Why not combine the two? let one build static pressure to cool minor components and other be energy efficient for air flow over the fins? Also, macbook air cools everything through chasis. So, reasonable to expect compartmentalized machines where everything that's not actively cooled gets to use laptop body as passive radiator and heatpipes from CPU/GPU use this solution to cool effectively, Potential to integrate this is endless if not for the commercial/IP/scale challenges.
Use it as a haptic feedback device and fan at the same time ;)
2 години тому+423
For anyone who is curious about the reupload: I watched the whole old clip and there were a lot of `missing media` screen, potentially when he was trying to show some figures.
exactly this is nothing new its just not practical dust particles can get attracted to this as charged particles lol this will just be a charged comb with hair sucking every little debreies
I love your enthusiasm about ionic thrust! Thats exactly how I feel about it honestly. Have to say, your breakdown on this topic is phenomenal. I've had viewers for years ask about using ionic thrust in computer cooling and i've personally advocated against it, as ionic thrust still tends to have ionic residuals, which can interact with sensitive components. Apparently ventiva has worked to reduce this? Great video!
The piezoelectric cooler might not have as high a CFM per watt, but it pushes the air with a high force overcoming the lamination effects a fan has, and thus you need less CFM to cool the same amount.
If I remember correctly, Plasma channel showed that either the anode or the cathode (I don't remember which one) gets consumed and needs to be replaced after a while. Curious to see how Dell solves this issue.
This is literally how ionic thrusters work in space lol. And heat removal is not equal to airflow, and vice versa. You can have very efficient radiant cooling with no fans, and you can have extremely inefficient active cooling even with large amounts of airflow.
@@agiverreviga4592 I don’t think it will be Alienware cause gpus need much more cooling and this does not seem provide a ton of airflow. XPS makes the most sense since this tech will be expensive so it will go in their high end laptops.
XPS does make the most sense. As in an Alienware, everything is about cooling, not sound. And like he said they are not as good in cooling per watt, but for a XPS? Better performance and the sound of a fan less PC? XPS all the way!
Ozone generation is not the only consideration. NOx are formed as well, much more toxic and, even worse, corrosive towards copper heat exchangers (a.k.a. radiators). Question is, how much will it produce?
@@hectoraccented5312okay that Is an issue. But dusting your rig is standard. It would just have to be upfront and honest in the manual. If it's fully silent i feel like customers would at least understand pros of cons of getting that model. Ya know assuming it hits mass market idk.
@@gir240 dude, they dont let you open laptops without getting politics involved. what dream are you dreaming, there is no way they are telling you to dust fans.
Instead of redesigning everything to use one new fan, how about using the old fan to build static pressure while using the new fan to dissipate the heat.
Interesting tech. Honestly still worried about the ozone issue. Feels like they treated it as an afterthought. Just hope this tech is going to be safe and repair friendly.
@superslimanoniem4712 degradation of plastic as well, on the other hand it'll help get rid of microbes, so that's nice I guess. Also what happens when you get dust stuck in there, and it shorts the stuff out?
Feel like Dave conveyed too much trust to companies and waved his hand over it. Surely if a company is doing it, that means it's safe 😀👍. as if companies haven't prioritized profit/hype over safety. It's early days for the tech for sure, but I would appreciate some skepticism from reviewers.
I don't think comparing energy to air volume per time is completely the same as energy to heat removal. With piezoelectric coolers they are able to hit really high pressures, meaning they can remove a lot more heat with much less volume. Like, a breeze outside could be thousands of CFM, but obviously a CPU would overheat. Only the air in contact with the surface you're trying to cool is what matters, and the higher the pressure, the less volume you need. If you had infinite pressure, you'd only need one atom's width of air to cool something.
I guess the old one failed due to vibration not to energy consumption, and this one will fail too due to static pressure, and don’t forget these companies are trying to patent the hell out of these tiny products a massive uphold for mass adoption
Can you imagine the multiple iterations of this tech in the near future? With how small it is even smartphones may benefit from this solid state cooling tech.
You know there must have been many iterations for the tech to come to this stage. I'm pretty sure the concept has been know for years. (Haven't looked for evidence yet though. It just sounds familiar)
Kind of overhyping it. Ionizing air is not new technology and i reckon it will improve thermals slightly on systems where passive cooling such as conduction and convection would already be fairly sufficient. Edit: UA-camr Integza played around with this 2 years ago to create a bladeless fan, a fun watch!
I guess that makesense. One of the biggest hindering thing about gaming laptops is the need for big fans inside. If you advance the tech they can finally become slimmer.
Frore's thing is actually pretty efficiant. Cooling isnt just about total air-volume its about how much HEAT is actually being moved. Frore's device can saturate the air with the heat on-top of having enough pressure to handle the restrictions in mobile devices.
plus one of the main strenghts of frore's product is its EXTREMELY low maintanance requirement, making it suitable for use in applications where you can not easily change out the entire unit. Both technologies have their places. I only fear that ventiva's product will output so much ionized air that static charge becomes an issue.
Fun fact: satellites sometimes use a similar tech to create thrust. It is very efficient, sadly the force produced is very low hence space applications are ideal because you don't need too much thrust (you "don't" have gravity)
Bladeless magnetic ionized fans have been around in the mining industry since the 1970s for emergency airflow situations in, and supplemental airflow in conjunction with overcast/undercasts for decades. They were used when the working area was too far away from the intake or exhaust fan to have proper airflow especially in Shaft or slope mining operations that were miles away from the fan or for longwall mining. I was always surprised no one tried this before now, but I always thought that maybe it was because of the size and it being so small that it would be hard to produce or the magnetization would not be at an acceptable level in a few millimeters of width. Sometimes industrial level technology can't be scaled down because of output losses but this seems like a great idea. Its time the computer industry started looking at new way of doing things since computers haven't really changed in their fundamentals since the 1980s. Fans are a good start to rethinking the computing paradigm.
From what I remember one of the benefits of the frore was it had extremely high back pressure. There is also another company that is working on what is essentially a mini version of frore cooler for mobile devices.
It is presented here as if it were a new invention, but this technology has been used by companies for years. You can even see it often on UA-cam in fun projects. At the beginning, so much emphasis is placed on CFM, but at the very end of the video the information about static pressure is provided. Whether a cooling system works well depends on many things, not just CFM. There is no information here on how many watts of thermal power can be dissipated in an actual product.
The more Dave talks about this tech, the more I want Dyson or some other home-cooling company to make a metal block that just attaches to the ceiling and generates wind. Maybe one day
it was called the Ionic Breeze, it's quite old, not sure if they even make them any more. I had one in my room as a kid as an air filter and it was decent
had one back in the 90s /early 2000.. caused statics on everything.. in a room full of smokers would resulted in the elements got covered with brown goey stuff
Perhaps it's important to remember that a "fan" is just movement that is seemingly coming from "nothing" but is in fact an application of electromagnetism that this new fan technology doesn't deviate THAT far from. I'm super excited to see what other products can make use of this type of airflow generation. My hope is that it can be used in living spaces, whether it's something like a simple desk fan or to make air conditioning in homes and commercial buildings more accessible. When these "too good to be true" technologies come out I'm always skeptical but it's fun to imagine the amount of noise pollution that would be reduced if this is the real deal.
So according to the data from Ventiva, their stuff has only 10% lower power consumption but then a whole third (25-33%) less airflow per watt. Surely a big jump from the AirJet but still nothing to replace fans with. Especially since modern laptop fans, especially on those extremely low power levels, are basically silent as well.
Dave2D: The guy who is able to summarize whole product review videos within 5-7 minutes. Here with 14 minutes about a small component that goes inside a laptop. That alone tells you all how big this is! (if Dave's infectious fascination already did not :))
Dude, this looks to be just a miniaturised version of a fanless air purifier / deodoriser. These used to be often found in ex japanese imported cars. It generates ozone that basically binds to compounds that are generally smelly. So likely same will happen here and not the best to breath if in a confined space. Still pretty nice.
Plasma Channel has been making prototypes of essentially this, but for use as a thruster rather than a cooling fan. The tech definitely works and it's very cool - great to see a laptop integration!
Ionizing tower fans have been around for years. They use the same principle for moving air, so the technology is not new at all, just shrunk to fit a particular application. A definite down side is the necessary periodic cleaning of the wire to maintain efficiency, because the wire will slowly accumulate a coating of crud from the air passing through it. Many people are sensitive to ozone, and should not use this thing.
Until this very day, Dave is pretty much the only UA-camr who actually gets excited about tech, most people seem so bored and just repeat the same stuff over and over, and here's Dave. I've been watching since wayyy before, and always come back to watch pretty much everything he releases
No moving parts does not necessarily mean that it lasts longer. The high voltage can be a big stress in the electronics of the fan, but also can mean a lot of noise that the other Components need to endure. Similar to good quality LED lights. The LEDs themselves rarely fail, but often it's the driver circuitry.
Since these are so thin, I can imagine that they might solve the static pressure issue by having them angled upwards, so that they can directly suck the air from the bottom and then to the back and up, without having to bend it 90 degrees. Alternatively, they could flow the air through the corners of the laptop so it doesn't have to go through its entire length/width.
I'm glad to see two of my main questions about this addressed - ionization and static pressure. Not that creating ozone is all that bad (forests ar echock full of ozone, and being in forest air over time has plenty of positive health benefits), but it's still good to keep ozone generation intentional. The static pressure issue is definitely more concerning, not only for the reasons mentioned, but also because it severely limits heatsink thickness and density, which is the main positive with shrinking cooling solutions (alongside more room for batteries I guess, but many small laptops today are already hitting the max for taking on flights, so...). I guess the solution here would be more coolers spread out, though that again comes into conflict with I/O - so this likely won't be a very suitable solution for high powered gaming laptops. Still, assuming it works with moderate sized heatsinnks there could be some very compact mid-tier laptops coming in the near future, especially if AMD's Strix Halo chips perform well. Now we just need to see them also ensure proper safety for servicing and cleaning around the high voltage components involved in this, and this could be pretty cool.
So...they just miniaturised the plasma channel's prototype🤣 "Stark built this in a CAVE, from a box of SCRAPS" "But sir, I'm not Tony Stark...HOWEVER, we managed to make his design smaller so it less noisy" "Oh...ok. Well, good job I guess."
That actually look promising! Not as energy efficient as a fan, sure, for its first generation! Can't wait to see how they will improve their design to increase the static pressure as well as make it more energy efficient.
The gabs in the keybard are not for airflow...there is literally a full metal plate behind them. No air can flow there. It also wouldnt make sense to vent hot air out of the KEYBOARD. The gaps are there for manufacturing reasons and to allow some wiggle room during keystrokes. The top "vent" on this specific Zenbook is also just decorative. There is no airflow out of this area, its just there for looks.
There's a world of difference in cost to manufacture fans with moving parts vs standard power boards and a metal bracket. I really think these things will be much cheaper than fans when they hit scale.
The other one wasn't aimed at cooling a notebook but at cooling an IC inside a cell phone. This one is nice, also - but I think they have different application.
Flow and satic preasure are 2 very different issues. These provide virtually no pressure, which is needed to push air through a heatsink or enclosures. Hence why this test is in open air.
It’s not really new technology though, they make large commercial versions of this already. The main problems with trying to use this in a laptop is that they attract dust like nothing else and they also produce a fair bit of electrical noise.
This (similar) is already used in the B-2 bomber to achieve extra flying heights where the air density is not enought to lift the plane itself. Million volts charged on the leading edge of the wings.
What's your source for this info? MIT made an airplane powered by ionic thrust but it was extremely low powered. If there's a million volts on the leading edge of the B-2 bomber, I think it would be the result of flying through the air rather than means to propel the aircraft. Many aircraft have spikes on the edge of wings to dissipate static charge. I'm not aware of any crewed aircraft using static charge as a thrust device.
Can’t wait for apple to pick this technology up in a decade and spend 30 minutes explaining how they invented this big breakthrough 🤣 But for real though, I want this in my mac, MacBook, ipad and mac mini asap
@@idontmindu @ MBP gets a bit loud at times. It makes sense to put it in the air too since its silent and small so it won’t affect form factor put helps with performance. It would be cool on the ipad especially since it gets a little hot sometimes. I use mine a lot for emulation when I travel for work and it gets quite hot when emulating bigger titles.
This is not a new technology. This was used in home air purifiers. It's a new application for the process, but the technology itself is well established.
I dont remeber where i saw this tech first but it was possibly well over a year ago, I wondered how long it might take for it to start being put in things like laptops. Im so very happy its getting close to being launched. Once this tech becomes widely available I cant even imagine how far it could go when the whole world of sciensts get their teeth into it! Oh and another thing, no moving parts means potentially no wear!
I hope Apple is deep in investigating things like this. Smaller packages for the airflow, or else adding some amount of airflow to passive devices like the MacBook Air and avoiding throttling without a moving fan.
@@idontmindu That’s what he means when he mentions that it’s a passive device. Passively cooled. Using the aluminum body as a radiant heatsink through convection. It does not have forced air movement anywhere to greatly multiply the efficiency of the radiant passive heatsink. (the laptop body) The laptop is completely silent this way, however, once the body becomes warm it does not remove heat efficiently enough to allow the processors to continue to be run at their maximum frequency due to overheating, so when the body becomes warm and the processors reach a heightened temp, they begin to throttle the operating frequency down (slowing the processors) to maintain that maximum operating temperature, where as in a forced induction cooling system, the fan would spin up to keep the processor cool and allow it to continue to work at its highest frequency (fastest) by being actively cooled by a fan, instead of being passively cooled through radiant convection from the aluminum body of the laptop, which acts as the laptop’s heat-exchanger.
The company working with Ventiva, Compal, manufacturers hardware for Dell, HP, and Apple. So it will, eventually be in at least 2 of those companies. I have a feeling the Apple engineers might be smart enough (or nefarious enough) to recognize that ionized air damages plastics and rubbers, and wouldn't be dumb enough to put that into a piece of tech containing plastics and rubbers. (or smart enough TO put it in, knowing its putting a hard expiry date on their expensive hardware)
We already have issues with devices overheating by getting smaller and with less efficient cooling solutions and fans. This not being able to such air will just means more overheating problems. I doubt consumers will buy this product until real world scenarios are shown.
This tech is absolutely incredible and I think it will change the industry
It can. :D
I wonder if laminar flow (as in dyson fans) can solve the CFM problem you mentioned towards the end.
Next-Gen Ionic Plasma Thruster Inspired By Nature (BTC Mark 3)
Just some Dyson stuff
Why not combine the two? let one build static pressure to cool minor components and other be energy efficient for air flow over the fins? Also, macbook air cools everything through chasis. So, reasonable to expect compartmentalized machines where everything that's not actively cooled gets to use laptop body as passive radiator and heatpipes from CPU/GPU use this solution to cool effectively, Potential to integrate this is endless if not for the commercial/IP/scale challenges.
@ravishah2255 yep. Or why not make it circular to get an air multiplier effect as in bladeless fans?
imagine replacing the Steam Deck's fan with this.
IMAGINE REPLACING THE FRAMEWORK LAPTOP'S FAN WITH THIS.
jesus the FW16 has the most random hurricane fan showdowns of all time.
or any laptop fan while you're at it.
Hyped tech as usual smh
Use it as a haptic feedback device and fan at the same time ;)
For anyone who is curious about the reupload: I watched the whole old clip and there were a lot of `missing media` screen, potentially when he was trying to show some figures.
Thx 🫡
same me too, i watched it as well and it showed missing media in variour language.
@@alexa-vw4krthats how premiere pro works
How did you watch it back if he removed it ?
meanwhile at Plasma Channel
exactly this is nothing new its just not practical dust particles can get attracted to this as charged particles lol this will just be a charged comb with hair sucking every little debreies
I came here to say this, but I knew in my heart that it had already been said...
My first thought.
man discovers ion thrusters.
I literally thought of how it could work in a laptop when watching their videos. Hope they get some credits.
I love your enthusiasm about ionic thrust! Thats exactly how I feel about it honestly. Have to say, your breakdown on this topic is phenomenal. I've had viewers for years ask about using ionic thrust in computer cooling and i've personally advocated against it, as ionic thrust still tends to have ionic residuals, which can interact with sensitive components. Apparently ventiva has worked to reduce this? Great video!
The goat is here
the man himself is here
it's just a prototype, relax
I was thinking about you the whole video. And damn, here you are!
I came to mention your video on this project. Guess you beat me to it 😂
At 6:01 I think it is written Dell on that surface
hell yeah
reupload #2 coming up
Yeah even i see it. Great observation.
lmao good eye
Nice eye!
The piezoelectric cooler might not have as high a CFM per watt, but it pushes the air with a high force overcoming the lamination effects a fan has, and thus you need less CFM to cool the same amount.
1) Ionic thrusters suffer quite a bit of material degradation.
2) There is a chance of electric shock if not properly gaurded.
If I remember correctly, Plasma channel showed that either the anode or the cathode (I don't remember which one) gets consumed and needs to be replaced after a while. Curious to see how Dell solves this issue.
Maybe over-provisioning the consumable parts to last a decent amount of time?
Probably just your typical "design to fail in a few years and the user buys a new one."
@@takanara7 The Apple method
This is literally how ionic thrusters work in space lol. And heat removal is not equal to airflow, and vice versa. You can have very efficient radiant cooling with no fans, and you can have extremely inefficient active cooling even with large amounts of airflow.
So it will be on a dell xps? I see the dell logo at 6:00
Why did you assume XPS imemdiately? I doubt they will put it there first. Either Alienware or some more unknown budget model
@@agiverreviga4592 or why not an Inspiron or Latitude?
@@agiverreviga4592 I don’t think it will be Alienware cause gpus need much more cooling and this does not seem provide a ton of airflow. XPS makes the most sense since this tech will be expensive so it will go in their high end laptops.
XPS does make the most sense. As in an Alienware, everything is about cooling, not sound. And like he said they are not as good in cooling per watt, but for a XPS? Better performance and the sound of a fan less PC? XPS all the way!
Dell SEX-PS
Ozone generation is not the only consideration. NOx are formed as well, much more toxic and, even worse, corrosive towards copper heat exchangers (a.k.a. radiators). Question is, how much will it produce?
and it not just toxicity - a tiny bit of ozone causes everything in the room to rust like crazy.
We used to have full size floor fans made from this technology. They require constant cleaning because they attract dust
That is a problem
@@hectoraccented5312okay that Is an issue. But dusting your rig is standard. It would just have to be upfront and honest in the manual. If it's fully silent i feel like customers would at least understand pros of cons of getting that model. Ya know assuming it hits mass market idk.
Mmmmm Ozone
@@gir240 dude, they dont let you open laptops without getting politics involved. what dream are you dreaming, there is no way they are telling you to dust fans.
So like a normal fan?
Instead of redesigning everything to use one new fan, how about using the old fan to build static pressure while using the new fan to dissipate the heat.
Forget the fan, that smoke maker is awesome! 0:26
Interesting tech. Honestly still worried about the ozone issue. Feels like they treated it as an afterthought. Just hope this tech is going to be safe and repair friendly.
Even if it wouldn't be a health concern, I feel like it could cause corrosion of metal parts over long term?
@superslimanoniem4712 that is why laptops need to be made out of paper bags
@superslimanoniem4712 degradation of plastic as well, on the other hand it'll help get rid of microbes, so that's nice I guess. Also what happens when you get dust stuck in there, and it shorts the stuff out?
@superslimanoniem4712 that is why laptops need to made out of paper bags actually.
Feel like Dave conveyed too much trust to companies and waved his hand over it. Surely if a company is doing it, that means it's safe 😀👍. as if companies haven't prioritized profit/hype over safety. It's early days for the tech for sure, but I would appreciate some skepticism from reviewers.
I don't think comparing energy to air volume per time is completely the same as energy to heat removal. With piezoelectric coolers they are able to hit really high pressures, meaning they can remove a lot more heat with much less volume. Like, a breeze outside could be thousands of CFM, but obviously a CPU would overheat. Only the air in contact with the surface you're trying to cool is what matters, and the higher the pressure, the less volume you need. If you had infinite pressure, you'd only need one atom's width of air to cool something.
Great insight
Interesting
I guess the old one failed due to vibration not to energy consumption, and this one will fail too due to static pressure, and don’t forget these companies are trying to patent the hell out of these tiny products a massive uphold for mass adoption
Can you imagine the multiple iterations of this tech in the near future? With how small it is even smartphones may benefit from this solid state cooling tech.
Seems like very promising tech, definitely looking forward to it being applied well.
Yeah and arm chips don't even get that hot
You know there must have been many iterations for the tech to come to this stage. I'm pretty sure the concept has been know for years. (Haven't looked for evidence yet though. It just sounds familiar)
@@sebastianjost lol it's a static nightmare it'll suck every tiny fabric or hair particles like a charged comb
@@sebastianjost not new tech in the slightest the plasma channel has some great ionic thrusters he has made for example
Sorry for being pedantic but "1 watt of energy" is incorrect.
Watt is a unit of Power.
Watt.Hour is a unit of energy.
Physics 2 enjoyer
Obligatory 🤓Comment
Wait a minute... you're not sorry at all!
Kind of overhyping it. Ionizing air is not new technology and i reckon it will improve thermals slightly on systems where passive cooling such as conduction and convection would already be fairly sufficient.
Edit: UA-camr Integza played around with this 2 years ago to create a bladeless fan, a fun watch!
I guess that makesense. One of the biggest hindering thing about gaming laptops is the need for big fans inside. If you advance the tech they can finally become slimmer.
Frore's thing is actually pretty efficiant.
Cooling isnt just about total air-volume its about how much HEAT is actually being moved. Frore's device can saturate the air with the heat on-top of having enough pressure to handle the restrictions in mobile devices.
if it is that efficient why aren't high performance laptops using it? 😂😂😂😂ignoramus
This makes no sense the only way to move more heat is more airflow (all else being constant). More air flow = more heat being removed.
The thing is not all other things are constant. You can have much denser heatsinks with the high static pressure of the frore. @@choilive
plus one of the main strenghts of frore's product is its EXTREMELY low maintanance requirement, making it suitable for use in applications where you can not easily change out the entire unit. Both technologies have their places. I only fear that ventiva's product will output so much ionized air that static charge becomes an issue.
@@kiyoponnn It was never going in high performance laptops in its current form, they said they were for
Fun fact: satellites sometimes use a similar tech to create thrust. It is very efficient, sadly the force produced is very low hence space applications are ideal because you don't need too much thrust (you "don't" have gravity)
Bladeless magnetic ionized fans have been around in the mining industry since the 1970s for emergency airflow situations in, and supplemental airflow in conjunction with overcast/undercasts for decades. They were used when the working area was too far away from the intake or exhaust fan to have proper airflow especially in Shaft or slope mining operations that were miles away from the fan or for longwall mining. I was always surprised no one tried this before now, but I always thought that maybe it was because of the size and it being so small that it would be hard to produce or the magnetization would not be at an acceptable level in a few millimeters of width. Sometimes industrial level technology can't be scaled down because of output losses but this seems like a great idea. Its time the computer industry started looking at new way of doing things since computers haven't really changed in their fundamentals since the 1980s. Fans are a good start to rethinking the computing paradigm.
Been watching this develop for several years. I'm happy to see it finally getting implemented on new devices.
Any way to invest in this company? Lol
From what I remember one of the benefits of the frore was it had extremely high back pressure. There is also another company that is working on what is essentially a mini version of frore cooler for mobile devices.
It is presented here as if it were a new invention, but this technology has been used by companies for years. You can even see it often on UA-cam in fun projects. At the beginning, so much emphasis is placed on CFM, but at the very end of the video the information about static pressure is provided. Whether a cooling system works well depends on many things, not just CFM. There is no information here on how many watts of thermal power can be dissipated in an actual product.
The more Dave talks about this tech, the more I want Dyson or some other home-cooling company to make a metal block that just attaches to the ceiling and generates wind. Maybe one day
it was called the Ionic Breeze, it's quite old, not sure if they even make them any more.
I had one in my room as a kid as an air filter and it was decent
had one back in the 90s /early 2000.. caused statics on everything.. in a room full of smokers would resulted in the elements got covered with brown goey stuff
This technology reminds me of the Sharper Image air filter that they sold 10-15 years ago.
Perhaps it's important to remember that a "fan" is just movement that is seemingly coming from "nothing" but is in fact an application of electromagnetism that this new fan technology doesn't deviate THAT far from. I'm super excited to see what other products can make use of this type of airflow generation. My hope is that it can be used in living spaces, whether it's something like a simple desk fan or to make air conditioning in homes and commercial buildings more accessible. When these "too good to be true" technologies come out I'm always skeptical but it's fun to imagine the amount of noise pollution that would be reduced if this is the real deal.
this new cooling tech is electrostatic though, not electromagnetic
This same tech has been hypothesized for aerospace for years. Seen a few awesome mock ups but it’s exciting to see one being used in this application!
this is the type of sh* we want to see in the industry!
give me a gaming laptop with liquid metal, vapor chamber and this fan.
So according to the data from Ventiva, their stuff has only 10% lower power consumption but then a whole third (25-33%) less airflow per watt.
Surely a big jump from the AirJet but still nothing to replace fans with. Especially since modern laptop fans, especially on those extremely low power levels, are basically silent as well.
if anyone want to see the bigger version of this type of tech. "Plasma channel" made a toy size boat with this type of propelling system.
Dave2D: The guy who is able to summarize whole product review videos within 5-7 minutes. Here with 14 minutes about a small component that goes inside a laptop. That alone tells you all how big this is! (if Dave's infectious fascination already did not :))
It's not that big of a deal. Also, a little bit of dust could ruin this if causes a short.
yeah that's cool and all but when are we getting Dave3D?
still stuck in two dimensions
You mean Dave Baumann?
hilarious 🤣🤣🤣
i’m pretty sure there were companies demoing this very same thing in the late 1990s (for PC desktop cases).
Amazing.
Thank you for re-uploading.
I saw "Dell" on one of the images of the Ionic coolers.
So much for hiding the identity of the manufacturer. Lol!
He demonstrates this tech from Plasma Channel: Next-Gen Ionic Plasma Thruster Inspired By Nature (BTC Mark 3)
Dude, this looks to be just a miniaturised version of a fanless air purifier / deodoriser. These used to be often found in ex japanese imported cars. It generates ozone that basically binds to compounds that are generally smelly. So likely same will happen here and not the best to breath if in a confined space. Still pretty nice.
I hope that this turns out to be as good as it sounds like, potential revolution of cooling...
Plasma Channel has been making prototypes of essentially this, but for use as a thruster rather than a cooling fan. The tech definitely works and it's very cool - great to see a laptop integration!
New to this channel, just want to say the background set is fire 🔥
Ionizing tower fans have been around for years. They use the same principle for moving air, so the technology is not new at all, just shrunk to fit a particular application.
A definite down side is the necessary periodic cleaning of the wire to maintain efficiency, because the wire will slowly accumulate a coating of crud from the air passing through it.
Many people are sensitive to ozone, and should not use this thing.
Until this very day, Dave is pretty much the only UA-camr who actually gets excited about tech, most people seem so bored and just repeat the same stuff over and over, and here's Dave. I've been watching since wayyy before, and always come back to watch pretty much everything he releases
This is the coolest thing I’ve seen in tech since solid state batteries
No moving parts does not necessarily mean that it lasts longer. The high voltage can be a big stress in the electronics of the fan, but also can mean a lot of noise that the other Components need to endure.
Similar to good quality LED lights. The LEDs themselves rarely fail, but often it's the driver circuitry.
Best nerdy video I've seen by a big creator in long time. Love it!!!
Since these are so thin, I can imagine that they might solve the static pressure issue by having them angled upwards, so that they can directly suck the air from the bottom and then to the back and up, without having to bend it 90 degrees. Alternatively, they could flow the air through the corners of the laptop so it doesn't have to go through its entire length/width.
I'm glad to see two of my main questions about this addressed - ionization and static pressure. Not that creating ozone is all that bad (forests ar echock full of ozone, and being in forest air over time has plenty of positive health benefits), but it's still good to keep ozone generation intentional. The static pressure issue is definitely more concerning, not only for the reasons mentioned, but also because it severely limits heatsink thickness and density, which is the main positive with shrinking cooling solutions (alongside more room for batteries I guess, but many small laptops today are already hitting the max for taking on flights, so...). I guess the solution here would be more coolers spread out, though that again comes into conflict with I/O - so this likely won't be a very suitable solution for high powered gaming laptops. Still, assuming it works with moderate sized heatsinnks there could be some very compact mid-tier laptops coming in the near future, especially if AMD's Strix Halo chips perform well. Now we just need to see them also ensure proper safety for servicing and cleaning around the high voltage components involved in this, and this could be pretty cool.
This is truly amazing tech. Thanks for sharing.
So...they just miniaturised the plasma channel's prototype🤣
"Stark built this in a CAVE, from a box of SCRAPS"
"But sir, I'm not Tony Stark...HOWEVER, we managed to make his design smaller so it less noisy"
"Oh...ok. Well, good job I guess."
Ionic cooling engine actually sounds cool without being cringe and it's actually pretty sweet tech from a practical standpoint.
Everything in physics is crazy - the closer you look the more mind-boggling it gets
That actually look promising! Not as energy efficient as a fan, sure, for its first generation! Can't wait to see how they will improve their design to increase the static pressure as well as make it more energy efficient.
The gabs in the keybard are not for airflow...there is literally a full metal plate behind them. No air can flow there. It also wouldnt make sense to vent hot air out of the KEYBOARD.
The gaps are there for manufacturing reasons and to allow some wiggle room during keystrokes.
The top "vent" on this specific Zenbook is also just decorative. There is no airflow out of this area, its just there for looks.
Cooling is absolutely key to keeping a laptop running at peak performance and not throttling!
There's a world of difference in cost to manufacture fans with moving parts vs standard power boards and a metal bracket. I really think these things will be much cheaper than fans when they hit scale.
I never expected to see an ionic thruster in a laptop. Very cool!
This or Frore Airjet? Either way I need this in stuff like my steam deck please
It'd be interesting to know how delicate it is, effect of dust and moisture on it, etc.
I can’t believe none of the Frore coverage I saw mentioned that power draw… That explains so much
A handheld pc with something like this can be insane. Thanks for this video! You truly show the newest tech before anyone
Glad dust won't be an issue
imagine this tech in a mini pc system combined with a aio or a real water custom loop
how i can still watch old video till end while it had deleted?
I can imagine a future where a future iteration of these will be cooling off ARM-based laptops and devices. Very neat tech
Clearly, Dave hasn't seen any videos from Plasma Channel.
Only legends know this video has been RE-UPLOADED 😂
Good thing I’m not a legend
Did he spill the beans?
No
He just forgot to add numbers to his graph
and waiting and other re-upload in 3...2....1....
The other one wasn't aimed at cooling a notebook but at cooling an IC inside a cell phone. This one is nice, also - but I think they have different application.
Amazing, hyped to see this at CES and hoping for some good laptop designs in the future using this tech
Also you don't need to remove fans completely but rather use them at less speed or in better locations
Flow and satic preasure are 2 very different issues. These provide virtually no pressure, which is needed to push air through a heatsink or enclosures. Hence why this test is in open air.
Really well done! Super good explanation with a lot more depth than I would have expected! :)
This product is a small part of the futuristic future we dreamt of back in the 90s. Really cool technology!
This makes me excited, some time ago I saw a prototype of a "paper plane" like device using this technology for propulsion and it was extremely cool
I have see this tech in mythbusters 15 years ago, the levitanting triangle made from aluminum with high current flies
advancements in tech is honestly beautiful in a world where more conflicts are happeing rn
It’s not really new technology though, they make large commercial versions of this already. The main problems with trying to use this in a laptop is that they attract dust like nothing else and they also produce a fair bit of electrical noise.
oh great. 8 hours with this cooler and your room is going to be filled with ozone
This (similar) is already used in the B-2 bomber to achieve extra flying heights where the air density is not enought to lift the plane itself. Million volts charged on the leading edge of the wings.
@@zeus1117 wow really? Didn't know that.
Thought that it would be even less effective in rarer air.
What's your source for this info?
MIT made an airplane powered by ionic thrust but it was extremely low powered.
If there's a million volts on the leading edge of the B-2 bomber, I think it would be the result of flying through the air rather than means to propel the aircraft.
Many aircraft have spikes on the edge of wings to dissipate static charge. I'm not aware of any crewed aircraft using static charge as a thrust device.
Stack exchange has a post about it... like like it's from a UFO book
I thought that is more of a stealth tech not a propulsion tech
Which part of the NDA did ya' break this time? Lmao
Ask but don't Dell
my dear ion thruster getting the recognition it deserves
Can’t wait for apple to pick this technology up in a decade and spend 30 minutes explaining how they invented this big breakthrough 🤣 But for real though, I want this in my mac, MacBook, ipad and mac mini asap
this "can't wait for apple to pick up existing tech only to claim they invented it" shtick is really worn out at this point
why would Apple need this? this shit needs vents, airs and ipads do not have vents
@@fullalbums5675 still true though. I love and almost exclusively use apple products but damn they’re slow at “refining” tech
@@idontmindu @ MBP gets a bit loud at times.
It makes sense to put it in the air too since its silent and small so it won’t affect form factor put helps with performance.
It would be cool on the ipad especially since it gets a little hot sometimes. I use mine a lot for emulation when I travel for work and it gets quite hot when emulating bigger titles.
This is not a new technology. This was used in home air purifiers. It's a new application for the process, but the technology itself is well established.
I dont remeber where i saw this tech first but it was possibly well over a year ago, I wondered how long it might take for it to start being put in things like laptops. Im so very happy its getting close to being launched. Once this tech becomes widely available I cant even imagine how far it could go when the whole world of sciensts get their teeth into it!
Oh and another thing, no moving parts means potentially no wear!
I have never seen Dave so excited before, and now I'm excited. Laptops of the future are going to be cool.
As amazed as you are ! Very educative explanation of static pressure, thank you !
I feel his unbelief at this. That fan seems like fiction.
Looks like mini version of Dyson fan tech. Pretty cool how tech keeps improving.
I hope Apple is deep in investigating things like this. Smaller packages for the airflow, or else adding some amount of airflow to passive devices like the MacBook Air and avoiding throttling without a moving fan.
macbook air doesn't have vents
@@idontmindu That’s what he means when he mentions that it’s a passive device. Passively cooled. Using the aluminum body as a radiant heatsink through convection. It does not have forced air movement anywhere to greatly multiply the efficiency of the radiant passive heatsink. (the laptop body) The laptop is completely silent this way, however, once the body becomes warm it does not remove heat efficiently enough to allow the processors to continue to be run at their maximum frequency due to overheating, so when the body becomes warm and the processors reach a heightened temp, they begin to throttle the operating frequency down (slowing the processors) to maintain that maximum operating temperature, where as in a forced induction cooling system, the fan would spin up to keep the processor cool and allow it to continue to work at its highest frequency (fastest) by being actively cooled by a fan, instead of being passively cooled through radiant convection from the aluminum body of the laptop, which acts as the laptop’s heat-exchanger.
A combination of all three will work wonders
Impressed you brought up ozone. Very nice overview
I think the early generations will combine this technology with a traditional fan
I dont get how these drummers have not heard this songs before.
The company working with Ventiva, Compal, manufacturers hardware for Dell, HP, and Apple. So it will, eventually be in at least 2 of those companies. I have a feeling the Apple engineers might be smart enough (or nefarious enough) to recognize that ionized air damages plastics and rubbers, and wouldn't be dumb enough to put that into a piece of tech containing plastics and rubbers. (or smart enough TO put it in, knowing its putting a hard expiry date on their expensive hardware)
Looks like something straight out of a sci-fi movie.
Love the tech, hope we see some real-world products soon.
Love the video and the minimalistic style
We already have issues with devices overheating by getting smaller and with less efficient cooling solutions and fans. This not being able to such air will just means more overheating problems. I doubt consumers will buy this product until real world scenarios are shown.
Dave's reaction is that of people who first discovered electricity.