When EVs cost more than gas
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- Опубліковано 25 вер 2024
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Links from today's show:
Cost of driving electric car up to twice the price of petrol or diesel. Motorists without space at home to charge their cars are facing prohibitively high costs at public facilities
www.thetimes.c...
Teacher Jack Osborne says more infrastructure is needed outside of Dublin for greener transport.
A motorist who drives a diesel car has said he would be “fully willing” to make the change to an electric vehicle (EV) or a hybrid vehicle, but simply can’t afford it. Secondary school teacher Jack Osborne has been on the road since he was in his first year of college. He recently moved from Galway city to Patrickswell in Co Limerick for work, and the additional travel he undertakes means his monthly fuel bill has doubled.
independent.ie...
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#Tesla #TSLA #EVs
Teachers deserve a 100% raise
In Norway they are replacing street park-o-meters by chargers so everybody can charge on the street.
I hated spending 50.00 every other month to do my own oil change every 5000 miles. I don't have to crawl under my vehicle every other month, the winter sucked even more. Never AGAIN ....HURRAY
I hated that part changing the filter, hoping the o-ring on my canister didn't twist and blow my engine. I know someone who did that. And then parked their vehicle... Thanks, Toyota, for junk filter canisters..... I will never look back!! We are all ev now. And rent for vacations!!
Hello Brian, It was nice to meet you this past weekend at the Cyberfest event in Ocala. I'll share a few things with you about my experience charging my Tesla Model Y. I have three ways that I normally charge it.
1. 50% From my DIY solar power: cost=ZERO
2. 40% From the utility at home: Cost=4 cents/mile
3. 10% From Supercharger: Cost=12 cents/mile
Note: I have driven it 15,000 miles in just 6 months. If we drive less in the future than the FREE solar % will go up.
With regard to renters, I am a Landlord and I would support adding charging for any renter who ask me to install it. 80% of our properties would be easy to add charging and the others would not be possible without unreasonable expense. I have already added two level two outlets at an average cost of $350. Its not that hard. I would cover the cost and add to the rent to recover the cost in 3 years.
Thanks!
@@HomesteadEngineering my home solar system has been positive cash flow for 8 years not. I only make about 28kWh per day, though.
I purchased a X-LR in Oct. 2019. It has free supercharging for life. About 15 % of my charging is at home in Montana. Cost around $0.10 per kWh. I have traveled to about 20 states in the western US. I feel so lucky to have this deal and will keep this car a very long time. Tire wear is bad, about 25,000 miles, but that’s a small overall cost. If I had to pay for supercharging, I would still buy another Tesla X.
Maybe governments should reallocate some of the oil subsidies to fund more public charging.
Even in the UK, Tesla chargers are available at half the price.
I used Tesla before my home charger was installed.
One other thing - for regular commuters there are charging plans you can buy that reduce the cost of charging.
But read the fine print: Some aren't worth it since it raises the cost of the rest of your usage. Since most power bills lean heavily towards heating and cooling, AND I charge max 2x a week, these plans don't work for my usage
@@diydrivenGA I was referring to specific charging station membership plans in Ireland like "ecars", "EasyGo" etc. Tesla also has theirs as well I think. You do need to be a regular commuter in order to save any money though so it does require some initial planning.
In the four years of owning my MYP, at-home electricity has gone from about $0.20 per kWh to $0.45. Superchargers have changed even more with my last on-road fill-up at $0.60. Tires are more. Oil changes are less. Repairs, especially at Tesla, are more - not drastically, but more. Insurance, the same. Depreciation has been more and has been the largest cost. I never believed the hype about BEVs being MUCH cheaper and now, based on my one-point study, it has been a toss up. But I have loved my car. That will guide my future purchase.
What repairs have you done on your MY that weren't the initial new car glitches usually covered under warranty? I've owned my MY for a year and a half and the only "repairs" that have cost me money has been to rotate the tires at 10K+ miles which Tesla service did at my house for like $70ish USD. Not anticipating I'll need anything else but who knows?
Excellent focus on one of the root causes of the slowdown in NEV uptake. The refusal of North American Dealerships to sell BEVs is another that may ultimately doom Legacy Auto. I don’t know how that works in Europe? But 80% to 90% of the World population now live in cities and may or may not have access to home charging. This will ultimately drive those people to use the Tesla supercharger network. At least until municipal power companies get smart and install sidewalk charging like Con-Edison has started to do in NYC.
Then now you know guys. Zach and Jesse interviewed a company that did load share distributed charging for apartments.
In the 1950's EVERYONE carried cash - in their wallet, purse or pocket. No credit cards and checks were rarely accepted. Most jobs AND the military paid wages in cash. Now imagine your one pair of "work pants" had a hole in your money pocket and every week a quarter of your money was lost. Do you swap pockets? Sew up the pocket's hole? Buy new work pants? Not until you lose ALL your money. So it is with I.C.E. cars that nickel and dime you every month.
I always do my own brakes.
Zero DSRX done in 20 minutes.
Another good one.
In Spain around 70% of population live on apartments, many without own parkings. That withholds the EV onwership, and with very high prices for rapid chargers or public chargers make it not worth it to own an EV here.
However the Government issues a law where the The Community in the apartments can't withhold you from instaling a charger in your garaje slot.
That's why Aptera should come to Spain and Italy first. It is the perfect car for here (apart from the narrow roads).
What is the average commute in Spain (~20km)? For longer range ~250km EVs you'd really only need to charge once a week or less. If you can charge at work even better. It does depend upon reliable chargers in your area though.
@erktrek Very few workplaces offer EV chargers.
The commute is not much, average is like 25 or 30 kms, but everybody I know want to do tries of 400 or 500 kms, and they complain they can't do it with an EV. That's what they tell me.
Spain is one of the biggest countries in Europe (except France, Ukraine and Russia) and many people here want to do trips to the villages from big cities and they still think they're gonna get stranded with an EV.
Besides, our average income is lower than Germany and Northern Europe so few people can't afford an EV of 40k € or more.
Maybe not at this moment but certainly sometime in the near future ICE vehicles will become a low income "trap". Cheap at first but as gas stations and repair shops close it will become more difficult and expensive to maintain over the life of the vehicle.
Arguably, it's already happening with turbo direct injected engines and now as we pivot to hybrids, reliability concerns will crop up there.
@@diydrivenGA interesting.. for the lower income folks it will be older used cars so parts will be even more expensive and hard to obtain. The good news is used EVs are so inexpensive right now because no one seems to realize how reliable they are versus used ICE vehicles even on older batteries.
It's a HUGE problem for EV take-up if it actually costs more to run one. You won't sell many EVs on climate change alone.
If Norway and CHina can do it right, two countries with very different political systems but successfully embracing EVs, then the UK, USA and Canada can do it too, it just means putting in the work, and part of that is stopping greedy electric companies from ripping people off.
I live in Oregon, my electricity is 10c/kWh, I can charge at home, and we generate our own solar power. The only reason to delay is that I have a gas car that can last another 100k miles easily, but I want to get an EV as I think it'll be a nicer driving experience, and it will pay for itself in the long run.
Public DCFC is similar in price to pumping gas in my experience. If I could only use public charging, I wouldn't own an EV for financial reasons, but I'd choose and EV for the instant torque and superior acceleration even if the price of fuel were comparable. The ubiquity of gas stations is (practically the only) advantage of driving an ICEV especially on long road trips, and if one can charge at home, the financial advantage is huge.
Brian, you appear to believe that all non-homeowners are dumb? If I was a high mileage commuter and EVs offered the best potential for saving, I would move to a location where I could home charge (different apartment). This can be accomplished by placing a power receptacle (power pole) at the head of you parking place. All good home chargers are secure and can be configured to only charge a selected car or cars with matching VIN numbers. You can also attach multiple chargers to a single circuit (reducing the install cost) and they will limit/schedule the charging so that the circuit's power availability is not exceeded. When a obstacle is placed in one's way, smart people find ways around the problem.
You're calling that secondary school teacher dumb. It's a barrier. We need to acknowledge that.
I’m surprised more stores like Walmart aren’t offering free level 2 charging in their parking lots to attract more customers. I’d even be happy with standard 120 v outlets everywhere I park.
The Walmarts near me have the Electrify America chargers. Nobody uses them that I can see.
@@danabe3220 I wouldn’t either, I won’t touch anything that requires a buggy app. I just want something simple you plug in and walk away. It would cost them almost nothing to put a few kilowatt hours into costumer vehicles.
Well just go ahead and rip up your entire states electricity grid and replace it all with new Copper cables that are 3 times the diameter of what you just pulled out and then figure out some way to provide the power and your laughing
@@MrkBO8 we only would need like 30 percent more supply for everyone to charge. Not nothing, but certainly not earth shattering either. Central air takes up about as much power as level 2 EV charger.The grid didn’t collapse when everyone started getting AC, it just adapted.
I imagine they're afraid of people abusing it.
ACTUALLY the price of gas will go up. The cost of producing gas will only increase and the shrinking market will force fossil fuel companies to increase the cost of gas to cover expenses. Tesla has made the benefits of SCALE self evident. The smaller the scale, the higher the price.
if they get no funds anymore it will go up. We had an total shutdown of one of the 2 diesel refinery in austria the prices where all over the place and only the huge ones are profitable anyways.
Aptera is a solution, and only government laws are preventing cheap high quality Chinese EVs and cheap electricity from solar, wind, hydro, batteries from saving people money to convert to EVs.
Thank you for the video and effort you put into your channel !! While out shopping for an EV (Ford Escape) I'm finding the price of the BEV version of the model is $7-10K more than the ICE equivalent. Are we just paying for the "gas we would have used" up front to buy the BEV version of the car? I'm not saving on gas charges if I equate the premium price paid for the EV as the up front cost in the first 3 years. Maintenace is low in the first 2-3 years at present as base maintenance is included (oil change, tire rotation) on the ICE vehicles.
For two whole weeks back in 2022 it was more expensive with electricity than diesel here in Sweden, for me and my 140km daily commute. Been driving EVs for six years so, I'm not going to switch back.
Good vid. Being honest about some of the barriers both highlights these as requiring solutions but also builds credibility for you that you are not Pollyanna about BEV adoption.
If I don't show the bad along with the good, how can people know if I'm even being honest about the good things?
@@FutureAZA Exactly. It's not helpful to sugarcoat real issues that we need to advocate for solutions to. That just plays into the hands of FUD-sters. I put it as, it's a real concern but it's not insurmountable, if we put our heads to it with optimism.
I was dealing with such a naysayer on LinkedIn, the other day (looking for every reason why it will never happen), and I had to bust out the long version of:
"We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things not because they are easy, but because they are hard." - JFK (September 12, 1962)
It should be illegal for oil companies to have any connection to EVs at any level.
I dont trust them.
7:56 - Norway has lots of cheap electricity, much of it from Hydro power
Oil and oil filter changes. Wait - use "special long distance oil" and have your engine replaced every 25,000 miles. Transmission fluid changes, again the average life of a modern automatic transmission is 30,000 miles. Brake pad replacement. Exhaust parts and CAT converter replacements. NON warranted Oxygen sensors, fuel injectors, water pumps, thermostats, timing belts - none of these are covered by ANY car makers' warranties.
I'm not sure where some of your numbers are coming from. I've never had any vehicle where the engine and transmission didn't make it past 100k miles.
@@garywozniak7742 My numbers? As a former ASE Tec I owned and operated a VW Jetta / Passat shop. You are an aware driver. We only delt with the abusers and neglecters. That's where.
@r.a.monigold9789 I was a fan of the old air cooled VWs but I don't have a great opinion on the quality of what came after that era.
@@garywozniak7742 if you are a qualified mechanic and owned your own your own shop you’ll love the newer VWs as they break a LOT
Another factor is how we pay to maintain our roads.
Fuel taxes will need to be replaced by EVs somehow, which is not a conducive subject when trying to persuade drivers to switch.
Which country was it that has already started charging EVs a per mile tax to pay for road upkeep?
This factor when fully implemented will cut into the savings we are currently enjoying over ICE cars.
there are some countrys they charge per weight and miles sounds better expecialy if they give some money back if no busses and rail is available
My state (and many others) already have an EV surcharge on the annual registration.
Which vehicles cause the most wear? Shouldn't those vehicles pay their fair share? (large commercial vehicles)
Their fumes also cause most air-borne lung cancers, which is why the Semi is Tesla's most environmentally important project.
@@mike_w-tw6jd
But ICE advocates are claiming that EVs cause more road damage because their batteries make them so much heavier than ICE cars, which is an exaggerated difference.
Where's the 7cents elon promised ?
with the rest of his promises
Isn't it great that non-tesla owners can now pay a monthly fee to have the privilege of paying the same low price as tesla owners at Superchargers. 😜😜
Colorado Springs
- home charge .11/kWh
- Tesla charger .35/kWh
- Electrify America .65/kWh
Home charging is a huge advantage, I save all the wasted time that ice drivers have driving to stations, standing there while it fills, having to insert a credit card, having to listen to stupid advertisements from the pump. It also cost five times as much for gasoline per mile over electricity. Just get up, unplug and drive over 200 miles. If i drive further I need a break anyway to stretch legs, get coffee, eat etc. always charges in less than 20min. 95% of time I charge at home. Plug it in walk away.
Good morning Brian, just went through my charge history noticing that most of the chargers where free up to 7kw but that is here in south Australia, however when I was visiting the UK i used gridserve chargers and free charging at shops and restaurants. Use your head and not brand loyalty. Keep smiling everyone
Supercharger is still cheaper than Petrol, so you either need to be able to charge at home or have superchargers near you or be able to charge at work in the UK for it to be cheap. I pay 7p per kw overnight
It's $0.08/kWh (in USD, though I don't live there) where I live, 95% of which is from hydro. In a 4 bedroom house with a heatpump, electric appliances and hot water, and 1 EV that is 100% charged at home, my average electrical consumption is only $1.71/day. My entire electrical bill, including charging the EV, is less than I pay in gas each month for my other ICE car, which I drive quite minimally.
Wow, nice!
Saying that the average price is 80p per kilowatt hour is wrong - it is up to 80p - I have yet see it at more than that. If you have a membership with one or more supplier, you can get it at about 40p or even less. Without that membership, it is probably an average of about 60p, maybe less.
Ive only used a Supercharger charger 3 times and it was about 32p , I have a Tesla so no sub either.
Assuming that ICE vehicles are dead is not a given and an argument can be made that hybrids and or plug in hybrids might be a more economical choice for those who can't charge at home. The higher gas mileage that the hybrid gets can beat the cost of charging the comparable EV at a high priced public charger.
I wonder on the supply and demand side of things if gasoline and or the price of oil may drop as demand for it drops, will electricity prises ruse as demand for it increases ?
Charging at home will always be cheaper then gas. Charging on the road will vary. And don't forget it can take more than one charge up to equal one tank of gas so that adds up.. Right now gas vehicles are a more practical affordable choice for many. Especially if you need a car for longer journeys.
Save your money and buy a small house with a nice garage. That's what I did after I looked into renting. 🙂
That's like paying $5 for a cup o noodles at 7/11 for something that costs 50 cents.
Feels like it.
Here in the UK, we do pay 5% VAT on electricity used at home, so you will pay it when charging an EV at home.
It's 20% VAT on public charging. Odd that the people who can least afford it are taxed the highest.
UK is 230V nominal, but not just that, it's common to have 3 phase, so that 20A supply is on all 3 phases, and so you're talking about being able to support 13,800W charging, back that down to 16.6A (which is what they limit to on 20A (83% instead of our 80%)) so that's 11.5kW charging rate ability for typical UK homes.
How is 3 phase common in the UK??? In MASSIVE houses maybe but it is not common. My sister has a large 5 bed detached and its single phase.
@@usefulrandom1855The default is single phase but the vast majority of homes in the UK have the ability to access 3-phase power and can upgrade for £1500-£3000.
9:05 sorry even if the ICE vehicle is worth nothing in resale value, it still has scrap value, the steel brings enough value to have someone tow it away from you for free, and usually you get a small payment. so having to pay to take it away is just like saying that people burn the batteries instead of recycling the black gold. please dont misinform your viewers.
You may be able to find scrappers to haul away a car for free, but it is not always the case.