Train Family Wieambilla Murders Analysis | Christian Fundamentalists or Delusional?
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- Опубліковано 17 бер 2023
- This video answers the question: Can I analyze case of Train Family police murders that occurred in Wieambilla, Queensland, Australia in December 2022?
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References:
www.abc.net.au/news/2022-12-1...
intpolicydigest.org/the-wieam...
www.theguardian.com/australia...
www.bbc.com/news/world-austra...
www.abc.net.au/news/2023-02-1...
As a Queenslander who has followed this case I was looking forward to your analysis of this sad and violent event. I think you were spot on in your analysis. Their daughter has talked a bit to the media about her parents and uncle and it was along the lines of what you said. I like that you don’t forget Australia (although this case is no no claim to fame). Thank you for all your regular posts.
Do police in Australia have guns? I've heard they do. Why did they not shoot back, or did they?
@@Kangaroojack1986they do and the Queensland police have recently admitted on their memorial page Rachel MC CROW, whilst wounded, did shoot back.
My contacts have told me MC CROW was disarmed and shot dead with her own police issued Glock.
It has also yet to be proven/disproven that Alan DARE was killed by friendly fire from MC CROW, as the police memorial page says the bush was overgrown and thick and there was limited visibility - so there is a reasonable hypothesis MC CROW lay wounded, was (understandably) scared and saw movement in bush described by police as thick and with limited visibility, and shot at that movement, and that movement was DARE making enquiries about the gun fire.
That is for the Coroner to decide.
Remember, the Queensland Police Union plan to buy the property, so any evidence still remaining to support the above hypothesis will never, as in NEVER EVER, be accessible to the public.
This is also the same police union that said the day after the shooting "there is no place on earth" for someone who kills a Qld police officer, which very easily can be interpreted as if you kill Qld police, Qld police will kill you.
PolAir to SERT audio released clearly shows at no time during the final hour leading to the TRAINs deaths was Stacie TRAIN armed.
Pardon the pun, but don't shoot the messenger, I am offering my opinion based on available to the public facts, not emotion.
@@Kangaroojack1986yes they do but they were ambushed
And they were eventually shot dead
Dr. Grande sure went off the rails with all the puns this time. He's got us trained to expect them.
I think his jokes are getting better
Oh ma gaud!!!!😂
We see what you did here! ❤
My thoughts have been derailed...😂🤣😅
He did a bit but his style is unique indeed 😊
Thanks for covering an Australian story, I’ve been thinking about this for months. I recently saw an interview with the men’s father, who said his sons went off the rails years ago. It’s very sad. The poor officers…
The mysterious part for me was that they never had a history with the police as far as the media reports that I have seen or heard, so I guess that doesn't really help with answering why this happened.
@@johngreydanus2033 maccrow was the target
It was a setup
If the male cop graduated with maccrow
He was also a target
Cops are killing cops
@@johngreydanus2033 Gareth warned police not to come on his property, the cops jumped the gate and went on the property. Maybe there was a better way to do it. Cops need their authority but they ended up dead instead.
Not smart I dont think.
IT was funny when the cops came out and said, there are people who think the police are out to get them, And others need to report these people to the police.
Thanks for covering another Australian case Dr G. It is so strange and endearing hearing an American pronounce some of our regional town's names. You did well. 😊
This was a very bizarre case with odd elements and new and questionable info (such as Christian fundamentalist terrorism) still coming out. No one really understands what happened and how this went so horribly wrong.
There was an issue with Nathaniel trying to report NAPLAN cheating to the Dept of Education or something. He was of indigenous heritage and was passionate about indigenous education. Clearly he went off the rails somewhere and a shared psychosis emerged.
What happened is terrible and it appears a breakdown in communication between police departments was also to blame. The QLD police thought they were doing a simple welfare check. They had no idea the property was inhabited by gun-toting, paranoid lunatics. A specialist tactical response squad should have been sent in. So sad. And could have been avoided.
Yeah nah i was shocked he pronounced Brizzy properly & apart from getting Mt Isa wrong & Queensland nearly right he did a great job. It's good to see an American actually taking the time out to learn how to pronounce Aussie states, cities & towns correctly when other American's get it so wrong that it's not only cringey but annoying aswell.. the pronunciation of Melbourne always get me
C0vid related no doubt. He questioned it. Neighbour shot as witness. Imo
@@bexactlyyy Covid did tend to create an environment for conspiracy theories to emerge, unhinged people to even further lose their minds, everyone locked down alone with their thoughts, many suddenly out of work. I think they were Doomsday preppers. Not sure about the Christian angle. Neighbour was shot to avoid him interfering with their rampage I believe.
@@Tully_23_32 As a Melburnian it bugs me so much! Even Albo called is Mel-BORN-ians. If our PM can't get it right I don't expect Americans to. I guess they don't know any better and I'm sure I pronounce some place names wrong.
@@Tully_23_32 If that annoys you, you need to find bigger problems to deal with.
Thank you for covering this case Dr Grande. There are a lot of people here in Australia that believe that this type of extremism is exclusive to North America. However, this case shows that paranodal thoughts resulting in violence can happen anywhere. My limited exposure to this type of thinking has made me realise there is nothing one can do to dissuade people from believing this doctrine. It makes me very sad.
It comes out of America and is spread around the world
@@littleangel18 Hardly, conspiracy theories and wack jobs that believe them have been around for ever.
The internet makes it easier to spread them and form the theories. Lotsa crazy people in AU and always has been since it was a prison colony.
The woman divorced and married the brother gots me wondering WTF kind of relationship was going on
I wonder about it too. Perhaps there was more going on in their personal lives that they were trying to hide behind conspiracy theories, violence and vendetta attitude. So sad especially, for their parents.
It's like the wrestling...The brothers were TAG TEAMING !
Just to clear something up with this one. (I am tangentially attached to this case).
The police believe the shooting was pre meditated because the Train family notified the police of the missing persons likely being at the property. The police then went to the property to see if the missing person was there.
Wasn’t it the NSW police who tipped off the Queensland Police, who then responded?
@@stephenmorris3696 who tipped off the NSW police?
@@whitedragoness23 I don’t think that is known.
Who in the Train family made the missing person report? One of the ones who ended up dead or a relative somewhere else?
@@Catlily5 those are questions that need to be asked and answered
One of them tortured and killed pigs, beat his wife and drove at people on the road to scare them is that psychopathic ?
It sounds a lot like George hennard. Some of the neighbors said he did things to cats. And he was known to treat women like this man did, and would also scare people on purpose. But hennard was also delusional and was acting out as a result of his delusions - not psychopathy.
Surreal seeing Dr. Grande doing a video on this! This story hits home as an Australian.
Maybe he will do Lidney Chamberlain case some day.
@@tigerwarsaw99 ua-cam.com/video/8USc05Bb5n8/v-deo.html
Are there insane asylums in Australia?
If not, then it's the pharmaceuticals?
Dr Grande does a lot of Australian cases. Even some I've never heard of.
@@tigerwarsaw99 He's done the Chamberlain case: ua-cam.com/video/8USc05Bb5n8/v-deo.html
Bravo! 👏 Good evening Dr. Grande & audience! ❤
Proud Patreon Supporter! ❤
Have a very safe & wonderful weekend! 🌷
Waves 😊
This story disgusts me, they were terrible & wacko. So sad for those poor officers. Great coverage & analysis again. Thanks Dr G😊💙💙
And the poor neighbor! They kill him regardless if was a threat or not! He had nothing to do with the police. But the family was aggressive and the police didn’t even do anything to them.
Sounds like a lone Q anon family. Definitely deranged.
I’m sincerely confused by the reactions to this story… How were they terrible? Is it a crime to be “wacko”? This story is just sad.
@@whitedragoness23 I wouldn’t say the police did nothing wrong… They entered the property by hopping over a locked fence.
@@SnoWhite2420 they were executing a warrant. You’re either ignorant of law or willingly disillusioned
Love your upload times! It's like you're one of the only good content creators that upload for us night 🦉.
Your videos always put my day on the right track, with a roundhouse of humor. Even as the topics represent lives derailed, I can’t help but smile with your delivery. All aboard the good humor express! A whistleblower, lol.
I love that you analyse cases from all over the world. You're on top form today Dr Grande 😊
He's never done Mongolia as far as I know.
@@jumpinjohnnyruss there's always tomorrow 😀👍
Dr. Grande - I commend you on tackling this story. I had to create a flow chart to maneuver the twists & turns of this train derailment! 👍💜🌵
You are a gem Dr. Dr. Grande😂😂 This was a delight to watch. Puns are unmatched 😂
Thankyou for working hard on the pronunciation of these Aussie places. You did really well and I'm impressed.
Dr Grande, your remarks about the trains 🚂 and wrong side of the tracks were so clever!
Your delivery of these cases is always so fascinating and educational, Dr. Grande!
All of the Train family sounded like monsters, but Gareth, especially!
Good morning, Dr. Grande!
Yep, Gareth sounds like he was a tad nuts, but it seems to have run in the family.
And the Train family's "Judgement Day" came a bit early for which their neighbors should be grateful.
Thanks for sharing.
Spot on! As to book of revelation.....I learned from a professor (also Episcopal priest) that Revelation was written at that time not about end times but warning to christians about current events, their persecution. This prof had been part of deciphering dead sea scrolls. I tend to go with that interpretation.
Good timing, Dr. Grande! Right after the Canucks hockey game! (we won!) I'm looking forward to hearing about this case. I don't know this one.
Excellent analysis! It’s a relief not to hear “they were Christian wackos, case closed.” I appreciate that you talked about other factors that surely played a role in this tragedy.
No they were wackos who happened to be wayward Christians would be more accurate…
@@1moderntalking1 Exactly! 🙂
@@1moderntalking1 - No .
Christianity spawns these kinds of incidents. If you believe in one thing without reason or evidence, you are likely to believe other unsubstantiated things as well. We need to get rid of beliefs in “demons” devils” ghosts and supernatural nonsense. This would make it so much easier to identify mental illnesses. Right now people turn a blind eye to delusional thinking because we are still carrying the burden of religion. Once those myths are thrown out we will be a stronger and more rational society.
Yes, I appreciate this, as well. 🧡🙏
I appreciate a competent narrator who goes the extra mile to pronounce place names properly. It's the icing on the cake.
Fellow psychologist here and also a proud Australian. Love this UA-cam channel!!
This story shocked us down here. My understanding, if certain witness accounts are to be believed, is that methamphetamine played a large role in their unusual beliefs and 'rolling, persecutory delusions'. Having said this, I still concur with Dr. Grande's assessment - ice was just another major ingredient in this disastrous recipe.
Where did you hear meth was a factor.
First time I have heard this mentioned. I know the Trains did complain about locals out there being addicted to ice, something there were right about. A disproportionate number of these outback towns are ravaged by ice.
@@stephenmorris3696 two journalists reported long term meth use
Indeed, ice was a major ingredient in this disaster
@@francismartinevans that explains a lot. They fried their brains. Thanks for replying.
5 seconds into the vid and Dr. Grande hits us with that dry humor we all love lmao!
Good God, during the Reformation, people were burnt at the stake for not believing in transubstantiation! That wasn't a well thought out analogy.
The train puns could be a devastatingly successful drinking game.🥃🤪
Dr. Grande … thank you for the reminder of the dangers of people who lose their logic in religion. Although religion and spirituality is a personal choice, it definitively can be taken too far. 🤔❤🇺🇸
Certain religions are irresistible to Narcissists.
It’s got nothing to do w religion or faith, what these ppl showed was w lack of faith. They exhibited American anti social behaviour backed up by toxic American culture of anti government, anti police and conspiracies. Their actions were unAustralian. They were brainwashed due to underlying untreated mental Illness to.
Could you do an Australian Police Officer known as Raptor13.
He’s a disturbing ex cop. Lots of footage and current affair programs on him.
Thanks Dr Grande for covering Australian stories. I only discovered you recently and love every vid you do.
“…developed a one track mind” 😂
You’re on a roll Dr Grande
Hi Dr Grande please give us your insight on the case of Abby Choi
The worst crime that pre-millenialism ever inspired was the writing of the "Left Behind" novels.
We appreciate Dr Grande's consistency and dedication on this channel. God bless him.
Another upload lets gooooooo!!!! My man is keeping the content so fresh!!
Thanx for this analysis Doc! Warm regards from Australia 😁
Thanks Dr Grande! Was wondering whether or not you were going to do these crazy people. I love that you are analysing people outside of the US as well.
Agreed. The first red flag was the marriages. What’s going on in family where a woman goes from brother to brother, and it’s normalized?
It goes to show that extreme beliefs are universal
@@deejames1st It's normal in a Train-wreck of a family like this one.
Dear Dr G, its fantastic that you are doing an analysis in Australia. Re the Train family joint delusion, it's tragic that they felt compelled to open fire on the police = who came in peace. Three police were killed whilst they were just doing their job. The setting of grass fires is highly illegal as the dry environment means it is easy for such to go out of control. Sad that the families beliefs and actions led to their death. A train wreak for sure.
I don't think they were too concerned about fire being illegal, considering they were going to commit murder.❤
You are a machine pumping out content!
This tragedy leaves me speechless. The odds of 3 delusional people/family members together feeding off of each other until it reaches the point they loose control. It almost sounds like a cult. The words “if only” keep occurring to me, if only they had stable family members to help them through their delusions or professional help prior to the eventual rampage that ended in the their own deaths and the police officers 😢
I was looking forward to your analysis of this case. It was truly tragic
What a fascinating discussion of delusional beliefs vs extreme beliefs. Thanks, Dr. Grande!
Good evening Dr. Grande, excellent analysis. The first world countries seem to be on a conspiracy trip.
As always I learn something new from your videos.
Note that first world countries are the only ones with the luxury to entertain conspiracy theories. Same deal with woke ideology nonsense. We have it so good we have to invent problems and issues where there aren't any. People in the third world are happy to have something to eat and a roof over their heads, if that.
Yeah why would they think big companies bought out government and government is in cahoots with these companies?! I mean it’s not like bill gates foundation is a huge funder of CDC! And like he tried to bully the country and world to take this vaccine before anything was known about it. I mean if that was true I could see why many people are sketched out by the government ….
Conspiracy theories all come out of America it’s toxic af
Religion playing a major factor in those conspiracies. Dr. Grande touched on "insanity, delusions, and mental illness." I would conclude that most religious people suffer from such illness.
Dr. Grande nailed it. "There is no way to know the difference between severe delusions or beliefs.".
@@chrisccc22 I think most people who are religious are mentally ill. The most mentally are not necessarily religious.
Daaaammn, Australia!
Thanks, Dr. Grande, for another intriguing case and another great analysis. You take care.🙂
I’m watching when I wake up, now I’m watching when I go to sleep. Dr. Grande, I may have a problem 🙈😂
Great video. I’ve never heard this story.👍🏻
Loved the alliteration at the end of this video Dr. Grande! 🫶🏼
Please Dr Grande, I would like to hear your analysis of Eleanor Williams. The young British woman who last week has been convicted of false rape accusations, and self inflicting hammer wounds to her head as proof of her abuse. Why would she lie and get innocent men imprisoned? She's ruined many men's lives.
Me too
Most people I've met who get on the whole conspiracy theory ride, tend to have some degree of narcissism. They think they're special because 'they know' and when you attempt to engage with them on any kind of polite, civil discourse on the conspiracy to analyse it, they get immediately defensive in the sense that they feel you're attacking their special thing. Like to some extent, some conspiracy events probably have a grain of truth, others are complete bullshit and need to be thrown in the bin for what they are.
Another factor here is something called self-radicalisation which seems to be a very modern problem of people getting caught up in social media algorithms that say Bob likes looking at conspiracy or alternative belief systems, he's not interested in conventional politics or debates- so the algorithm will simply start providing that data, connections and environment which provides those interests at the expense of anything else. Essentially it creates and echo chamber, you're only going to start hearing what you want to hear, with people who will only be saying stuff about what you're interested in and there's no real contact after long enough, with anything else.
Is that a conspiracy theory?
No it isn't, its just the way social media works. Like if you want to make an account and just spend all day talking to people about puppies on the internet, your advertising, media groups and news will soon be filled up with pet food and accessories. Which for the most part is completely harmless, but if you have some degree of narcissism or obsessive qualities in your personality, you're probably going to start getting cranky with the Kitten Owners groups popping up from time to time and if there's a paranoid element in your personality, those bastards are out to infect me with toxoplasmosis and turn me into a zombie!
Welcome to the internet,sometimes a lot of it is completely rubbish!
You're defs correct, ive even seen some studies correlating these views with narcissistic personalty traits.
Belief in conspiracy theories can also be a symptom of mental illness. Many paranoid schizophrenics seem to have the common belief that the government are watching them, listening to them, following them, trying to kill them etc. It's sad and must be a terrible way to live.
I made the same observation about narcissistic traits in these types of people.
One of the problems is that there's a lot of rather egregious things happening that are not properly covered in popular media. For example, Monsanto in the 2000s advised farners to treat their harvests with their pesticide Roundup to use as a dessicant (prevents loss to mold, fungus, etc.). Well that's a rather toxic substance and has badly polluted much of the food supply. It gets into somatic cells in a population that doesn't get enough dietary glycein, and the Glyphosate (Roundup) is inserted into proteins by Ribosomes in place of glycein and the resulting proteins don't fold properly, impeding their function. It can have a particularly detrimental effect on enzymes.
This is a well documented fact amd yet most people no nothing about it and would write it off as a conspiracy theory.
There's a lot of poor quality conspiracy theories out there, and a lot of people without discernment or care in checking, but also to a significant degree people have become conditioned to shut off their curiosity or thinking when presented with anything that sounds to be the product of some kind of conspiracy. That's a big error to make. Where there's inadequate vigilance, there is ripe grounds to take advantage.
100 per cent
I think your videos are very well done. You stay on point, make clear consise points and are kind with much intelligence. 👏 This is a very sad story. I can't imagine 😢
Bless the neighbor for trying to help.
The writing in these videos is so good! I love the use of the puns.
Our media completely glossed over the fact that the train family were heavy meth users... Surprise surprise
What or who is Nudge's mate? Budge?
indeed, i have only found 2 journalists that reported the long term meth use. The police refuse to mention it, and push various agendas.
@@olilumgbalu5653 Simon Kelly, in Hey Dad?
It was all downhill after the gal switched brothers. 😵💫
Thank you, Dr Grande. This was a very sad event in Australian life, especially for the families of the two young police officers killed. In case no-one has mentioned it, Mount Isa is pronounced as “Eyesa.”
One-track mind, whistle blower... I think Dr Grande broke the record for puns in this video.
Fundamentalist religion and the book of revelation seem to be at the root of so much of this insanity.
Good morning Dr Grande !
Dr. Grande is the only creator, person, I can listen to make puns & illiterations without rolling my eyes at how corny they are. Something about how he does them is actually amusing.
Finally hearing about weirdos in other countries.
And Jesus people are making a comeback. Big time in the 1970
Always interesting
Thank you
Peace 💕🇺🇲
No it’s just toxic anti social American culture making it’s way around the world.
Some areas of Queensland are full of religious and gun nuts, conspiracy theorists, sovereign citizens and all the fun stuff. A tragic event but weirdos and Jesus people do make for interesting characters.
Yesss king go off!!
Right on track with your word plays, Dr Grande! ☘️🇮🇪
This was very insightful. Thank you.
Dr.Grande thank you kindly for your insightful input into this case and many others. I really appreciate your mix of humor and wit as well as high level of research and strong evidence-based analysis approach. This case really shook me personally as Nathaniel Train was my primary school teacher in FNQ. The tragedy and cruelty involved in the murders, the local area it occurred in, and the strong conspiracy views were also really surprising to me. I'm a psychology student and had tried to make sense of this all myself, especially as how someone who was a teacher of mind could do this but as you very much explained we may never know what the true motives were for the murders.
It always surprises me how educated people can be so tick with reality. Thank you for covering this.
Problems with reality can occur at any education level.
Thank you for the video, Dr G!
I can't imagine finding out my former teacher or principal had turned into such people.
Yah that’s sad but nonhuman animal products are still much worse, look up what’s done to those poor animals, animals like us but infinitely better, and the planet and everyone on her!
you mean all the child grooming pedophilia the 'teachers' are doing isn't a cause for concern to you? These teachers were the ones AGAINST all the liberal anti-family garbage. you should learn the real story before you trash talk.
9:34 "There's nothing about those constructs that connects to violence in any way." Believing nonsense and making sure you and those around you can't be talked out of it is highly associated with violence.
I love your sense of humor.
So do you think that the Queensland response to Covid 19 and Australia’s lockdown measures were reasonable? It seems to me that there was plenty of blame on both sides, and the governments attempt to label a Christian’s interpretation of the millennium as connected to terrorism is just another step in the governments continued oppression of Australians.
It would be interesting to hear Dr Grande’s views on the role of sociopathy in government policies?
Dr.Grande would you consider analyzing the recent embrace of conspiracy theories by political organizations and major political figures here in the United States?
Thank you Dr Grande I love you & your work. Thank you boss
Stacey Train was my friend's boss for a while. Said she was softly spoken and polite to him - what a bloody shock all this turned out to be. RIP to the victims. Thanks for the analysis Dr. Grande.
Part of the reason there was suspicion that the police were sent into a trap was a story that a female made an anonymous call to the police giving them the location of Nathaniel. The belief was that it was Gareth's wife.
I'm wondering how Gareth afforded that house and property if he was chronically unemployed..🤨
I picked up on that too.
The property belonged to the other brother Nathaniel and Stacey - Gareth was just staying with them…
Thank you for another illuminating analysis! Tragic as the story is, it is even more disturbing to realize how widespread this dangerous paranoia has become. My family has two members who have taken on some of these ways of viewing the world, and it is impossible to dissuade them thru argument. They definitely feed off each other's delusional thinking, yet manage to function in daily life with a fair amount of success. Your professional analysis has been valuable as we try to understand and cope with this disturbing situation, and I know we are not alone. Of course, they refuse to seek mental health help or acknowledge the facts. So far, being surrounded by people who love them- and whom they love- has kept them from going too far off the rails. I hope that one day their brains "update" closer to reality. In the meantime, thank you for your continued coverage of such cases. A perfect combo of humor, compassion and insight! ❤
Pump up the volume, Dr. Grande, please.
I’m curious how Stacey could work as teacher when she’s only 18. Are we talking a preschool teacher? Aerobics? Or is it just different in Australia?
Good Evening Dr Grande ❤
Some very serious and bizarre murder cases come out of Australia, its disturbing 😮
Another brilliant and funny analysis Dr Grande!
When do we get this in a podcast app?
Hello 👋 good Dr. Grande 😊
Off subject but thank you, Dr Grande, for your correct pronunciation of the Australian place names.
Thank you for covering this story. As an Aussie and a parent of a police officer it has rocked me and all of Australia. Tragic and senseless. I commend you on the pronunciation of our towns and on point analysis.
Another great video !
Some of our remote towns in Australia are very tough places to live and work. Disturbed people often end up in the these remote places where their behaviour is tolerated a little more or the isolation allows it. Teacbing in these areas is very tough. Covid times in the indgenous communities caused many mental health problems. The authoritatian and often brutal treatment of citizens only encouraged those who are conspiracy minded. There were many genuine abuses of citizens by authorities that were found to be illegal later in court.
Darling Downs has historically been an escape for an alternate quiet life for the low dwelling Queenslanders past the range near Brisbane and Gold Coast. Many small communites of cults, Christian or non Christians and other denomontials. Even driving on the roads to and from Toowoomba, you will see placards with Bible verses on old derrilict farms.. A bit different from Sydney where I grew up. I lived there for 3 years from 2018-2020. Mostly lovely people and small country vibes.
Reminds me of the Waco disaster
Does seem like the isolation and stress of Covid drove a lot of people down the rabbit hole. Very grateful to not have lost anyone I love to that because it seems extremely difficult to get someone to resurface.
So, both Train brothers married the same women. They technically ran a train on her.
She probably had a nice caboose...
Dr Grande was too polite to go there.
Would be interested in the family background of persons who commit such acts of violence and the contributing factors brought on by their treatment by their parents and other people.
Unless some of the officers were trainees, 4 officers on a seemingly routine assignment seems significant. You wouldn't generally find 4 officers sent out at once. On the other hand, they don't appear to have been equipped with precautionary gear.
One of the officers (the one who hid in the tall grass) was in her first week out of graduation 🙁
It doesn't help that the public likes to antagonize conspiracy theorists.
It is easy to convince people that false flags happen because of so many school shootings.
Shared psychotic disorder seems to explain a lot, very helpful theory.
Hi Dr Grande
*sovereign citizens*
🤦♀️
Mount Isa is pronounce Mount 'Eyes ah'
I’d like to suggest you have a playlist of Australian cases on your channel, for your Down Under fans.
"Shared psychotic disorders" Thanks for the laugh.
She should have known when her first marriage derailed that marrying his brother would be a train wreck! (both delusional and religious fanatics. Ironically it appears they ignored the account of John the Baptist when he condemned King Herod Antipas for marrying his brother's ex-wife Herodias.