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But seriously, no redundancy for losing entire parts of the plane? What if a whole wing just pops off? No backup for that either? Haha! You can account for every possible scenario, but the user-sorry, the pilot-will always find a way to make something fail… or, you know, the entire plane, for that matter.
@caimin15221522 the fact that ryanair by some miracle still haven't had a single casualy is crazy to me They literally are the most economic airline, cutting costs on everything. The fact that airfrance had infinitely more crushes and incidents then ryanair is crazy
2:23 seconds! OMG - no wonder they were having trouble concentrating and they didn’t realize the damage. Yes, mistakes were made, and they should have been calm, but it was too much in too little time, because they had less than 2:23 when everything happened. The planners of the airport also have take a lot of the blame!! Those poor guys. I was really able to follow what was going on - you are amazing. Thank you much :) 🌷🌱
Working in the medical field, I take solace that the human bodies generally give us more than a minute before they give out in emergencies, and even then it is possible to save them, but when it comes to aviation, the fact that pilots have barely a minute to make decisions in an emergency situation shows me *exactly* why there are so many policies, procedures, and training needed for flying. You pilots don't have that buffer space like we usually do in the medical field, and that is terrifying. You have my utmost respect, pilots.
Aerosucre's slogan: IF the aircraft is not overweight, it's not worth flying it. Also: Calculating take off thrust, is a waste of time... When in doubt, flat out! Always take off at 100% thrust!
In engineering we call this sort of thing 'tolerance stacking' when all the margins you allow yourself add up in one direction to an unexpected dimension.
At Reed Boardall Cold Storage, they call it "efficiency." Bent uprights, cracked uprights, holes in the warehouse floor, only using half as many bolts as the design specified, nuts and bolts and washers and whole light fittings falling out of structures, using one rack to push another because the motors have failed, missing "kick bars" so if a rack hits something or someone it'll just keep going, a little plastic shed over the battery chargers where the rain comes through the building roof and was falling onto them, engineers having to grind off the bolts where someone smashed a bollard, sending showers of sparks across giant lead-acid batteries being charged, fork lifts going full speed with pallets ten metres up in the air: "efficiency."
For those who don't know: Another term to use in some cases is "tolerance build up". This is when a design depends on a list of numbers each with its typical value and a tolerance for how far out from the typical it can be. It can happen that you get the unlucky combination which takes the design to its limit away from the typical total. In something like and aircraft you may have your flap angle setting of 30 degrees really only giving you 29.7 degrees, the engine thrust may be 2% below what you have set it for, the day may be hot making for thinner air and the overload may be a little more than you think it is. The result can be that a takeoff run that should be a bit shorter than the runway is effectively bit longer because all the numbers are on the bad side.
I remember a story a professor told us about 2 levels of engineering bosses who each doubled the AC requirement they were given to build in margin, after thr initial engineer doubled it to begin with. The result was a very cold office with 8x the necessary air conditioning 😂. So it goes both ways.
@@AustralianOpalRocks that's only a problem if they didn't consider the margins of the minimum setting of the aircon. An aircon system operating at 12% maintaining a comfortable temperature works fine. Might be a bit expensive, but you'll be glad of the extra capacity if you get hit by a heat wave. If it can't be set below 30% without turning it off entirely though...
Pedro Duarte was the Flight Engineer,he flew for Avianca around 20 and Aces, he was a flight simulator instructor for flight engineers at some point. I flew with him when I was a 727 f/o for one of those airlines. Nice guy and very knowledgeable. Aerosucre’s owner has allegedly bribed Colombian Civil Aviation authorities for decades and used also powerful political connections to allow his airline go unscathed. this is widely known in the Colombian aviation community.
Let's be realistic: That's the only explanation why they are still flying. No sane aviation regulator would allow them to continue operating. I mean...even some countries in AFRICA have banned them as a precaution 😂😂
@@skawel1 Yeti Airlines is sadly another example from the bottom of the aviation industry. Yes, Yeti Airlines flight 691 would be offer much lessons to learn. PIA had Petter already done, also TransAsia Airways, which is - hard to say, but true - fortunately out of business now.
@@NicolaW72 sadly Yeti Airlines is alive and kicking. The story of Yeti Airlines could or should also include the long fight for splitting national aviation authority (CAAN) into service provider and overseeing body (as suggested by ICAO and EU which black listed Nepali airlines in EU). Fascinating case how few ministers from different parties were taking off the aviation bill from parliament last minute to protect CAAN from splitting (and protect interests of those in CAAN, who benefit from lucrative contracts). All at expense of deteriorating safety travel in the country. Peter could explain well why service provider and overseeing body can't be the some organization and why separate ones are the norm in other countries. This is much deeper story, than just Pokhara airplane crash, but failure of system, biased and unprofessional reporting (blaming only pilots and weather, not management and procedures). And that's not some old story - it's current thing, the issue people in Nepal are fighting for against political set up).
@@skawel1 Yes, indeed, Yeti flight 691 is a big and important story - hopefully it will be picked up by Petter - and personally I would say, too: also as a "Mayday" episode to give him broader international public attention. It would be really worth to do so. But as mentioned: one thing to which it had no links is icing.
Anyone on aviation youtube has seen a infamous Aerosucre takeoff clip that barely clears the perimeter fence.. and this is how it inevitably ends. Safety rules are written in blood
Takeoff thrust is always maximum thrust with Aerosucre. Hey at least they won't ever have those input errors! They'll confidently overrun the runway with the engines trying their best.
Boeing always put roaring, extremely loud engines on their planes. Airbus has started to reverse that, the RollsRoyce Trent series on their widebodies and the CFM Leap engines that power their A320family are very much an improvement.
During safety training at my company it was emphasized several times that one of the key phrases to look for is “I’ve done it that way a thousand times”. This is a major flag that you are letting safety standards slip. It was identified by a group of ex-firefighters in Texas that had formed their own safety training company. They had gone through 30 years of accident investigations. When they focused on survivor interviews, they ran across this phrase over and over. In some cases, the survivors stated that their trainer had told them the safe way to do something, but then told them they could save time or effort by doing it in an unsafe manner and that they had “done it that way a thousand times”. In the case of this airline, it is obvious that this was a common phrase. If you ever hear someone use that phrase or think it to yourself, it is time to stop and reassess your behavior. Another thing they taught us is that humans are very bad at risk assessment. There is a simple formula and table based on game theory that does this very well though. If there had been a company officer tasked with risk assessment, this accident might not have ever happened. That is, if they could be troubled to actually perform that risk assessment.
@@PurelyCoincidental The training was in 2005, and I retired in 2018, so I don’t even remember their name, but the training they gave us has become industry standard in the oilfields. Nowadays, any OSHA 300 incident is enough to get contractors blacklisted. Much of this is driven by an incident on the Olympia platform in the North Sea. After Piper Alpha blew up, there was a big push for safety, but it was largely paid lip service in the day to day. When the gas turbine stack was blown up on Olympia, the English government put teeth in it. If you want to do business with the English oil industry, you have to comply with their safety standards throughout your company. This means you have to verify your vendors are also in compliance, which means their vendors have to be in compliance, which means everyone has to be in compliance to do any business in the industry. Turns out it saves money also, since the hidden costs of an incident far outweigh the cost of prevention. Makes it ironic that British Petroleum was responsible for Deepwater Horizon. I do have a vague memory of “Charlie Talks”. Charlie Morecraft was an incident survivor who had told investigators he had “done it that way a thousand times”. He barely survived his accident and went on to give safety lectures. You can find reference to him on the net. Perhaps this can point you in the right direction to look.
Thank You. I have stories about bad risk management. That is both bad safety risk management and bad financial risk management. And there being a general toxic work environment. These things do tend to go together. These are stories of a figurative thousand paper cuts with no major drama. Just lost contract bid and high employee turn over. I will not bore people with the stories. Please don't make the mistakes I made. If you find yourself in these types of situations get out of the situation.
Makes sense. When driving, I often think to myself that a thousand to one odds against an accident are actually pretty risky odds. Think of say how many left turns you rack up driving and you get to that thousand pretty quickly.
@@lewismartinez5130 Depending on where you drive, the odds of an accident while driving are probably better than 1000:1. In the US, the statistics on miles driven per accident are published by the government. Local traffic statistics are usually also published. By dividing the miles driven per accident by the number of automobiles per day on your usual route, you can get the number of days between accidents for that route. There are also statistics calculating the higher probability of accidents at intersections, so the number of intersections must be taken into account. Third, there are statistics on how much more likely an accident is for every 5 miles an hour over the speed limit people are traveling. BTW, traveling at 10 mph over the speed limit for 45 miles only saves you 4.5 minutes, but significantly increases the severity of an accident. Not worth it, but if everyone else is doing it, it becomes dangerous to drive the speed limit (plus, around here, a road rager is likely to pop a cap in your ass!). Before I retired, most of us drove a 45 mile length of highway with 18 intersections, an average speed of 65 in a 55 mph zone, about 3 times the traffic than the highway was designed for, an average of one accident every 4 days, and 1 fatal accident every 6 months. It had a reputation of being a very dangerous highway. We were fortunate enough to have one employee who was a math wiz, and another who was a semi-professional gambler. With their assistance and about 2 weeks of arguing we were able to calculate a reasonable probability of one of us getting into an accident. (Don’t ask for the formula, I don’t remember, and it covered most of a page in an Excel file). Since risk assessment is probability x severity, we were then able to do an assessment. When we did the risk assessment, it was right on the edge of being unacceptable. After analyzing methods of reducing the risk, we noticed that most accidents happened because all of the oilfields (about 16 different companies) changed shift around the same time, causing three separate “surges” of heavy traffic that each lasted around 2 hours. By changing to non-standard shift rotations we reduced the risk greatly. A necessary but often neglected step after any assessment is to make sure your mitigation strategy worked and didn’t create other problems. We had changed the rotations to 2 AM, 10 AM, and 6 PM. During the followup interviews, we found that other oilfield workers on 12 hour shifts rotated around 6 PM, and there had been one near miss with a drunk since the bars closed at 2 AM. We rolled our rotations forward 1 hour and on the next followup there were no complaints. Of course the problem with probabilities is they aren’t set in stone. Just because the probabilities say 1 in a million doesn’t mean it wont happen in the first 100. One month after the assessment was finalized, one of our employees was killed at 3:30 AM in a head on collision. The other guy was working two jobs, had just finished an (ill advised) double shift, and fell asleep behind the wheel despite being stuffed to the gills on methamphetamine. Life is what happens when you are making other plans. His company was blacklisted for an inadequate drug testing program. Things like this is why the safety margins spoken of in the video are so important. We had already done another risk assessment that caused us to implement a policy that no employee could work more than 14 hours in every 24, and no more than 6 days a week. After this accident we expanded that instruction to state that this included if they were working multiple jobs, including jobs for other employers. Violation of this rule without approval from your supervisor (which you weren’t going to get, since they could go to jail if something happened) was grounds for immediate termination. Less than a year later, that policy had been adopted by most of the oil companies and their vendors and contractors in this area. I imagine it has spread to other oil producing regions since. In the old days (late 80’s), it was common that nobody cared if you worked triple shifts. The safety statistics reflect this. After an accountant sat down and (cold bloodedly) calculated the hidden costs of a lost time accident, compared to the time and money it took to do more than pay lip service to safety, the executives sat up and took notice. The safety culture went from “just get the job done” to “if you don’t take all necessary precautions we will fire you” in just a few years. It is a pain in the butt, and requires a whole separate department, but I retired alive, with all my fingers and toes, and only age related health problems. Worth it. It is pretty plain that this particular airline hasn’t been exposed to any of this type of info. Especially the hidden cost assessment.
So sad. There are comments about "well it's Aerosucre" but I was with an airline with an L100-30, L188, DC8 and B727 fleet in the '80s and early '90s in Africa. We lost several aircraft, mostly to hostile actors or mechanical failure, and our crews saved a bunch more. It's an entitely different aviation world. I remember flying jumpseat into an airport at night with no ATC radar in a thunderstorm and the runway was in sight only at 300' and 1/2 a mile (NO ALTERNATES) and our 65+yo captain with 18,000 hours kissed the threshold like a baby.
Its impressive until it becomes tragic, and then it's obviously dangerous. Hopefully over time we won't have to make these trolley problem decisions between the deaths of pilots and the survival of remote towns.
I use to be scared of flying, now after watching nearly every single one of your videos over the last 6 months, it’s crazy how much has to go wrong to end up in a particular situation like these. Thanks for making my mind safe for flying :)
I can't believe it took this long for an Aerosucre flight to be featured on this channel. They basically have content weekly of dangerous flights and malpractice of piloting!
I mean it's a channel primarily about learning from these disasters, if we're all just going to shake our head and exclaim pilot/organisational error there's not much to get from that
@@ImperialJustinian they actually don't have that excuse. It's pretty same situation as in Colombia - chasing profit while flouting safety procedures with help of national gov. oversight agency and blaming all on pilots and airspace. Hiding reports from public, not implementing any safety recommendations (including those made by international organizations), honing unbelievable unprofessionalism in management, among staff while telling old story about unforgiving terrain. Nobody in Nepal believes in that excuse anymore..
I had to smile a little to myself in Australian when you posed your question to the audience about airline safety record, while showing footage of Qantas aircraft. If there is one thing Qantas isn't shy about telling their customers, is their history of never having a fatal crash. Given how old they are as an airline, I suspect this has more to do with dumb luck in those early decades than their modern safety standards.
Quantas have also spent millions on planes to fix them so that they can say they never lost a plane to a crash. They spent more than the plane is worth in some cases.
Was going to post this but decided to check comments first. 3 min of aviation seems to have Aerosucre featured every 2nd or 3rd episode. Usually captioned something like "overloaded plane struggles to climb" or "Overloaded plane barely gets airborne in time".
I am Colombian and live in Barranquilla, the birthplace of Aerosucre, and this video basically describes 99% of everything that happens in Colombia. It's like a perfect cultural cocktail of stupidity, incompetence, corruption, and carelessness. Standards here are so low it's kind of a miracle that anything functions at all.
Here in Canada, we've erred in the other direction. Our bureaucrats have a reign of a million bylaws to kill all fun and delay all work. Case in point: in BC, regular pubs & bars are not allowed to let patrons dance to live music. You need a special 'cabaret' bar license for that. Imagine telling someone from Colombia, "dancing not allowed'!
@@markus717 Add years of civil war, drug production a main source of income for many, and the idea that it doesn't matter if we cross the law, as long as bribes were paid, and you get the difference between corruption in Canada and in Columbia. The tragedy is, Laws of Nature can't be bribed even by airine owners.
The thing is, I don't really forgive the pilots for their lax attitude. There is this thing that isn't always fashionable these days called "Personal integrity". These pilots, before they even got out of 2 seat trainers, would have HAD to know the importance of weight and balance, runway length, etc. I understand peer pressure and all that, but still.
Honestly I always say something like "Integrity is nice in a pilot but I can live without it. I'm not so sure I can live if the pilot has no risk assessment. So If I have to pick one or the other I'd take the pilot who likes being alive and will do all in their power to keep it that way."
@@PRH123 An Airline who´s unable to provide minimum safety standards, including properly trained pilots, should be shutted down by the regulator - for the sake of human lifes.
I'm trying to focus my mind on what it is to be an Aerosucre flight crew and knowing that I have to be 100% correct on my every decision because there are likely no margins of safety at all and certainly no corporate backup to ensure safety.
@thewhitefalcon8539 Capitalism by definition has no safety net (for the poor. The rich has TOOOOOOONS of safety nets) Safety nets in a capitalistic society is just socialist policies implemented by the government.
It's not all bad here in Colombia guys... yes we have Aerosucre... but also, Avianca, our flag carrier, second oldest airline in the world, founded on the same year as KLM.
Avianca had several near misses and crashes. And as everything in that country, it sucks as service and punctuality. Copa is way better. Colombian airlines are a bad punchline in a terrible joke.
Hey, it was an Airbus. They've been building all the smarts they could into the aircraft since at least the first A320. Imagine envelope protection, bank angle protection, etc. And yes, there was a crash on an early demo flight with the A320 after they had flown a low pass and the plane refused to pull up because they were too slow.
Aerosucre is a Colombian cargo carrier with criminal behavior and suicidal crews that can still risk the innocent peoples life thanks to the mediocrity or corruption of the government authorities. As simple as that. If they continue flying the possibilities of a tragedy taking of over a city is huge.
@@donaldwinsor5791 I don´'t have a cristal ball, but last 11 of novembre one of their 727s destroyed the ILS antenna of SKBO taking off at the last second and struggling to fly over a 8 millon habitants city to land again with the airplane seriously damaged. .... Aerosucre did it again fortunately withot killing people.
Hmm.. the context of the country being in civil was and poor infrastructure and Aerosucre basucally providing a vital service despite its poor standards (in our eyes) is quite an eye-opener. We laugh at them, but if the real truth is not as much "corporate greed" but "it's this or hunger/poverty for hundreds of people", then it's different. Reminds me of a story from one of the post-communist countries - a state inspection closed down a primary school because of some bureaucratic hygiene-related reason (like, they did not have the proper amount of toilets for the number of pupils as required by the norms, or something like that)... However, for most of the kids (it was in one of the poorest regions of the country) the school had been THE place where they did their only proper hygiene... (like, the school had running water, they brushed their teeth there in the morning... the school had some soap in there as well which they used... while at homes they had maybe an outhouse and a bathing in a lake/river or something). So this caused quite an outrage against the bureaucrats. So yeah, while adhering to standards and regulations is definitely better than not doing so, we need to consider the people and regions who may be thankful to have at least some service, be it a substandar school building, or substandard airline operator... We often laugh at Aerosucre. Perhaps we should pity them (the pilots and the people there) instead.
Could be. However, if it is true, as others here claim, that Aerosucre's owner used bribes and political connections to keep the airline flying, then they are making money off of it, likely a lot of money. So their motivations may not be quite as noble. Still, if they provide a vital service no "serious" airline can or will provide, then just shutting them down is not a great option either...
Colombian here, too. It is true that the colombian aviation industry was born due to necessity and lack of basic infrastructure. That is the reason why Avianca is the second oldest airline in the world: basic necessity. However, this is not just a simple civil war of State vs some group. It has been an incredibly complex network of actors with their economic, political and personal interests which has crept up through illegal economy and official political spheres. The owners of Aerosucre are far from innocent, as they, too, have seeked profit from the regulatory and general chaos. I reckon the reason Aerosucre is still up is because they do still provide a basic service no other airline has taken up, and I am not sure anyone will do it anytime soon.
@@LillaIgelkotten Yes, I did not mean to imply that the owners of Aerosucre are angels doing it from the pure goodness of his heart. I don't know anything about them, and I suppose that some level of corruption and greed is there (as other commenters have mentioned about the bribes etc...). I was partially talking about the pilots (like, we make fun of them on the internet, but some of them might not be as careless (and part-of the greed-machine) as we think; they may simply be trying their best in the conditions they have, maybe they are praying too before each flight, knowing that they are pushing the limits of the swiss cheese...). And partially about the authorities, who may be more reluctant to shut the airline down, if they know that it would create more problems for the people who rely on the transport services... Yes, I mentioned that it might not be that much "corporate greed", perhaps I could have explained it better. But you know, when you learn new information and are still processing it, the thought evolves as it goes along... (and I typed that whole paragraph on my phone, so I did not see it in its entirety when I finished, lol :D)
@@MentourPilotIt was absolutely fantastic! It’s a shame there was a loss of life… but at least the mechanic made it! Cautionary tale indeed… Thanks so much for the analysis and all the effort you and your team put into your content! Your guys produce some of the highest quality educational and entertaining content on the platform and I am so grateful to be able to enjoy it!
8:32 "at which point, Aerosucre bought it and reregistered it in Colombia, possibly to replace one of the company's other 727s that had crashed a year earlier" This line made me laugh out loud. It's part of the natural lifecycle of every airliner: a long service life followed by being bought by Aerosucre and then crashed.
This one starts with a 'Yikes!' and gets 'Yikes-ier' by the second. Also, I've checked 'plane spotting' off my list of things to do when bored. As an aside, every one of your videos inspires me to take better care of even the most mundane daily activities, and I am grateful.
Plane spotting can be a safe hobby, it just depends on where you stand. Standing on the extended centerline (or close to it) feels cool but the pictures are mostly shit. Standing a few hundred meters abeam the touchdown zone is much better. Doing this in most western countries is about as close to 100% safe as it gets. Any trip on a road is worse.
The thought of airlines pilots losing situational awareness and causing a deadly crash scares the heck out of me. Just last summer, me and my wife was on a voletea flight from paris orly to lourde tarbe. It was an a320. The flight was supposed to be 57 minutes but we were stuck in a holding pattern for an hour and 30 minutes on arrival. Afterwards the pilots tried to land but all of the sudden they yanked the nose all the way up. We were going on a steep climb and we were pinned to our seats. I could not move my body. And he would pull the nose down and and up again with the engine at full thrust. I thought we were gonna end up crashing like fly dubai 981. But luckily the pilot landed on the second approach attempt. But it was nerve racking. My wife later Joked that our flight almost became another mentour pilot episode. Lol.
I am actually surprised that any / all 727's were / are in operation anywhere... The last time I flew on the 727 was "CON-AIR" in 99'. We actually entered the rear stairs due to the obvious considerations... No air stairs on the tarmac.. Just US Marshals with shotguns and M4's, and a bunch of unhappy passengers.. I have a tiny bit of an affinity for the 727.. NOT what I'd want to fly today.. I just thought the last of the 27's were in use to ferry prisoners... D.B. Cooper likely would have been disappointed... Always great coverage, Mentour Pilot!
for the editor (the video one): GOOD JOB!!! Not only for this video, all of them, nobody says anything about the editor, I felt that is needed to say that is good about what is happening on the editing part.The music, the recordings from the whatever simulator, the timings, everything, good. Just works.HUUUGE LIKE
I have engineering friends working in Aerosucre today, and something that we used to joke about the copmany, before they entered there, was that they would lose all their fleet in crashes rather than age or airworthiness. Now they're adamant that the company has change substantially and that they avoid committing those mistakes ... and the fact that they invested on newer aircraft and that my friends are working their asses off in maintenance, to me it's saying something.
I have to wonder if they DID calculate out the correct speeds. As pointed out the V1 was likely supposed to be 122. They Captain was calling out 23 (very close) and the FO corrected him to 127 (25 degree card settings). It think it was at this point the last chance to avoid an issue was passed, as the captain should have confirmed "127? I thought we had determined 123 for flaps 30 at our weight". But he took the 127 as religiously and .. presto.
And your local postage service provides all the logistics needed to get anything you want without leaving your house... it's a new world and humans will always adapt to the environment to get what they need. I know a guy well who used to work for the Australian Federal Police and then Interpol and now he's an academic who studies the supply chains of illicit products. He said to me once, "trying to stop the flow with force, is like trying to empty a river with a soup ladle and a bucket. That's how much gets stopped from getting where it's going to go." Dealing with the issues that cause the demand, will always be a better investment than punishing those who take advantage of opportunities to meet the demands. Food for thought.
But that almost never happens, government agencies refuse to tackle the problems at their root cause. Or maybe a lot of good people are working there, but they're understaffed, their budgets get constantly cut and nobody really values their hard work. So even the really dedicated ones burn out fast. And the criminals called "politicians" often are entangled in the world of organised crime. A vicious circle.
@@C.Fecteau-AU-MJ13 the problem is that not all the sources of demand are "solvable". Sure lots of demand is a symptom of addiction, depression, poverty, poor education etc which can all be alleviated by government action (at least in theory), but some demand is just people with enough money who know the health implications and on balance still want the feeling the stuff provides. I don't see how a government can remove that source of demand, other than by applying an additional down side to the equation (legal consequences if caught). Any approach to stopping the illegal drug trade that does not involve using force has to include an element of legalisation, or else the illegal drug trade will continue. And we've seen over decades of trying that force doesn't seem to be able to stop it either. Or at least not the level of force that our society is willing to sanction. It may reduce the trade somewhat, but there are always people willing to take the risk for great rewards, and you can't catch them all.
What I'm writing here I swear is totally true, tat day I was giving training to a new worker, in a coffee break I scroll down the news and said "an Airplane has just crashed" she was immediately alarmed and said where? I figured she was worried about someone flying right in that moment so to calm her up I said, "no worries, it is in Puerto Carreño" as I knew that was somehow far, and she replied "my cousin is flying from Puerto Carreño" and bursted to tears, I didn't know how to calm her down so I read more and said: "no worries, just crew members died and then she told me" my cousin is the Copilot!!!!" screaming and sobbing even more, after auroud one hour she discovered her cousin was taken from that flight out and was safe, but man that was awkward.
LOL - I decided to look up "Aerosucre" on UA-cam. Wow. Just two days ago a 727, flight 372, struck the localizer at the end of a 2300 meter runway in Bogata. What are the chances? Good, apparently.
I mean it's Colombia, it's corrupt as hell so it's not really surprising me when I hear stuff like "carrying of undocumented passengers" and general lack of information on employees, the fact they're boarding personal connections is enough for me. It's sadly didn't surprise me to hear what happened to this flight and sadly I'm not convinced the next one will be far away. Really sad.
This is why oversight (enforcement) and a good safety culture are important. It is also why I would not be concerned about safety if I were to fly with Mentours (former?) employer: whenever I have delivered papers in the cockpit (including weight and balance that I calculated), there was always a professional attitude with high regard for safety. As it was for most airlines that I dealt with. I have also dealt with airlines where I made a personal note that "neither myself nor anyone I know should ever fly with this airline as long as I can help it" because it seemed to me that their pilots lacked a good attitude to safety. Thankfully, I haven't heard about any serious incidents with these airlines, and the ones that worried me the most are no longer active.
While in recurrent training in the 727, a check airman gave me a very similar scenario, essentially replication the DC-10 Sioux City crash. Number three engine out and failed hydraulics. Sure enough the unthinkable happened, she started to roll over until, like a hand reaching through the darkness and cobwebs, the thought occurred to me to activate the standby rudder switch at which point control was reacquired and things got better in a hurry. Unlike this accident we were in a simulator, flaps 15 and the check airman had waited until the wheels were in the wells to start the drill. A couple of take aways. Airlines almost never train compound emergencies unless the crew makes them so. To prevent vengeful managers from attempting to overload an unpopular pilot and fire them, most unions have outlawed multiple simultaneous emergencies in training. Which makes it improbable that responses beyond the rote set of problems will take place. As alluded to, the use of the standby rudder is at the end of a long checklist intended for completely different circumstances. Unfortunately, most operators are not permitted to push the envelope and expand training beyond the approved norms. From personal experience, the unique challenge and overcoming the same was invigorating beyond belief. Like getting doused by a bucket of ice water.
Thank you for the video! And thanks for covering this madhouse of an airline. The culture of bypassing rules and regulations in Colombia is so ingrained (we're lovely!) that not a single thing in this video surprises me. Maybe the lowering the landing gear decision, that one was unexpected.
Which are the safest and most dangerous airlines? All airlines are forced to comply with the same rules... "Ah okay Aerosucre and Pakistain International Airlines......" (Kind of a joke, definitely personal opinion)... It's not quite true that all airlines follow the same rules - it depends where they operate and also many airlines exceed the mandatory requirements.... (buy some that don't too....) The story of the owner getting awards, lots of thigns not being checked - sounds like there was a considerable amount of bribery/corruption etc. going on, for a columbian cargo airline you can extrapolate why....
And here I thought Garuda was the worst airline! Garuda, you have not lived until you experience a 747 stretch make a hard landing causing the front to snap down hard and then entire plane bounce up like it's a Cessna with a trainee pilot, and then finally collect itself and make the roughest landing you have ever experienced. Kudos to 1999 Boeing, I thought the front landing gear would snap on that first hit. Also, thanks to a long runway at Jakarta, we sure needed it.
I am no way connected to Airline / aerospace industry. But I watch these two channels for the illustration of professionalism, problem solving and the complexities involved in what caused a crisis. This helps me improve my critical reasoning and be a better professional in solving issues in the industry I work at. Cheers!
Usually I have atleast a decent knowledge of an accident before the video, but with Aerosucre it can any of atleast a dozen incidents. I have seen so many videos of their aircraft barely making it off the runway, that i wonder how they are still allowed to operate.
I am 72 and still working as a software engineer. While there’s a world of difference between being a flight engineer, it does indicate that age is not necessarily an indicator of incapacity. Individuals should be evaluated on their individual skills and abilities.
I agree, but the regulations are in place becouse it is too aexensive and time consuming to examine everyone individually so the age cutoff is placed when the average person will experience notable effects from their age
I I really liked this episode and think it was very important that you covered this terrifying story because this kind of behavior has to be shown to the world to put clear that by doing shortcuts and not following the rules you can skip having an accident but that doesnt mean it will never happen. I also want to suggest you to cover an incident that happened back in 2003 when a DHL A300 cargo flight 209 suffered an attack from the ground been reached by a misile from terrorists and the crew managed to land the plane safelly with a very damaged wing and full loss of hydralics so they could only barelly control the aircraft with the engines. I think it was a true heroic act by the pilots, a good example of importance of the CRM and a masterpiece of aviator mind that had never been trained for such scenario. Hope you cover it some time. Thank you for the hard work you and your team put in the videos. They are all awesome and not only for aviation enthusiasts but for enyone else that wants to know the importance of how a safety culture and responsability at any kind of job makes a better and safer world.
Halo. Please make a video about Polish flight LO 5055 Warsaw - New York IL-62M SP-LBG "Tadeusz Kościuszko" Deadliest air disaster in Polish History. Thank you
There was also interesting accident in a Katowice, when they hit multiple ILS antennas, but they didn't know that until they left the plane. Somewhere I have pdf with report from investigation, but it will be difficult for me to find it.
As a viewer, I really appreciate how you do not sensationalize your accident video's. A good case study in the phenomenon of the "normalization of deviation". One thing worth mentioning, is that a lack of rudder meant the flying pilot must use more aileron input to hold wings level. All jet transports, to my knowledge, use some of the spoilers in flight for roll control. In Boeings, this is only a few degrees. Any roll inputs beyond 5deg of roll will begin putting flight spoilers up on the high wing. The flight spoilers would have dramatically affected the stall speed of the left wing.
Well narrated incident and nicely done. Being a biomedical engineer, working on medical devices and implants, concept of design margin for safety and reliability, and the importance of working under regulated environments is part of my life. Tragedy and loss from cumulative stacking up of ignorance and non-adherence to rule and regulations, followed by lack of room for human error, sadly amounts of lots of such incidents in all sectors. Good take away and learning for all. People have to be self-informed and obey rules for the society to perform smoothly.
Yeah sure. Whatever. Because trusting your security to some sketchy VPN company based on, essentially, the lie that your ISP "can read all your data", is so much better. I don't blame creators for taking the money. Most don't know enough to know VPNs are 99% worthless, but everybody getting mad about Betterhelp and ignoring the scores of other sketchy advertising going on, drives me slightly mad.
I was disappointed in that. They're a good resource, and he let you bully him into that. Would have prefered him to stand his ground. It's not up to you who he chooses as a sponser, and I personally would have have rather seen him stand his ground, not give into bullies.
@@Julia-nl3gq I get where you're coming from, but I think it's important for creators to listen to their audience's concerns too. While BetterHelp can be helpful for some, there have been a lot of issues raised about their practices, and that’s why so many viewers were upset. Personally, I didn’t have the best experience with them either, so I can understand why people would feel strongly. In the end, it's his choice, but it's tough to stand by something the community feels conflicted about cheers!
@@Julia-nl3gq You must not have anything in your background that requires in-depth therapy over a period of years. BetterHelp's standards aren't very good, their therapists are overscheduled, and their billing is more expensive than most local therapists as well as more difficult to get them to stop billing you once you've realized the therapists they hook you up with are generally below average. Not saying a below average therapist can't help someone who's struggling with something relatively common like the death of an aged parent or impostor syndrome, but BetterHelp could go through recommending 20 therapists for a client trying to recover from an eating disorder stemming from childhood trauma and abusive adult relationships and never find anyone good enough to help that client. They're the equivalent of an urgent care, not a hospital that can cope with longer-term stays, and they're certainly not equipped for emotional wounds that are the equivalent of needing a trauma center's ER services.
I was living in Costa Rica in the mid-1980s. I remember one day I was driving on the motorway from Alajuela to San José, on a stretch that touches on the airport. There was an AeroSucre Caravelle in the tarmac that astonished me; so much as to recall the incident vividly four decades later. The Caravelle's front gear was up in the air and the tail part touching the ground. Later on I read in the newspaper that the cargo had become losen upon landing and when the aircraft stopped the weight made the plane to flip.
They just did it again. Another B 727-200F struck today (November 11th, 2024) the localizer antena at El Dorado Airport in Bogota at departure 300 metres behind the end of the 3800 metres long runway. In opposite to Aerosucre Flight 157 this aircraft (HK-5216) was able to make it back to the airport. Yes, so much about improvement at Aerosuce.🤕
Apart of everyone making a lot of fun about the reliable stream of (luckily mostly benign) Aerosucre mishaps constantly filling YT plane-related videos - it's both pathetic and tragic that they serve such an important role with such an attitude of negligence.
It seems to me that it's cause and effect. They're irreplaceable so they can fail to comply with whatever and they'll still operate. If they're constantly overweight, the need for moving cargo is actually bigger than what they can provide.
I live in Bogotá, somewhat near the departure path of SKBO. Every day, I know it's time to go to sleep because an Aerosucre 727 takes off around 11 p.m., making a lot of noise. I have complained to Aerocivil because the noise from the airplane is so loud that it sets off car alarms. But as of today, I still have this 11 p.m. alarm.
2:23 seconds! OMG - no wonder they were having trouble concentrating and they didn’t realize the damage. Yes, mistakes were made, and they should have been calm, but it was too much in too little time, because they had less than 2:23 when everything happened. The planners of the airport also have take a lot of the blame!! Those poor guys. I was really able to follow what was going on - you are amazing. Thank you much :) 🌷🌱
Flight engineer inconveniently quiet during this. In a three crew aircraft, isn’t their job to worry about the hydraulics and missing appendages, and merely advise the flight crew on what they can and cannot do any more? As you said, there was a rudder standby system, front and centre. This man had one job. Apparently at AeroSucre, CRM means “Can’t rationalize movements”.
I'm more shocked the captain didn't rotate properly.... At least that was an action he'd done on every single flight before, instead of a pensioner finding that one crucial button that he probably had never needed in his entire career.
@@MrNicoJacif u watch aerosure take offs on UA-cam, you will see that usually they do take off at a low angle then raise gear and fly straight for a while, basically using ground effect to get airborne, then they climb. This is probably due to unrecorded overloading of the aircraft
@@LongdownConker Good point! - Thank you very much. I had questioned this to myself, too. Probably this specific Captain hadn´t realized that he had already eaten up his safety margins and had no space left over for his usual way of take-off with overload.
@@LongdownConkergiven freight is billed by both weight and volume, either there have to be two sets of bills (like the two logbooks we all used to run), or they’ve really been shorted on shipping costs. Usually billing would have the correct bills, and the crew would have the wrong bills, so they can depart legally.
When an airline's problem is so infamous that it has a kind of "meme status" on the internet, you know it's bad (but of course, they'll keep doing it and downplaying it for as long as possible to maximise profit). For Ryanair, it's how they come down too hard; for Aerosucre, it's how they go up too soft.
The failure of the safety culture in an organization is the normalization of risks…until an incident happens. Very well concluded. Great video. Thank you.
Excellent point about small policies and procedures being ignored is a sign of big problems to come. I work for a new local company that is buying back a dairy plant from a national company. Some of our employees used to be employees of the plant before the big company bought it and during the early years of the big company owning it, but they've been away working for other companies for several years now. They say the culture and procedures we're seeing now in the plant are very lax compared to what used to be, and sure enough, the plant's current owners are rooting out the cause of a quality issue with one of the products that has to be due to an in-plant process.
Great video, as always! :3 Tl;Dr: Thanks for explaining why being "knit-picky" in aviation is important! :) The explanation from 12:33 ff. about the safety margins in *every* part of the operation was especially enlightening! Technically there wasn't anything new being said compared to past videos, but in the past I've been thinking "wait, isn't this criticism a little knit-picky?" about several points you raised which appeared small to me. I NOW understand that this alertness towards even the minutest of errors is part of the safety precautions which make aviation so statistically safe. (...I suppose statistics is really the best way to see it: Undertaking a gigantic effort to lower the incident probability to LITERALY ZERO!)
Petter - as always - both excellent explanations and excellent conclusions !!! Especially the conclusion at the very end on "safety culture" is a very good one ! Although I'm not in the airline industry this applies to any domain dealing with safety for sure ! In any case this is more vital for aeronautics than it is for other non-3D domains.
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@MentourPilot at approx the 4:15 mark, "sundries" is pronounced "sun-dreez". Hope this is helpful, my friend!" Great work, as always!
Please do DHL 611 and BTC 2937 mid air collision 💥
Aero "not so" sweet...
I like those transition to sponsor better than those "fake interruption" thing you did for a fair few previous videos
But seriously, no redundancy for losing entire parts of the plane? What if a whole wing just pops off? No backup for that either? Haha!
You can account for every possible scenario, but the user-sorry, the pilot-will always find a way to make something fail… or, you know, the entire plane, for that matter.
You know an airline is problematic if they've never flown a passenger flight but have at least been responsible for the death of 20 passengers.
How much did they pay in bribes in order to continue operating after all of this, I wonder
They've had 20 more passenger fatalities than Ryanair, the third largest airline by passengers flown....
@caimin15221522 the fact that ryanair by some miracle still haven't had a single casualy is crazy to me
They literally are the most economic airline, cutting costs on everything.
The fact that airfrance had infinitely more crushes and incidents then ryanair is crazy
@@olm8829 In a country where they are the only lifeline for many businesses and communities? Zero.
@@shawnpitman876
Another commenter disagrees, claiming bribery from the company was very common and well known.
Given their history of skimming the ground on takeoff, they should have had a "hit tree on takeoff" checklist with memory items :/
"We missed the trees!" "Should we go around?"
@@ronjones-6977 😂🤣😅
2:23 seconds! OMG - no wonder they were having trouble concentrating and they didn’t realize the damage. Yes, mistakes were made, and they should have been calm, but it was too much in too little time, because they had less than 2:23 when everything happened. The planners of the airport also have take a lot of the blame!! Those poor guys.
I was really able to follow what was going on - you are amazing. Thank you much :) 🌷🌱
This comment is gold. 🤣
😂
Typical Aerosucre operations always involve a minimum of a full-length runway takeoff, a fence strike, and an engine flameout.
And don't forget taking off above max weight.
You forgot "grossly overloaded plane."
Let's be fair; their checklists only require ONE of these conditions.
Don’t forget the friends and family sitting on the floor in cargo.
Do not forget the unsecured load shifting the center of gravity mid take off, it is described in the Aerosuce pilot manual A 38.
Working in the medical field, I take solace that the human bodies generally give us more than a minute before they give out in emergencies, and even then it is possible to save them, but when it comes to aviation, the fact that pilots have barely a minute to make decisions in an emergency situation shows me *exactly* why there are so many policies, procedures, and training needed for flying. You pilots don't have that buffer space like we usually do in the medical field, and that is terrifying. You have my utmost respect, pilots.
Beautifully said Kaiya you are a lovely human being God richly bless you♥
Love you Kaiya Thanks so much for your reply❤
Aerosucre's slogan: IF the aircraft is not overweight, it's not worth flying it. Also: Calculating take off thrust, is a waste of time... When in doubt, flat out! Always take off at 100% thrust!
Now, Aerosucre's planes aren't your usual planes. These go up to 110% thrust.
We paid for the entire Runway, we use the entire Runway!
So true
@@oavdov Oh, up to 11 😂
@@unitrader403😂
In engineering we call this sort of thing 'tolerance stacking' when all the margins you allow yourself add up in one direction to an unexpected dimension.
At Reed Boardall Cold Storage, they call it "efficiency." Bent uprights, cracked uprights, holes in the warehouse floor, only using half as many bolts as the design specified, nuts and bolts and washers and whole light fittings falling out of structures, using one rack to push another because the motors have failed, missing "kick bars" so if a rack hits something or someone it'll just keep going, a little plastic shed over the battery chargers where the rain comes through the building roof and was falling onto them, engineers having to grind off the bolts where someone smashed a bollard, sending showers of sparks across giant lead-acid batteries being charged, fork lifts going full speed with pallets ten metres up in the air: "efficiency."
For those who don't know: Another term to use in some cases is "tolerance build up". This is when a design depends on a list of numbers each with its typical value and a tolerance for how far out from the typical it can be. It can happen that you get the unlucky combination which takes the design to its limit away from the typical total. In something like and aircraft you may have your flap angle setting of 30 degrees really only giving you 29.7 degrees, the engine thrust may be 2% below what you have set it for, the day may be hot making for thinner air and the overload may be a little more than you think it is. The result can be that a takeoff run that should be a bit shorter than the runway is effectively bit longer because all the numbers are on the bad side.
Aero Swisscheese.
I remember a story a professor told us about 2 levels of engineering bosses who each doubled the AC requirement they were given to build in margin, after thr initial engineer doubled it to begin with. The result was a very cold office with 8x the necessary air conditioning 😂. So it goes both ways.
@@AustralianOpalRocks that's only a problem if they didn't consider the margins of the minimum setting of the aircon. An aircon system operating at 12% maintaining a comfortable temperature works fine. Might be a bit expensive, but you'll be glad of the extra capacity if you get hit by a heat wave.
If it can't be set below 30% without turning it off entirely though...
ah yes aerosucre. he could do a 3 hour special on them.
Three part series....
fr
I love ur pfp
At 32:40 "Fly it gently amigo!" lol
Sweet.
Pedro Duarte was the Flight Engineer,he flew for Avianca around 20 and Aces, he was a flight simulator instructor for flight engineers at some point. I flew with him when I was a 727 f/o for one of those airlines. Nice guy and very knowledgeable. Aerosucre’s owner has allegedly bribed Colombian Civil Aviation authorities for decades and used also powerful political connections to allow his airline go unscathed. this is widely known in the Colombian aviation community.
20 years*
First I’ve heard that, but it doesn’t surprise me in the least
Let's be realistic: That's the only explanation why they are still flying. No sane aviation regulator would allow them to continue operating. I mean...even some countries in AFRICA have banned them as a precaution 😂😂
ACES S.A. was a wonderful airline.
They need to move that "agricultural product" with few questions asked, after all.
Aerosucre is a slap in the face to everything aviation has worked so hard to build.
Indeed - and that it is still up in the air.
try Yeti Airlines!
@@skawel1 Yeti Airlines is sadly another example from the bottom of the aviation industry. Yes, Yeti Airlines flight 691 would be offer much lessons to learn. PIA had Petter already done, also TransAsia Airways, which is - hard to say, but true - fortunately out of business now.
@@NicolaW72 sadly Yeti Airlines is alive and kicking. The story of Yeti Airlines could or should also include the long fight for splitting national aviation authority (CAAN) into service provider and overseeing body (as suggested by ICAO and EU which black listed Nepali airlines in EU). Fascinating case how few ministers from different parties were taking off the aviation bill from parliament last minute to protect CAAN from splitting (and protect interests of those in CAAN, who benefit from lucrative contracts). All at expense of deteriorating safety travel in the country.
Peter could explain well why service provider and overseeing body can't be the some organization and why separate ones are the norm in other countries.
This is much deeper story, than just Pokhara airplane crash, but failure of system, biased and unprofessional reporting (blaming only pilots and weather, not management and procedures). And that's not some old story - it's current thing, the issue people in Nepal are fighting for against political set up).
@@skawel1 Yes, indeed, Yeti flight 691 is a big and important story - hopefully it will be picked up by Petter - and personally I would say, too: also as a "Mayday" episode to give him broader international public attention. It would be really worth to do so.
But as mentioned: one thing to which it had no links is icing.
I've heard it said the only thing that allows these overloaded Aerosucre planes to get airborne is the curvature of the earth 😉
What comes around goes round 😊
😂😂😂
Anyone on aviation youtube has seen a infamous Aerosucre takeoff clip that barely clears the perimeter fence.. and this is how it inevitably ends. Safety rules are written in blood
Aerosucre SOP not only checks runway length but perimeter fence height.
Safety rules are for crybabies :D
Nah they just didn't follow didn't follow SOP which dictates 5m OVER the fence is fine not 5m BEHIND the fence
@@Dilley_G45 Every take off:
Pilot: Higher! Higer! We need to get higer!
Copilot: I can't sniff faster!
That's why...
Anyone on aviation UA-cam has seen dozens of clips of them skimming the perimeter fence.
As a Colombian, Aerosucre flights are immediately recognisable by their insanely loud overworked engines
1960's and '70's engines are always very loud. Even when new. No bypass to speak of.
Takeoff thrust is always maximum thrust with Aerosucre. Hey at least they won't ever have those input errors! They'll confidently overrun the runway with the engines trying their best.
Whenever all the windows in Bogotá get rattled, you know an Aerosucre 727 or Jurassic 737 has taken off!
Typical JT8D engines 🫠
Boeing always put roaring, extremely loud engines on their planes. Airbus has started to reverse that, the RollsRoyce Trent series on their widebodies and the CFM Leap engines that power their A320family are very much an improvement.
During safety training at my company it was emphasized several times that one of the key phrases to look for is “I’ve done it that way a thousand times”. This is a major flag that you are letting safety standards slip.
It was identified by a group of ex-firefighters in Texas that had formed their own safety training company. They had gone through 30 years of accident investigations.
When they focused on survivor interviews, they ran across this phrase over and over. In some cases, the survivors stated that their trainer had told them the safe way to do something, but then told them they could save time or effort by doing it in an unsafe manner and that they had “done it that way a thousand times”.
In the case of this airline, it is obvious that this was a common phrase. If you ever hear someone use that phrase or think it to yourself, it is time to stop and reassess your behavior.
Another thing they taught us is that humans are very bad at risk assessment. There is a simple formula and table based on game theory that does this very well though.
If there had been a company officer tasked with risk assessment, this accident might not have ever happened. That is, if they could be troubled to actually perform that risk assessment.
Did the safety training company publish any of their findings? Or is there at least a summary you can point me to? I'd love to read more about them.
@@PurelyCoincidental The training was in 2005, and I retired in 2018, so I don’t even remember their name, but the training they gave us has become industry standard in the oilfields.
Nowadays, any OSHA 300 incident is enough to get contractors blacklisted. Much of this is driven by an incident on the Olympia platform in the North Sea. After Piper Alpha blew up, there was a big push for safety, but it was largely paid lip service in the day to day. When the gas turbine stack was blown up on Olympia, the English government put teeth in it.
If you want to do business with the English oil industry, you have to comply with their safety standards throughout your company. This means you have to verify your vendors are also in compliance, which means their vendors have to be in compliance, which means everyone has to be in compliance to do any business in the industry.
Turns out it saves money also, since the hidden costs of an incident far outweigh the cost of prevention. Makes it ironic that British Petroleum was responsible for Deepwater Horizon.
I do have a vague memory of “Charlie Talks”. Charlie Morecraft was an incident survivor who had told investigators he had “done it that way a thousand times”. He barely survived his accident and went on to give safety lectures. You can find reference to him on the net. Perhaps this can point you in the right direction to look.
Thank You.
I have stories about bad risk management. That is both bad safety risk management and bad financial risk management. And there being a general toxic work environment. These things do tend to go together. These are stories of a figurative thousand paper cuts with no major drama. Just lost contract bid and high employee turn over. I will not bore people with the stories.
Please don't make the mistakes I made. If you find yourself in these types of situations get out of the situation.
Makes sense. When driving, I often think to myself that a thousand to one odds against an accident are actually pretty risky odds. Think of say how many left turns you rack up driving and you get to that thousand pretty quickly.
@@lewismartinez5130 Depending on where you drive, the odds of an accident while driving are probably better than 1000:1.
In the US, the statistics on miles driven per accident are published by the government. Local traffic statistics are usually also published.
By dividing the miles driven per accident by the number of automobiles per day on your usual route, you can get the number of days between accidents for that route. There are also statistics calculating the higher probability of accidents at intersections, so the number of intersections must be taken into account. Third, there are statistics on how much more likely an accident is for every 5 miles an hour over the speed limit people are traveling.
BTW, traveling at 10 mph over the speed limit for 45 miles only saves you 4.5 minutes, but significantly increases the severity of an accident. Not worth it, but if everyone else is doing it, it becomes dangerous to drive the speed limit (plus, around here, a road rager is likely to pop a cap in your ass!).
Before I retired, most of us drove a 45 mile length of highway with 18 intersections, an average speed of 65 in a 55 mph zone, about 3 times the traffic than the highway was designed for, an average of one accident every 4 days, and 1 fatal accident every 6 months. It had a reputation of being a very dangerous highway.
We were fortunate enough to have one employee who was a math wiz, and another who was a semi-professional gambler. With their assistance and about 2 weeks of arguing we were able to calculate a reasonable probability of one of us getting into an accident. (Don’t ask for the formula, I don’t remember, and it covered most of a page in an Excel file). Since risk assessment is probability x severity, we were then able to do an assessment.
When we did the risk assessment, it was right on the edge of being unacceptable. After analyzing methods of reducing the risk, we noticed that most accidents happened because all of the oilfields (about 16 different companies) changed shift around the same time, causing three separate “surges” of heavy traffic that each lasted around 2 hours. By changing to non-standard shift rotations we reduced the risk greatly.
A necessary but often neglected step after any assessment is to make sure your mitigation strategy worked and didn’t create other problems.
We had changed the rotations to 2 AM, 10 AM, and 6 PM. During the followup interviews, we found that other oilfield workers on 12 hour shifts rotated around 6 PM, and there had been one near miss with a drunk since the bars closed at 2 AM. We rolled our rotations forward 1 hour and on the next followup there were no complaints.
Of course the problem with probabilities is they aren’t set in stone. Just because the probabilities say 1 in a million doesn’t mean it wont happen in the first 100. One month after the assessment was finalized, one of our employees was killed at 3:30 AM in a head on collision. The other guy was working two jobs, had just finished an (ill advised) double shift, and fell asleep behind the wheel despite being stuffed to the gills on methamphetamine. Life is what happens when you are making other plans. His company was blacklisted for an inadequate drug testing program. Things like this is why the safety margins spoken of in the video are so important.
We had already done another risk assessment that caused us to implement a policy that no employee could work more than 14 hours in every 24, and no more than 6 days a week.
After this accident we expanded that instruction to state that this included if they were working multiple jobs, including jobs for other employers. Violation of this rule without approval from your supervisor (which you weren’t going to get, since they could go to jail if something happened) was grounds for immediate termination.
Less than a year later, that policy had been adopted by most of the oil companies and their vendors and contractors in this area. I imagine it has spread to other oil producing regions since.
In the old days (late 80’s), it was common that nobody cared if you worked triple shifts. The safety statistics reflect this.
After an accountant sat down and (cold bloodedly) calculated the hidden costs of a lost time accident, compared to the time and money it took to do more than pay lip service to safety, the executives sat up and took notice. The safety culture went from “just get the job done” to “if you don’t take all necessary precautions we will fire you” in just a few years. It is a pain in the butt, and requires a whole separate department, but I retired alive, with all my fingers and toes, and only age related health problems. Worth it.
It is pretty plain that this particular airline hasn’t been exposed to any of this type of info. Especially the hidden cost assessment.
So sad. There are comments about "well it's Aerosucre" but I was with an airline with an L100-30, L188, DC8 and B727 fleet in the '80s and early '90s in Africa. We lost several aircraft, mostly to hostile actors or mechanical failure, and our crews saved a bunch more. It's an entitely different aviation world. I remember flying jumpseat into an airport at night with no ATC radar in a thunderstorm and the runway was in sight only at 300' and 1/2 a mile (NO ALTERNATES) and our 65+yo captain with 18,000 hours kissed the threshold like a baby.
That's both scary and impressive!
Yes, the harsh reality in karge parts of the world.
Flew with a guy in a Conquest who landed like that.
Its impressive until it becomes tragic, and then it's obviously dangerous. Hopefully over time we won't have to make these trolley problem decisions between the deaths of pilots and the survival of remote towns.
I use to be scared of flying, now after watching nearly every single one of your videos over the last 6 months, it’s crazy how much has to go wrong to end up in a particular situation like these. Thanks for making my mind safe for flying :)
I can't believe it took this long for an Aerosucre flight to be featured on this channel. They basically have content weekly of dangerous flights and malpractice of piloting!
I mean it's a channel primarily about learning from these disasters, if we're all just going to shake our head and exclaim pilot/organisational error there's not much to get from that
You can't even feel sad for them!
Another competitor would be Yeti Airlines from Nepal. Including recent crashes.
@@skawel1 Yeti Airlines at least has the excuse that they are flying around Nepal. That is not always forgiving airspace.
@@ImperialJustinian they actually don't have that excuse. It's pretty same situation as in Colombia - chasing profit while flouting safety procedures with help of national gov. oversight agency and blaming all on pilots and airspace.
Hiding reports from public, not implementing any safety recommendations (including those made by international organizations), honing unbelievable unprofessionalism in management, among staff while telling old story about unforgiving terrain.
Nobody in Nepal believes in that excuse anymore..
I had to smile a little to myself in Australian when you posed your question to the audience about airline safety record, while showing footage of Qantas aircraft. If there is one thing Qantas isn't shy about telling their customers, is their history of never having a fatal crash. Given how old they are as an airline, I suspect this has more to do with dumb luck in those early decades than their modern safety standards.
They haven’t had a fatal _jet_ crash. They have had several fatal crashes, but none since the 1950s
Gravity works in opposite direction Down Under - as any fule no.
And the Kiwis came right after!
Quantas have also spent millions on planes to fix them so that they can say they never lost a plane to a crash. They spent more than the plane is worth in some cases.
@@offshoretomorrow3346 “This is your captane, Fotherington-Tomas. Hello clouds! Hello sky!”
The "3 Minutes of Aviation" guy and Lucaas been paying their rent for years thanks to Aerosucre 😂
They always deliver... Material for UA-cam
Yeah 😖😖
😂😂😂
@@MentourPilot😂😂😂😂
Yes - unfortunately.
Was going to post this but decided to check comments first. 3 min of aviation seems to have Aerosucre featured every 2nd or 3rd episode. Usually captioned something like "overloaded plane struggles to climb" or "Overloaded plane barely gets airborne in time".
Well, that tree and guard post weren't in compliance with the 2 degree slope rule. The pilots finally decided to do something about it.
Hahahaha
I am Colombian and live in Barranquilla, the birthplace of Aerosucre, and this video basically describes 99% of everything that happens in Colombia. It's like a perfect cultural cocktail of stupidity, incompetence, corruption, and carelessness. Standards here are so low it's kind of a miracle that anything functions at all.
Не расстраивайся, это не только в Колумбии !
@@ВадимШемякин-э6й 😂
Here in Canada, we've erred in the other direction. Our bureaucrats have a reign of a million bylaws to kill all fun and delay all work. Case in point: in BC, regular pubs & bars are not allowed to let patrons dance to live music. You need a special 'cabaret' bar license for that. Imagine telling someone from Colombia, "dancing not allowed'!
@@markus717 🤣 Good luck with that! An important ingredient of successful societies is balance.
@@markus717 Add years of civil war, drug production a main source of income for many, and the idea that it doesn't matter if we cross the law, as long as bribes were paid, and you get the difference between corruption in Canada and in Columbia. The tragedy is, Laws of Nature can't be bribed even by airine owners.
About time I see the Aviation UA-camr GOAT cover this madhouse of a cargo carrier. Gonna be a good watch with coffee.
Colombian coffee I hope, you know for the experience enhancement.
@@Fluffy-Fluffy better than some other famous colombian product.
@@conny.rapp.tattooyeah, I see what you mean 🤫🫣🤨
I am a sucre for these videos.
😂😂
Sweet.
Its Aerosucre, thats what went wrong
Random fact. Sucre is actually a french word. It means sugar.
Exactly!
@@vintagetriplex3728
The planes dissolve in the clouds
@@vintagetriplex3728 Probably because AeroAzucar doesn't roll off the tongue as smoothly.
But Perplexity AI says it's named after a currency Sucre which was in use in Latin America, not the word for sugar directly.
Agreed that small mistakes in isolation don’t seem like much, but things escalate quickly when they start compounding
Indeed.
The thing is, I don't really forgive the pilots for their lax attitude. There is this thing that isn't always fashionable these days called "Personal integrity". These pilots, before they even got out of 2 seat trainers, would have HAD to know the importance of weight and balance, runway length, etc. I understand peer pressure and all that, but still.
Indeed, exactly.
Honestly I always say something like "Integrity is nice in a pilot but I can live without it. I'm not so sure I can live if the pilot has no risk assessment. So If I have to pick one or the other I'd take the pilot who likes being alive and will do all in their power to keep it that way."
Your personal integrity would likely crumble like a cookie if you were in the same life situation as these pilots.
@@PRH123 An Airline who´s unable to provide minimum safety standards, including properly trained pilots, should be shutted down by the regulator - for the sake of human lifes.
They still do this btw. Losing planes is just built into their economic model.
I'm trying to focus my mind on what it is to be an Aerosucre flight crew and knowing that I have to be 100% correct on my every decision because there are likely no margins of safety at all and certainly no corporate backup to ensure safety.
@@benrussell-gough1201 If you apply for Aerosucre, you probably aren't placing much value on your life anyway.
@@benrussell-gough1201 you do this and your family is well treated or you don't do it and be homeless. Pick one. Capitalism without safety nets.
@thewhitefalcon8539
Capitalism by definition has no safety net (for the poor. The rich has TOOOOOOONS of safety nets)
Safety nets in a capitalistic society is just socialist policies implemented by the government.
As a COLOMBIAN, we DO NOT claim Aerosucre or "casi Me choco" = "I almost crash airlines".....
It's not all bad here in Colombia guys... yes we have Aerosucre... but also, Avianca, our flag carrier, second oldest airline in the world, founded on the same year as KLM.
And Avianca's last fatal accident was Avianca 52 in 1990. They haven't lost a plane in 34 years
Avianca is top notch in terms of safety
I’ve flown on avianca and I would never again. I was miserable for every min of the flight. I got there safe tho.
@@Fifthelement203 So far the only airlines I have been on are Korean, Asiana, Jeju, Westjet, and Air Canada
@@Fifthelement203your talking about a lot of airlines today. Westjet, air Canada, even American sometimes
Avianca had several near misses and crashes. And as everything in that country, it sucks as service and punctuality.
Copa is way better.
Colombian airlines are a bad punchline in a terrible joke.
Honestly. I love how detailed you go into exactly what happened. Don’t get quality like this anywhere else. 💯
They blew through the swiss cheese with an RPG, then followed up with a few shotgun blasts.
Hilarious 😂
They blew through the swiss cheese with a overweight 727!
Aerosucre: Inspecting your localizer array on every flight.
Kennedy Steve ATC: "That airbus 380 was smart enough to fly itself in here but the crew cant figure out how to pull it into the ramp"
Yes, indeed😅 - but a 727 isn´t able to do it similarly when it is overloaded and on a too short runway.
Hey, it was an Airbus. They've been building all the smarts they could into the aircraft since at least the first A320. Imagine envelope protection, bank angle protection, etc.
And yes, there was a crash on an early demo flight with the A320 after they had flown a low pass and the plane refused to pull up because they were too slow.
Aerosucre is a Colombian cargo carrier with criminal behavior and suicidal crews that can still risk the innocent peoples life thanks to the mediocrity or corruption of the government authorities. As simple as that. If they continue flying the possibilities of a tragedy taking of over a city is huge.
And how do you know this?
@@donaldwinsor5791 I don´'t have a cristal ball, but last 11 of novembre one of their 727s destroyed the ILS antenna of SKBO taking off at the last second and struggling to fly over a 8 millon habitants city to land again with the airplane seriously damaged. .... Aerosucre did it again fortunately withot killing people.
10:18 early hunch: those charts were not used 😂
Guess and go.
Which shows accurate charts are important for any performance (80/20 regular) 😊
Hmm.. the context of the country being in civil was and poor infrastructure and Aerosucre basucally providing a vital service despite its poor standards (in our eyes) is quite an eye-opener. We laugh at them, but if the real truth is not as much "corporate greed" but "it's this or hunger/poverty for hundreds of people", then it's different.
Reminds me of a story from one of the post-communist countries - a state inspection closed down a primary school because of some bureaucratic hygiene-related reason (like, they did not have the proper amount of toilets for the number of pupils as required by the norms, or something like that)...
However, for most of the kids (it was in one of the poorest regions of the country) the school had been THE place where they did their only proper hygiene... (like, the school had running water, they brushed their teeth there in the morning... the school had some soap in there as well which they used... while at homes they had maybe an outhouse and a bathing in a lake/river or something).
So this caused quite an outrage against the bureaucrats.
So yeah, while adhering to standards and regulations is definitely better than not doing so, we need to consider the people and regions who may be thankful to have at least some service, be it a substandar school building, or substandard airline operator...
We often laugh at Aerosucre. Perhaps we should pity them (the pilots and the people there) instead.
Could be. However, if it is true, as others here claim, that Aerosucre's owner used bribes and political connections to keep the airline flying, then they are making money off of it, likely a lot of money. So their motivations may not be quite as noble.
Still, if they provide a vital service no "serious" airline can or will provide, then just shutting them down is not a great option either...
You are right. But, as a colombian, I can assure you that corporate greed and corruption are at least 50% of the problem here
Colombian here, too. It is true that the colombian aviation industry was born due to necessity and lack of basic infrastructure. That is the reason why Avianca is the second oldest airline in the world: basic necessity. However, this is not just a simple civil war of State vs some group. It has been an incredibly complex network of actors with their economic, political and personal interests which has crept up through illegal economy and official political spheres. The owners of Aerosucre are far from innocent, as they, too, have seeked profit from the regulatory and general chaos.
I reckon the reason Aerosucre is still up is because they do still provide a basic service no other airline has taken up, and I am not sure anyone will do it anytime soon.
@@LillaIgelkotten Yes, I did not mean to imply that the owners of Aerosucre are angels doing it from the pure goodness of his heart. I don't know anything about them, and I suppose that some level of corruption and greed is there (as other commenters have mentioned about the bribes etc...).
I was partially talking about the pilots (like, we make fun of them on the internet, but some of them might not be as careless (and part-of the greed-machine) as we think; they may simply be trying their best in the conditions they have, maybe they are praying too before each flight, knowing that they are pushing the limits of the swiss cheese...).
And partially about the authorities, who may be more reluctant to shut the airline down, if they know that it would create more problems for the people who rely on the transport services...
Yes, I mentioned that it might not be that much "corporate greed", perhaps I could have explained it better. But you know, when you learn new information and are still processing it, the thought evolves as it goes along... (and I typed that whole paragraph on my phone, so I did not see it in its entirety when I finished, lol :D)
I live in Southern Illinois and know of people who don't have operable running water. One family has an outhouse.
Petr, I always appreciate the human empathy you bring to your analysis, particularly regarding the humans involved. Thank you.
Yes! Petr really does this all the time....such an awesome human being...
Is Petter
@@Docstantinople Thank you.
Another Mentour Pilot video! I’ve rewatched so many episodes this past week, this was first in my feed this morning! Thanks Petter and team!
Glad you enjoyed it! And I’m so happy to have you here, supporting the channel With your views
I hope you enjoyed it!
@@MentourPilotIt was absolutely fantastic!
It’s a shame there was a loss of life… but at least the mechanic made it! Cautionary tale indeed…
Thanks so much for the analysis and all the effort you and your team put into your content! Your guys produce some of the highest quality educational and entertaining content on the platform and I am so grateful to be able to enjoy it!
The fact that I check ATIS while taking off or landing in DCS (and have zero formal flight training) and they didn’t is absolutely mind blowing.
You know you are doing something wrong when every plane spotter is watching you because of the frequent close calls.
8:32 "at which point, Aerosucre bought it and reregistered it in Colombia, possibly to replace one of the company's other 727s that had crashed a year earlier"
This line made me laugh out loud. It's part of the natural lifecycle of every airliner: a long service life followed by being bought by Aerosucre and then crashed.
This one starts with a 'Yikes!' and gets 'Yikes-ier' by the second. Also, I've checked 'plane spotting' off my list of things to do when bored. As an aside, every one of your videos inspires me to take better care of even the most mundane daily activities, and I am grateful.
Plane spotting can be a safe hobby, it just depends on where you stand. Standing on the extended centerline (or close to it) feels cool but the pictures are mostly shit. Standing a few hundred meters abeam the touchdown zone is much better. Doing this in most western countries is about as close to 100% safe as it gets. Any trip on a road is worse.
My personal favorite: Aerosucre. If anyone ever tells me that I’m the “Aerosucre” of my profession then I’m retiring
If you're the “Aerosucre” of your profession, take out a life insurance policy.
The thought of airlines pilots losing situational awareness and causing a deadly crash scares the heck out of me.
Just last summer, me and my wife was on a voletea flight from paris orly to lourde tarbe. It was an a320.
The flight was supposed to be 57 minutes but we were stuck in a holding pattern for an hour and 30 minutes on arrival.
Afterwards the pilots tried to land but all of the sudden they yanked the nose all the way up. We were going on a steep climb and we were pinned to our seats. I could not move my body.
And he would pull the nose down and and up again with the engine at full thrust.
I thought we were gonna end up crashing like fly dubai 981.
But luckily the pilot landed on the second approach attempt. But it was nerve racking.
My wife later Joked that our flight almost became another mentour pilot episode. Lol.
I flew a Malaysian Air Services flight from Penang to Kuala Lumpur in 1982 when passengers were sitting on the floor because it was overbooked.
I just can't believe the mechanic even survived. That's crazy(fortunate)!!
And you thought Spirit Airlines was bad. The worst you have on (every) Spirit flight is a gladiator match in the passenger area.
Maam Spirit is bad
@@sharinaross1865iv flown spirit several times from lga to mco and back. Never had a problem only small seats but im skinny anyway
How is this a valid comparison???
LOL 😂
Believe me, there is absolutely no comparison. Spirit is 100 times better.
I am actually surprised that any / all 727's were / are in operation anywhere... The last time I flew on the 727 was "CON-AIR" in 99'. We actually entered the rear stairs due to the obvious considerations... No air stairs on the tarmac.. Just US Marshals with shotguns and M4's, and a bunch of unhappy passengers.. I have a tiny bit of an affinity for the 727.. NOT what I'd want to fly today.. I just thought the last of the 27's were in use to ferry prisoners... D.B. Cooper likely would have been disappointed... Always great coverage, Mentour Pilot!
You made my day with a new video today 🥳
My Day to
Check out Pilot Debrief now; there’s a new video out.
Mentor Pilot - BIG planes.
Pilot Debrief - small planes.
for the editor (the video one): GOOD JOB!!! Not only for this video, all of them, nobody says anything about the editor, I felt that is needed to say that is good about what is happening on the editing part.The music, the recordings from the whatever simulator, the timings, everything, good. Just works.HUUUGE LIKE
I have engineering friends working in Aerosucre today, and something that we used to joke about the copmany, before they entered there, was that they would lose all their fleet in crashes rather than age or airworthiness.
Now they're adamant that the company has change substantially and that they avoid committing those mistakes ... and the fact that they invested on newer aircraft and that my friends are working their asses off in maintenance, to me it's saying something.
I hope the best for your friends.
As long as they work on the ground and not in the air, I guess they'll be safe 😅
Jokes aside, I hope the company really has turned around, and I commend your friends for doing their part to make sure it stays that way!
🫶🏼
@@MrNicoJac Hopefully, yes, indeed. All the best wishes from me.
No one could ever have said "maintenance employees are working their a§§es off" before, so that's definitely proof it's safe now
I have to wonder if they DID calculate out the correct speeds. As pointed out the V1 was likely supposed to be 122. They Captain was calling out 23 (very close) and the FO corrected him to 127 (25 degree card settings). It think it was at this point the last chance to avoid an issue was passed, as the captain should have confirmed "127? I thought we had determined 123 for flaps 30 at our weight". But he took the 127 as religiously and .. presto.
We should have a Normalization of deviance BINGO card for this stuff 🙂
Aerosucre is the defacto drug mule of the skies. 😂😂😂
And your local postage service provides all the logistics needed to get anything you want without leaving your house... it's a new world and humans will always adapt to the environment to get what they need.
I know a guy well who used to work for the Australian Federal Police and then Interpol and now he's an academic who studies the supply chains of illicit products. He said to me once, "trying to stop the flow with force, is like trying to empty a river with a soup ladle and a bucket. That's how much gets stopped from getting where it's going to go."
Dealing with the issues that cause the demand, will always be a better investment than punishing those who take advantage of opportunities to meet the demands.
Food for thought.
But that almost never happens, government agencies refuse to tackle the problems at their root cause. Or maybe a lot of good people are working there, but they're understaffed, their budgets get constantly cut and nobody really values their hard work. So even the really dedicated ones burn out fast. And the criminals called "politicians" often are entangled in the world of organised crime. A vicious circle.
That was pretty obvious as soon as he mentioned several hundred kilos of cargo that wasn't on the manifest for some strange reason.
@@RobertBDC And a person who was along in the cargo area to watch it - just in case... lol.
@@C.Fecteau-AU-MJ13 the problem is that not all the sources of demand are "solvable". Sure lots of demand is a symptom of addiction, depression, poverty, poor education etc which can all be alleviated by government action (at least in theory), but some demand is just people with enough money who know the health implications and on balance still want the feeling the stuff provides.
I don't see how a government can remove that source of demand, other than by applying an additional down side to the equation (legal consequences if caught).
Any approach to stopping the illegal drug trade that does not involve using force has to include an element of legalisation, or else the illegal drug trade will continue.
And we've seen over decades of trying that force doesn't seem to be able to stop it either. Or at least not the level of force that our society is willing to sanction. It may reduce the trade somewhat, but there are always people willing to take the risk for great rewards, and you can't catch them all.
What I'm writing here I swear is totally true, tat day I was giving training to a new worker, in a coffee break I scroll down the news and said "an Airplane has just crashed" she was immediately alarmed and said where? I figured she was worried about someone flying right in that moment so to calm her up I said, "no worries, it is in Puerto Carreño" as I knew that was somehow far, and she replied "my cousin is flying from Puerto Carreño" and bursted to tears, I didn't know how to calm her down so I read more and said: "no worries, just crew members died and then she told me" my cousin is the Copilot!!!!" screaming and sobbing even more, after auroud one hour she discovered her cousin was taken from that flight out and was safe, but man that was awkward.
LOL - I decided to look up "Aerosucre" on UA-cam. Wow. Just two days ago a 727, flight 372, struck the localizer at the end of a 2300 meter runway in Bogata. What are the chances? Good, apparently.
I mean it's Colombia, it's corrupt as hell so it's not really surprising me when I hear stuff like "carrying of undocumented passengers" and general lack of information on employees, the fact they're boarding personal connections is enough for me. It's sadly didn't surprise me to hear what happened to this flight and sadly I'm not convinced the next one will be far away. Really sad.
This is why oversight (enforcement) and a good safety culture are important. It is also why I would not be concerned about safety if I were to fly with Mentours (former?) employer: whenever I have delivered papers in the cockpit (including weight and balance that I calculated), there was always a professional attitude with high regard for safety. As it was for most airlines that I dealt with.
I have also dealt with airlines where I made a personal note that "neither myself nor anyone I know should ever fly with this airline as long as I can help it" because it seemed to me that their pilots lacked a good attitude to safety. Thankfully, I haven't heard about any serious incidents with these airlines, and the ones that worried me the most are no longer active.
so which airlines you would never fly?
@skawel1 Blue Air is one I would definitely never fly. I also won't get the chance, as they're no longer around.
Thank you Petter and team for always giving us these top quality presentstions 💞
Our pleasure!
While in recurrent training in the 727, a check airman gave me a very similar scenario, essentially replication the DC-10 Sioux City crash. Number three engine out and failed hydraulics. Sure enough the unthinkable happened, she started to roll over until, like a hand reaching through the darkness and cobwebs, the thought occurred to me to activate the standby rudder switch at which point control was reacquired and things got better in a hurry. Unlike this accident we were in a simulator, flaps 15 and the check airman had waited until the wheels were in the wells to start the drill. A couple of take aways. Airlines almost never train compound emergencies unless the crew makes them so. To prevent vengeful managers from attempting to overload an unpopular pilot and fire them, most unions have outlawed multiple simultaneous emergencies in training. Which makes it improbable that responses beyond the rote set of problems will take place. As alluded to, the use of the standby rudder is at the end of a long checklist intended for completely different circumstances. Unfortunately, most operators are not permitted to push the envelope and expand training beyond the approved norms. From personal experience, the unique challenge and overcoming the same was invigorating beyond belief. Like getting doused by a bucket of ice water.
Thank you for the video! And thanks for covering this madhouse of an airline. The culture of bypassing rules and regulations in Colombia is so ingrained (we're lovely!) that not a single thing in this video surprises me. Maybe the lowering the landing gear decision, that one was unexpected.
Which are the safest and most dangerous airlines?
All airlines are forced to comply with the same rules...
"Ah okay Aerosucre and Pakistain International Airlines......"
(Kind of a joke, definitely personal opinion)... It's not quite true that all airlines follow the same rules - it depends where they operate and also many airlines exceed the mandatory requirements.... (buy some that don't too....)
The story of the owner getting awards, lots of thigns not being checked - sounds like there was a considerable amount of bribery/corruption etc. going on, for a columbian cargo airline you can extrapolate why....
Aero flat probably unsafe too
@@dosmastrify from what i can tell, they're quite safe nowadays
Even if they did all comply with the same rules, there's a difference between an attitude of doing the bare minimum vs going above and beyond.
My brain won't let me stop seeing Aerosauce.
I won't be able to listen to Aeros... 🎶🎵🎸 anymore without thinking about sugar 😂
35:58 notice how they excluded the badly position military post
The plane took it out...
The Armed Forces are untouchable here, unfortunately. Their whims are the main reason why El Dorado isn't much bigger.
And here I thought Garuda was the worst airline! Garuda, you have not lived until you experience a 747 stretch make a hard landing causing the front to snap down hard and then entire plane bounce up like it's a Cessna with a trainee pilot, and then finally collect itself and make the roughest landing you have ever experienced. Kudos to 1999 Boeing, I thought the front landing gear would snap on that first hit. Also, thanks to a long runway at Jakarta, we sure needed it.
Garuda is still better than any Pakistani or godforbid Afghani carrier
Small comfort, but still
Completely agree Garuda was awful, with no other options ……..
@@MrNicoJac try Yeti Airlines!
I had a great experience on Garuda (Singapore to Surabaya). But then again, that was one flight
I am no way connected to Airline / aerospace industry. But I watch these two channels for the illustration of professionalism, problem solving and the complexities involved in what caused a crisis. This helps me improve my critical reasoning and be a better professional in solving issues in the industry I work at. Cheers!
Usually I have atleast a decent knowledge of an accident before the video, but with Aerosucre it can any of atleast a dozen incidents.
I have seen so many videos of their aircraft barely making it off the runway, that i wonder how they are still allowed to operate.
Cold hard cash in the regulator's hand or a horse's head in their bed via a narcotics cartel.
I guess the answer is "That cargo isn't going to fly itself and we NEED it moved"
We always knew how they got it wrong, it's Aerosucre.
Aerosucksre
Gorgeous animations. Amazing and kudos to the team making the videos.
Thank you, Mentour, for pronouncing "Colombia" correctly. Too many people disrespectfully say "Columbia".
I would say that all airlines are relatively safe if they are certified by a high-quality certification authority. If not, all bets are off.
That’s correct
I am 72 and still working as a software engineer. While there’s a world of difference between being a flight engineer, it does indicate that age is not necessarily an indicator of incapacity. Individuals should be evaluated on their individual skills and abilities.
I agree, but the regulations are in place becouse it is too aexensive and time consuming to examine everyone individually so the age cutoff is placed when the average person will experience notable effects from their age
I'm a retired engineer. I definitely was finding myself making mistakes at the end of my career that I wouldn't have made 20 years earlier.
I'm sure that, if you need it, you can take a couple of minutes to think about a problem without your office crashing to the ground
Software engineers generally don't have to operate under the same time constrainst flight crew has during an emergency
And if you drop dead at your desk you're not going to take anyone else with you.
🔊🗣️🗣️Aerosucre mentioned 🗣️🗣️🔊 what the hell is Safety?!?!
“At some point, safety is pure waste!” Stockton Rush
Props to Aersource for making sure Half of the NTSB have job
That's painful 😅
NTSB only operates in the US.
@@Dirk-van-den-Berg NTSB is gets involved in investigations when it involves any aircraft manufactured by a US company
@@Dirk-van-den-Berg ntsb gets involved in accidents with aircrafts that are made by a us based company
@@goldy_on_pc930 Thanks for the clarification.
This airlines still operates as recklessly as back then. Just today one of their planes hit an ILS tower in Bogotá’s airport during take off.
I I really liked this episode and think it was very important that you covered this terrifying story because this kind of behavior has to be shown to the world to put clear that by doing shortcuts and not following the rules you can skip having an accident but that doesnt mean it will never happen.
I also want to suggest you to cover an incident that happened back in 2003 when a DHL A300 cargo flight 209 suffered an attack from the ground been reached by a misile from terrorists and the crew managed to land the plane safelly with a very damaged wing and full loss of hydralics so they could only barelly control the aircraft with the engines. I think it was a true heroic act by the pilots, a good example of importance of the CRM and a masterpiece of aviator mind that had never been trained for such scenario. Hope you cover it some time. Thank you for the hard work you and your team put in the videos. They are all awesome and not only for aviation enthusiasts but for enyone else that wants to know the importance of how a safety culture and responsability at any kind of job makes a better and safer world.
Ha. Like I tell the kids not wearing safety gear. It's not a problem until it is, and now you don't have a finger or an eye.
Halo.
Please make a video about Polish flight
LO 5055 Warsaw - New York
IL-62M SP-LBG "Tadeusz Kościuszko"
Deadliest air disaster in Polish History.
Thank you
There was also interesting accident in a Katowice, when they hit multiple ILS antennas, but they didn't know that until they left the plane. Somewhere I have pdf with report from investigation, but it will be difficult for me to find it.
I'd love to see that as well
Would be great to see a video on that!
@@justvid366 MSFS is a crap. X-Plane maybe is not perfect, but it's more realistic. Anyway, there is a Tu-154 for an X-Plane.
@@justvid366 Ah, I see. Thanks
Impeccable video and explanation very professional and very informative in a very good pace ! Thanks!
Thank you too, glad you enjoyed it!
As a viewer, I really appreciate how you do not sensationalize your accident video's. A good case study in the phenomenon of the "normalization of deviation". One thing worth mentioning, is that a lack of rudder meant the flying pilot must use more aileron input to hold wings level. All jet transports, to my knowledge, use some of the spoilers in flight for roll control. In Boeings, this is only a few degrees. Any roll inputs beyond 5deg of roll will begin putting flight spoilers up on the high wing. The flight spoilers would have dramatically affected the stall speed of the left wing.
Well narrated incident and nicely done. Being a biomedical engineer, working on medical devices and implants, concept of design margin for safety and reliability, and the importance of working under regulated environments is part of my life. Tragedy and loss from cumulative stacking up of ignorance and non-adherence to rule and regulations, followed by lack of room for human error, sadly amounts of lots of such incidents in all sectors. Good take away and learning for all. People have to be self-informed and obey rules for the society to perform smoothly.
19 800 kgs of "local products going for export" were never found.
Thank you for not taking sponsors of better help.
Yeah sure. Whatever. Because trusting your security to some sketchy VPN company based on, essentially, the lie that your ISP "can read all your data", is so much better.
I don't blame creators for taking the money. Most don't know enough to know VPNs are 99% worthless, but everybody getting mad about Betterhelp and ignoring the scores of other sketchy advertising going on, drives me slightly mad.
I was disappointed in that. They're a good resource, and he let you bully him into that. Would have prefered him to stand his ground. It's not up to you who he chooses as a sponser, and I personally would have have rather seen him stand his ground, not give into bullies.
@@Julia-nl3gq I get where you're coming from, but I think it's important for creators to listen to their audience's concerns too. While BetterHelp can be helpful for some, there have been a lot of issues raised about their practices, and that’s why so many viewers were upset. Personally, I didn’t have the best experience with them either, so I can understand why people would feel strongly. In the end, it's his choice, but it's tough to stand by something the community feels conflicted about
cheers!
@@Julia-nl3gq You must not have anything in your background that requires in-depth therapy over a period of years. BetterHelp's standards aren't very good, their therapists are overscheduled, and their billing is more expensive than most local therapists as well as more difficult to get them to stop billing you once you've realized the therapists they hook you up with are generally below average. Not saying a below average therapist can't help someone who's struggling with something relatively common like the death of an aged parent or impostor syndrome, but BetterHelp could go through recommending 20 therapists for a client trying to recover from an eating disorder stemming from childhood trauma and abusive adult relationships and never find anyone good enough to help that client.
They're the equivalent of an urgent care, not a hospital that can cope with longer-term stays, and they're certainly not equipped for emotional wounds that are the equivalent of needing a trauma center's ER services.
Aerosucre is like the scariest flight you can take.😂😂😂😂😂😂
-Give me a ticket to Bogota.
-Ok. You have a flight in Aerosucre....
-Forget it. I walk.
-But you will cross the Darien Gap.
-I take the risk.
@@Miparwo "Wait. I know a guy whose uncle has an old Tiger Moth and sometimes leaves the keys in it. Maybe you can take that."
Considering it is not a passenger airline, how can you even take it??
@@chukwudiilozue9171 did you even watch the video? Their cargo flights have carried passengers
@@chukwudiilozue9171they pack you in a luggage box between boxes with alcohol and explosives.
I was living in Costa Rica in the mid-1980s. I remember one day I was driving on the motorway from Alajuela to San José, on a stretch that touches on the airport. There was an AeroSucre Caravelle in the tarmac that astonished me; so much as to recall the incident vividly four decades later. The Caravelle's front gear was up in the air and the tail part touching the ground. Later on I read in the newspaper that the cargo had become losen upon landing and when the aircraft stopped the weight made the plane to flip.
Halleluja
They just did it again. Another B 727-200F struck today (November 11th, 2024) the localizer antena at El Dorado Airport in Bogota at departure 300 metres behind the end of the 3800 metres long runway. In opposite to Aerosucre Flight 157 this aircraft (HK-5216) was able to make it back to the airport.
Yes, so much about improvement at Aerosuce.🤕
As a Swiss your constant negative connotations to our national cheese pains me 😥 otherwise an enjoyably informative documentary, thank you.
I love your cocoa (hot chocolate) and pocket knives. Your cheese, not so much.
If it's any consolation in this case there was very little actual cheese, just a lot of holes.
Well, if we're paying in Swiss Francs, we want actually cheese, not air pockets 😜😂
I agree with MrNicoJac. If you'd give us the entire cheese block without deceptive holes, well....maybe then......
Written off more than they've owned💀
If I ever need to dispose of an airplane and make it look like an accident, I know what airline I should call
@@olm8829 they don't even have to "make it look like" an accident
@@olm8829 right😂😂😂
No. Written off more than they own at any one time.
@@TommyWylie you just said the same thing I said😂
Apart of everyone making a lot of fun about the reliable stream of (luckily mostly benign) Aerosucre mishaps constantly filling YT plane-related videos - it's both pathetic and tragic that they serve such an important role with such an attitude of negligence.
It seems to me that it's cause and effect. They're irreplaceable so they can fail to comply with whatever and they'll still operate. If they're constantly overweight, the need for moving cargo is actually bigger than what they can provide.
@@CieloNotturno86 Indeed.
I live in Bogotá, somewhat near the departure path of SKBO. Every day, I know it's time to go to sleep because an Aerosucre 727 takes off around 11 p.m., making a lot of noise. I have complained to Aerocivil because the noise from the airplane is so loud that it sets off car alarms. But as of today, I still have this 11 p.m. alarm.
2:23 seconds! OMG - no wonder they were having trouble concentrating and they didn’t realize the damage. Yes, mistakes were made, and they should have been calm, but it was too much in too little time, because they had less than 2:23 when everything happened. The planners of the airport also have take a lot of the blame!! Those poor guys.
I was really able to follow what was going on - you are amazing. Thank you much :) 🌷🌱
18:40 speaking from experience peter?😅😂
My first thought too! 😂😂
Flight engineer inconveniently quiet during this. In a three crew aircraft, isn’t their job to worry about the hydraulics and missing appendages, and merely advise the flight crew on what they can and cannot do any more? As you said, there was a rudder standby system, front and centre. This man had one job.
Apparently at AeroSucre, CRM means “Can’t rationalize movements”.
Indeed. - It would have been really interesting to know what his previous job/s was/ were.
I'm more shocked the captain didn't rotate properly....
At least that was an action he'd done on every single flight before, instead of a pensioner finding that one crucial button that he probably had never needed in his entire career.
@@MrNicoJacif u watch aerosure take offs on UA-cam, you will see that usually they do take off at a low angle then raise gear and fly straight for a while, basically using ground effect to get airborne, then they climb.
This is probably due to unrecorded overloading of the aircraft
@@LongdownConker Good point! - Thank you very much. I had questioned this to myself, too. Probably this specific Captain hadn´t realized that he had already eaten up his safety margins and had no space left over for his usual way of take-off with overload.
@@LongdownConkergiven freight is billed by both weight and volume, either there have to be two sets of bills (like the two logbooks we all used to run), or they’ve really been shorted on shipping costs.
Usually billing would have the correct bills, and the crew would have the wrong bills, so they can depart legally.
When an airline's problem is so infamous that it has a kind of "meme status" on the internet, you know it's bad (but of course, they'll keep doing it and downplaying it for as long as possible to maximise profit). For Ryanair, it's how they come down too hard; for Aerosucre, it's how they go up too soft.
The failure of the safety culture in an organization is the normalization of risks…until an incident happens. Very well concluded. Great video. Thank you.
Excellent point about small policies and procedures being ignored is a sign of big problems to come. I work for a new local company that is buying back a dairy plant from a national company. Some of our employees used to be employees of the plant before the big company bought it and during the early years of the big company owning it, but they've been away working for other companies for several years now. They say the culture and procedures we're seeing now in the plant are very lax compared to what used to be, and sure enough, the plant's current owners are rooting out the cause of a quality issue with one of the products that has to be due to an in-plant process.
It's a relief that it's only a cargo airline.
Great video, as always! :3
Tl;Dr: Thanks for explaining why being "knit-picky" in aviation is important! :)
The explanation from 12:33 ff. about the safety margins in *every* part of the operation was especially enlightening! Technically there wasn't anything new being said compared to past videos, but in the past I've been thinking "wait, isn't this criticism a little knit-picky?" about several points you raised which appeared small to me. I NOW understand that this alertness towards even the minutest of errors is part of the safety precautions which make aviation so statistically safe. (...I suppose statistics is really the best way to see it: Undertaking a gigantic effort to lower the incident probability to LITERALY ZERO!)
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Got premium but nice bro
Petter - as always - both excellent explanations and excellent conclusions !!! Especially the conclusion at the very end on "safety culture" is a very good one ! Although I'm not in the airline industry this applies to any domain dealing with safety for sure ! In any case this is more vital for aeronautics than it is for other non-3D domains.