Well, that was educational! And no, it's not sad. This is not about pedantic rivet counting; it's about understanding the operational aspects of railways and is what can makes railway modelling so much more interesting than just running a toy train round an oval. We just need the DCC technology to allow us to change the headcodes of locos to reflect what they are pulling.
Indeed Paul, like you, I’ve also been saying that about the ability to change headcodes via DCC. I’ve seen a recent article in one of the model railway magazines recently showing working bus blinds, I would’ve thought that would be a good starting point for one of the DCC companies to start producing a changeable digital blind.
How accurate to be is really a matter of taste. Some people might be quite happy with a Thomas the Tank Engine model hauling a mix of German and US HO scale carriages; I suspect that most would not find that evocative of reality enough to bring joy. Quite how deep into detail that one goes really depends on one's own priorities; I often find that the more that I research and learn about reality, the more accurate that the model needs to be to bring me joy.
One inhabiting factor for the DCC companies, which normally produce for most railway modelling countrys, to bring changable headcodes, would be that headcodes are a rather british only thing (only other occurrences I knew of would be Compagnie des chemins de fer du Nord with 3.1192 on display in Milhouse still or reconstructed having one and some Réseau express régional d’Île-de-France trains), other countrys got train report number / "Zugnummer" / "numérotation des trains" systems, too but not on the head showing (for example SBB five numbers, DB five numbers, ÖBB three numbers, SNCF two blocks with tree numbers each, ARTC number-letter-letter-number, ...)
The head codes could in theory be simulated with micro OLED displays. Obviously the DCC chips would need a new function for controlling said displays but it could be done. The big factor to whether it's really needed is down to cost, I'm sure Hornby would happily develop a locomotive ready to run but at £1000 per unit going by their current prices. Someone else could develop a retro fit able system for those with deep pockets and a certain level of skill that would be required to set up I guess.
Hi Charlie, I used to work in Tyne Yard Gateshead and was in charge of marshaling the engineer trains. The ballast waggons were put together with the ballast wheels facing anyway as the waggons came off different trains. Loaded ones were put into a siding awaiting another job while the empty waggons were put into a different siding to go off to get loaded so the ballast wheels could be facing anyway. On some trains we would have a mixture of dogfish, sealions or seacows. Mermaids were used as well, but these were mainly used at weekends. We used head codes 6P on our ballast trains ie 6P54. Sometimes we would put sharks at both ends of the train. Normal ballast train would consist of 10 to 15 dogfish and a shark or 10 sealions/ seacows and a shark depending on the size of the job. We didn't fit crew vans to our ballast trains as the maintenance gangs would arrange to meet the ballast trains on site and use their own mess vans on site for lunchtime or cups of tea. Hope this helps Gary from County Durham.
Another great video Charlie. The DOGFISH hoppers only had operating wheels at one end, and it didn't matter which way round they were, they would be which ever way the yard put them together. The larger 40ton hoppers (SEALION or SEACOW's) had wheels at both ends as they were split into 6 compartments instead of three (left / middle / right hand side) on the 20ton DOGFISH. The BY van behind the 63xx was a luggage van, and only had a seat for the Guard in it, so not much us as a crew van. In fact the gangs of blokes that operated the hoppers would meet the train at a certain location, and ride out to site on the verandas (with there Tilly lamps) quite a site, but long gone in the modern H&S driven world of today. On the subject of braked / unbraked wagons, also bear in mind that some of the grey un braked wagons were through piped, which meant that whilst the brakes on that vehicle would not operate, a fitted (braked) vehicle behind it could, so like most thing railway related, nothing is straight forward.
An excellent comment Richard, thank you. I was aware of the through braked wagons, but thought it best to leave that complication for another day! Regards Charlie
A wonderful piece of anorak-ism. So detailed but I feel that’s the detail some of us are looking to achieve. As a boy in the 1980’’s I was very happy just to run random trains around my basic layout. But as a 50yr old boy I now want to create the most accurate layout I possibly can, right down correct headcodes and brake vans. Thank you for addressing this subject Charlie and providing some education for us amateurs.
The more I watch your excellent productions, the more I realise just how little I know. Fascinating. I too, ventured up in the loft the other day, my better half decided to pop up there too. She didn't use the word "Gosh" however. She stood there gawping at the various rolling stock, all made up into various "trains" and I could tell immediately that she was counting the number of wagons in her head. She disappeared back down the ladder and it was several hours before she uttered a word to me, which I am unable to reproduce here. Fortunately, she didn't see the two cardboard boxes which are both full of stock.....! Great stuff Charlie, as always. Best regards Nige.
@@daviemaclean61 My wife is the same, I've told her that when I've finished "I will let her come up and have a look, but not until then as there's a lot of boxes on the floor". I"ve been at it for the last forty years so the finish line is still quite a way off!
Thank you Charlie. Sometimes it’s the simplest things that suddenly make sense. Until now I never knew the difference between grey and bauxite painted wagons. In my naïveté I’d thought it was some time-related corporate livery change.
Excuse me for contradicting you a bit Charlie, but the brown or grey colour of the brake van isn't dependent on the brakes of the brake van... because most brake vans were unfitted. The colour related to the 'pipe' passing through the wagon. A brown van would indicate a brake van with a through 'vaccum pipe', where it would have vacuum brake connecters on the bufferbeam of the wagon, but they would go straight through the wagon to a connector on the bufferbeam at the other end, but didn't activated any brakes on the wagon (because they didn't exist). For a grey brakevan, these didn't have any brake pipe connectors at all. The purpose of a brake van was to use the handbrake wheel in the van to keep the couplings taught. For an unfitted train, at the top of a hill, the handbrakes of the wagons would be partially applied, and at the end the brake van would be used to keep the weight of the wagons from pushing the loco down the hill and causing a 'runaway train'. At the bottom of the hill the handbrakes of the wagons would be released, and the brake van would keep the couplings taught so they wouldn't 'snatch' and break. Snatching brakes is caused by the concertina effect, where the slack between each wagon being pulled apart, that energy increases down the train, causing a violent snap towards the end of the train... a force that can break the metal coupling!! It's a lot like a whip... giving a violent shake at the handle end makes the movement energy flow up the length of the rope and causes a powerful flick at the other end, so violent the energy results in a loud snap at the end!! In 1972, BR started using the TOPS system, which used 3-digit code letters to indicate the types of wagons, with the last digit indicating the brakes on the wagons. A = Air Brakes B = Air Brakes and through Vacuum Pipe. O = No Brake (Hand Only), Unfitted. P = No Brake (Hand Only), through Vacuum Pipe only. Q = No Brake (Hand Only), through Air Pipe only. R = No Brake (Hand Only), through Air and Vacuum pipe only V = Vacuum Brakes W = Vacuum Brakes, through Air pipe. X = Dual Vacuum and Air Brakes If we look at your coal wagon from 5:15, under TOPS that would be a MHV... V meaning Vacuum braked. At 6:10, the Grey brake van would become a CAO, O meaning O = No Brake (Hand Only), Unfitted. The brown van would become a CAP No Brake (Hand Only), through Vacuum Pipe only. In the mid 1960's, Ashford works constructed brake vans with through air pipes (pic below). To seperate them from usual brown 'piped' wagons, they were given a yellow panel. Under TOPS, these were coded CAR, R = No Brake (Hand Only), through Air and Vacuum pipe only www.flickr.com/photos/55938574@N03/10036474725/in/photolist-ghTygF Your Shark is from the late 70's/early 80's when engineers wagons were painted in Olive. The TOPS code is a ZUV. Z = Departmental, Two axles (bogie departmental wagons have a 'Y' prefix) U = sub-type V = Vacuum brakes. Regarding your Dogfish, and you referenceing seeing other types in a rake... these are probably Catfish. Catfish are very similar but have shorter hopper bogies, and they only have a single chute for placing ballast in the middle. And here's a photo of a train with the second wagon behind the loco being a Catfish, as is the seventh and the sixth wagon is a Mermaid www.flickr.com/photos/httpwwwpeakdaleworkscom/51643870786/ (The photo may be too modern for your era, but how they were used really didn't change! The Catfish and Mermaid are avilable as models from Cambrian Kits Catfish is kit no. C11 www.eileensemporium.com/materials-for-modellers/product/cambrian-br-catfish-19t-ballast-hopper/category_pathway-4233 Mermaid is kit no. C13 www.eileensemporium.com/materials-for-modellers/product/cambrian-br-14t-mermaid-side-tipping-ballast-wagon/category_pathway-4233 And, of course, the nice thing about kits is that you can have something different to the usual ready-to-run stuff everyone else has... and you can always get the mental buzz of "I made that!" whenever you look at it!! Regarding couplings... I use Kadee's, but Hunt's Couplings magnetic version is probably available for the Dogfish and will be cheaper to fit. Hope that's useful to you! Cheers Laura
Your not sad mate.... If anyone is "sad", then it must be me because I really enjoy watching model railways... As well as the real thing... Because I suffer with aspergers syndrome, I just find it extremely therapeutic to watch.. Especially the scenery, the detail, the weathered look on the rolling stock.... Absolutely brilliant and I take my hat off to you as well as other enthusiasts....
Because everything in this hobby will always been a compromise to some degree, these days I approach the trains I run as something akin to an Impressionist painting of the prototypes. In that I do try my best to keep them 'realistic' with a small 'r' and this works for me. It is about fun at the end of the day. But having said that I found this video very useful as I can do this with the stock I already have and no sweating or expense. So thank you.
Charlie, as a result of your very succinct explaination that Bauxite painted wagons were vacuum fitted and Grey painted wagons were unfitted, my flabber was well and truly gasted. It was so gasted that I phoned my rail-pal of nearly 70yrs residing in the US of A and asked him "Did you know that?" When after an uncharacteristic moment of silence he said "No", I realised that his flabber was gasted as well. So Charlie, how, in over 60yrs of railfanning did we not know that? Can't believe it - hidden in plain sight! But, are we alone .......?!!!!
Well Done -as a retired railwayman I enjoyed this. Couple of observations [not a criticism] Wagons began to be painted bauxite in the 70s whether fitted on not. Most brake vans were "Piped Only" but painted bauxite. V was Western region, E was Eastern. S was Scottish, M was Midland and O was Southern region! An anomaly on Tyneside was the steam hauled Tyne Dock-Consett ore trains which were fully fitted but ran Class H with headlamps "straight up and down" In the 70s on Tyneside ballast trains were usually 9Txx, Local Traffic engines were 9Pxx e.g. 9P30 0630 Tyne Yard -Consett [two trips which were untimetabled]
Charlie, your videos teach me something without fail, every time I watch one. I’m ashamed to admit I didn’t realise the colour of the wagons had a connection to they’re brake fitment. You are a font of information and I’m so glad I found your channel. I hope you’re keeping well, it sure looks like you are.
Well that was educational, lots of stuff I didn't know so thank you Charlie. They do say every day's a school day!😄 Sometimes though I think ignorance is bliss. If I don't know something is 'wrong' then it doesn't worry me as I don't know any better. Once you learn about things in detail then it does start to niggle at me because I can't turn off my awareness that it's incorrect. However I'm also a naturally lazy person so whilst I do tend to like things to be 'correct' there's also a part of me that says 'does it really matter?'. If it's a lot of faff and/or expense to get it right then I don't bother. If it's a relatively simple matter to ensure things are done correctly then I do. I think of it as a sliding scale of correctness vs. faff. It also depends on my levels of patience at the time and skill level.
What a terrific comment. You are of course right, how these little intricacies affect us is astonishing. Sometimes, it’s who gives a dam, other times it seems vitally important. Fortunately it’s just a hobby! Regards Charlie
A quick tip for you Charlie. The derailment at 23:58 can be avoided by snipping off the vertical piece and making it level with the coupling. It takes seconds to do with a good pair of wire cutters and does not affect the running. ..... I've done it to all my rolling stock. .I hope this helps ?
My wife says "How many trains do you need?", " Do you really need another Locomotive?". I come back and say, "How many sewing machines do you need?, "I can run several trains at once but you can only use 1 machine at a time", "Do you really need more fabric?". We laugh and go on with our hobbies. Interesting video and I learned some new English Railroad terms. Funny we speak the supposed same language but have different words for the same thing.
What a coincidence, same issue here with my wife addicted to quilting; she collects quilting rulers and sewing machine feet just as I do steam and diesel locos! The dcc control systems balance out the sewing machines too. Happy days with our hobbies lol
Highly fascinating and very educational. It shows perfectly the complicated challenge met by British Rail having to manage such a patchy fleet of waggons from different periods with different equipments (brakes or no breaks but also safety, weight and clearance constraints), leading to the need of brake vans, the presence of guards and, last but not least, this puzzling head and tail light coding, all complications and complexities ignored on the continental "Europ" freight fleet introduced in the 1950s with the generalized continuous vacuum brake lines and unified technical characteristics.
@@ChadwickModelRailway Hello we have plenty of Sunshine here, even although its been a wet summer, maybe I can package some Sunshine for you and send it your way.
Charlie, you’re the happiest “sad” person I know, and I’m happy to be infected with that sort of sadness! Thinking of wagons being the right way round, your 9F rake had the end opening in random positions. This is possibly more important than the hoppers having control wheels at alternating ends. Told you it was infectious! 🙄
Charlie, I just want to say, Thank You! I've watched a good few of your videos and taken those tips into building an N Gauge layout (which I'll no doubt strip back and improve over the summer). Your video (65) about Keyboard Warriors struck a chord, as often there's ridicule on how much we spend or how 'unrealistic' layouts can look. Models are a physical interpretation of our imaginations, and we shouldn't feel belittled if our imagination doesn't match someone else's. Happy modelling sir. I am inspired (Edit to say 'doesn't match', not 'does')
Hi Charlie - great video as always packed with lots of useful info. At The risk of being even more ‘anoraky’, I noticed something at around the 12:20 mark where you are talking about the tankers behind the class 33, which. If these are TTAs, they would be air braked and not vacuum braked. The 3 letter TOPS code has uses the first letter to denote the wagon type (T=Tanker), the second letter is a the subtype, and the third is the braking system. The basic brake types are O - unfitted, V - vacuum, A - air braked. Then there are a number of other codes for through pipes, dual braking systems etc. All this makes your head spin even more when modeling the 70s and 80s when you need the right locomotive, with the right barking system, matched to the right rolling stock. Thank goodness for Ian Allan ABC Guides, otherwise we would never be able to work it out!
A fascinating video of freight. I'd be one of those members who just turned up and ran anything! 🤣 My layout which is named 'Whatif' is really an extension of my desire to run any train from anywhere! 😉 I guess my rules and to hell with real world!! 🤣 Great video and I learned so much..
@@ChadwickModelRailway Id, love to be, sadly tested positive last week so no going anywhere lol, we will get together I am sure of it chum, enjoy the show. cheers Paul
Sorry Charlie, this is a second comment. Your question about number of Gunpowder Vans that can be marshalled in a train, whether they can be formed together and the requirements for barrier vehicles is most timely. My two new Rapido vans arrived today! The 1950’s Rule Book states that, Not more than five vehicles containing explosives must be conveyed by any one train at any one time. Vehicles containing explosives or highly inflammable liquids or liquefied gasses must be marshalled as near the middle of the train as possible and in any case there must be at least two vehicles either empty or containing non-explosive traffic marshalled between the engine and the first vehicle containing explosives or highly inflammable liquids or liquefied gasses, except that for short distances between depots or private sidings and marshalling yards these two vehicles need not be provided. I hope this helps. Tony
Good stuff Tony. I joined BR in 1978 and hava feeling it had been tightened to just four explosive vans by then. At that time our "goods" 8J23 Bescot-Cambrian ran with mostly vaccy traffic. I used to go through to Pwllheli on Tuesday and would bring the loads back from Penrhydeudraeth. Always barried by two wagons from the loco and another two. By this time it was mostly 12T vanfits, handy because they often worked onto the Cambrian Coast with agricultural products like slag and lime and feedstuffs. In 1979 when Barmouth Bridge was banned to locos we used a DPU to recover all the vac fitted wagons back to Machynlleth for despatch back to Coton Hill. The DPUs were allowed 7 vehicles as tail traffic. I saw one of these trains but sadly never had a camera. Not sure how many trips there were but at least some of the wagons were CXVs. Like you my pair from Rapido are eagerly awaited - maybe tomorrow. I can then put my 8J23 together with my blue Bachmann 24/1 !!
Hearing about the Gunpowder vans reminded me of an experience told to me by a fellow worker forty years ago. He was head shunter at a provincial town during WW2. A train of explosives arrived for on-forwarding. But it had not been made up correctly, all the wagons containing the explosives were marshalled together when they had to have an empty vehicle between each one. He and his crew took ages to put it right. The detonators were a seperate consignment on an entirely different train.
New subscriber. This was one of the most entertaining videos I’ve see anytime recently. I’m in the US, and while there are several English train clubs in my area, I don’t think most people, including me, have any idea about head codes, different configurations of lamps, or even fitted or unfitted vans. I about spit out my tea when you started talking about gunpowder wagons. That was awesome. Thank you for that. Looking foreword to going through your library of videos.
Very informative. I noticed American tanker trains using barrier wagons and thought British trains must do the same. You have confirmed it. I like this sort of video, explaining operating procedures. I hope to see more - thanks so much.
Hi Charlie, we recently got an Irish setter pup my daughters and wife picked the name and out of 4 names they picked "Charlie". He is a really good dog. Enjoyed the video as always and learned a lot.
Thanks Charlie for a very informative video. To misquote Donald Rumsfeld, I knew that I didn't know much about freight trains (still goods trains to me) but I didn't know how much I didn't know. I shall now have to re-marshall and re-light my various aggregate, coal, fast fish, fast fruit, oil, milk and mixed goods stock. Quite a task that will keep me busy for a while.
Such a useful and informative video. I knew brake vans had the side lamps so the driver could see the rear of the train but I never knew it was only on unfitted trains. Thanks for a great video Charlie.
Just wanted to add to other comments thanking you for the helpful videos. I’m about to embark on an N gauge layout, and your advice will be very useful!
Superbly informative vid Charlie, told in your own inimitable style. Who knew when I was a lad, all that was going on with the goods trains passing by.
Lovely video Charlie. For your ballast train I believe Seaacows and Sealions are the names of the larger hoppers. I know Hornby have modelled the seacow and possibly the sealion but not sure about if they were modelled in engineers olive green but I know they did the Dutch grey. I also believe the only exception in the steam era for formation was the pick up goods services with frequent drops and pickups then you’d see wagons here and there. As for the gunpowder wagons unless in wartime only 5 per train were permitted but like yourself unsure on the barrier wagons. anyways enough waffling on. Thanks for sharing, Ross.
Interesting video, Charlie. What you need is a copy of the Working Manual For Rail Staff, a goldmine of information on freight trains, When you re-jigged the mixed freight, you moved the conflat wagon needlessly as that would be fitted and the gunpowder vans would have at least one barrier wagon between each pair of vans plus the same at each end. I'm sure class 5 traffic is ECS workings (class 3 until 1969). As for your coupling dilemma. Westhill Wagon Works do Hunt couplings that will cure the issue. Happy modelling...
It's no wonder it takes such a long time in a mashalling yard to put a rake together when there are all those variables. Really interesting topic and food for thought, I didn't realise that the colour of the wagon meant so much. Keep safe. Frank
Hi Charlie, interesting stuff, my wagon freight trains are now going to look much different as a result! Thanks for pulling together this video 😊 Cheers Gary
I found this video surprisingly interesting as I haven’t thought about freight running much. Thanks for a really enlightening update, Charlie. Look forward to the next one. Roy.
Charlie, another blinder and congratulations on being brave enough to expound on railway rules and regulations. Of necessity the rule book is the playground of pedants because of the potential risks if there is any variance or miscommunication. Therefore, with my hard hat and full protective clothing I venture to make a couple of points of clarification. Although I know what you mean, you said that grey brake vans have no brakes. Obviously, they do not have automatic brakes but do have the guards brake. It also may be worth mentioning that ‘fitted’ BVs have a ‘setter’ which is a facility for the guard to apply the brake throughout the train if necessary. On head codes ‘V’ is inter regional but only heading to the Western Region, not through or out of it. I can’t be one hundred percent certain but if my memory is correct, there is no reason to have a particular orientation of hopper wagons. If working properly, the operative would only get on or off the wagons when at a stand. They will also work in either direction during ballast dropping and so it doesn’t matter which end the wheels are located. I think that this was an inspired choice of subject for your tutorial. More please. Tony
Excellent film. All this knowledge adds to the enjoyment and interest. Each train has a narrative. I fully understand those who are happy to break the rules, but it always seems odd to me to not know what rules you are breaking. I would be very happy if you did more films like this. Thanks.
Everything you didn't want to know about wagons, but were afraid to ask! :) I think this is an awesome thing to be OCD about. More power to you sir, and another great educational video.
That was so informative Charlie no it's not sad if you want your layout to be real to life and as they say ocd this dose help thanks Charlie for your videos and time researching all this
Useful stuff to know, as much as I stick with Rule 1 quite a bit I'll at least put my fitted wagons at the front of the train now. It's videos like this and the DCC ones that make a difference. Educational without being overly complex about matters.
Many thanks for the fascinating tutorial Charlie. I really enjoy your style of presentation. What a comfort that wooden bodied ex-LNER fish van must have been to locomotive crew pulling fuel tankers!
🥃🥃 cheers Charlie👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻. Very informative, very interesting & for those of us who operate a shunting layout, perhaps gives food for thought a more practical purpose to doing a shunting puzzle than the usual dice or cards version.
Hi Charlie - Thankyou for the refresher, its always good to be reminded especially in my case. I found it very interesting. I will not personally worry about lights on my trains as I model N gauge and its too much fluffing about, sorry. All the same I knew nothing about lights until now and found it fascinating. You covered a lot in this one that was truly interesting, enjoyed the video a lot. Regards Chris
Brilliant. This is really interesting. I have learnt a lot from this video and your others videos. I absolutely hate the standard couplings first thing I get rid of. It's about time the manufacturers moved away from these. I mainly using Kadee but I have started using the Hunt magnetic coupling and so far on the coaches and the KUA wagons they are very good..
Hi Charlie, Thanks for another great video. I really enjoyed this one. Not having lived or worked around the time of these wagon operations I have been looking for information like this. Just found a good book about it too. Your explanations were great. 👍
Great vlog Charlie, next one should be wagon codes! ie the end letter V vacuum, A air, O unfitted, P unfitted with through vacuum piped & Q unfitted with through air piped, another minefield for you 😂🤣
V educational Charlie. As usual there are 'exceptions' to the rule and it was not uncommon for mixed freight rakes to include fitted and unfitted stock where trains often ran completely unfitted to speed up operations and given the crew a longer break! Hence you could have the scenario of bauxite vehicle following grey vehicles and vice versa. More common for branch line freight where rakes were built based on order of planned drop offs
Thanks Charlie, Another great video. Interesting about the vacuum fitted wagons. The couplings on those dogfish look similar to the rubbish ones on the cheap Dapol wagons. One way around it would be to remove them and replace with Kadee number 5s it would be permanent though I have done this with great success on some old mainline stuff. Cheers!
A very good video. I have operated Dogfish and Sharks on my local Heritage Railway, a lot of physical work and when you open a dogfish, you can't close it again. And always have sympathy for the guys who have to lower and raise the plough, that is long and hard work! I am glad to see them in a video though, I hope they do a new production run on them in the future.
Happy wife happy life. Personally I would dab a drop of something to take that high kelvin modern LED down to something a smidge warmer and prototypical of the day. Also would help diffuse like fresnel. Great video getting your rakes/consists right is a finer art or to everyone else just more sheer lunacy. ALL ABOARD!
While we're "counting rivets", I was a tad concerned at the run away 9F with no crew! However, I'm not going to tell you about the 16t mineral I accidentally put the white stripe on the wrong end of, and still haven't fixed, for fear you'll have an attack of the vapours! Always interesting and informative. Cheers
If your ballast train is going to remain a fixed rake I can heartily recommend Hunt couplings. I'm slowly converting all my stock over to them. I can't stand tension locks, even the smaller modern ones
Excellent comment Davie. I’m unsure about using hunts on this train, as I’m unsure of the finished weight and whether the magnetic couplings will stay attached when coming up the Helix. Regards Charlie
@@ChadwickModelRailway Charlie, you are in the ideal situation to fit a converter wagon with Hunts, and then run longer (normally coupled) trains up your helix to test for breakaway lengths. I shall look forward to the video on that. I plan to use a Hunt Elite as the central coupling of my tube train (for ease of handling) which has two “locomotives” and so has the risk of separation from momentary power loss in the rear section.
Thanks for the very educational Video this time around Charlie. Needless to say you have just extended my list of things to do on Yeovil Town as I am sure I have the wagons out of order and possibly the wrong guards van on each freight train but like you I need to get them right. I have given a couple of freight trains nicknames e.g. Robbie and The Dutchman - Robbie is the Coal Train and The dutchman is a van train! Weird but as soon as you think about the names you can't get them out of your head. BTW I will need to leave the lamps and head-code issues until I have a lot of time.
Hi Charlie Great channel I have run ballast on these types of wagons, 1st things is you dont get off a moving train to move to another wagon and 2nd i have never seen a messing coach on a ballast train but i started on the railway in 1983 so they could have had them prior
Hi Charlie, thank you for the information regarding the configuration of freight trains, this was something I knew very little about and now I feel more confident in connecting my rolling stock together, so thank you, Kevin from Clayton Junction.
Thanks for a very interesting video -- as a Canadian, I had no idea about the brakes/no-brakes and even the Class or Head-codes. I heard the terms a lot, but never really understood the details -- this video opened my eyes and now I can at least give some understanding to the different classes and that head-code are not just the train's id... I still have a lot to learn, but I must say it was very informative to a casual fan of British rail. As you would say "just brilliant!" eh!
Thanks as always Charlie. Great information and yet another thing for me to think about as I start my journey of creating a model railway (Wotton Tor) :-)
Really interesting Charlie. As you say, modelling is personal choice and personally I like to understand how the railways were operated to apply some of this (maybe not all) to what i model and how i run my layout so this video was a big help, thanks.
Hi Charlie. Great informative vlog as always. In regards to those couplings, if they were mine think I would get the dremel out and just nip a bit of the end so it clears the frogs and points. Might be time consuming but worth it with those Great wagons. Keep safe mucker. Pete and Su.
Charlie, thanks for another great and informative video. I’m learning all the time! I no purist but I do feel you are not sad and rightly disappointed after seeing a so called professional train magazine not getting the head code right. I personally would not have noticed the mistake as am new to the world of model train layouts but can understand your annoyance. Keep up the great work and thanks again. John.
Never mind counting rivets Charlie the brake van didn't have a tail lamp! Shock horror modelling world traumatised by leading luminary's omission :) Great video as ever. This channel is excellent.
Rivets thoroughly counted there, Charlie boy! As for the tension locks and points issue, I've had this a lot... In fact many of my issued have been caused by the stock Couplings that come with stock - seems they only work reliably if you're pulling stock around an oval of track... anything more complex and you encounter issues thus... So for this reason I've experimented with many couplings types, as I see you have also... Kadee, magnets, sprat and winkle - ANYTHING would be better than the stock Couplings...
You’re pushing on an open door on this one. I think with this rake I shall use a bar type coupling between the wagons and a KD at either end. Regards Charlie
Nice Charlie, and interesting! I always enjoy your sense of humor too! I have N scale so many days I am just happy when everything runs smoothly and stays on the rails, never mind backing long trains. So whatever order they are in is fine!
Lovely and educational. I did flinch though when I saw the 33; usually, numeric headcodes were for passenger services, and alpha for freight. Of course, if a freight train was to travel from Dartford to Charing Cross, it would get the "50" headcode (or 60 or 70 or 80 depending on which route it took) -- but few freight trains travel between passenger termini.
Charlie, Thank you, yet anotehr great video, with not only educational details, but plenty of food for thought. The Australian regs are slightly different, but we did follow the British rules, as a lot of our early designers and engineers were British, so why invent the wheel again - so to speak. You have given us lots of great material. Chees, and stay safe, Michael
Nice one Charlie - love a bit of Freight - makes a more interesting consist imho. From what I’ve read, the Gunpowder vans would be ok like that, running empty, but loaded would need barrier wagons between each, and I think I remember it May only be 2.5 tons per van. Armed Forces trains used Compression vans and could carry increased weights, tho I’m sure that this may not be the Gospel according to somebody else 😄 Quality Post , Many thanks ✨🙏🏻✨
Hi Charlie, since this is a unit train, fit Kadees on the 2 ends and snip the lift arms off those horrible couplings. It will make them look better in the interim! I don't model English Railways but I reckon it's common practice to buffer fuel trains with "safe" waggons either side of fuel stock! Nice presentation as always, thankyou.
Hi Charlie 👍 well what more can I say that was absolutely brilliant. I’ve been interested in trains all my life and in this one video I have learnt so much about freight formations I’m lost for words. Keep safe and well Andy
Hello Charlie, As a helping hand, here in Spain and Portugal, usually, all gravel and ballast cars are usually split in pairs (kindly search "Tolvas Duo") in which you would usually get a buffer to buffer unit with no discharge wheels and also the opposite. Therefore you would always work in an Abba abba abba composition. Keep well and best regards. D
Well, that was educational! And no, it's not sad. This is not about pedantic rivet counting; it's about understanding the operational aspects of railways and is what can makes railway modelling so much more interesting than just running a toy train round an oval. We just need the DCC technology to allow us to change the headcodes of locos to reflect what they are pulling.
I’m so pleased that you appreciated the video Paul and it’s great to have you onboard. Regards Charlie.
Indeed Paul, like you, I’ve also been saying that about the ability to change headcodes via DCC. I’ve seen a recent article in one of the model railway magazines recently showing working bus blinds, I would’ve thought that would be a good starting point for one of the DCC companies to start producing a changeable digital blind.
How accurate to be is really a matter of taste. Some people might be quite happy with a Thomas the Tank Engine model hauling a mix of German and US HO scale carriages; I suspect that most would not find that evocative of reality enough to bring joy. Quite how deep into detail that one goes really depends on one's own priorities; I often find that the more that I research and learn about reality, the more accurate that the model needs to be to bring me joy.
One inhabiting factor for the DCC companies, which normally produce for most railway modelling countrys, to bring changable headcodes, would be that headcodes are a rather british only thing (only other occurrences I knew of would be Compagnie des chemins de fer du Nord with 3.1192 on display in Milhouse still or reconstructed having one and some Réseau express régional d’Île-de-France trains),
other countrys got train report number / "Zugnummer" / "numérotation des trains" systems, too but not on the head showing (for example SBB five numbers, DB five numbers, ÖBB three numbers, SNCF two blocks with tree numbers each, ARTC number-letter-letter-number, ...)
The head codes could in theory be simulated with micro OLED displays. Obviously the DCC chips would need a new function for controlling said displays but it could be done. The big factor to whether it's really needed is down to cost, I'm sure Hornby would happily develop a locomotive ready to run but at £1000 per unit going by their current prices. Someone else could develop a retro fit able system for those with deep pockets and a certain level of skill that would be required to set up I guess.
Hi Charlie, I used to work in Tyne Yard Gateshead and was in charge of marshaling the engineer trains. The ballast waggons were put together with the ballast wheels facing anyway as the waggons came off different trains. Loaded ones were put into a siding awaiting another job while the empty waggons were put into a different siding to go off to get loaded so the ballast wheels could be facing anyway. On some trains we would have a mixture of dogfish, sealions or seacows. Mermaids were used as well, but these were mainly used at weekends. We used head codes 6P on our ballast trains ie 6P54. Sometimes we would put sharks at both ends of the train. Normal ballast train would consist of 10 to 15 dogfish and a shark or 10 sealions/ seacows and a shark depending on the size of the job. We didn't fit crew vans to our ballast trains as the maintenance gangs would arrange to meet the ballast trains on site and use their own mess vans on site for lunchtime or cups of tea. Hope this helps Gary from County Durham.
Hi Gary, that’s a real gem of a comment thank you so much. Regards Charlie
How did I miss this , learnt more than my little brain can remember, so going back over despite only being in 2 minutes
Every day is a school day Nigel. Regards Charlie
Another great video Charlie. The DOGFISH hoppers only had operating wheels at one end, and it didn't matter which way round they were, they would be which ever way the yard put them together. The larger 40ton hoppers (SEALION or SEACOW's) had wheels at both ends as they were split into 6 compartments instead of three (left / middle / right hand side) on the 20ton DOGFISH.
The BY van behind the 63xx was a luggage van, and only had a seat for the Guard in it, so not much us as a crew van. In fact the gangs of blokes that operated the hoppers would meet the train at a certain location, and ride out to site on the verandas (with there Tilly lamps) quite a site, but long gone in the modern H&S driven world of today.
On the subject of braked / unbraked wagons, also bear in mind that some of the grey un braked wagons were through piped, which meant that whilst the brakes on that vehicle would not operate, a fitted (braked) vehicle behind it could, so like most thing railway related, nothing is straight forward.
An excellent comment Richard, thank you.
I was aware of the through braked wagons, but thought it best to leave that complication for another day! Regards Charlie
A wonderful piece of anorak-ism. So detailed but I feel that’s the detail some of us are looking to achieve. As a boy in the 1980’’s I was very happy just to run random trains around my basic layout. But as a 50yr old boy I now want to create the most accurate layout I possibly can, right down correct headcodes and brake vans. Thank you for addressing this subject Charlie and providing some education for us amateurs.
Every day is a school day William, for us all.
The more I watch your excellent productions, the more I realise just how little I know. Fascinating. I too, ventured up in the loft the other day, my better half decided to pop up there too. She didn't use the word "Gosh" however. She stood there gawping at the various rolling stock, all made up into various "trains" and I could tell immediately that she was counting the number of wagons in her head. She disappeared back down the ladder and it was several hours before she uttered a word to me, which I am unable to reproduce here. Fortunately, she didn't see the two cardboard boxes which are both full of stock.....! Great stuff Charlie, as always. Best regards Nige.
Ha ha! I am fortunate my wife doesn't like going up loft ladders! Once the latest purchase is safely up there we're in the clear! ;-)
Top tip. Leve the cobwebs alone to help make it a wife free zone.
@@daviemaclean61 My wife is the same, I've told her that when I've finished "I will let her come up and have a look, but not until then as there's a lot of boxes on the floor". I"ve been at it for the last forty years so the finish line is still quite a way off!
Unfortunately once in a while my wife watches my UA-cam videos - that’s when the awkward questions start!
Let's hope your wife doesn't start checking retail sites for the price of stuff 😅
Thank you Charlie. Sometimes it’s the simplest things that suddenly make sense. Until now I never knew the difference between grey and bauxite painted wagons. In my naïveté I’d thought it was some time-related corporate livery change.
Every day is a school day Will, for both of us! Regards Charlie
I did not know that about the colour of the wagons either.
Me too. 😀
As you say, every day is a school day , thanx for this Charlie .
Excuse me for contradicting you a bit Charlie, but the brown or grey colour of the brake van isn't dependent on the brakes of the brake van... because most brake vans were unfitted.
The colour related to the 'pipe' passing through the wagon.
A brown van would indicate a brake van with a through 'vaccum pipe', where it would have vacuum brake connecters on the bufferbeam of the wagon, but they would go straight through the wagon to a connector on the bufferbeam at the other end, but didn't activated any brakes on the wagon (because they didn't exist).
For a grey brakevan, these didn't have any brake pipe connectors at all.
The purpose of a brake van was to use the handbrake wheel in the van to keep the couplings taught.
For an unfitted train, at the top of a hill, the handbrakes of the wagons would be partially applied, and at the end the brake van would be used to keep the weight of the wagons from pushing the loco down the hill and causing a 'runaway train'.
At the bottom of the hill the handbrakes of the wagons would be released, and the brake van would keep the couplings taught so they wouldn't 'snatch' and break.
Snatching brakes is caused by the concertina effect, where the slack between each wagon being pulled apart, that energy increases down the train, causing a violent snap towards the end of the train... a force that can break the metal coupling!!
It's a lot like a whip... giving a violent shake at the handle end makes the movement energy flow up the length of the rope and causes a powerful flick at the other end, so violent the energy results in a loud snap at the end!!
In 1972, BR started using the TOPS system, which used 3-digit code letters to indicate the types of wagons, with the last digit indicating the brakes on the wagons.
A = Air Brakes
B = Air Brakes and through Vacuum Pipe.
O = No Brake (Hand Only), Unfitted.
P = No Brake (Hand Only), through Vacuum Pipe only.
Q = No Brake (Hand Only), through Air Pipe only.
R = No Brake (Hand Only), through Air and Vacuum pipe only
V = Vacuum Brakes
W = Vacuum Brakes, through Air pipe.
X = Dual Vacuum and Air Brakes
If we look at your coal wagon from 5:15, under TOPS that would be a MHV... V meaning Vacuum braked.
At 6:10, the Grey brake van would become a CAO, O meaning O = No Brake (Hand Only), Unfitted.
The brown van would become a CAP No Brake (Hand Only), through Vacuum Pipe only.
In the mid 1960's, Ashford works constructed brake vans with through air pipes (pic below).
To seperate them from usual brown 'piped' wagons, they were given a yellow panel.
Under TOPS, these were coded CAR, R = No Brake (Hand Only), through Air and Vacuum pipe only
www.flickr.com/photos/55938574@N03/10036474725/in/photolist-ghTygF
Your Shark is from the late 70's/early 80's when engineers wagons were painted in Olive.
The TOPS code is a ZUV.
Z = Departmental, Two axles (bogie departmental wagons have a 'Y' prefix)
U = sub-type
V = Vacuum brakes.
Regarding your Dogfish, and you referenceing seeing other types in a rake... these are probably Catfish.
Catfish are very similar but have shorter hopper bogies, and they only have a single chute for placing ballast in the middle.
And here's a photo of a train with the second wagon behind the loco being a Catfish, as is the seventh and the sixth wagon is a Mermaid
www.flickr.com/photos/httpwwwpeakdaleworkscom/51643870786/
(The photo may be too modern for your era, but how they were used really didn't change!
The Catfish and Mermaid are avilable as models from Cambrian Kits
Catfish is kit no. C11
www.eileensemporium.com/materials-for-modellers/product/cambrian-br-catfish-19t-ballast-hopper/category_pathway-4233
Mermaid is kit no. C13
www.eileensemporium.com/materials-for-modellers/product/cambrian-br-14t-mermaid-side-tipping-ballast-wagon/category_pathway-4233
And, of course, the nice thing about kits is that you can have something different to the usual ready-to-run stuff everyone else has... and you can always get the mental buzz of "I made that!" whenever you look at it!!
Regarding couplings... I use Kadee's, but Hunt's Couplings magnetic version is probably available for the Dogfish and will be cheaper to fit.
Hope that's useful to you!
Cheers
Laura
Thanks for this Laura,
I thinks that I'll include updates and corrections in my Spring Update.
Regards Charlie.
I’d been looking for this list, since TTA tankers would appear to be air-braked under this nomenclature.
Excellent additional info.
Your not sad mate.... If anyone is "sad", then it must be me because I really enjoy watching model railways... As well as the real thing... Because I suffer with aspergers syndrome, I just find it extremely therapeutic to watch.. Especially the scenery, the detail, the weathered look on the rolling stock.... Absolutely brilliant and I take my hat off to you as well as other enthusiasts....
What a heartwarming comment Nigel, you’re too kind. Regards Charlie
Because everything in this hobby will always been a compromise to some degree, these days I approach the trains I run as something akin to an Impressionist painting of the prototypes. In that I do try my best to keep them 'realistic' with a small 'r' and this works for me. It is about fun at the end of the day. But having said that I found this video very useful as I can do this with the stock I already have and no sweating or expense. So thank you.
I’m so pleased that you found the video useful mate. Regards Charlie
Charlie, as a result of your very succinct explaination that Bauxite painted wagons were vacuum fitted and Grey painted wagons were unfitted, my flabber was well and truly gasted. It was so gasted that I phoned my rail-pal of nearly 70yrs residing in the US of A and asked him "Did you know that?" When after an uncharacteristic moment of silence he said "No", I realised that his flabber was gasted as well. So Charlie, how, in over 60yrs of railfanning did we not know that? Can't believe it - hidden in plain sight! But, are we alone .......?!!!!
Rest assured Nicholas, you are not alone. Just remember that every day is a school day for a railway modeller. Regards Charlie
Well Done -as a retired railwayman I enjoyed this. Couple of observations [not a criticism] Wagons began to be painted bauxite in the 70s whether fitted on not. Most brake vans were "Piped Only" but painted bauxite. V was Western region, E was Eastern. S was Scottish, M was Midland and O was Southern region! An anomaly on Tyneside was the steam hauled Tyne Dock-Consett ore trains which were fully fitted but ran Class H with headlamps "straight up and down" In the 70s on Tyneside ballast trains were usually 9Txx, Local Traffic engines were 9Pxx e.g. 9P30 0630 Tyne Yard -Consett [two trips which were untimetabled]
Great info French steam.
Much appreciated, regards Charlie
Nice update you done thanks for sharing.
You’re most welcome mate, regards Charlie
@@ChadwickModelRailway Thanks Charlie
Charlie, your videos teach me something without fail, every time I watch one. I’m ashamed to admit I didn’t realise the colour of the wagons had a connection to they’re brake fitment. You are a font of information and I’m so glad I found your channel. I hope you’re keeping well, it sure looks like you are.
What a heartwarming comment Chris, you’re too kind mate.
Well that was educational, lots of stuff I didn't know so thank you Charlie. They do say every day's a school day!😄
Sometimes though I think ignorance is bliss. If I don't know something is 'wrong' then it doesn't worry me as I don't know any better. Once you learn about things in detail then it does start to niggle at me because I can't turn off my awareness that it's incorrect.
However I'm also a naturally lazy person so whilst I do tend to like things to be 'correct' there's also a part of me that says 'does it really matter?'. If it's a lot of faff and/or expense to get it right then I don't bother. If it's a relatively simple matter to ensure things are done correctly then I do.
I think of it as a sliding scale of correctness vs. faff. It also depends on my levels of patience at the time and skill level.
What a terrific comment. You are of course right, how these little intricacies affect us is astonishing. Sometimes, it’s who gives a dam, other times it seems vitally important. Fortunately it’s just a hobby! Regards Charlie
A quick tip for you Charlie. The derailment at 23:58 can be avoided by snipping off the vertical piece and making it level with the coupling. It takes seconds to do with a good pair of wire cutters and does not affect the running. ..... I've done it to all my rolling stock. .I hope this helps ?
I understand your point Daniel, however the couplings are simply poorly designed. Regards Charlie
My wife says "How many trains do you need?", " Do you really need another Locomotive?". I come back and say, "How many sewing machines do you need?, "I can run several trains at once but you can only use 1 machine at a time", "Do you really need more fabric?". We laugh and go on with our hobbies. Interesting video and I learned some new English Railroad terms. Funny we speak the supposed same language but have different words for the same thing.
Snap,
What a coincidence, same issue here with my wife addicted to quilting; she collects quilting rulers and sewing machine feet just as I do steam and diesel locos! The dcc control systems balance out the sewing machines too. Happy days with our hobbies lol
Very much enjoyed learning about British railroads. I didn’t know there were braked and non-braked fitted cars.
Thanks Charlie. Another bright light onFriday night.
Thanks Kevin, that’s very kind of you to say so, regards Charlie
Highly fascinating and very educational. It shows perfectly the complicated challenge met by British Rail having to manage such a patchy fleet of waggons from different periods with different equipments (brakes or no breaks but also safety, weight and clearance constraints), leading to the need of brake vans, the presence of guards and, last but not least, this puzzling head and tail light coding, all complications and complexities ignored on the continental "Europ" freight fleet introduced in the 1950s with the generalized continuous vacuum brake lines and unified technical characteristics.
I’m so pleased that you found it interesting Jean. Regards Charlie
What a cracking vid! Genuinely went Ohhhh! as the penny dropped about the headcode disks....
I’m so pleased that you found it interesting mate. Regards Charlie
Model railways have always fascinated me. Great video. Hello from South Africa.
I’m so pleased that you found it interesting, if only we had sunshine this time of year as well. Regards Charlie
@@ChadwickModelRailway Hello we have plenty of Sunshine here, even although its been a wet summer, maybe I can package some Sunshine for you and send it your way.
Extremely educational. One of the best videos to date. Also liked the comment from Gateshead🤙
I’m so pleased that you enjoyed it. Jeffrey, it was certainly interesting to put the video together. Regards, Charlie
Charlie, you’re the happiest “sad” person I know, and I’m happy to be infected with that sort of sadness!
Thinking of wagons being the right way round, your 9F rake had the end opening in random positions. This is possibly more important than the hoppers having control wheels at alternating ends.
Told you it was infectious! 🙄
And I see your comment that the end doors fell out of favour as other unloading methods were adopted.
Yes Tom, this damn railway modelling malarkey, is truly infectious.
Regards Charlie
I thoroughly enjoyed this video. The video was very educational.
Every day is a school day, for railway modellers Steve, regards Charlie
Quite simply , one of your best yet , and there have been a few of them. Thank you.
Sadly, the next one is bound to fail!
Despite how busy life gets, always a pleasure to see the next video from my model railroad professor!
What a heartwarming comment mate. You’re too kind, regards Charlie.
Charlie, I just want to say, Thank You!
I've watched a good few of your videos and taken those tips into building an N Gauge layout (which I'll no doubt strip back and improve over the summer).
Your video (65) about Keyboard Warriors struck a chord, as often there's ridicule on how much we spend or how 'unrealistic' layouts can look.
Models are a physical interpretation of our imaginations, and we shouldn't feel belittled if our imagination doesn't match someone else's.
Happy modelling sir. I am inspired
(Edit to say 'doesn't match', not 'does')
What a heartwarming comment Rob, you’re too kind mate. Regards Charlie
Hi Charlie - great video as always packed with lots of useful info. At The risk of being even more ‘anoraky’, I noticed something at around the 12:20 mark where you are talking about the tankers behind the class 33, which. If these are TTAs, they would be air braked and not vacuum braked. The 3 letter TOPS code has uses the first letter to denote the wagon type (T=Tanker), the second letter is a the subtype, and the third is the braking system. The basic brake types are O - unfitted, V - vacuum, A - air braked. Then there are a number of other codes for through pipes, dual braking systems etc. All this makes your head spin even more when modeling the 70s and 80s when you need the right locomotive, with the right barking system, matched to the right rolling stock. Thank goodness for Ian Allan ABC Guides, otherwise we would never be able to work it out!
A great spot James regarding the TT A’s. However the head code on the 33 was wrong too! Regards Charlie
EP 25 soldering to track. NICE ROLEX
I only mention as comments are turned off on that one. It crystallises all your videos nicely.
Hi Josef,
No comments should be turned off so I shall check it out.
Regards Charlie
A fascinating video of freight.
I'd be one of those members who just turned up and ran anything! 🤣
My layout which is named 'Whatif' is really an extension of my desire to run any train from anywhere! 😉
I guess my rules and to hell with real world!! 🤣
Great video and I learned so much..
I’m so pleased that you enjoyed it Mike.However, as they say it’s your layout, your rules. Regards Charlie
I enjoyed that Charlie, and learned a lot cheers Paul at Sandling Junction
Thanks Paul. I’m at Ally Pally on Sunday if you’re around.
@@ChadwickModelRailway Id, love to be, sadly tested positive last week so no going anywhere lol, we will get together I am sure of it chum, enjoy the show. cheers Paul
Thank you for your reply. Your channel is always full of interesting information!
You’re too kind Fred. Regards Charlie.
Sorry Charlie, this is a second comment. Your question about number of Gunpowder Vans that can be marshalled in a train, whether they can be formed together and the requirements for barrier vehicles is most timely. My two new Rapido vans arrived today!
The 1950’s Rule Book states that,
Not more than five vehicles containing
explosives must be conveyed by any one train at any one time. Vehicles containing explosives or highly inflammable liquids or liquefied gasses must be marshalled as near the middle of the train as possible and in any case there must be at least two vehicles either empty or containing non-explosive
traffic marshalled between the engine and the first vehicle containing explosives or highly inflammable
liquids or liquefied gasses, except that for short distances between depots or private sidings and marshalling yards these two vehicles need not be provided.
I hope this helps. Tony
Brilliant Tony, great info and much appreciated.
Good stuff Tony.
I joined BR in 1978 and hava feeling it had been tightened to just four explosive vans by then. At that time our "goods" 8J23 Bescot-Cambrian ran with mostly vaccy traffic. I used to go through to Pwllheli on Tuesday and would bring the loads back from Penrhydeudraeth. Always barried by two wagons from the loco and another two. By this time it was mostly 12T vanfits, handy because they often worked onto the Cambrian Coast with agricultural products like slag and lime and feedstuffs.
In 1979 when Barmouth Bridge was banned to locos we used a DPU to recover all the vac fitted wagons back to Machynlleth for despatch back to Coton Hill. The DPUs were allowed 7 vehicles as tail traffic. I saw one of these trains but sadly never had a camera. Not sure how many trips there were but at least some of the wagons were CXVs. Like you my pair from Rapido are eagerly awaited - maybe tomorrow. I can then put my 8J23 together with my blue Bachmann 24/1 !!
@@philbartlett7898 nice memories Phil. Old guard stories would make a good book and really useful information for modellers.
Hearing about the Gunpowder vans reminded me of an experience told to me by a fellow worker forty years ago. He was head shunter at a provincial town during WW2. A train of explosives arrived for on-forwarding. But it had not been made up correctly, all the wagons containing the explosives were marshalled together when they had to have an empty vehicle between each one. He and his crew took ages to put it right. The detonators were a seperate consignment on an entirely different train.
Very interesting and educational video, looks like investing in a few railroad books.
It’s a great subject to research.
Regards Charlie
Very educational Charlie, re Dapol couplings, I snip the bottom mil or two off the droppers with rail cutters and file the corners round
Hi Chris, I intend to replace them with a solid bar and put KDs on the ends.
Who knew there was so much to running trains. Great video Charlie. 👍🏻
Every day is a school day Peter. Regards Charlie.
New subscriber. This was one of the most entertaining videos I’ve see anytime recently. I’m in the US, and while there are several English train clubs in my area, I don’t think most people, including me, have any idea about head codes, different configurations of lamps, or even fitted or unfitted vans. I about spit out my tea when you started talking about gunpowder wagons. That was awesome. Thank you for
that. Looking foreword to going through your library of videos.
What a heartwarming comment Barry, it’s great to have you on board mate. Regards Charlie
Charlie, Many thanks for an excellent and informative video. Roger
I’m so pleased you found it interesting Roger. Regards Charlie
Very informative. I noticed American tanker trains using barrier wagons and thought British trains must do the same. You have confirmed it. I like this sort of video, explaining operating procedures. I hope to see more - thanks so much.
I’m so pleased that you found it interesting Clive. Regards Charlie
Hi Charlie, we recently got an Irish setter pup my daughters and wife picked the name and out of 4 names they picked "Charlie". He is a really good dog. Enjoyed the video as always and learned a lot.
I can only wag my tail in agreement mate. Regards Charlie
@@ChadwickModelRailway you must be barking, Charlie! 🙄
Thanks Charlie for a very informative video. To misquote Donald Rumsfeld, I knew that I didn't know much about freight trains (still goods trains to me) but I didn't know how much I didn't know. I shall now have to re-marshall and re-light my various aggregate, coal, fast fish, fast fruit, oil, milk and mixed goods stock. Quite a task that will keep me busy for a while.
Such a useful and informative video. I knew brake vans had the side lamps so the driver could see the rear of the train but I never knew it was only on unfitted trains. Thanks for a great video Charlie.
Every day is a school day, for us railway modellers. Regards Charlie
Even though I now model Australian outline rather than British, this one was still a very interesting video. Really enjoyed it
That’s great Geoff I’m so pleased that you found it interesting. Regards Charlie
Learned some things there, thanks Charlie.
Every day is a school day for us railway modellers mate. Regards Charlie
Thanks for that Charlie it was really interesting now I've got a much better understanding of running freight.
Cheers Bryan
I’m so pleased that you found it interesting Bryan, regards Charlie
Just wanted to add to other comments thanking you for the helpful videos. I’m about to embark on an N gauge layout, and your advice will be very useful!
Thanks Andrew, I’m so pleased that you find the channel interesting.
Superbly informative vid Charlie, told in your own inimitable style. Who knew when I was a lad, all that was going on with the goods trains passing by.
Every day is a school day Clive, for us railway modellers.
One of your best videos yet. Thoroughly enjoyed learning something new! Lovely to see my favourite kind of locos and goods running too.
Thanks Josh, what a heartwarming comment. Regards Charlie
Lovely video Charlie.
For your ballast train I believe Seaacows and Sealions are the names of the larger hoppers. I know Hornby have modelled the seacow and possibly the sealion but not sure about if they were modelled in engineers olive green but I know they did the Dutch grey.
I also believe the only exception in the steam era for formation was the pick up goods services with frequent drops and pickups then you’d see wagons here and there.
As for the gunpowder wagons unless in wartime only 5 per train were permitted but like yourself unsure on the barrier wagons.
anyways enough waffling on.
Thanks for sharing,
Ross.
A great comment Ross and much appreciated. I shall certainly look into the other hopper types.
Regards Charlie
Interesting video, Charlie. What you need is a copy of the Working Manual For Rail Staff, a goldmine of information on freight trains, When you re-jigged the mixed freight, you moved the conflat wagon needlessly as that would be fitted and the gunpowder vans would have at least one barrier wagon between each pair of vans plus the same at each end. I'm sure class 5 traffic is ECS workings (class 3 until 1969). As for your coupling dilemma. Westhill Wagon Works do Hunt couplings that will cure the issue. Happy modelling...
A great comment and your advice will be included in the Spring Update along with other contributions.
Regards Charlie
It's no wonder it takes such a long time in a mashalling yard to put a rake together when there are all those variables. Really interesting topic and food for thought, I didn't realise that the colour of the wagon meant so much. Keep safe. Frank
Every day is a school day, for a railway modellers Frank. Regards Charlie
Very educational now I need to reconfigure all my freight trains ..
I’m so pleased I’ve given you yet another task Gordon. Regards Charlie
Hi Charlie, interesting stuff, my wagon freight trains are now going to look much different as a result! Thanks for pulling together this video 😊 Cheers Gary
I’m so pleased that you found the video useful Gary.
Great video and thanks for explaining the different meaning between Bauxite and Grey liveried vehicles.
You’re most welcome mate. Regards Charlie
Another great explanation Charlie, been a mystery to me based in AUS. Well done 👍
Thanks Robert, it was interesting doing the research too. Regards Charlie
I found this video surprisingly interesting as I haven’t thought about freight running much. Thanks for a really enlightening update, Charlie. Look forward to the next one. Roy.
What a heartwarming comment Roy, you’re too kind mate. Regards Charlie.
Charlie, another blinder and congratulations on being brave enough to expound on railway rules and regulations. Of necessity the rule book is the playground of pedants because of the potential risks if there is any variance or miscommunication. Therefore, with my hard hat and full protective clothing I venture to make a couple of points of clarification. Although I know what you mean, you said that grey brake vans have no brakes. Obviously, they do not have automatic brakes but do have the guards brake. It also may be worth mentioning that ‘fitted’ BVs have a ‘setter’ which is a facility for the guard to apply the brake throughout the train if necessary.
On head codes ‘V’ is inter regional but only heading to the Western Region, not through or out of it.
I can’t be one hundred percent certain but if my memory is correct, there is no reason to have a particular orientation of hopper wagons. If working properly, the operative would only get on or off the wagons when at a stand. They will also work in either direction during ballast dropping and so it doesn’t matter which end the wheels are located. I think that this was an inspired choice of subject for your tutorial. More please. Tony
I've never learnt so much in a short space of time, thank you for your efforts, very interesting.
I’m so pleased that you enjoyed it, and happy camping.
Excellent film. All this knowledge adds to the enjoyment and interest. Each train has a narrative. I fully understand those who are happy to break the rules, but it always seems odd to me to not know what rules you are breaking. I would be very happy if you did more films like this. Thanks.
I shall certainly add this type of topic to the list. Regards Charlie
Really enjoyed that Charlie. I learned a great deal from it. I shall look more closely at the photos in my books now! Many thanks.
Every day is a school day for us railway modellers mate.
Everything you didn't want to know about wagons, but were afraid to ask! :) I think this is an awesome thing to be OCD about. More power to you sir, and another great educational video.
I’m so pleased that you found it interesting Bill. Regards Charlie
That was so informative Charlie no it's not sad if you want your layout to be real to life and as they say ocd this dose help thanks Charlie for your videos and time researching all this
Thanks Adam, it’s great to have you on board mate.
I’m so pleased you found it interesting Adam. Regards Charlie
I have been watching your channel for ages now I'm loving your layout build and I do enjoy your extra content
Useful stuff to know, as much as I stick with Rule 1 quite a bit I'll at least put my fitted wagons at the front of the train now. It's videos like this and the DCC ones that make a difference. Educational without being overly complex about matters.
Thanks Martin, that’s very kind of you to say so.
Many thanks for the fascinating tutorial Charlie. I really enjoy your style of presentation. What a comfort that wooden bodied ex-LNER fish van must have been to locomotive crew pulling fuel tankers!
I’m so pleased that you found the video interesting Douglas. I shall be an update to the video in my spring update. Regards Charlie
Very interesting, and not sad at all. If we are modelling, we may as well get it right
Every day is a school day if you’re a railway modeller. Regards Charlie
🥃🥃 cheers Charlie👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻. Very informative, very interesting & for those of us who operate a shunting layout, perhaps gives food for thought a more practical purpose to doing a shunting puzzle than the usual dice or cards version.
Thanks Paul, I’m so pleased that you found it interesting. Regards Charlie.
Hi Charlie - Thankyou for the refresher, its always good to be reminded especially in my case. I found it very interesting.
I will not personally worry about lights on my trains as I model N gauge and its too much fluffing about, sorry.
All the same I knew nothing about lights until now and found it fascinating.
You covered a lot in this one that was truly interesting, enjoyed the video a lot.
Regards Chris
I’m so pleased that you found it interesting Chris. Regards Charlie
Brilliant. This is really interesting. I have learnt a lot from this video and your others videos. I absolutely hate the standard couplings first thing I get rid of. It's about time the manufacturers moved away from these. I mainly using Kadee but I have started using the Hunt magnetic coupling and so far on the coaches and the KUA wagons they are very good..
A wise move mate. I use Hunts on my HST but worry about their strength on long goods trains, coming up the helix.
Regards Charlie
Hi Charlie, Thanks for another great video. I really enjoyed this one. Not having lived or worked around the time of these wagon operations I have been looking for information like this. Just found a good book about it too. Your explanations were great. 👍
Thanks Michael, that’s somewhat reassuring. Regards Charlie
Great vlog Charlie, next one should be wagon codes! ie the end letter V vacuum, A air, O unfitted, P unfitted with through vacuum piped & Q unfitted with through air piped, another minefield for you 😂🤣
I try to concentrate on the pre-tops era fortunately, regards Charlie
V educational Charlie. As usual there are 'exceptions' to the rule and it was not uncommon for mixed freight rakes to include fitted and unfitted stock where trains often ran completely unfitted to speed up operations and given the crew a longer break! Hence you could have the scenario of bauxite vehicle following grey vehicles and vice versa. More common for branch line freight where rakes were built based on order of planned drop offs
An excellent comment, and most useful to us all.
Regards, Charlie
Thanks Charlie,
Another great video. Interesting about the vacuum fitted wagons. The couplings on those dogfish look similar to the rubbish ones on the cheap Dapol wagons. One way around it would be to remove them and replace with Kadee number 5s it would be permanent though I have done this with great success on some old mainline stuff. Cheers!
I will probably go with a solid coupling bar, and KD couplings and either end.
Absolutely fasinating, thanks Charlie.
Thanks David, I’m so pleased that you enjoyed it mate.
A very good video. I have operated Dogfish and Sharks on my local Heritage Railway, a lot of physical work and when you open a dogfish, you can't close it again. And always have sympathy for the guys who have to lower and raise the plough, that is long and hard work!
I am glad to see them in a video though, I hope they do a new production run on them in the future.
What a fascinating comment mate, very much appreciated, regards Charlie
Happy wife happy life. Personally I would dab a drop of something to take that high kelvin modern LED down to something a smidge warmer and prototypical of the day. Also would help diffuse like fresnel. Great video getting your rakes/consists right is a finer art or to everyone else just more sheer lunacy. ALL ABOARD!
Good point Josef. Regards Charlie.
While we're "counting rivets", I was a tad concerned at the run away 9F with no crew!
However, I'm not going to tell you about the 16t mineral I accidentally put the white stripe on the wrong end of, and still haven't fixed, for fear you'll have an attack of the vapours! Always interesting and informative. Cheers
If your ballast train is going to remain a fixed rake I can heartily recommend Hunt couplings. I'm slowly converting all my stock over to them. I can't stand tension locks, even the smaller modern ones
Excellent comment Davie. I’m unsure about using hunts on this train, as I’m unsure of the finished weight and whether the magnetic couplings will stay attached when coming up the Helix. Regards Charlie
@@ChadwickModelRailway Charlie, you are in the ideal situation to fit a converter wagon with Hunts, and then run longer (normally coupled) trains up your helix to test for breakaway lengths.
I shall look forward to the video on that.
I plan to use a Hunt Elite as the central coupling of my tube train (for ease of handling) which has two “locomotives” and so has the risk of separation from momentary power loss in the rear section.
Thanks for the very educational Video this time around Charlie. Needless to say you have just extended my list of things to do on Yeovil Town as I am sure I have the wagons out of order and possibly the wrong guards van on each freight train but like you I need to get them right. I have given a couple of freight trains nicknames e.g. Robbie and The Dutchman - Robbie is the Coal Train and The dutchman is a van train! Weird but as soon as you think about the names you can't get them out of your head. BTW I will need to leave the lamps and head-code issues until I have a lot of time.
We just add these tasks to our ever increasing list Paul.
Regards Charlie.
Hi Charlie
Great channel
I have run ballast on these types of wagons, 1st things is you dont get off a moving train to move to another wagon and 2nd i have never seen a messing coach on a ballast train but i started on the railway in 1983 so they could have had them prior
No you’re right Steve. On further investigation there was no supporting coach etc. regards Charlie
YES! Charlie said ‘realistic’. Good on you sir…
I thought you’d like that Timothy! Regards Charlie
Hi Charlie, thank you for the information regarding the configuration of freight trains, this was something I knew very little about and now I feel more confident in connecting my rolling stock together, so thank you, Kevin from Clayton Junction.
That’s very kind of you to say so Kevin. Regards Charlie
Charlie What an educational vlog. Well done
Thanks Martyn, I’m so pleased that you enjoyed it mate.
Thank you for a very interesting video.
I’m so pleased that you found it interesting mate.
Thanks for a very interesting video -- as a Canadian, I had no idea about the brakes/no-brakes and even the Class or Head-codes. I heard the terms a lot, but never really understood the details -- this video opened my eyes and now I can at least give some understanding to the different classes and that head-code are not just the train's id... I still have a lot to learn, but I must say it was very informative to a casual fan of British rail. As you would say "just brilliant!" eh!
Thanks Paul, I’m so pleased that you enjoyed it.
Thanks as always Charlie. Great information and yet another thing for me to think about as I start my journey of creating a model railway (Wotton Tor) :-)
Every day is a school day mate, when you’re a railway modeller!
Really interesting Charlie. As you say, modelling is personal choice and personally I like to understand how the railways were operated to apply some of this (maybe not all) to what i model and how i run my layout so this video was a big help, thanks.
Thanks Andy, I’m so pleased that you found it interesting mate.
Hi Charlie.
Great informative vlog as always.
In regards to those couplings, if they were mine think I would get the dremel out and just nip a bit of the end so it clears the frogs and points. Might be time consuming but worth it with those Great wagons.
Keep safe mucker.
Pete and Su.
I will use a solid bar to connect the wagons and KDs at the ends. Regards Charlie
Thanks Charlie every day a School day 😁👍
You did right Colin we all are here to learn. Regards Charlie
Charlie, thanks for another great and informative video. I’m learning all the time! I no purist but I do feel you are not sad and rightly disappointed after seeing a so called professional train magazine not getting the head code right. I personally would not have noticed the mistake as am new to the world of model train layouts but can understand your annoyance. Keep up the great work and thanks again. John.
I’m so pleased that you enjoyed the video John, it’s great to have you on board. Regards Charlie
Never mind counting rivets Charlie the brake van didn't have a tail lamp! Shock horror modelling world traumatised by leading luminary's omission :) Great video as ever. This channel is excellent.
Thanks OF, it’s great to have you onboard. Regards Charlie
Rivets thoroughly counted there, Charlie boy!
As for the tension locks and points issue, I've had this a lot... In fact many of my issued have been caused by the stock Couplings that come with stock - seems they only work reliably if you're pulling stock around an oval of track... anything more complex and you encounter issues thus...
So for this reason I've experimented with many couplings types, as I see you have also...
Kadee, magnets, sprat and winkle - ANYTHING would be better than the stock Couplings...
You’re pushing on an open door on this one. I think with this rake I shall use a bar type coupling between the wagons and a KD at either end. Regards Charlie
@@ChadwickModelRailway I like that saying, never heard it before!😁
Look forward to the update anyway! Cheers!
Nice Charlie, and interesting! I always enjoy your sense of humor too! I have N scale so many days I am just happy when everything runs smoothly and stays on the rails, never mind backing long trains. So whatever order they are in is fine!
Rest assured John, I know the feeling, sometimes we just need to be grateful!
Lovely and educational. I did flinch though when I saw the 33; usually, numeric headcodes were for passenger services, and alpha for freight. Of course, if a freight train was to travel from Dartford to Charing Cross, it would get the "50" headcode (or 60 or 70 or 80 depending on which route it took) -- but few freight trains travel between passenger termini.
An excellent point John, I’m on the case.
Charlie, Thank you, yet anotehr great video, with not only educational details, but plenty of food for thought.
The Australian regs are slightly different, but we did follow the British rules, as a lot of our early designers and engineers were British, so why invent the wheel again - so to speak.
You have given us lots of great material.
Chees, and stay safe, Michael
I’m so pleased that you found it interesting Michael. It was interesting to research it too.
Nice one Charlie - love a bit of Freight - makes a more interesting consist imho. From what I’ve read, the Gunpowder vans would be ok like that, running empty, but loaded would need barrier wagons between each, and I think I remember it May only be 2.5 tons per van. Armed Forces trains used Compression vans and could carry increased weights, tho I’m sure that this may not be the Gospel according to somebody else 😄 Quality Post , Many thanks ✨🙏🏻✨
The gunpowder vans are a nightmare. Apparently you only need a barrier van between every two vans. Regards Charlie
Hi Charlie, since this is a unit train, fit Kadees on the 2 ends and snip the lift arms off those horrible couplings. It will make them look better in the interim!
I don't model English Railways but I reckon it's common practice to buffer fuel trains with "safe" waggons either side of fuel stock!
Nice presentation as always, thankyou.
Thanks Peter, what I intend to do is to fit a rigid coupling between all the vehicles, with KD’s at either end. Regards Charlie
Thanks Charlie. I love these educational videos. Keep them coming please.
I shall do my best Anthony, regards Charlie
Hi Charlie 👍 well what more can I say that was absolutely brilliant. I’ve been interested in trains all my life and in this one video I have learnt so much about freight formations I’m lost for words.
Keep safe and well
Andy
Thanks very much Andy, what a very kind comment. Regards Charlie
I laughed out loud when you said "Life's a worry". I suppose there's still some hope for us railway modellers.
Every day is a school day, spam can man, for us railway modellers.
Hello Charlie,
As a helping hand, here in Spain and Portugal, usually, all gravel and ballast cars are usually split in pairs (kindly search "Tolvas Duo") in which you would usually get a buffer to buffer unit with no discharge wheels and also the opposite. Therefore you would always work in an Abba abba abba composition.
Keep well and best regards.
D
Thanks, that’s very interesting David.
Regards Charlie