Supposedly, UCP was designed with night vision in mind; the black in woodland was specifically noted as standing out. This was a nice comparison of camo patterns, but seeing them against some sort of vegetative background, even a camo net, would have been informative as well.
UCP is the top NIR performer in NATO testing, we also tested it and it was clearly the top performer, was also the top urban performer as well meaning in modern gray concrete jungle settings
Im actually surprised at how well the paint performed under IR light. That really puts a couple extra beans on the "paint it" side of the decision scale.
I always thought M81 Woodland wasn't as bad as people make it out to be in night vision, especially since, surprise, it was meant to be worn in woodland.
Outside, literally none of this shit matters. Go play hide and seek in the woods with your friends under nods. Hell, Just go look into a treeline. Everything in nature reflects light completely differently. Some leaves glow, others don't ect. Without the color spectrum, your eyes still can't pick anything out. You will not find your friends. And my tubes are very, very good. Urban environments are just as bad or worse. TLDR, the second you actually go outside and train, you'll very quickly realize that all of this IR shit doesn't matter at all. Hide from thermals. That shit matters.
I think the controlled inviroment would is good especially if you plan to.make this a series. One thing you could add though is some vegitation even if it is just some office plants. Leaves and grass are suprisingly bright under IR light.
Which most laundry detergents have in them. I use a minimal amount of Dawn dist soap on all stuff. Just enough to cut oils and loosen dirt, then double rinse.
I use distilled white vinegar and baking soda, I use it for my regular clothes as well since the detergent left on the clothes started giving me hives. No dryer sheets either it leaves a oily residue on clothes
An interesting test. The painted gear seemed to give less glow under the IR wash. But because camo is specifically designed for a particular environment, a fairer test would have been to stand them in front of representative backgrounds (e.g., brush, a tree line, gravel bank, etc.) on a moonless night. Camo worn outside the design parameter is a disaster waiting to happen.
Excellent video. Thanks for taking the time to put it together. What is the status of all the clothing? Are they all brand new old stock or your personal clothing? The reason I ask is because of the laundry detergent factor. The Army hit that hard when the UCP came out. When I was a broke private in the Army, I used the cheapest laundry detergent I could purchase at the PX. I can’t even begin to think of what my old Woodland BDU’s looked like under NODs.
Everything but the AOR2 Top & Multicam/OCP ECWCS Layers is used. Nothing overly faded. Wash wise, I can't speak to the lifetime of washes for everything, but anything that I've washed but done without optical brighteners. It's something we could test at a later point though!
M81 Woodland surplus gear varies a lot under NIR. I found that the LBV88 and the boonie have distinct colors with the black being less stand out than other M81 woodland gear. Could just be the ones I had though, manufacturers vary on the dyes they used.
So you actually painted some of your garmets and that bag?. You said rustoleum? It is good I found this as I have been considering painting the outer portion of a old backpack I have. It is a ripstop type fabric. Not sure how much paint is too much. Does it make a difference, in your opinion, under IR lighting?
I've painted pretty much anything and everything at this point. From rifles, pouches, accessories to clothes. It does well under NVGs, so long as the paint is set. Rifles probably have the heaviest coatings, in general I don't throw thick layers on gear though. If the material you're painting in the first place doesn't do well under NVGs, all the paint is going to do is improve the performance of the areas it's applied.
Thank you. It is an old Black Diamond daypack that is orange. I got it for backcountry skiing so orange was sensible. It does have exposed zippers, paint might help. Thank you again. I appreciate it.
Hey Lucas, since a lot of people (like myself) buy cheap surplus Army UCP and like to Rit Dye it brown or green, I've always wondered how it affects the IR capability, any chance you could touch on that?
Hello Sir, I would like to ask two manufacturers, Tru-spec and Propper, whether the US military camouflage uniforms 50 nylon/50 cotton sold to civilians, such as acu ocp woodland, etc., can have the same effect, or do the US military public-issued ones have other special features? It has been processed and has higher specifications than those sold to the private sector by Tru-spec and Prooper. Thanks for your help. Have a nice day.
One has to take in that the camo isnt used in a vacuum. A Snow camo uniform glows like the 4th of july which can be a deterrent ... if you have not looked at snow under nods .... snow under nods reflects 90-100% och the light so it is all fine. Id guess the same with sand, that it is light and a desert uniform IS SUPPOSED to be very bright under nods....
THIS IS THE CONTENT I WANT TO SEE I FUCKING LOVE VENTURE SURPLUS VIDEOS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I FUCKING LOVE PROPPER BDU 2.0 PANTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! CARGO POCKETS!
Very enjoyable. Protip for BRAND NEW gear... Let it sit in the sun for a week. It will sun bleach and fade the brand new plastic glowing that most new clothing/gear has.
First of all, I really appreciate your dedication to do the video. But I think it kinda defeats the purpose, the way it was made. You are comparing those camo agains a wall - a man made element. Testing them on the IR spectrum agains a wall is as helpful as testing them agains a wall in the full “day light” color spectrum. Different vegetation have a very specific IR brightness associated with it, so it’s important to compare camo patterns on THE natural environments where a specific camo patterns was made to work. Also, losing the pattern on IR is not good. Camouflage patterns should maintain patterns on visible and IR. Some of the patterns you have appear to be washed on soap with rinse aid. That will destroy most IRC properties the fabric originally have.
We did it indoors for a reason, to completely control all aspects of how everything will appear. I more than understand where you are coming from though, as the wall and indoor space can skew the results some. That said, this does give a pretty solid side by side baseline for all the patterns. We will be replicating this test outdoors, when weather permits good conditions. Appreciate your feedback a lot though, and will be taking it all into consideration for the next tests.
I think alot of folks are too much "into IR lighting"...after the first few months of war in Ukraine, they stopped using IR as much....with everyone having NVGs, IR is only going to show off your position just like carrying a flashlight at night.....make your weakness into a strength and their strength into a weakness, if we rely on IR to help us fight at night we will pay a heavy price. We're funny like that, humans
![Camouflaging Your Gear [OVERVIEW]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/JLLiGCBjbGM/mqdefault.jpg)
![US Army Combat Pants Overview [We Have Crye at Home]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/xqtJg7soBlk/mqdefault.jpg)
When I was in Marine Corps infantry in the 80's, we were told starched cammies glowed when viewed through night vision.
Yes, you want your combat attire to never be washed with any brighteners and no fabric sheets.
Same in the US Army reference starched BDUs. Which is why I had garrison uniforms and field uniforms. Starched glowed like goretex, IMHO.
Exactly @@josephvandyck5469
Supposedly, UCP was designed with night vision in mind; the black in woodland was specifically noted as standing out.
This was a nice comparison of camo patterns, but seeing them against some sort of vegetative background, even a camo net, would have been informative as well.
UCP is the top NIR performer in NATO testing, we also tested it and it was clearly the top performer, was also the top urban performer as well meaning in modern gray concrete jungle settings
Im actually surprised at how well the paint performed under IR light. That really puts a couple extra beans on the "paint it" side of the decision scale.
The outside testing would be helpful.
Coming soon
I always thought M81 Woodland wasn't as bad as people make it out to be in night vision, especially since, surprise, it was meant to be worn in woodland.
New production, high quality stuff does well. But I wouldn't roll the dice on surplus. No telling how much starch it saw.
Maybe, test this stuff in an outside environment ? How does it look in a tree line or hedgerow, or inside of a fighting position.
We will be
@@VentureSurpluscan’t wait
Outside, literally none of this shit matters. Go play hide and seek in the woods with your friends under nods. Hell, Just go look into a treeline. Everything in nature reflects light completely differently. Some leaves glow, others don't ect. Without the color spectrum, your eyes still can't pick anything out. You will not find your friends. And my tubes are very, very good.
Urban environments are just as bad or worse.
TLDR, the second you actually go outside and train, you'll very quickly realize that all of this IR shit doesn't matter at all.
Hide from thermals. That shit matters.
I think the controlled inviroment would is good especially if you plan to.make this a series. One thing you could add though is some vegitation even if it is just some office plants. Leaves and grass are suprisingly bright under IR light.
Which most laundry detergents have in them.
I use a minimal amount of Dawn dist soap on all stuff.
Just enough to cut oils and loosen dirt, then double rinse.
I use distilled white vinegar and baking soda, I use it for my regular clothes as well since the detergent left on the clothes started giving me hives. No dryer sheets either it leaves a oily residue on clothes
An interesting test. The painted gear seemed to give less glow under the IR wash. But because camo is specifically designed for a particular environment, a fairer test would have been to stand them in front of representative backgrounds (e.g., brush, a tree line, gravel bank, etc.) on a moonless night. Camo worn outside the design parameter is a disaster waiting to happen.
Excellent video. Thanks for taking the time to put it together. What is the status of all the clothing? Are they all brand new old stock or your personal clothing? The reason I ask is because of the laundry detergent factor. The Army hit that hard when the UCP came out. When I was a broke private in the Army, I used the cheapest laundry detergent I could purchase at the PX. I can’t even begin to think of what my old Woodland BDU’s looked like under NODs.
Everything but the AOR2 Top & Multicam/OCP ECWCS Layers is used. Nothing overly faded. Wash wise, I can't speak to the lifetime of washes for everything, but anything that I've washed but done without optical brighteners. It's something we could test at a later point though!
All the uniforms are clean.
What do they look under NV like after a couple of days (or weeks) in the field?
Laundry detergent also plays a role here
Thank you😺
M81 Woodland surplus gear varies a lot under NIR. I found that the LBV88 and the boonie have distinct colors with the black being less stand out than other M81 woodland gear. Could just be the ones I had though, manufacturers vary on the dyes they used.
Yes awesome content!!! Maybe a set of photos of the gear in the sales pictures under nods.
Also I still love the paint job!
You should definitely conduct these tests outside next time. I think that would make the tests more useful.
We're going to be.
So you actually painted some of your garmets and that bag?. You said rustoleum? It is good I found this as I have been considering painting the outer portion of a old backpack I have. It is a ripstop type fabric. Not sure how much paint is too much. Does it make a difference, in your opinion, under IR lighting?
I've painted pretty much anything and everything at this point. From rifles, pouches, accessories to clothes. It does well under NVGs, so long as the paint is set. Rifles probably have the heaviest coatings, in general I don't throw thick layers on gear though. If the material you're painting in the first place doesn't do well under NVGs, all the paint is going to do is improve the performance of the areas it's applied.
Thank you. It is an old Black Diamond daypack that is orange. I got it for backcountry skiing so orange was sensible. It does have exposed zippers, paint might help. Thank you again. I appreciate it.
What camp are you wearing
Great content I want some wooded footage .
We'll be eventually doing some woodland footage. The woods near us aren't quite ideal for it is all.
I get it completely. We appreciate the time y’all put into your videos. Thanks again.
@VenturaSurplus what OCP top are you wearing in this video
Old Crye G2 Field Top
i've heard merino wool is naturally NIR-- y'all should test some of the 100% wool items
UCP is the top NIR performer in NATO testing, IMHO its the best urban / nv camo out
Except UCP stands out in the visible spectrum.
@@theia1653 its actually pretty good when broken in, in actual use it picks up dirt and blends really well in my deserts and even woods
Hey Lucas, since a lot of people (like myself) buy cheap surplus Army UCP and like to Rit Dye it brown or green, I've always wondered how it affects the IR capability, any chance you could touch on that?
We'll do some testing at some point on that
Hello Sir, I would like to ask two manufacturers, Tru-spec and Propper, whether the US military camouflage uniforms 50 nylon/50 cotton sold to civilians, such as acu ocp woodland, etc., can have the same effect, or do the US military public-issued ones have other special features? It has been processed and has higher specifications than those sold to the private sector by Tru-spec and Prooper.
Thanks for your help.
Have a nice day.
I didn't know that woodland marpat was least liked I thought it was just me.
I Hawarden it to collection yet but probably will.
One has to take in that the camo isnt used in a vacuum. A Snow camo uniform glows like the 4th of july which can be a deterrent ... if you have not looked at snow under nods .... snow under nods reflects 90-100% och the light so it is all fine. Id guess the same with sand, that it is light and a desert uniform IS SUPPOSED to be very bright under nods....
THIS IS THE CONTENT I WANT TO SEE
I FUCKING LOVE VENTURE SURPLUS VIDEOS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I FUCKING LOVE PROPPER BDU 2.0 PANTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
CARGO POCKETS!
wish you did it outside about 25-50m in actual nature
Very enjoyable.
Protip for BRAND NEW gear... Let it sit in the sun for a week. It will sun bleach and fade the brand new plastic glowing that most new clothing/gear has.
Should do proper gear as well
First of all, I really appreciate your dedication to do the video. But I think it kinda defeats the purpose, the way it was made. You are comparing those camo agains a wall - a man made element. Testing them on the IR spectrum agains a wall is as helpful as testing them agains a wall in the full “day light” color spectrum. Different vegetation have a very specific IR brightness associated with it, so it’s important to compare camo patterns on THE natural environments where a specific camo patterns was made to work. Also, losing the pattern on IR is not good. Camouflage patterns should maintain patterns on visible and IR. Some of the patterns you have appear to be washed on soap with rinse aid. That will destroy most IRC properties the fabric originally have.
We did it indoors for a reason, to completely control all aspects of how everything will appear. I more than understand where you are coming from though, as the wall and indoor space can skew the results some. That said, this does give a pretty solid side by side baseline for all the patterns. We will be replicating this test outdoors, when weather permits good conditions. Appreciate your feedback a lot though, and will be taking it all into consideration for the next tests.
@@VentureSurplus Thanks for taking my critic the way it should be taken - constructively! You have a follower here. I will stay tuned!
I think alot of folks are too much "into IR lighting"...after the first few months of war in Ukraine, they stopped using IR as much....with everyone having NVGs, IR is only going to show off your position just like carrying a flashlight at night.....make your weakness into a strength and their strength into a weakness, if we rely on IR to help us fight at night we will pay a heavy price. We're funny like that, humans
Life after 4ID huh..
Ok that was cool. I honestly always wondered how it worked out under NVG. It would be cool to run the same test in the desert 🏜️ at night.