Two-Stroke Showdown: KTM 300SX vs. Yamaha YZ300
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- Опубліковано 14 гру 2021
- When we heard that Jaime from Twisted Development was in the process of building 2 #twostroke 300cc project bikes, we knew we had to see them in person. Well, here they are! Jaime took a bone stock 2021 KTM 250SX and a 2022 Yamaha YZ250 two-stroke and dropped in a 300cc kit into both. We took both bikes and held multiple days of testing with head-to-head action to see which bike came out on top in this Two-Stroke Showdown. Turn your volume up and tune in to get your #twostroketuesday fix this week.
MB01OWGISND5OUE - Спорт
So cool. I raced my Dads modded 300sx in 2008 in Open B, and that bike was so insanely fast. Shredded 450's all day before it shook my arms off. Loved every second of it.
these bikes are both so rad!!
I have a 99 YZ250 with a big bore kit. I just turned 60, it is so fun, you just sit back and enjoy the ride.
@@EarthSurferUSA 1993 CR250R modded for woods riding, digs like a 4 stroke on low end, midrange hits, top end scream is tammed.
YZ's have a very distinct sound!! best of all 2 smokers...
Both such badass bikes. I couldn’t pick a favorite I’m just glad the two stroke hasn’t gone the way of the dinosaurs yet!
It's easy to pick.. ktms are EFI now, YZs are not. Ktm has always been ahead in technology and I've had both ktms and YZs since 5 yrs old
Thanks for breaking down the details and keeping us in the loop. 👍
I have a feeling 2 strokes are coming back little by little and wouldn't that be cool if Kawasaki, Honda and Suzuki started making 2 strokes again and they come out with a 500?
They are but they aren't gonna be winning races.
@@LolliWANG505 The bikes are more than capable if the rider is. Nevelle Bradshaw is beating 450s on a CR500 in the UK, and Jeremy McGrath has a KX500 for Glen Helen.
@@dr.hugog.hackenbush9443 ok. Go tell tomac to win Supercross or an mx national on a yz250. Let's see what he says.
They can't make 2 strokes because of emissions in Japan. Yamaha to even update their 2 strokes last year had to build and open a plant in Europe
Honda will never build 2 strokes again. They are and always have been against them. They only built 2t to stay competitive. They pushed the hardest to move to 4t in MX and MotoGP. That is the sad truth of the matter and I am not a hater. Own an 03 Honda CR250. People need to realize this and support the company’s that make and more importantly develop 2t like KTM, Husky, Beta, etc. It’s great that Yamaha are still making them, but they have done little to no dev on theirs.
Got damn! Cant get much better than this! AMA and FIM watch and learn. Give them a fair matchup to the 4 strokes and racing will be so much more exciting again. Never forget the 80-90s and the early 2000s!
FOUR STROKES KILLED MOTO
Emx classes is already an op class
Yeah but 4 smokers blow out my burms so bad I lose momentum, 4 bangers can accelerate right off the bat better than 2 smokers in my opinion. Depending on the track, 2 smokers could fair well but over all 4 bangers win. 4 strokers are boring I reckon though. 2 smokers rule
@@buttfarmfilms3620 4stroke saved Moto. A slow rider got faster because of the softer power delivery and bottom end power.
2stroke is a mindset and it's not bad. (Ride 2stroke 125 myself) And i am way faster on a 250f. It's about the smile you get. I tried my friends 250 2stroke and a 450 4stroke and the 450 made me smile. the 2stroke just made me shit my pants and praying not to die
@@ketillundsrensen6167 Because it require less skills. Is moto about being comfy, does it conflate? I believe the true test at the highest level came from the guys pushing these machines to the edge, 4 strokes made people with less skills to go faster, fun and good in its own way. But in the end two strokes were the pinnacle of the sport, no four stroke did not save the sport. It made more expensive and harder for the weekend warrior to keep racing.
Major tuners such as Mitch Payton made this statement way back in the early 2000s, Dave Osterman (personal discussion) said the same to a top guy at Yamaha once the switch were imminent, you guys are killing the sport.
Look now, preferncial based on what you prefer to ride is fine we have our own subjective opinions, but the cost for the average joe and for people who want to race / team fundings you name it increased by crazy amount with the 4, so there is more to it than just skills and engine preferncials.
the gold wheels are sweet on that Yamaha!
yeah the gold rims really pop 😀
@@mikeoconnell9019 The black rims really slop
Nice touches on the YZ motor, both with and without the carbon
Ping, you really need to try my TMR YZ315 stroker. I've had KTM 300SX, and even YZ300. The stroker is where it's at. Super smooth everywhere with massive over-rev! With the A-kit, it's a 450 killer for sure.
Tyler, how many hours do you have on it already? Do you think reliability was sacrificed?
@@jaysmokey I have some videos on my YT channel minus the A kit
@@matthewbutler4650 Tom Morgan has a very good reputation and he told me same if not better then stock
If Tom built it, it flies
@@Fvission thank you man! I actually left him a vm today, hopefully he calls back soon. I was going to do a 325 kit on my yz250 for the desert/dunes... But if I can get a quick enough turn around time, I may have Tom do a 315 stroker.
looking foward to a part 2, i would like to see some dyno runs as well.
55-56 rwhp
@@poullinneberg1876 whats the torque curve look like poul
I don't recal but it feels like a yz 250 just with 20-21% more power and torque from bottom to top
Keep in mind the yzf450 is 51rwhp on the same dyno
PS. It rips
@@EarthSurferUSA dynos dondnt show the same number but on the same dyno the same day yzf 450 51rwhp yz300 55rwhp so 4 Horsens more than the 450(2021 yzf450)
Ping, your style is aging like a fine wine buddy. ✊🏻. Just finished listening your talk with Huff daddy. Loved hearing the fire/police stories. I hope we get some video if you can drag him out to do some laps.
Hoping to get those same rims on my 01 rm250. Gold ones are sick!
They sure are truly works of art these modern machines with insanely plush suspension 😮
I'm not sure if this was used, but the KTM kit comes with a new CDI which when not used is said to make a wild bike. Also, don't forget a KREFT 2.0 Powerdial can easily be added as well as spring changes that can change power valve behavior.
I rode my uncle's KTM 300 it is absolutely insane. You better know how to ride if you think your going to blast the throttle. It will definitely hurt you bad.
Awesome vid guy's 🔥👍
An awesome video. I have a ktm250sx and have been thinking about slapping that 300 kit in it. Good info.
I’m curious what spring was being run in the ktm. Sounds like a red spring. Swap in a green and try it. If it’s too dull go yellow. I think the sx come standard with the red installed.
Nice. How did these 2 bikes compare before the modifications? Glad 2 strokes are still around.
I’ve got the SXS CDI in my 2015 300EXC, it certainly transforms the bike... great hit off the bottom for the desert, welcome extra hit but give it a handful at the MX track like you do in the dunes and you’ll end up in the ICU. 😄 Lectron makes it so crisp every twist, it’s great.
Had the 300cc yam with raised exhaust port very nice Best ever🔥🚀 passe 450 All day
The yz looks so good both bikes look amazing 👍
I really love my 22 yz250 it’s actually really helping me with my riding style 😄🔥 I got back on my 21 yz250f and I was actually riding faster then before 🔥😮💨 love the yz250 it’s a good tool. If you ever get a chance to get a 22 yz250 it would be the best feeling you will feel and it’s sure make riding a 2stroke fun again 👍🔥🙂
Cool video, the Dyno charts would have been cool to include. I totally get the lean lectron feel ran a 40mm on a ported cr500 two decades ago, the idle always seemed a touch lean, and roll on sounded lean but always ran great, I call it the bike felt “nervous” seem lean and sketch, but wasn’t, like you wanted to turn the air screw in a half turn to a turn but you can’t. I still run lectrons on my drag quad, and have a 44mm lectron tucked away for a cr500 project, so I don’t hate them
I run big bore trx250r’s and there is a lot available for them, the big bores 2ts aren’t dead, and my god big bore banshe’s are healthy indeed
What metering rod and power jet adjustment was made to the lectron on the yz300?
/Andreas
the modern day rider really wants an easy to ride bike ,you fellas are so damm spoilt compared to when our generation were racing open class two strokes early 80s ,we were happy just to hang on and finish
That yz looks amazing
They should allow 300cc 2 strokes in the 450 class and 150 for the 250 classes
Great job on video 👍
I dig the simplicity and spot on crispiness of the lectron, but maybe try a TPS carb with programmable cdi and play with the ignition timing for more bottom/top smoother delivery. That KTM looked fast as fk with factory Ping on it 👊🏻
Stock carb ripped for me with the vforce3 theres just not mutch jetting to do 178 and go
Keep on 2-stroken..nice job!!
I’ve messed around with ktm 300’s and it sounds like the aggressive ignition of the SX could be a prime contributing factor to its power character.
We want to see part 2 !
Awesome stuff! I've always thought my 250sx hit too hard and had a feeling the 300 kit would intensify that. On my 250, I run a thicker base gasket (.5 or .75) and a single ring piston (Wiseco Racer Elite) and that makes it perfect. Actually, I prefer the .4 base gasket with the single ring poison and the .5 on the double ring piston. (The only problem with the single ring is the ring needs to be changed every 7 hours.)
The single ring piston makes the transition from the bottom to mid very smooth. I bet you could drop one in along with a thick base gasket and it would be a lot better. (Just guessing that the 300 would feel good with the .75 gasket.) Wonder if the standard airbox without the vents would do justice?
I did try a flywheel weight and hated it as I could no longer pass people.
Your the only guy ive ever heard that choked out a 250
It would be cool to do this same comparison with the BRC 500 kit. BRC already has the KTM kit and the new yzm500 kit should be out in the next month or two.
Agreed. Those are super legitimate 500cc bikes, not an older 500 engine dropped into a new chassis that will vibrate your brains out.
@@phild9813 You know nothing of vibration! **laughs in YZ490**
😂😂😂 nice. Touché.
Why do both pips look flattened where the fmf logo is? I've owned a ktm 250/300sx and the pure never looked like that
Those LECTRONS are a no brainer too! i got a pretty sweet 1998 YZ 250 that looks alot like that one and the older gen motor is actually pretty good. My 15 year old is competitive on it. curious if theres a 300 kit for my year? doubt it tho. nice work on these bikes guys..
All I hear is massive increase in happiness with lectron carbs 😮🎉🙏🤘⚡
Things sound dialled 👌
Awesome thanks brother great 2 smokers 🏁 CR 500 2001 Built🤠 owner 🏁
Gotta adjust the power valve on the KTM to get the power to hit later and be softer off the bottom. Maybe even switch to the yellow spring. Might get the character you want from the KTM that you liked in the Yamaha
Do you really think they haven’t tried that .... did you not listen to what they said
Oh yeah! Lookout 2022 Corduroy Enduro. YZ 300 and a Rekluse. Try and stop me! By the way,orange is just a colour, blue is a state of mind! Did I miss something? Is there a link to the Yamaha 300 big bore kit?
How do they run with out the Twisted treatment?
Do KTM have stock exhaust chamber these days, that’s what I’d try to tame it maybe....
Small bores for the win
I wish someone would do a full on mod yz 300.i know it would be expensive but would really love to see how much power they can produce.make a longer stroke smaller bore square motor.a ski Doo pro stock 800 snowmobile is making about 240 h.p that's 80 per cyl
It's been done
I like the chromoly steel frame and chassis and its got a good shock, but the SSS fork is so damn good...and any 300 2 stroke or 450 4stroke is going to have more than enough power. Just pick what's more comfortable and easier to ride so you can spin laps at speed for longer... having a predictable bike makes riding a lot more fun and decreases risk.
I'm really excited about the new TPI SX300. I'm gonna get it and get some KYB internals to get rid of the air fork and have the interals and externals coated. Along with the shock revalved and sprung, if not get a B-Kit shock for it. Pretty sure it's the same stuff in Yamaha's SSS forks that slips right in, it felt near identical when i got it for my last KTM.
Time for the AMA to bump up the displacement based on HP but we know they’ll have wayyy too many bogus excuses to keep the green dollar ceiling on privateers racing as the 4 strokes are way too expensive to maintain. I’ve gone back to 2 strokes again
I have a 2019 300 tpi how can I get the filter cover side plastic with the holes in it
Twisted development makes top notch stuff. My KTM runs perfectly thanks to Jamie and company.
Great review.
If I buy a 2 stroke, its going to TD for sure.
Anyone hear what the yz dyno numbers? I heard 55-56 for the ktm but I kept waiting to hear what the yz numbers are?
Now dont get me wrong I am just picking at you. I would like to see a comparison of a stock KTM or Yamaha 2021ish to a 1976 Kawasaki KX250. I am old as dirt but I would love to ride any of these late model bikes [2 strokes]. Thanks for the video.
Can we have build sheets for these.
Which kit big bore kit, pipe, cdi etc.
Beautiful bikes.
On the KTM, if you drop a couple teeth in the rear sprocket. Will that help the power coming out of turns and help set up with jumps?
I am asking because my son got a 2017 yz250f and it takes off like that. Someone said to drop the sprocket in rear one or two teeth will mellow it out without loosing power, We don’t have enough money to buy up dated bikes, so trying to make this work for him.
I have a 2020 YZ 250, and I went up one tooth on the countershaft sprocket (from stock 14 to 15 tooth). It is easier and cheaper to change than the rear sprocket. It made a big difference. The bike is a little easier to ride. I also added the GYTR heavy flywheel. These two mods tame down the power delivery a little and let the rear tire bite for more traction. It slows down the engine, but makes the bike faster. It is easy to do and doesn't cost a fortune.
What sort of hp/rwhp and torque numbers are these two beauties putting out? And how much they weigh?
He just said 56 rear wheel horsepower, so you already know it's gonna have 30+ ft-lbs of torque, at least! ;) These things are straight ballers!!! Love my new TM Racing EN300ES 2 stroke - about the same HP numbers from all of the aftermarket I've bought for the engine...now just saving for Ohlins from Coppersmith, and will purchase by February!!! That BRC YZM500 Engine is a beast as well!!!!
@@jonathondavis170 56rwhp, insane! that's on par with pro level 450's yeah? imagine a 450 2t. rip your arms offf power.
That KTM looks so good.
yz 300cc vs yz450f lap times with Ping would be epic!
Where’s the SC2 smart carb? Stock carb or a 39.5 pwk would probably give a higher peak hp number since the Lectron has a smaller diameter. Sweet bikes. I’m trying to figure out best size to bore my yz250. Sounds like 285 is best for keeping that topend over rev.
Well I guess I can follow this up. After speaking with two engine builders I decided to buy a new cylinder and have it ported and keep it 250 cc.
I have a 07 250sx I put a 300cc top-end kit on it,it gave it a little more power but nothing mind blowing lol
I’ve noticed with the dirt bikes for some reason that color gold although I don’t like wearing gold colors it looks awesome on dirt bikes
I can't find which 300 KTM kit I have, I searched part numbers and KTM doesn't say what is what.
i like FMFs new pipe how the logo is flat. just looks more modern
That ktm sure is a looker ❤
Just tried getting a Yamaha 250 here in Michigan, no luck.
That YZ 🤤
Have these guys (or can these guys) make a 350 2t?
Yes 365cc Eddie Sanders
The KTM might need a flywheel weight
Ya all that ktm needs is a flywheel weight !
Yeah, my old 300exc had a savage bottom end that could have used a little extra flywheel.
The reason the yz feels lean with a lectron is because the TPS is obsolete & without it the bike never retards or advances the timing. It puts the CDI into a 2d map instead of a 3d map. I’d go with smart carb over lectron for this reason.
Those bikes are minty
I just rebuilt my 05 yz and its soo fast. I call it Godzilla 🐲
That yz😍😍
lectron carb was the best money i spent on my bike it runs fantastic
Awesomeness
Need to find a European pipe called DOMA for the YZ ..these euro pipe expansion Chambers are half as round again as the pro circuit or FMF equivalent ... Tony Hatton and Brendan Radford used to do all the two-stroke CDR development here in Australia they put me onto these pipes they are the real deal
Or HGS,even better
Need to look at a 350 or 400 for open class
If you used the Stic you'd get all the overrev you'd ever want
Yer need the follow-up
Why did you not add a TM 300 shot out to the comparison
It’s produced right from the factory for thousands less than you spent on these bikes.
Yeah and also the Beta 300Rx
I can only assume but the TM-300 mx is a top end only engine.
They are awesome! I own a TM Racing EN300ES 2t and have about every engine upgrade part off of their TM Racing USA Webshop! lolMy bike is making every bit of 55-56HP to the wheel, just like these bikes! But it has a VHM Cylinder Head with MX 28ml insert, billet reed extender to the V Force 3 Reed system for added bottom-end, Changed out the HGS pipes that come stock for Pro Circuit Platinum expansion chamber and silencer, port & polish, upgraded mapping/CDI etc. Ready to get these Ohlins put on within a couple months!! Love 300s since they are light and agile! The GPR Triple-clamps & GPR 5 Steering Stabilizers are great additions to the bike chassis as well!!! This is my favorite bike ever, and I LOVED my 2020 Husqvarna and 2016 Yamaha before owning this beautiful hand-crafted bike! Only saved for 3.5 years! hahaha
@@jeff40 Actually, you'd be surprised to find out that from the factory, TM's are set up for more bottom-end power and enjoy being short-shifted. The electronic synchro system power-valve is the smoothest I've ever felt. It is confidence inspiring, and ergos feel like you are getting into an old, broken-in pair of slippers - contact patch with your legs are big, and the bike's stability and agility are equal. 👌 Beautiful machines! I'm a TM Racing fan for life now, and they have TWO forms of 2 stroke fuel injection, that are way better than the 2020 Husqvarna TPI I owned (this was when I tried another owner's bike because my EN300ES is the carb 5-spd version).
That's the last point I'll make - you can literally order the bike with whatever you want from the factory in Italy!!!
KTM also sells a 300 XC top end kit as well. I wonder if swapping around either the "OFF-ROAD" cylinder with the SX CDI or vise-versa, the SX cylinder with the "OFF-ROAD" ignition would "HELP/HINDER/?????" as far as altering that EYE WATERING hit that the KTM has on top, especially when compared to the TRACTOR BOTTOM END that the YZ's have. Those two unit are as different as NIGHT & DAY as far as rideability off the very bottom. Blu rips your arms off & orange blows your eyes out.
I use 3rd gear starts (on my old 250 SX) against the 450 in the vet group that I used to race with & the right amount of clutch on a concrete pad & BOOM, those lawn mowers make the 2nd to 3rd up shift while you are going into 4th and saying by-by!!!
Hands up if you are old enough to remember the Ohlins/Noleen YZ360 kit!
Do long-time fans of the sport count?
KTM😍
I hate that we can't really get these in Germany... :(
Cool
How about running aviation gas at the pump? 100 octane minimum no ethanol buy it at the airport and way cheaper than race gas. 😉 hp numbers?
Anyone else notice that since there wasn't much good to say about the KTM, they kept referring to it as "This one" , "That one" or "This thing". But whenever referring to the blue bike, it was "The Yamaha"...hmmmm?...
Always been a fan of Yamaha. In Hannah's words "it was good enough to win", but that Katoom sure is eye-catching.
Bro put a Flywheel weight on the ktm...10oz I did yellow spring Map Swith Best Combination 👌 👍🏽
I Ride a 17 Ktm300sx N10ZE Conevalve built to the gills.....SLAM this Hammah in the trails here on Kauai.......
Ping looks like he ate ping.
testing a YZ300 with an Athena ? Athena stopped making this years ago. They are testing bikes that have porting that is unknow and it makes a difference, Eric Gorr has 3 standard options but can tailor the porting, I have a YZ300 kit for mx and one for SX. Neither are the standard options. There's a big difference between the 2 and both are a handfull. I've long believed that this motor should be stroked and use milder porting to make it more like a four stroke in power delivery. On a slick muddy track its just too much.....As far as this test, either one can be modified to what ever they want .....I'd love to see one with a much heavier flyweight....maybe as much as 2 pounds.....
500 2 Stroke Electric Start EFI Bring It!!!!!
Always interesting to hear what 4 stroke guys say when they ride a real motocross bike..as someone that grew up on 500 2strokes, (I laugh when I hear someone say 450's have got more guts..my 500 husky has got 67hp at the sprocket Stock..does that make them faster? Hardly Anyone can go fast on a modern 4stroke..just way easier to ride, pretty much all you guys today have no idea what a 2stroke is.
Cool story grandpa 🤓
@@connorallen5150 Actually your comment made me laugh but I reckon my 04' KX125 is way way more fun to ride than the 4 banger 2 fiddies. It's like, one is a dirty dance with a lascivious drunk blondie hottie babe whilst the other is realizing through your drunken haze that you are in a gay bar.
Did he say 55 hp?
Most fast guys don’t like out of square engines.
Lean is MEAN 🐂
My KTM 300 runs like an electric motor and will say goodbye to 450s.
Just so you know what’s going on. The internet wire was cut. The line locators couldn’t get in there due to locked gate. Lady is upset because she has meetings in the morning. She says she may loose her license. Now can’t she just use the hotspot on the phone?
I would love that yammy ❤
Little obsessive with the paint pen on the bolts.
yz 4 lyfe
Why didn't you guys just use an actual KTM 300SX? I get they are essentially the same thing, but still odd choice I thought