I've watched most of Vanessa's routines on YT, and I don't think I've ever seen her do a clean pirouette- her feet always separated, or she got sticky or choppy on them. An UB routine requires pirouettes, so I don't know what else she could have done. There was so much pressure on her for years to be the next Gold medal winner. I wish she could have just competed for herself, not be pressured by everyone else.
@unevercalled So true. She should not have been made to keep doing the commenici. They could have subbed a plethora of other things for that move yet they just kept berating her. She is the BEST floor worker I have ever seen. It's not about her tumbling she just draws you into the routine, it's danced so well. You can't take your eyes off her on floor. I haven't seen anyone since her that is so amazing on the floor.
I have been watching Vanessa's routines from 1997 to 2000 and you're right, it wasn't just the Comaneci that gave her problems. Before every bar rountine she appears to have a dreaded look on her face like she knows what will happen...
I wish I could agree with the person who said she shouldn't have competed bars, and focused on the other three. Except this was 1990's. The 5 - 4 format makes it difficult when you have a gymnast who will drag the team down if she competes, even if her score is eliminated. She was frankly fantastic on the other three, it's a pity she was a competitor before 3 - 4.
I blame Vanessa's coaches for not teaching her how to do a half or full pirouette on bars. Isn't that a basic skill she should have learned prior to learning releases? Maybe if she spent two months with Mary Lee Tracy (whose students had great bar technique), then maybe Vanessa should have started fresh with a basic bar routine.
I agree. I'm afraid she was not mentally strong to overcome the preasure everyone put on her. Her coaches did what they could but in the end they made it even worse. I remember Steve's look at Vanessa, he put a lot preasure on her.
Levels of difficulty have been raised. Also, the competition format has changed: first, the compulsories got abolished. Then, the 3-up, 3-count rule got approved.
I think Catalina Ponor was the same way with bars. I have never seen Ponor, as talented as she was, do a set of bars. What is it about bars that gave Vanessa this much trouble? It still boggles my mind.
Well if you compare her to Ally R, she doesn't do the bars either. Granted she can usually get through her set but I see alot of similar qualitys in the two athletes. I absolutely loved Vanessa in her day and I was devastated when she didn't make the Olympic team. I always felt they pushed her too hard and her coaches were to blame. It's the çoaching style most definitely. It wasn't working and they didn't change anything just kept making her do the same damn things over and over!!
Perhaps, but it wasn't just one skill, she was messing up all over the place. Sometimes it was the Comaneci, sometimes it was the toe-shoot, sometimes it was the pirouettes. She just couldn't focus on bars in competition.
True. She is certainly not a natural bar worker. But look at Khorkina, who is. She is certainly not muscular and even used different technique to aid her in times when she couldn't just muscle out of difficult situations. What separates someone like Khorkina from Vanessa are overall more solid technique and confidence. Vanessa never believed in herself enough to have any success on bars.
Why is she even up there? She's not even trying. She's out of shape (as she even admitted on tape), & she is completely unfocused. She could do alot better, phobia or not. Awful bar technique for an elite gymnast.
Couldn't agree more. Atler had decent bars before all this happened. It seemed to me they pushed her too far to realize their expectations on her. It seemed to me they got desperated about taking her to the OOOOO's and actually they both looked worried since they did not know for sure if Vanessa even wanted to be a champion or even being an Olympian.
who was coaching her at this point? Had she left the Rybacki's yet? Too bad Nessa wasn't around for later cycles in gymnastics.. at that time, being a "specialist" wasn't as in vogue.. in fact, I got the impressions that gymnasts were looked down upon for not having all 4 events ready to go.. nowadays, gymnasts happily let go of the event that they struggle on!! just a different time of the sport..
If they took out her commenici release skill sooner, maybe she wouldn't have lost so much confidence on bars. I'm sure they are plenty of other release skills the coaches could have substituted.
@missmouse35 well she never should have been an AA gymnast. Her bars stinks, even in the miracle she hit it perfectly with the Commaneci in it like the 98 Nationals she would get a 9.2 something at a World even probably. She should have been a 3 event specialist like Sacramone, Cheng Fei, Ponar and others. It should have been recognized early she couldnt do bars so there was no point in making her an AA gymnast.
During this time period you did not have a choice of being an event specialist. If you did not do all-around you most likely would not compete. Yes, the line up did allow for an event specialist but USA gymnastics was in no position to just bring along a gymnast for 1 event. Maybe 2 events but even then only if you were gold medal worthy and non of the us athletes were. Even look at trials, Shannon Miller and Dawes had to show routines on all events.
No one. She left the Rybacki's right before this competition. I'm pretty sure she was hurt at the world trials and petitioned her way onto the team because she was 2nd at Nationals, but showed up without a coach and totally out of shape for this meet. She just had a miserable competition both in team and AA. This was really the beginning of the end for her. Very reminiscent of Kristi Phillips.
atler lacked many basic fundamentals on bars. instead of building a routine she could do, her coaches kept this routine for years, and she failed time and time again until her confidence was destroyed. atler, as dynamic as she was in personality and tumbling, was never meant to be an all-arounder, sadly.
I've watched most of Vanessa's routines on YT, and I don't think I've ever seen her do a clean pirouette- her feet always separated, or she got sticky or choppy on them. An UB routine requires pirouettes, so I don't know what else she could have done. There was so much pressure on her for years to be the next Gold medal winner. I wish she could have just competed for herself, not be pressured by everyone else.
@unevercalled So true. She should not have been made to keep doing the commenici. They could have subbed a plethora of other things for that move yet they just kept berating her. She is the BEST floor worker I have ever seen. It's not about her tumbling she just draws you into the routine, it's danced so well. You can't take your eyes off her on floor. I haven't seen anyone since her that is so amazing on the floor.
I have been watching Vanessa's routines from 1997 to 2000 and you're right, it wasn't just the Comaneci that gave her problems. Before every bar rountine she appears to have a dreaded look on her face like she knows what will happen...
I wish I could agree with the person who said she shouldn't have competed bars, and focused on the other three. Except this was 1990's. The 5 - 4 format makes it difficult when you have a gymnast who will drag the team down if she competes, even if her score is eliminated. She was frankly fantastic on the other three, it's a pity she was a competitor before 3 - 4.
I blame Vanessa's coaches for not teaching her how to do a half or full pirouette on bars. Isn't that a basic skill she should have learned prior to learning releases? Maybe if she spent two months with Mary Lee Tracy (whose students had great bar technique), then maybe Vanessa should have started fresh with a basic bar routine.
I agree. I'm afraid she was not mentally strong to overcome the preasure everyone put on her. Her coaches did what they could but in the end they made it even worse. I remember Steve's look at Vanessa, he put a lot preasure on her.
Levels of difficulty have been raised. Also, the competition format has changed: first, the compulsories got abolished. Then, the 3-up, 3-count rule got approved.
I think Catalina Ponor was the same way with bars. I have never seen Ponor, as talented as she was, do a set of bars. What is it about bars that gave Vanessa this much trouble? It still boggles my mind.
Her swing isn't good. She just wasn't a natural bars worker at all.
@gymnasticsloverxoxo it did and its so crazy because she could do it in practice but not in competition...very sad
Well if you compare her to Ally R, she doesn't do the bars either. Granted she can usually get through her set but I see alot of similar qualitys in the two athletes. I absolutely loved Vanessa in her day and I was devastated when she didn't make the Olympic team. I always felt they pushed her too hard and her coaches were to blame. It's the çoaching style most definitely. It wasn't working and they didn't change anything just kept making her do the same damn things over and over!!
But they did!! It's just something that couldn't be overcome, no matter how hard she/they tried.
Perhaps, but it wasn't just one skill, she was messing up all over the place. Sometimes it was the Comaneci, sometimes it was the toe-shoot, sometimes it was the pirouettes. She just couldn't focus on bars in competition.
True. She is certainly not a natural bar worker. But look at Khorkina, who is. She is certainly not muscular and even used different technique to aid her in times when she couldn't just muscle out of difficult situations. What separates someone like Khorkina from Vanessa are overall more solid technique and confidence. Vanessa never believed in herself enough to have any success on bars.
Why is she even up there? She's not even trying. She's out of shape (as she even admitted on tape), & she is completely unfocused. She could do alot better, phobia or not. Awful bar technique for an elite gymnast.
Couldn't agree more. Atler had decent bars before all this happened. It seemed to me they pushed her too far to realize their expectations on her. It seemed to me they got desperated about taking her to the OOOOO's and actually they both looked worried since they did not know for sure if Vanessa even wanted to be a champion or even being an Olympian.
who was coaching her at this point? Had she left the Rybacki's yet?
Too bad Nessa wasn't around for later cycles in gymnastics.. at that time, being a "specialist" wasn't as in vogue.. in fact, I got the impressions that gymnasts were looked down upon for not having all 4 events ready to go.. nowadays, gymnasts happily let go of the event that they struggle on!! just a different time of the sport..
this was all-around, she didnt have a choice.
If they took out her commenici release skill sooner, maybe she wouldn't have lost so much confidence on bars. I'm sure they are plenty of other release skills the coaches could have substituted.
@missmouse35 well she never should have been an AA gymnast. Her bars stinks, even in the miracle she hit it perfectly with the Commaneci in it like the 98 Nationals she would get a 9.2 something at a World even probably. She should have been a 3 event specialist like Sacramone, Cheng Fei, Ponar and others. It should have been recognized early she couldnt do bars so there was no point in making her an AA gymnast.
During this time period you did not have a choice of being an event specialist. If you did not do all-around you most likely would not compete.
Yes, the line up did allow for an event specialist but USA gymnastics was in no position to just bring along a gymnast for 1 event. Maybe 2 events but even then only if you were gold medal worthy and non of the us athletes were.
Even look at trials, Shannon Miller and Dawes had to show routines on all events.
No one. She left the Rybacki's right before this competition. I'm pretty sure she was hurt at the world trials and petitioned her way onto the team because she was 2nd at Nationals, but showed up without a coach and totally out of shape for this meet. She just had a miserable competition both in team and AA. This was really the beginning of the end for her. Very reminiscent of Kristi Phillips.
She went to Autur Arkopyan, but he didn't really coach her and just let her do whatever she wanted, that's why she was so out of shape
atler lacked many basic fundamentals on bars. instead of building a routine she could do, her coaches kept this routine for years, and she failed time and time again until her confidence was destroyed. atler, as dynamic as she was in personality and tumbling, was never meant to be an all-arounder, sadly.