acting like an antenna. Or maybe thermals
I'm starting to think it's a heat thing. Like they designed it for M.2, but couldn't get it working with the heat sink limitations.
@@HyenaEmpyema Oh that is a good point for why they didn't have M.2 cause of FCC. Hopefully they have this feature dealt with soon, so we have SSD. Also be nice if we had ram slots so we could expand to 32 GB ram.
@@tomgidden I can agree with you. I use my Kingston NV1 NVMe SSD as an external hard drive, and I can easily feel how hot it is, even with the thermal pads attached on it.
I want sbd from their development to explain the logic behind selling monitors without miniHDMI and a pc with miniHDMI
It's like Apple selling half their accessories with Lightning ports forever!
When was the last time you saw a store selling micro HDMI to micro HDMI cables without having to dig and search for it online? I just checked and it looks like monoprice doesn't even have one and cables are their main deal. I finally found a 6 foot one on amazon but it was several dollars more than a cable that was regular HDMI to micro. It is actually pretty uncommon to see anything using micro for input. Usually it is devices with space constraints using it for outputs so I don't think many company are building micro to micro cables.
The real question is with the form factor of the 500 why is it using micro? I wonder if there is some RF reason or if it was just that they could get the connectors cheaper or something.
Would have been better using USB-C, at least they are common and the adapters are readily available.
@@JerzyLasica You mostly see mini HDMI on portable monitors and lapdocks.
can you imagine how hard it'd be to find a mini HDMI to mini HDMI cable??
If they added the poe and real hdmi ports, this would make a perfect thin client
Wow, networking and setting up a lab with it as a way to configure the switch would be awesome
Hence the omission of the required components
Education and industry are huge for the Pi Foundation, so they're saving that SKU for them
I remember losing power with this form factor by moving the keyboard/computer: the cable would unplug. Make sure to fasten that e.g. with velcro.
I just picked up the Raspberry Pi Zero 2W with the Argon pod case and HDMI Hub. I love it as a Playstation. I have a Nacon Playstation controller for it but I need a second one.
Yeah, being able to netboot one of these and power it all with one cable would be super cool! Hopefully they can make that work next time or release a different PoE version
Still mini HDMI + still no USB-C + unpopulated M.2 slot + tiny Wifi PC antenna + no active cooling while increasing the price ? WTF Raspberry Pi ? If you want to charge more then do it properly.
I reckon that's for a laptop they're working on.
If you insist on looking at the Pi as a typical computer, then that's your problem... the Pi isn't meant to be one. If you want all those things you mention, then just buy a mainstream PC or laptop, be happy and go on your merry way. If you want to do what the Pi is designed for, then it's a good machine, which also happens to be able to run a full Linux desktop and do many typical computer tasks reasonably well. I'm surprised that, with you clearly being an expert in business practice, you haven't noticed the increase in performance of the product, nor grasped the ideas of inflation and rising costs and how they relate to selling products, breaking even or even making a profit.
@@another3997 Things like the N100 are getting far too dangerously close to the price of the Pi for them to sit on their laurels. There are companies selling mini pcs with them for around what a complete Pi kit would cost, and then you have an x86 PC with a far better GPU, software support, and ports.
same here, looks head less laptop, and if screens where a little portablem basic portable laptop size PC, that power useage set low, you bigger power battery brick,
Why would you even release this yet. It is practically E-waste. Even if cheap, it is still terrible value because it does nothing remotely well...
Here's an idea free of charge: stop paying the HDMI royalty fees and put DisplayPorts.
Adoption of DisplayPort is too low on cheap displays. Far too many people use these with HDMI TV's and displays that do not have a DisplayPort option.
Bro, no cheap displays use microHDMI either. You need a special cable or adapter. And if You need a custom cable or adapter anyway, why would microHDMI->HDMI be better (or at least not a magnitude worse) than Display port->HDMI? DisplayPort is compatible with HDMI and the cables are even cheaper and more accessible than microHDMI.
@@mattbland2380 Adoption of microHDMI is also low, you can't connect RPi directly to most screens without adapter or special cable. So if you need adapter or special cable anyway then why not get DisplayPort to HDMI adapter instead?
@ because HDMI connections is the identical at any size. Displayport to HDMI is more complicated. Most DisplayPort to HDMI cables provide a one way conversion and can’t be reversed.
Please no. Displayport is a horrific mess of errors, disconnects, and overall bullshit that I am not willing to deal with unless absolutely necessary.
0:06 It's not so much that I hate Wi-Fi, but I really love Ethernet.
My main PCs have always used Ethernet. Never going to change. If the PC doesn't move anywhere, it's wired. A lot more stable.
Beyond being a good "first pc" for young people, I struggle to see a use case for the machine.
The monitor looks like a great value for the price, though the VESA mount blocking access to the ports makes me hesitate.
The keyboard on the pi 400 is so bad I wouldn't call it a good "first pc" for anyone.
And, seriously, how can they make a computer that can't even play youtube well?
The oldest phone can do it...
Sigh.
Iirc my library are using it for public facing terminals.
£95 for the 15 inch Pi monitor (no cables), or £70 for a 21 inch LG (from Scan and with the cables), or even £35 for a 10 inch (with cables) from AliExpress. Why would I buy the Pi offering?
Nope, it's a terrible first PC, first PC doesn't mean bad PC, quite the opposite. The only target audience for this are fans of Pi, otherwise it's not competitive with anything. For 200$ you can buy new Windows laptop, which would be much more powerful and hassle free (and makes for good first PC), or you can get used one even cheaper.
I bought a Pi 400 because it reminded me of a Commodore 64, like the modern equivalent of a retro-computer. That being said, I played with it about as often as my actual Commodore 64 that I have on my desk, which is, rarely.
Hey Jeff! Thanks for always keeping up. I hope the UC is going well with you. I got into an area of computers I've only dreamed of because of creators like you. Keep it up!
Great video. I too was disappointed at the lack of m.2. I didn’t have the courage to try soldering one on.
Am I correct in believing that the m.2 runs through the mini pcie on the pi5? Does the pi500 also NOT have pcie capabilty which is necessary for m.2 ? If that is the case its woefully under featured...
Wait, that's no Commodore 64!
need one in BROOWN
Amiga 500
@@bobslawson1623 It all peaked with the A1200
I'm guessing it's better for less currency.
Well spotted. Your prize is in the post. It's not a Sinclair ZX81, ZX Spectrum, Atari 800, Apple Lisa, MSX or IBM PC AT either. As far as I can tell it isn't a dishwasher either. How disappointing.
The CorpSpeak response to the question on why there is no NVME socket... irritates me.
pretty certain it means, the price would be to high they think it wouldn't sell as well.
That's the Pi Foundation anno 2024 for ya
Well what do you expect them to say? It is really the only answer they can give having shipped a product that clearly has the footprint for features they didn't include in the end. Which isn't uncommon at all, lots of stuff ends up with unpopulated headers and it is always because the company thinks populating that header would hurt the sales as the price must go up, or hurt their margins too much.
Agreed. Corporate speak for "Shut up and color."
@@autohmae Yeah but often when hardware manufacturers do this they are trying to hit a hard price target and not really looking at the trade offs. In this case it's pretty hard to believe that the cost of adding the slot would have added that much to the final product, especially given how much the end product would have been improved. Sigh.
Seriously no nvme? Why???
Exactly, it's absolutely a deal breaker
@@bush2137 I'm guessing it has to do with heat dissipation. NVMe SSD can get really hot.
The extra components would add cost so there is going to be some tradeoff to adding it
Cost. It's already $90 without.
my guess is heat and power consumption problems
3:30 i guess their feelings are wrong then, not including the M.2 slot is a major downside to this solution.
Yeah, they can feel whatever they want, but I feel they are full of it & are planning a more expensive version that has all those options populated.
I also feel like I am not paying $90 something that cut down.
8:50 Or, crazy idea, screws for the shell.
I fold. Too rich for me. I can't afford a 50 cent increase on a 90 dollar product.
This one feels like they really phoned it in. The missing NVMe is the most obvious dropped ball, and I've never understoon why they insist in micro HDMI when they have the space for full sized ports.
Really, one HDMI and a full-featured USB-C (with video and 20v PD charging) port would be far more useful - just connect it to a 60W+ USB-C monitor and you've got everything you need over a single cable.
I also agree with other folks that the power button placement is likely to lead to accidents.
People seem to want is a Raspberry Pi that has all the features and performance of a mainstream desktop or laptop, yet costs less then them. That isn't going to happen. Add in the price and availability of powerful computers in the used market, and the Pi can't compete as a typical primary desktop machine. It's designed to be a relatively cheap tinkering and hobbyist computer, which is where the Pi shines. It has GPIO, HATs, OS support and all the project ideas you could need.
Once again the Pi Foundation shoots and lands short...
You can see there is the physical space to fit full size HDMI, but no we'll give you this crap micro option. We have space to add a M.2 and we'll even include all the wiring, but we won't actually add it to the board. And we have just released a new Compute Module that comes in multiple versions and would probably make the Pi500 even more versatile, but we won't use them.
And then they release a 15 inch monitor that if you mount it in a stand you need to bolt in the cables before mounting the monitor, which costs £95. I can buy an LG 21 inch for £60, and I just bought a 10 inch full HD from AliExpress for £35. The Pi Monitor doesn't even include the damn HDMI or power cables!
I really love the idea of the Pi, but with every evolution they just seem to be unsure where they are really going and what they want to be.
Funny yet, the monitor uses full size hdmi. So you need a micro-normal cable. lol
I'm usually hopelessly good at justifying my impulse, poorly-thought out tech purchases, to the point of getting broke in the process. That said, even I struggled with talking myself into getting a previous model, Pi 400.
- Want a low-power desktop without a clutter? Get yourself a second-hand Small Form Factor PC that mounts neatly behind your monitor. With Pi 500 you get one less cable (from keyboard to the main unit) but instead keep dragging all your computer's cables around your your desk, stuck into said "keyboard".
- Want mobility? It's a solved problem and it's been for decades. It's called a laptop. Plus, it has a built-in screen and a battery.
"But... but... but... GPIO!" I have yet to see anyone actually developing an electronics project using that thing. Why would you want to keep your prototype stuck to your keyboard and then be afraid to move it without the risk of messing it up? So, you're at the stage that you want to teach your kid electronics but said kid just somehow happens to not have access to any kind of computer in your household? Like: "Look daughter, this is a computer. Now we'll make an LED blink", I mean come on, seriously? 😛
Jeff rightly pointed out that we've moved from Commodore 64 form factor decades ago, just stopped short of admitting we've done so for a good reason. It's for made-up, fantasy scenarios.
And the unpopulated NVMe slot is just the ultimate middle finger to the potential customer.
This is a great comment. I was wondering who this device was aimed at?
Doesn’t seem to do anything particularly well. And now they put the price up.
As usual, narrow minded people are missing the primary goal of the Pi. It is not, never has been and never will be designed to compete directly with traditional PCs and laptops. If all you want is a reasonably powerful, reasonably efficient primary computer, the Pi probably isn't for you. We all know that there are a great many better, more powerful hardware options available, both new and used. Buy the Pi you want a cheapish computer with access to GPIO, lots of third party hobbyist hardware and software projects, has great, long term OS support and a huge hobbyist community around it.
@@another3997 Too busy insulting people who don't share your exact worldview to notice I wasn't dunking on Pis in general, just the "let's all pretend to get excited by a computer in a keyboard" form factor? You do realise you can SSH into your RPI from a real computer you DO have anyway and don't need a separate keyboard for that, you enlightened, wide-minded person? I know, shocking...
@@another3997for hobbyist projects a keyboard form factor makes no sense
God damn. I laughed so hard for minutes at the father talking to the daughter line…. You made my day. Seriously I am like you and i am suprised it even got 8 gigs of ram. With the SSD i would have bought it even though it still would have been a toy mostly because i built myself the smallest possible pi 5 with a pimoroni nvme base with a 3d printed case. I use it as my primary pc despite all its limitations because it is so small, light and efficient and since the wayland update it can play 1080p60 yt smoothly in Chromium or 1440p30. Local Video files in 4K play fine. It handles everyday browsing, loading ebooks to kindle, mail and even music production (pi music and lightwave) reasonably well. And even though n100 machines are the same price in Europe they are often low quality, not very durable and in some cases even infested with chinese spyware and for me personally way to big and heavy and I am well aware of the performance difference. I would buy the new M4 mac mini if i would consider something bigger. I even think about building a nano pc using the cm5 and the waveshare nano b board. The dream would be an all in one device. Either a real OS on a Smartphone with no limitations when plugged into a docking station (similar to Samsung Dex) or I will build a Pi Phone/ Cyberdeck that works reasonably well as a phone. Modern phones have more than enough power IMHO.
"We feel the feature set we've picked for the Pi 500 is the right one" sounds like "We could've done it, and decided that you don't need this."
Love it when a corporation, which Raspberry now is, uses condescension to excuse cheapskating. I had hoped to get this device as my first Pi, but I can't support that attitude. They'd have been better off saying nothing.
It would be pretty easy to make a run of like, 2000 of them with the POE and/or NVME slot and sell it as the Pi505 for $100 or $110. If people want it, they can pay for it and buy it. If they sell well, make another 2000 of them. Or even make it a Tindie or Kickstarter kind of deal where 'If people preorder 5000 of them, we'll make a run and ship them out.'
I love it when people with no idea of what they're talking about make silly statements like yours. I'm sure you have huge experience in making commercial electronics projects for a global audience, so when can we can expect YOUR product to compete with the Raspberry Pi? Will it have everything built in, be faster, more expandable and cost half the price of the Pi, whilst still offering great, long term OS support? No doubt you will also set up an educational charity to run alongside it. Can't wait to see it. 😂🙄
@@another3997 nah bruh you're doing tricks on it that's nasty
@@another3997 It would have been very easy to add an externally accessible M.2 and full size HDMI ports. Around US$5 worth of parts when ordering at scale, and another few seconds on the production line. Raspberry Pi's decision is inexplicable. It'll be interesting to see if they use that same board with a populated M.2 slot and power circuitry in another device.
plenty of alternatives now. I"ve been looking into orange pi.
I find it amusing that the 'the keyboard is the computer' describes the computers I grew up with, it wasn't until I got to college that I encountered a computer with a separate keyboard.
I'd love if Raspberry Pi made a special edition in black with the little rainbow stripe in honor of the ZX Spectrum.
The first computer I remember using was a Mac Plus, and then the first I owned was a 386... I just missed out on that magical time when there were like 10 different radically-different approaches!
Thanks Jeff. I hope that the Pi Foundation add that slot, so that we can get away from being dependent upon a flash card. And I'm waiting for them to ditch that fragile micro HDMI connector which always needs an adapter..
Read through the corp speak. “We wanted to add it but something went wrong at a late stage”
With M.2 and PoE missing I wonder if its a thermal issue, eg too much heat dumped into the case requiring active cooling.
@@zeberto1986 Bingo
That's a shame because something went wrong at a late stage in my wallet. The micro hdmi is also an annoying dealbreaker. why? just why ?
@@zeberto1986 is a simple fan so bad for a raspberry? i cannot see anything wrong with active cooling.
More like we wanted to add it but decided we could make more money on a revision.
I just watched a video of the ancient Atari 800 computer. So ancient most people won't even know what that is. But it had a panel you could pop open to add in more memory. Just slot the cards in, no need to spudge open a case or anything crazy.
I mention this because I feel like in the pursuit of making everything as thin as possible. We've pushed all the functional stuff we really want out of reach. If that keyboard was twice as thick, would you be upset? Would it put you off? It could have easy access to all kinds of things like fully size ports, easy slot in memory/SSD or even usb drives held inside. Maybe I'm out of touch and people do demand thin before features.
Also that power button is where my pinky goes to delete, so that's going to have it turned off way too often. The power should be on the back surely?
The Atari 800 came with 8k of RAM (expandable to 48k at significant cost) and ran a 6502C at 1.79 MHz. It sold for approaching $1000 in the US at release. Expansion or not, you can do a lot more with the Pi 500 (which has a MicroSD card slot rather than another expensive add-on in the form of a floppy drive) for a tenth of the price. And let's not forget, the graphics functionality nowadays is in a completely different class.
I love expandable but it seems likely that NVMe etc. are coming even if they couldn't achieve it in this model, and who's to say that when it does come, the cover won't have an expansion door?
My personal pet hate, which others have called out, is the micro HDMI ports.
@@taliesynd6116 haha I wasn't suggesting the Atari800 was anything anyone would want to use today. I just happened to have watched a video about it and I loved how you could upgrade it without even removing a screw. Given it was so primitive and early on in computing it surprised me. And its something I've always appreciated about my PC. Being able to add to it over many years as parts come along. Also the reason I've never owned a laptop. I don't believe upgradability without tools has to add any expense. In fact I'd argue it makes it cheaper to design. Compare the desktop PC to the laptop. The laptop has to be portable, light as possible. The screen can't be a whopping 30 or 40" beast that desktop users enjoy. And for the same performance you will always pay more for the laptop. Because of the design choices. So designing for the thinnest, lightest isn't cheaper. And with a keyboard that is also a PC I question the choice to make it so thin even the motherboard is a thin strip rather than something that could take up the whole surface area of the keys. Anyway I'm not hitting on the device, I think its pretty great apart from that power button lol Just lamenting everything becoming more device like and aesthetically you'll end up with wires and adaptors hanging out of it to plug in more storage or other peripherals. Where as much of that could have fit inside and looked more pleasing despite being thicker. Just some thoughts but you made me laugh describing the performance of an Atari800. They were pretty awful machines that never sold well but still very cleverly designed I think.
@@ClayMann Yeah I think back to those days (I didn't have an Atari 800, but did have a BBC Microcomputer - which was expandable without taking the lid off, and later issues than mine had a ZIF socket accessible at the left hand side of the keyboard, probably a decent analogy to the currently-missing NVMe socket in the Pi500) and we were so excited to have them, warts and all. When I think about what we complain about in a machine today, we "don't know we are born", as my father would say!
@@taliesynd6116 ah you were a beeb owner! They were built like tanks. I always wanted one after seeing Vince Clark using a BBC to control synths over MIDI. That seemed like something near magical to me at the time. I went down the commodore tree from vic20 to Amiga (and I eventually got my MIDI interface for the Amiga heh). It always disturbs me seeing the math on current speeds of computers are a billion times faster than what I used 30 years ago.
"We feel that the feature set we picked for the Pi 500 is the right one"
I feel they are out of touch with their main customer base.
Also, while I appreciate the power button - putting it on the normal keyboard layout is a design flaw. Especially for dyspraxic people.
Should need Control to be held down as well to stop it being hit my mistake, perhaps this can be done in software?
@@gordon861Or simply make it so you have to hold it for 2 seconds before it turns off
@@thelegendaryklobb2879 It just brings up the shutdown request window. You have to then hit enter to confirm shutdown. You can override a crashed computer by holding down for 10 seconds.
Sadly, it more that many customers want and expect the Pi to be something it isn't meant to be. If you just want a high performance computer with high speed storage and such like, buy a mainstream laptop or desktop PC. It will cost you more, unless you buy used, but it will offer things a Pi doesn't. But the Pi isn't designed to compete with those, it's designed around the flexibility of the GPIO, to be a cheap tinkering and hobbyist machine with 1000s of hardware projects... not as a primary desktop.
@@another3997 Sure, but for £35 you can drastically improve the interactive user performance of the Pi 5 with the official Pi HAT+ with official 256GB SSD.
Back when Pi 1 launched many of us saw it as a possible replacement for expensive network terminals, eg. X terminals, thin clients. It was too slow.
Pi 500 is a very credible replacement for a ChromeOS-style desktop thin client. The very cheap addition of an SSD would have made it substantially more capable for that role.
It'd be great to see a Pi-approved or led server distribution with pre-configured PXE Boot Server, etc., for managing a classroom, a lab, an office, a hotel business centre, etc. A room of Pi 500s with SSDs (so applications could be locally stored), and single power/data/video cable from keyboard to monitor, and single power cable to monitor would be a great and cheap solution, and _they are so close to delivering exactly that._
UA-cam has enabled auto translation of titles and descriptions for your channel, can you turn it off somewhere in the channel settings? It's pretty obnoxious
I have no idea, I've heard of others complaining about this too... seems silly to take the control away from the creator!
@@JeffGeerlingSign in to UA-cam Studio on your computer.
Click Settings   Upload defaults  Advanced settings.
Uncheck the Allow automatic dubbing box.
Click Save.
Yea, yt forces the feature to others but there still isn't an option to disable the ai voice translation in the app, really annoying.
@@JeffGeerlingthere is an option for it somewhere, idk where.
It's especially terrible on mobile, can't change away from the AI translated voice to the original...
A usb c pi 5 would also be incredible (powerd via a single usb c, Ethernet usb and hdmi over the same cable)
I can't believe Raspberry Pi foundation developed their own company-branded NVME SSDs, yet, no slot to add one to the Pi 500. That seems like such a huge missed opportunity, a lot of people buying the 500 would probably just add an SSD to their order if they could slot one in easily.
EDIT: WOW, you really asked them "What was your thought process?", which is a nice way of saying what we're all thinking about that choice, and they stood by their decision to not include less than $.50 in parts that would have added a lot of functionality. Wild.
Where do you get your cost figures from? Which parts and in what quantities? Have you taken into account development of the relevant firmware too? Have you costed the extra to actually produce the fully populated boards? Have you checked minimum order requirements and costed them out? Have you checked component availability and lead times? I'm sure the Raspberry Pi team will benefits from your expert knowledge... they've only been in the business for over a decade, so they obviously have no idea what they're doing. 😂
I wish there were a keyboard dock you could stick a compute module in, like a cartridge. No need to throw away the keyboard, when it gets old. Just slap in a new module and you're up to date.
Was just thinking of the access door for nvme when you mentioned it. Yeah, seems like something they could've done easily if they decided to fully include nvme.
Little bit disappointing that we don't get to have nvme, would've made this a lot more appealing.
Maybe someone can figure out what needs to be populated and make a kit, it won't be an easy kit, definitely some micro soldering experience required.
And the PCB soaks up a lot of heat, making it that much more difficult if you want to hand-solder it. I should probably get a little PCB warmer...
@@JeffGeerling I suspect if Raspberry doesn't do it themselves, someone will offer it as a service to install the M.2 slot. Buying the necessary boards and cables to do this on the Pi5 wasn't cheap either so it might be about the same depending on how much people charge for the soldering job. I'm not sure, just guessing.
The M.2 slot would've made this an instant buy for me. Pi Foundation if you are reading the comments then please make this a thing.
Also, I am worried about that power button location. I can see that button easily being pressed when pressing backspace. Moving it to the side or the back with the other outputs would've probably been a better choice.
And if they do, people will complain that the price is too high, along with all the other things they don't like... all whilst blissfully ignoring the basic fact that the primary goal of the Pi isn't being a typical desktop PC. It's designed to encourage and enable people to use and experiment with a huge variety of external projects, and get people into programming for them etc.
@@another3997 Which they can do on their PC?
I guess we'll have to wait and see if the 600 comes with it, along with other basics. I'm definitely passing on the 500.
Same here. My guess is they wanted to play on the nostalgia of old 90s mac keyboards. But even in the 90s I kept accidentally hitting that button.
I'm more impressed with the display than the 500 personally.
ditto
For home use, nah. I just bought a couple of 1440 monitors for 109 on sale and they are under 150 without being on sale. Now for use in/on a vehicle with the ability to be powered via USB they are worth considering.
Of course there may be a LOT of people out there that live in areas with far more limited options for buying things like monitors or they may have tight power constraints.
I could see them being attractive to somebody living off grid or for somebody building kits to take into areas for disaster relief to set up stations for people to communicate with the outside world with a whole table of gear running off a generator or a few small foldable solar panels. Have a whole computer lab in a hard case complete with power and something like a starlink dish. They are big enough to be readable but low power use and compact enough for something like that.
The display is over priced, comes with no cables, and a damn stupid implementation of VESA. The only thing going for it is that it looks like a Pi monitor.
@@gordon861 - We might also eventually see CAD files for using it as a laptop screen, but there's no point buying a Pi monitor for something that might, possibly, in the future happen.
@@gordon861
I find a lot of the large Pi-branded accessories fall into a similar category.
Over-priced for what they offer.
Notably USB Keyboard and Mouse is 35$ (20+15). Basic versions are half that. Decent enough Wireless keyboards with trackpads start at 25$. 16 & 32gb SD cards are like 10-15$ when you can get trusted brand 64 and 128s for the same price. I do give them a bit more of a pass on the SD cards though, if you are ordering one with Raspbian installed though - even though that's free to download, but it streamlines things if you're getting a fresh machine..
commenting mainly because I appreciate your content and want to feed the algorithm. this is SO DARN CLOSE to being the perfect computer. I genuinely hope they release a "plus" version of this thing!
This is a perfect little thing for an electronics workbench. All you need is to read docs and occasionally run either youtube or other software to look at stuff. I use a Pi 4 and an external monitor for that, but replacing it with a Pi 500 and a monitor for 200 USD? Yes, please
Honestly I've considered using this over at the workbench. It's fit for that purpose.
I would rather have a computer integrated in the monitor and wireless keyboard and mouse. That way I can always move the keyboard when I need to clear the workbench. I also get the benefit of using a keyboard and mouse of my choice.
A Raspberry 500 is always going to have at least two (usb for power and hdmi) cables attached to which will make it harder to move away.
@@henrikkarlsson8522 a Pi5 (or equivalent) with PoE and NVM hats in a semi decent active cooled case velcroed to the back of a monitor would be better than the Pi 500, you even get the bonus of a couple of camera ports so you can keep an eye on your workspace remotely, if set up securely.
@@JeffGeerlingI’ve got a 400 in my basement workshop, mostly for web browsing, playing music while working down there, and as a terminal next to my (currently unused) 3D printer. And just for fun. Similar set-up in my garage workshop but with a pi 4 and pi keyboard
@@henrikkarlsson8522 Two words: PoE PiMac. A monitor like this one with an inbuilt CM5, PoE power (so it's single-cable like a Silicon iMac) and m.2 for performance.
I'd love to test it with a PoE hat and a Pi Monitor... See if 30W is enough. Think you'd need 802.3bt though.
At 9:58, JEFF: just flood that connector with flux, paint over it a couple of times with the soldering iron and some fresh solder, clean it up and it will be AMAZING! Thanks for the video!
I tried that a couple times, but I think the PCB was soaking up all the heat... I should order a PCB heater so I can keep it a bit warmer for a connector like this.
I also ordered some solder paste, using hot air would probably be easier!
OMG all that space and STILL micro hdmi! 🤦
Right now the best solution for roughly the same price would be a Pi Keyboard, a Pi Monitor and a Pi 5 with an NVMe base taped to the back of the monitor. The only thing that'd be missing (over the Pi 500) would be a power button and LED on the keyboard. And, unlike the Pi 500 it'd have PoE, more USB ports, two display/camera connectors, and ample cooling.
A dream product right now would be a Pi 5 case with NVMe base that'd hang from passthroughs for the VESA mounts (allowing a VESA stand), plug into HDMI and power on the monitor with captive connectors or short, neat, routed cables, plus a beefy compliant PSU to power both the monitor and the Pi 5.
Better yet, the same thing but with the 16GB CM5. It wouldn't be hard to design a carrier board for the CM5 with an M.2 slot to add to the back of the monitor.
Commodore 64: I think this is an interesting form factor that might be a good fit.
Sun Microsystems: the network is the computer
Raspberry Pi: how about we go with keyboard again instead. 🙂
Welcome back, ZX Spectrum!
Needs that little color stripe across the bottom right!
Will there be a variant with rubber keys?
It feels like such a clean device should be able to work with less cables attached. Not sure the price hike it would need to have a single USB-C port for power and displayport. Also, too little memory. The pi forums seem to be very against a 16GB option, but for a mini-desktop, it would have been good.
I really liked the pacing and speed of the cuts of this review. Perfect for this kind of video!
I hate RPI for missing necessary features in all over their products
Every time i buy a rpi, it's almost always either overpowered for the simple things i wanted to do,
or don't have enough features or power to do the complex stuff.. that's why esp32 blowing up...
@@vaisakh_km Exactly.. I own two RPi's, two secondhand RPI 4's. They are either way too strong, and overpowered there's no point to using them, or I can't run anything due to the limited ram. I own like.. 20 esp8266's and a couple esp32's, and they are so much more targeted for their usecases and perfect in my projects.
I sometimes also use those RPI RP chips. Pretty useful things for keyboards. Have two in my own split keyboard.
with each iteration it is less excusable.
Yup I've pretty much given up on them at this point. Usually you can either use a cheaper esp32 if you dont need the power, or a cheap N100 if you do need the power, either way both work out to be vastly better products than the stuff being shipped by Raspberry Pi these days. They've completely given up even attempting to act like they care or listen to their customers. Then again, we're no longer their customers, if you don't have a production line or massive B2B business you're second class to them these days.
@@Rick-vm8bl you were never their customers, it’s literally a computer for kids to experiment with
Outstanding video, Jeff! Very informative. And I deeply appreciate that we can always trust you to be honest with your reviews, even about the parts that are disappointing.
When any company uses the words at 3:23, especially when talking to (none other than) Jeff Geerling, it gives me second thoughts about their intentions.
Weird choice not to make this a Compute-Module based product, so ya could upgrade the CPU later. Also one would expect a lil' door on the bottom to access the M.2. slot from the underside without opening the whole case.
They don’t seem to appreciate what they have with those compute modules.
Neat, but the pricing makes no sense...
For $140 you can get an N100 with 16 GB of RAM and a 500 GB NVMe.
In one Pi forum I was told Raspberry Pi is a SBC. That's an important difference to remember. It is 'NOT' a computer that everyone wants, but the one who needs it.
M.2 Slot is absolutely a dealbreaker. A SATA ssd is a great value upgrade for most devices that do not have SSDs.
???? 🤔
If you really want a legacy interface like SATA on a new product, you should use a USB adapter. The bandwidth of a 4 lane M.2 slot is 20 Gb/S versus 6 for SATA. You also need to add a PCIe to SATA controller chip, the power supply for that chip, and a serial e2prom for the controller's firmware which cost more and teke extra PCB space. It's a lose-lose.
I'm glad to see this finally came out. I figure this will be great to help teach my daughter computer land stuff. Too bad on the nvme port. I would happily pay a little extra if they added that in officially.
The CM5 just came out and now the Pi500 is out?! That's crazy cause it took years to get the Pi 4 versions of both products.
pre pandemic supply chains are running again :)
Blame COVID and supply chain shortages for those delays.
well, covid is to blame, dont forget about pi4 release date
right now broadcom is not having any production problems or the rest of component pi suppliers so it came to be faster
but tbh i expect a new pit for next year, more cpu power and more cores
@4:44 Please look into colorblind friendly chart colors. These two in particular look exactly the same to my eyes.
Why oh why didn't they use the compute module 5... 😢
I think that would have been a great upgradeable little machine.
This would be awesome, make it more useful over a longer period of time.
RPF just can't get past the throw-away mindset, can they? Sad.
@@JeffGeerling You have a lot of influence, maybe it's possible to get an upgrade board for the Raspberry Pi 400, with a CM module, and add a full hdmi port 😁
who says they will release a cm6 with the same connector, that is not guaranteed to happen
Costs and thickness probably - the CM connectors are for a single component rather expensive and if memory serves are about 1mm thick between the carrier board and the computer module, so add in the thickness of the PCB for the CM as well that is a pretty solid around 2mm of extra bulge...
Another perfect review. It's good to see the pie guys moving forward. I like those portable monitors
Looks like there is something more in the works for that mainboard. We'll just have to wait and see what RaspberryPi has in store for the future.
Thanks for the like Jeff.
Excellent video and article, Jeff. Harkens to the old days of tech journalism.
You young whippersnappers. My TRS-80 Model 1 had the whole computer inside the computer!
I really love the idea of the Pi X00 form factor as super-clean terminal/casual use PCs, but I can't help but think that this is only like 90% of the way there.
Seeing that unpopulated POE section on the board is heartbreaking, since that was possibly my most-missed feature from the Pi 400 (I bought one with the intention of trying out NFS booting, and POE power would make the whole thing basically single-cable aside from video out). HDMI that's not full-size is also a major bummer.
If somebody made a mini PC with POE and like an N100/N150 built into a proper mechanical keyboard for
After all these years of buying Raspberry Pis I really don't see a reason in purchasing the 500. The pi 400 was an excellent value proposition but at $120 for the full kit I can get one of those $100 mini PCs, an Amazon keyboard and mouse combo and have significantly better experience in day to day use. I really expected it to be at the same price as the 400 😅 silly me
RPi 400 is just over 4 years old. Using the inflation calculator websites, from Nov 2020 to October 2024, $70 becomes $85. So really, it's about 10% more expensive, at most, for A LOT of improvements. Seems pretty fair to me. Though I do hate the micro HDMI ports, I wish they wouldn't exist.
Also, this isn't solely focused in being a generic PC. Does your $100 mini PC come with 40 pins of GPIO ? With a custom led on the keyboard ? These are rather small things, but they add up. For some, they matter. Also is your mini PC + Amazon keyboard and mouse just as compact as RPi 400/500 ? There's tradeoffs.
@@Winnetou17absolutely no one is going to be using those GPIOs in this format.
There could be 2 reasons why the M2 slot is missing:
1. It is an option for a later more expensive model
2. They made something wrong and the M2 option will not work.
Oh man. Someone gave me a rpi400, and I love that thing. I put batocera on it and it's fantastic for playing old games. I don't use the built-in keyboard though... just a wireless joystick. It sits under the living room TV and it's the best game console I've ever had. Totally silent, barely uses any power at all, and it plays pretty much any console or arcade game up to 2000 and any handheld up to 2005, complete with shaders and rewind and fast-forward and stuff. If I ever upgrade though, I wouldn't want a rpi500... I'd rather just use a cheap Linux mini PC like a N100 or similar.
If you’re not using the keyboard then it’s pointless. A pi 4 or 5 would have worked just as well.
@@kirishima638 Well, yeah. I'm using it because someone gave it to me. The benefit is that it was free, has all the parts included, and can be turned on/off with a button press instead of having to ssh in or plug a cable. The keyboard works well enough for OS install, but for actual daily use I'd plug in one of my QMK keyboards. I'd be better off with a rpi5 with a power button, case, and power supply... but for the price, a cheap N100 would work even better. Raspberry Pi has been a fantastic platform, from the beginning up to rpi4... but it's hard to justify a rpi5 since a cheap mini PC runs a lot faster for the same price, at about the same size, and uses only a little bit more power.
@@kirishima638 Well, yeah. I wouldn't have _bought_ it because other items would work better for me. But as a gift, it has been fun. Basically everything up to psx and gba runs perfectly, so it lets me play 10,000+ games.
Yeah, this was an instabuy for me. It's a very welcome upgrade on my Pi400, which I still love. The Pi400 will continue to live on as an arm64 build machine for my projects when the Pi500 replaces it as my new desktop.
I'm really surprised they didn't make it cmu based. The poe based would have been nice for a school system so one cable and boom you are done
Had a pair of 400's for all of 2 weeks a few years back. They were great, however, I lost them in a house fire and have never gotten around to replacing them with more important things to replace. I really liked them and was great for on the go with other portable pieces.
Edit: Even at that price, in Canada, when I saw this video, it was an automatic instant buy for me. I loved those 400s for the short time I had them and seeing the 500 being a, relative, heavy weight compared to the previous version is more than enough to convince me to get the 500 by itself. If not one or two full kits.
I eagerly await finding out who you will be next time 10:06
Jeff: "The world has moved on from the C64"
Me: "Hold the phone!"
- Actually, you got me there. My SX-64 has a separate keyboard. doh!
-> Jokes aside, an RPi tablet in similar form factor to Galaxy Tab / M$ Surface with same type of keyboard setup (and user accessible M.2 trapdoor slot) _and_ access to GPIO pins would be awesome.
Buttons above the backspace button are the bane of my life
POWER button above backspace!!!
This is gonna be so infuriating!
@@sharpfang exactly my thoughts, i will be rebooting every 5 minutes xD
@@ClunkyCreations I have this on my macos keyboard with lock, i tend to lock my machine every time i wanna backspace... tempted to mod it to remove the button its so annoying
@@Queekusme 3D-print a hinged cover, the sort used on self-destruct buttons ;)
@ haha maybe, don’t have a printer yet
Maybe Ill actually build the mechanical keyboard version of one of these finally. That keyboard ribbon cable makes it look too easy.
Insert "DO IT" meme here.
So maybe wait for the M2 slot.
Probably be quicker to wait for a third party to use the compute module to make a NUC-like with NVME. ethernet and full size HDMI.
@@gordon861 did anyone do that using the cm4?
@@disasterincarnate No but the CM4 was like hens teeth to find due to everything else that was going on.
The CM5 should be easier to find. But the other option is a Pi5 and 'Argon NEO 5 M.2 NVME PCIE Case for Raspberry Pi 5' for $40. Which takes full size M.2 rather than the cut down versions from the official Pi source.
@@disasterincarnate they even smashed it into a PSP shell, you can easily find the PCB with a bunch of USB ports, proper HDMI and m2 port, it's what everybody wanted and it sold best
Like the ZX Spectrum, the Amiga 500, Commodore 64, Atari 400, Sord M5, Oric 1 etc etc etc in the 80s
0:48 In my book, the power key doesn’t belong close to a frequently used key, such as the backspace one. From a usability POV, it should be offset from regular keys, maybe placed at the back or the side if space is an issue.
Thanks for sharing! The PI500 seems ideal for schools. Its security cable and 'bring your own SD card' setup make it easy to manage in a shared school lab environment. It's truly plug-and-play. Best Regards
The lack of NVMe doesn't bother me, but the fact that it's CPU is weaker than a budget smartphone and it doesn't have USB-C video output (instead uses micro HDMI) is a huge turnoff.
Really hoping they make a revision of this, or for some competitor to start making in-keyboard PCs.
They would sell far more of the monitor if they paired both devices witht USB-C video. Amazing bad decision.
Considering N100 mini PCs are going for around $150 with performance, flexibility, and connectivity that blow this thing out of the water, the 500 is a swing and a miss from Raspberry Pi.
And I was waiting for a 500 to drop to buy one too!
After pi 500 there will be pi 600 and then pi 1200
Exactly and cheaper than a Mac Mini at $599
No its 500 then 1200 then 600
oh my god, youtube started again with the automatic translated audio, very cool feature but i'd rather watch it with the original one. translated to spanish with that ai voice sounds so weird(i'm from argentina), i wish youtube didn't automatically put the audio and instead put a callout or a text indicating that you can change the audio language
changing the subject, i've been waiting for raspberry to release the pi 500 for a very long time, so much so, that i watched that explaining computers pi500 maker video like 5 times!! excellent video as always, Jeff
Yeah I hate the auto translate thing... would rather that be an option someone can click on rather than automatic!
@@JeffGeerling yeah, i guess it's just another installment of youtube trying to force features into people who don't need it
Apple imac has a computer inside a monitor. Comodor 64 and pi500 has computer inside keyboard. What's next? Computer inside mouse?
ha, should do it for the memes!
I do have a computer inside a phone 🤯
that already exists
@@JeffGeerling not only appl iMac all other all in one pc are monitor with built in computer. And I think some UA-camr allready built computer in a mouse two times.
@@arch1107 yes. I know.
The concept reminds me, concept-wise, of my old beloved Amiga 500. Maybe a homage?
Seriously, why hasn't raspberry pi made their own laptop yet? I adore the old-school wedge computer form factor but a laptop with the same internals would be much more practical.
I like the idea but the soc on the Pis isn't really designed with the suspend states you'd expect for a laptop. It would simply drain too much power.
Is there a compelling reason to get this over a minipc that has better specs for around the same price, or within 20-30 dollars?
GPIO and KB is the only thing I can think of
Commodore 500 0:12
How do we get a 12 hour battery set up on this baby?
Would have been an instant buy, the lack of m.2 sucks. May look into it if I can find hi-res pictures of the pcb space for the missing component pads. Can probably zoink parts from work.
"Jeff keeps harping..." well done on the chapter titles
Subtitles and chapter markers are always a fun bit I get to work on that very few appreciate!
This feels like a poorly thought out release, I know that sounds harsh but the unpopulated m.2, STILL using micro hdmi knowing full well nobody wants it (theres plenty of space for full fat hdmi there, why...just...why?!). Add to that the price increase and this just feels like a moneygrab more than a thought out product. It's like they didn't even listen to customer feedback at all.
Also seriously how much are we talking to slap a door on the bottom of the plastic casing and add the components for the m.2. Even if they launched with it disabled and a promise of future support it would've made the price increase understandable.
considering the inspiration for the pi400 and pi500 is the old 16bit Amiga computers which had a trapdoor slot underneath for quickly adding accelerators or ram expansions so you didnt have to fully open the computers up, then i am simply amazed they didnt do the same thing for an M.2 feature on both the pi400 or this new pi500.
Have to say, this red-and-white combination of the display and keyboard looks absolutely stunning.
Why would I buy this over a mini-pc? You do have to spend more for a N100 but it’s more performant in all regards. The Pi Foundation is off course. The existing user base is what’s keeping them afloat. It’s going to be slow death be attrition as users slowly migrate to better SBC options.
@9:09 or rpi 500 mainboard for a Framework 13 chassis? ... that'll be something.
A carrier board for a CM5 would probably be a better choice
Not a dealbreaker? To me it is, even if this is an awesome platform to tinker with!
I have a PI5 attached to the back of a monitor, with an integral Pineberry HatDrive running a 500GB M.2 drive. Also added a USB hub which I stuck to the base of the monitor. Works great, and I can use my favorite keyboard.
Allow me to translate the PR talk. "We didn't include the M.2 slot so that we could upcharge for a model that does have it later".
They've release a dozen products this last month, maybe in the rush before Christmas, and m 2 slot wasn't possible. Also the resulting price bump would make it less appealing to casual buyers. This isn't for power users
Looks so good. If additionally they added a trackpad and had a switch to make it expose itself as a usb_gadget keyboard/mouse/hub combo, it could be the ultimate remote/embedded diagnostic tool.
No sleep Jeff?
Pretty much this. lol
Sending an anticipated apology to Eben Upton and his team, but that statement at 3:30 is *so patronising it irks me* .
The whole gist of the Raspberry ecosystem is to make even the most Average of users want to tinker, mod and develop. Getting your grubby hands inside the Pi500 is a given, besides, one used to open and work on older Microcomputers as well, why not this one?
I would have passed on the lack of M.2 as a minor gripe, but after that statement, and with the price bump, I think it has become a dealbreaker. That and no full size HDMI which is just asinine.
"We feel the feature set we've picked for the Pi 500 is the right one." Boo.
And that's why I won't be buying one. A Pi 5 AIO needs faster, integrated storage that's more than just an SD card. Full stop.
Otherwise, just having a keyboard isn't compelling enough when I could just get an equally cheap keyboard and a Pi5 which _can_ easily have NVME storage added.
What they've made is just a faster 400 for people already satisfied with the 400 form factor. With a power button.
0:47 The power button has no place as part of the keyboard ( on any PC ).
Unfortunately, refurbished 24" monitors for less than $100 CAD make the Pi Monitor look like a poor value. It feels a bit like Raspberry Pi has lost their original value proposition of an economical, entry-level, hacker-friendly, education-friendly devices.
Refurbished is a different value proposition, especially since those monitors aren't portable with a kickstand. I have a few, and they're great, and some of the panels are even nicer (plus it's neat to have DisplayPort, a better stand, etc.), but that's like comparing apples and oranges.
If you're a school district speccing out a maker lab or something, this seems like it would fit that well.
Or a display you could slide in and out of a rack for a homebrew KVM.
The CM5 Development kit seems a better buy, albeit you need a keyboard and mouse, but you get the NVME M.2 board and a case with all the ports
Micro hdmi, non-working m.2, no POE, wtf are they smoking.
about the poe, it is not a function a person starting with pcs will ever use, a normal pi or a pi cm5 would use such option, but a desktop pc inside a keyboard is not likely to ever use it, and add the components to never be used is a waste of time and money in design and components, a person on a normal home will have access to a usb charger and that is what you connect here
now i ask, what are you smoking to imagine poe will be everywhere, have you seen the price of a poe switch? the person buying a pi500 cant pay that
Great video again Jeff. Little sad about the price bump.
Sorry, that is **NOT** the right location for a power button. If the power button is placed anywhere near my formatting keys linearly with the board, it's a fail. One errant backspace and you're shutting down right in the middle of your document. Companies need to stop this.
There are ways to change a power button's behavior in the OS settings (set to suspend or make it do nothing), but yea, that is a fail (especially as a cat owner).
Really sorry for them that the Orangepi 5 plus exist. Can be had with up to 32GB of RAM, has M.2 on board as well as a second m.2 for WiFi of your choice. There are a pair of full sized HDMI ports and an HDMI input as well as a USBC port, two USBA 2.0, two USBA 3.0 ports, and a 1Gb ethernet port. It is a screamer. Only down side is the lack of developer support. It is a good deal more costly than a pi, but having both, the orangepi 5 plus runs circles around the Raspberry.