They sell mineral oil and shockingly they don't recommend competing brands. But other players do this too. I noticed companies that don't sell their own special oil tend to say use whatever brand you want because there are differences but only marginal ones. One good point they often bring up is that using the same oil eliminates a variable when troubleshooting problems. Magura for example has a kick ass warranty as long as you use royal blood so that's feels like a fair deal.
I'm not sure on the particulars or effects, but the compositions on the Safety Data Sheets between the Maxima and Shimano oils, for example, are different.
I'm the exact opposite. Ride mostly DH and bike parks, Code RSC with 200mm HS2 rotors are all the stopping power I need (I weigh 150lbs). Prefer the modulation from SRAM instead of the instant bite from Shimano. The levers feel a lot better too ... Glad we have choices!!
I hope that 2.3 thick rotors catch on. Bicycle rotors warp way too easily, car and motorcycle rotors don't warp nearly as easily because they are thick. I would much rather have a thicker, heavier, less finicky rotor.
Never had a problem with that, but I can absolutely see how anyone running 200 or 220 mm rotors would. The stiffness drops dramatically with diameter, so far more chance of bending them when they are hit off anything or residual stress in the material creating enough warping to be noticeable once it get heat cycled a few times. On the 2 mm rotors I use the replacement thickness is 1.5 mm. I've seen a few 2 mm rotors say they should be replace at 1.8 mm too, which is where I'm guessing a 2.3 mm rotor will recommend replacing. Once there's enough travel in the caliper pistons to not pop out when the brake is fully pulled on a minimum thickness rotor and the pads are worn to the backings there's no problem there anyway.
@@peglor I was using 2.3 tektro rotors with shimano brakes and it worked great. Shimano disks are super thin 1.9mm. I haven't had issues with warping but I think the benefit is from the reduced pad movement making the brakes engage faster so you get a firm lever feel. When my disc's wear down to near the replacement thickness (1.7mm) My code rsc brakes need regular bleeds or the lever drops to the bar as the pads wear down.
@@landslide4187 Rotor thickness doesn't affect the length of pad/piston movement . It's defined by the free stroke of the piston seals before the automatic.pad wear adjustment kicks in. (In long term. The moment you change a thicker disk for a thinner one you may think that. But as soon the pads wear this effect is gone)
@@IngoHerges Rotor thickness impacts how far the pistons and pad move before they hit something (the rotor). This impacts free play and bight point. Hence it impacts lever feel.
@@kingflynxi9420 DOT used to be an issue. I had paint strip on avid brakes from it but now that doesn't happen. Apart from a slightly higher need for gloves and safety glasses, DOT cleans up with water so no need to spray alcohol for clean up - making clean up easier. DOT is cheap and easy to get - now you need a specific mineral oil brand (marketing ploy). I though DOT was a pain to start with but it is actually easier to use than mineral due to the clean up it is the sram bleed procedure that sucks.
@@landslide4187curious if you’re in a dry area. I’ve had some success extending bleed time by adding DOT grease on fittings, but mineral oil seems to resist high humidity way better in my experience.
@@jamesmcpherson3924 Yes it is usually very dry and I rarely ride in the wet. Since it is dry and dusty I don't need to hose off the bike which might also push water into the system.
Bought a pair of saint brakes $250 a few years ago, which is less than a single maven brake, and I can't see why I would change to maven honestly. I never felt like I lack power
Also interesting how not a single Shimano or Magura brake was mentioned in the power comparison, given almost everyone has used those brands before or still does, but a bunch of exotic stuff many people haven't even seen, not to mind ridden properly was.
I thought my TRP quadiem calipers were ugly but yes these Maven calipers are a littler uglier😅Plus like my quadiem it looks like you will need to remove the calipers to change pads
They might perform well but I think they look ugly AF! The caliper reminds me of a spider with 4 eyes... For looks, Hope, Trickstuff and Magura are definitely at the top!
really these are 4 pot with massive pads (bigger then hope tech v4) so no not at least as strong f loads stronger designed for Down hill racing and heavy e bikes. You just asked if they are as good as cross country brakes hmmm. Quick answer Deore are a pile of poo compared to these
You obviously haven't tried a good set of shimano 2 pistons, my 10 year old deores are stronger than my friends 4 pot codes, so the first commenter's worries were completely explainable
I'm willing to bet the EVH paint is the only good thing about these. SRAM has a lot of room for improvement and I saw no comparison to Shimano-anything in the video. SRAMs are a pain to bleed, require frequent bleeding, and no good brake has built in mush. Every SRAM-braked bike I've ridden is pull, nothing. Pull harder, still nothing. Pull harder yet, lock. And don't spill that DOT fluid on a painted surface!
@ProjectFarm should have a video on brake power. I'm sure you can test how much pressure the caliper applies to the amount of force the lever is receiving. Settle this once and for all.
This is just simple geometry - the force applied at the caliper is the force applied to the lever times the distance from the lever pivot to the point your finger pulls divided by the distance from the pivot to the pushrod to the master piston times the total area of the slave pistons divided by the area of the master piston.
@@piast99 If you were pulling the brake hard enough to permanently deform its parts that statement would indeed be the reason you've hit a limit in braking power, but otherwise, while it's storing more strain energy, the force being applied by the pads to the disk will increase as the lever is pulled further.
@@peglor I think he is referring to the small amount of elastic deformation of various components within the system. The caliper pistons don't receive 100% of the force applied at the lever because of the strain energy of the various components that transmit the force (lever blade, hose, caliper etc.). I imagine it's negligible, but it would be interesting to run the numbers.
@@Jay_radd If so he is he's fundamentally incorrect in his understanding of the laws of physics relating to the relationship between work/energy and force. Energy is the ability to do work and in a unit system that's not stuck in the dark ages, force in Newtons, times the distance in meters the force causes something to move is equal to energy (Or the work done) in Joules. Note force is the value in Newtons, it has to move something through a distance to do work/expend energy. Pulling the brake lever further will mean that more energy is stored as a result of the strain, but the higher force applied to the lever (Thanks to Newton's third law) means more force must be applied to the brake fluid creating a higher pressure in the brake fluid than before, which means the slave pistons in the caliper are also applying more force to the brake pads, brcause th pressure is effectively constant throughout the whole pressurised volume of the brake fluid. The work done and therefore the energy expended in pulling the lever will be higher on a spongy, flexy brake, but the maximum pressure the brake can achieve is limited by the force applied to the lever, not the work done pulling it unless the friction behaviour of the lever pivot and piston seals dramatically changes with load (Which, to my knowledge, it doesn't).
100% there are brakes that are too strong. Rode my buddies bike that had shimano saints that would lock up if you looked at them wrong. They made me scared come into a corner with speed, feeling like I'd lock the front and wash out. I have shimano XT and XTR 4 pistons and they have perfect amount of bite/modulation. Every sram I've tried there was way too much modulation and lever pull to get enough power.
You can get Codes for very cheap, at least in Europe. People get their Bikes equipped with them and replace it straight away. Second hand market is flooded with them, I've tried to sell mine for 150 € and no one showed interest.
"Full stop." I saw in your face you were proud of that one. I dig it. Great job with the "stand in one spot and talk to the camera" video. Those are hard to make interesting enough and you did it! You seem stoked about the brakes. They must be cool if that's the case! Related: more things that I don't want to spend that amount of money on. I guess I'll continue riding my current stuff into the dirt!
Lol I switched to Codes because Shimano brakes were too powerful and I needed to have the brakes “overpower”my mind’s “oh no I’m gonna die, time to grab a handful” response by not working well enough to actually stop me at speed 😂😂
I switched from 180 Centerline to 220 (front) 200mm (rear) HS2 rotors on my Code RSCs and it made a huge difference. Never tried TRP, Magura or anything else other than XTs, but I have all the stopping power I need. I'd definitely go OTB if they were any more powerful.
Soooo, start with the smallest rotors your bike can fit because this brake is tooooo powerful but actually we want to sell you another set of rotors and adapters when you inevitably want to get bigger rotors. Also, it almost feels like they present the whole bigger rotors equals more power thing like a unique feature?? Every brake can deliver more power if you put a bigger rotor in it 🫡
Likely a very good brake, not saying otherwise. The size and design of both caliper and master cylinder on the other hand is absolutely disgusting. The size of that main body has got to be at least twice the size of V4's and if they are at similar power levels.. Why not make them look appealing? The caliper I straight up wouldn't put on my bike. That said, they are probably good:)
As a brake guy, you can never, ever have too much braking power. As long as you can effectively modulate it. I run Shimano SLX 4 pot brakes on my Ripmo AF with N04C pads on 223/203 rotors. All the stopping power, with all of the modulation. No on/off switches here.
It was not even a review. They published no test data or even extensive personal experience using it. It was mostly information straight off Sram's website with some vaguely worded crumbs of partially second hand experiences describing the brakes. All of that is perfectly okay though since the video is titled first look and not review.
I've been using Magura MT7 Pro HC on my Stumpjumper and then moved to my Mondraker Crafty for about 5 years. I love them. I just ordered a new Stumpjumper 15 Expert with the Maven Bronze brakes so it will be interesting to see how they compare. If I like them, I'll keep them but if I don't, I will sell them and put some of those new Magura Gustav's on there. Magura brakes really are incredibly good. Also for context, I am 6'4", 105kg (~231lb) and I ride reasonably hard so I need strong brakes with a lot of thermal mass to stop the brakes from overheating. The MT7's have been great for this not only because of the huge calliper but also the thick discs. I also upgraded to some Magura MDR-P two piece rotors for even more thermal stability with a 220mm on the front and 203mm on the rear. Note: Thermal mass is about spreading the heat through more material, not about keeping the heat in. The more mass, the more heat energy you can put into it before it gets too hot and boils the oil.
You mentioned the equivalents hope tech 4 V4 and trickstuff direttisima. The difference is, that both hope and trickstuff doesn't look like a wart, the maven does. Even as a big Sram fan i am shocked how ugly the Maven caliper looks.😢
finally, a brake I might need to detune w/ smaller rotors! And, thank goodness for mineral fluid brakes!!!! That said, some people say the lever pull before they even engage has way too much resistance, leading to arm pump.....(nobody seems to want to address this)
Nice. I just hope SRAM made a brake you don't have to constantly fiddle around with to not have slow blades or stuck calipers or any of the many other annoying "features" or all SRAM brakes I have every tried.
Lever feel and modulation isn’t as good as Hayes Dominion and they come at a higher price point. Calipers look like they got ran through a blender. SCAM should just just stick to drivetrain components.
3:24, so the same as every other manufacturer says. I call BS and bet you can easily use any onther mineral oil in them. Maybe the only thing you might watch out for is the boiling point, as it varies between the brands, and if Mavens are supposed to work in higher temps, then it would shorten the service interval. Or so I think
Nah what the F SRAM engineers have smoked, brakes are all about transforming your energy into heat, your rotors and calipers need to dissipate heat to be efficient, they have some carbon ceramic pads and rotors to justify that line of thinking?! I don't think so 😂 Edit, 2 months later I tried the maven silvers, wtf journalists you guys ... Yes they lock a wheel pretty good but need way more lever effort than let's say a SRAM DB8. What a friggin shitshow...
Or.....just grab shimano saints and save the $. They can stop a car and have a ton of downhill world cups to their name. Surprised they weren't mentioned
I think they Hayes A4 are in the same ballpark, would be interesting to learn a little bit more about the modulation compared to previous models. And as long as they are not as powerful as the Trickstuff Maxima they are not too powerful. :)
Finally a non DOT fluid brake from SRAM and seems to have a decent price as well. To powerful brakes… I don’t think that exists. I love my Trickstuff Maximas with 200mm rotors ❤
@@puffilp4493 Yeah it’s not like I’m going away from my Maximas but I still think that it’s a gods thing that we get more powerful mineral oil brakes on the market. Especially if they can be used with Bionol or similar environmentally friendly option.
I run Magura mt5s front and back on my bike, MRDP 220MM disk at the front and a 203 storm, I can lock up front or back wheels any conditions any time, never have trouble with heat and I’m looking at £47 for the front disk and £26 I think at the moment for the rear disk plus £96 per brake, i dont see myself EVER needing more power because once your locking wheels/ going over the bars more power isn’t going to help.
I think brakes could be too powerfull. It all comes down to breaking traction, if your brakes make you slide, its just worse. But i think we are far from that, at least with the most common breaks you mentionned.
Interesting that the Hope V4s are similarly strong brakes but look one million times better. I'm not a fashionista by any stretch but holy crap those Maven calipers are ugly. Like, offensively ugly. That's the opinion to which I'm legally entitled, you're welcome to disagree. You're wrong, but you're welcome to disagree 🤣
I have AVID Codes from 2007 (yes, 2007). Thy still have enough power with 203 mm rotors in my downhill bike. Based on what OEM bikes have, looks like something like: Codes R/RSC for Sram setups and XT and XTR (both with 4 pistons of course) for most Shimano setups...
And once again I am wondering why their brake and brakepads only seem to use a part of the brakediscs width of braking area. It looks like the HS2 discs have around 1.5mm of surface area on the inner edge that is not used for braking. I love the HS2 Sram discs on my Hope Tech4 brakes. The discs have around 15.5mm of width to brake on and the Tech4 covers 15mm of it.
I don’t care how “strong” they’re being advertised as they don’t even have a monoblock caliper design. Not to mention mineral oil is trash compared to dot 4. Just more bike industry garbage. These will be gone in a year or two.
If there is such a thing as too strong of a brake i am yet to experience it. I run DHR evos with saint pads and 223 mil rotors. But I am a particularly large woman who tends to ride steep trails.
As a product no I don’t think a brake can be too powerful. But put it on the wrong bike and then yeah, 4 pot 220mm rotors on a short travel hardtail for example. (Assuming you’re not insane and riding downhills on it) You end losing modulation and just lock the wheels up.
This is good I was getting sick of seeing people selling their garbage Code Rs they ripped off their new bike, now we will see these things on Facebook marketplace instead! Thanks SRAM!
Theres that special one of a kind mineral oil again! Also the comment made in the lever having to be more in as to much lever play before the bite point is interesting especially being brand new
Love my shimano mt 420 4 piston brakes. Works the way I need my brakes to work, right there when I need them, can drag or feather and bite hard on command.
Indeed. I have the M7120 four-pot SLX's in the front and two-pot M9100's in the rear and they work phenomenally. I usually say there's no such thing as too much braking power, but I rarely use any more than 30-40% of the lever stroke despite weighing nearly 100 kg.
Shimano and Magura oil are perfectly interchangeable and lots of third party companies offer mineral oil not specific for any company, even though all brake manufacturers tell us to only use their oil. Hopefully someone with more knowledge of chemicals can chime in..
I changed my Xt and saint from Shimano mineral oil to putolite 2.5wt oil and it is a great improvement. Lighter lever action and no wandering bite point. I am sure that it is not recommended but is an internet “hack” that works great.
Some points which I thought could use some more explanation. Greater thermal mass not only makes them cool down slower, but also heat up slower. Overall, this usually keeps the temperature a bit lower and more consistent. Flex in brake calipers(or the whole brake in general) reduces braking force by wasting energy to deform the caliper. A stiffer caliper therefore generally results in higher braking force with a less spongy feel. Mineral oil has a lower boiling point compared to DOT 5.1, but as long as you stay below that you shouldn't feel any difference in performance. DOT 5.1 is hydroscopic, meaning it attracts water, which it will do even through brake lines from the moisture in the air. This decreases the boiling point over time and can also damage the brake if you don't change the fluid regularly. Unless they used some super special seals... [Edit] Spoiler alert: Apparently they do! ...I don't see how using Shimano/Magura/TRP etc. mineral oil could damage the brake. But please don't experiment with your brakes unless you know what you're doing. [Edit] So please DO NOT use different brake fluid from what is recommended. The Lost Co. has a nice more technical video about the whole brake for more infos.
My worry with this idea of higher thermal mass, is that the fundamentally, the rate of temperature rise in a block of material is a function of the surface to volume ratio and increases in volume (Which correlate to mass and therefore thermal mass) are not matched proportionally with the same increase in surface area (Which is the main path by which heat can leave the brake, though good thermal contact with an aluminium frame will provide an excellent conduction path to help cool the brake too, but all brakes get this - and brakes that run hot have been known to loosen the inserts for the brake mount threads on carbon frames, though hopefully not current models as carbon fibre is enough of an environmental disaster without further shortening its pre-landfill existence though bad design choices). The quickest explanation of why this is not the amazing breakthrough SRAMs marketing weasels claim it is is to do some maths - the volume of a cube of side length x is x^3, its surface area is 6x^2. Double the side length of the cube and you're at 8x^3 and surface area of 24x^2, so now there's 8 times the thermal mass, but the area to dissipate heat from has only gone up by a factor of 4. This means that if these brakes do overheat you'll be waiting a long time for the temperature to drop. By comparison, in the same conditions, a brake designed for a high thermal dissipation (Features like pad backings and a disk rotor core that are more conductive than standard steel, and fins to increase the surface area for heat loss for example), will be able to transfer far more energy from the brake and do it continuously all day without overheating, while also cooling much more quickly if it does overheat. At the risk of stating the obvious a high thermal mass almost always a high actual mass too - there is no mention of including phase change materials or any other method of increasing thermal mass without increasing actual mass, so I doubt they're doing anything interesting there. Energy put into the brake that makes it flex will be stored like in a spring, but once nothing permanently deforms, it won't affect the peak power, just the brake feel at the lever. There are plenty of brakes where the max power is reached, as in pulling the lever further does not increase braking force, I've experienced it with cantilever brakes, Magura rim brakes and VBrakes back in the day and more recently - though still not all that recently - with 2 piston Shimanos on long and steep trails that are too dangerous to allow speed to build on, but this seems to be a overheating pad issue meaning they've hit their friction limit rather than braking energy loss to flex. Shimano say their mineral oil has a higher boiling point than DOT fluid, and there's no reason this can't be true if you look up the properties of the fluids involved. High boiling point mineral oils certainly have a much higher boiling point than DOT fluid that's absorbed a small amount of water, which it always does over time. The correct word for this behaviour is hygroscopic incidentally. The danger with mineral oil is where water does get into the brake (Though it's not drawn in, so very careless bike storage - like leaving it in a river or something - or a crack in unpressurised part of the brake reservoir that lets water in is what's needed there). Water doesn't mix with oil and is denser, so it collects in the lowest part of the brae, the caliper, and boils at the boiling point of water (100 degC at 1 atmosphere), which is way way lower than the boiling point of contaminated DOT fluid. The reason DOT fluid is used in motor vehicle brakes is mostly to do with how little maintenance is done on some cars, combined with the consequences of losing brakes on 2 tonnes of steel at 120 km/h for anyone around it. It's a running joke in the bike industry how every company on mineral oil claims their oil is unique and completely incompatible with all other mineral oils. I've never heard of a brake failure due to mixing oils. I ran Citroen LHM (Hydraulic oil for their hydropneumatic suspension) in Maguras for nearly a decade in the late 90's with no issues. The problem here is that mineral oil has a basically infinite shelf life, so once you buy one overpriced bottle, you don't need to bin it every few years like with DOT fluid, so they have to make their money somehow.
@@peglor i see your point, but I don't think overheating was the problem they wanted to solve with the increase in thermal mass, but keep fluctuation of temperature low. High dissipation won't help if you constantly go in and out of your preferred temperature zone. That said, for mountain biking i'm not sure if there really is a temperature minimum you need to stay above of. I never had a disc brake that wouldn't bite before getting up to temperature. But then again all the the stuff shimano uses for temperature managment could be the reason why the bite point wanders around... hard to tell anything really without extensive testing.
@@a.r.8850 Shimano's wandering bite point is a result of them changing the amount of seal roll their brakes' caliper seals can do as the pistons move. As a side note, the pistons in a disk brake caliper do not normally slide in the seals when the brake is pulled (Except very occasionally to compensate for pad wear or when you lever them back before replacing pads for example), the piston movement is small enough that the seals are able to roll without sliding and still complete the small movement between the brake being off and on. The springiness in the rolled piston seals helps to retract the pistons evenly when the lever is released. The stupid, awful, annoying, fiddly springs almost every manufacturer except Magura, the Hope trials brake and some of the Hayes brakes from the '90s) use between the pads are there to stop the pads rattling, not to help the pistons retract. You can confirm this yourself by removing those springs and you'll find there's no difference in brake feel or performance at all, but the brake pad rattle is even more annoying than the dealing with the springs themselves. Shimano's idea was that designing their calipers to allow more seal roll would allow the pistons to pull back further when the lever is released, reducing or eliminating disk rub, getting real value from the servo wave mechanism in the lever which supports relatively longer caliper piston travel via its variable leverage ratio. The actual result was pretty much constant lazy piston behaviour from the brake, leading to the disk being flexed sideways when the brake is pulled rather than the pads moving evenly onto the disk. It's easily fixed (Until pad wear causes it again) as follows. Remove the wheel and pull the lever 2 or 3 times and replace the wheel if the bite point is low. If this comes back quickly when you pull the brake a few times after replacing the wheel examine caliper closely as you pull the brake and you'll see the disk flexing to one side or the other instead of staying put with only one pad moving in the caliper. Take a screwdriver or similar and wedge it against the caliper and the moving brake pad to stop the pad that's pushing the disk sideways from moving and pump the brake lever to push the pistons on the other side out, that'll usually get you a few decent spins worth of stable bite and takes a couple of minutes. A longer term, but still temporary fix is to pump the pistons a decent bit out of the caliper (Don't remove them) and wiping the piston sidewalls with mineral oil before pushing them back in and cleaning as much oil as possible off everything before replacing the pads and putting it back on the disk. I solved it permanently by buying Maguras, which use magnet to stop the pads rattling, with the added benefit of never having to deal with those shitty springs between the pads ever again too.
@@a.r.8850 Any bike disk I've used has had plenty of power from dead cold - but I usually run organic pads, which heat faster because they're better thermal insulators, so the heat at the contact point of the rotor can't conduct out to the rest of the pad as quickly. Another potential issue with high thermal mass brakes is their handling of wet conditions. Spraying a brake with water will cool it 2 to 3 orders of magnitude more effectively than just air does, so the higher thermal mass won't matter for holding heat in this case and the brake will still howl until it's dried the braking surface. A high thermal mass brake may take longer to heat up enough to do this too, because you can only add energy at a fixed rate limited to the amount of grip you have for braking and the steepness of the terrain, but more heat is needed to get a given temperature increase.
@peglor ok that is a long reply 😄. Are you sure you actually mean "roll"? Because the seals are quad rings, they flex. Where do you have the information from that they allow for more flex? I don't see how a larger amount of allowed deflection might result in changing bite point during a descent, can you elaborate on that?
The price increase for 10 to 15% brake performance increase is laughable. These, to me are another waste of money for what you get. Yet another product for the top 1% of freestyle riders that ride so steep downs that these might and I mean might justify the product.
Hayes are great, theyre the best Ive ever used and work flawelessley. The sram brakes I have just went straight to the parts bin, these maybe a different build quality but well have to wait and see
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Looking forward to a Maven vs Trickstuff Maxima comparison. I like the comparisons of things I 100% can't afford.
"Special" mineral oil... Yeah, of course.
They sell mineral oil and shockingly they don't recommend competing brands. But other players do this too. I noticed companies that don't sell their own special oil tend to say use whatever brand you want because there are differences but only marginal ones. One good point they often bring up is that using the same oil eliminates a variable when troubleshooting problems. Magura for example has a kick ass warranty as long as you use royal blood so that's feels like a fair deal.
I'm not sure on the particulars or effects, but the compositions on the Safety Data Sheets between the Maxima and Shimano oils, for example, are different.
Having always rode shimano brakes, I can't stand the way the lever feels on sram brakes, I'll keep my saints...
Me too. No good brake has built in mush.
If you want your Shimano brakes to feel like SRAM it's pretty easy, just add an air bubble.
I have had code RS and XT. Can’t stand the Code.
I'm the exact opposite. Ride mostly DH and bike parks, Code RSC with 200mm HS2 rotors are all the stopping power I need (I weigh 150lbs). Prefer the modulation from SRAM instead of the instant bite from Shimano. The levers feel a lot better too ... Glad we have choices!!
@@topspot4834A friend also reckons I am getting arm pump due to my Saints. This may be a good alternative now.
I hope that 2.3 thick rotors catch on. Bicycle rotors warp way too easily, car and motorcycle rotors don't warp nearly as easily because they are thick. I would much rather have a thicker, heavier, less finicky rotor.
Never had a problem with that, but I can absolutely see how anyone running 200 or 220 mm rotors would. The stiffness drops dramatically with diameter, so far more chance of bending them when they are hit off anything or residual stress in the material creating enough warping to be noticeable once it get heat cycled a few times.
On the 2 mm rotors I use the replacement thickness is 1.5 mm. I've seen a few 2 mm rotors say they should be replace at 1.8 mm too, which is where I'm guessing a 2.3 mm rotor will recommend replacing. Once there's enough travel in the caliper pistons to not pop out when the brake is fully pulled on a minimum thickness rotor and the pads are worn to the backings there's no problem there anyway.
@@peglor I was using 2.3 tektro rotors with shimano brakes and it worked great. Shimano disks are super thin 1.9mm. I haven't had issues with warping but I think the benefit is from the reduced pad movement making the brakes engage faster so you get a firm lever feel. When my disc's wear down to near the replacement thickness (1.7mm) My code rsc brakes need regular bleeds or the lever drops to the bar as the pads wear down.
@@landslide4187 Rotor thickness doesn't affect the length of pad/piston movement . It's defined by the free stroke of the piston seals before the automatic.pad wear adjustment kicks in. (In long term. The moment you change a thicker disk for a thinner one you may think that. But as soon the pads wear this effect is gone)
@@IngoHerges Rotor thickness impacts how far the pistons and pad move before they hit something (the rotor). This impacts free play and bight point. Hence it impacts lever feel.
@@peglor also fork, axle and hub stiffness hat a lot on influence in bending rotors or not.
FINALLY, a mineral oil brake that isn't their DB8
seem bro got some problems with DB8
@juliuslin3827 yeah they're cheap, their DOT brakes suck majorly and the DB8s might be reliable but they're still cheapo
@@kingflynxi9420 DOT used to be an issue. I had paint strip on avid brakes from it but now that doesn't happen. Apart from a slightly higher need for gloves and safety glasses, DOT cleans up with water so no need to spray alcohol for clean up - making clean up easier. DOT is cheap and easy to get - now you need a specific mineral oil brand (marketing ploy). I though DOT was a pain to start with but it is actually easier to use than mineral due to the clean up it is the sram bleed procedure that sucks.
@@landslide4187curious if you’re in a dry area. I’ve had some success extending bleed time by adding DOT grease on fittings, but mineral oil seems to resist high humidity way better in my experience.
@@jamesmcpherson3924 Yes it is usually very dry and I rarely ride in the wet. Since it is dry and dusty I don't need to hose off the bike which might also push water into the system.
Bought a pair of saint brakes $250 a few years ago, which is less than a single maven brake, and I can't see why I would change to maven honestly. I never felt like I lack power
modulation maybe
@@joeblack4026nonsense, modulation is a myth. It's an excuse for bad fine motor skills such as moving the finger a tiny bit, skill issue
@@mamo4731
100%
Also interesting how not a single Shimano or Magura brake was mentioned in the power comparison, given almost everyone has used those brands before or still does, but a bunch of exotic stuff many people haven't even seen, not to mind ridden properly was.
Braking is about feeling the ground…tactile….at the edge of grip.
Or just buy TRP. Those calipers are pretty hideous
I thought my TRP quadiem calipers were ugly but yes these Maven calipers are a littler uglier😅Plus like my quadiem it looks like you will need to remove the calipers to change pads
They might perform well but I think they look ugly AF! The caliper reminds me of a spider with 4 eyes... For looks, Hope, Trickstuff and Magura are definitely at the top!
So are they at least strong s Deore 2 Piston?
really these are 4 pot with massive pads (bigger then hope tech v4) so no not at least as strong f loads stronger designed for Down hill racing and heavy e bikes. You just asked if they are as good as cross country brakes hmmm. Quick answer Deore are a pile of poo compared to these
You obviously haven't tried a good set of shimano 2 pistons, my 10 year old deores are stronger than my friends 4 pot codes, so the first commenter's worries were completely explainable
I'm willing to bet the EVH paint is the only good thing about these. SRAM has a lot of room for improvement and I saw no comparison to Shimano-anything in the video. SRAMs are a pain to bleed, require frequent bleeding, and no good brake has built in mush. Every SRAM-braked bike I've ridden is pull, nothing. Pull harder, still nothing. Pull harder yet, lock. And don't spill that DOT fluid on a painted surface!
@ProjectFarm should have a video on brake power. I'm sure you can test how much pressure the caliper applies to the amount of force the lever is receiving. Settle this once and for all.
This is just simple geometry - the force applied at the caliper is the force applied to the lever times the distance from the lever pivot to the point your finger pulls divided by the distance from the pivot to the pushrod to the master piston times the total area of the slave pistons divided by the area of the master piston.
@@peglor That would be true if the lever, the master cylinder, the hose, the calliper and other bits and bobs were infinitely stiff. And they are not.
@@piast99 If you were pulling the brake hard enough to permanently deform its parts that statement would indeed be the reason you've hit a limit in braking power, but otherwise, while it's storing more strain energy, the force being applied by the pads to the disk will increase as the lever is pulled further.
@@peglor I think he is referring to the small amount of elastic deformation of various components within the system. The caliper pistons don't receive 100% of the force applied at the lever because of the strain energy of the various components that transmit the force (lever blade, hose, caliper etc.). I imagine it's negligible, but it would be interesting to run the numbers.
@@Jay_radd If so he is he's fundamentally incorrect in his understanding of the laws of physics relating to the relationship between work/energy and force. Energy is the ability to do work and in a unit system that's not stuck in the dark ages, force in Newtons, times the distance in meters the force causes something to move is equal to energy (Or the work done) in Joules. Note force is the value in Newtons, it has to move something through a distance to do work/expend energy.
Pulling the brake lever further will mean that more energy is stored as a result of the strain, but the higher force applied to the lever (Thanks to Newton's third law) means more force must be applied to the brake fluid creating a higher pressure in the brake fluid than before, which means the slave pistons in the caliper are also applying more force to the brake pads, brcause th pressure is effectively constant throughout the whole pressurised volume of the brake fluid.
The work done and therefore the energy expended in pulling the lever will be higher on a spongy, flexy brake, but the maximum pressure the brake can achieve is limited by the force applied to the lever, not the work done pulling it unless the friction behaviour of the lever pivot and piston seals dramatically changes with load (Which, to my knowledge, it doesn't).
If the performance is similar to a DH-R Evo then I would much rather have DH-R Evos. Those look sick, these Mavens look like a tumor.
"same as before.... but marketing" HAHA
100% there are brakes that are too strong. Rode my buddies bike that had shimano saints that would lock up if you looked at them wrong. They made me scared come into a corner with speed, feeling like I'd lock the front and wash out. I have shimano XT and XTR 4 pistons and they have perfect amount of bite/modulation. Every sram I've tried there was way too much modulation and lever pull to get enough power.
new caliper but old pump? SRAM doesn't need a more powerful brake, SRAM just needs a brake that works
My takeaway is hopefully Code RSC's are now cheaper lol
You can get Codes for very cheap, at least in Europe. People get their Bikes equipped with them and replace it straight away. Second hand market is flooded with them, I've tried to sell mine for 150 € and no one showed interest.
don't get code RSC, those brakes are sh&#
Meh, I'll keep my Saints.
"Full stop."
I saw in your face you were proud of that one. I dig it.
Great job with the "stand in one spot and talk to the camera" video. Those are hard to make interesting enough and you did it! You seem stoked about the brakes. They must be cool if that's the case!
Related: more things that I don't want to spend that amount of money on. I guess I'll continue riding my current stuff into the dirt!
Friendship ended with Shigura, now ShiRam is my new friend.
is shiram short for shit sram?
I got it wrong! Why would you keep anything from Shimano? This should be Sragura instead. This nice forged brake lever and Magura's one piece caliper.
Shimano magura, shimano sram, levers and calipers because everything is now mineral oil
also my first thought! Curoius when the first guys show up with ShiRam in the bike park :D
@@AntiDEDokno I’ve had so many magura calipers explode on me, they do feel amazing but to many issues.
Lol I switched to Codes because Shimano brakes were too powerful and I needed to have the brakes “overpower”my mind’s “oh no I’m gonna die, time to grab a handful” response by not working well enough to actually stop me at speed 😂😂
I currently run 220 and 200mm rotors but with a very slow biting break just for consistancy, i bet these would throw me over the bars in an instant.
I switched from 180 Centerline to 220 (front) 200mm (rear) HS2 rotors on my Code RSCs and it made a huge difference. Never tried TRP, Magura or anything else other than XTs, but I have all the stopping power I need. I'd definitely go OTB if they were any more powerful.
Soooo, start with the smallest rotors your bike can fit because this brake is tooooo powerful but actually we want to sell you another set of rotors and adapters when you inevitably want to get bigger rotors. Also, it almost feels like they present the whole bigger rotors equals more power thing like a unique feature?? Every brake can deliver more power if you put a bigger rotor in it 🫡
A caliper only a mother could love...
Likely a very good brake, not saying otherwise. The size and design of both caliper and master cylinder on the other hand is absolutely disgusting. The size of that main body has got to be at least twice the size of V4's and if they are at similar power levels.. Why not make them look appealing? The caliper I straight up wouldn't put on my bike. That said, they are probably good:)
As a brake guy, you can never, ever have too much braking power. As long as you can effectively modulate it.
I run Shimano SLX 4 pot brakes on my Ripmo AF with N04C pads on 223/203 rotors. All the stopping power, with all of the modulation. No on/off switches here.
You don't weigh 100kg+ do you? 😅
About 80 kg kitted out.
That was a suprisingly honest review. No overhyping, just facts
It was not even a review. They published no test data or even extensive personal experience using it. It was mostly information straight off Sram's website with some vaguely worded crumbs of partially second hand experiences describing the brakes. All of that is perfectly okay though since the video is titled first look and not review.
More like lack of facts.
@jock- "a surprisingly honest review " really ? it was one sentence of hyperbole -
"the strongest brakes ever made , full stop "
give me powerful mineral oil sram brakes and I'll switch. Dot fluid on my living room floor is/was a problem😮
Finally, it’s still sram, so they won’t last too much, after three months will be the same garbage as always.
At what point is it easier for Pinkbike to send the market directors of the brands to perform their own bullet points themselves?
Jesus half the comments are bots...
it's pinkbike man...
@@STLMTB do they really not give a shit?
Im a bot
Beep beep boop boop
I'll just wait for Sram Maven V2
Good idea. You know the first run is going to have problems. It's a sram product after all
I've been using Magura MT7 Pro HC on my Stumpjumper and then moved to my Mondraker Crafty for about 5 years. I love them. I just ordered a new Stumpjumper 15 Expert with the Maven Bronze brakes so it will be interesting to see how they compare. If I like them, I'll keep them but if I don't, I will sell them and put some of those new Magura Gustav's on there. Magura brakes really are incredibly good. Also for context, I am 6'4", 105kg (~231lb) and I ride reasonably hard so I need strong brakes with a lot of thermal mass to stop the brakes from overheating. The MT7's have been great for this not only because of the huge calliper but also the thick discs. I also upgraded to some Magura MDR-P two piece rotors for even more thermal stability with a 220mm on the front and 203mm on the rear.
Note: Thermal mass is about spreading the heat through more material, not about keeping the heat in. The more mass, the more heat energy you can put into it before it gets too hot and boils the oil.
The longevity claim might be centered around the fact that mineral oil, unlike DOT fluid, is not hygroscopic (it doesn't absorb water).
Had me right up until "proprietary mineral oil"
At least it's not that expensive.
You mentioned the equivalents hope tech 4 V4 and trickstuff direttisima. The difference is, that both hope and trickstuff doesn't look like a wart, the maven does.
Even as a big Sram fan i am shocked how ugly the Maven caliper looks.😢
finally, a brake I might need to detune w/ smaller rotors! And, thank goodness for mineral fluid brakes!!!!
That said, some people say the lever pull before they even engage has way too much resistance, leading to arm pump.....(nobody seems to want to address this)
Nice. I just hope SRAM made a brake you don't have to constantly fiddle around with to not have slow blades or stuck calipers or any of the many other annoying "features" or all SRAM brakes I have every tried.
@Dario solid review!!! what pants are those? and I maybe in a minority but I think the Eddie VH red caliper look ❤🔥
Sooooooooooooooo, basically the Shimano XT or Saint.....okay....
nothing wrong with more power as long the modulation is good and configurable
If bikes are faster/heavier, you need stronger brakes. I’m 220 pounds. I need a strong brake😅.
Lever feel and modulation isn’t as good as Hayes Dominion and they come at a higher price point. Calipers look like they got ran through a blender. SCAM should just just stick to drivetrain components.
3:24, so the same as every other manufacturer says. I call BS and bet you can easily use any onther mineral oil in them. Maybe the only thing you might watch out for is the boiling point, as it varies between the brands, and if Mavens are supposed to work in higher temps, then it would shorten the service interval. Or so I think
Yes, ive used different types of mineral oils including baby oil and have not had any issue. Sram just doesnt want to promote competition😅
Nah what the F SRAM engineers have smoked, brakes are all about transforming your energy into heat, your rotors and calipers need to dissipate heat to be efficient, they have some carbon ceramic pads and rotors to justify that line of thinking?! I don't think so 😂
Edit, 2 months later I tried the maven silvers, wtf journalists you guys ... Yes they lock a wheel pretty good but need way more lever effort than let's say a SRAM DB8. What a friggin shitshow...
Or.....just grab shimano saints and save the $. They can stop a car and have a ton of downhill world cups to their name. Surprised they weren't mentioned
I think they Hayes A4 are in the same ballpark, would be interesting to learn a little bit more about the modulation compared to previous models. And as long as they are not as powerful as the Trickstuff Maxima they are not too powerful. :)
Finally a non DOT fluid brake from SRAM and seems to have a decent price as well. To powerful brakes… I don’t think that exists. I love my Trickstuff Maximas with 200mm rotors ❤
I‘d only be interested in how much power the Mavens actually generate and if it’s even close to a Maxima or an Intend Trinity
@@puffilp4493 Yeah it’s not like I’m going away from my Maximas but I still think that it’s a gods thing that we get more powerful mineral oil brakes on the market. Especially if they can be used with Bionol or similar environmentally friendly option.
I run Magura mt5s front and back on my bike, MRDP 220MM disk at the front and a 203 storm, I can lock up front or back wheels any conditions any time, never have trouble with heat and I’m looking at £47 for the front disk and £26 I think at the moment for the rear disk plus £96 per brake, i dont see myself EVER needing more power because once your locking wheels/ going over the bars more power isn’t going to help.
Shimano Guys = We always had tons of stopping power; SRAM Guys are like, but it's more about the modulation. The F'ing modulation...🤣
I think brakes could be too powerfull. It all comes down to breaking traction, if your brakes make you slide, its just worse. But i think we are far from that, at least with the most common breaks you mentionned.
Interesting that the Hope V4s are similarly strong brakes but look one million times better. I'm not a fashionista by any stretch but holy crap those Maven calipers are ugly. Like, offensively ugly. That's the opinion to which I'm legally entitled, you're welcome to disagree. You're wrong, but you're welcome to disagree 🤣
I have AVID Codes from 2007 (yes, 2007).
Thy still have enough power with 203 mm rotors in my downhill bike.
Based on what OEM bikes have, looks like something like:
Codes R/RSC for Sram setups and XT and XTR (both with 4 pistons of course) for most Shimano setups...
With a 700+ gram pull to engagement stroke, SRAM cooked the 32% figures.
Unless you're braking like a Pro rider, arm pump is the game of the day.
I'm gonna put these on my XC bike
💀😬
And once again I am wondering why their brake and brakepads only seem to use a part of the brakediscs width of braking area. It looks like the HS2 discs have around 1.5mm of surface area on the inner edge that is not used for braking. I love the HS2 Sram discs on my Hope Tech4 brakes. The discs have around 15.5mm of width to brake on and the Tech4 covers 15mm of it.
its for heat dissipation
If they don't give a different bite point every time I grab the lever then I don't want nothing to do with them.😂
then you should buy shimano brakes
... and don't bleed them properly.
SRAM should just stick with developing drivetrains and leave the brakes to Shimano.
Hi , I have a SRAM code silver stealth and Shimano saint brakes , which one is better ? SRAM stealth or Shimano saint ?
I don’t care how “strong” they’re being advertised as they don’t even have a monoblock caliper design. Not to mention mineral oil is trash compared to dot 4. Just more bike industry garbage. These will be gone in a year or two.
Mineral oil, yay!
Thermal mass, there's a considerable miscomprehension going on there my dude... I'll let someone else type those paragraphs 🙄
If there is such a thing as too strong of a brake i am yet to experience it. I run DHR evos with saint pads and 223 mil rotors. But I am a particularly large woman who tends to ride steep trails.
I couldn't care less about the brakes honestly, I have a pair of code R and I'm fine but watching this guy is so funny how awkward he is!
If I can lock my current brakes out in any situation, then I don’t need more powerful brakes…. And i can.
Personally I think those brake levers look cheap. Dont think I'd put them on my bike.
Lots of review is saying that Arm pump is the worst with those brake, is that what you experienced?
I’m happy with my formula’s, i was never happy with any Sram brakes.
I'm curies what you guys used to get the numbers comparing force needed to reach max power between the Code and Maven at 1:24?
Are you wearing pink or lightish purple trousers?
I was wondering that too, good looking kit he's got.
It's purple, not barney purple but yeah it's purple
Lavender
Sram finally moving to mineral oil is good news for me. I like how they feel i just hate DOT fluid brakesets
As a product no I don’t think a brake can be too powerful.
But put it on the wrong bike and then yeah, 4 pot 220mm rotors on a short travel hardtail for example. (Assuming you’re not insane and riding downhills on it)
You end losing modulation and just lock the wheels up.
I hate my sram code RS. But can’t afford the XT brakes I want.
They better be strong to justify those looks only a mother could love... 🤮
Paging Seth’s Bike Hacks- time for another baby oil test….
This is good I was getting sick of seeing people selling their garbage Code Rs they ripped off their new bike, now we will see these things on Facebook marketplace instead! Thanks SRAM!
Sooo…. They’ve made their own shimano brakes 😂
Well... let's see how they hold up to their statement of the strongest brake out there compared to the Maxima.
Validating that others thought EVH immediately!!
There are no weak breaks, only to weak fingers 😅
If you have weak hands ok , if you don’t mind heavy ok , for me no.
can you compare them to Saints?
Bro science FTW
Theres that special one of a kind mineral oil again! Also the comment made in the lever having to be more in as to much lever play before the bite point is interesting especially being brand new
It's the same oil they use in porn scenes.
lol “start gently, just a pinky”.😮
no other mineral oil xaxaxxaaxxaax
Magura Gustav... it was something that came to mind
Why are they called maven? Sounds silly
Love my shimano mt 420 4 piston brakes. Works the way I need my brakes to work, right there when I need them, can drag or feather and bite hard on command.
Indeed. I have the M7120 four-pot SLX's in the front and two-pot M9100's in the rear and they work phenomenally. I usually say there's no such thing as too much braking power, but I rarely use any more than 30-40% of the lever stroke despite weighing nearly 100 kg.
Shimano and Magura oil are perfectly interchangeable and lots of third party companies offer mineral oil not specific for any company, even though all brake manufacturers tell us to only use their oil.
Hopefully someone with more knowledge of chemicals can chime in..
I changed my Xt and saint from Shimano mineral oil to putolite 2.5wt oil and it is a great improvement. Lighter lever action and no wandering bite point. I am sure that it is not recommended but is an internet “hack” that works great.
Likewater also works great, I use it in my Saints and it made the levers snap back faster in really cold weather.
Some points which I thought could use some more explanation.
Greater thermal mass not only makes them cool down slower, but also heat up slower. Overall, this usually keeps the temperature a bit lower and more consistent.
Flex in brake calipers(or the whole brake in general) reduces braking force by wasting energy to deform the caliper. A stiffer caliper therefore generally results in higher braking force with a less spongy feel.
Mineral oil has a lower boiling point compared to DOT 5.1, but as long as you stay below that you shouldn't feel any difference in performance. DOT 5.1 is hydroscopic, meaning it attracts water, which it will do even through brake lines from the moisture in the air. This decreases the boiling point over time and can also damage the brake if you don't change the fluid regularly.
Unless they used some super special seals...
[Edit]
Spoiler alert: Apparently they do!
...I don't see how using Shimano/Magura/TRP etc. mineral oil could damage the brake. But please don't experiment with your brakes unless you know what you're doing.
[Edit]
So please DO NOT use different brake fluid from what is recommended.
The Lost Co. has a nice more technical video about the whole brake for more infos.
My worry with this idea of higher thermal mass, is that the fundamentally, the rate of temperature rise in a block of material is a function of the surface to volume ratio and increases in volume (Which correlate to mass and therefore thermal mass) are not matched proportionally with the same increase in surface area (Which is the main path by which heat can leave the brake, though good thermal contact with an aluminium frame will provide an excellent conduction path to help cool the brake too, but all brakes get this - and brakes that run hot have been known to loosen the inserts for the brake mount threads on carbon frames, though hopefully not current models as carbon fibre is enough of an environmental disaster without further shortening its pre-landfill existence though bad design choices).
The quickest explanation of why this is not the amazing breakthrough SRAMs marketing weasels claim it is is to do some maths - the volume of a cube of side length x is x^3, its surface area is 6x^2. Double the side length of the cube and you're at 8x^3 and surface area of 24x^2, so now there's 8 times the thermal mass, but the area to dissipate heat from has only gone up by a factor of 4. This means that if these brakes do overheat you'll be waiting a long time for the temperature to drop.
By comparison, in the same conditions, a brake designed for a high thermal dissipation (Features like pad backings and a disk rotor core that are more conductive than standard steel, and fins to increase the surface area for heat loss for example), will be able to transfer far more energy from the brake and do it continuously all day without overheating, while also cooling much more quickly if it does overheat. At the risk of stating the obvious a high thermal mass almost always a high actual mass too - there is no mention of including phase change materials or any other method of increasing thermal mass without increasing actual mass, so I doubt they're doing anything interesting there.
Energy put into the brake that makes it flex will be stored like in a spring, but once nothing permanently deforms, it won't affect the peak power, just the brake feel at the lever. There are plenty of brakes where the max power is reached, as in pulling the lever further does not increase braking force, I've experienced it with cantilever brakes, Magura rim brakes and VBrakes back in the day and more recently - though still not all that recently - with 2 piston Shimanos on long and steep trails that are too dangerous to allow speed to build on, but this seems to be a overheating pad issue meaning they've hit their friction limit rather than braking energy loss to flex.
Shimano say their mineral oil has a higher boiling point than DOT fluid, and there's no reason this can't be true if you look up the properties of the fluids involved. High boiling point mineral oils certainly have a much higher boiling point than DOT fluid that's absorbed a small amount of water, which it always does over time. The correct word for this behaviour is hygroscopic incidentally.
The danger with mineral oil is where water does get into the brake (Though it's not drawn in, so very careless bike storage - like leaving it in a river or something - or a crack in unpressurised part of the brake reservoir that lets water in is what's needed there). Water doesn't mix with oil and is denser, so it collects in the lowest part of the brae, the caliper, and boils at the boiling point of water (100 degC at 1 atmosphere), which is way way lower than the boiling point of contaminated DOT fluid. The reason DOT fluid is used in motor vehicle brakes is mostly to do with how little maintenance is done on some cars, combined with the consequences of losing brakes on 2 tonnes of steel at 120 km/h for anyone around it.
It's a running joke in the bike industry how every company on mineral oil claims their oil is unique and completely incompatible with all other mineral oils. I've never heard of a brake failure due to mixing oils. I ran Citroen LHM (Hydraulic oil for their hydropneumatic suspension) in Maguras for nearly a decade in the late 90's with no issues. The problem here is that mineral oil has a basically infinite shelf life, so once you buy one overpriced bottle, you don't need to bin it every few years like with DOT fluid, so they have to make their money somehow.
@@peglor i see your point, but I don't think overheating was the problem they wanted to solve with the increase in thermal mass, but keep fluctuation of temperature low. High dissipation won't help if you constantly go in and out of your preferred temperature zone. That said, for mountain biking i'm not sure if there really is a temperature minimum you need to stay above of. I never had a disc brake that wouldn't bite before getting up to temperature. But then again all the the stuff shimano uses for temperature managment could be the reason why the bite point wanders around... hard to tell anything really without extensive testing.
@@a.r.8850 Shimano's wandering bite point is a result of them changing the amount of seal roll their brakes' caliper seals can do as the pistons move. As a side note, the pistons in a disk brake caliper do not normally slide in the seals when the brake is pulled (Except very occasionally to compensate for pad wear or when you lever them back before replacing pads for example), the piston movement is small enough that the seals are able to roll without sliding and still complete the small movement between the brake being off and on.
The springiness in the rolled piston seals helps to retract the pistons evenly when the lever is released. The stupid, awful, annoying, fiddly springs almost every manufacturer except Magura, the Hope trials brake and some of the Hayes brakes from the '90s) use between the pads are there to stop the pads rattling, not to help the pistons retract. You can confirm this yourself by removing those springs and you'll find there's no difference in brake feel or performance at all, but the brake pad rattle is even more annoying than the dealing with the springs themselves.
Shimano's idea was that designing their calipers to allow more seal roll would allow the pistons to pull back further when the lever is released, reducing or eliminating disk rub, getting real value from the servo wave mechanism in the lever which supports relatively longer caliper piston travel via its variable leverage ratio. The actual result was pretty much constant lazy piston behaviour from the brake, leading to the disk being flexed sideways when the brake is pulled rather than the pads moving evenly onto the disk.
It's easily fixed (Until pad wear causes it again) as follows. Remove the wheel and pull the lever 2 or 3 times and replace the wheel if the bite point is low. If this comes back quickly when you pull the brake a few times after replacing the wheel examine caliper closely as you pull the brake and you'll see the disk flexing to one side or the other instead of staying put with only one pad moving in the caliper.
Take a screwdriver or similar and wedge it against the caliper and the moving brake pad to stop the pad that's pushing the disk sideways from moving and pump the brake lever to push the pistons on the other side out, that'll usually get you a few decent spins worth of stable bite and takes a couple of minutes.
A longer term, but still temporary fix is to pump the pistons a decent bit out of the caliper (Don't remove them) and wiping the piston sidewalls with mineral oil before pushing them back in and cleaning as much oil as possible off everything before replacing the pads and putting it back on the disk. I solved it permanently by buying Maguras, which use magnet to stop the pads rattling, with the added benefit of never having to deal with those shitty springs between the pads ever again too.
@@a.r.8850 Any bike disk I've used has had plenty of power from dead cold - but I usually run organic pads, which heat faster because they're better thermal insulators, so the heat at the contact point of the rotor can't conduct out to the rest of the pad as quickly.
Another potential issue with high thermal mass brakes is their handling of wet conditions. Spraying a brake with water will cool it 2 to 3 orders of magnitude more effectively than just air does, so the higher thermal mass won't matter for holding heat in this case and the brake will still howl until it's dried the braking surface.
A high thermal mass brake may take longer to heat up enough to do this too, because you can only add energy at a fixed rate limited to the amount of grip you have for braking and the steepness of the terrain, but more heat is needed to get a given temperature increase.
@peglor ok that is a long reply 😄. Are you sure you actually mean "roll"? Because the seals are quad rings, they flex. Where do you have the information from that they allow for more flex? I don't see how a larger amount of allowed deflection might result in changing bite point during a descent, can you elaborate on that?
The price increase for 10 to 15% brake performance increase is laughable. These, to me are another waste of money for what you get.
Yet another product for the top 1% of freestyle riders that ride so steep downs that these might and I mean might justify the product.
Sram makes a powerful brake?
That has to to be the ugliest lever i have ever seen
When you have to de tune, yea they’re too strong.
dude seems genuinely scared of these brakes.
yessss I start with pinkie 200mm 😁
Too much chat, get to the brakes brah….
Can't wait to upload a video of me bumbling down some trails with these new brakes.
so much bs engineering wise in this video
Still love my Hayes Dominion A4 super smooth feeling and the lever has such a good feel to it no slop at all and they are super powerful
Hayes are great, theyre the best Ive ever used and work flawelessley. The sram brakes I have just went straight to the parts bin, these maybe a different build quality but well have to wait and see
Love hearing this!!!
Going into my second season on A4s. They’ve been fantastic. Great stopping power and awesome lever feel once it’s dialed in.
Hayes DA4 for me thanks!