You have the patience of a saint, Jason. Not sure how many ways there are left for you to describe this, or why so many users struggle with this concept. But you're doing an astounding job in your quest to educate us all. Thanks for another great vid!
On the Kemper, adding gain adds no volume but only distorsion. It's not always clear what builders means when they write "gain". Sometimes it's just input gain according to physics. Sometimes it's added distorsion plus input gain. Sometimes it's only distorsion.
First of all, It's pretty rare to see someone taking the time to actually figure out the technical stuff. Proceeding to then have the presence of mind to explain it in a way that's easy to understand for the guitar freaks on youtube is quite the occasion! Adding a flippin' detailed accurate corresponding spread sheet on top of the rest of it is just outstanding. Very well done.
Jason... great video, very thorough and scientific. This issue for me is that IK should be clarifying this type of stuff and not relying on external people to work it out. The IK manual contradicts your findings, the Input Trim meter on the pedal is also suggesting the trim should be higher than 0db. Then you have other reputable tone partners, like Paul at Studio Rats saying the exact opposite just the other day. I fully accept what you are saying is correct... hopefully IK will update the documentation with the new update and help remove the confusing advice. Hey, maybe IK need to publish there own video to give the correct guidance. It seems tho that the input trim can pretty be set at anything and just use the gain knob to get the tone you want. Good stuff as ever though Jason.
Thanks Jason! I looked your vids on Helix and became the local Helix advisor, now I bought a tonex and I'm back on your channel learning from the master again😅🤘🎸
This kind of information is sooooooo helpful! I LOVE my TONEX pedal but when I first started using it I struggled to get the sounds I wanted from it. The input trim and gain settings were the key. Thank you !
You have been a great source for me the past 30 days as I am relatively new to Tonex pedal. I’m a steel tourist in Nashville so most slaves you hear on UA-cam is distortion guitar. But everything you teach can relate over to my clean tones.
Thank you very much for this, I set mine to -2.5 and things feel and sound much more organic. I feel like I've misunderstood how to use the pedal overall until giving this a try 👍🏼
I wondered the same thing. Now consider the fact that some of the presets have their gain set to 10, and I'm really scratching my head. So many of the presets sound like dog shit, simply because the have an input gain of about +20 db. Maybe they wanna simulate a pre-boost fully cranked? But then they do it on every third preset? Why...?
Some great info as always .... I got few of your captures (Fantastic) and got my Tonex set always to -3db....just sounds great and dynamic . What les paul is it ? ...love the flame and color on it .
Thank you so much for the kind words and using some tone models, REALLY glad you are enjoying them :-) That is a Standard 60's I picked a couple years ago. It is the Iced Tea finish. I also really liked the flame on this one!
Good info Jason. I kinda figured out this input setting and gain setting by experimentation. Understanding the variations of levels with capture profiles is important and challenging.
Thanks Jason for your effort you put into it. But, my question is: no other modeler / profiler on the market has this issue (I owned quite a few), so why this is not solved by IK Multimedia?
My pleasure! None of it is as much of an issue as it is made out to be. The facts are that the amount of input level that hits the front of a tone model/profile/capture/model will change the way the way it sounds. More level more saturation, less level less saturation. This goes for Line 6 Helix, Kemper, Quad Cortex, Tonex etc. The thing that Kemper/Line 6/Quad Cortex have going for them is they are all in one hardware/software solutions. So, plug into a Helix and the hardware is dialled in to work perfectly with the amp models. Tonex started as software only which needed to be used with an audio interface. All audio interfaces have different instrument input levels and line output levels. When a user creates a tone model and doesn't know precisely what levels they used, when the tone model is transferred to the pedal it is likely it will not sound the same since it is being hit with a different input level. That is why I measure my signal chain very carefully and can tell people who use my tone models that they are created at 0 dBu = -11dBfs which equates to having Tonex Pedal set at Global Input Trim of -3.0 dB with the Gain Knob on the default 5.0. If a user is using Tonex Pedal at the default +8.5 dB Global Input Trim, they would simply need to move the Gain Knob to 2.6 and my tone model will sound exactly as I captured it. Of course, you can also just load up any tone model and adjust the Gain Knob until it sounds as you need it to :-) Hope that helps somewhat :-)
@@JasonSadites your videos are helping a lot :). The fact that I own a Helix, and played couple of months on a Quad Cortex and didn't have to guess what's the right input level was making me think that ToneX Pedal / Software would be the same. But I was wrong :)
I’m trying to figure this out with the chart, but I was running my input trim at +4.5 and then backing the gain off on some captures to 3.0. I just brought the input trim down to -3.0 and the capture gains back to 5.0 and they sound pretty close. Also, I never use the Tonex pedal as an interface, only live. I think a lot of confusion comes from the pedal being set to +8.5 as a default and including the LOW/OK/HIGH indicators that seem are pretty much useless.
Jason, do you feel like the gain stage which occurs at the at the final phase of modelling then becomes the default vaule of 5 of the modelled amp?, when it requests the gain input to match the real amp, it seems to me that whatever you set THAT setting to, it then takes it in to the next phase as your modelled amp as 5 gain (it says 5, but isnt this linked to the gain stage applied before also? so its like...whatever you set in modelling i,.e could be 4 oclock, that setting you picked then defaults to models at 5 gain, annoyingly those meters in the modelling section arnt numbered for the gain stage). To me this seems pretty crucial to understand, and at the moment that's been my experience but i'm not fully convinced exactly whats going on. The software mentions that whatever value is selected in the modeller phase can be change after at any point, which goes against my logic of the process.
Appreciate this video and your patience on this topic. Quick question: I just started using the -11dBFS to 0dBu calibration for making captures via the line out instead of the built-in AxeIO reamp out. I’m seeing a 0.090v drop through the reamp box I’m using (Walrus Canvas). Should I boost up the interface output so I’m getting 0.775v coming out of the reamp box as well, or just accept this drop and keep the interface out at 0dBu?
Brilliant Jason BUT it means that we must know the ideal Input dB needed for the capture we have bought. what is yours ? Is it homogeneous on your various captures (I have several from you :-) ) An what about other vendors ?
Thank you! All of my tone models from the very start have been made with the same exact spec. 0 dBu = -11 dBfs. That equates to Tonex Pedal Global Inout Trim set to -3.0. If Tinex Pedal was set at factory default +8.5 dB, you would move the Tonex Gain knob to 2.6 and my tone models will sound exactly as I captured them. I cannot speak for other tone model creators, they would have to give you that info. Hope that helps :-)
Thanks Jason, super educational and proves the relationship between input gain and preset gain. Both on software and pedal. I really have a problem in that I always find the pedal sounding so much better than the software - when using the pedal as the audio interface. I term it as if the fidelity is less on the software. Could you do a video comparing various low and hi gain sounds on both pedal and software to prove they can sound the same.
Jason thank you so much for another wonderful video. I recently got a tonex one in order to use it in the fx loop of my Hx stomp. It sounds great but I find out that when you use the tonex one as an audio interface and record it, it sounds great and has a certain volumen, however when you use it into the fx loop of the HX stomp and record using the HX stomp as an audio interface, the volume is way lower and maybe with less gain, (I already use your advice of how to use both together) and in my opinion, it seems like the sound of the tonex alone is better than in the other way i mentioned. What I did is to increase the return level of the block +5db, after recording and comparing different sound samples, this is what matches better the volume and sound. Do you think is ok? or should I just don't pay attention to the volume drop, by the way the tonex sounds lower than hx stomp amps.
Jason, from what I understand, all of these tips apply in a recording situation, right? But, let's say, in my use, which involves connecting the Tonex to a Yamaha mixer and, from there, to a pair of Yamaha DBR10 speakers, I have done the following: input at 6.5, gain always at 5.0. Everything ok? Grateful!
Am I the only one having the issue when turning the volume or gain down any point lower than half way getting a terrible sound/tone? It sounds fizzy like it's barely getting a guitar signal even just one little touch under half way/middle position. I have to have both of them right in the middle or higher. Same thing when using one for a boost. I can't turn any preset I have lower than half way/middle position without it sounding all funky like it's getting half the guitar signal or something. It doesn't make sense and I don't remember that issue with the big Tonex pedal. And I have the noise gate off and this occurs on all of my Tonex One pedals. I'm not going to bother contacting support. I've been waiting about a month now already for them to answer my last question 😣
Great tutorial! I'd like to know..I read many complain that ToneX pedal would be quite often very noisy, buzz and so on. Do you think is it true? Id so, is there a way to have a noiseless sound?
I have never had an issue with it. It is no different than plugging into any modeler or amp. If you are using a very high gain tone, there will be some inherent noise but nothing specific to Tonex. Hope that helps :-)
If your referring to the physical pedal actually making noise, mine was horrible until I switched to a better power supply then all the noise went away. Maybe some kind of grounding issue because the noise would go away if I touched the pedal, plus I could feel vibrations coming from it!
Was going to ask where to find the recommendation. I'm guessing if we look at the data sheet for the instrument input in the RME docs it will be there?
Taking a quick peak at the Babyface Pro Manual, the specs state it has 13dBu of headroom on the Instrument input. In other words, if you set the Global Input Trim at -5.0 dB that would be equal to the Babyface Pro Instrument Input with no gain added. You could then use the Tonex Gain knob to adjust to whatever boost or cut you want according to the settings I show in this video and in the .pdf. Hope that helps 🙂
TY Jason, my question is : this only matters if u use TONEX into an interface ? Cause of the input level in the interface? What about going direct to a PA?. I see u wasn't clipping at -3 neither at +8.5, but if I use it at 8.5 it's ok, just like u, but at -3 it's not even green-light at TONEX one, so it doesn't matter ???? I understand the gain approach to compensate the tone, but it's not telling u the pedal it needs more signal to get the most of it ? Maybe lower input trim is better if u use a software to perform, but higher input trim (I mean green lights or ok status)if u play live and just adjust the gain preset level ?... damn, I'm in the rabbit hole ! Great video.
No this applies to Tonex in all cases not just recording. Output levels are something completely different and do not change the sound of the tone model. This is referring simply to input levels which will cause tone models to sound different. Hope that answers your question :-)
F that light on Tonex one 😂. I also had this reservation about the input trim light but I noticed that my profiles always reacted the same as when I had tested them in my daw when I had the input trim on the pedal low through my rig. When I had the trim low, the light wouldn’t even turn on unless I hit the guitar fairly hard, but the sound was same more or less. For reference I run a hybrid rig live, running my tonex one as a pre amp through the effects loop (no cab sim)of what ever back line amp they have at the venue and have gotten the best results.
Jason, sometimes I get confused over this issue. Lets say in my case I use a direct box (Neve RNDI) I then take that feed to my RME UFX III. How would you set the ToneX up. I have multiple remodelers. When I reamp I go through my Signal Art reamp box.
Hi, a Quick Look at the manual for your RME UFX III, the Instrument Input on it at minimum gain has 21 dBu of headroom. To make it sound like Tonex Pedal at Global Input Trim at 0.0 dB, you would need to boost the RME Instrument Input up +13 dB. I can't comment on the setup with direct box as that chain would have to be measured separately. If I were you, I would try using the Instrument Input of the RME and add +10 dB of gain to it. That would be roughly equivalent to plugging straight into a Line 6 Helix and approx. 1 dB hotter than a UAD Apollo Instrument Input on minimum gain. Hope the helps somewhat :-)
Just a quick question regarding the PDF. Are you able to include the boost/cut db in correlation to the global input trim itself as a separate chart to the Gain knob settings, or is that correlation identical to the gain knob setting? What appears confusing is the db correlation with gain unity at 5 on the gain knob vs global input trim at apparent 0db (ie; GIT -3.0 being unity)? Or am I just not understanding something here in relation to input calibration in DAW between both the effected signal and the DI and the relative gain staging of the two signals from Tonex pedal as an interface? I hope I am articulating this correctly as a question.
Good question! Regardless of where your Global Input Trim is set, you will simply be adding or subtracting the amount of gain set out in the .pdf. So if you start at +8.5 dB on the Global Input Trim and drop the Gain Knob to 2.0, it would be equivalent to the Global Input Trim at -7.5 dB with the Gain Knob at 5.0. Does that make sense and answer the question? Thanks :-)
@@JasonSadites I am assuming this is the reason why there is a 1db difference on tonex pedal when calibrating global input trim to -3.0 and global interface trim to -2.0 to balance the calibration
@@JasonSadites did some 2 or 3 hours testing of my own between the pedal, app and plugin... with the pedal set at +2.5 (matching how my amp sounds), app +8 and plugin +13 to have them all matched and how the amp actually sounds. suppose on the pedal i could set to +0 and the gain to +2.5, but i have noticed even with your captures i need to give it more than -3 to match what i am hearing in your videos and the tonex app built in di. so my question is, since it isn't too far off from what you recommend and i am having no issues, i should just leave it where i am and continue to not worry about it? will look at the pdf after the video.
Yo Jason Sadites just posted a video... me: put the guitar on the rack, watch and learn.. You my sir is a genius.. I bought the Tonex because of your tutorial. Hope you will also post a video for Bass guitar tutorial :) Thank you and Happy Thanksgiving from Canada 😊
Hey, Jason. What about the software input trim knob when I'm using the pedal as interface to set a preset? In the video you don't touch it but if you do can it affect the tone?
@@JasonSadites right, I've seen that and I understood. But I can't understand is if I put the Pedal trim input in, let's say, -3. I have to put the input trim of the software in +3, too. When using only the software, or when using the software with a different audio interface as I've been doing while waiting for the pedal to come. I have a focusrite scarlett solo. I hope you understand my point. I'll check the video later anyway. Thank you.
Ah ok, I understand what you are saying. So if your Focusrite Scarlett Solo is the newest 4th Gen, the Instrument Input set at minimum has 12 dBu of headroom. So if you plug into that and leave the Instrument input gain at minimum, that would be almost exactly like running Tonex Pedal Global Input Trim at -4.0 dB. As far as the software you would just leave the Input level alone at 0.0 dB since you have already set your level at the audio interface. Then if you feel you need more or less input level hitting the tone model you can simply use the Gain knob as I talked about in the video and then save it as a preset. I hope that helps :-)
There is nothing accurate about using that method and no way of expressing to anyone with any accuracy if you are a hitting a specific tone model with the correct amount of gain to sound as it was captured. So, not a good way of approaching things. That said, if you are doing it that way and it is working for you, you should continue doing that :-)
@@JasonSadites It doesn't have to be accurate. If you adjust your input trim to where it is just below clipping with your hottest guitar/pickup combo and adjust the gain as needed then no one needs a premade solution to this "problem" which isn't a problem. I would lay a dollar on the line to say that if everyone did this their input trim would be within 0.5 db of -3.0. With active pickups you might have a 1 db difference.
It most certainly does need to be accurate. I am in the unique position of dealing with literally thousands of people on this topic, so I am probably in a better position to determine whether this is an issue. When a customer asks me to tell them very specifically what level my tone models need to use to sound accurate, I need to be able to answer that with great accuracy. I can do that. If I told them to just take their hottest guitar and adjust until it is almost clipping and back it off they would not be happy about that. I can give a very accurate and repeatable answer that allows them to know precisely how the tone models are made. You have stated that with your way you "bet" it would be accurate to within 3.5 dB, not good enough and people would call me out on it, since that is enough of a difference to be audible. So, yes it is important. Anyway, that is not what this video was about. This video was about facts on how parameters work within Tonex. This is information that everyone should know to get the most out of Tonex, such as the potential issue I discussed with "Dual Mode" when running Global Input Trim to hot. I am not telling anyone what they have to do, but rather sharing factual info. As I already said, if you have a way that works for you, please carry on with it. I would never tell you not to. If that is the case. this may not the video for you and that is alright, but coming on here with a solution that wasn't asked for is not helpful. Anyway, I am glad you have things working how you want. You have nothing left to do but play guitar and enjoy the tones :-)
Just set my ToneX pedal input trim to 0 and increased the gain by 2 and the noise floor went down dramatically, lot quieter pedal, makes the noise gate work better on gain presets, and they sound the same after giving them more gain, haven’t experimented with this but I bet dynamics are probably better.
@@JasonSadites hagstrom super swede to headrush mx5 with tonex pedal in the fx loop. But, it's the same thing if I just use guitar straight to tonex pedal
@@JasonSadites yes. But, I'm getting a weak signal when using tonex app with my regular audio interface as well. But, if I use my headrush alone the signal is very strong same when using a DAW. it's like it's only when tonex products are involved lol
Poor Jason ... after all this time and discussion, he still feels the need to make videos like this... with more evidence than ever before ... well played Mr. Sadites
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You have the patience of a saint, Jason. Not sure how many ways there are left for you to describe this, or why so many users struggle with this concept. But you're doing an astounding job in your quest to educate us all. Thanks for another great vid!
On the Kemper, adding gain adds no volume but only distorsion.
It's not always clear what builders means when they write "gain". Sometimes it's just input gain according to physics. Sometimes it's added distorsion plus input gain. Sometimes it's only distorsion.
You have the BEST Tone X Pedal tutorials on UA-cam, THANK YOU! 😋
@carloswhomusic my pleasure, really glad you enjoy! Also thank you for the kind words 🙏🏻🙂
You are the man, Jason!
100% agree.
First of all, It's pretty rare to see someone taking the time to actually figure out the technical stuff. Proceeding to then have the presence of mind to explain it in a way that's easy to understand for the guitar freaks on youtube is quite the occasion! Adding a flippin' detailed accurate corresponding spread sheet on top of the rest of it is just outstanding. Very well done.
Thank you for the kind words 🙏🏻🙂
Jason... great video, very thorough and scientific. This issue for me is that IK should be clarifying this type of stuff and not relying on external people to work it out. The IK manual contradicts your findings, the Input Trim meter on the pedal is also suggesting the trim should be higher than 0db. Then you have other reputable tone partners, like Paul at Studio Rats saying the exact opposite just the other day. I fully accept what you are saying is correct... hopefully IK will update the documentation with the new update and help remove the confusing advice. Hey, maybe IK need to publish there own video to give the correct guidance. It seems tho that the input trim can pretty be set at anything and just use the gain knob to get the tone you want. Good stuff as ever though Jason.
Thanks Jason! I looked your vids on Helix and became the local Helix advisor, now I bought a tonex and I'm back on your channel learning from the master again😅🤘🎸
This kind of information is sooooooo helpful! I LOVE my TONEX pedal but when I first started using it I struggled to get the sounds I wanted from it. The input trim and gain settings were the key. Thank you !
You have been a great source for me the past 30 days as I am relatively new to Tonex pedal.
I’m a steel tourist in Nashville so most slaves you hear on UA-cam is distortion guitar. But everything you teach can relate over to my clean tones.
Thanks JS. I just ordered the Anniversary model using some JamPoints I had. Looking forward to rocking out on your awesome amp captures😎🎸🖖🏻
Thank you very much for this, I set mine to -2.5 and things feel and sound much more organic. I feel like I've misunderstood how to use the pedal overall until giving this a try 👍🏼
I've watched quite a lot of your Tonex videos so fingers crossed im using it right.
Great advice, and proof. It's amazing how much guitar related mythology there is, and how it is constantly increasing.
Why in the world is the input trim checker there then? What purpose does that serve and what is “OK?”
I have never paid any attention to it. IMO, it give no useful information.
Given this information, is there a reason why IK went with +8.5 db as the default?
I wondered the same thing. Now consider the fact that some of the presets have their gain set to 10, and I'm really scratching my head. So many of the presets sound like dog shit, simply because the have an input gain of about +20 db. Maybe they wanna simulate a pre-boost fully cranked? But then they do it on every third preset? Why...?
Oh man! I have used this pedal for a whole year and didn't realize there was a dual mode!
Thanks a ton Jason, as always, super helpful and thorough!
My pleasure and glad you enjoyed!
Thank you for breaking down the effect the gain settings have in relation to the the input trim. That is a game changer, at least for me
My pleasure Rob! Yeah it is a great feature everyone seems to ignore and I am not sure why...lol
@@JasonSaditesisn’t because the default setting is high?
Some great info as always .... I got few of your captures (Fantastic) and got my Tonex set always to -3db....just sounds great and dynamic . What les paul is it ? ...love the flame and color on it .
Thank you so much for the kind words and using some tone models, REALLY glad you are enjoying them :-) That is a Standard 60's I picked a couple years ago. It is the Iced Tea finish. I also really liked the flame on this one!
Good info Jason. I kinda figured out this input setting and gain setting by experimentation. Understanding the variations of levels with capture profiles is important and challenging.
Thanks Jason, this is extremely helpful. You have a new subscriber!
Greetings
Excellent work as always Jason, I was wondering about exactly this last week
Me too🙏🏾🙏🏾
Nice! This deserves a Tonex One video too. I know, same values but the numbers are hard to read on Tonex One.
Amazing info as always Jason!
Do these same settings apply if I’m using Tonex pedal live and not as an interface?
Thanks!
Yup same settings apply for live or studio :-)
Thanks Jason for your effort you put into it.
But, my question is: no other modeler / profiler on the market has this issue (I owned quite a few), so why this is not solved by IK Multimedia?
My pleasure! None of it is as much of an issue as it is made out to be. The facts are that the amount of input level that hits the front of a tone model/profile/capture/model will change the way the way it sounds. More level more saturation, less level less saturation. This goes for Line 6 Helix, Kemper, Quad Cortex, Tonex etc. The thing that Kemper/Line 6/Quad Cortex have going for them is they are all in one hardware/software solutions. So, plug into a Helix and the hardware is dialled in to work perfectly with the amp models. Tonex started as software only which needed to be used with an audio interface. All audio interfaces have different instrument input levels and line output levels. When a user creates a tone model and doesn't know precisely what levels they used, when the tone model is transferred to the pedal it is likely it will not sound the same since it is being hit with a different input level. That is why I measure my signal chain very carefully and can tell people who use my tone models that they are created at 0 dBu = -11dBfs which equates to having Tonex Pedal set at Global Input Trim of -3.0 dB with the Gain Knob on the default 5.0. If a user is using Tonex Pedal at the default +8.5 dB Global Input Trim, they would simply need to move the Gain Knob to 2.6 and my tone model will sound exactly as I captured it. Of course, you can also just load up any tone model and adjust the Gain Knob until it sounds as you need it to :-) Hope that helps somewhat :-)
@@JasonSadites your videos are helping a lot :).
The fact that I own a Helix, and played couple of months on a Quad Cortex and didn't have to guess what's the right input level was making me think that ToneX Pedal / Software would be the same. But I was wrong :)
I’m trying to figure this out with the chart, but I was running my input trim at +4.5 and then backing the gain off on some captures to 3.0. I just brought the input trim down to -3.0 and the capture gains back to 5.0 and they sound pretty close. Also, I never use the Tonex pedal as an interface, only live. I think a lot of confusion comes from the pedal being set to +8.5 as a default and including the LOW/OK/HIGH indicators that seem are pretty much useless.
Jason, do you feel like the gain stage which occurs at the at the final phase of modelling then becomes the default vaule of 5 of the modelled amp?, when it requests the gain input to match the real amp, it seems to me that whatever you set THAT setting to, it then takes it in to the next phase as your modelled amp as 5 gain (it says 5, but isnt this linked to the gain stage applied before also? so its like...whatever you set in modelling i,.e could be 4 oclock, that setting you picked then defaults to models at 5 gain, annoyingly those meters in the modelling section arnt numbered for the gain stage). To me this seems pretty crucial to understand, and at the moment that's been my experience but i'm not fully convinced exactly whats going on. The software mentions that whatever value is selected in the modeller phase can be change after at any point, which goes against my logic of the process.
bruh exactly THIS. I have always noticed that my Tonex one at very low input trim sounds just like when I’m running the plug in through my Apollo Twin
Thanks for the video.
Why do you refer to the pedal as a person? IOW why say "If you use TONEX pedal" as opposed to "If you use a TONEX pedal" ?
Appreciate this video and your patience on this topic. Quick question: I just started using the -11dBFS to 0dBu calibration for making captures via the line out instead of the built-in AxeIO reamp out. I’m seeing a 0.090v drop through the reamp box I’m using (Walrus Canvas). Should I boost up the interface output so I’m getting 0.775v coming out of the reamp box as well, or just accept this drop and keep the interface out at 0dBu?
Great question! I would boost it back up so you are getting .775v out of the reamp box also. Hope that helps :-)
@@JasonSadites Thanks!
This is crucial info, thank you! I did use the gain knob, but misunderstood its nature. Now I can setup presets much better!
My pleasure and really glad it was helpful :-)
Great tutorial as always 💜
Brilliant Jason BUT it means that we must know the ideal Input dB needed for the capture we have bought. what is yours ? Is it homogeneous on your various captures (I have several from you :-) ) An what about other vendors ?
Thank you! All of my tone models from the very start have been made with the same exact spec. 0 dBu = -11 dBfs. That equates to Tonex Pedal Global Inout Trim set to -3.0. If Tinex Pedal was set at factory default +8.5 dB, you would move the Tonex Gain knob to 2.6 and my tone models will sound exactly as I captured them. I cannot speak for other tone model creators, they would have to give you that info. Hope that helps :-)
@@JasonSadites this is somewhat along the lines of my question in regard to calibration of global interface trim and global input trim settings
Thanks Jason, super educational and proves the relationship between input gain and preset gain. Both on software and pedal. I really have a problem in that I always find the pedal sounding so much better than the software - when using the pedal as the audio interface. I term it as if the fidelity is less on the software. Could you do a video comparing various low and hi gain sounds on both pedal and software to prove they can sound the same.
Jason thank you so much for another wonderful video. I recently got a tonex one in order to use it in the fx loop of my Hx stomp. It sounds great but I find out that when you use the tonex one as an audio interface and record it, it sounds great and has a certain volumen, however when you use it into the fx loop of the HX stomp and record using the HX stomp as an audio interface, the volume is way lower and maybe with less gain, (I already use your advice of how to use both together) and in my opinion, it seems like the sound of the tonex alone is better than in the other way i mentioned. What I did is to increase the return level of the block +5db, after recording and comparing different sound samples, this is what matches better the volume and sound. Do you think is ok? or should I just don't pay attention to the volume drop, by the way the tonex sounds lower than hx stomp amps.
Jason, from what I understand, all of these tips apply in a recording situation, right? But, let's say, in my use, which involves connecting the Tonex to a Yamaha mixer and, from there, to a pair of Yamaha DBR10 speakers, I have done the following: input at 6.5, gain always at 5.0. Everything ok? Grateful!
@@marceloseventies this does not apply only to recording. This is for all instances of using Tonex Pedal.
Am I the only one having the issue when turning the volume or gain down any point lower than half way getting a terrible sound/tone? It sounds fizzy like it's barely getting a guitar signal even just one little touch under half way/middle position. I have to have both of them right in the middle or higher. Same thing when using one for a boost. I can't turn any preset I have lower than half way/middle position without it sounding all funky like it's getting half the guitar signal or something. It doesn't make sense and I don't remember that issue with the big Tonex pedal. And I have the noise gate off and this occurs on all of my Tonex One pedals. I'm not going to bother contacting support. I've been waiting about a month now already for them to answer my last question 😣
Can I use this unit with the power amp in of my Katana and use the loaded tones?
Great tutorial! I'd like to know..I read many complain that ToneX pedal would be quite often very noisy, buzz and so on. Do you think is it true? Id so, is there a way to have a noiseless sound?
I have never had an issue with it. It is no different than plugging into any modeler or amp. If you are using a very high gain tone, there will be some inherent noise but nothing specific to Tonex. Hope that helps :-)
If your referring to the physical pedal actually making noise, mine was horrible until I switched to a better power supply then all the noise went away. Maybe some kind of grounding issue because the noise would go away if I touched the pedal, plus I could feel vibrations coming from it!
@@CSW82 Thank you! Do you have a power supply to suggest?
@@aldepi I changed to the fender engine room for my pedal board, it made a huge difference 👍
Do you recommended settings for Gretsch 5620T into an RME Babyface Pro FS?
Thanks for your knowledge
Was going to ask where to find the recommendation. I'm guessing if we look at the data sheet for the instrument input in the RME docs it will be there?
Taking a quick peak at the Babyface Pro Manual, the specs state it has 13dBu of headroom on the Instrument input. In other words, if you set the Global Input Trim at -5.0 dB that would be equal to the Babyface Pro Instrument Input with no gain added. You could then use the Tonex Gain knob to adjust to whatever boost or cut you want according to the settings I show in this video and in the .pdf. Hope that helps 🙂
@@JasonSaditesyou are the man!!
@@whome3911 glad to help :-)
TY Jason, my question is : this only matters if u use TONEX into an interface ? Cause of the input level in the interface? What about going direct to a PA?. I see u wasn't clipping at -3 neither at +8.5, but if I use it at 8.5 it's ok, just like u, but at -3 it's not even green-light at TONEX one, so it doesn't matter ???? I understand the gain approach to compensate the tone, but it's not telling u the pedal it needs more signal to get the most of it ? Maybe lower input trim is better if u use a software to perform, but higher input trim (I mean green lights or ok status)if u play live and just adjust the gain preset level ?... damn, I'm in the rabbit hole ! Great video.
No this applies to Tonex in all cases not just recording. Output levels are something completely different and do not change the sound of the tone model. This is referring simply to input levels which will cause tone models to sound different. Hope that answers your question :-)
F that light on Tonex one 😂. I also had this reservation about the input trim light but I noticed that my profiles always reacted the same as when I had tested them in my daw when I had the input trim on the pedal low through my rig. When I had the trim low, the light wouldn’t even turn on unless I hit the guitar fairly hard, but the sound was same more or less. For reference I run a hybrid rig live, running my tonex one as a pre amp through the effects loop (no cab sim)of what ever back line amp they have at the venue and have gotten the best results.
Jason, sometimes I get confused over this issue. Lets say in my case I use a direct box (Neve RNDI) I then take that feed to my RME UFX III. How would you set the ToneX up. I have multiple remodelers. When I reamp I go through my Signal Art reamp box.
Hi, a Quick Look at the manual for your RME UFX III, the Instrument Input on it at minimum gain has 21 dBu of headroom. To make it sound like Tonex Pedal at Global Input Trim at 0.0 dB, you would need to boost the RME Instrument Input up +13 dB. I can't comment on the setup with direct box as that chain would have to be measured separately. If I were you, I would try using the Instrument Input of the RME and add +10 dB of gain to it. That would be roughly equivalent to plugging straight into a Line 6 Helix and approx. 1 dB hotter than a UAD Apollo Instrument Input on minimum gain. Hope the helps somewhat :-)
@@JasonSadites Wow, Jason I am so appreciative of this info. I am going to test it here tonight. Thank you!!!
@braxal6983 totally my pleasure! Let me know how it works out for you 🙂
Just a quick question regarding the PDF. Are you able to include the boost/cut db in correlation to the global input trim itself as a separate chart to the Gain knob settings, or is that correlation identical to the gain knob setting? What appears confusing is the db correlation with gain unity at 5 on the gain knob vs global input trim at apparent 0db (ie; GIT -3.0 being unity)? Or am I just not understanding something here in relation to input calibration in DAW between both the effected signal and the DI and the relative gain staging of the two signals from Tonex pedal as an interface? I hope I am articulating this correctly as a question.
Good question! Regardless of where your Global Input Trim is set, you will simply be adding or subtracting the amount of gain set out in the .pdf. So if you start at +8.5 dB on the Global Input Trim and drop the Gain Knob to 2.0, it would be equivalent to the Global Input Trim at -7.5 dB with the Gain Knob at 5.0. Does that make sense and answer the question? Thanks :-)
@@JasonSadites Excellent, so this is directly transposable when calibrating in DAW
@@nnnownow yup 🙂
@@JasonSadites I am assuming this is the reason why there is a 1db difference on tonex pedal when calibrating global input trim to -3.0 and global interface trim to -2.0 to balance the calibration
@@JasonSadites did some 2 or 3 hours testing of my own between the pedal, app and plugin... with the pedal set at +2.5 (matching how my amp sounds), app +8 and plugin +13 to have them all matched and how the amp actually sounds. suppose on the pedal i could set to +0 and the gain to +2.5, but i have noticed even with your captures i need to give it more than -3 to match what i am hearing in your videos and the tonex app built in di. so my question is, since it isn't too far off from what you recommend and i am having no issues, i should just leave it where i am and continue to not worry about it? will look at the pdf after the video.
Yo Jason Sadites just posted a video...
me: put the guitar on the rack, watch and learn.. You my sir is a genius.. I bought the Tonex because of your tutorial. Hope you will also post a video for Bass guitar tutorial :)
Thank you and Happy Thanksgiving from Canada 😊
Thank you so much for the kind words and really happy you enjoy what I do :-) Means a lot!
Hey, Jason. What about the software input trim knob when I'm using the pedal as interface to set a preset? In the video you don't touch it but if you do can it affect the tone?
I have a whole section in this video that showcases this all with the Input knob in the software. It is timestamped.
@@JasonSadites right, I've seen that and I understood. But I can't understand is if I put the Pedal trim input in, let's say, -3. I have to put the input trim of the software in +3, too. When using only the software, or when using the software with a different audio interface as I've been doing while waiting for the pedal to come. I have a focusrite scarlett solo. I hope you understand my point. I'll check the video later anyway. Thank you.
Ah ok, I understand what you are saying. So if your Focusrite Scarlett Solo is the newest 4th Gen, the Instrument Input set at minimum has 12 dBu of headroom. So if you plug into that and leave the Instrument input gain at minimum, that would be almost exactly like running Tonex Pedal Global Input Trim at -4.0 dB. As far as the software you would just leave the Input level alone at 0.0 dB since you have already set your level at the audio interface. Then if you feel you need more or less input level hitting the tone model you can simply use the Gain knob as I talked about in the video and then save it as a preset. I hope that helps :-)
@@JasonSadites Now we are talking. Thank you.
@@PatricioFunes my pleasure, let me know how it works out 🙂
Thanks dude! This is awesome!!
My pleasure and glad you enjoyed :-)
This is Gold!
Very useful!
Why not just use your guitar with the hottest pickups, set your input trim accordingly and let it ride?
There is nothing accurate about using that method and no way of expressing to anyone with any accuracy if you are a hitting a specific tone model with the correct amount of gain to sound as it was captured. So, not a good way of approaching things. That said, if you are doing it that way and it is working for you, you should continue doing that :-)
@@JasonSadites It doesn't have to be accurate. If you adjust your input trim to where it is just below clipping with your hottest guitar/pickup combo and adjust the gain as needed then no one needs a premade solution to this "problem" which isn't a problem. I would lay a dollar on the line to say that if everyone did this their input trim would be within 0.5 db of -3.0. With active pickups you might have a 1 db difference.
It most certainly does need to be accurate. I am in the unique position of dealing with literally thousands of people on this topic, so I am probably in a better position to determine whether this is an issue. When a customer asks me to tell them very specifically what level my tone models need to use to sound accurate, I need to be able to answer that with great accuracy. I can do that. If I told them to just take their hottest guitar and adjust until it is almost clipping and back it off they would not be happy about that. I can give a very accurate and repeatable answer that allows them to know precisely how the tone models are made. You have stated that with your way you "bet" it would be accurate to within 3.5 dB, not good enough and people would call me out on it, since that is enough of a difference to be audible. So, yes it is important. Anyway, that is not what this video was about. This video was about facts on how parameters work within Tonex. This is information that everyone should know to get the most out of Tonex, such as the potential issue I discussed with "Dual Mode" when running Global Input Trim to hot. I am not telling anyone what they have to do, but rather sharing factual info. As I already said, if you have a way that works for you, please carry on with it. I would never tell you not to. If that is the case. this may not the video for you and that is alright, but coming on here with a solution that wasn't asked for is not helpful. Anyway, I am glad you have things working how you want. You have nothing left to do but play guitar and enjoy the tones :-)
@@JasonSadites TLDR
Thank you
Ah! Now I know why most of my presets have the gain at 1 and 2 🤣
Just set my ToneX pedal input trim to 0 and increased the gain by 2 and the noise floor went down dramatically, lot quieter pedal, makes the noise gate work better on gain presets, and they sound the same after giving them more gain, haven’t experimented with this but I bet dynamics are probably better.
Tonex tells me the input is too low, even when it's at +15.
What is your complete signal chain> What guitar are you using?
@@JasonSadites hagstrom super swede to headrush mx5 with tonex pedal in the fx loop.
But, it's the same thing if I just use guitar straight to tonex pedal
That is odd! Do you have your guitar volume on 10?
@@JasonSadites yes.
But, I'm getting a weak signal when using tonex app with my regular audio interface as well. But, if I use my headrush alone the signal is very strong same when using a DAW. it's like it's only when tonex products are involved lol
Poor Jason ... after all this time and discussion, he still feels the need to make videos like this... with more evidence than ever before ... well played Mr. Sadites
Thanks! I really just want folks to have the easiest and best experience with the product :-)
This is Gold!
thank you
My pleasure :-)