Is SELVEDGE Denim BETTER?
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- Опубліковано 9 бер 2021
- Is selvedge denim better? I get asked the question a lot . And to be honest, there is no easy answer. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't... it is entirely dependent on what you are looking for in a pair of jeans. With this video, I hope to give you a little background knowledge along with some questions to ask yourself to help you decide if selvedge denim is better for YOU.
What makes selvedge denim, selvedge denim? 01:20
Myth Busting non selvedge denim: 05:18
Myth 1. The Self Edge doesn't fray: 03:26
Myth 2. Denim woven on shuttle looms is more tightly woven: 04:18
Myth 3. Selvedge Denim is more durable: 05:12
The questions to ask yourself when deciding on selvedge or non selvedge denim: 07:46
Looking for a pair of selvedge denim jeans? Check out our curated list of stores we know and trust to bring you the very best denim as well and other amazing products: ceearedee.com/sales-list/
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Think this is your best video yet? Extremely coherent, great structure and clear conclusions. Superb job.
Wow, thanks! Very much appreciate the kind words :)
Finally, I have my question answered. And the answer is as expected. I recently bought a pair of selvedge jeans from Kato, as I, around 2 months ago, found out and did some studying on selvedge denim. I found that if I'm looking for quality denim, looking at selvedge will filter out a lot of the crap. Selvedge doesn't directly imply higher quality, but it does correlate with it. And I was really pulling out the wallet after my nightmare with luckybrand's black jeans. That brand makes their clothes out of chewed up wet tissue paper, and their jeans are the worst offenders. They came de-threaded on the hems and pockets, stitching freyed and appearing as if someone's cat got to them. And they faded to white around the points of tention within a few months. Absolute nightmare. But hopefully with Kato, I'll have a black pair that's well-crafted. My blue pair from The Buckle are the highest quality, best fitting, and most comfortable jeans I've ever own or tried on. And they look like they did when I bought them brand new 5 years ago. I hope these jeans from Kato can meet, or at least come close meeting, those expectations.
Which ones did you get? / you happy with Kato?
Never knew of this. Now I do. Thanks for the lesson. Most likely I will never come across this because I always look for the least expensive product. But now my curiosity is peaked and I will be looking at this stitching that I was never aware of before.
Fabulous video. Honest, informative and very interesting. You’re totally right, we love to display our cuffed selvedge so those in-the-know know we know. 😁
Thanks buddy. Appreciate it. Haha. Yeah we do like to pop that cuff
I have some heavyweight selvedge 21.5oz and 18oz that I know are durable and will hold up well because of my time in them, BUT I also have some lighter Cone Mills selvedge that got a hole in the thigh from a tiny abrasion when I picked up some firewood. I have Levis I've worn for 10+ years that are still looking brand new without a single rip or hole to be found. To that end I've also had other mass produced jeans that the bottom cuffs ripped from walking, had holes from pocket carry, etc. It all boils down to the amount of effort and quality they decide to put into the denim.
I would still say it's better so I can justify it to my wife why Im paying so much more than if I just bought regular denim. hehe..
Bahahahaha... Love it!
Me and u both😂
I’ve been a selvage denim fan for a few years now, lots of nudie jeans and vintage redline Levi’s in the collection... but if we’re talking favorite denim in a fabric sense, it would be my pair of raw denim Kevlar blend jeans from Mr. Clarke x The Shop Vancouver. Fades really nicely and the denim is dense, plus the Kevlar will make them last really long. If you’re looking for the heritage, classic, nostalgia route, Left Field NYC makes great reproductions of jeans from the 50s in both styling and fabric choice. But there are many non-selvage jeans that have those same great qualities!
Left Field NYC guys do a super good job. I love their more modern fits too!
Awesome video. Selvedge denim to me is a heuristic I use to find quality denim. Obviously it’s a lot more nuanced like you stated in the video, but it’s a good starting point if you’re getting into nicer denim
So true! It is a great jump off point fr quality clothing overall.
Prison Blues are non selvedge Raw Denim priced at 50 bucks. The use a double chain stitch on the inside and a folded overlock on the outside. Made in USA. Fabric is second to none at the price point. They are popular here in the pnw with loggers, partly because they come with suspender buttons. I've seen amazing fades from their "rigid" series. They also offer washed.
I like how you know the weight of selvedge denim. It’s a key difference. If you prefer a heavyweight or lightweight you know what you’re getting into.
This all helps me understand my humble mint-condition late 90s boot fit Gap jeans are not selvage, are not bad quality, are far from being like new $400 jeans today & are regardless a robust and well-made product compared to anything affordable made today.
I will check out the whole next level selvage thing simply for the weight and character of these… with an idea of owning some pairs a really long time, not creating landfill.
Great channel. I could make this comment on any video from this channel. Thanks for your hard work.
also recommend Neuw. They're a flawless fit.
My Selvedge Denim Collection Includes:
GAP
2 pair from H&M (From a few years back when they actually sold them for around $70)
Uniqlo is on my list next
Nice honest breakdown. The selvedge doesn't have to be utilised when using selvedge denim, the edges can be overlocked or doubled over like carpenter work jeans, but it's the same fabric. I wonder how may people would know it's actually selvedge denim with the absence of the selvedge? Asket makes jeans from non selvedge raw Japanese denim that's overlocked using brown/orange thread like the early '80s Levi's. The denim fades nicely and looks as good as a lot of selvedge denim out there. I like the fact that they've taken this approach.
Very true. I’m actually getting a pair of very old iron hearts. The original 21 oz denim doesn’t seem to have been selvedge. Super curious to see them.
@@CeeAreDee Non selvedge Iron Hearts, sounds interesting. I've been wearing non selvedge 1980s/90s Levi's 501 shrink to fit in recent years - made in USA & UK. I like them because the fabric now looks different from the denim today. The '90s made in USA ones still start off fluffy on the surface. Prices are getting high for deadstock ones though!
@@brianfindlay4280 that’s interesting, because some particularly nice style Gap Boot Style jeans I got 23 years ago now do look really different VS today’s comparable stuff. The creases and the lie of firmer, heavier denim is so great. These stand out…
Dead mint, put away and forgot about these 3 pairs because they ‘fit uncomfortable’ at the time and I didn’t know they would break in so well.
yes. it is,. lol personally between Baldwin, Nudie, APC & Agave, the majority of my trousers are selvedge. I'd argue that so long as the brand is premium, selvedge isn't necessarily better as much a complement to any collection.
Great video. I’m new to selvedge denim, G-Star RAW are selling 13oz Japanese raw selvedge denim jeans with lifetime warranty, offering repairs to hems, crotch, buttons, zips etc, the jeans are under £200, actually £133 in the sale. Do you know if these jeans are good quality and worth the price? It seems a really good deal. Thanks
I’m late to the chat but this is very interesting. Got my first pair of Japanese jeans last week (Samurai’s). The history and attention to detail is what I liked. Just got some new boots and thought I’d step up my denim game and down the rabbit hole I went. 👖🐇 🕳️
One of the things I enjoy about selvedge denim is buying the different brands. In my ‘collection’ I have, Iron heart, Pure Blue, Brave ⭐️, Momotaro and Jo&Co . I’d like a pair of Samurai next 😀
Nice, you have a pair of Jo&Co too... they are amazing jeans! Good collection you have there.
How do you think Bravestar stack up against the more expensive brands? My 15oz Ironside Jacket by Bravestar is my favourite piece in my wardrobe.
@@Paddythefriendlykiwi The most expensive jeans I have are Pure Blue which cost nearly £300. They are soft and beautifully made, not surprisingly they are better than Bravestar. I paid about £100 for Bravestar jeans. They are great for everyday use, although I bought black which I probably wouldn’t do again. Great value but then so are Jo&Co considering the detail they put into their jeans. I think I paid about £150 for J&Co ?
@@Known-unknowns yeh. I have the Bravestar Black and the 18oz Slubverters which are fading beautifully. The black are going to take a lot of work to break.
I will get the Pure Blue Japan's at some point, but I have to say, Bravestar's Indigo denim, especially on their jackets and jeans is a very different beast from the black. I'll check Jo&Co. Cheers.
I just got into selvedge jeans myself, I've started with Naked & Famous and have a few different pairs of them, they fit me well but I found some of the stitching to be coming loose or undone already and I've barely owned or worn any of them for long.
I just ordered Bravestar to see how those will be as well, I'm looking to see what's a good next brand or something to try though
Same, I NEED all the Naked and Famouse Color Core series. Like the Red and Rainbow Core. Also looking at getting a Samsung Air Dresser to prolong them haha
Got to wet those bitches up! If you don’t wet the jeans- the fibers can loosen without much use. If you wet the jeans the fibers get bound together. Not a wash. Just a soak.
I have a 21 oz Iron Heart indigo denim jacket, started to fade like a dream.
Nice! 21oz in a jacket is ok?
so i would put it this way:
the best regular demin is as good as the best selvedge
on the spectrum of denim, selvedge ranges from good to best.
on the spectrum, regular denim ranges from worst to best
so in a double blind test, if you were presented a selvedge jean, you can rest assured its at least a good pair of jeans
but with regular jeans you dont know what end of the soectrum you're at
Very very true indeed
Awww... hugs!
I’m typically a Levi’s guy lol so I’m here now to figure out if I should level up with my bonus… I stay in Raleigh Nc… we have Raleigh denim workshop here ..
I read recently one of the Osaka5, ,I think it was the Resolute dude was saying that some brands are damaging the looms buy slackening them off to make super slubby fabric and this will shorten the lifespan of the already rare looms!
I can very much imagine that. Loosening bolts that were meant to be tight to introduce loom chatter will increase the wear on the machines. It is a ver good point. Cheers Col.
@@CeeAreDee I also read something about the wooden floors in the cone mills factory were inherent in the "Loom Chatter"..it is hard to work out what is actually a fact about fabric manufacture or just some Hipster PR made up shite.
rick owens and dior use selvedge denim i wear a 2004 slab pair and a 2001 i believe hedi slimane pair and both have stood the test of time
Super interesting :) thank you :) as a cost sensitive student I am always wondering what pair of jeans you would consider the most durable (not necessarily selveged or raw) for under 100€. Of course I saw your video about the best brand under 100$ yet I found them particularly difficult to obtain here in Germany :) Thanks in advance
Jan
Diamond Gusset is a great company and so is Dearborn Denim
Hey Jan, totally understand. Yeah it is tricky to find these things over here for under 100 euros. Have you tried e-bay or e-bay kleinanzeigen? They are great places to find very good pieces for goodprices.
@@CeeAreDee thanks for the reply :) I have tried to search on the EBay platforms and have been quiet successful with suits, high quality denim in my size however still appears to be scarce :,( Guess I will add that to my “buy in the US“ list :D
@@jan-niklasalves4409 cultizm the website is good place to look at in Germany, and if you keep your eyes on their sales, you could get some under 100. Check on the materials to be 100 cotton if you want them to be more durable.
In Germany you have pike brothers , they’re priced higher than €100 but sometimes you can find some pieces on sale.
Then you can check unbranded brand.
Also a used pair from eBay can be a good choice .
If you want to stay really on budget you can try Gap and Uniqlo . Just to become confident with no wash and fades
So is double RL recommended?
NudieJeans does some non Selvedge raw jeans which are pretty good for around €100.
Epic intro.
Good day to u sir 🍻
Same to you
I love SELVEDGE denim jeans and jackets I got from SODA DENIM in Sandton, made in South Africa
Don’t know soda denim. I’ll have to take a look.
What if I don't want sick fades? Is there a way to keep the jeans looking new? I like how the jeans look new.
Sadly not really. Indigo will always fade eventually.
yes
But not always 😉
I imagine one who knows denim fabric, like one who works in leather and understands leather-grades, would know ''quality'' denim when they see it, regardless of 'selvedge' or not.
Very true.
so true man.
Hey buddy new sub here. Im 41 and been looking at selvedge a lot lately and i love it. Thank you so much for your honesty about selvedge. What do think would be a good first pair? I really like the brand samurai and iron hart and a few more. Any suggestions for a first pair ? Have a great day great video to. I should tell you what kind of style i like i love levis 511 and levis 512.
Has to be pbj
Samurai
Thanks for the sub! Really appreciate it! Did you see the vid I did on "The BEST SELVEDGE DENIM JEANS for BEGINNERS!"? ua-cam.com/video/BIkpWjhuVl8/v-deo.html That might be useful for you.
I love Iron Heart and Sams, but they just might be a bit on the heavy side for your first pair.
Where is it you are based. I might be able to give you a couple of pointers.
@@CeeAreDee Redding California that's in Northern California. It's pretty hot here in the summer sometimes it gets 110 and over. We are in the valley. Thank you so much for responding. Have a great day.
6:40 Here is the answer
I actually will opt for selvedge jeans , but I don’t cuff them. Not that I object to the look, but I just don’t like the fraying that occurs from the creases.
That crease will actually create a hole through the denim over time, especially if the jeans are stiff / raw when cuffed !
Very true. A very good argument for getting them hemmed.
I have a pair of Levi's 501 shrink to fits non-selvedge that I've had for over a year now. I wore them almost every day for about 7 months from August 2019 going into 2020 before the pandemic hit. My goal was to wear them every day for a year straight but the pandemic derailed me halfway through, now I'm gonna wear them 365 non-consecutive instead.
But even though they're a budget pair of raw denim I got because I wanted to be part of the raw denim club, and also have the opportunity to wear in some denim and get some nice fades, they have pretty nice quality for only being $50 US that I got at the mall on a whim one day.
I've been intrigued with raw selvedge denim for a few years now but my 501 stf's do the job pretty damn well even though they're not the coveted selvedge. They also somehow wore in train-tracks that show through just like you'd get with selvedge lol
501 stf's, I guess that they could be considered the most "authentic" jeans of them all ;)
Case where did you get it? i need a 14 oz made in México 501 stf...thanks pal
@@antoniobranco8005 I just went to the Levi's outlet, so you can just get them anywhere
@@MrDedpool1 really dificult to get god material stf in Europe.If its made in Mexico we know its cone
@@antoniobranco8005 Interesting
Interesting video! BTW, how can Uniqlo sell proper selvedge jeans for 40 bucks? They recently released a video on their uniqlousa channel explaining how it's done. Seems proper selvedge, even heavier than your standard Levi's at 13,5 oz. Ykk zipper, etc. Sure it must be far from the best ones, the dyeing I'm sure is as fast as possible ecc. Still, they must loose money on it or close. Newbie here, just trying to understand the game. Peace
Interesting. Thanks for the heads up on the video. Uniqlo is a huge company so what they lose on manufacturing (if anything) I'm sure they make up for elsewhere (employee salaries, distribution, warehousing, volume sold, etc.) Most dedicated denim companies have a very small staff, limited retail space, and have to pay a premium for their denim (I'm sure Uniqlo cut a deal somewhere) thus the higher prices. Uniqlo selvedge is also made with spandex which reduces the amount of denim they have to use per pant. I bought a pair a few years back and while they were fine, they never really faded despite daily wear. Even my off the shelf, non-selvedge 501's faded more. I don't know if these new ones are any better but I'd rather pay the premium and support a small company that I know can do selvedge right.
I think that @rubberlover666 answers that pretty well. I would just add that a huge company like Uniqlo had the advantage of economies of scale. And yeah, I am wondering if the jeans are sold at either cost or might even be a loss leader.
Denim heads: I’ve yet to find a white selvage jean that I liked so for white jeans I’ve usually ended up doing Madewell because at least their fit is good. Anyone have any suggestions for a great white selvage?
The Big Boys make white selvedge - RRL, J Crew, Scotch & Soda, Naked and Famous, and others
These options would be great for you :)
benzakdenimdevelopers.com/collections/jeans/products/b-01-slim-12-oz-ecru-selvedge?ktk=UEdKczZRLTNiZTdhNTViM2Q3&tap_a=23949-a716b9&tap_s=788040-80a7f5
benzakdenimdevelopers.com/collections/jeans/products/b-04-relaxed-12-oz-ecru-selvedge?variant=31759479210099&ktk=UEdKczZRLTg3NGNkYTFiNDU1&tap_a=23949-a716b9&tap_s=788040-80a7f5
@@CeeAreDee oh wow those look great, thank you. Do you own either of them? Judging from the sizing chart it looks like you should size down from your normal Jean size?
I have the B-04s... I love the denim! For sizing... that is tricky. I would say, measure up a pair of jeans that fit you well and compare. You can also give the guys an email. They will be happy to help out.
Let me know how you got on :)
@@jawntanamo_baebuy your actual size. jeans 2 small aren’t gna look good
mate just quick one, i just received my samurai unsanforized denim. i dont have a bath tub. can i just wash it in the washing machine? thanks
For sure you can. Gentle cycle 30 or 40 degrees. Inside out. Some kind of gentle detergent. Will be amazing!
@@CeeAreDee sweet! tks for d advice. cant wait for these s511gx-s will come out after 40 degrees.
Perhaps if you were more specific about the best most famous and original denim clothing since the 1930s : that would be Levis of course,... then there would be no doubt whatsoever that the answer to this question would be selvedge denim. Any other denim wear companies that came after them, were there because of Levis, but never reached the same quality ,... until however,Japan starting weaving selvedge denim other than for Levis LVC.
I saw 501 in the sale light blue. £40
Yeah I definitely wear selvage for the sick fades and way it forms around yourself, there’s just something about a pair of jeans that are totally unique to you
selvedge has nothing to do with the fade or form tho
Yeah, it is why I will go for the selvedge option most of the time. Just would not know where to find non selvedge options these days that are decent quality.
Anybody else here that is new to denim, and just looking into it as an accessory to boots which you are also new to? I have dove into first watches, then boots, and now denim. Where I am supposed to get the money for these buying sprees?
Its an expensive hobby this menswear.
@@CeeAreDee there is a store an hour away that sells many of the big names in selvedge denim. I went there to check out the naked and famous and get my sizing down. I was disappointed when I got there as they only had a couple pair of jeans in my size. I first put on a pair of naked and famous catechu selvedge and it was a revelation!!!! It was the coolest thing I have had on my legs!!!!! I could not believe how good they felt and I looked just like all the cool looking guys in pictures. It was one of those purchases where the product is so good you don’t even think about if you should buy them you just say “these are going home with me”. Then I tried on a pair of free note cloth 17 oz all black, and they were awesome to!!!!!!! So at the end of the day I was glad they were limited on stock, or who knows what kind of hit my finances would have taken. Can’t wait to wear my 2 new pairs of selvedge awesomeness.
@@f1hotrod527 I like it mate. Keep the ones you have and really wear them. Too many folk go in too fast and don’t get to enjoy the fades
Great video.
I like Selvedge because of its heaviness-I like the feel of it. I agree that Selvedge isn’t better than a regular denim.
Show me a non-Selvedge heavy jeans and I’ll buy one.
Diamond Gusset jeans
Yeah, I am not too sure there is anything that heavy out there.
A great one 21 oz go to atrium sf Kojima jeans
@@antoniobranco8005 I'll check it out. Thanks.
@@andrewsalazar98 I'll check it out. Thanks.
How do you do a cuff like that?!
I do it,i dont care,of course its not so nice.
Isn't it just a double roll?
Simpel roll it back, Check out the vid I did on cuffing ;)
I think it’s made better by hand but over time looks lousy with bleed. Some look like rags. I changed to broken twill ( not just Wrangler but Nudie and many more ).
Wrangler are great jeans
Short answer . Yes they are
Haha. I don’t do short answers 😂
My favourite jeans are NOT selveged it seems, but as they are very comfy I actually don't care that they are not.
🤷🏻♂️
I have 67 years old i know that a long time.When they start to talk about selvedge i went to see the prices i discover that i had selvedge in 1970 and in 1980 and i get two pairs in Miami during the nities all of them Levis and non of them was better than the regular stf 501 at the time or Lois Saez Marino my first pair of jeans.point me a more durable jeans than the Wrangler 47, impossible.Its a pitty that only Levis and Wrangler have raw denim non selvedge.Ithink Benzak its coming with one with italian non selvedge denim.And shrink to fit its hard to get in Europe and Wrangler rigid also.Those smaller brands shud do a non selvedge denim like Tellason do.I respect all the selvedge thing and i have a few pairs from Levis and Brave Star and a Candiani Lee,bat they cant bet my 501 stf made in Mexico and the Wrangler 47 or my last raw Lois Saez Marino that i keep in stock for my retirement.Cee Are Dee.Great video. honest and real.
As long as you enjoy wearing them, that is the main thing!
@@CeeAreDee oh yes, I do ... had to force myself to wear something else ...
Woof..... all is clear now.
Happy to help :)
Great video! Yes, "better" is subjective. If you're doing loads of physical labor, you'll definitely want a decidedly NON-selvedge jean like something Carhartt would make that's non fashionable, woven with kevlar or something, but that will last quite a long time. But for casual, everyday wear, you can't beat selvedge. If you're going to wear jeans every day anyway, might as well get some that will develop some unique character?
Well said!
Great video .pbj 0011.
Cheers :)
Next time run your mic cable up the inside of your outer shirt instead of up the T-shirt. Some small pieces of tape will hold the cable to the shirt.
Thanks for the info!
Thanks for the tip :)
I really really really wish someone such as yourself will address how much raw denim bleeds….on light colored leather seats, shoes, shirts, etc. help!!!
Easy fix. Take a bit of white cloth and rub an area that’s not too visible. See how much comes off.
Every piece of fabric has a selvedge, even if it is woven on a projectile loom. Shuttle looms just create a more attractive selvedge, so when the pattern pieces are cut from the fabric, the selvedge can be incorporated into the cut piece of fabric. Usually the long, straight, vertical edges.
Cee are Dee really Said Causation and Correlation
I did? Must have been right click find synonym.
@@CeeAreDee I meant like in terms of how u explained why selvedge jeans are not inherently better but are usually higher quality for all the reasons u stated. Loved the vid actually bought my first pair of selvedge jeans a few days ago been watching ur vids to get some good info. Keep up the good content!
Raw denim is environmentally friendly compared to mass manufacturing washed jeans which are produced in China or even Asia,as most of the factories does not invest in waste mgmt tech,just sad to see all the washed waste been released to the seas
Yeah, unfortunately that is not always the case. I did a video on it a while back. The whole sustainable topic is nuanced that it is very difficult to say. ua-cam.com/video/g9d-SizNTZo/v-deo.html
An 11 minute video on denim?!?! Levi's 'regular' denim all the way. Lmao
I guess there's days of denim on the channel... just fair warning ;)
Raw denim is just unfaded
And selvedge is just what machine
Thetes stretch selvedge too and all cotton
My personal favourites is KATO brand and I mostly wear Amazon goodthreads brand 12 dollar selvedge stretch denim skinny jeans and their denim jacket and pairs so well and they're both raw denim super awesome non touched pure dark wash, and if you love that vibe you can still go cheaper! Just gotta search for it, the Amazon brand selvedge jeans are perfect I can wash them a lot and wear them in a day and they're fully molded to my body and stretched back out , Levi's has worse stretch too... and takes longer to do that process.. and has no dark wash denim with stretch at all either and focus too much on their history and still make sloppy modern day products, always try other brands!
I saw At JCREW a dark wash slim jeans that felt even better and legit felt exactly like KATO brand jeans and looked too I freaked out! And they were not selvedge! They were japanese denim and everything for cheap but yeah I but they were amazing maybe :) selvedge isn't everything it's just more expensive but we like it the same way we like nice whiskey is all
A selvedge denim for $12?
Прямо с языка снял. Сам сэлвидж ничего не значит, а вот остальные моменты,которые производитель добавляет ,как окрас ,премиум хлопок и т.д. играют. Уменя было немало сэлвидж джинсов,которые ничем не выделялись ,кроме кромки.
I agree with you .
Where are my Jean heads shopping these days??
eBay and Grailed at the moment 😂
I bet this guy is wearing double denim
What a load of cobblers. Anything that is rushed to produce is inferior than what is produced with care and time as the shuttle looms produce. The tightness and stiffness in the material comes because of the self edge; it doesn't allow the weave to slacken because of weft bound edge, which is something that the none selvedge can't avoid, and so slackens with wear.
But of course you've probably convinced more than half of the people here who are new to denim.
Honestly mate. There’s so much wrong with that statement I’m not sure where to start.
@@CeeAreDee Listen mate, a good place to start will be to start using your common sense.
@@Master-tu4kd I’d suggest the same.
@@CeeAreDee can I also suggest the same, or similar?
An inferior single stitch exterior seam to show off the selvedge. The worst part is that a selvedge jeans by the look of it wastes more than half of the fabric.
Real man wear raw denim
😂 not sure if “real man” need a uniform.
No it's not