Why I Bought a Laguna Table Saw over SawStop!
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- Опубліковано 1 лип 2024
- Laguna Tools Link: bit.ly/2NSNRzw
Full Review (NEW): • Really wish this ONE t...
Yes, you read that right, a UA-camr who makes things in his garage bought something OTHER than a SawStop. I bought a Laguna Fusion F2 table saw and I think it is the most compelling cases out there as a suitable SawStop alternative. This is not a table saw review - simply my thought process on why I ultimately chose to invest in a Laguna tool versus a SawStop.
I will start by saying I have nothing against SawStop. In fact, I think they are absolutely phenomenal tools. I was very close to buying one but I couldn't help but think there has got to be another option out there, especially for less money.
I did a lot of research and came to the conclusion that Laguna was the best alternative. In this video I give some very high level reasons why I chose Laguna over a SawStop.
Full Disclosure: I have entered an agreement (i.e. partnership) with Laguna but there are no conditions on what I can say or not say. Laguna is genuinely interested in my opinion and by god, I'm going to give it to them.
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When I bought my SawStop almost 10 years ago, I did a simple calculation - I knew I was going to use this for at least the next 20 years probably no less than every other weekend. The $1,500 lift for the safety capabilities comes out to $75 a year in finger insurance. I've never regretted the decision and now with my stepson using the saw I am as confident as ever that I made the right decision. He made a poor woodworking decision and touched the side of the blade while trying to cut some small pieces. SawStop did its thing and all he had to replace was his underwear (scared the crap out of him!). I got to use that as a teaching moment on the use of the various guides and push blocks (Microjig GRRRipper) that I have for those types of cuts. I didn't have to go to the emergency room and that made it all worth it.
Hopefully he won't have an accident and regret not to buy the Sawstop, I had a near experience and realized that there is no price on loosing the fingers so I bought the Sawstop it already made the money to pay itself..
Do you have the same finger protection on your band saw, planer, jointer etc? Hen my chainsaw comes with the same auto safety feature I’ll spend up for the same stop.
They should make something like that for those tools as well, would get them asap. When your hands are your tools to make a living, I will protect them anyway I can.
Don't leave the house without your face diaper.
There is a .01% chance YOU WILL DIE !
Anyone else sick of these dumb testimonials for dumb people ?
Everyone has the right to make their own decisions, but I wholeheartedly agree with your way of thinking, and applaud your choice!
16 years ago I went through the same calculation in my head. I’m an engineer too that balances risk all the time. A few weeks ago, I had a kickback from a 1/4” ply piece. Thank goodness my hands were not near the blade. But if they were, I could have been bad because it threw my hands forward. Two days later, I ordered a Sawstop. Safety is priority Number 1. I consider myself an extremely safe woodworker with thousands of hours of experience. Yet all it takes is one mistake and your life is changed for the worse. It’s the “it will never happen to me” mentality that gets you hurt.
So your experience is telling you that you're now MORE likely to have another accident?
Sounds rather like your acting on your scare, rather than doing a risk calculation.
With that said. Of course, the safety of you and your loved ones should be prio one.
@@Croziz something is seriously wrong with you.
if safety is priority number one then don´t operate any saw ever again, don´t drive a car in fact don´t ever even step onto a road. period.
I guess we have all seen the Thintz12 video. That astonished me when I first saw it all those years ago. I've used and set up a lot of says since then, and have seen scary things like the guy at my Menz Shed who insisted it was OK to push a misshaped log through a big cabinet saw. According to Stumpy Nubs, it will soon be compulsory for saws sold in the USA to have SawStop brakes fitted. I live in NZ and the cheapest Sawstop here is NZ$7899! I've used and loved a DeWalt jobsite saw for years, but I feel like treating myself. The Laguna F2 NZ$3949 which is half the cost of the SawStop, so I am going with the Laguna.
ua-cam.com/video/u7sRrC2Jpp4/v-deo.htmlsi=ObghK6wBSf_69fyg&t=152
I was literally having this same discussion in my head for the last three months! I’ve finally settled on the F2 as well, but you really helped me nail down my decision! Thanks dude!
I have been doing some woodbutchering for several years and I am very proud to say that I can still tell my grandkids to "pull my finger".
Are you saying 9 down, one to go?
@@steveh8724 LOL. As long as I have a finger to pull I'm still golden.
One month ago I, for some unknown reason, failed to use a push stick. When the piece kicked back my hand fell into the blade and my index finger got caught by the blade. I live alone and had to drive myself to the ER while bleeding profusely. It's a blessing I didn't lose the finger. So to me this is very much a reality and the cost of a SawStop is worth every penny. I can't even imagine what would have happened if I hadn't lowered the blade from 2" to 1/4" and the thought of it happening again, and not being so lucky, is terrifying. My SawStop should be here by the end of the month
What, nearly losing one little index finger made you decide to dump your old saw and waste thousands and thousands on a Sawstop? For any good woodworker, silly safety features on a table saw that costs extra are just not worth it, until they are. Seriously, glad to hear that you didn't lose your finger and didn't give up on woodworking.
Living alone concerns me, and I'm quite a few miles from the hospital, but I surely can't afford a Saw Stop.
@@elizabetholiviaclark I know what you mean about the cost. I'm blessed that my mom and dad were able to pitch in to cover cost. And when I got the hospital bill I realized the cost of the saw was actually less!
@@brandytabor1147 I have no doubt that the saw was less than the ER bill, and I'm glad you have it now.
Always use a push stick on cuts less than 8 inches
You posted this the day I ordered my F2. This pretty much echoes my thought process as well.
I almost went with a Fusion a couple years ago, but my wife vetoed my choice and said that the cost difference was pretty cheap insurance. In a world without SawStop, I would own the Fusion, but I live in a world where I can have safety as well as great quality.
Great for you. However not everybody is in your world. If you can afford it great!
Your wife makes decisions for you? yikes.
I use these at work all the time and they're both very good drills. ua-cam.com/users/postUgkxW1vOBRCMrgTCDEijzpVzDWsgI-Jm2iQv I've been watching Amazon and stores waiting for them to dip a little lower in price and when they did it was a no brainer.The 1.5 amp 20 volt batteries are a real step up if you were using 18 volt previously. They should handle all your day to day needs. But if you do need more power know that not only do the 3, 4, and 5 amps last longer but they give you a noticeable boost in whatever you're doing. For home use however, you'd be hard pressed to find anymore need for power than this.These guns are also fairly durable as I know they've been dropped more than their fair share... that is if an accident happens. Dewalt also offers iirc a 1 year warranty if it does break as well, though I've never went through the process.
Great video Travis, straight forward and well done as always. I love the line, "and probably your shorts" ........ classic!
I still am using my Lady Kenmore table saw that's 30 plus years old , Happy New Table Saw To You ! Enjoy
I recently bought a Fusion Three. I have used it only for a short time and I LOVE it. The dust collection is amazing. I just built a small cabinet for my wife's scrapbook punches. The amount of dust when hooked up to my shop dust collector was surprising. I had very little dust if any in my shop. I bought a blade just for plywood and the saw cuts like butter. I am so happy to have bought the Laguna. I could not have afforded the same saw in the Sawstop.
One of the factors that led me to buy Saw Stop a few months ago, was I love teaching friends and now grandkids a little woodworking. If it was only me I would have saved the money, but I would not been able to live with myself if I saw one of them get hurt. Excellent presentation, great to have these discussions.
just use the blade guard, especially when you're teaching kids
Your use case of people who are total novices in woodworking and tool use is a compelling argument for Saw Stop for safety and liability, but the same argument may not apply to a solo user and or people with minimal training.
This is a great discussion... but I think that the idea that you “have to have a SawStop to be a serious woodworker” is flawed. SawStop provides a great degree of protection from an inadvertent injury. Being someone who works in a field where I get to see those injuries, I have to agree with your detractors... the incidence is low. NOt that low, but low. But the cost is HIGH. VERY HIGH. So the risk benefit ratio is still favorable to SawStop... But, you can use a good table saw safely, and go your entire life without, admittedly, doing anything stupid. The vast majority of table saw injuries I have seen or researched were the result of doing something that the victim admitted after the fact, they should not have been doing... so. Use a splitter, use the blade guard, use a push stick, don’t put your hand within 10 inches of the blade, and beware your set up... your incident of putting your hand in the blade is now very, very, very low.
I have a patient who fell onto their saw... Blade all the way up, no guard, no fence in the way, saw on, blade running, fell backwards onto the saw table, not their back. It was profoundly, remarkably, unfashionably stupid. I feel very confident he would have died, if it had not been a SawStop.
I own a SawStop... I love the Laguna Saw. I own a SawStop because I did something stupid and walked away with only messy shorts and a cold sweat... I stopped using my saw (a contractor saw) until I could buy as SawStop... Because I’m too stupid to be trusted not to do something stupid... That’s the honest truth. We are all at risk of doing something foolish in a moment of fatigue, hurry, or just plane, not thinking.
You own a beautiful saw. I am jealous that you trust yourself enough not to do something foolish. I, as my wife likes to point out, am a fool. Like most of humanity.
Literally nobody has ever said to be a serious woodworker you need a SS.
I like how you capitalised SawStop(tm) as per the company design sheet every time you used it
@@kblock1738 Just like how he capitalized Laguna? Must be a shill for both!
@@atomictyler Laguna is a place champ, it'll default to being capitalised in most dictionaries.
@@kblock1738 ahh yes. that's it laguna laguna laguna. look at all those auto-caps.
Probably my favorite video you've made so far mostly because you tell it like it is AND you do fantastic work. As for me, I can't afford a lot of high dollar tools and I get by using what I have had for several years. I don't care much for over priced tools just because someone says I should be using newer tools. I do like your detailed review of the Laguna table. Thanks for the info.
I’ve been waiting on a Labuan table saw review for SO long. Much appreciated, man!
I imagine you're still waiting. This was a review for the Laguna....
Ok, I've no idea why I got this channel recommendation UNTIL NOW! I'm an amateur woodworker but this video is amazing, in terms of content and quality, not to mention humor, immediate sub.
Looking forward to your comprehensive review on the table saw!
I literally spit my coffee out when you said you'd have to change the blade, brake and your shorts...well done. I now have a new table saw to add to my want list!
Literally?! ..you have a sense of humor made for laugh track sitcoms.
I bought a SawStop. Because that’s what I wanted. I had seen one of these when they first came out. (Years ago). And always wanted one. And I now happily have one. Skill is what makes a serious woodworker, not his tools, but they do help.... good video!!
I also bought a SawStop. Also because it's what I wanted. I'm a retired ER doctor who has attached more fingers than I care to count, fortunately none of them mine, and I'd like to keep it that way. That said, the most common cause of severe table saw injury isn't blade contact, but kickback, and SawStops do not prevent that. I'm happy with my choice, but if I had it to do over again, for roughly the same cost I'd get a slider such as the Hammer K3.
I just pulled the trigger on a Languna F2 as well back in September(2020). Its been a huge game changer for my building! Quiet as can be, cuts like butter (with the proper blade, I use a 60 tooth CMT), and quite affordable. I love sawstops, they look and perform amazing. But I just can't bring myself to shell out that kind of cash when (arguably) better options are readily available. Good review man, loving the videos!
There is no better option than keeping your fingers
@@lavillastrangiato7910 nothing beats safety, common sense , and respect for the tools you are using. I agree though that for some ( scattered brain people, ADD, people, always tired, etc ) the Sawstop is the perfect table saw. I have ADD and I have to super concentrate on what I’m doing every time I do woodworking because I know my lack of concentration. I always pray before woodworking. I have been building furniture for the last seven years. God bless
As a hobby woodworker who just began this journey less than 5 years ago, I decided to buy a SawStop based on my abilities at the time. Now, if I had maybe taken woodshop in school, I may have made the same one you did. All in all, I am happy with my decision, and I'm happy you made a move to start filling in your tools you gave up when you moved.
Thanks, my friend. Felix
I'm just getting started as a hobby woodworker. I looked at this Laguna saw; but, decided the safety feature in the Sawstop was worth the added cost hands down (no pun). When did I come to that decision you ask? Well, it was when I went to the ER after sending a hatchet into my finger while making kindling. No serious injury fortunately; but, I realized immediately that I make mistakes, I'm not experienced in that way. I have no formal wood working training. So, after paying $1900 for three stitches (w/insurance) I decided, even if I didn't lose my finger, hand or get a severe laceration to my wrist, just nicking a finger would cost me another $2000. I might as well pay it to Sawstop as a life long insurance plan. It will pay for its self the first mistake I make. (Not that I plan on making any!)
@@roguea987 If you read a book over how to use a table saw properly, you could have taken the cheaper one because then the safety feature is obsolete.
@@bowlchamps37 not sure, why you wouldn't think I'd read about safety. But, you do you, I'll just playing it safe then sorry.
I too had my choices between this exact saw and a sawstop. I ultimately chose the sawstop for two reasons: 1.) I want to teach my sons woodworking and momma said get the sawstop because she wanted to reduce their risk (she’s the boss)
2.) I am an emergency room NP and it would be very difficult to do my job missing fingers. (With that though, the point of a sawstop is to never set it off)
That being said I agree with everything you said and definitely weighed both options. I was so close to choosing the fusion2 that I had it ordered. Of all the little info out there on the saw, I heard/read good things. Love your channel been with you since 500 subscribers!
Totally agree with this. I want our family to enjoy woodworking. My daughter in law is scared to death of the table saw. I do not regret my decision in any way. BUT everyone needs to make their decision and live with it. I have owned several table saws and for safety I believe it is even more important to get the most HP. 220 if at all is possible. I purchased the 3HP 220 and am VERY glad I did. Very dangerous cutting on an under powered saw no matter what brand. IMHO.
So far I count 3 medical types posting here. All 3 went with the SawStop. Is it financial? Maybe partly. But mostly it's the added safety in what is otherwise a really nice saw. When you've seen what can happen, and hear how it happens, you gain an extra measure of respect for what can go wrong--even to those who are experienced, knowledgeable, and *always* careful.
If you use a table saw properly (which I would hope you do if you instruct your sons how to use one), then the safety feature is obsolete. So I guess you just think you know how to use a table saw, but you really don´t.
@@steveh8724 There is basically zero chance you cut yourself if you are experienced, knowledgeable, and always careful. You can only harm yourself if you are stupid or think you know how to use one.
@@bowlchamps37 trying to determine if your inflection though your comment didn’t come out right or if you are just looking to be an asshat. Either way have a good day. Love my saw and the decision to get it.
After 15 years with my Bosch Jobsite saw with vertical rise stand I'm finally ready for the next level. Do diligence for a tool in this price catagory meant a LOT of Study of the alternatives. Boy was I sold on Jet! loved Powermatic but not the price. Then the Laguna F2 showed up. Of course I studied the Sawstops. The cheapest Sawstop, the "Contractor model" was priced about the same as the Laguna F2. So, I went to actually touch & feel at Rockler & Woodworkers Supply as well as Woodcraft. Couldn't find a Fusion 2 here in Phoenix. But I did try out the only Sawstop I thought I could afford, the contractor model. My old Bosch was really pretty good at what counts, A stable straight and accurate fence. I have cut many thin strips with it and a lot of hardwood. The Bosch handled everything really well for its small stature. I did find several Sawstops. I did not like the fence at all. A stable fence, and a blade, alligned well, are THE really important features. DYI on this last requirement seemed to be avereage for most of the other machines. The fence on the Sawstop contractor saw was inferior to my old Bosch. Setting it to the desired location seemed to be very IFFY. Just exactly what I don't need. The fence on my brand new Laguna F2 is the very best on the market, if you ask me. The factory setup on the Trunion, motor and blade is just great. Better than I could have done myself. The wheels are on! Another $100 DYI job I didn't need, and yes it passes the nickle test as well. Waiting to see if I will do a zero clearance, thin kerf chopmaster blade which I had on my Bosch.
We are in the exact same boat. I too had the same Bosch and now looking at Laguna. Only I am leaning towards the F1. Space is my issue. Can I ask why you picked the F2 over the 1 ?
I bought this exact same saw over Labor Day weekend 2020 (on sale too) and I absolutely love it so far. It’s super accurate and it was easy to set up. I was thrilled to see that you bought the same one.
i have a Delta like the you had, had it 7 yrs, still works great, but went for the SS which did save my thumb, the Delta now has a big crosscut sled on it. I have to say the Laguna looks like a really well built saw.
I have been weighing the Sawstop vs Laguna pros and cons, and have decided to buy a Laguna F2. The safety feature of Sawstop is very compelling, but it’s simply too expensive for me given my high degree of cautiousness and the fact that I’m the only one using the saw. The Laguna is a far better value for me. Thanks for your video!
Thanks for the video. After all my research, your video was the tipping point.
My Fusion F2 was delivered this morning. Setting up tomorrow.
Very helpful review/comparison. Thank you for the clear and concise vid!
Awsome review! Can’t wait till the full review after you used it for a while
I wish anyone who might buy a Laguna product all of the luck in the world. You're gonna need it. The product that they make is solid. I have the first version of the Fusion and it's been a good tool. What really sucks is their customer service (read that DIS-Service). They greet you with an unpleasant receptionist who screens you like you wanted to rob them. Then 1-2 days later they email you to detail why you called. If they actually do call you back, their caller id is private (looks like another scam??), then they email that you don't answer the phone. Leaving a message is grounds for employee discipline. I could go on, but I'll leave it at that. LAGUNA NEVER AGAIN. Thanks for allowing the rant.
I was so stoked to see this video pop up. I am dreaming of getting a cabinet saw, and Laguna and Harvey are top of my list. I get to use a 3hp sawstop at work and it truly is an awesome saw, but I just can’t pony up for my garage shop. “Keep your fingers away from the spinny bits” is still the best safety feature I have.
Very much looking forward to your eventual review of this saw. Your past reviews are honest and straightforward, and I do respect your opinion and your approach to brand partnerships.
I really appreciate the honesty of your video. I was taught not to fear the machine but to respect it.
I've bought two older Delta Unisaws and outfitted pretty much my whole shop with vintage Delta tools with about the same price of a Sawstop. That said, I will still love to get a Sawstop some day.
I’ve got a Powermatic...and that’s all I’ll ever have or need.
Congrats on the new saw. Just went through this process myself but went with the Grizzly 3hp 1023. Had the same thoughts about the Sawstop and at the end of the day, I knew I wanted 3HP 220v and for the price Sawstop was out. Happy building
1023 in my shop too. Love it and the Incra TSLS-32 fence system
Great video. You hit all the points I came to when I also chose the F2 a year ago. The saw has been great but that's me comparing to Dewalt contractor saw. Worlds of difference.
Great input so far on the new Laguna saw. Most appreciated.
Definitely in the market to upgrade the dewalt contractor table saw. Can’t wait to see the full review and hopefully purchase the F2 after watching. Thanks for researching and finding a great value!
I have a fusion 2 and love it. Accuracy, smoothness, quietness are all great. Dust collection is quite good as well. Upgraded it to the optional 52in rails as well ! Will probably add in a folding out feed table somehow in the future but still love the saw. Just wish Australian prices weren’t so much more. You guys get the F2 for $1300 I think, over in aus I paid $2600 including that rail extensions. Still worth it tho. And like video, I was choosing between Laguna and Sawstop.
I agree with the pricing, Australia gets the raw deal with the cost of machinery and software. I am getting rid of my Triton and considering between the Laguna and Sawstop.
Present price for a Fusion 2 on the US Laguna site is $1799 ( about AU $2,520. ). I don't know if there's any sales taxes etc. on top of that. In the UK the Fusion 2 is priced at £2,599 inc 20% VAT! The 52" extensions are another £249 inc VAT on top.Their US site doesn't list the 52" rail extensions, but they list Fusion 3 52" @ $400 more than the standard Fusion 3.
@@BungalowBill58 I did exactly that! Except, I was lucky enough to have found a near new second hand Laguna. The guys at Carbatec were very helpful in sourcing a few upgrades I required. The new dust hood/blade guard works heaps better when you cover the exposed holes with clear vinyl. I absolutely love my Laguna Fusion Table Saw.
Know anyone in Canberra who wants a Triton?
A great video, you seem more relaxed. I loved this style of asking questions and answering them and how you are honest about your products, the Delta saw. Keep up the content.
Just got my Laguna F2 this week. I ordered it back in March so I am ready to start enjoying it.
That aguna ooks coo . I was ooking for a new tab e saw and I wi robab y consider it after watching your video. I have thought about a SawSto after cutting off my right inky finger, but the cost of the aguna sure is hard to beat!
I see what you did there....
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Gold
@McCubbin Aerial Drone Photography & Video If you hit "L" with your pinky you're doing it wrong.
LOL! That’s awesome!
#wins
...you are the most believable influence I’ve yet encountered on “the tube”...Laguna made the right choice...
I came for information and entertainment, not influencing!
@@ThePhilGrimm ...so don’t be influenced...nobody cares...
LOL, they PAID him to make this BS “review”
It was an OK video. The OP cops to the deal he got. But the "review" wasn't really a review, he didn't even turn the saw on. It was a warmed over infomercial. If you want to learn a little about the Laguna Fusion, mission accomplished. If you were looking for a review based on significant experience with the saw, this wasn't it. Maybe that will come later. If you wanted point0-by-point comparisons with some other saws, nope, none of that.
Also I found it amusing that while describing safe use without SawStop technology, he showed a still image of a user of a contractor's style saw. I wonder if he knows that that saw featured its own blade stop/retract technology?
@@steveh8724 ...everything this guy has presented in the way of tools, procedures, even his finances re utube have been open, unbiased and spot-on...he does it in a way that is entertaining and informational...he qualifies everything and asks you to trust nothing but to make your own judgements...even his saw update promises a future review...if it comes to trust and believability, I choose him...not YOU...
I really appreciate the comparison, options on a piece of equipment this important is really valuable. Thank you for going through in such detail!
Thank you for the video. I have watched some other of your videos and you seem to always give an objective opinion and I appreciate that and your honesty in reviewing products.
Regarding Laguna: They spend thousands of dollars in advertising but their customer service seriously lacks. I used to receive sale notifications for their tools and tried contacting them about purchasing a laser, they never responded. I tried contacting them when I was considering purchasing a band saw, they never responded. Then I read through the forums that if something goes wrong with their products that you own, good luck getting help from their customers service. So, I was glad I never purchased any of their tools. They also offer sales, but then they take the sales savings with their ridiculous shipping charges!
Thank you for your honesty and had I not needed a table saw a few years ago I might be looking at the Laguna. I have a SawStop because my wife bought it for me and I have an 11 yo son that I want to get in the shop more.
I'm eager to see how the Laguna behaves for you. I like the design. I'm still in the process of deciding on a cabinet grade table saw. I'm glad to find someone on UA-cam showing them off.
Be careful with which model of Laguna. I purchased the cabinet saw with the dovetail trunion. Worked great but had issues with dust clogging the height adjustment. Since sold and went to a Canadian General.
This is a great video. I looked hard at the Fusion F2 and I really like the looks and the functionality that is advertised. I ended up with a Sawstop PCS. I really debated because I could have bought the F2 AND a Laguna bandsaw for the cost of the Sawstop. In the end, I bought the Sawstop because of the safety features, general features and the fact that I am fortunate enough that I can afford it. It turns out that it is a very nice saw that is built well. I don't have a UA-cam channel and I pay for my own tools so there was no influence in my decision there. If you aren't worried about the admittedly small risk, buy the Laguna AND a bandsaw. :)
Congrats on the new table saw! I came very close to buying the Laguna Fusion but decided to go with a Delta since I'm still learning, it will be great to see a full review from someone I trust. 👍
I’m an engineer as well. Spent immense amount of time and training on risk ranking as well as risk management. I worked at a large underground coal mine. Pretty much everything will kill you. But you use risk management to bring down the severity of an incident. Ie understand contributing factors. I’ve used a table saw for about 35 of my 41 years on earth. My father and grandfather before me as well. Between the three of us we still have 30 digits. I learned on saw with no riving knife, no splitter, no guard, - just a spinning blade. I was taught to look at the grain, how to position your fingers, now and where and what type of push sticks to use. How to use the fence. What type of blade. Where to stand. I learned on a Unisaw, I now own a Unisaw. Doing that reduces kickback and potentially running your finger into the blade. The other factor is you use a tablesaw for the majority of your wood working projects, do you have a high probability of injury on it solely because your exposure time is higher - hence your more likely to be injured on a table but not because it’s more unsafe. Having a good quality tool, that runs and operates correctly with the correct and sharp blade is most important in my opinion. Second to had is training and experience. I also think sawstops give woodworkers bad habits. Albeit I will say it’s amazing technology and it’s saved many fingers - I can and won’t take that away from it.
I can totally see where your coming from on this one, but I think you're underestimating how hard the amount of training you have is to come by. I am a first generation "woodworker" of about 1 year. I've watched a LOT of youtube videos about table saw safety, but I don't think it's possible to reach your level of operating safety/knowledge in my lifetime.
>I was taught to look at the grain, how to position your fingers, now and where and what type of push sticks to use. How to use the fence. What type of blade. Where to stand.
This is all stuff that has basics that can be "taught" via training video (or youtube), but in reality is a minefield of nuances that you, and other masters of their craft, have achieved subconsciously by watching and being guided by your grandfather and father. I think it is SOOOOO COOOL that you have this level skill, but it is not something I will every have access to.
Having said that: I am currently using a piece of junk jobsite saw that I'm sure is much less safe than this beautiful Laguna.
But you have failed to point out the importance of the concept of "accidents." Surely you realize that the experiences of 3 generations of your family, or my own are just examples of anecdotal information. Sure, one considers that, but to truly judge risk, you have to look across a population. So consider the population of "serious woodworkers", for example those that read and contribute to Fine Woodworking as a possible example. We've all read countless anecdotes of people who were not as "lucky" as you and your elders. Some of them may have done something intrinsically unsafe due to lack of knowledge or experience. But most accounts I recall are from people who, right up until the moment they were injured, had the same "experience" to report as you do. Careful, no accidents, come from a family of careful accident free woodworkers. And then, in an instant, their lives were changed--forever. Thank goodness severe woodworking injuries from table saws are not common. But they do happen.
And I have to ask, just what "bad habits" do you think SawStop usage causes among its users? I find this assertion troubling because you offer no rationale or support for this contention.like
@@steveh8724 I agree.... the "bad habits" claim stuck out like an amputated thumb when I read that (pardon the twisted cliche). I'm curious what bad habits are encouraged by using a Sawstop. It's expensive enough if you trigger the Sawstop brake that you're probably not going to casually do that more than once any more than you'd casually lop off a second finger. Does having a modern saw with a decent riving knife/splitter, blade guard, and dust collection also give woodworkers bad habits that a "spinning blade" would not? Not to trivialize bad habits... I've had to take one of my guys to the hospital to be evaluated for broken ribs due to a careless kickback, and I play in a band with a cabinet making fiddler who is missing about half of a finger on his left hand. The fact is we're human... we get tired, we get distracted, we get overly casual and comfortable with what we're doing. We're working with a material that is not homogeneous. I taught my son the importance of being mindful on the machines, of using pushsticks, where to stand, and to not distract an operator mid-cut or allow himself to be distracted mid-cut... but accidents are those things that defy all that training and effort. I don't see modern saw safety as any different than seat belts, padded dashboards, and crumple zones in modern automobiles... hopefully they don't result in "bad habits" because we don't have to fear a scull fracture on the steel dash of a '55 Chevy if we drive into a tree.
I totally agree,2 guys have set off our cabinet shop sawstop 7 times in 3 years.
$90 cartridge and $150 blade each time.
My first boss made sure I understood the shop wasn't a place for pranks etc.
I wouldn't buy a ss for myself.
I just picked up the F2 and like you went from a delta contractor to the F2. Got to say so far it is a very good saw. The only complaint would be the dust collection is so-so and when you pull the over arm collector off there is no real way to store it. But other than that it’s a pretty good saw!
Awesome video, Travis! Great to hear your thought process around this decision. Thanks for sharing. Cheers, Paul
I was eyeing a Grizzly to replace my 1953 Craftsman cabinet saw but after seeing this I think I’m changing my mind. Thanks for getting this product out there. Can’t wait to see you do a product review. Great job! 👍🏿👍🏿
I like that saw. Can’t wait to see your review once you have but it through some testing.
A woodworker with a bunch of red aluminum woodpeckers tools hanging on the wall talking about how SawStop is overpriced is..... ironic.
Wow. That is the joke of the day. Congrats to you sir!
I was thinking the same thing. I love the channel but to tell me price was a reason after putting out a video saying how much you made from your videos/plans/etc... Seems odd, unless the "deal" with laguna was an almost free deal.
I fell for the woodpeckers bait and bought a t square......It arrived yesterday. Not sure what I was expecting but I felt a little stupid (as in gullible) holding a $150 dollar piece of aluminum in my hands whose only purpose is to draw straight lines.
So.... If you have something expensive, you can't ever comment on something being expensive ever again? Isn't it possible that you might want to make a decision on purchasing something based on their own merits without having to consider everything else you've ever purchased?
Well wood peckers are expensive, but go to woodcraft and find me a square from any brand under $100. It’s basically Home Depot or $150 on that type of tool (yes I use Home Depot but I aspire for greatness). Oh and spending $75 more on a square is NOT the same as spending $1500 more on a table saw.
As a Brit who has been a professional Joiner (making doors,windows,staircases,kitchens etc ) for over 30yrs it's nice to see a saw with a decent (fully adjustable) fence. Most US Saws I see have a fence which is not safely adjustable when cutting solid timber boards. By this I mean when ripping solid timber the front/end of the fence should only go past the front of the saw blade by 1" or so this is to allow the timber to move all ways when it goes past the end of the riving knife.. Most fences run the full length of the table so if the timber had tension in it when it passes through the saw blade the timber can spread apart,close tight against the riving knife, both pieces move left or right.If the fence runs the full length of the table and both pieces of timber move/bend to the right they can bind on the fence and kickback.. I'm really surprised US channels don't question this more. I had a "debate" "argument" with an American you-tuber a few months ago who thought he knew everything, wouldn't accept that once the timber has passed the riving knife it can move in any direction and wouldn't accept an opposing opinion. Enjoyed your video.. Thanks
All about priorities. If you had not gotten the red tools on the wall and the epoxy floor you could have put that money toward a sawstop which as you said is a great saw even when not consider thesafety features.
But now he can have all three
@@bob71014 Except the added safety feature.
I bought the Sawstop PCS several years ago, loved it and used it a ton. I had to sell it when I closed my shop and I made back almost what I paid new for it. So basically I paid a few hundred bucks to use the saw for several years and have the security of the safety feature. When I get a shop again I will buy another Sawstop without question.
Resale is important. Just like safety features on a car, they do increase the value.
For my construction business I use a dewalt 60v 8-1/4” table saw. It has a riving knife, which was an upgrade from the rigid 10” we used since 2004. I added the SawStop to my garage shop this week as my kids are now of the age where they are learning and helping. I think given the absolute precision out of the box I got with SawStop, the warranty and the fact that it’s made in Oregon price had no bearing
Great video, and I appreciate the fact that you finally gave us another solid opinion...I will definitely look into these when I buy my next saw.
I've watched countless UA-cam woodworking videos and I don't remember one that claimed you need a SawStop to be considered a serious woodworker. Regardless, Laguna makes good stuff. I have the 18BX and a Supermax drum sander and they are great.
It goes both ways. It's sort of seen a sign that you've "made it" when you earn a free/discounted SS (not sure if they are doing it quite as much as they used to). And also, whenever a someone uploads a video featuring their new saw and it isn't a SS, the comments sections are FULL of armchair quarterbacks saying how they made a mistake by not getting a SS.
Basically the only reason I´d recommend a sawstop (with the safety feature) is if you are not a serious woodworker. Otherwise, I´d always take superior machines for the same price (or price range).
Love your out of the box way of thinking. Can't wait for a full review on this cool looking table saw.
I have a 20 year old Delta contractor saw with a unifence, which is basically the same as the fence you have. I love it. I use that high and low feature all the time depending on the thickness of what I'm ripping. I also love the ability to slide the fence. That's very handy when cutting long boards, or long and wide plywood as sliding it toward you makes it easier to keep what you're cutting up against the fence as you feed it into the blade. That fence is one of the reasons why I haven't bought something newer and better.
I have owned a Laguna F2 table saw for a year now and it has performed incredibly well. The fence has provided accurate square cuts. I did have to adjust it once after moving it in and out of my small space to rip full sheet plywood and MDF panels. I am very pleased with my purchase and also came to same choice about Laguna vs Sawstop or other brands.
I have a Contractors SawStop that I have had for over 4 years.....I did not buy it because it would make me a better woodworker....but because of the safety feature..... I am retired...getting older, and for the cost figured that the safety feature was important. I did not need all the features that a cabinet saw has....
I understand the safety feature......but I shouldn't have to pay 2x the saw for 1 feature that if it ever engages is going to cost easily $150 if it ever engages (replacement cartridge and blade because the blade is unusable after. Its very Apple like pricing.....
@@Taylexwow much cheaper than a finger amputation or surgery. It only takes one time to learn that lesson.
@@chadhowell1328 it also doesn't take a genius to work safely either
@@Taylexwow said every person ever. Shit happens, most understand that
@@Taylexwow Doesn't take a genius to not get in an accident...but then again, they're called accidents. Unless you're perfect, and if so, I'm very jealous.
"I just don't like being told what to think....."
I felt that in my soul man! 🤣🤣🤣🤣
I’m on board ... using the Sawstop fan boiz logic, they could charge $25,000 per saw because “what’s your finger worth?”
And yet Laguna paid him, then told him what to say and he did it like a good boy. LOLOL.
@@ron0126 Hey, it's called capitalism, perhaps you've heard of it? SawStop charges a premium for their technology. If you don't want it or can't afford it, then get whatever you want!
And either way, be careful. Most terrible blade-hand injuries happen to "experienced woodworkers" who hadn't ever had a single significant hand injury from woodworking--right up to the very moment it all went horribly wrong. I'm sure you've read dozens of accounts of how things suddenly went south. Not telling anyone what to conclude, just encouraging people to think critically.
Andsingle finger, so factor that in to your thinking.
@@steveh8724 Pretty much nailed it.
@@ron0126 my fingers are worth a lot to me to be honest :D
Great delivery of the information. Subscribed.
I was set on the F2. Price and features are pretty great, but the lead time was 5 months. Just ordered an F3 because I didn't want to wait. Super excited.
I was only generally aware of the SawStop line until I got back into woodworking in a big way over the last several months. I have a Bosch job-site table saw that has worked well over the last 20 years for DIY house projects over the last 20 years. But now I’m aspiring to do cabinet-making and even furniture. Just this weekend my wife saw me using the saw without the guard and got freaked out. It got me to thinking…
So I started doing SawStop research on the web and UA-cam and ran into this video. I don’t have 12 paragraphs for you but I’ll say this: I don’t want to have an accident. but if I do, I like the protection this offers. I wear my seatbelt all the time and never had to use it. But I’m glad my car has one and I will always use it. This feels like a seatbelt for my table saw and my revived woodworking hobby. I can afford it and expect it will last as long as I use it. Seems cheap to me.
I love that you used a picture of a Bosch REAXX tablesaw to make the point that you don't need Sawstops safety features. It's literally the only other Saw that had a safety feature comparable and Sawstop went after them.
+1 SawStop: "no one else is allowed to be safe except us", so we'll sue the crap out of anyone else who tries to make them safer.
@@chillyspoon It's much more complicated than that. Or more simple. SawStop initially offered their invention to saw manufacturers, to license the SawStop tech for use in their machines. Think something like "The New PowerMatic PM1001, with SawStop technology". Nobody took them up on it, so to bring the tech to market, they started their own saw-manufacturing company and put out their own saws, with HUGE investments to get everything going. Yes, the Bosch uses a different actuation mechanism (a superior one, IMO), but the underlying principal of *how* it works is patent-protected IP, and the purpose of that temporary protection is so that inventors are incentivized to put their products out there, and have the protections to try to get a return on the investment. Without that protection, someone else knocks off their tech without having to do nearly as much R&D, maybe utilizes their existing production infrastructure to under-cut SawStop, and SawStop goes bust.
True, the owner of the SawStop patents, didn’t want to make saws, he wanted to license it to other saw manufacturers. They didn’t seem to think our safety was worth 8%, which is what he wanted. So, he got investors together and started SawStop. They own the patent and should reap the benefits of it.
Love your breakdown and explanation. Thanks for the good video
Great video! Very informative and love your sense of humor!
I've been a hobbyist woodworker for 36 years. In that time, I've managed to cut two different fingers on my tablesaw. I'm lucky to still have all my fingers. When I decided to build all the cabinets for a new house 8 years ago, I told my wife I wanted a SawSop. She was 100% in favor. I bought the PCS model with the 52" fence and mobile base. Two years ago I added a Wixey digital readout to the fence. This saw is a dream to use! It's incredibly accurate, has ample power and, best of all, I have the security of knowing that when (not if) I next touch the moving blade, I will likely get nothing more than a scratch.
The poster preemptively comments about the likelihood that others who have SawStop will say, "But what about your fingers? Aren't those worth saving?" He apparently doesn't think the added costs for the SawStop are justified. For me, budget constraints weren't a major issue. I bought the machine for the added safety features and would do it again without hesitation.
I have been using a table saw just as long and I have never cut myself, unless you count that time I hit the sharp edge of the aluminum fence. Maybe you should be more careful when you use a saw. If your fingers are close enough to the blade to get cut by it, you are an idiot and a sawstop won't fix stupid.
I own a Saw Stop! I successfully and safely used an old Unisaw for years, but I became increasingly nervous about using it when I knew there was something safer. The price is $1500 more than the Laguna, but you are going to use the saw for years. By the time you retire from woodworking, your additional cost will be pennies per hour.
So true. My advice is use your circular saw and a $50 straight edge for a year or two more and save enough to buy the Sawstop.
@@charleselkins4546 that could get tedious but it’s totally doable.
Have a fusion 1 and love how it works, accurate quiet and easy to operate. I have had this one year.
That's a pretty slick looking saw. I can't wait to see your full review on it.
Good video. Being a retired engineer, I have also done a lot of failure mode analysis. I am looking at replacing my old table saw, one without even a riving knife. At 30 to 50 years old, I could weigh the risk and be careful even when I knew a riving knife would be so much safer. Pushing 70, my hand strength and reflexes are not what they used to be 20 years ago. I may be able to work for another 10 years. My father in law was still turning and enjoying projects into his 90's. So for me, I will go the extra bucks and buy the sawstop. My risk category is higher than it used to be and much higher than yours I would guess. My last table saw amortized over its life cost me less than $20 dollars a year. A saw stop will likely cost $250 per year for the time I use it. I am in a position to afford that. Very good video.
Can I "THUMBS UP" this video more than once?!!! Awesome video and if Laguna is watching... I am going to buy a Laguna right now! :)
I got that same saw.... great machine, a pleasure to use, the dust collection isn’t the best but it’s pretty good, the insert flexes allot, making the board stick at the end of it, a zero clearance insert takes care of that, the fence is pretty awesome, but it racks a bit , so you have to fidget with it to get the precise. But once you get used to it, it’s easy. But honestly, it’s a great machine and I use it daily, I wouldn’t hesitate to recommend this machine to anyone looking for a great saw at an awesome obtainable price. And when you walk in your shop.... it just looks pretty 😍
Very informative, Travis. Thanks for doing this. Good luck with the Laguna!
I’ve got the same model and it’s amazing. I also looked into Saw Stop and couldn’t get past the price.
How is the dust collection?
When I bought my table saw the store was really pushing sawstop. They tried to make me feel stupid because I wanted a powermatic. I’m so happy with my decision to stick to “my” choice.
great video enjoyed the facts and figures as well as the honest opinion by not running down the competition
I smiled when you talked about the hi/lo fence, my 35 year old Unisaw has that fence as well and it is extremely useful! Enjoyed your opinion and subscribed. Thanks
I’d love to see the accuracy and dust collection next. I’m largely interested
You'd need a dust collection with the correct CFM, but here's one: ua-cam.com/video/jrxortR2OKg/v-deo.html
same
I just love the look of all Laguna's stuff...
I agree, their 2 stage dust collector is incredible looking.
I do too. The Laguna is very nice looking. The video mentioned Grizzly, which are pretty good saws from what I could tell by looking at them in the old Muncy, PA showroom (Miss that! Big mistake, Grizzly.) That said, their goofy, way too large grizzly bear badges and lack of a consistent paint scheme is off-putting. They should revamp their logo into something more stylistic. A stylized "G" or a stylized bear. And it doesn't have to be so huge (Like RAM trucks are for instance. Way too large. Are they trying to be "manly"? The ram reminds me of fallopian tubes. So, just how macho is that?)
Hire an art/design student, Grizzly! There are plenty that need work and money!
If you look at a Powermatic, you know it's a Powermatic. Same with Laguna.
Ha. I totally agree with him about the overpriced SawStop. And the other posters about the overpriced Woodpeckers stuff. Buy Starrett squares.
I'm so glad I found your video. I was debating between SawStop or a Jet in December, but couldn't bring myself to fork out $3K plus. I think this is just what I needed to see!!
Great video! I am a looking at a new table saw so I'll be looking forward to seeing how you like the Laguna Fusion F2 in future videos. Looks pretty nice from this video. Keep up the great content.
I just modified my "dream shop want list." Well done, Travis.
Maybe more discussion on assembly and dialing it in. Sawstops r know for easier building and dialing in everything.
Great job. I also have the F2 Laguna for almost two years and its been amazing.
I understand where you are coming from. I'm 61 years old, and have been using a table saw for 40+ years. Never even been close to an accident. As long as you pay attention to what you are doing, and understand the risks to life and limb, you should be fine. I've always taken the safety guards off, and just reminded myself to be extra careful when using it. Thanks for the videos.
I hadn't heard of them but that's actually a price I could stomach. I'm very excited to see how things pan out!
I have had one for 7 years now and love it. Works great for me
Their bandsaws are legendary!!!
I have one. I love it. I also ran into hardly any info on them. But I went with it anyway. I have the fusion II
Your presentation was really entertaining and the is appreciated. Your deal with Laguna will definitely benefit them as I’ll be buying one (if not more) of their saws.
Thanks for this video. I appreciate your honesty. As a matter of fact, I did some research also and will be purchasing my F2 very soon. Currently, the ship date is May 25. Geesh! Seems like forever!!
I know it’s an old issue at this point, but I will never get over SawStop trying to bludgeon the industry into using its safety features. They almost single-handedly did away with affordable saws for entry level woodworkers and homeowners and that’s unforgivable. That’s my reason for not ever buying a SawStop.
"and probably your shorts" so very true!
First off - outstanding video. As a 66 year old in the process of building out my shop - if I was your age I too would look strongly consider the Laguna. However, I am noticing that my reaction time is not as great as it once was just a few years ago. So as the saying goes, "It depends." After watching the video my wife asked me what saw I would get and I told her that due to these issues of being older - I would still probably get the SawStop...but gee, you make some good and valid arguments as well. Thank you.
I bought a Laguna F2 last month and absolutely love it. I too was impressed with it being a “best bang for the buck” kind of tool. My 15 year old Craftsman served me well, but it’s fantastic to now have a saw that operates so smoothly and a rip fence that facilitates great accuracy like the F2. I appreciate you producing such an entertaining and insightful video.
Ancient craftsman saws are the perfect option if all you will ever need is a trapezoid.
You think like I do, analyze everything especially when it comes to spending money. Thank you for your insight on this saw, it looks cool!
And then make a deal to get it cheap or free in exchange for your "honest, unbiased opinion."