VC Andrews Theory: Which Parents were the Worst?? (411popCulture)
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- Опубліковано 5 вер 2024
- Attics. Willies. Hotels. Bayou. Incest. Join Justin and Danielle as they discuss V.C. Andrews' theories! On this episode, we discuss which parents were the worst from the Dollangangers to the Landrys with a little bit of Logan thrown in.
411popCulture
"Real People Talking About Really Everything"
Host/Director: Justin Steele
Guest: Danielle Almendra
(You can also find Justin at Wicked Horror: www.wickedhorro...
or on Twitter: / wkdhorrorjustin )
"Flowers in the Attic"
Released in 1987 by Fries Entertainment
Based on the novel by V.C. Andrews
Director: Jeffrey Bloom
Starring: Kristy Swanson, Louise Fletcher, Victoria Tennant, Jeb Adams
"Flowers in the Attic/Petals on the Wind/If There be Thorns/Seeds of Yesterday" Dollanganger Saga
Released in 2014 and 2015 by Lifetime Pictures
Based on the novels by V.C. Andrews
"Heaven/Dark Angel/Fallen Hearts/Gates of Paradise/Web of Dreams"
Released by Lifetime Pictures in 2019
Based on the novels by V.C. Andrews released by Simon & Schuster
Starring: Annalise Basso, Jason Priestley, James Rittinger, Jessica Clement, and Julie Benz
Heaven Director: Paul Shapiro
Dark Angel Director: Paul Shapiro
Fallen Hearts Director: Jason Priestley
"Ruby/Pearl in the Mist/All that Glitters/Hidden Jewel"
Released in 2021 by Lifetime Pictures
Based on the novels by V.C. Andrews
Starring: Raechelle Banno, Karina Banno, Ty Wood, Sam Duke, and Naomi Judd
Carries fate always made me sad and angry, i wanted her to marry that young man, go off and be happy somewhere.. at least cathy and chris had memories of life outside the attic from before, all carrie would have remembered from her early childhood would be the attic..
Very true. Every time I re-read the novels, I hope that somehow it's all going to be different, or somehow work out for everyone. Carrie's story is definitely of the more heartbreaking and tragic. Thank you for the comment.
@@411popCulturevideos yw. i was like come on vc andrews give Carrie a break
@@411popCulturevideos Poor Carrie, after Cory, that was the most tragic of all the deaths in the books. One thing I've noticed is that Cathy's feelings and struggles were very similar to Carrie's, they just dealt with them differently. Cathy focused on revenge, while Carrie battled depression and thought that she was evil and no good. Losing Cory was a huge blow, along with being locked away, terrorized, malnourished, deprived of sunlight.
Plus, she didn't have Cathy's backbone and spite. When the final blow of her mother's rejection came, it broke poor Carrie.
@@Muirmaiden Cathy did ignore poor Carrie so she could bed Paul. Chris ignored Carrie so he could get Cathy. Paul and Henny tried to give Carrie sanity and a good life, but she couldn't accept it. In her mind, all she knew was: her dad was dead; her mother killed Cory and tried to kill her, and then denied Carrie in public; Cathy and Chris were too busy having an on again/off again/on again/off again twisted relationship when she really needed her siblings. The only person to give her (the wrong) attention was child sex offender Julian - - who probably helped to push Carried over the cliff. With all of that weighing on her, she couldn't rish Alex condemning her and putting the final nail in her coffin, so she did it for him.
Malcolm was the worst father ever. Pure evil
Thank you for the comment! Malcolm certainly was very evil.
In my opinion I think that the two worst parents in all these books are Corrine and Gillian.
So for Corrine I would say it is because she tortured her children allowed them to be locked up for years killed one of them and tried to kill the rest. Pretty easy to understand there. All she cared about was herself she threw away her family for her new life and that is horrible.
Now as for Jillian I think that she may not of been the worst grandmother But she absolutely was one of the worst mothers. She basically handed her teenage daughter off to her husband because she didn’t want to deal with him. She allowed and even encouraged her husband to assault her daughter. And then when her daughter tried to come to her for help she rejected her completely.
Jillian is definitely a TERRIBLE mother. How she treated Leigh was deplorable. Just awful. One of the few things I thought the Lifetime Casteel adaptation did well was the relationship between Jillian and Leigh. Obviously in the book, it was even worse, but I felt that they captured the essence of what a terrible mother Jillian was to Leigh. And of course, Corrine is just terrible terrible terrible. Thank you for the comments!
Jillian is a horrific character. How cold hearted can someone be? Losing her mind was the least she deserved.
Jillian Tatterton turns my stomach. What she did to her daughter, what she ALLOWED to happen to her daughter....that's pure evil. Poor Leigh. She had nobody to turn to. Alone in an absolute nightmare.
So true. Jillian is definitely one of the worst. She was frustrating as a grandmother, but when reading "Web of Dreams," I want to scream.
Corrine. She actually tried to kill them, although she denied it later. I think Luke was horrible. In reality he wouldn't have been a decent person to Leigh, mistreat her daughter, and then have a 180, again, later. He mistreated everyone in his life. Those kids lived in absolute squalor, (not portrayed in the series and only ate twice a day. Gravy and biscuits. Always hungry. Not even a quarter for a lunch in school.
I hated Luke and I never understood why Heaven wanted to patch things up with him. He even chose a circus over Heaven.
@@pleasedroses3811 Same., the tv series didn't go into the book about Luke and where he put his money, and how neglectful he was, so I don't want to spoil it for people who may decide to read it. I never understood why Heaven wanted to reconcile with him after being such a terrible parent to her and her younger siblings. If he could run a circus, he could have done more for his kids and Sarah. Total narcissist.
@@Baffled-f9d
🔔 SPOILERS AHEAD! 🔔
Tony sold Luke his circus on the condition that Luke refused contact with Heaven.
Also, Luke knocked up Sarah with Tom and he only married Sarah after Leigh died. I was stunned when someone explained to me that Luke had cheated on Leigh.
@@pleasedroses3811 Yeah, do you notice how Luke is only happy when he gets what he wants? If he truly loved Leigh would treat her child that way? He gets his new circus after making a deal with Tony gives it to him under certain conditions, and a new, young wife, and Drake. Ironically, Drake grows up and is very loyal to Tony when he's older, because there's a good financial future for himself.
@@Baffled-f9d
MORE SPOILERS AHEAD!!!
I actually loathed Heaven by the end of her series after she used Tony and threw him aside after she got what she wanted from him. She also cheated on Logan with Cal and Troy, and then she blamed Cal for their fling. Nothing was ever her fault. Logan deserved better.
Corrine, Damian, and Jillian! Lucietta was no prize, either, but since she died quite early in MSA, we definitely see more of Damian than of her. I know Corrine attempted to redeem herself but she was awful in the first two books. Jillian had no redeeming qualities whatsoever, IMO. Edited to add, Tony - ugh! So controlling and creepy.
I know that Lucietta really did love Audrina, but I will say that when I think about it, somehow that fact makes what she did worse in a way. Of course, I agree with everyone that you mentioned above, but what they all did was so obviously wrong. With Lucietta, it's scarier somehow because it shows how someone that loves you can do you intense, life-changing harm with the best of intentions. The other ones are definitely the worst, but something to think about. As always, thanks for the comments!!
It was interesting that Corinne followed Cathys ballet career...
You are so right!! I really wish I had thought to bring that up in the episode! That is actually one of my favorite things to find out in POTW. And I think it totally adds an extra layer to Corinne. Especially because even at the best of times, she and Cathy had a strained relationship. So, the fact that she still wanted to see her daughter perform after everything is very interesting.
@@411popCulturevideos Or her secret blue photo album. She must have kept it in some safe to which Bart didn't have the combination. I guess that was one of the extremes of post-FITA Corinne. The other extreme was the parties. All she did was go to parties.
@@thomasfranche6770 LOL so true. She LOVED a party. But yeah, with the blue album. She must have kept it somewhere safe from Bart. That being said, I always liked the idea of it, but I always have to suspend my disbelief with the blue album. What I mean is that Bart talks about how crazy it made him to not know more about Corinne's past, and I find it hard to believe that the "brute" that he is (according to Cathy) that he did not ever try to grab it from her real quick! Or at least sneak a peek!
I did not like Bart either.. another violent arrogant man snorting around Cathy. like a truffle pig. lll😅
It was probably guilt. Deep down she regretted what she did and wanted to see her daughter anyway she could. Too late to take it back though. She screwed up big time.
Flowers in the attic was just sad to me like how can you treat your own kids like that
Corinne was just weak and lost. She didn't have any 'grit.' She was, adored, coddled, and fawned over, never having to greet the type of hardship or responsibility that hones people. If you read ' Garden of Shadows' she even admits that to ' Olivia[ the grandmother]' that she provided her with enough of an example of strength and fortitude (as she puts it).
The grandfather knew about the grandkids. He had a private investigator check on Corrine and Christopher,Sr. and the kids. His codicil in the will that stipulated that if Corrinne was found to have kids by her first or second husband, she would be disinherited. It is not the kids fault who their parent's relationship is/ why punish the grandkids? The grandmother(both versions) was horrid!
I'm so happy I stumbled upon your channel, this has brought back so much nostalgia! I used to collect the novels and had a lovely growing collection of first editions, and now I really want to collect the books again and reread them.
Thank you so much! Your comment means so much to us! Danielle and I have been friends for over 23 years now, and our friendship started because of our love for VC Andrews! So, to trigger your nostalgia for VC Andrews means so much to us. We have many, many more VC Andrews-related episodes coming soon! Especially with all the new adaptations coming to Lifetime soon!
I agree about Corinne. I would say she is the worst. It's like that dream Cathy had, when the witch in Hansel and Gretel turned into Corinne, who was throwing Cory/Carrie into the oven. And of course, that moment when Carrie ran up to her always stuck in my mind. She grabbed her hand on the street and Corinne shot cold eyes on Carrie and said "I don't know you!" Following that, Cathy's reaction : "Oh Carrie, don't let her do this to you!" But, as Cathy said, Corinne helped kill Carrie as she killed Cory.
Yes, Luke Casteel is no good, but I see his neglect and awful-ness as more banal. He just couldn't be bothered with the kids.
I often forget about Damien and Lucky. While they did love Audrina, the whole main plot-line of telling her that she was someone else (the 2nd and worst Audrina) is very twisted. I don't know how Arden ever went along with it. Or his legless mother. And Vera, whom I see as more of victim, despite her sins against Audrina, is redeemed from my point of view. Lamar just used her and then cast her aside, Damien didn't love her, her own mother, Ellsbeth didn't love her (remember when Vera miscarried on a valuable rug and all Ellsbeth could tell her was to make sure she soaked it in cold water and how it was good that she miscarried?).
I'll skip the Culter and Landry series (though I agree with you both about Pierre and Randolph), but as for Melody, yes, it was much more tame. Haillee was like a hybrid of Corinne and Jillian, though much less interesting. The thing that was the most interesting in the Logan series was the mystery around Laura. She had a Heaven-Troy kind of whirlwind romance with Robert Royce, and they both ended up tragically dying at sea. I remember Olivia said over her dead body: "In a strange way, I envy you, my dear." However, none of the parents were all that terrible in the Logan series. Anything beyond Melody, I have no comment.
I always LOVED Cathy's dreams! And, I love how Christopher eventually started listening to Cathy and her dreams; albeit, too late. I love the Hansel and Gretel dream, as well as the dream with Cory reuniting with Chris, Sr. on the pathway to Heaven. The Hansel and Gretel dream, though, is so disturbing!
I 100 percent agree that the most interesting part of the Logan series was they mystery surrounding Laura!! And, I did appreciate that Andrew Neiderman did slightly deviate from the normal formula by following what happened to Laura in "Music of the Night," which I did think was a nice story.
Danielle and I definitely analyze Vera in our next episode on "Which Siblings were the Worst?" I will say briefly here that I do think there was a lot to pity with Vera, and I start to forgive her a little, when Danielle reminds me of some behavior of Vera in her later years that does swing me back into "villain" territory for Vera. As we discussed in depth during our "My Sweet Audrina" review, it was one of the strongest traits of the novels actually written by Virginia Cleo Andrews, that her protagonists and antagonists were never all good or all bad. They had a lot of depth and complexity unlike some of the more two-dimensional characters in the later ghostwritten novels. As always, thanks for the comments!
Corinne's "redemption" was always meaningless to me because it was so focused on Bart. She clearly viewed him as the child she and Bart Sr. would have had, and her fixation felt so similar to how she favored Chris back in the day, that it really didn't feel like she'd changed at all other than just growing old and not having the opportunities she had when she was still a beautiful, young heiress.
I’m about a year late to this party, but I’m so glad I found it!
Obviously, Corrine is the worst, her weakness, vanity, and greed overcame any maternal instinct she ever had. She needed the adoration of a man more than that of her kids. Even though were moments where she knew she did the wrong thing (the post office, her going to Cathy’s performances, the photo album), she would never be redeemed. I think if Chris Sr had lived, she would have eventually left him and went back home. They were deep in debt, and it was only a matter of time before he put his foot down in order to care for the kids.
Tony is my choice for 2nd worse, just yuck. Everything about him sucked. He kept her from Troy on the pretense that they were uncle and niece, but his real motivation was wanting her for himself. His love for her predicated on her resemblance to her mother. And really, Troy’s love for her had its roots in his love for Leigh, too.
Luke is a weird one for me. While I felt sorry for him sometimes, because he always aspired to more and Leigh’s death caused him to spiral out for years. But I could never forget that when Heaven was the only one left, it got…weird…for a bit. He saw her resemblance to her mother and, even if she didn’t know, he knew they weren’t related. If it wasn’t for Grandpa Toby knowing exactly where this was heading and urging Luke to get her out of there, he would have done it, and he would never have been able to pull himself out of that life. It would have ruined Heaven in the process, too. I always thought his reluctance to connect with her in later years was because he was embarrassed by how close he came to crossing that line, even though it never seemed to occur to Heaven. He was yet another man whose only love for her was because of her mother.
I never thought of it before, but it’s interesting that the men projected their love for Leigh onto Heaven, but the women projected their hate and jealousy for Leigh on her (Kitty and Jillian).
Welcome to the party! Thank you so much for the comments. You brought up something that I never really thought about before and that is how the Dollangangers were in a lot of debt. Obviously Corrine and Chris Sr. were optimistic that it would all work out, but you are right. There are a thousand other things that could happen other than the car accident that could lead Corrine heading back to her parents.
I agree with everything you have said. Especially about the sad fate of Heaven to be adored by the men and hated by the women simply for her resemblance to her mother. The only men that 100 percent loved Heaven for Heaven were Logan and Tom. Logan was definitely a problematic character, but at least he did love her for herself. Even Troy was affected by Leigh in a way that would cross over to his feelings for Heaven. Tom, of course, too which if you have not checked out our "Heaven's True Love?" episode, we go into a little bit. Thank you again for watching!
I would say it’s a tie between Corrine & Tony. The reason it’s even a tie is because Corrine saved Cathy. Otherwise, she would have been the worst.
Thank you for the comment! I am definitely seeing a trend of agreement surrounding Corrine. And I am definitely with you on Tony. We've got some more VC Andrews episodes coming soon!
Luke didn't hit Heaven, but don't forget he was going to molest her (when the other kids were sold and she was the only one left) until his father stopped him.
Absolutely! Good point!
One of the characters from the Dollanganger series i hated the most was Julian Marquet, but Cathy did use him to advance her career.. she was manipulative like Corinne in her own way.. I did want Julian to suffer more for his actions than he did, that creep.............
Julian was the worst! You bring up an interesting point that Cathy was a bit like Corinne in that way. There's no excuse for what Julian did, but that is interesting to think about. Similar to our "Heaven's True Love" episode, we plan on doing a "Who was Cathy's True Love" episode next (should be up in a few weeks). I already know my pick, and I am pretty sure I know Danielle's...but we will see. I won't reveal who they are yet, but no surprise here, mine is not Julian. Ugh.
I loathed Julian!
@@pleasedroses3811 me 2
I agree, Julian was awful! I was so mad at Cathy for marrying him!
Julian was a messed up guy . A pedo. weird. .. lonely.. not loved. Cathy should have run screaming from all the guys she knew.
It wasn't the kids fault their parents were related the grandma made me upset but corrine allowed it so she could have inheritance disgusting 😤
So true. V.C. Andrews said she took inspiration from the terrible things we see in the news every day, as well as her own feelings on religious hypocrisy. This is based on true events (which the website Attic Secrets 79 goes into) where this mother locked up her kids in an attic for years and years. It was not for immense wealth, but from what I remember, was simply to avoid having to pay extra rent in the places they resided. I do my best to believe the best in people, but there are definitely terrible, terrible people out there.
Corrine and Olivia, Malcom: "Worst Parent/Grandparents, Ever"!
Foxworths = Malcolm bullied his sons and put a codicil in his Last Will that prevented Corinne from inheriting if she ever had children.
Dollanganger = Chris was a great parent; Corinne decided to kill her children so she could inherit a vast fortune. She killed Cory and drove Carrie to suicide.
Sheffield = Paul sucked as a husband to Julia, but he loved his son Scotty; Julia hated Paul, so she murdered Scotty to destroy her husband.
Rosencoff = Typical stage parents who wanted the best for their son, so they eliminated everything from his life except ballet. Creepy that Marisha knew about Julian bedding teenage girls.
Dollanganger-Sheffield = Actually, Chris and Cathy were great parents . . . until John Amos moved in next door. Still, all things considered, they held that family together.
Marquet = Jory was an excellent parent; Melodie . . . the best thing she ever did was leave the twins.
Adare = I don't think there was a worse father on Earth than Damian Adare. He beat his wife, drove Vera to madness, caused Sylvia's birth defect, and emotionally abused Audrina.
Casteel = Toby and Annie were good parents. Luke was a snake who gave his wife a venereal disease and then sold his children to the highest bidders/Sarah did what she could.
Dennison = Cal was okay . . . until he wasn't/Kitty was a psycho who gave Heaven to Cal. Kitty's mother should've been arrested and given the death penalty.
Tatterron = Tony should've been in the cell with Kitty's mother. Jillian sold her daughter to Tony so he would stop coming to her for sex.
Casteel/Stonewall = Fanny turned out to be an okay parent to Luke; Logan and Heaven were good parents To Annie and Drake.
I'm not getting into the other books.
I think the worst was Corinne. The second worst was Kitty, because of how she burned Heaven in the bathtub.
Thank you for the comment! Yes, those two were just AWFUL!!!
@@411popCulturevideos Thank you, yes! And I’ll also add that Kitty also let her husband molest Heaven, as did Jillian of Leigh. They were definitely two of the worst!
@@nancyhey1012 For sure! Lol as you can tell during these episodes (the "Worst of" VC Andrews characters), Danielle and I tend to find as we keep going that most of them did something just awful. But Kitty was definitely bad. I tend to overlook her sometimes because she is just in the one novel, but there was a lot of messed up stuff she did. All that you mentioned but also all the mental trauma she caused Heaven, too. Especially considering the trauma that Heaven just came from with losing her brothers and sisters. Yikes.
Where can I watch the movies your screenshots are from?
Hmmm, well, I own most of them on Blu-ray or DVD. But, some of them are available on streaming services or UA-cam, etc.
Corrine hands down, but Lillian's dad Jed Booth, if we wanna go into the backstories of the grandparents, was THE ABSOLUTE WORST!
Oh, absolutely, Jed Booth is terrible. Just terrible. I just re-read Darkest Hour and he was beyond sickening. Thank you for the comment!
Corrine was horrible. She was spoiled rotten as a girl and she and Christopher lived beyond their means. Jillian (Leigh Van Voreen's Mother) in Web Of Dreams The Prequel of The Casteel Series, was just as bad. She wanted to be married to Tony to have The Glamorous Life. For a long time I thought Sarah (Luke's Wife) was bad but she lived in the shadow of a Woman that her husband never got over. Not to compare in any form, shape or way but look at Diana Ross, she had some of the worst relationships with men. Her Father didn't support her dream of being an entertainer, Berry Gordy did whom she met at 16 to his 31. In 1983 she told her Daughter Rhonda that Berry was her Real Father. She had an affair with Smokey Robinson before The Supremes hit the big time that Smokey finally admitted several months ago when his Album Gasm was released. Her First Husband Bob was known more as Mr. Diana Ross, her second husband never achieved in America what he achieved in Europe, he was from Norway. Now she's alone. Luke was so traumatized by Angel's Death, he carried it with him and he made his family pay. He ignored her because he realized that he allowed his macho pride to get in the way. Angel suggested that she get help from their father but he vetoed it, he may have felt if he hadn't allowed his macho pride to get in the way things would have been different.
We have an upcoming theory episode that will discuss a little bit about Sarah. I don't want to spoil it here, but we (and some others in previous comments) have a few ideas about her in a different context.
Corinne
I've only read the Dollangangers, the mother, her mother and father; horrid!
I hate that Lifetime screws up the characters. I believe a writer when describing a character in detail it's for a reason. I guess I just couldn't handle that Heaven had reddish brown hair, which we know she had black hair. Then Leigh has black hair which we know she had Silvery Platinum Blonde
We agree completely! For the novels that were actually written by Virginia, the hair color was incredibly important. I think for some authors and their stories it is not a big deal for some changes, but for Virginia, it was extremely important and essential. We though the "Leigh" actress from Web of Dreams would have been a wonderful Heaven. It was frustrating to see this dark-haired girl that was pretty close to the image that Virginia described, but utilized her as Leigh instead of Heaven. Thank you for the comment, and we agree completely!
Corrine is definitely the worst.
corine form flowers and Tony from heaven
Corrinne .. gets the award for. worst mummy ever! Luke Casteel is sulking.. but only a runner up
I'm currently reading out of the rain. The father in that story is shady as all hell.
Corrine was evil.
We know what happened to Cory they wrote a book about him
If you believe it. We are basing it off the original novels that were written by the actual VC Andrews and the ambiguity that she left his ultimate fate. However, if you choose to believe that route, then that is totally cool. That is really the point of the theory episodes. For fun. And to foster conversation. Thanks for the comment!
@@411popCulturevideos oh ok. Yeah I just followed the books
@@eustacelongbottom9672 For sure! I am not sure if you are also basing your comment on just what we said in this episode about "Worst Parents." We went into much more detail about it all in the "What really happened to Cory" episode we did. Including the "Secret Brother" books in which Cory is alive.
The worst father is Luke Casteel he sold his kids and then the worst mom was Jillian