As the Reverend Mother says in the film, "there are no sides". (That phrase is not from the book, but it sums up the BG very nicely.) For much the same reason, there are no real heroes (OR villains!) in the entire Dune series. It's a very realistic world of moral ambiguity that forces the reader (and especially the movie audience) to think about what they're feeling about what they're reading (and seeing).
I did laugh at that line coming from the Reverend Mother since she plays all the sides to push their agenda. Reminded me how hypocritical all the people in power are in the dune universe
while Paul's hero arc / revenge for his family arc end with the death of the baron, the freedom of the fremen people does not. Their freedom is not even secured with the death of the emperor, since any successor emperor would always elect a new house to exploit their planet for spice. Their freedom relies on having an emperor that is benevolent to them, as Paul is/ or can be. Thus extending the war to the universe / to the other houses that don't accept Paul ascension might be their only path to freedom which Paul has taken upon his shoulders as he considers himself equal. Sure you can consider he has converted them to revenge his family, but perhaps they have converted him to obtain their freedom.
excellent point and video, but i would say that he had no choice but to force the emperor to submit. after all, the emperor did bring his atmy to kill him snd the fremen. Surrender was never an option for him. Neither was expecting mercy from the emperor either. That being said, he could have stopped there and told the emperor they were even, asked him to restore his status and extracted concessions that would have ensured his family's safety,but it was not possible from what i read. yes, he wasn't paul atreides anymore. that much is certain. But you are also forgetting the emperor ultimately fell into the pit he dig for paul atreides. you reap what you sow, bene gesserit interference notwithstanding
Yep, the instant that Spice is discovered, the Fremen are destined for one of two paths: extinction or victory. The Landsraad and CHOAM are too powerful and self-interested to allow the Fremen to manage the planet themselves, so they will never be allowed to govern. That's why the jihad was inevitable.
I think that is a profound misreading of the story. The villains are the Harkonnens and the Emperor, and by extension the Landsraad. They brutally exploit the fremen for decades. Remove Paul from the equation and Feyd becomes Emperor and steward of Arakkis. He is brutal, shown to be efficient and fearless in his extermination of the Fremen. The dream of Liet would give rise to rebellion that would spill offworld anyway. Paul, as they say in the film, points the way. The Fremen were fated to fight back regardless. To them, their choices are extinction or victory. The Landsraad would never allow them 100% control of the spice. Their victory can only come through pacification of the great houses. Paul has nothing to do with this fact. He only facilitates their victory.
I disagree. The Emperor could be any despot in a major nation eliminating a threat to his power. The Harkonnen are seen as evil sure but those 15 minutes we spend on their planet shows that it's more the brutality of their culture than pure evil. The Bene Gesserit move in the shadows playing all of the great houses. The wars and conflicts are extensions of their one big scheme, to create a living god. We even see them take the Barons daughter and use her as a pawn, then use Feyds sexual trauma to create another female heir so that they can try to create their god again because they're sure they will kill Paul. The Emperors wife is the one that puts the idea in his head to kill Leto, He even state that out of all the houses he was closest to Leto and saw him as a son. All of the suffering and death is a means to an end for them and that is true evil. Willing to kill any one or any thing to bring what you perceive as order under your rules to the universe
@@lokeyfunny I've seen the interviews. Paul does view himself as a villain and there is an entire monologue where he compares himself to tyrants of the past. But none of that actually matters, especially when you get into the next few books. Paul NOT doing that leads to the extinction of the entire human race. At best, you could call Paul (and later Leto) a necessary evil. But he's not a villain, no matter what the author says.
At the end, the books are about power... political, religious, violent, good or bad, etc. it does not matter, but Power is all that matters.
As the Reverend Mother says in the film, "there are no sides". (That phrase is not from the book, but it sums up the BG very nicely.)
For much the same reason, there are no real heroes (OR villains!) in the entire Dune series. It's a very realistic world of moral ambiguity that forces the reader (and especially the movie audience) to think about what they're feeling about what they're reading (and seeing).
I did laugh at that line coming from the Reverend Mother since she plays all the sides to push their agenda. Reminded me how hypocritical all the people in power are in the dune universe
while Paul's hero arc / revenge for his family arc end with the death of the baron, the freedom of the fremen people does not. Their freedom is not even secured with the death of the emperor, since any successor emperor would always elect a new house to exploit their planet for spice. Their freedom relies on having an emperor that is benevolent to them, as Paul is/ or can be. Thus extending the war to the universe / to the other houses that don't accept Paul ascension might be their only path to freedom which Paul has taken upon his shoulders as he considers himself equal. Sure you can consider he has converted them to revenge his family, but perhaps they have converted him to obtain their freedom.
The only way for them to have « freedom » is to neutralise the prescience effect of spice
If anything
Happy to have you back and excited for more Dune videos!! ❤
It's the breath of fresh air I needed
@@Blerdcaliburdon’t breath too much of Arrakis’s fresh air or you’ll get high on spice
Glad to see you back
I missed yall
Great video man! Love a good villain origin story.
Welcome back big Man!
Good to be back
excellent point and video, but i would say that he had no choice but to force the emperor to submit. after all, the emperor did bring his atmy to kill him snd the fremen. Surrender was never an option for him. Neither was expecting mercy from the emperor either. That being said, he could have stopped there and told the emperor they were even, asked him to restore his status and extracted concessions that would have ensured his family's safety,but it was not possible from what i read.
yes, he wasn't paul atreides anymore. that much is certain. But you are also forgetting the emperor ultimately fell into the pit he dig for paul atreides. you reap what you sow, bene gesserit interference notwithstanding
Yep, the instant that Spice is discovered, the Fremen are destined for one of two paths: extinction or victory. The Landsraad and CHOAM are too powerful and self-interested to allow the Fremen to manage the planet themselves, so they will never be allowed to govern. That's why the jihad was inevitable.
Blerdly banger 🗣️🗣️
Good job with that interpretation
I think that is a profound misreading of the story. The villains are the Harkonnens and the Emperor, and by extension the Landsraad. They brutally exploit the fremen for decades. Remove Paul from the equation and Feyd becomes Emperor and steward of Arakkis. He is brutal, shown to be efficient and fearless in his extermination of the Fremen. The dream of Liet would give rise to rebellion that would spill offworld anyway. Paul, as they say in the film, points the way. The Fremen were fated to fight back regardless. To them, their choices are extinction or victory. The Landsraad would never allow them 100% control of the spice. Their victory can only come through pacification of the great houses. Paul has nothing to do with this fact. He only facilitates their victory.
There are no straightforward villains or heroes.
I disagree.
The Emperor could be any despot in a major nation eliminating a threat to his power. The Harkonnen are seen as evil sure but those 15 minutes we spend on their planet shows that it's more the brutality of their culture than pure evil. The Bene Gesserit move in the shadows playing all of the great houses. The wars and conflicts are extensions of their one big scheme, to create a living god. We even see them take the Barons daughter and use her as a pawn, then use Feyds sexual trauma to create another female heir so that they can try to create their god again because they're sure they will kill Paul. The Emperors wife is the one that puts the idea in his head to kill Leto, He even state that out of all the houses he was closest to Leto and saw him as a son. All of the suffering and death is a means to an end for them and that is true evil. Willing to kill any one or any thing to bring what you perceive as order under your rules to the universe
I like your views on this movie 🍿 story. I don't think anyone else I've seen on utube has made your points about the Fremam options.
Dune's author mentioned that Messiah's should come with a warning sign so Paul is indeed the villain.
@@lokeyfunny I've seen the interviews. Paul does view himself as a villain and there is an entire monologue where he compares himself to tyrants of the past. But none of that actually matters, especially when you get into the next few books. Paul NOT doing that leads to the extinction of the entire human race. At best, you could call Paul (and later Leto) a necessary evil. But he's not a villain, no matter what the author says.